Clinical grades

[cmnsnse]

Does anyone else think that the school is only hurting their residency reputation (our opportunities) by calculating 55% of our clinical grades from written exams? It seems that we are competing with other's for residency positions who's grades are going to mainly reflect their clinical performance. Is it true that residency directors look at numbers to select people for positions not how the numbers are calculated?

[jonasp]

I don't like it either, but grading is so subjective anyway; most residency programs know that. Do well on the steps and try to get good letters of recommendations thats all that matters.Our clinical grading system is more demanding than any caribbean school. It can only look good for the school in the long run.Don't worry too much about getting a high pass instead of honors because of it. No one really cares.

[ALB123]

I hate the system. I do think the quizes/midterms/shelfs are appropriate for our institution to have (other american schools have shelfs and sometimes midterms depending on rotation).

A few points that I disagree with in the grading system:
1) 55% is way too high a percentage, 30% might be more acceptable.
2) The point of these "tasks" are learning. If I am not mistaken we cannot even view our midterm answers to learn from. We just get a grade and that's that.
3) I don't know the source of the questions, but a lot of the time they are just too difficult.. Attendings even have problems with some of them. I think the school should maybe look into a different source for their questions.
4) Quizes, logs, midterms.. It's just too much, we need to cut back on something.. If I am at the hospital from 6 - 6 how am I supposed to have the energy and mental power to finish my quizes and logs on time?

If I could recommend cutting out something it would be the quizes or midterms, they are just ridiculous and have brought down my grade in every rotation. If the system was somewhat fair, you would imagine the quizes/midterms dont ALWAYS bring down your overall score, rather sometimes bring it up. Or maybe my clinical knowledge isn't up to par.

either way, it just a big pain in the butt.. oh well.

[cmnsnse]

How can it look good for the school if their students are getting lower grades during their clinical rotations then other schools? I can get a 95 from my preceptor so can the person next to me however any score <95% on my mid term and final and on paper that person next to me in the rotation just preformed better then me when in actuality we preformed the same during the rotation.

[M.E the MD]

I think its plain stupid. We're doing super long hours in the hospital, then by the time I get home, take a shower, do my stupid logs, then do at least one quiz question that takes me an hour to find the answer since it is written in a ridiculous format.....no time left over to study oh I dont know.....MEDICINE! I dont know where they get these people who write our quizzes. Compared to the other carribean schools, they dont have to do this silly non sense and busy work. They go home and get to study what they saw that day.

[Baditude]

I think it harms us in the long run as many US and other carib med schools base clinical grades on just clinical performance ie: the clinical evaluation. I am simply confused with the weekly questions because I have gone as far as to look up every single question even when I knew the answer and I still get the questions wrong. I understand the deal with the logs for accreditation purposes but our are crazy compared to other schools. Oh well I guess beggars can't be choosers.

[JTP73]

I think its plain stupid. We're doing super long hours in the hospital, then by the time I get home, take a shower, do my stupid logs, then do at least one quiz question that takes me an hour to find the answer since it is written in a ridiculous format.....no time left over to study oh I dont know.....MEDICINE! I dont know where they get these people who write our quizzes. Compared to the other carribean schools, they dont have to do this silly non sense and busy work. They go home and get to study what they saw that day.or to search for loans and fill out millions of elective apps!

[JTP73]

I think it harms us in the long run as many US and other carib med schools base clinical grades on just clinical performance ie: the clinical evaluation. I am simply confused with the weekly questions because I have gone as far as to look up every single question even when I knew the answer and I still get the questions wrong. I understand the deal with the logs for accreditation purposes but our are crazy compared to other schools. Oh well I guess beggars can't be choosers.the mid-terms and quizzes are ridiculous--the worst one, by far, being Internal Medicine. Allegedly, the guy who writes these is a codger up in Baltimore with no life, and he purposely searches for new info. Questions/answers are always ambiguous. It should be simple: eval=70, shelf=20, logs=10 for every rotation. And the only reason for logs is to have documentation that you saw so many things. If it were possible, you would just have so many things to see and do and enter them into a tracking system to show competence/experience. All good points on this post -- only problem is, this is the least of our worries now with an admin like it is, no real loans, and numerous states dropping us.

[jrok]

I think that you should petition if you really want it changed. Go to the admin and show them a document of possibly grievances about the new policy and back it up with other students who feel the same way; maybe you can spark a change.

[rynobuddy]

Right you are about the IM quizzes and midterm. The writer is an endocrinologist in Baltimore who thrives on new and up to date research (not a bad thing), but then incorporates the new data into quizzes and mid term questions that are not really indicative of the types of questions we are going to see on Step 2. In 5-10 years this new research data may be formulated into questions, but while good to know, is not very helpful with respect to Step 2. We need to see some sort of Step type questions, mixed in with his questions on the latest research. But I do not think this is ever going to occur because he is a stubborn man, who is set in his ways, and does not like to be told he is wrong.

[jhoff6017]

I agree that this system needs to change for all the above reasons. This is not a issue of students being lazy. Having taken multiple midterms I can tell you that none of them are fair and all have very poorly worded question stems with even worse answer choices. I have had senior residents and attendings review my weekly quiz answers and in the majority of cases they agreed with my answer selection.
The fact that it counts for such a huge part of our grade is what should set every one of us off. I'm not one to rock the boat too hard but this is not helping anyone for step II or helping us to secure a cometetive residency.
When applying for a resdency in lets say Internal medicine, it would be helpful to have a Honors in that core. If you received Honors from your preceptor, but got a High Pass because of some bogus test your school mis-weighted, then all the program director sees is your High Pass on your transcript. When comparing you to other applicants, you look like the lesser applicant. None of the other school have anything like this, so I know that it is not for accreditation purposes. What can we do to change this nonsense policy?

[azulpanther]

I agree that this system needs to change for all the above reasons. This is not a issue of students being lazy. Having taken multiple midterms I can tell you that none of them are fair and all have very poorly worded question stems with even worse answer choices. I have had senior residents and attendings review my weekly quiz answers and in the majority of cases they agreed with my answer selection.
The fact that it counts for such a huge part of our grade is what should set every one of us off. I'm not one to rock the boat too hard but this is not helping anyone for step II or helping us to secure a cometetive residency.
When applying for a resdency in lets say Internal medicine, it would be helpful to have a Honors in that core. If you received Honors from your preceptor, but got a High Pass because of some bogus test your school mis-weighted, then all the program director sees is your High Pass on your transcript. When comparing you to other applicants, you look like the lesser applicant. None of the other school have anything like this, so I know that it is not for accreditation purposes. What can we do to change this nonsense policy?


Speak to the academic dean of clinicals

[mdr72]

I went over a couple of the questions with the Dr I am rotating with and he said they were awful.... that they are a waste of time.
he told me to not even waste time on the quiz questions--- submit them and move on. he said use the timet o study fo step instead

2 people i rotate with have to do NOTHING but study for step 2 and show up at the rotation--- not fair in my opinion

[azulpanther]

Best thing to do would be to share your concerns with Dean R. Whats the SGA of clinicals doing? This would be an excellent issue to take on. I'm all for quizzes if they help the student. But too many knowledgeable people have said that the quizzes and midterms are written so poorly.

[Godschosenone]

We brought up all these issues to the deans when
they came to visit us in the UK.
They said they would look at it, but you know how that goes

[jonasp]

I think its good that our school wants to raise the standards. No other caribbean school comes close to the demands of our clinical coursework. It can only look good for the school; however that being said at the same time it is in need of modification.The questions either need to be restructured to be less obscure or the overall weight of these quizzes and midterm need to be reduced.When residents and attendings are arguing over correct answers something isnt right. I don't mind the extra work but i dont want to be punished for no reason.I dont think it matters in the end but i can understand how people are upset getting a high pass/pass when they get honors on their evaluations. This issue is worth discussing with the clinical dean.

[azulpanther]

I think its good that our school wants to raise the standards. No other caribbean school comes close to the demands of our clinical coursework. It can only look good for the school; however that being said at the same time it is in need of modification.The questions either need to be restructured to be less obscure or the overall weight of these quizzes and midterm need to be reduced.When residents and attendings are arguing over correct answers something isnt right. I don't mind the extra work but i dont want to be punished for no reason.I dont think it matters in the end but i can understand how people are upset getting a high pass/pass when they get honors on their evaluations. This issue is worth discussing with the clinical dean.


I absolute agree with you. We want quizzes, but quizzes that will help us.