Your thoughts on Non-ACGME electives

[Future MD | DM erutuF]

I have an elective coming up soon but I am contemplating dropping it due to potential licensure issues in the future. At the same time, with the rate that clinical assignments for cores are turning out, it is very doubtful that I can take Step 2 by next year this date (and I took Step 1 in June). This will further delay any chance for proper teaching electives as most sites require a minimum time period for applying for those electives (and also generally require competency by passing Step 2 CK/CS).

By now I am resigned to the fact that 2010 match will be impossible. But now I fear just barely making 2011 match due to year-long waits for ACGME-approved electives.

However, since there are already so many states that SMU grads are not allowed to practice in, I'd rather not limit the amount further by non-ACGME electives being on my transcript.

So I pose this question to all of you, do you feel potential licensure issues are more important than giving up a year, quite possibly 2, for the match?

[Sree Cheruku]

So I pose this question to all of you, do you feel potential licensure issues are more important than giving up a year, quite possibly 2, for the match?

I don't think potential licensure issues are more important. Absolute worst case scenario, you decide you want to work in PA/TX/NV after you graduate - you waste 2 months of you life going back to your medical school and doing some Greenbook electives, vs. wasting 2 years now. Is the wait time really that long?

Or do what I did - convince yourself that you're not going to work in those states, and stop worrying about it.

[Future MD | DM erutuF]

So I pose this question to all of you, do you feel potential licensure issues are more important than giving up a year, quite possibly 2, for the match?

I don't think potential licensure issues are more important. Absolute worst case scenario, you decide you want to work in PA/TX/NV after you graduate - you waste 2 months of you life going back to your medical school and doing some Greenbook electives, vs. wasting 2 years now. Is the wait time really that long?

Or do what I did - convince yourself that you're not going to work in those states, and stop worrying about it.

So you're saying that a non-ACGME elective can be replaced by an ACGME elective later on? I was under the impression that even one non-Greenbook elective would disqualify for licensure in those states.

[Sree Cheruku]

I've never heard of anyone actually going back to medical school to fulfill a licensure requirement, but theoretically it could work. You have to check with individual medical boards to be certain.

[ace101]

I was in this same situation. i dropped my non-green elective recently because I keep hearing NJ requires all green electives for licensure. You never know what the medical board might change in the future. Also, I don't think the school I am going to (SMU) will let me do extra electives to make up for my non-green electives. Lastly, greenbook electives are not that far out of reach if you apply early. I am already about to be approved for two and another one maybe sometime later. I cannot stand constantly stressing over licencing issues so from now on I am decided to only do green rotations.

[AmericanIMG]

you can't do more electives after you're done. period.

[Future MD | DM erutuF]

I was in this same situation. i dropped my non-green elective recently because I keep hearing NJ requires all green electives for licensure. You never know what the medical board might change in the future. Also, I don't think the school I am going to (SMU) will let me do extra electives to make up for my non-green electives. Lastly, greenbook electives are not that far out of reach if you apply early. I am already about to be approved for two and another one maybe sometime later. I cannot stand constantly stressing over licencing
issues so from now on I am decided to only do green rotations.

I'm sure the school won't mind the extra money if I do decided to replace a non-green elective with a green one. But I'm not sure if the school or the licensure bodies will accept it either.

This is a pain.

[smu05]

just a suggestion, lemme know if i am incorrect. I don't know much about state licensure.

If you're really want to practice and settle in NJ and suppose you can't do green electives later on. How about you practice in NY, Virginia or Connecticut for 2-3 years and then apply for licensure in NJ. I am sure they will give you a license after knowing that you practiced in either of these 3 states for 3 years without any lawsuits/sue. The only reason why they want to see green cores & electives is to see if you've got the right training. If you have practiced for 3 years preceeding 3 years of residency without any court issues, then i am sure they'll issue you a license with no problems (at least that's my understanding).

[ace101]

Right now everything seems to be speculation. I am not sure where SMU stands on letting us extra electives. I am not sure that I can do residency in NY and automatically assume that NJ will license me. Each state board has their own specific rules and their may not be loop holes I can jump through. I am getting tired of calling medical boards and getting different answers from each person I talk to. I just want to play it safe, So I have decided to only do green rotations from now on. Medical boards in the future may change their rules, they may not.

[WSUCougar]

Right now everything seems to be speculation. I am not sure where SMU stands on letting us extra electives. I am not sure that I can do residency in NY and automatically assume that NJ will license me. Each state board has their own specific rules and their may not be loop holes I can jump through. I am getting tired of calling medical boards and getting different answers from each person I talk to. I just want to play it safe, So I have decided to only do green rotations from now on. Medical boards in the future may change their rules, they may not.

Strong Move ace101

Just be safe with everything and do all GREEN .....IF.... you can. There are a lot of people who talk about "Loop Holes" into finally being able to practice somewhere. My advice.... Don't bother even entertaining these ideas

I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I'm sure once I practice for 3 yrs, THEN I'll be able to become Licensed in Indiana, or California". Why would people assume this nonsense. Just stick to the basics and go with that.

Assuming Loop Holes in regards to your permanent licensure as an MD....... is a VERY Risky idea to assume.

[Future MD | DM erutuF]

Right now everything seems to be speculation. I am not sure where SMU stands on letting us extra electives. I am not sure that I can do residency in NY and automatically assume that NJ will license me. Each state board has their own specific rules and their may not be loop holes I can jump through. I am getting tired of calling medical boards and getting different answers from each person I talk to. I just want to play it safe, So I have decided to only do green rotations from now on. Medical boards in the future may change their rules, they may not.

I think I will be dropping this rotation as well. I just do not want to limit the amount of places I can practice any further. You never know what good job opportunites may exist in the future. Illinois' rules for licensure are supposed to be up for review by December of this year, so what you stated about medical boards changing their rules rings very true.

[shawnm3]

I have never seen a site require step 2 cs or ck for electives, although some may exist. It is, however, a challenge to secure quality elective due to our unpredictable schedule as well as the Caribbean stigma. I dont know about ACGME electives, thus far I have done all as such, but its hard to say how much it will matter in the end. There are already a TON of programs not interested in us due to our school, and this is with great step scores. I wouldnt waste too much extra time green electives will slow you down, however, you have nothing to loose if you can easily do all green.

I have an elective coming up soon but I am contemplating dropping it due to potential licensure issues in the future. At the same time, with the rate that clinical assignments for cores are turning out, it is very doubtful that I can take Step 2 by next year this date (and I took Step 1 in June). This will further delay any chance for proper teaching electives as most sites require a minimum time period for applying for those electives (and also generally require competency by passing Step 2 CK/CS).

By now I am resigned to the fact that 2010 match will be impossible. But now I fear just barely making 2011 match due to year-long waits for ACGME-approved electives.

However, since there are already so many states that SMU grads are not allowed to practice in, I'd rather not limit the amount further by non-ACGME electives being on my transcript.

So I pose this question to all of you, do you feel potential licensure issues are more important than giving up a year, quite possibly 2, for the match?

[eskimo2008]

If anyone has the option of doing all green rotations... then by all means you should do so. Even if that means slowing down a little bit. It will be worth the trouble in the long run. No doubts about that one...!

[jhoff6017]

I am from PA and the laws in my state have changed. Basically if you are ECFMG certified and your school is willing to issue you a MD and show proof that you have done the work, then they dont ask any questions about your clinicals. They used to "count" you clinicals and see where you did them and if they were green, but not anymore. I called the PA Medical board to see if this is the case and they said yes. It is also in writing in the new Pennsylvania code. I have never heard of a state other than PA requiring both greenbook electives and cores. From what I have heard/read some states do require all green cores, but not green electives. I thought PA was the only one that had the "all Green" rule, but like I said, that has changed. What states do require all green rotations and where did you get this info from? Thanks