the truth about Xavier clinicals??

[IMG Reality]

So, it's good to see there is finally a place to talk about one of the biggest problems with the school... clinicals or should i say observerships.

On the new school website it states "All US Clinical Rotations are ACGME approved and follow Greenbook standards". Everyone should know by now that in order for a rotation to be ACGME approved it has to be under a residency program at a hospital. Again, I ask where is the proof of these hospital affiliations? All the website states is some candy coated statement in hopes of nobody actually taking the time to look further into the matter.

GMC is the company the school uses for rotations. Other carib schools have used this company in the past, but have withdrawn their contracts because of how they setup rotations. The GMC website states in the FAQ section, "Your rotations will take place primarily in outpatient settings such as community clinics and urgent cares. However, depending on the location of the clinical rotation (i.e. Atlanta, Georgia), your attending physician and the hospital policies with regards to IMG, you may find access to hospital wards and be able to follow your patient while admitted, under the direct supervision of your attending physician." How can these rotations be ACGME approved if they are in primarily outpatient settings???

I've heard some people say that all of this doesn't matter because at the end of the day it's all about the paperwork. A student does a "rotation" with doctor (x) and then receives a recommendation. Doctor (x) happens to be affiliated with hospital (y) nearby that has a residency program for that area of medicine. So, the paperwork says that the student did the rotation at hospital (y) because doctor (x) has the affiliation, but it was actually done in the private practice office of doctor (x). What kind of physicians are these types of training scenarios actually producing?? Sure it may look good on paper, but was anything useful actually learned during this "rotation" and if so was it comparable to a US med school rotation?

I'm curious as to what a student would do if a state medical board actually found out that the "rotations" were done in this manner. Are there any legal ramifications behind this type of false representation of real clinical rotations? I know GMC has been around for at least 5 years so I was wondering if any students from other schools actually got full state licenses using this company and doing these types of "rotations"?

I'm not trying to go on some big witch hunt towards the school just because they make it so easy to do so. It's just that we as students are investing an enormous financial commitment into this process and I don't want to be one of those students that A) can't get a license because the rotations aren't valid and B) end up jeopardizing a patient because of lack of adequate training.

Any thoughts or input on this matter would be helpful, not only from Xavier students but any school.

[playahatergameplaya]

all these wonderful thoughts about xusom but as part of the SGA, what are you all doing about it? nothing besides flapping your gums. this proves my point, the SGA is absolutely useless. most students get involved in SGA to fill up their resume so they can tell residency programs that "I" was involved in SGA. xusom SGA does nothing for you, doesn't work for you and wastes money on Subway sandwiches.
I still remember in april the current SGA group made wonderful campaign promises and nothing has gotten done.

[IMG Reality]

In case you missed the clearly spelled out title of this section, this is to discuss clinicals only. My post has nothing to do with SGA, i'm not even in SGA. So, if you have a comment about rotations then give your input, if not remove your post. We can discuss SGA in another forum if you want. The object here is to get some real info about the current status of clinical rotations at this school.

[playahatergameplaya]

The SGA promised to look into all the clinical rotations, comprise a list and give it out to the students. they were supposed to get things organized for us. what has been done? NOTHING...so in relation to your post on clinicals.
The SGA has done nothing again besides flapping their gums.

[IMG Reality]

I was talking about your previous post, it was not related to the topic. It's good and all to hold SGA accountable for what they say, but they aren't the ones who put the false information about clinicals on the website. Ultimately, you should be holding the school accoutable for what they say or write. SGA is just a median information line between the students and the school. If you want to accuse anyone of not owning up to what they say, it should be the school.

[Southerndoc]

I think you bring up an excellent point and this is an issue that I wished more current Xavier clinical students discussed with us. If GMC is only offering "outpatient settings" for rotations then the school needs to find other affiliations for us that enable us to do rotations in actual hospitals. The school is getting older, more popular, more recognized, and has new owners now. These are the changes that need to be focused on.

I agree that the paperwork may allow us to qualify for having done "acgme approved" rotations, but it does seem like a risk to take, and more importantly, it jeopardizes patients lives if they are with residents who weren't trained properly during rotations like you said. I think this is a serious issue and should be discussed with the school board. If all of the students sit quietly and do not question or communicate with the head honchos of the school then these problems will remain unresolved.

[fossildoc]

the school needs to find other affiliations for us that enable us to do rotations in actual hospitals. ... If all of the students sit quietly and do not question or communicate with the head honchos of the school then these problems will remain unresolved.

The school just signed a two-year contract with GMC, so they're going to be around for a while. See my post on GMC in the main forum for some twists.

Have you ever wondered why students seem to disappear when they go to fifth and beyond? I know the reason, because I'm in touch with them. They don't want to spoil the "system". It's like a political machine in a big city; nobody wants to make waves for fear of disturbing the well-oiled system of payoffs and favors. Complaining about what really happens in the rotations world could attract the attention of regulators, which would prompt investigations, and all Carib schools would be forced to get their act together, resulting in steeply increased tuition. So we leave well-enough alone.

As for students confronting the administration, you apparently haven't read my post "zebras and lions".

[IMG Reality]

The school just signed a two-year contract with GMC, so they're going to be around for a while.

I guess its the natural progression of a newer school to start with outside companies to be in control of setting up clinical rotations. I know other similar schools like Xavier use outside companies too, because it is the most financially sound option. Bigger more established schools, such as SGU, have an enormous amount of financial backing so securing big hospital contracts, like HHC in NY, are commonplace.

My only problem is how these companies advertise what types of rotations are being offered. In the long run I think it is better for a school to come clean about what they offer and don't try and hide anything from current and prospective students. I realize some newer schools don't want to publish the hospital affiliations they established in fear of larger schools "buying them out", but at least make this info available to current students so they can plan ahead what their options are.

In the white coat ceremony the other day one of the new owners stated that they are seeking out affiliations other then what GMC offers for the future. Hopefully, they keep their word about this and can offer students every opportunity possible. If a student scores at or above the mean of US medical students on step 1 then they should at least get the chance to be licensed in the states that require all cores greenbook (not bluebook) by doing those types of rotations.

[AUCMD2006]

I think you bring up an excellent point and this is an issue that I wished more current Xavier clinical students discussed with us. If GMC is only offering "outpatient settings" for rotations then the school needs to find other affiliations for us that enable us to do rotations in actual hospitals. The school is getting older, more popular, more recognized, and has new owners now. These are the changes that need to be focused on.

I agree that the paperwork may allow us to qualify for having done "acgme approved" rotations, but it does seem like a risk to take, and more importantly, it jeopardizes patients lives if they are with residents who weren't trained properly during rotations like you said. I think this is a serious issue and should be discussed with the school board. If all of the students sit quietly and do not question or communicate with the head honchos of the school then these problems will remain unresolved.

every single one of you should be very careful with this "rotation" set up. they are not rotations they are observerships and do not count towards a medical degree in the eyes of medical boards and will not count towards a restricted residency or full license if they find out.

what you are doing are observerships...rotations have to be done through the gme office of the hospital and you have to do the rotation through the hopsital, be graded by the hospital on hospital records. while it may "look good on paper" its a sham and will likely get you in trouble if the residency program you end up at finds out.

here is a simple test to see if your rotation counts. goto the california medical board website and download a L6 form. this form is required for california licensure and in it it has a place the hospital fills out saying that you did a rotation, the rotatioin you did, and the residency affiliation and its acgme number. it has to be signed by the program director of the hospital certifying that you did a rotation in that acgme program.

now i know xavier is not on a cali list and will never be able to work there but this is a real simple litmus test you as students can use to see if the admin/sga/gmc etc is being honest about rotations. i am not doing this out of spite beleive me..i would absolutely hate to see any more students be harmed by the shady practice of touting observerships as full acgm,e greenbook rotations. unfortunately you will only find out when your credentials are verified

you also have to uinderstand the difference between residency andfull licensure. for resideny there isn;t much paperwork since your program director is vouching for your education and you are supervised...basically they don't look too deep. the full licensurse applications i have require "direct verification" of credentials...what this means is that they will want a letter from the residency program you are claiming training through when you were a med student, they also want your residency graduation certificate, case logs, procedure list and any certifications you got as a resident and all are verifiued direct from source not from your records at the hospital or school.

look out for each other no one else will

[BriannadS]

so, basically we are stuck with GMC and blue book rotations?
AUCMD2006 - I dont know if you are affiliated with Xavier or how much you know, but if what you say is true, why has this not been brought to attention?!

[lisaye81]

Yes, ALL of our rotations are BLUE. You guys all need to chill out. If we didn't f-up in our undergrads, we would all be getting green book rotations from a better medical school. Going to a substandard medical school is the path you chose, deal with it. Make it better than what it is. Ask the doctor questions, ask them to teach you how to do things, volunteer to do procedures under their supervision and don't just stand there and watch them.

We can't do anything about the fact that we're stuck in blue book rotations. That crap only matters when you want to get licensed in specific states. Look into the state that you want to get licensed in, check if they have any other states that you can get a license transfered in from, and check if they actually need greenbook rotations. Other than that I don't really see any benefit of having greenbook rotations. You're rotating with residents, which makes less time for you to do any procedures on your own bc the priority goes to teaching residents, and the student to attending doctor ratio is much higher.

Our rotations are verified. students who graduated from XUSOM have gotten into residency and are doing fine because they worked hard. It all depends on what you want out of your medschool experience. You decide what you want to learn. The doctors will teach you, if you ask them to. I had to harass my doctor for a week before he let me do sutures in his family clinic and he said no, until a patient told me I could and my doctor supervised.

If you want greenbook rotations, transfer to another school. Don't wait around for our school to get greenbook rotations, it's probably not going to happen any time soon. If it does, that's great, if they don't, don't expect it.

There are VERY FEW American schools that will take Caribbean transfer students, if they had stellar marks and an awesome step 1 score and IF they have any spots (ie. someone dropped out or got kicked out). Ross has greenbook rotations, they will take you if you got over 200 on the step 1, and depending on what school you came from. I don't know if XUSOM is on their list of accepted transfers.

I dont think XUSOM ever told me that we had any greenbook rotations, so I don't know where people are getting this information from.

[IMG Reality]

Ask the doctor questions, ask them to teach you how to do things, volunteer to do procedures under their supervision and don't just stand there and watch them.

Good advice because one of the disadvantages is that some clinical skills may be missed if a particular rotation is restricting the "hands-on" experience. If you can make the best out of each rotation then these skills won't have to be learned during residency.

Other than that I don't really see any benefit of having greenbook rotations. You're rotating with residents, which makes less time for you to do any procedures on your own bc the priority goes to teaching residents, and the student to attending doctor ratio is much higher.

I have heard many times too that just because the rotation is green doesn't mean it is a good experience. In fact it may be a worse experience then one that is done directly with a physician. It's unfortunate that green rotations sometimes just come down to "looking good on paper".


There are VERY FEW American schools that will take Caribbean transfer students, if they had stellar marks and an awesome step 1 score and IF they have any spots (ie. someone dropped out or got kicked out). Ross has greenbook rotations, they will take you if you got over 200 on the step 1, and depending on what school you came from. I don't know if XUSOM is on their list of accepted transfers.

Recently, Caribbean schools have gotten strict with the amount of advanced standing they are giving to transfer students. I think one of the reasons is strictly money and this is not surprising when you think about it. Xavier tuition is $6500 (basic sciences), take AUCs tuition for example $13,200(basic sciences) if they were to give you all basic science credits through transfer you basically paid half the price to get the same degree. Other more obvious reasons would be state approvals, but most of these schools curriculums are the same so one could argue the education could be comparable. Teachers can only make so much of a difference, i mean after all the same textbooks are used for most of these classes.


I dont think XUSOM ever told me that we had any greenbook rotations, so I don't know where people are getting this information from.

The school had a quote on the website that all rotations were ACGME greenbook, it was listed in two areas. I think this was a blanket statement and maybe it was put on the website without adequate information on what is available. It was recently removed, but I know the school is doing what they can to stay competetive in obtaining new hospital contracts. They have recently listed what current hospital affiliations they have, which is a positive step.

[AUCMD2006]

so, basically we are stuck with GMC and blue book rotations?
AUCMD2006 - I dont know if you are affiliated with Xavier or how much you know, but if what you say is true, why has this not been brought to attention?!


as the name implies i am an aic grad and a second year gyn resident. no affiliation to xavier whatsoever. as to why these things aren't brought up i don't know....small amount if students, not many that come on this website, not many bother to actually check on this uyntil applying for residency or full license, 3rd years med students don't care about anything other than doing rotations....i don't klnow but i do know that the info i post is as accurate as far as i know and anything incorrect when i post i am the first to admit wrong and change it


just be very carefull wuth rotations not all schools are equal, not all schools will get you to the same place, and not all schools will allow you to work

[jameslynton]

GMC was used by AUA for the first group of their students. When the blue book vs greenbook thing came to light AUA dropped GMC like a hot cinder. Rotations had to be repeated in some cases where they were not greenbook for some of the students - there was grinding and gnashing of teeth till it got sorted out. Look on the AUA forum about a 1 1/2 years ago. AUC2006 is generally on the target about these things. Where you go does make a difference!

[jameslynton]

Yes, ALL of our rotations are BLUE. You guys all need to chill out. If we didn't mess up in our undergrads, ....What you did in undergrad is not relevant to medical school - Once you have made it pass the step 1 - Schools need to provide quality greenbook clinicals. As for Ross - there are blue book rotations there if you are not careful also. If you wish to even be considered for Texas all your clinicals need to greenbook rotations. Many other schools have this issue including US schools!

[IMG Reality]

Note that the school states that not all cores or electives are available to Xavier students at each site, eventhough there are ACGME programs available at that location. As more information comes to light the list will be updated.

List was compiled off of ACGME & Freida search

Alaska Medical Center
Anchorage, Alaska
Cores:
Family Medicine
Surgery-General
440-03-22-026 Banner Good Samaritan Medical Center Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,4400322026,00.html)


Cherry Hospital
Goldsboro, North Carolina
ACGME programs: Family medicine


DeKalb Medical Center
Decatur, Georgia
ACGME programs: Family medicine


Floyd Medical Center
Rome, Georgia
Cores:
Family Medicine :
120-12-31-094 Floyd Medical Center Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1201231094,00.html)


Harbor Medical Center
Baltimore, Maryland
Affiliated with Univ of Maryland School of Medicine
Cores:
Internal Medicine :
140-23-31-158 Harbor Hospital Center Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1402331158,00.html)


Jackson Park Hospital
Chicago, Illinois
Cores:
Family Medicine :
120-16-12-363 Jackson Park Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1201612363,00.html)


Lake Charles Hospital
Lake Charles, Louisiana
Cores:
Family Medicine :
120-21-21-594 Louisiana State University (Lake Charles) Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1202121594,00.html)


Metro Healthcare System
Cleveland, Ohio
(electives can only be done)
Electives:
Anethesiology, Emergency medicine, Geriatric medicine, Cardiovascular disease, gastroenterology, rheumatology, clinical cardiac electrophysiology, pulmonary disease, pathology, cytopathology, adolescent medicine, neonatal-perinatal medicine, physical medicine and rehabilitation, spinal cord injury, radiology, vascular and interventional radiology, Internal medicine/pediatrics.


Michael Reese Hospital
Chicago, Illinois
(according to FSMB internal medicine and cardiovascular disease ACGME programs are closed, though apparently still rotating students)
Electives:
Ophthalmology :
240-16-21-052 University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,2401621052,00.html)
Pediatric Anesthesiology (AN) :
042-16-21-025 University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,0421621025,00.html)
Rheumatology (IM) :
150-16-21-097 University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1501621097,00.html)


Northern Virginia Mental Health Institute
Falls Church, Virginia
cores:
ACGME programs: Psychiatry


Saint Vincent Catholic Medical Center
Queens, New York
(Manhattan campus (NY Medical College Affiliate) has all cores green and many electives, not sure about the Queens campus. Xavier is not NY state approved so can't due >12 weeks of rotations at location)


Union Memorial Hospital
Baltimore, Maryland
cores:
Internal Medicine :
140-23-12-159 Union Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1402312159,00.html)
Surgery-General :
440-23-21-127 Union Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,4402321127,00.html)
Family Medicine :
120-23-21-156 University of Maryland Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1202321156,00.html)

electives:
Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Metabolism (IM) :
143-23-31-187 Union Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1432331187,00.html)
Orthopaedic Surgery :
260-23-31-087 Union Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,2602331087,00.html)
Plastic Surgery :
360-23-21-037 Johns Hopkins University/University of Maryland Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,3602321037,00.html)
Sports Medicine (FM) :
127-23-21-051 University of Maryland Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1272321051,00.html)


Yakima Regional Medical and Cardiac Center
Yakima, Washington
Cores:
Family Medicine :
120-54-21-522 Yakima Valley Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1205421522,00.html)


Greater Medical Center
Atlanta Georgia
(GMC group setups up IMG US rotations)


Affiliated Institute of Medical Sciences
Chicago, Illinois
Cores:
ACGME progams: Family medicine through JPH

[bestmedicine]

Quick warning to those Xavier clinical students rotating in Chicago area:

Xavier is really behind in payment for the clinical rotations in Chicago area; in fact, their invoices have not been paid since mid July 2008, ever since the new owners took over! (And possible before that, too)

It might BEHOOVE you guys to pay DIRECTLY to whichever organizations that you are rotating with....otherwise, when it comes to getting your evaluations sent to Xavier clinicals, you might run into some issues!

Don't say I didn't warn you!

[MIMS06]

Hopefully someone can help me out here...give me some insight/advice.

I've read a lot of the Aruba/Xavier posts - and it's clear to me that I should stay clear from the Aruba-based location, but how about the transferring into the clinical rotations program and never stepping foot in Aruba - possible? I realize the financial situation is tough with loans, but assuming I could arrange payment - Is the transfer beneficial for an FMG?

A profile of me to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with:
US citizen
60+ undergrad credits (US university)
Finishing 2nd Yr Med School in April 09 (IMED listed, in India)

Doing well in school, however, it's a "5 1/2" year course here.
On top of that students spend an extra 1 year to clear Step 1 and 2.
Based on the timing of the normal residency match, you're looking at 7 years between start of med school and start of residency. With the transfer, I'm shrinking that by 1-2 years, and I'm getting US clinical exposure.

My option is to join Xavier's 5th semester program in Atlanta. Transfer all of my pre-clinical subjects (although I've already been on rotations in India for a year now). And after (hopefully) clearing Step 1, I'd continue to the supposedly green-book hospitals.

Does this seem worth the effort? Do the US clinicial experience and the US physician recommendations justify transferring into the Xavier Clinical Program?

Keep in mind, I'd never step foot in Aruba...it would only be clinical rotations in the US at this point. (In India, you have classes for 4.5 years along with clinicals for 3.5 years.)

[IMG Reality]

Note that the school states that not all cores or electives are available to Xavier students at each site, eventhough there are ACGME programs available at that location. As more information comes to light the list will be updated.

List was compiled off of ACGME & Freida search

Alaska Medical Center
Anchorage, Alaska
Cores:
Family Medicine
Surgery-General
440-03-22-026 Banner Good Samaritan Medical Center Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,4400322026,00.html)


Cherry Hospital
Goldsboro, North Carolina
ACGME programs: Family medicine


DeKalb Medical Center
Decatur, Georgia
ACGME programs: Family medicine


Floyd Medical Center
Rome, Georgia
Cores:
Family Medicine :
120-12-31-094 Floyd Medical Center Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1201231094,00.html)


Harbor Medical Center
Baltimore, Maryland
Affiliated with Univ of Maryland School of Medicine
Cores:
Internal Medicine :
140-23-31-158 Harbor Hospital Center Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1402331158,00.html)


Jackson Park Hospital
Chicago, Illinois
Cores:
Family Medicine :
120-16-12-363 Jackson Park Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1201612363,00.html)


Lake Charles Hospital
Lake Charles, Louisiana
Cores:
Family Medicine :
120-21-21-594 Louisiana State University (Lake Charles) Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1202121594,00.html)


Metro Healthcare System
Cleveland, Ohio
(electives can only be done)
Electives:
Anethesiology, Emergency medicine, Geriatric medicine, Cardiovascular disease, gastroenterology, rheumatology, clinical cardiac electrophysiology, pulmonary disease, pathology, cytopathology, adolescent medicine, neonatal-perinatal medicine, physical medicine and rehabilitation, spinal cord injury, radiology, vascular and interventional radiology, Internal medicine/pediatrics.


Michael Reese Hospital
Chicago, Illinois
(according to FSMB internal medicine and cardiovascular disease ACGME programs are closed, though apparently still rotating students)
Electives:
Ophthalmology :
240-16-21-052 University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,2401621052,00.html)
Pediatric Anesthesiology (AN) :
042-16-21-025 University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,0421621025,00.html)
Rheumatology (IM) :
150-16-21-097 University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1501621097,00.html)


Northern Virginia Mental Health Institute
Falls Church, Virginia
cores:
ACGME programs: Psychiatry


Saint Vincent Catholic Medical Center
Queens, New York
(Manhattan campus (NY Medical College Affiliate) has all cores green and many electives, not sure about the Queens campus. Xavier is not NY state approved so can't due >12 weeks of rotations at location)


Union Memorial Hospital
Baltimore, Maryland
cores:
Internal Medicine :
140-23-12-159 Union Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1402312159,00.html)
Surgery-General :
440-23-21-127 Union Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,4402321127,00.html)
Family Medicine :
120-23-21-156 University of Maryland Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1202321156,00.html)

electives:
Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Metabolism (IM) :
143-23-31-187 Union Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1432331187,00.html)
Orthopaedic Surgery :
260-23-31-087 Union Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,2602331087,00.html)
Plastic Surgery :
360-23-21-037 Johns Hopkins University/University of Maryland Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,3602321037,00.html)
Sports Medicine (FM) :
127-23-21-051 University of Maryland Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1272321051,00.html)


Yakima Regional Medical and Cardiac Center
Yakima, Washington
Cores:
Family Medicine :
120-54-21-522 Yakima Valley Memorial Hospital Program (http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,1205421522,00.html)


Greater Medical Center
Atlanta Georgia
(GMC group setups up IMG US rotations)


Affiliated Institute of Medical Sciences
Chicago, Illinois
Cores:
ACGME progams: Family medicine through JPH




I updated the list and cross-referenced it against the Freida website along with the ACGME website. I am still trying to get the number of spots available for students and what particular cores/electives are available for students to rotate in. This is just a list of what is available at each hospital/affiliate, if anyone has any further insights reply to thread.

[Southerndoc]

Thanks for compiling the detailed list! I was actually working on a 'greenbook rotation' list myself and trying to compile it all together. You beat me to it, and seems like you covered all the hospital affiliations.

I'll see if there is anything I can add to that.

To reply to the student from India who is considering transferring to Xavier:
If you are really serious about practicing in the US and saving those 1-2 years then I would definitely do it. It's not going to be an easy ride at all so be ready for the bumps along the way. However, if you come here and prepare really well for the Step 1, do well, and move on to rotations, then I don't see why there will be any problem with you graduating from Xavier. I'm doing it, and I have full faith in the decision I've made about coming here. You have already gotten your basic sciences out of the way so that's even better. It is possible for you to obtain greenbook rotations as you have seen in the above post but you will have to really work with the hospitals and the school to make sure you can obtain all of them in a timely fashion. Call the school and ask them about international transfer students. They'll give you all the info. you need and if you have any other questions feel free to private message me.

[Doctor-in-training]

To say its all in the paperwork......in the end the student will be sacrificed. It won't matter if you understand or don't understand. You can be a licensed Dr. working and if it came to light that the papers were fudged..........you will be the one who suffers. No one at ECFMG will care it is your responsibility to make sure everything is proper and this could me discipline....for fraud such as going back to re-do clerkships because they won't care you made it through a Residency. All they will care about is You did not follow the steps or rules to get their or one's license could be removed for misrepresentation. A big mess. A big nightmare and who needs it. If you rely on the list of rotations on a web-site ever called any of those so called hospital or green book affliations. You'd be surprised to find its Xavier WHO......sorry never heard of you and good like getting any rotation. The only rotations are ones GMC book and it is more like observorship in a clinic and no hands on or hospital work. You can not be a good Doctor by job shadowing. The lies and deception are shocking and is the SGA doing anything NO. Anyone listening to the students. NO. It is take it or leave it attitude. Then its no wonder why mainstream medical schools don't accept caribbean students this is why.

[Slingerlandrox]

I am working my way through GMC rotations. I worked my butt off in a few of them, and others have been easy. I feel like I am learning and getting some hands on experience. I have a handful of friends who matched doing the same program. 15 or so schools rotate through GMC and I find it questionable that they are scamming so many students.

[IMG Reality]

From what I hear, GMC should eventually be completely phased out from Xavier over the upcoming years. New members of the admin team at Xavier are acquiring many new hospital contracts... the focus is on inpatient rotations. With GMC it is mainly outpatient observership type experiences.

The new step 1 passing requirement before starting clinicals is going into effect January 2010, teaching hospitals require this as the bare minimum to accept students for rotations.

[Prospero]

..................

[AUCMD2006]

I am working my way through GMC rotations. I worked my butt off in a few of them, and others have been easy. I feel like I am learning and getting some hands on experience. I have a handful of friends who matched doing the same program. 15 or so schools rotate through GMC and I find it questionable that they are scamming so many students.


if the rotations are not done through the GME (graduate medical office) in a hospital, if the rotations isn't done through a residency program either in the specialty your are rotating in or if the hospital does not have a family practice resdency, if you are doing rotations through a private doctor who takes you to the hospital with then its an observership and not a med school rotation regardless of how its on your transcripts

it will probably get by graduation, may get by residency and you will probably have a temporary training license, you may even get a permanent license in the states that dont look hard at education but if and when the issue is brought up either by a thorough patient or when you get sued then its game over. i dont know why schools allow students to take this chance

there are a few ways to tell if your rotation is really valid. easiest is to do a greenbook rotation meaning you are in a hospital that has a residency in the rotation you are doing, you are part of the medical team, rotate with residents, you get your grades from the GME office and the program you are rotataing in has an ACGME number

next is the family practice umbrella where the hospital you are rotating at has a family practice residency that has FP residents rotating in the specialty you are doing your rotation in. this is s blue book rotation. again grades come from the GME office of the hospital.

what about outpatient rotations you ask. both of the above apply where you are rotating through an outpt clinic with residents in that specialty then greenbook, rotating with faculty that teaches the FP residents then blue book. and again grades are turned in by the attending and go through the GME office

again shadowing a doctor with privilidges at a hospirtal does not mean you are doing a medical school rotation. a nameless company got in trouble for sending students to a georgia hospital with private attendings not part of teaching faculty and the schools then claimed greenbook rotations because the attenbding had privilidges there.

now all foreign students are banned from that entire hospital system not just the idiots from the schools that use the company but all foreign students. now i cant mention the name of the company i guess but rest assured its still active, its still senbding students through clinics that are still observerships

all of you need to be very carefull. there is a resident at my hospital right now from one of these schools so they got a training license. i showed him all this stuff about rotations on the acgme website then showed them the 47 page permanent license application to florida where they ask in detail all the rotation info and they are now freaking out..so know what you are getting please