Saba Rejection Letter

[D.Fish]

Hey everyone,

I just got a rejection letter from Saba, without getting an opportunity at an interview. I applied for the January 2009 class. I had a 2.8 GPA (essentially the same for both cumulative and science), MCAT score of 29R (10 bio, 10 physics, 9 verbal), and tons of extracurricular and volunteer activities... everything from student councils to 4 intramural athletic teams (captain of 2 of them) to volunteer tutoring. I have received awards from my university (University of Toronto) for leadership and dedication to extracurriculars. I had 4 letters of recommendation: one from an MD-PhD-professor, one from a physics professor, one from an English professor, and one from the General Manager of the company I worked at for 2 years.

Was my low GPA enough to scare them? I had one bad year, and I mean seriously bad. Aside from that though, my GPA was about 3.3, and they do say they look at trends in GPA and not just the overall number. Maybe it's because I don't have too much experience working or volunteering in hospitals/clinics? I did volunteer for 3 years in a hospital while in high school.

So I'm wondering, why do you think I didn't get in? GPA, lack of clinical experience, MCAT? I read on some threads here that people suggest calling them... should I do that?? If so, what is my goal, to push them for an interview? I really want to get into Saba!

Thanks for your help


Edit: when I say "worked at for 2 years", I mean full time for 2 summers and part time for the school year in between them. I didn't take any years off from school (I'm 21).

[kryptik]

a lot of students have had the same experience; getting rejected without interview (search the saba forum), maybe the class is full, so try for May 09 and also look into other schools, dont put all your eggs in one basket, good luck

[rick james]

Hey everyone,

I just got a rejection letter from Saba, without getting an opportunity at an interview. I applied for the January 2009 class. I had a 2.8 GPA (essentially the same for both cumulative and science), MCAT score of 29R (10 bio, 10 physics, 9 verbal), and tons of extracurricular and volunteer activities... everything from student councils to 4 intramural athletic teams (captain of 2 of them) to volunteer tutoring. I have received awards from my university (University of Toronto) for leadership and dedication to extracurriculars. I had 4 letters of recommendation: one from an MD-PhD-professor, one from a physics professor, one from an English professor, and one from the General Manager of the company I worked at for 2 years.

Was my low GPA enough to scare them? I had one bad year, and I mean seriously bad. Aside from that though, my GPA was about 3.3, and they do say they look at trends in GPA and not just the overall number. Maybe it's because I don't have too much experience working or volunteering in hospitals/clinics? I did volunteer for 3 years in a hospital while in high school.

So I'm wondering, why do you think I didn't get in? GPA, lack of clinical experience, MCAT? I read on some threads here that people suggest calling them... should I do that?? If so, what is my goal, to push them for an interview? I really want to get into Saba!

Thanks for your help



Hello,

I would definitely suggest you call the office at Gardner and present your case.

Usually when you volunteer at a hospital, they look for clinically relevant volunteering experience. If you worked at the gift shop, for example, you possess no experience in the clinical realm.

I have a couple of friends who did not get accepted to saba last year for the january semester with a 2.8 GPA. I believe it gets more competitive every year, so it might be a challenge for you to get that interview. Your extracurriculars are more impressive than my friends' though.

Either way, call Gardner and plead your case.

Best of luck.

[D.Fish]

Thanks kryptik and rick james.

And rick james, no I didn't work in the flower shop haha. I was at the geriatrics and continuing care complexes... helping brain injury victims by talking to them and trying to teach them some motor skills that they lost after their accidents... I explained this in my personal statement, so they definitely know what my role was.

Anyone else have any input??

[kryptik]

for more info on the topic follow this thread http://www.valuemd.com/saba-university-school-medicine/158930-rejection-letter.html

[woods]

Sorry to hear you weren't accepted.
How many years of university have you completed? Have you finished a degree? If not, I suggest going back to school, completing some more courses (and doing well in them) and finish your degree. You are only 21 and have got lots of time! From what I was told, they will take students with degrees over those without one.
Another thing to consider, are you sure the individuals who provided a reference for you gave you good references?
I would call Gardner and ask why you were not awarded an interview and ask how you can improve on your application. For some reason, they have already decided not to give you an interview; I don't think that is going to change by you calling them. But if you find out what caused you not to get the interview you can work on it and apply again in the future.
Best of luck

[D.Fish]

Sorry to hear you weren't accepted.
How many years of university have you completed? Have you finished a degree? If not, I suggest going back to school, completing some more courses (and doing well in them) and finish your degree. You are only 21 and have got lots of time! From what I was told, they will take students with degrees over those without one.
Another thing to consider, are you sure the individuals who provided a reference for you gave you good references?


Hey woods... yeah I just finished my B.Sc.Hons in May 2008. About the references... I was thinking that could be the problem, but I'm sure 2 of them were very good, and I'm quite sure another was good. One of them may not have been excellent, because the reference didn't know me that well (outside of me being in her class), but I highly doubt it was "bad". Can a reference that isn't amazing hurt your application? By that I mean could it make the admissions committee think "why didn't he get a better reference?" ?

[DOCplucinski]

i really doubt it has anything to do with any of your extracurricular activities. everyone has done this and that, volunteered/ worked here and there but the main thing when it comes to admission into any medical school is separating yourself from other applicants. since you weren't granted an interview, there must be something in your application that didn't separate you and you need to find that out. i would suggest, as others said, calling their admissions and finding out why. with that, you show you're still interested in the school and willing to improve your file.

do just that, find out what happened, improve you file and begin applying to other schools. good luck

[woods]

Can a reference that isn't amazing hurt your application? By that I mean could it make the admissions committee think "why didn't he get a better reference?" ?

I've never been on an admissions committee so I can't answer with certainty as to if a less than "amazing" reference letter would stop you from getting an interview. I definitely think a bad reference letter could do that. When I say bad I don't just mean the referee wrote something unfavorable about you, but also that it comes across that they don't know you, can't say why you would be a excellent candidate for medicine, not the greatest at writing etc. Why did you send so many references? You were only required to send two and sometimes more isn't better.
In the end, all you are going to get from this forum is speculation about why you didn't get an interview. Give Gardner a call and ask - they are still at the office now!

[mario345]

sorry to hear that you couldnt get in...but I think its mainly that your GPA is a bit low...your MCATs are good enough
but I dont know too many people who got in with a less than 3.0...and is that a 2.8 on american scale or canadian scale?...there is a difference
what was your overall %?

[DoctorORG]

wow! I am in the same boat as you are... I graduate from University of Toronto with the same GPA and same MCAT scores... applying for sept 2009 though... now I'm scared as hell!! I had a really bad first year (due to UofT pressure, and the 4000 students in first year)... but I managed to get 3.3, 3.7 and 3.7... I am currently taking 4 courses to bring up my gpa to maybe 2.9 (!?!) ... this is so depressing that they don't consider which school you've gone to ... ah mannnnn...
I wish UofT would let us repeat courses! or at least do a postbacc program... :bored:old stories

[mario345]

wow! I am in the same boat as you are... I graduate from University of Toronto with the same GPA and same MCAT scores... applying for sept 2009 though... now I'm scared as hell!! I had a really bad first year (due to UofT pressure, and the 4000 students in first year)... but I managed to get 3.3, 3.7 and 3.7... I am currently taking 4 courses to bring up my gpa to maybe 2.9 (!?!) ... this is so depressing that they don't consider which school you've gone to ... ah mannnnn...
I wish UofT would let us repeat courses! or at least do a postbacc program... :bored:old stories
you can do a 5th yr right?

[Experienced]

Maybe the admissions committee is coming to its senses and not admitting every Canadian applicant with a pulse. Sorry, I just couldn't resist. ;)

E.

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[DoctorORG]

Maybe the admissions committee is coming to its senses and not admitting every Canadian applicant with a pulse. Sorry, I just couldn't resist. ;)

E.

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whatever... canadian students do great, and are still doing great in all american and carribean medical schools... its just that we dont even license Harvard graduates;) that should mean something to you:rolleyes:

[DoctorORG]

you can do a 5th yr right?

yup...you can

[D.Fish]

I dont know too many people who got in with a less than 3.0...and is that a 2.8 on american scale or canadian scale?...there is a difference
what was your overall %?

It's a 2.8 on the Canadian scale... what exactly is the difference? On paper, I think it's easier to get a higher GPA in Canada (ie. a lower % gets you a higher GPA), but in reality they mark much harder than the States. UofT is a little different than some other Canadian schools in that a 4.0 is 85% and above.

And my overall % was 74.9%...

[JLea]

It's a 2.8 on the Canadian scale... what exactly is the difference? On paper, I think it's easier to get a higher GPA in Canada (ie. a lower % gets you a higher GPA), but in reality they mark much harder than the States. UofT is a little different than some other Canadian schools in that a 4.0 is 85% and above.

And my overall % was 74.9%...


It is highly unlikely that you will get into medical school with a 74.9%. It's time that you think about doing some postgraduate work and making straight A's. That should show that you are currently able to handle academic challenges.

74.9%? That's below the pass/fail line at Saba! You didn't get an interview?

[JLea]

Maybe the admissions committee is coming to its senses and not admitting every Canadian applicant with a pulse. Sorry, I just couldn't resist. ;)

E.

-


Getting testy about Canadia? (Yes I know I spelled it that way...)

What happened E? Did you step on a Canadian land mine or simething? :rolleyes:

[D.Fish]

It is highly unlikely that you will get into medical school with a 74.9%. It's time that you think about doing some postgraduate work and making straight A's. That should show that you are currently able to handle academic challenges.

74.9%? That's below the pass/fail line at Saba! You didn't get an interview?

Hey JLea... what do you mean by "that's below the pass/fail line"? You mean when you're a med student there?

And no, I didn't get an interview.

[DoctorORG]

It is highly unlikely that you will get into medical school with a 74.9%. It's time that you think about doing some postgraduate work and making straight A's. That should show that you are currently able to handle academic challenges.

74.9%? That's below the pass/fail line at Saba! You didn't get an interview?



you say you have to have 3.0, then you say 74.9% wont get you anywhere... 74.9% is a B and it's a 3.3 !!!!

and the fail/pass at Saba has nothing to do with the overall undergraduate average!!

2.8 is a 67%-70%, plus I believe they still look at trends... there are people who did bad in first year, but did pretty well in the following years... afterall, if someone got straight A's from the beginning, and got 37 on MCATs, they would apply to Harvard, not the carribean...

some posts here are just purely objective really

[mario345]

It is highly unlikely that you will get into medical school with a 74.9%. It's time that you think about doing some postgraduate work and making straight A's. That should show that you are currently able to handle academic challenges.

74.9%? That's below the pass/fail line at Saba! You didn't get an interview?
Actually, I got into SABA with a 75% on the dot, and I haven't failed a single class so far, and overall, I am doing pretty well.
Please remember that in Canadian schools, the averages for most courses are 67-70%, compared to an 83-86% in U.S. (I went to UT). Our grading system is different, and for us, a B is 70+. So just because a Canadian student gets a 70%, doesnt mean that he is incompetent. It means that he went through a very tough system (and many times, UNFAIRLY tough). And by the way, if you get a 75%+ on the actual USMLE, you break a 95+ easily. So there goes your theory of handling 'academic challenges' out of the window if you have a 75%. There is a difference in grading system and inflation is present, which is widely accepted and known to all the committees.

D. Fish, you should call them, and explain them this situation. I had a similar problem, and I wrote a letter explaining it to them. SABA admin are a very cooperative and a nice bunch as long as you know how to be respectful and polite. Worst comes to worst, you will upgrade for one year...just rock that year, and you will have a better chance. Best of luck.

[mario345]

Hey JLea... what do you mean by "that's below the pass/fail line"? You mean when you're a med student there?

And no, I didn't get an interview.
JLea was actually kicked out of Saba because he failed too many classes after supposedly getting a 4.0 in his undergrad. Go figure.
By the way, I went to UT as well, so I know what you are talking about. The way I 'corrected' my GPA was based on an AMSAS scale, which converted a LETTER GRADE at UT so a GPA grade on AMSAS scale.
For example, a B- on UT is a 70-73%; but a B on AMSAS is 3.0. However, a 70-73 at SABA is Fail.
There is OBVIOUS discrepancy in these scales and grades, and that is why it is best to call them and re-convert your GPA after taking into account everything.

[JLea]

Actually, I never failed a class at Saba. I went home for medical reasons and was placed on academic probation. In third semester, I broke my foot and missed too many days of Neuro. Because I was on academic probaton from going home in second semester, I would have been dismissed from Saba. Not because of grades, but because of missing too many days of Neuro after having had to take a medical leave of absence. (Talk about setting a good example for being compassionate!) I chose to transfer to Sint Eustatius because of this.

I have never said that Saba University School of Medicine is not a good school. On the contrary, I have always maintained that I feel that it is among the best in the Caribbean, academically. On the other hand, I personally believe that it is being run very poorly and that things can and should be changed. I'd love to still be in Saba. Unfortunately, Administration and I did not see eye to eye. (This started in the first week of school when another student and I raised money to put in a wireless router in our first semester classroom because the administration refused to do so... from there things went downhill.)

My beef since leaving Saba for Statia has been that I was told that I would not pass Neuro because of absences; while at least one other student in the class missed far more days than I did and was passed. Additionally, two of my "absences" were in lab when the "TA" began calling roll five minutes early and was past my name when I hobbled in on crutches; before the scheduled start of the class. Administration refused to correct this problem.

So, Mario345, you want to post slanderous accusations about me which have no basis in fact? If you're going to do that, why don't you reveal who you are? I post under my own name. Haven't you got the intestinal fortitude to do the same?

My first inclination is to wish that the time-space continua of both yourself and a Canadian landmine come into very close proximity... but, alas, I did well in Psych and Ethics and I learned to be a little more compassionate. Therefore, I hope that you do well in school and secure the residency for which you long. I wish you success in all you do, my friend.

The truth of the matter is, D.Fish, that you probably will not be accepted into medical school if your average in undergrad is below 75%. (We have to accept that others who claim that their averages were such and that they were accepted into medical school are telling the truth, so, evidently, it is possible to be accepted with grades such as those.) As with Mario345, I wish you success in all you do.

Now, go take on the day!

[JLea]

you say you have to have 3.0, then you say 74.9% wont get you anywhere... 74.9% is a B and it's a 3.3 !!!!

and the fail/pass at Saba has nothing to do with the overall undergraduate average!!

2.8 is a 67%-70%, plus I believe they still look at trends... there are people who did bad in first year, but did pretty well in the following years... afterall, if someone got straight A's from the beginning, and got 37 on MCATs, they would apply to Harvard, not the carribean...

some posts here are just purely objective really

If what you say is true about the grading system in Canada, then I stand corrected.

However, from personal experience, I know that going back to school and doing well helps. In the 1980's, I did poorly in undergraduate studies. (Sorry Mario345, I never said that my undergraduate GPA was 4.0... what I truthfully stated was that I did poorly in the 1980's and subsequently returned to another undergraduate program in 2004 and made straight A's. (In fact, I did this while continuing to run my business and support my wife and children.) According to the head of admissions at Saba, it was this return to school with excellent grades that got me an interview.

Therefore, I stand by my original statement that you should probably do some graduate work and make straight A's. This will show the admissions people that you are able to do well academically, now.

[mario345]

It is sad to hear that you were in a tussle with the administration. However, I know I will sound harsh by saying this - and it has nothing to do with lack of compassion or heart - but policies are policies, and there is a reason they are in place. Regardless of what your personal circumstances are; it doesnt matter to the policy-setter, and they could care less about your personal issues. The only thing that matters to them is whether that policy or rule was conformed to or not, and there is a limit to how much one can abuse these policies. Thats the harsh reality these days, and the sooner people accept this and dissolve ANY expectations of kindness from anyone, the better off they will be (for their own sake).
As for you stating your GPA, I remember you being proud of that number in conversation, and I just ran a search on VMD, and its there. Anyhow, that is all irrelevant bickering, and its better not to waste our time with that.
The point is, that there are definite discrepancies in grades between the U.S. and Canada, and I have personally dealt with this issue when I was applying. As I said, just because our numerical numbers are lower, it does NOT mean that we are incompetent compared to U.S. students who on average, came to SABA with a 10-15% NET difference. Its all about inflation of grades, and a different grading system, thats all. Note, I am not trying to say that an average Canadian student is superior because they go through a tougher system, I am saying that it is wrong to judge students based on their percentages only, especially when its a fact that scales are different, criteria for grading is different and course averages are set at a different number. Did you know that, UofT has made policies that a course average CANNOT be more than a 73?, otherwise a professor will have to write a letter and explain to the Administration!? That is what happens in our top schools.
Imagine having averages of U.S. schools as 68%. According to your rule that 'if you have less than a 75% as an applicant, you are not worthy of applying', more than 3/4 of the class would be FAILING. That is not the case for us, Canadian schools have a fail at 50% and an A at 80%, B at 70%, and a C at 60%.
As you can see, just from that there is a 10% pt difference at SABA and undergrad in terms of whole letter grades. There is good 15% difference in averages (from 68% at Univ of Toronto to American schools at 83 ish).
So, you have to account for this HUGE discrepancy. Our friend Mr. Fish probably suffered because he didnt take this into account. Thats all. That is why its best to call them up and clarify things that need to be clarified and modified.

[JLea]

I stand corrected on the differences between Canada and the United States...

It is sad to hear that you were in a tussle with the administration. However, I know I will sound harsh by saying this - and it has nothing to do with lack of compassion or heart - but policies are policies, and there is a reason they are in place. Regardless of what your personal circumstances are; it doesnt matter to the policy-setter, and they could care less about your personal issues. The only thing that matters to them is whether that policy or rule was conformed to or not, and there is a limit to how much one can abuse these policies. Thats the harsh reality these days, and the sooner people accept this and dissolve ANY expectations of kindness from anyone, the better off they will be (for their own sake).


Yes, policies are policies... however, when said policies are applied in diffenent ways to different students, that poses a problem.

There is also the policy in the Student Hadbook we received in first semester that states that if a student who is on academic probation comes back in the next semester and has exemplary academic performance, he or she may be released from academic probation after one semester instead of two. I came back from my medical leave of absence and fit that situation. I asked the dean about petitioning to be released from academic probation. He said that he knew nothing of the policy and I showed him section in the Student Handbook that stated it. Upon seeing that, he told me that the school doesn't recognize that policy.

So, I will say again that the school does not apply its policies equally and fairly to each individual. Some of the policies that are stated in writing are not recognized and different students are held to differing measures.

The Student Handbook (and the former Dean of Students, who has apparently left the island) both stated that absences for medical reasons would be allowed in excess of the official 8 absence cut-off. I believe that we were supposed to be allowed up to 16 absences with a medical excuse. I had 8 absences in Neuro and was told that I would fail the course because I missed more that the 5 absences that the Neuro professor decided that he would allow. I know of one student in the same class who missed many more than 8 absences so he could go back to Canada to interview for a Canadian medical school. He was not failed. (This student also missed many more than the allowed 8 absences in 2nd semester and he was promoted... granted, he had the highest grades in the class... however, the policies are not being implemented equally with all students.)

There was another student in the same Neuro class who had to go home for personal reasons durning 4th block. As far as I know, he did not return to the island until the beginning of this semester. Apparently, he did the same thing in 1st semester. He is still at the school. (He deserves to be there, he is a good student and will make a great physician.)

I hold absolutely no animosity against these students. I am glad for their sakes that they were not dismissed from Saba. My beef is that administration has differing weights and measures for different students, period.

Bottom line - don't make waves with administration, keep your head down and study hard, pass the USMLE and achieve your dreams.

Did I say, don't make waves with administration?

[mario345]

"you stand corrected"? :S
alright...lets hear your reasons.

[JLea]

"you stand corrected"? :S
alright...lets hear your reasons.

I had no idea that a 75% in Canada was so impressive... you stated it so eloquently and now I know. Therefore, I stand corrected. :rolleyes:

[D.Fish]

As you can see, just from that there is a 10% pt difference at SABA and undergrad in terms of whole letter grades. There is good 15% difference in averages (from 68% at Univ of Toronto to American schools at 83 ish).
So, you have to account for this HUGE discrepancy. Our friend Mr. Fish probably suffered because he didnt take this into account. Thats all. That is why its best to call them up and clarify things that need to be clarified and modified.

All of what Mario said regarding the grades is completely correct, for any US students reading this. The only thing I can't verify is the exact number he said for American schools (83ish), because I don't know that for sure. But I do know it is much higher than Canadian schools.

Mario... when you say I didn't take this into account, what do you mean? (I'm not arguing/angry, it's just an honest question!). I understand the grading difference, but I didn't want to mention it to the admissions committee because they certainly know about this already; they surely have already taken it into account.

JLea... yes, a 75% is in fact impressive at UofT. I will list the CLASS averages for my first and second year courses: C+, C+, C+, C+, B-, C, B-, C+, C, C+, C, C+, C+. Keep in mind that a C is 64-66, C+ is 67-69, and B- is 70-72. I am not making any of this up, I will show you a screenshot of the UofT online transcript if you don't believe me! And regarding what Mario said about professors having to explain averages over 73% to the Dean and administration: absolutely true. I in fact had a professor (a very nice one!) who had this happen to him, and he was perplexed and furious about it and told our class about it a few times... haha. He was actually at the meeting (many many years ago) when the administration decided to enact "Grade Adjustment" to ensure the averages Mario talked about.

So it's difficult to use one country's grading to determine if a student from the other country is competitive!

[rdecastro]

Comparing the average of one canadian school to all US schools is irrelevant, and deceptive. What is the average of ALL canadian schools?

Or, compare UofT to say, Harvey Mudd or RIT.

[mario345]

I had no idea that a 75% in Canada was so impressive... you stated it so eloquently and now I know. Therefore, I stand corrected. :rolleyes:
alright. 'i stand corrected' could be taken either way, as in:
1) 'i am right, i stand corrected even after reading what you posted'
2) 'i wasnt not right, i know now, i NOW stand corrected.'

i wasnt sure which one you were referring to. its just linguistics i guess. :p

[mario345]

Comparing the average of one canadian school to all US schools is irrelevant, and deceptive. What is the average of ALL canadian schools?

Or, compare UofT to say, Harvey Mudd or RIT.
you are right, it is deceptive, and i dont think many people have the resources or the data to make that kind of a comparison. i was basing the comparison on the assumption that SABA school utilizes a typical american undergrad type of grading policy.
Regardless of what is the difference between All american schools and all canadian schools, it is known that canadian schools have a different grading schemes ALL TOGETHER when COMPARED TO the U.S. schools all put together.
That has to be taken into account.

[mario345]

All of what Mario said regarding the grades is completely correct, for any US students reading this. The only thing I can't verify is the exact number he said for American schools (83ish), because I don't know that for sure. But I do know it is much higher than Canadian schools.

Mario... when you say I didn't take this into account, what do you mean? (I'm not arguing/angry, it's just an honest question!). I understand the grading difference, but I didn't want to mention it to the admissions committee because they certainly know about this already; they surely have already taken it into account.

JLea... yes, a 75% is in fact impressive at UofT. I will list the CLASS averages for my first and second year courses: C+, C+, C+, C+, B-, C, B-, C+, C, C+, C, C+, C+. Keep in mind that a C is 64-66, C+ is 67-69, and B- is 70-72. I am not making any of this up, I will show you a screenshot of the UofT online transcript if you don't believe me! And regarding what Mario said about professors having to explain averages over 73% to the Dean and administration: absolutely true. I in fact had a professor (a very nice one!) who had this happen to him, and he was perplexed and furious about it and told our class about it a few times... haha. He was actually at the meeting (many many years ago) when the administration decided to enact "Grade Adjustment" to ensure the averages Mario talked about.

So it's difficult to use one country's grading to determine if a student from the other country is competitive!

i wasnt mocking you. i was just saying that maybe taking into account this fact would have helped. obviously if you give SABA your numerical GPA from UT, it will be much lower that what its actually 'worth', if lets say you were in an american school. does that make any sense? lol
what i did, is I transferred all my letter grades: like B- was a 73% at UT...to a corresponding letter grade on the AMSAS scale, and then found out the GPA. Calculated the cumulative GPA and then thats what I reported. Of course I explained every single calculation. I remember, my 75% at UT became a 3.5, and thats what I applied with. Ofcourse I reported both % score and the GPA score.

[D.Fish]

Comparing the average of one canadian school to all US schools is irrelevant, and deceptive. What is the average of ALL canadian schools?

Or, compare UofT to say, Harvey Mudd or RIT.

Hey rdecastro... you're right, I shouldn't have said that. But, it's not at all deceptive and it's very relevent because we're talking about it in the context of this particular case. I went to UofT (hence the UofT comparison), and the Saba application is centred around US applicants (hence the comparison to US schools). Sorry about that! But I hope someone does have some stats for more Canadian schools, it would be interesting.

[D.Fish]

i wasnt mocking you. i was just saying that maybe taking into account this fact would have helped. obviously if you give SABA your numerical GPA from UT, it will be much lower that what its actually 'worth', if lets say you were in an american school. does that make any sense? lol
what i did, is I transferred all my letter grades: like B- was a 73% at UT...to a corresponding letter grade on the AMSAS scale, and then found out the GPA. Calculated the cumulative GPA and then thats what I reported. Of course I explained every single calculation. I remember, my 75% at UT became a 3.5, and thats what I applied with. Ofcourse I reported both % score and the GPA score.

Yeah it makes sense, and I understand your conversion... but they didn't think, "hey, this guy is trying to up his marks!" ? haha... it just seems dangerous to me to do that, but I suppose if you back up your calculations it's alright. And whoa, that's some difference! From a 3.0 to 3.5...

[mario345]

Yeah it makes sense, and I understand your conversion... but they didn't think, "hey, this guy is trying to up his marks!" ? haha... it just seems dangerous to me to do that, but I suppose if you back up your calculations it's alright. And whoa, that's some difference! From a 3.0 to 3.5...
well, i had more than a 3.0 raw from UT... ;)
see, here is another trick...you will notice that when you convert your % to GPA, you will see that even 1 or 2 % points makes a huge difference when you actually calculate the GPA as 1 or 2 points send you to a new GPA level. I noticed that I had a LOT of those kind of marks, and thats why my GPA went unexpectedly high...
for example, i had many low 70s but a LOT of 80s as well...i didnt have many mid 70s...you will see that your GPA is more if you have 80s and 70s together, vs lots of 75s...EVENTHOUGH, they both AVERAGE OUT TO 75%.

Meh, its not really a trick...its just a horrible grading system that we call GPA [I tried to beat it, and I was successful at it]. GPAs should be eliminated and we should just have % marks and adjust accordingly to the situation, it makes things VERY easy.

[Closter]

I went to U of T too, and I hate it soo much.... worst decision of my life...
45% of the class getting below 50% on a certain test in orgo II....ugh...
I'm spending less effort than what I did to get B at U of T and gets As at Ross...
so why don't you tell me which of the following is not incorrect?:mad:

[CANKID]

What I believe they do is look at the class averages on your transcript and see how far above it you were. This way it doesn't matter what school you went to, but should be well above the class average to go to medical school. So, instead of comparing US and Canadian schools, or the school you went to, they can compare you to your classmates. I know when I got interviewed he brought up the class average thing.

[DoctorORG]

I went to U of T too, and I hate it soo much.... worst decision of my life...
45% of the class getting below 50% on a certain test in orgo II....ugh...
I'm spending less effort than what I did to get B at U of T and gets As at Ross...
so why don't you tell me which of the following is not incorrect?:mad:



lol.... I hope the admission committe take this into consideration... I recently got an 87 (A) in my fourth year project course, and my supervisor had to bring it down to 84 (A-) due to UT policies... it just made it easier for her to explain why her student deserves to get an A- rather than an A.... this is how it works here, and yes, if you have an average of 75% (3.3) you could get into US medical schools (with good MCATs)....

[fforamm]

This seems like tough luck to me. I recently got accepted for Jan 09 class. I also graduated for U of T. My GPA wasnt much higher than yours (as I also had 2 very bad years at the start) and i have the same MCAT score. As for the other work/experiences, you have more of that. so at this point i'm not sure what they look for--maybe they want the GPA to be above 3.0.
they werent very much impressed with my gpa either, hence they interviewed me for Jan semester only as that term is less competitive. They seem to like Canadians and U of T--the first thing my interviewer told me...they have high respect for our university...

i personally think 2 gud references would have been fine. But neways...its not a bad idea to stay back for one more year if u can pull up ur GPA over 3.0 and you can always call them to explain why they didn't even consider you...

Good Luck!

Hey everyone,

I just got a rejection letter from Saba, without getting an opportunity at an interview. I applied for the January 2009 class. I had a 2.8 GPA (essentially the same for both cumulative and science), MCAT score of 29R (10 bio, 10 physics, 9 verbal), and tons of extracurricular and volunteer activities... everything from student councils to 4 intramural athletic teams (captain of 2 of them) to volunteer tutoring. I have received awards from my university (University of Toronto) for leadership and dedication to extracurriculars. I had 4 letters of recommendation: one from an MD-PhD-professor, one from a physics professor, one from an English professor, and one from the General Manager of the company I worked at for 2 years.

Was my low GPA enough to scare them? I had one bad year, and I mean seriously bad. Aside from that though, my GPA was about 3.3, and they do say they look at trends in GPA and not just the overall number. Maybe it's because I don't have too much experience working or volunteering in hospitals/clinics? I did volunteer for 3 years in a hospital while in high school.

So I'm wondering, why do you think I didn't get in? GPA, lack of clinical experience, MCAT? I read on some threads here that people suggest calling them... should I do that?? If so, what is my goal, to push them for an interview? I really want to get into Saba!

Thanks for your help


Edit: when I say "worked at for 2 years", I mean full time for 2 summers and part time for the school year in between them. I didn't take any years off from school (I'm 21).

[brob311]

Why would the University of Toronto have a different grading system than other US schools when Toronto is the 51st state of the old US of A?

[Closter]

...Try it...

[DoctorORG]

Why would the University of Toronto have a different grading system than other US schools when Toronto is the 51st state of the old US of A?

good question...
our general/inorganic chemistry is also compressed in one semester instead of 2 (unlike all other schools) called CHM139. if you take CHM139, since it is equivalent to first year inorganic chem, we cant take inorganic chem II anywhere else! and our own school dont even offer it. So basically we all have half a semester of chemistry, unless we do some magic and take the second part in another university, eventhough we have covered everything in one semester instead of 2!!

I think it has something to do with the huge # of students accepted here, and the huge pool of applicants to medical school... Ontario has the largest # of MCAT seats so far in north america after California..

[mario345]

Why would the University of Toronto have a different grading system than other US schools when Toronto is the 51st state of the old US of A?
good question, maybe you should forward this query to UofT...which is BY THE WAY, in a different COUNTRY (if you remember your geography correctly) :P

[brob311]

good question, maybe you should forward this query to UofT...which is BY THE WAY, in a different COUNTRY (if you remember your geography correctly) :P


Boy this joke went way over your head...you really missed the bus on this one buddy :rolleyes:

[mario345]

^not really, as evidenced by my ':P' at the end of the sentence.
seems like you were offended...


...meh.

[brob311]

Yes I have been crying myself to sleep at night...

[mario345]

^seems like it. it took you 4 days to gather strength and come up with a reply. :)

[brob311]

^seems like it. it took you 4 days to gather strength and come up with a reply. :)


Well, I do have a life outside of ValueMD, unlike some...but maybe I have been ringing the water out of my pillow for 4 days who knows?

[mario345]

^says the man who has 20 TIMES more posts than me on VMD. hahah
Yes, you do have a great life. Keep it up.

[gianefiasco]

^says the man who has 20 TIMES more posts than me on VMD. hahah
Yes, you do have a great life. Keep it up.

lol pwnage in multiple posts.
I grant u a gold star!:dancing:

[brob311]

^says the man who has 20 TIMES more posts than me on VMD. hahah
Yes, you do have a great life. Keep it up.


I got on here before I started med school, and I am in my 3rd year, sooo...:roll:

[mario345]

lol pwnage in multiple posts.
I grant u a gold star!:dancing:
hahaha...i guess that declares the winner of this argument! :D

[NikolaTesla]

Im afraid Im going to have agree with Mario on this matter... Ive been reading the posts on this forum and I have noticed that alot of people from the universities in the US of A are somewhat disillusioned about what a REAL 80% means.
It is completely true, any professor at a Canadian University will tell you, including the admissions staff at Caribbean Universities: America inflates their GPA's.. so an 80% in the states is considered equal to 70% in Canada.. Im not further propagating this argument.. Im simply stating the facts.