clinicals

[Drzee2012]

Anyone knows where rotations would be for 6-10 semesters. Any idea?

[nikeman]

I received an email that stated "We have established clinical relationships so far with Illinois, Georgia, New York, and Puerto Rico. We are in the process of setting up several other clinical opportunities for our students." I don't know the exact locations, but they did tell me that.

[Drzee2012]

I received an email that stated "We have established clinical relationships so far with Illinois, Georgia, New York, and Puerto Rico. We are in the process of setting up several other clinical opportunities for our students." I don't know the exact locations, but they did tell me that.

So New York is part of it. very good. thank you

[MDIN2009]

How can a school that does not have NY approval have NY clinical s?

[nikeman]

I'm not sure how, but I would like the UMHS official to answer that for all of us. What I posted was sent to me in an email from the west coast office for UMHS.

[rokshana]

i was going to ask the exact same thing....you need NYS approval to do rotations in NY....and that takes a while...typo?

[medicine2k6]

NO you do not need NY approval to do rotations in NY. The rule is that you can do rotations in NY BUT for only LESS than 12 weeks.

However, a school that does have NY approval can do rotations for MORE than 12 weeks. Thats the difference.

But having approval does carry ofcourse leverage for the school and looks great :)

[rokshana]

NO you do not need NY approval to do rotations in NY. The rule is that you can do rotations in NY BUT for only LESS than 12 weeks.

However, a school that does have NY approval can do rotations for MORE than 12 weeks. Thats the difference.

But having approval does carry ofcourse leverage for the school and looks great :)

ahhh...that makes sense, but then why are there schools that can't do clinicals in NY?

[medicine2k6]

Well there can be a variety of reasons why another school cant place their students in rotations in NY such as if they have the proper accreditations, whether a hospital would accept them or even deal with them, status of the school or even whether the school has established strong connections, etc.

But rest assured I doubt UMHS will have any problem because its got all that. NY approval my guess will come within 2-3 years.

You guys should realize something else...Im sure the school is going after several state approvals. Take a look at where there are UMHS offices set up: Flordia, NY, CALI...

I havent even heard of a carribean med school have a office in Cali so thats interesting. This is all preparation to go after state approvals and look good. Also to show them we are legit and know what we are doing.

[MDIN2009]

That still does not answer the question. Do they have NY clinical s now or in 2-3 years. That is the question. There is no doubt that the school will do well...

[medicine2k6]

The answer to your question is YES, they do have NY clinicals right now.

[rokshana]

I havent even heard of a carribean med school have a office in Cali so thats interesting.

actually i believe AUC has a cali office...

[MDIN2009]

The answer to your question is YES, they do have NY clinicals right now.


Oh ok...so only for 12 weeks. thanks

[MDIN2009]

Here is a Great post on NY, clinicals and Residency BYMatCFAMD (http://www.valuemd.com/members/matcfamd.html)

The current situation applies to UMHS as well.

New York: Clinicals, Residency and Licensure as a Windsor Grad
What do you mean Windsor students can't do any rotation in New York?

As a school, Windsor is not in the approved list of schools that can send its students to do clerkships that exceed 12 weeks spread over two-academic years.

To say that Windsor students can't do rotation in New York at all is not the proper way to say it. They can, but not to exceed 12 weeks.

Only those students from the schools in the approved list can do full-time clerkships in New York. Also Not being in this list does not reflect the quality of medical education coming from those schools. This list includes only 13 medical schools who established some affiliations with teaching hospitals, and these schools are the only schools outside USA and Canada that can send their students to the State of New York and be able to do clerkships and rotations the total length of which can aggreggate to exceed 12 weeks over a two-academic-year period.

So, when you talk about the New York approval, that's for clerkships that can exceed 12 weeks. "not exceeding 12 weeks" is the key here. This is strictly reinforced. Here are the 13 schools that are in the approved list.

American University of Antigua, Antigua
American University of the Caribbean, St. Martin, Netherland Antilles
The Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Guadalajara, Mexico
English Language Program, University of Debrecen, Medical and Health Science Center, Medical School, Debrecen, Hungary
English Language Program, Medical University of Lublin, Lublin, Poland
English Language Program, Medical University of Silesia, Katowice, Poland
Fatima College of Medicine, Manila, Philippines
International Health and Medicine Program, Ben Gurion University of the Negrev, Beer-Sheva, Israel
Kasturba Medical College, Manipal, India
Medical University of the Americas/Nevis, Nevis, West Indies
Ross University School of Medicine, Roseau, Dominica
Saba University School of Medicine, Saba, Netherland Antilles
St. George's University School of Medicine, St. George's, Grenada
St. Matthew's University School of Medicine, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands

Now, not being in this list does not imply the quality of your school's medical education is sub par. This list is not intended to serve that purpose. Okay? This list merely includes those schools that did apply to the State of New York to send their students for full time clerkships, and were approved. It is for that purpose that this list exists. For a school to apply to be in the list, there are a lot of money involved, resources, so not only the quality of the school.

Also, this list is not the eligibility list to do residency in New York. As a Windsor student, you are not ineligible to do postgraduate training in New York. You become ineligible, however, if you spend more than 12 weeks of clerkships outside the country where your medical school is located.

For Licensure:
So if you desire to be licensed in New York, as a Windsor student, you can be, regardless whether you did your residency or not in the State of New York. Your postgraduate training must be ACGME-accredited, and if you spent more than 12 weeks of clerkship outside the country where your medical school is located, you must document each of those rotations, using Form 2CC.

For Residency:
If you desire to do your postgraduate training in the State of New York, to be eligible, you cannot exceed 12 weeks clerkship outside the country where your school is located. Options are to spend clerkships in St. Kitts and maximum 12 weeks in the US to be eligible to enter match for and accept postgraduate programs offered located in State of New York; or do all rotations in the US (but not all rotations in the state of New York, for Windsor students, max is 12 weeks) but you cannot accept postgraduate training offered in State of New York. The reason here is because you spend more than 12 weeks of clerkship outside the country where your medical school is chartered and accredited. This rule applies to all foreign medical schools outside USA and Canada, not only to Windsor. Students from schools in the 'approved list' can spend more than 12 weeks of clerkship, however, and still remain eligible to apply for residency in the State of New York.

So, very briefly, Windsor students
-- are allowed only the maximum 12 weeks of clinical rotations in the State of New York;
-- as eligible as any IMED-medical school grad to apply for residency in the State of NY provided the 12 weeks limit for rotations outside his/her country is not exceeded;
-- and can be licensed as any IMED-medical school grad in the State of NY (subject to other requirements relevant to the school, and to the student in particular).

If you are licensed in a state other than the state of new york, you can also apply for licensure subject to other requirements, and may or may need to complete additional year of postgraduate training.

[Compassion MD]

This apply to Sint Eustatius students too.., 12 weeks...

[medschool123]

I was looking on the UMHS website and I see that the school is definitely coming along great, but I was curious to know why the website was so vague on where and if the school has clinical sites yet?

As of right now does the school have any clinical sites? If not, when will you and when will u post where they are?

Id like to know this before transferring and not jus myself, many prospective students are waiting to see and find out!

[medicine2k6]

Growing schools dont immediately publish their clinical sites because of the competition with other carribean schools. UMHS is getting itself established at a rapid rate and Im sure it will release their clinical sites soon. The "competition" between schools is not just about getting the clinical site but to get AS MANY SEATS AS POSSIBLE there for their students. So if they start publishing sites without circulating enough students, other schools will start getting in touch with the hospitals, etc. and start taking seats away. This all from what Ive understood.

[jjphilly13]

I would like either a current UMHS student or UMHS school offical to reply to this posting either in the public forum or send me a private message.

I check the web page for UMHS daily, I see NO changes of were "THESE" clinicals are located...just the states.

Can someone answer a few questions?
1. WHat hospitals/medical centers are these rotations located?
2. Can a student perform all of his/her 3rd yr at one facility?....or does a student have to relocate every 6 or 12 wks??

I know I will have more ? in the future.....so please add some in:idea:

[butterflymd]

Hey J Phil have you tried contacting the main office in New York City. I think that would be a better place to have your questions answered. Associate Director of Adm JK is an excellent source of information. Hope that helps. :p

[UMHS]

We have worked very hard to only send out information that is accurate at the time of the posting or mailing. IF we talk about future plans, we identify them as plans. It saves us from embarrassment when a plan goes awry. When schools, UMHS included, post plans as if they weres current facts, it always looks like they were lying if the plan doesn't come to fruition.

If we say that we have a rotation, it means that we have a contract so that our September 5th semester students will be able to enter that rotation in January 2009.

At the moment, we still are not announcing the exact locations of rotations. As I'm sure you know, it is a highly competitive market and we are keeping our hand close to our vest.

In some cases, 3rd year students will need to switch hospitals for their next rotation. In other cases, they will be able to do all or most of their core rotations in the same location.

As we get closer to the January semester and the ink dries completely on the hospital contracts, we will make one announcement giving specifics of all the clinical sites, both big and small.

[Drwanabe]

hello, i was wondering if anybody knew which hospitals are affiliated with the states in which this schools has clinicals set up. New York, Arizona, Connecticut, Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois, Puerto Rico, and Michigan are listed on their site. thanks

[WSUCougar]

hello, i was wondering if anybody knew which hospitals are affiliated with the states in which this schools has clinicals set up. New York, Arizona, Connecticut, Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois, Puerto Rico, and Michigan are listed on their site. thanks

please refer to the previous post before yours

[rokshana]

We have worked very hard to only send out information that is accurate at the time of the posting or mailing. IF we talk about future plans, we identify them as plans. It saves us from embarrassment when a plan goes awry. When schools, UMHS included, post plans as if they weres current facts, it always looks like they were lying if the plan doesn't come to fruition.

If we say that we have a rotation, it means that we have a contract so that our September 5th semester students will be able to enter that rotation in January 2009.

At the moment, we still are not announcing the exact locations of rotations. As I'm sure you know, it is a highly competitive market and we are keeping our hand close to our vest.

In some cases, 3rd year students will need to switch hospitals for their next rotation. In other cases, they will be able to do all or most of their core rotations in the same location.

As we get closer to the January semester and the ink dries completely on the hospital contracts, we will make one announcement giving specifics of all the clinical sites, both big and small.


bravo! i really like that you are straight forward and up front with both the info that you do have and that you do not have other pieces of info....please keep it up!

[NewYorkRes]

Do you guys have any UK rotations as I wouldn't mind going there for a while before getting back home to NY

[UMHS]

At this time we do not have any rotations in the UK. If you have the contacts there (or at any hospital for that matter) and they are willing to accept you as a student, you may contact the Clinical Sciences Office and they will set up the rotations for you. But at the presnet time, we have no contracts in the UK.

[umhssk]

Growing schools dont immediately publish their clinical sites because of the competition with other carribean schools. UMHS is getting itself established at a rapid rate and Im sure it will release their clinical sites soon. The "competition" between schools is not just about getting the clinical site but to get AS MANY SEATS AS POSSIBLE there for their students. So if they start publishing sites without circulating enough students, other schools will start getting in touch with the hospitals, etc. and start taking seats away. This all from what Ive understood.
I agree; and it is a general practice especially among the carib schools to steal spots. I believe that UMHS is particularly vulnerable to this as a new school. Care should be taken when discussing pot'l sites as to not give exact details.

[pvttimhall]

I think that is a load of crude. If the school has a solid rotation site and affiliation agreement, they shouldn't worry about someone else stealing their site.

The only way another school "steals" a site is by offering more money. SGU has more sites than they can use, AUC seems to be OK, only Ross would really try to muscle in on sites. IF UMHS is secure in finances and their contacts, they shouldn't be afraid to post this information.

Their lack of not posting this is costing them students from transferring and starting. If the school can't give prospective students all the information about their school before someone up-roots, moves to an island, spends hundreds of thousands of dollars and several years, then a person shouldn't attend. It is too much of a risk. This policy may save a few rotation sites, but is costing the school new students and a lot of additional cash flow, which would in turn give them the ability to pay for more sites.

[jackets5]

If you are just going to be starting 1st semester the last thing you should be worried about is clinicals. Why? Because clinicals change for good and for bad alot in the Carrib, especially in a 2 year period. What someone would tell you know may not be the case when you get to clinicals. Believe me UMHS is in very good shape in regards to clinical spots right now. All they have is GREEN rotation, and a very high up person said it is the plan that NO ONE will wait for rotations like at other schools. This may be a different type of Caribb school. Dr. Ross has tons of money, tons he dosent need anymore, his family dosent need anymore they are all set for life. Dr. Ross is 90 years old and goes to work almost everyday. This school I have a feeling is more about Dr. Ross leaving a legacy than it is strictly for making a profit like all other Carrib schools.

I think that is a load of crude. If the school has a solid rotation site and affiliation agreement, they shouldn't worry about someone else stealing their site.

The only way another school "steals" a site is by offering more money. SGU has more sites than they can use, AUC seems to be OK, only Ross would really try to muscle in on sites. IF UMHS is secure in finances and their contacts, they shouldn't be afraid to post this information.

Their lack of not posting this is costing them students from transferring and starting. If the school can't give prospective students all the information about their school before someone up-roots, moves to an island, spends hundreds of thousands of dollars and several years, then a person shouldn't attend. It is too much of a risk. This policy may save a few rotation sites, but is costing the school new students and a lot of additional cash flow, which would in turn give them the ability to pay for more sites.

[MDisME]

If you are just going to be starting 1st semester the last thing you should be worried about is clinicals. Why? Because clinicals change for good and for bad alot in the Carrib, especially in a 2 year period. What someone would tell you know may not be the case when you get to clinicals. Believe me UMHS is in very good shape in regards to clinical spots right now. All they have is GREEN rotation, and a very high up person said it is the plan that NO ONE will wait for rotations like at other schools. This may be a different type of Caribb school. Dr. Ross has tons of money, tons he dosent need anymore, his family dosent need anymore they are all set for life. Dr. Ross is 90 years old and goes to work almost everyday. This school I have a feeling is more about Dr. Ross leaving a legacy than it is strictly for making a profit like all other Carrib schools.

Jacket5,

I think you nailed it right on the head. It boggles my mind when people say things like "all they care about is the money." Think about this logically, the man is in his 90's, he's established one of the biggest schools in the Caribbean, he has an amazing reputation with amazing connections in the U.S., and you guys think NOW is when he wants to make a quick buck? I think he could care less about how much he makes! Dr. Ross really wants students to succeed. I don't think he's ready to ruin his reputation now. Is he an entrepreneur? Absolutely! But he's already accomplished everything he ever needed to accomplish, this is about leaving a legacy. If you spend 10 minutes speaking with anyone from the administration, especially ones that have worked with him before, you would understand that. To be perfectly honest, the reason I initially even looked into this school was because of Dr. Ross.

Anyways, like jacket5 already said, it's pointless to sit and ask where rotations are now, for something that isn't happening in over 2 years. They might find more rotation sites and lose some. Don't forget that a lot of time schools decide on whether to keep a site or not based on student feedback. Best of luck to everyone.

[WSUCougar]

Hey Guys-

Just to prove how much the Admin of this school cares about the students.....

My class (5th semester) was puzzled about where we would be going to clinicals, and how the whole process worked, in terms of being assigned, where these sites are, and how the grading works....

Well....... Our 5th semester Director Dr. P, spoke with W.R. (President) about this..... and he actually flew Dr. T (Provost), Dr. T (VP of Operations) to Portland Maine just to meet with us all day last friday. We also had a conference call with W.R.... We spoke extensively about clinical sites, and how grading is going to occur....... etc.

Everything went really smoothly, and I can Honestly tell you guys.... that we are set when it comes to Clinicals. We don't have a single Blue Site.... Everything is GREEN.

So just be reassured that the Admin of school knows exactly what they're doing, and how to do it.

Keep in mind also.... releasing a specific hospital name out there, potentially motivates a prospective student to call up that hospital directly and start bugging them with questions about "are you guys affiliated with UMHS", "where should I live", "what rotations are Green", etc etc.... It only takes one terd to ruin the reputation of our school there.

[pvttimhall]

Hey Guys-

Just to prove how much the Admin of this school cares about the students.....

My class (5th semester) was puzzled about where we would be going to clinicals, and how the whole process worked, in terms of being assigned, where these sites are, and how the grading works....

Well....... Our 5th semester Director Dr. P, spoke with W.R. (President) about this..... and he actually flew Dr. T (Provost), Dr. T (VP of Operations) to Portland Maine just to meet with us all day last friday. We also had a conference call with W.R.... We spoke extensively about clinical sites, and how grading is going to occur....... etc.

Everything went really smoothly, and I can Honestly tell you guys.... that we are set when it comes to Clinicals. We don't have a single Blue Site.... Everything is GREEN.

So just be reassured that the Admin of school knows exactly what they're doing, and how to do it.

Keep in mind also.... releasing a specific hospital name out there, potentially motivates a prospective student to call up that hospital directly and start bugging them with questions about "are you guys affiliated with UMHS", "where should I live", "what rotations are Green", etc etc.... It only takes one terd to ruin the reputation of our school there.


Cougar... this is no big deal.... even SMU does that for students... and we know how most feel about them. I also understand the issue of students calling hospitals.. but EVERY other school has a large published list of their affiliate hospitals... right?

As for Jacket.. not everyone here is starting first.. there is a large number of potential 3-5th semester transfer hopefuls.. that UMHS is really trying to ccourt right now. However, their lack of transparency is stopping a lot from transferring there. The only reason they are getting students right now, is because they have loans..which may be gone at anytime if Citibank doesn't get back on track.

[Rick_Springfield]

pvttimhall- It is not true that "the only reason [UMHS] is getting students right now, is because they have loans..." I am self-pay, have excellent grades and experience and could have gone to a more established Carib school but chose UMHS based on the reputation of the admin, professors for 5th semester, all green clinicals, business model, etc. I know several people who either attend UMHS now or will be attending this May who are also self-pay and chose UMHS for similar reasons.

[WSUCougar]

Cougar... this is no big deal.... even SMU does that for students... and we know how most feel about them. I also understand the issue of students calling hospitals.. but EVERY other school has a large published list of their affiliate hospitals... right?

As for Jacket.. not everyone here is starting first.. there is a large number of potential 3-5th semester transfer hopefuls.. that UMHS is really trying to ccourt right now. However, their lack of transparency is stopping a lot from transferring there. The only reason they are getting students right now, is because they have loans..which may be gone at anytime if Citibank doesn't get back on track.

Almost half of my class right now are "self-pay" students, so although the Citibank loan did catch the eye for a lot of people to come here (including myself :cool:)..... it obviously was not the only reason.

As for the VP, Provost, and conference call with the President that we had on Friday..... It may not have sounded like a big deal to you..... BUT to us (12 5th semester students) this was a HUGE deal. We now know EXACTLY what hospitals we can rotate at, and how grading works, and how everything falls into place once Clinicals start.

I don't know how more transparent they can get..... UMHS has said all along that we have 300-600 GREEN Clinical Rotation Spots right now, that are ready to go. This was then verified last friday with what we saw. There are no Blue rotations, and they are ALL Green. The only more transparent that UMHS can be, is if you guys knew the exact hospitals. But why would that keep a student from not transferring.

Isn't the most important thing to know for us, is that whether or not they have plenty of clinical spots, and if they're green???

UMHS states that their rotations are Green, and that they have plenty of spots open = no wait times in between rotations. To me.... last semester.... as long as I heard that there were plenty of Green spots availale, then that's all that I needed to hear.

Take SMU for instance.... yes, their transparent about where their spots are.... BUT..... 1) they have students there, whereas UMHS doesn't, and 2) it doesn't matter anyways for the students, because clinicals are so bogged down right now..... that very few students get to select where they want to rotate at, instead they just take what they can get....... to avoid a long wait. Here, we have more options, and can be a little selective in where we want to go.

[pvttimhall]

Almost half of my class right now are "self-pay" students, so although the Citibank loan did catch the eye for a lot of people to come here (including myself :cool:)..... it obviously was not the only reason.

As for the VP, Provost, and conference call with the President that we had on Friday..... It may not have sounded like a big deal to you..... BUT to us (12 5th semester students) this was a HUGE deal. We now know EXACTLY what hospitals we can rotate at, and how grading works, and how everything falls into place once Clinicals start.

I don't know how more transparent they can get..... UMHS has said all along that we have 300-600 GREEN Clinical Rotation Spots right now, that are ready to go. This was then verified last friday with what we saw. There are no Blue rotations, and they are ALL Green. The only more transparent that UMHS can be, is if you guys knew the exact hospitals. But why would that keep a student from not transferring.

Isn't the most important thing to know for us, is that whether or not they have plenty of clinical spots, and if they're green???

UMHS states that their rotations are Green, and that they have plenty of spots open = no wait times in between rotations. To me.... last semester.... as long as I heard that there were plenty of Green spots availale, then that's all that I needed to hear.

Take SMU for instance.... yes, their transparent about where their spots are.... BUT..... 1) they have students there, whereas UMHS doesn't, and 2) it doesn't matter anyways for the students, because clinicals are so bogged down right now..... that very few students get to select where they want to rotate at, instead they just take what they can get....... to avoid a long wait. Here, we have more options, and can be a little selective in where we want to go.


Not trying to continue this much further, give UMHS 10 year.. like SMU, and I am sure their clinicals will be bogged down a little more. It is a good advantage for students RIGHT NOW. However, SMU has added new sites recently (all green), so I am sure this will improve the clinical situation.

I this UMHS is going to be a great school, and probably is fairly good right now. They have a lot of potential and I wish the school the best. I was just saying that it is hard for many to transfer, without knowing about rotations. They won't even tell anyone which rotations they have in each area. From contacts I have, I found that there are only 2 cores in the South East through UMHS. It would not be good if someone transferred into 5th semester because the school says.. "we have green rotations in Atlanta", to only find out it is only two.. and they have to go somewhere else for the rest of their rotations.

At least you know when you go to other schools which rotations they have at each site.. yes.. you may have to wait to get all your cores there, but you know you can get them there BEFORE you go.. and yes.. things change.. trust me.. I know. SMU has lost so many sites I wanted to go to since I started, I can't even count them anymore. And just in case.. I am not taking up for SMU.. I hate the way they do things.. but hey.. I made my choice, so I have to live with that.

[WSUCougar]

Not trying to continue this much further, give UMHS 10 year.. like SMU, and I am sure their clinicals will be bogged down a little more. It is a good advantage for students RIGHT NOW. However, SMU has added new sites recently (all green), so I am sure this will improve the clinical situation.

I this UMHS is going to be a great school, and probably is fairly good right now. They have a lot of potential and I wish the school the best. I was just saying that it is hard for many to transfer, without knowing about rotations. They won't even tell anyone which rotations they have in each area. From contacts I have, I found that there are only 2 cores in the South East through UMHS. It would not be good if someone transferred into 5th semester because the school says.. "we have green rotations in Atlanta", to only find out it is only two.. and they have to go somewhere else for the rest of their rotations.

At least you know when you go to other schools which rotations they have at each site.. yes.. you may have to wait to get all your cores there, but you know you can get them there BEFORE you go.. and yes.. things change.. trust me.. I know. SMU has lost so many sites I wanted to go to since I started, I can't even count them anymore. And just in case.. I am not taking up for SMU.. I hate the way they do things.. but hey.. I made my choice, so I have to live with that.

Fair Enough.... I can see your side of things

I guess it just all depends on what a Med Students priorities are in terms of clinicals. For instance..... I don't care if the Green Sites are in the southeast, midwest, northeast, etc just as long as they have em, and they have plenty of them.... If it means that I can only do 2 rotations in a hospital and then I have to move to another spot.... I really don't care... just as long as there's not a huge gap in between them.

I think that we can both agree that SMU got bogged down in clinicals because they accepted too many students, than they had clinical spots. Heck.... I know of an SMU student in rotations right now that has two Ross transfers with him, who transferred straight into clinicals. Meanwhile SMU students are waiting..... What's up with that??? So, UMHS is definitely in control in terms of not bogging down clinicals. Only time will tell I guess, but I'm a lot less worried about my future here at UMHS, than I was at SMU.... That's for sure... You've got a very solid Admin running this school, with a very efficient staff along with them.

[Baditude]

I would consider a transfer into 3rd/4th year simply for the loans as I have all honors and can not finish the 2 cores I have left because this is my 2nd semester with out loans. I am not going to even look further if I don't have solid info on what hospitals and what states so I can verify "Green" status and not get the ** SMU handed out about the family umbrella which no longer exists. I wish this school was more forth coming with clinical info.
I am already more than a year behind my original class because of the whole green issue and huge gaps between my rotations due to back log.

[UMHS]

As our policies now stand, a student of another medical school would not be able to transfer into the third or four years directly. Transfer students are required, at a minimum, to transfer into the fifth semester. In some cases, transfer students are required to trnsfer into a lower semester than fifth. It's not that we don't want you, Baditude, but our policies would not allow the transfer that you want.

[epidural]

Could someone comment on whether UMHS has any sites where all the cores can be done at a single location/area/city. For all the talk about transparency it would be nice to at least get the name of ONE hospital with such a setup.

What is UMHS's weekly rate for outside electives?

I am still undecided between MUA and UMHS but some questions still remain unanswered.

[WSUCougar]

What is UMHS's weekly rate for outside electives?

Weekly rate = FREE (Its included in the tuition)

AND.... UMHS does the dirty work you in setting up your electives. None of this "ohhhh you just find it on your own, and we'll give you $130/week towards it, PLUS charge you full tuition. You simply tell UMHS that you would like to do an elective in a certain specialty, at a certain hospital, and then UMHS tries to make it happen for you. Does it guarantee that you'll get that elective = NO, but they sure will try for you.

[epidural]

Weekly rate = FREE (Its included in the tuition)

AND.... UMHS does the dirty work you in setting up your electives. None of this "ohhhh you just find it on your own, and we'll give you $130/week towards it, PLUS charge you full tuition. You simply tell UMHS that you would like to do an elective in a certain specialty, at a certain hospital, and then UMHS tries to make it happen for you. Does it guarantee that you'll get that elective = NO, but they sure will try for you.

ooh, very nice.

Are the green sites actually green, or are they under the 'family practice' umbrella (because that isn't good enough in a lot of states).

[MDisME]

ooh, very nice.

Are the green sites actually green, or are they under the 'family practice' umbrella (because that isn't good enough in a lot of states).

I think they were saying that only one location in Chicago was like that and that the rest are actually green book.

[WSUCougar]

I think they were saying that only one location in Chicago was like that and that the rest are actually green book.

Correct.

Chicago is under the Family Practice Umbrella

Everything else is ALL GREEN

[epidural]

Correct.

Chicago is under the Family Practice Umbrella

Everything else is ALL GREEN

Jackson Park I assume. I want to avoid all that family practice umbrella gimmick. From reading SMU's forum they seem to have way too much of that.

[joe soap]

Ok...where exactly are these places folks, if people want to attend UMHS then this should be made available.

[dash]

Yo, anyone going to Whips Cross??? let me know, I would like to hear from somebody there.

[joe soap]

Dash, seeing that it is no secret that UMHS has sites could you post them here as MUA students have done with our sites...thnx

[WSUCougar]

Yo, anyone going to Whips Cross??? let me know, I would like to hear from somebody there.

Nope.... nobody is heading there yet. Everyone from my class is staying in the states.

[dash]

Hey Joe,
The list was presented in a teleconference last semester. I honestly can't remember all of the specific hospitals. I'm interested in this hospital in London Whipps Cross b/c its supposed to be a very good one, like in the top 5 hospitals of the country. I can't remember the specific words Dr. T used but he spoke very highly of this hospital which definitely turned my ears up, the man has been in medicine longer than I've been alive. Just concerned about the cost of living in London :shock:
I think it would be an awesome experience to live in London for a year or two and see medicine from the UK perspective.

I should get the list sometime next semester. So if your nice to me, I guess I might be willing to share.

MUA clinicals were posted?? where?? I have friends that finished the 5th at MUA last semester and would love to know their options.

[joe soap]

MUA clinicals were posted?? where?? I have friends that finished the 5th at MUA last semester and would love to know their options.

Took me less than 30 seconds to find....no secret....so cough up the UMHS list. Plus all Med 5s get the updated list each semester.

http://www.valuemd.com/mua-nevis-medical-school-clinicals/174432-clinical-rotation-sites.html

[WSUCougar]

Took me less than 30 seconds to find....no secret....so cough up the UMHS list. Plus all Med 5s get the updated list each semester.

http://www.valuemd.com/mua-nevis-medical-school-clinicals/174432-clinical-rotation-sites.html

Why do you care?

Are you thinking of transferring here or something.

[dash]

hahaha....Joe's dyin to find out so they can try and steal these sites from umhs....lol:catfight:

[WSUCougar]

Took me less than 30 seconds to find....no secret....so cough up the UMHS list. Plus all Med 5s get the updated list each semester.

http://www.valuemd.com/mua-nevis-medical-school-clinicals/174432-clinical-rotation-sites.html

As another side note........ I don't think that posts on VMD really count for MUA posting their clinical sites. Especially, when VMD is definitely not the "official" voice of MUA

[kula]

Took me less than 30 seconds to find....no secret....so cough up the UMHS list. Plus all Med 5s get the updated list each semester.

http://www.valuemd.com/mua-nevis-medical-school-clinicals/174432-clinical-rotation-sites.html

Yea, why r u soo persistent in finding the list???
If you are interested in transferring, just get that info from the admin office, why do you keep asking ppl on this board to "cough it up"? Its a long list....and you just have to call the admin yourself to get it.....
If you're not interested in transferring...maybe your just waiting for a reason to give another negative comment about UMHS again.....cause that's what it seems like you like doing....

[joe soap]

Why do you care?

Are you thinking of transferring here or something.

Dude, very immature answer....I expect more of you, why the secret? The guy was asking where MUA had its sites posted...he asked~ I led him to the water so to speak. Why are you guys so defensive about your sites?

[joe soap]

hahaha....Joe's dyin to find out so they can try and steal these sites from umhs....lol:catfight:
I would think it interesting that there has been so much hype made about the clinicals (especially WSUCougar), but ZERO proof of it. I have my clinicals and I am happy with MUA, it has a great reputation, a very tough curriculum where unfortunately people fail and transfer, they then spout all kinds of hate and vile about the place. That peeps me off, because it is their lack not the schools fault. Man-up and admit your shortcomings and failures and move on. Dissing the place aint helping you, there are so many people achieving success at MUA.

You made the suggestion that MUA 5th termers did not know where the sites are ~ total bull, you asked where they had been posted, I showed you a link to answer your question. The fact is there is no secret, our sites are plastered all over the internet for all to see, whether MUA officially did it or not is moot, the students have no qualms about posting the lists. Why dont you? :confused:

[joe soap]

As another side note........ I don't think that posts on VMD really count for MUA posting their clinical sites. Especially, when VMD is definitely not the "official" voice of MUA

....then post your list seeing that there is no official tone to it....

[WSUCougar]

Dude, very immature answer....I expect more of you, why the secret? The guy was asking where MUA had its sites posted...he asked~ I led him to the water so to speak. Why are you guys so defensive about your sites?

Come on man..... "immature", that's a bit much.

The fact of the matter, is that very few schools "officially" list their clinical sites. You want to call UMHS out for not listing their sites, when MUA doesn't even do it...... so why the bashing, when your very school practices the same approach. Just because some students posted them on VMD, doesn't take away from the fact that the school doesn't list them themselves.

Like I said before, there's absolutely no "secrecy" to our clinical sites. Every class during 5th semester is given a clinical packet that lists every rotation, and its affiliated hospital.

I don't list them, because what's in it for me? Why should I care if their listed or not, when I already know them (along with all my classmates, and other 5th semester students).

The only question I had for you, was why do you care so much about it. Anytime someone even mentions clinicals, you immediately respond wanting to know the sites. Are you not in clinicals for MUA?

[joe soap]

Dude, stop deflecting. MUA is not the issue. People are interested in your sites because you came on here and shouted it from the rooftops about the 600 spots and all green by specialty (are they??). Now when people, like me, ask where these places are, all you can do is deflect and get peeved at me. Yes, I am happy with my clinicals at MUA to answer your Q, not that it has anything to do with the discussion. I read about "all" these people transfering over to UMHS for clinicals, hence my interest in WHY, what is it offering thats so much better! Is this not a fair question to ask? No use calling the school they all give out the same rehearsed answer. So I ask the students, like you and others that attend to cough up the facts.
We had a girl/guy spew all kinds of warnings about MUA on our forum and who knows where else, only to find out she ended up transfering to a crappy school with the exact same green by umbrella clinical that she was warning about. SO yea I do get peeved when people, like you, come on here and talk up a particular school, but when asked "show me the money" they all deflect to the "well your school doesnt do it crap...so why should we" ....and thus never answer the question. Hey, you know what, it really isnt worth the time for me to keep asking, when for whatever reason you aint going to answer. Therefore, I will summise that your clinicals are not better than any other carib school.

[WSUCougar]

Dude, stop deflecting. MUA is not the issue. People are interested in your sites because you came on here and shouted it from the rooftops about the 600 spots and all green by specialty (are they??). Now when people, like me, ask where these places are, all you can do is deflect and get peeved at me. Yes, I am happy with my clinicals at MUA to answer your Q, not that it has anything to do with the discussion. I read about "all" these people transfering over to UMHS for clinicals, hence my interest in WHY, what is it offering thats so much better! Is this not a fair question to ask? No use calling the school they all give out the same rehearsed answer. So I ask the students, like you and others that attend to cough up the facts.
We had a girl/guy spew all kinds of warnings about MUA on our forum and who knows where else, only to find out she ended up transfering to a crappy school with the exact same green by umbrella clinical that she was warning about. SO yea I do get peeved when people, like you, come on here and talk up a particular school, but when asked "show me the money" they all deflect to the "well your school doesnt do it crap...so why should we" ....and thus never answer the question. Hey, you know what, it really isnt worth the time for me to keep asking, when for whatever reason you aint going to answer. Therefore, I will summise that your clinicals are not better than any other carib school.

I definitely wouldn't classify myself as getting "peeved" by this issue, because it doesn't effect me.

I was just simply wondering about your interest into wanting to know where all the sites are....... that's all..... it was just a question.

I brought your school into the mix, because you made numerous statements, asking why the UMHS Admin is keeping their sites a secret, when your school is doing nothing different than mine. The only difference is that, your classmates have posted the sites on VMD, and mine have not. That's all.

Students obviously can post the sites on here if they want, but I'm not going to be the one that does. During our clinical meeting, we were asked to keep the list to ourselves, and I respected that, hence...... I didn't post it on here.

What I can tell you though..... is that if my classmates in Maine thought the sites were a load of junk...... that they would have come on this Forum and lit this school's clinical sites up like a Christmas Tree.....;)

P.S..... you are correct though..... I have spent some posts on here acting like a Cheerleader for UMHS (skirt and all...... sigh......) so I should have acted more Professional in that manner, and chose better wording. Its just that from Jan - May..... I was all jacked up on Monster Energy Drinks while studying for the Step........

[kula]

joe soap: You're taking this stuff waay to seriously, just calm down.
No-body said that we have better clinicals than other carib schools....at least I don't recall anyone saying it here.........listen, since you know soo many MUAers that transferred to UMHS, why don't u just give one of your buddies a call and ask them for the list, geeez.......don't you have better things to do?:roll:

[joe soap]

I definitely wouldn't classify myself as getting "peeved" by this issue, because it doesn't effect me.

I was just simply wondering about your interest into wanting to know where all the sites are....... that's all..... it was just a question.

I brought your school into the mix, because you made numerous statements, asking why the UMHS Admin is keeping their sites a secret, when your school is doing nothing different than mine. The only difference is that, your classmates have posted the sites on VMD, and mine have not. That's all.

Students obviously can post the sites on here if they want, but I'm not going to be the one that does. During our clinical meeting, we were asked to keep the list to ourselves, and I respected that, hence...... I didn't post it on here.

What I can tell you though..... is that if my classmates in Maine thought the sites were a load of junk...... that they would have come on this Forum and lit this school's clinical sites up like a Christmas Tree.....;)

P.S..... you are correct though..... I have spent some posts on here acting like a Cheerleader for UMHS (skirt and all...... sigh......) so I should have acted more Professional in that manner, and chose better wording. Its just that from Jan - May..... I was all jacked up on Monster Energy Drinks while studying for the Step........

I can understand that ...i know how that feels. No worries! Thanks for the response.

[joe soap]

joe soap: You're taking this s**t waay to seriously, just calm down.
No-body said that we have better clinicals than other carib schools....at least I don't recall anyone saying it here.........listen, since you know soo many MUAers that transferred to UMHS, why don't u just give one of your buddies a call and ask them for the list, geeez.......don't you have better things to do?:roll:

I said i read about all these people transfering...I personally know of none. This was my point ...people say ALL these people are jumping ship, I have not seen this. The only people that I saw jumping ship to other schools from MUA failed. Period.

[dash]

thats funny...I know several MUA students from the med5 class last semester that passed classes all the way through AND passed the comp shelf. Transferred to UMHS for the availability of loans and the availability of clinical spots. Besides the fact that certain former and current MUA administrators treated students poorly. Thats the real reason for the exodous...I am one of many. Seems like this keeps coming up in too many threads :crazy:

[WSUCougar]

I said i read about all these people transfering...I personally know of none. This was my point ...people say ALL these people are jumping ship, I have not seen this. The only people that I saw jumping ship to other schools from MUA failed. Period.

I personally spoke to several MUA students last semester on the phone, answering their questions about UMHS and the 5th semester program. I lost touch of them once 5th started, but I did know of about 4-5 that transferred into the 5th semester program. Most of the people I spoke with had already finished 5th semester at MUA, and were therefore repeating 5th at UMHS...

[joe soap]

4-5 is hardly an exodus if that is in fact accurate.

[WSUCougar]

4-5 is hardly an exodus if that is in fact accurate.

I never said it was a mass exodus. I was just verifying that I at least personally knew of 4-5 MUA transfers that are now in UMHS's 5th Semester Class.

I try to stear away from words such as "Mass Exodus", "Sinking Ship", etc :cool:

Because at nearly Every Carib School...... every transfer out, is always canceled out by a transfer coming in....

[joe soap]

thats funny...I know several MUA students from the med5 class last semester that passed classes all the way through AND passed the comp shelf. Transferred to UMHS for the availability of loans and the availability of clinical spots. Besides the fact that certain former and current MUA administrators treated students poorly. Thats the real reason for the exodous...I am one of many. Seems like this keeps coming up in too many threads :crazy:

Well then that might be a really bad decision, i'll take a crappy loan and finish med school over NO LOANS any day.

[dash]

So So tired of this topic. 4-5 students from MUA's med5 class transfered into UMHS 5th semester. There were many more that transferred into med2,3,4 at UMHS.

[joe soap]

So So tired of this topic. 4-5 students from MUA's med5 class transfered into UMHS 5th semester. There were many more that transferred into med2,3,4 at UMHS.

If you are tired ...stop posting. What are those transfer students going to do for funding?

[jackets5]

If you are tired ...stop posting. What are those transfer students going to do for funding?

First, supposedly Citibank is going to honor the loans for the next 2 semesters. So that leaves the school time to work things out. so people who transfered will be fine for now until they work something out. Believe me if SMU, MUA etc can get Ed-invest. Im sure Dr. Ross can figure out something a little better than that.

[kula]

some of us have our Citi Loan for another 3 semesters too......

[dash]

my bad...I guess I didn't explain what I'm really tired of, which is someone from MUA coming on our clinical forum and being SO NEGATIVE!!!!!

[joe soap]

my bad...I guess I didn't explain what I'm really tired of, which is someone from MUA coming on our clinical forum and being SO NEGATIVE!!!!!

Well then, you should check out the MUA forum where many former students love to talk trash about nothing in particular. Most of which is created by themselves. At least I ask pertinent questions. Questions that to you may seem negative, but Im guessing that is a way of deflecting the real issue at hand.

[jackets5]

Well then, you should check out the MUA forum where many former students love to talk trash about nothing in particular. Most of which is created by themselves. At least I ask pertinent questions. Questions that to you may seem negative, but Im guessing that is a way of deflecting the real issue at hand.

no not really you are just being a pain. The people who transfered to UMHS for as you put it the famous loans. Still have them for the next 2-3 semesters. By then im sure Dr. ross will have something figured out. He managed to get citibank to lend for what is going to be over a year in this economy, he will find something else. I have more faith in this admin than in SMU and MUA (from what ive heard). They also have a institutional loan program which they are putting together. Dont worry about us, were all fine and very happy with the choice of coming to UMHS. Tell us the truth UMHS rejected you and you are not happy about it.

[dash]

amen. Also JS....since its goin on at the MUA forum you got to bring it to ours??

[joe soap]

no not really you are just being a pain. The people who transfered to UMHS for as you put it the famous loans. Still have them for the next 2-3 semesters. By then im sure Dr. ross will have something figured out. He managed to get citibank to lend for what is going to be over a year in this economy, he will find something else. I have more faith in this admin than in SMU and MUA (from what ive heard). They also have a institutional loan program which they are putting together. Dont worry about us, were all fine and very happy with the choice of coming to UMHS. Tell us the truth UMHS rejected you and you are not happy about it.

LOL...nice deflection. Interesting how when people ask questions, like I did (go read my posts) you guys dont answer, you make it personal. Its just a way to avoid the insecurities you may face due to your decision to transfer. UMHS accepts failures from other schools, MUA does not. I may have wanted more information at one stage (I remember asking Cougar Q's about his choice), but in the end I looked at what the advantage would be and to be blunt....nil, nada, nix. It would have been a step down for me. Does it mean that I am not curious about where your clinicals are? Is it wrong to ask? Afterall, there was a big hoora made about it. You tell me.

[dr1955]

Terrible social skills. You are now in time out.

[joe soap]

amen. Also JS....since its goin on at the MUA forum you got to bring it to ours??

Buddy, go reread my questions, its not trash talking, its simply questions. Period. Have fun down there, hope it works out for you.

[WSUCougar]

LOL...nice deflection. Interesting how when people ask questions, like I did (go read my posts) you guys dont answer, you make it personal. Its just a way to avoid the insecurities you may face due to your decision to transfer. UMHS accepts failures from other schools, MUA does not. I may have wanted more information at one stage (I remember asking Cougar Q's about his choice), but in the end I looked at what the advantage would be and to be blunt....nil, nada, nix. It would have been a step down for me. Does it mean that I am not curious about where your clinicals are? Is it wrong to ask? Afterall, there was a big hoora made about it. You tell me.

Come on Joe, let's be honest here. MUA is no SGU, Ross, AUC.... nor is UMHS. I'm sure that UMHS has the same academic criteria as MUA. I have seen it first hand.

I Personally know of 6 of my classmates at SMU that were denied Admission to transfer along with me to UMHS. A couple of them even appealed UMHS's decision, but were still denied Admission.

Then..... in terms of MUA.... I Personally know of 2 of my former classmates at SMU, who failed 3 classes and then transfered to MUA, along with a student at Ross who transferred to MUA because he failed a couple classes at Ross, and didn't want to repeat the Whole Semester over again at Ross (which would have including the classes that he passed already at Ross). This doesn't just happen at MUA, but everywhere else as well. (except the SGU, AUC's of the Carib).

I don't quite understand why you keep saying that I'm "deflecting" when I respond to your posts.

You haven't had any relevant questions about our school. The most relevant questions you've asked, have to deal with what the specific hosptial sites are........

Everything else that you've posted, has been nothing more than your personal opinions about our school. When you make statements that pertain to our school in a negative demeanor, when you are not a student here, how can a UMHS student not help but get defensive about it.

When MUA students post negative statements about MUA on your Board, you react in the same way....... which is taking it personal, and calling them out..... so why the hyprocicy?

[joe soap]

Come on Joe, let's be honest here. MUA is no SGU, Ross, AUC.... nor is UMHS. I'm sure that UMHS has the same academic criteria as MUA. I have seen it first hand.

I Personally know of 6 of my classmates at SMU that were denied Admission to transfer along with me to UMHS. A couple of them even appealed UMHS's decision, but were still denied Admission.

Then..... in terms of MUA.... I Personally know of 2 of my former classmates at SMU, who failed 3 classes and then transfered to MUA, along with a student at Ross who transferred to MUA because he failed a couple classes at Ross, and didn't want to repeat the Whole Semester over again at Ross (which would have including the classes that he passed already at Ross). This doesn't just happen at MUA, but everywhere else as well. (except the SGU, AUC's of the Carib).

I don't quite understand why you keep saying that I'm "deflecting" when I respond to your posts.

You haven't had any relevant questions about our school. The most relevant questions you've asked, have to deal with what the specific hosptial sites are........

Everything else that you've posted, has been nothing more than your personal opinions about our school. When you make statements that pertain to our school in a negative demeanor, when you are not a student here, how can a UMHS student not help but get defensive about it.

When MUA students post negative statements about MUA on your Board, you react in the same way....... which is taking it personal, and calling them out..... so why the hyprocicy?

you are right. I am tired of this too.

[dr1955]

so how are clinical rotations going? have they started? and have you had any questions aboutUMHS?

[WSUCougar]

so how are clinical rotations going? have they started? and have you had any questions aboutUMHS?

Myself, along with 3 of my other classmates start clinicals on Monday in Oklahoma.

Another starts in Chicago (Not at the umbrella site, but at a new site that UMHS just added), some others are starting in Georgia, and one is heading off to the UK.

[DOCplucinski]

Myself, along with 3 of my other classmates start clinicals on Monday in Oklahoma.

Another starts in Chicago (Not at the umbrella site, but at a new site that UMHS just added), some others are starting in Georgia, and one is heading off to the UK.
thank g-d for that, aua is throwing people there now more or less against their will

[WSUCougar]

thank g-d for that, aua is throwing people there now more or less against their will

That sucks! I hope everything works out for those students. Luckily, where it stands right now..... UMHS students only go here, if they specifically request to, so that they're well aware of the "family practice umbrella"

[jjanik]

So since I am learning as I go, what is the "family practice" umbrella?

Thanks,

[IAUPREMED]

Hey WSUcougar..the other site in chicago is Green right? i dont need or want to know specifics but just that its 100% green right? im a 3rd semester at UMHS and hoping to do most my clinicals in chicago..well as much as I can do as long as its all green and none of the family umbrella deal!

[WSUCougar]

Hey WSUcougar..the other site in chicago is Green right? i dont need or want to know specifics but just that its 100% green right? im a 3rd semester at UMHS and hoping to do most my clinicals in chicago..well as much as I can do as long as its all green and none of the family umbrella deal!

Yep, the rotations at this new hospital are Green. I believe it offers 2-3 rotations there. My classmate starts there in a week.

[joemqc]

Hey, guys.. I understand that UMHS is very secretive about its clinical sites but since I just got accepted into the school and I really need to convince my parents the school is legit (I have strong reasons why I need (emphasis on the word need) to come to UMHS. If someone can send me a private message about the sites so I can show it to my dad, this would be greatly, kneeling on the floor appreciated... cause the lady I had talk to my dad on tuesday was really convincing him.. Please, Please help.. I have to go to UMHS or i would be stuck in my house for a year.. . help me out... thanks.. Seems i can't post my email so Private message (PM) would be greatly appreciated.. IF you guys have any ideas on how to convince my parents, please give me any advice..

[dash]

Hey Joe,
From Kansas City myself, I think its great down here and UMHS is a good school. Be more than happy to talk to you or your dad on the phone. Unless your canadian posing from Kansas City.

Send me a msg if you want other info...not giving up any clinical sites though.

[coolest35]

Speaking of which, since there is someone who went to the UK to do rotations, is that option available to everyone? And what about locations like Canada.. any cases of anyone planning to go / have gone to sites there?

[WSUCougar]

Speaking of which, since there is someone who went to the UK to do rotations, is that option available to everyone? And what about locations like Canada.. any cases of anyone planning to go / have gone to sites there?

UK is available to everyone.

We don't have any sites in Canada.

I've had several individuals tell me that it would be impossible for Carib Med Students to do rotations there, due to Canadian Rules regarding clinical rotations for IMG's. I was told that IMG's can do no more than 3 months of rotations in Canada.

[dash]

I heard the same from the dark cannuck. 1 elective and thats it.

[coolest35]

UK is available to everyone.

We don't have any sites in Canada.

I've had several individuals tell me that it would be impossible for Carib Med Students to do rotations there, due to Canadian Rules regarding clinical rotations for IMG's. I was told that IMG's can do no more than 3 months of rotations in Canada.
Oh that sucks, anything close to the border?

Well 3 months, that can be a major term tho can't it?

[sair]

I dont know about that. I have a friend from MUA, who did all their core and electives in canada.

I dont think MUA has any special endorsments from canada. You just have to set them up urself

[coolest35]

I dont know about that. I have a friend from MUA, who did all their core and electives in canada.

I dont think MUA has any special endorsments from canada. You just have to set them up urself
Oh really? That's kind of contradicting what I've read everywhere.. would you be able to confirm this? I'm actually really interested in pursing that option if its possible!

[sair]

This is confirmed, I see the guy everyday and have discussions everyday.

He setup everyone of them here by himself, back to back, no delays. He just graduated a month ago.

[coolest35]

This is confirmed, I see the guy everyday and have discussions everyday.

He setup everyone of them here by himself, back to back, no delays. He just graduated a month ago.
Oh wow, that's real interesting. Is he a member here? I wanted to asking him how he did what he did and all that stuff, if you could ask him how or find a way for me to contact him directly that'd be great!

[dandaman486]

Any cool clincal rotation stories any of the fifth semesters want to share? :)