please ladies put some clothes on

[watchingrose]

I hope it is more weather related than anything else, but I'm beginning to notice a serious decline when it comes to the attire of the students on the island, especially the new 1st semester group. The girls, for the lack of a better description, dress like prostitutes. As future members for such a noble profession, I ask my fellow sisters to please PUT ON SOME CLOTHES. Short booty shorts and a tube top is not appropriate attire, in my opinion, to go to class in. Are you trying to be doctors, or auditioning for coyote ugly? Girls wear more clothes in soft core porn! I realize that one should not judge a book by its cover and we should not be judged so superficially, but this is the world we live in, and if you dress like a cheap hooker, expect the same amount of respect in return. You know who you are.

[Laconic]

use the search function

just kidding..:D

[Gator98MD]

Dont worry, half of these clowns will never even make it to clinicals. Its the darwinian fitness of the island.

I hope it is more weather related than anything else, but I'm beginning to notice a serious decline when it comes to the attire of the students on the island, especially the new 1st semester group. The girls, for the lack of a better description, dress like prostitutes. As future members for such a noble profession, I ask my fellow sisters to please PUT ON SOME CLOTHES. Short booty shorts and a tube top is not appropriate attire, in my opinion, to go to class in. Are you trying to be doctors, or auditioning for coyote ugly? Girls wear more clothes in soft core porn! I realize that one should not judge a book by its cover and we should not be judged so superficially, but this is the world we live in, and if you dress like a cheap hooker, expect the same amount of respect in return. You know who you are.

[Closter]

I know I'm suppose to say something...

[cavalletti]

Explains why some schools choose to have uniforms or enforce a dress code.

Does Ross have requirements in writing?

[watchingrose]

there must have been a new rule put somewhere that states that to study in the library, a girl has to either A) have her boobs spilling out b) wear skin tight pants with her thong hanging out c) have her midriff exposed d) must be sitting on a guy's lap atleast 10 mins out of the hour e) (and in certain girl's place) ALL OF THE ABOVE

this disgusts and saddens me to see so many desperate girls. Have some self respect, I beg you!

[stephew]

Actually one prof at sgu had an ill-advised plan to institute a dress code. It was like grade school and completely inappropriate. Having said that, dressing seeing folks dress like that will inspire great ideas like dress codes. Its a shame that women today still need to define themselves by sexual objectification. The flip side is however you'll get what you attract. Maybe an appropriate cliche is you make your bed and have to sleep in it. So you cant complain about the people you draw to your life or the lack of respect and indeed active disrepect that comes your way. If you can't tell the difference between making yourself attractive (both physically and otherwise) and making yourself into an object, between the stuff you show the world and what you grant a prilvedged few, its sort of a shame. Having said all that, I do know a few people who present themselves as such yet who are quite decent folks. They just invite a lot of badness into their lives that they can't understand

ANyway at least differentiate doing this on the island and doing this in front of patients and professionals.

BTW dress code plan failed.

[brob311]

-watchingrose, are you just upset b/c you can't fit into those tube tops/bun-huggers? :)

I noticed the same observation when I was on the island, unfortunately some of them were on the plumpier side, and thought it would subside when ICM started...wrong. I mean you had girls dressing up like classy hookers during ICM-they said they didn't kiss on the lips. They would have a short skirt on with their boobs hanging out, but with a white coat. You would see those locals kicking back with a smile on their face when those ladies practiced a physical exam on them in their drawers. Some ICM instructors, usually women, would call out those girls and tell them to go home and change, but not every ICM instructor did this.

But this behavior came to a screeching halt in 5th AICM Miami, Dr F. will have none of it. So I think the island does not do a good job of prepping students for the "professionalism" aspect of medicine, and that not only includes dress, but behavior, attitude, and respect in general.

[stephew]

if youre concern is that some people are doing this with bodies that make it less than flattering, youre missing the point. that people have poor judgement in their view of what their body can well wear is a different issue and extends to men who insist on speedos who don't have the physique of a swimmer.

[Mustango]

Defense against the ladies

One, the weather is hot.

Two, we are NOT in the profession world, enjoy it while we still can.

there are more reasons but i need to study.

[stephew]

one: no defence. Skin tight does not cool the wearer down. Why dont you men folk wear skin tight shorts hiked up to the upper thigh? Or walk around in those speedos i mentioned? I thought not.

two: yes actually, you are. but aside from that, its not just about the professionalism. Its about, as I said, identity. Advertising yourself as an object is pretty weak in this day and age. Again, if you dont know the difference between sexy and cheap, there's no helping you. Its like a teenager who has fun out with pals and then puts pics of them being sloppy drunk up on myspace. There is a difference between what you do with close pals and how you advertise yourself to others.What you put out there is what you want people to see, to give them info about you. And yes what we wear is an advertisement even when we think its not. Even guys who think they're just wearing what's comfortable are advertising themselves, giving them an identity. Along those lines sgu used to have a thrid term behav sci guy who was fanatastic. He clearly demonstrated to the class that even the "Average straight dude" was advertising himself as such. It came up in context of someone asking why gay people have to "advertise it" by what they wear or how they act. It was a thing of beauty to watch the protodude who asked the question have it made perfectly clear to him that his baseball cap, goatee, t-shirt and shorts ensemble was as much an advertisement for who is was.

Sorry, the only reason to wear stuff like that is in order to be viewed as sexy but on the terms of being a cheap sex object. That's what youre saying about yourself. You wanna be paris hilton? If so, can't help ya.

[brob311]

that people have poor judgement in their view of what their body can well wear is a different issue and extends to men who insist on speedos who don't have the physique of a swimmer.

This trend can be seen across the pond in Guadalupe, with many frequent Frenchies sporting the speedo/gut/gold chain combo. A trendy look for all of the EU beach go-ers.

If you would have looked past the comment about large ladies in little clothes, you would have seen I was writing with more intent. ;)

[dingaling]

I wonder if "girls gone wild" would be interested...
"medical school girls gone wild"... sounds like a best seller to me :shock:

[stephew]

i meant the generic "you" not brob you.

[stephew]

This trend can be seen across the pond in Guadalupe, with many frequent Frenchies sporting the speedo/gut/gold chain combo. A trendy look for all of the EU beach go-ers.

If you would have looked past the comment about large ladies in little clothes, you would have seen I was writing with more intent. ;)
it can also been seen anywhere the europeans swarm. I can't tell you what i saw in grenada a few mon ago in a speedo. gold, chains, tattoos, crappy piss-poor accent, the works.

[stephew]

I wonder if "girls gone wild" would be interested...
"medical school girls gone wild"... sounds like a best seller to me :shock:
god dont give CM any ideas.

[DrFraud]

If you can't tell the difference between making yourself attractive (both physically and otherwise) and making yourself into an object, between the stuff you show the world and what you grant a prilvedged few, its sort of a shame.

It's always great to fall in the 'privilaged few' category, if that's how you want to refer to the one's who got lucky :)


:yeah::yeah::yeah:

[DrFraud]

...........................

[Reign]

Damn and I was hoping to wear a bikini to class . . . .

[hopelessMD]

I don't understand what the big deal is? I, for one, would enjoy it

[importspeed]

Someone has to tell me where to find them. The girls that study in classrooms dress like they're going on a ski trip because the AC is too cold.

[stephew]

I don't understand what the big deal is? I, for one, would enjoy it
i think that pretty much validates the concern. As for importspeed, i hope you have something similiar to offer in return to these fine people.

[vahe99]

Don't be so judgmental, and don't be so uptight. What's the big deal? Have you never been to any other graduate or undergraduate campus before? People can dress however they like as far as I'm concerned, as long as they dress and act properly when the time comes (i.e. clinicals, residency, work...).

[stephew]

Don't be so judgmental, and don't be so uptight. What's the big deal? Have you never been to any other graduate or undergraduate campus before? People can dress however they like as far as I'm concerned, as long as they dress and act properly when the time comes (i.e. clinicals, residency, work...).

actually I could fire that right back: dont be so uptight and judgemental simply because someone has a rational thought that you don't agree with. Professionalis,-as stated several times now- is just one issue.

[vahe99]

actually I could fire that right back: dont be so uptight and judgemental simply because someone has a rational thought that you don't agree with. Professionalis,-as stated several times now- is just one issue.
I'm being open-minded, not saying her opinion is wrong. I'm stating my opinion in response to hers (if she's a girl).

[kryptik]

i doubt a lot of guys will complain of lack of professionalism if their physician is rocking a short shorts with a thong sticking out.. ;)

[stephew]

again, I think you misconstrued what I am saying. in any event we have to agree to disagree. We have different standards on the issue.

[Closter]

Maybe more male will get their prostate checked

[stephew]

i doubt a lot of guys will complain of lack of professionalism if their physician is rocking a short shorts with a thong sticking out.. ;)
I know youre being lighthearted; but actualy in the real world you might be surprised. Folks- and very frequently men- actively dislike that sort of thing very much in the professional realm and take issue with it. even if they are at the other extreme, the more skeezy sort who like to have pretty little ladies around them to look at, they have no respect for them. Fortunately most men are decent folks and very reasonable. And they want to be around women they respect at work.

[vahe99]

again, I think you misconstrued what I am saying. in any event we have to agree to disagree. We have different standards on the issue.
Okie-dokie.

[thezohan]

i doubt a lot of guys will complain of lack of professionalism if their physician is rocking a short shorts with a thong sticking out.. ;)

I would have a huge problem with this, I would definately think its hot but I would never, ever trust her to cut into me.

Not talking in hyperbole, I instantly loose respect for physicians dressed unprofessionally. It's not something I choose to do, but if I see someone looking sloppy, or casually I suddenly start loosing respect for them before I even meet them:

Female physicians showing off their cleavage and/or having the margin of their bra visible.
Skirts half-way up the thigh
Too much makeup/jewelery

Male physicians:

Shorts
Hawaiian shirts - seriously, how do you expect to command respect in this?
Sandals (even clogs but they're not so bad)
Trendy shirts (such as A&F pink polo's)
Neck chains
Shoes that aren't shinned



A pet peeve that I had was when I was shadowing and I saw lots of physicians/residents wearing white lab coats with dirt smudges all over them, I'm sure they are very busy but can't you get several coats and have them cleaned regularly? its not that expensive.

[edit]im sure there are threads arguing about this already, but it is a huge pet peeve of mine

[DrFraud]

i doubt a lot of guys will complain of lack of professionalism if their physician is rocking a short shorts with a thong sticking out.. ;)

I wonder what our former President B Clint. would do in this sistuation? :rolleyes:

[Thespian666]

I gotta say Stephew, though you're correct, I think the idea that wearing certain types of clothing as a show of self-respect therefore garnering others' respect is pretense. Other than to keep us safe and warm from the elements, clothes serve as nothing but decoration regardless of their fashion. I believe this solely on my experience working at my hospital. It seems male doctors object to certain other female doctors' wardrobe only because it is a consistent reminder of their own sexuality; a concept which has been traditionally inappropriate in the workplace.

I've actually given quite a bit of thought about this whole thing and have come to the conclusion that it shouldn't really matter one way or the other...period. Ie. If I was Bill Gates and I designed an even more successful version of Windows but then decided to never wear a tie again, it doesn't make me less professional; just less "professional looking" which is merely a construct of tradition; which is merely the result of Behavior multiplied by Time.

Given that, I'll leave the gold chains and Prada man-derwear for the Frenchies. ;)

[stephew]

to briefly address your points:
no its not about self respect to gain the respect of others per se. Having said that yes the respect of others in life is important but not in the "i want peolpe to like me sense". That's what the tube-toppers are doing. I dont have time to pontificate on this distinction so ill let you decide if you know what i mean or not and be ok w/that.

I think flaunting sexuality *in the workplace*- especially the hospital, is not professional and just a bad idea. Unless youre a porn star, leave that for the private life.

I dont completely agree with the microsoft anaolgy. but again will leave that aside. I was talking mroe about how we advertise ourselves. And we do every day. Even if you dress down that is a way of communicating something. Now things are contextual- a nosering or a tattoo means one thing in some cultures, and another elsewhere. Same with dress. I get that. But what were talking about is run of the mill skankiness. The parasite hiltons of the world. lets not overcomplicate it. Having made my view perfectly clear (or maybe not given some of the replies) I will say that this isnt an apology for treating someone poorly because of their dress. I might feel someones comes across as cheap, but a nice person is a nice person. I would like them for that. But I still dont have to respect however how they choose to represent themself if I decide what's going on is they're self- identity is sexual object (as distinct from being sexy). You may not agree with what im saying but i hope at least you see the point.

[thezohan]

I gotta say Stephew, though you're correct, I think the idea that wearing certain types of clothing as a show of self-respect therefore garnering others' respect is pretense.

You are just talking about abstract, should-be theories. This issue is very simple in reality, what you wear does does tell a lot about your socioeconomic level, career/job, personal neatness, character, etc. Maybe it "shouldn't" be this way but people are far from perfect. We judge other's on what they wear and some clothes such as uniform's (police, firefighters, scrubs for nurses, etc) almost demand respect and other's (like dirty jeans, t-shirts, khaki dockers, tight revealing shorts) really don't.

If you want to change how the world works, fine, but I doubt you would rather go on a blind date with someone in sweat clothes than in a pin-stripe suit than


If I was Bill Gates and I designed an even more successful version of Windows but then decided to never wear a tie again, it doesn't make me less professional; just less "professional looking" which is merely a construct of tradition; which is merely the result of Behavior multiplied by Time.



People judge you on your looks unless you have billions of dollars, and even then they still whisper about it behind your back.

[kryptik]

I would have a huge problem with this, I would definately think its hot but I would never, ever trust her to cut into me.

Not talking in hyperbole, I instantly loose respect for physicians dressed unprofessionally. It's not something I choose to do, but if I see someone looking sloppy, or casually I suddenly start loosing respect for them before I even meet them:

Female physicians showing off their cleavage and/or having the margin of their bra visible.
Skirts half-way up the thigh
Too much makeup/jewelery

Male physicians:

Shorts
Hawaiian shirts - seriously, how do you expect to command respect in this?
Sandals (even clogs but they're not so bad)
Trendy shirts (such as A&F pink polo's)
Neck chains
Shoes that aren't shinned



A pet peeve that I had was when I was shadowing and I saw lots of physicians/residents wearing white lab coats with dirt smudges all over them, I'm sure they are very busy but can't you get several coats and have them cleaned regularly? its not that expensive.

[edit]im sure there are threads arguing about this already, but it is a huge pet peeve of mine
sounds like you will have a problem with anyone thats not dressed like you.

[stephew]

the frenchies are bad enough but when the chain-wearing tattooee with the gut hanging over the speedo opens his mouth and goes "Oy! Give us a pint!" i just tear up.

[stephew]

rememebr george costanza ensconced in velvet? Pretty much.

[kryptik]

dockers khakis dont demand respect? dockers have some very "professional" looking khaki pants.

[Thespian666]

People judge you on your looks unless you have billions of dollars, and even then they still whisper about it behind your back.


Of course and when I ask them if they'd rather me put their "old" heart back in their chest they'll shut their plebian pie holes. :twisted:

[Closter]

Either put on more cloths or less, thank you

[Mustango]

if we are talking about professional dress wear... how about all the wannabe gangstas on campus. Who wear pants which are WAY too big for them, silly baseball hats etc. So its not just the females.

I don't have a problem with the wannabes, if they want to live their life as though they are a rapstar or something, good for them.

People should be able to dress however they want.

[911Med]

A face should be in the books. Not oggling the booties fellow classmates.

Ladies thong-on with yo badselfs!

ps - mental note, bring down my Tom Ford, Brioni, and Kiton cruise wear so my attire satisfies my fellow classmates haute couture opinions...

[ROCKYMAN]

I added a new beginning to my essay after thinking the whole subject goes to malpractice, which is what happens anytime a medical student or "doctor" puts sex, for example, ahead of learning or compassion or concentration. The roots of a malpractitioner developed before medical school. A long time ago I thought interesting the etymology of the word malpractice. The mal is from apple, which is reference to the fairy tale about the garden of Eden, and the religious highjacking of the word to imply evil. In the fairy tale, Eve did the tempting. Poor sucker Adam, perhaps his loss of a rib (found millions of years later on a archeology dig by a notorious anatomy professor) addled his brain, but the equation of woman as evil had been established. How do your external or internal malleoli feel now ? What about the thought of one or both (left and right) of your (hammer = mallet) ossicles being evil ? Swear off prostitutes and apples before the next mini.


I can describe what I observed (about the clothing and behavior) when I was on the island. I doubt that the situation has gotten worse. The situation was already terrible. Girls too often dressed like prostitutes, in addition to which there was the sprinkling of those with orange hair or wearing gang clothes. I digress. I remember from my years-earlier developmental psychology class the "exchange agreement", the hypothesis, indeed a fact in the United States, that women trade sex for financial and social stability. I have never seen a relationship which did not have a degree of the behavior. The prostitutes, though, were offensive.
In the whorish-dressed group, there were those who liked to flirt, but the dangerous subset was a group of girls who tried to work the men to get (1) help studying, (2 )ideas about questions on previous exams and (3) notes. I disagree with the suggestion that these were rapidly eliminated by the medical school. By getting all the resources from the sucker dudes, those girls passed classes they should have failed. "Sex flirtation for resources" was worth a letter grade in the first four semesters. I remember a girl who suddenly spoke my name and held a door for me, which to me seemed a red flag of social pathology. The next week, after I had completed leading the clinical problem group, the girl switched off her charm.
The best chronic (a medical word so you won't feel like you aren't studying) examples of prositiution in public were the in the library on a daily basis. One girl walked in to say hello to her "host" (sucker dude) and immediately pulled his head into her cleavage, similar to Elaine on Seifeld giving George his Christmas card boob, except that I observed three or four seconds seems like a long time when a guy has his nose on her midsternal line at the level of the fourth rib.

In spite of warnings only a day before a clinical exam (formal dress requirements), a few girls went to the clinical practical exam wearing "formal prostitute style", which is an oxymoron. Very tight slacks, or a short skirt. Cleavage. Those trashy heels. Perfume. Don't wear any perfume in healthcare unless you want the rare patient to vomit on you. In spite of a few elements of the clothes which might have been barely classy on a dinner date, the overall style was a crack (it's a drug) whore inside the New York Port Authority "goin' to work".

A few of those prostitute girls, along with a frightening percentage of the girls in the class, were addicted to Gray's Anatomy, the worst television show in history.
If you think during clinical clerkships or residency you are in a scene similar to Grey's Anatomy, there are a few possibilities: one, you are in an abyssmal hospital in which the tolerance of such unprofessionalism is an indicator of how you will never have any credibility; or perhaps you are sleep deprived and hallucinating.

They will eventually be eliminated. If you get sick and admitted to a hospital as a patient and you get a female "doctor", I advise you to choose what society would call an ugly or homely or plain girl. Her skills will perhaps be better than the prostitute airhead who you don't want putting in a central line after she tweeks her lipstick and adjusts her thong. You will die of sepsis from a bacterium I have named Bacillus Horrificus, my pun intended.

I will not entertain the thought of the pain a man would feel if instead of studying he squandered his time on a Barbie and flunked himself out of medical school. In attempting to insulate himself from self-recrimination and depression he would become an alcoholic, though twenty years later, perhaps sooner, bleeding from varices and demented, he would find himself in an emergency room, anemic and altered, listening to the sound of female voices, perhaps one of them his "doctor" saying "isn't it exactly like on Grey's Anatomy".

Right about now, dudes, you ought to stick your face in your textbook, and when you are tired, go to the shacks and get a greasy order of refried greasy fries, did I forget to say greasy ? Go directly to your apartment and study again.

If you do your homework and your corpus callosum doesn't get suckerpunched by your corpus cavernosum, and you become a doctor and in spite of your attempt at character you become an alcoholic, the good news will be that when your are on the stretcher in the Emergency Department bleeding out of your rectum, instead of an airhead prostitute you will hear a man, me, yelling I told you, Barbie, take the stool specimen and put it in a paper bag and drive it the 30 miles over to Saint Wannabe's and go to the chief lab technician and ask him nicely to run a probe for Bacillus Horrificus.

Can you guess what I have to say about orange hair ?

(all text copyrighted and/or excerpted/adapted from my previous and present essays and books)

[Mustango]

one: no defence. Skin tight does not cool the wearer down. Why dont you men folk wear skin tight shorts hiked up to the upper thigh? Or walk around in those speedos i mentioned? I thought not.

two: yes actually, you are. but aside from that, its not just about the professionalism. Its about, as I said, identity. Advertising yourself as an object is pretty weak in this day and age. Again, if you dont know the difference between sexy and cheap, there's no helping you. Its like a teenager who has fun out with pals and then puts pics of them being sloppy drunk up on myspace. There is a difference between what you do with close pals and how you advertise yourself to others.What you put out there is what you want people to see, to give them info about you. And yes what we wear is an advertisement even when we think its not. Even guys who think they're just wearing what's comfortable are advertising themselves, giving them an identity. Along those lines sgu used to have a thrid term behav sci guy who was fanatastic. He clearly demonstrated to the class that even the "Average straight dude" was advertising himself as such. It came up in context of someone asking why gay people have to "advertise it" by what they wear or how they act. It was a thing of beauty to watch the protodude who asked the question have it made perfectly clear to him that his baseball cap, goatee, t-shirt and shorts ensemble was as much an advertisement for who is was.

Sorry, the only reason to wear stuff like that is in order to be viewed as sexy but on the terms of being a cheap sex object. That's what youre saying about yourself. You wanna be paris hilton? If so, can't help ya.

Skin tight clothing doesnt make you hot... the sweat would go to the surface quicker and cool you off. Why do you think athletes wear all that tight clothing? to show off their muscle... i dont think so

How are we in the professional world when we are stuck in a classroom studying 14hours a day. We are not dealing with patients yet. This is highschool, just with more work/gossip lol.

You are only young and good looking for so long. You might as well show it off a bit. I think there might be a little bit of jealousy in this matter... :shock:

Once you get to your 30s, sure you are still young.... but you are not looking as good as when you were in your 20s. So hell, use that low cut shirt now, cause we don't wanna see it when your boobs start draggin... haha

I would think those tank tops are more comfortable, same as the shorts. Most girls wear them because its more comfortable...

On the other side, the girls who wear make up.... those have a different mentally. Those are the ones looking for attention.

[kryptik]

^^hilarious...

[kryptik]

.....Once you get to your 30s, sure you are still young.... but you are not looking as good as when you were in your 20s..
you must not have heard of milf...;)

[Closter]

I think some of us have suffered the famous girls killed our GPA in undergrad, and are fairly immune to some of the displays in class.

[Mustango]

you must not have heard of milf...;)


You must not have hear of this little procedure...plastic surgery ;)

[Closter]

Breast undergoes physiological hyperplasia, yes?

[Closter]

Way off topics now...way way off
I think we are stressed out

[thezohan]

sounds like you will have a problem with anyone thats not dressed like you.

I like stylish clothes, but I am just saying what I have seen and the unconscious level of respect I develop for people dressed in different ways.

dockers khakis dont demand respect? dockers have some very "professional" looking khaki pants.

That's fair, kahakis actually are professional when worn properly, although I usually associate khakis with old rich guys on the golf course or office workers in cubicles.

Of course and when I ask them if they'd rather me put their "old" heart back in their chest they'll shut their plebian pie holes. :twisted:

when I said judge on looks, I meant judge on how you present yourself, physical attributes is entirely different.

i forgot what the start of this thread was

[syntrik]

I really don't understand what it is you all care about women wearing whatever they want on a campus, hundreds if not thousands of miles from a place they will even be doing their clinical rotations. There is no reason to dress professionally on an island where we go to class four hours a day and study the rest - and by this standard there would be plenty of males who dress unprofessionaly as well (which makes me wonder why you would single out women). If they dress unprofessionally come clinicals or residency (which 99% of them won't) they'll hear about it from the people who actually have some sort or a right to demand compliance.

You say women dressing in a suggestive manner demeans them - I disagree. Men telling women how they should or shouldn't be dressing is what's truly demeaning. If you're so easily distracted by it - maybe YOU are the one who shouldn't be in school to be a doctor. Did you know your patients might dress suggestively, or even when people undergo surgery they are ::gasp:: naked. If this distracts you, I would suggest getting out now before you get sued for malpractice.

[thezohan]

(which makes me wonder why you would single out women).

Men are too stubborn to change, there is no hope, but women can be reasoned with about these things

[kryptik]

Men are too stubborn to change, there is no hope, but women can be reasoned with about these things
way to stereotype

[kryptik]

all this reminds me of Dr. House who refuses to wear a white coat.

[Closter]

Well, Vogler is retarded, lots of Docs don't wear coats

[DrMS]

Wearing tube tops probably is cooler since you don't have to wear a bra under it. So yes, in some instances, wearing tight tops serves two purposes - keep you cool, hold up "the girls". Now the booty shorts, I have no idea.

[kryptik]

... Now the booty shorts, I have no idea.
to cover just enough booty to not violate the public nudity laws.

[jcu]

I really REALLY dislike the word, slut. Or whore-ish. That's quite possibly the most degrading thing you could call a girl, ESPECIALLY when you're a guy who knows absolutely nothing about how it feels to wear certain kinds of clothing in certain kinds of weather. Scratch that, especially when you're a guy who wears pretty much whatever he wants to feel comfortable, yet feels the need to criticize girls who wear clothing they want to feel comfortable. Seriously, who are you? You are the kind of close minded person without any respect for your fellow man, or woman. You are the kind of person making judgments and suppositions based on an old, trite, and sexist mindset. You are the kind of person who justifies rape. And you are certainly the kind of person who I'd never want to be my personal physician.

Oh, above rant isn't directed at those with valid complaints of males OR females wearing whatever they want in ICM or in the hospital. Above rant is directed (mostly) at men who feel the incessant need to call girls derogatory names because said girls simply want to feel just as comfortable as the guys.

[jcu]

You are just talking about abstract, should-be theories. This issue is very simple in reality, what you wear does does tell a lot about your socioeconomic level, career/job, personal neatness, character, etc. Maybe it "shouldn't" be this way but people are far from perfect.

Sorry for the double post, but I really have to respond to this post - which no offense is absolutely ridiculous. "Abstract, should-be theories" are not far fetched idealisms without any basis or foundation for reality. These are should-be theories that precisely SHOULD BE. Simply because society is in the majority about something doesn't make it right. Nor does it make it impossible to change. I mean, you only have to look at history and compare it to the present. Easiest example - a black man with an edge to win the presidency of the most powerful country in the world. Sure, proponents of HUMAN EQUALITY were preaching what was then an "abstract, should-be" theory. Were they unrealistic? At the time, sure. But, blaming humanity's faults on their inherent imperfections is an absolute cop-out that only perpetuates discrimination in society today. Listen to Gandhi, kids. Be the change you wish to see in the world.

[kryptik]

^^bravo....

[stephew]

i happen to agree with thezohan. s/he is talking about understanding how things ARE. You are merely trying to force an understanding of the current topic into how things SHOULD BE. And people who have done that without looking at context have caused as much harm as good. The good we all have at the tips of our tounge- civil rights, etc. The harm: communism and fascism- both with romantic goals of perfection. Less obvious things: no fault divorce laws. Sounds great, right? equality, no bias. That's fine in theory. but when youre married in the 1950's sorry, things weren't socially equal and this needs to be considered in the settlement. How about the russians who decided to ignore starving people because that owuld admitt that the perfect govenment wasn't providing. And so in the context of this thread, zohan's comment is very important. feeling good about our desire to have things ideal alone isn't sufficent. you have to look at things as they currently are in order to assess the meaning and actions youre talking about. You can't pretend these things dont exist. Only then can you work on creating the ideal world. Martin Luther King didnt pretend there was no racism. The reality has to be acknowledged first.

So when there is no sexism, no desire to feel superior or degrade another person or treat them as objects, when there is sexual equality, when people don't feel a giddy sense of fist-pumping one upsmanship in standing up in an audience to tell a female presidential candidate- who is more accomplished then they are whether or not you agree with her politics- to go do your laundry...well THEN a bunch of women in skintight clothes will be a non-issue. You can work on making that world, but don't pretend things are otherwise now. Ie, you can't talk about how someone chooses to dress and say it doesnt matter. Their choice to present themselves is VERy much in the context of what it means today, the moment they put the clothes on.

[syntrik]

Yes, if we allow women to wear whatever clothes they want the world will devolve into a facist regime, good example.

The reality here is you are passing a judgement on women for what they wear and not males who do something very similar. I supose women shouldn't be voting either, because there are some men who don't agree with it and we should acknowledge that first.

You said that MLK saw racism and then confronted it. Why not be equally strong and acknowledge that there is sexim and at the very least don't perpetuate it (by presuming to tell women what they should or shouldn't wear), or better yet take a stand against it.

[stephew]

you've really got a grasp on what im saying. nicely done.

[rockstar1999]

when we were in 1st semester a kid used to wear a bow tie to every mini ... everyone started talking; who does he think he is; where does he think he is; whats wrong with him; is he the guy that slept with the prof?; is that waldo?

... GET OVER IT ... who cares how people dress.
welcome to the real world guys - everyone dresses differently, and if you wanna look good DO IT! we're in the western world where its pretty hard to find people who arent morbidly obese ...
if you wanna rebel against them, start dressing well urselves ... oh wait - if you start dressing well the girls will call you a male prostitute ?

[Gator98MD]

Well, first off bowties pop. They show a real fashion sense, especially if this gentleman is from the south where they are a fashion staple. It screams southern gentleman. Bravo to this lad!
To the people castigating him, they have yet to develop fashion taste.



when we were in 1st semester a kid used to wear a bow tie to every mini ... everyone started talking; who does he think he is; where does he think he is; whats wrong with him; is he the guy that slept with the prof?; is that waldo?

[jabee_usm]

Geesh, I see politics, morales, and values! What a combination..............

[thierryhenry]

I'm liking Ross more and more after I read this post..

:)

hopefully there will be some babes when I get down there.

[brob311]

... oh wait - if you start dressing well the girls will call you a male prostitute ?


Should have been at the powder puff game a few semesters ago...plenty of male cheerleaders dressed up as prostitutes. Getting a little sick....

[jim]

nothing wrong with it....if they are on the beach or going clubbing. but class or campus? VERY unporfessional. and though you may think what happens in dominica stays in dominica, it doesnt. that stuff will follow you throughout your career. you think that once you graduate you will never see or work anywhere near a rossie every again? wrong. they are everywhere. and when you go to work someplace and soembody there says"man, she looked like a tramp on the rock", it will stick you with that rep even if you dress proffesionally at work.

[911Med]

nothing wrong with it....if they are on the beach or going clubbing. but class or campus? VERY unporfessional. and though you may think what happens in dominica stays in dominica, it doesnt. that stuff will follow you throughout your career. you think that once you graduate you will never see or work anywhere near a rossie every again? wrong. they are everywhere. and when you go to work someplace and soembody there says"man, she looked like a tramp on the rock", it will stick you with that rep even if you dress proffesionally at work.

Man is that trauma surgeon 911Med?
Wow, he sure did rock that purple Speedo back in Dominica.
Brother did it justice!

I am prophylactically self-editing and holding back a myriad of locker room jokes here. Just to let the crowd know - yes, I probably thought of them too.

can't wait

[Mustango]

Man is that trauma surgeon 911Med?
Wow, he sure did rock that purple Speedo back in Dominica.
Brother did it justice!


can't wait
:lolup: ROFL

I might need to bring down my pink speedo to steal some of that spot light.

[Rybread]

I happen to connect very deeply to this exciting new trend in professional island fashion. It's right up there with "Business Casual" or "Smart Casual."

This look is called "Island Professional."

It says (loudly):
"I would like to join those scantily clad folks on the beach but, even though it's 90 degrees and this country doesn't really have sidewalks, my superiors require me to wear something hot and uncomfortable so I will abide by their pleas and wear the skimpiest 'hot and uncomfortable' outfit I can squeeze myself into; and it will be cheap enough to risk getting ruined in the laundry."

Seriously, what more can you ask for?
You know that the missionaries imported these big bushy thorn-dropping trees so they could encourage the Hawaiians to wear shoes? And who do you think invented the Mumu for them to 'cover up?' It's natural to skimp on the clothes in weather like this.

I think, for this setting, "Ho-fessional" or "Island Professional" is juuuuuust right. If only I could be so lucky than to sweat in my pants, long sleeves, tie and closed-toe shoes. Girls, enjoy it before they institute mumu day.

[Rybread]

In the words of Captain Jack Sparrow:

"You know those clothes dont flatter you at all. It should be a dress or nothing. I happen to have no dress in my cabin."

Haha

[thezohan]

The reality here is you are passing a judgement on women for what they wear and not males who do something very similar. I supose women shouldn't be voting either, because there are some men who don't agree with it and we should acknowledge that first.


Guys shouldn't come dressed like the Fonz, House or Snoop Dog either. Men are judged on what they wear too, but women generally have a much greater variety in their wardrobe. You should know this, this is one of the major ways you get a first impression when you meet someone new. A guy with a tucked in buttoned down shirt with classes and pocket protector invokes different images than someone with their sunglasses on the top of their heat, gold chain around their neck, first 3 buttons undown, chewing a toothpick. which would you rather date, which would you rather trust to cure you of cancer?




nothing wrong with it....if they are on the beach or going clubbing. but class or campus? VERY unporfessional. and though you may think what happens in dominica stays in dominica, it doesnt. that stuff will follow you throughout your career. you think that once you graduate you will never see or work anywhere near a rossie every again? wrong. they are everywhere. and when you go to work someplace and soembody there says"man, she looked like a tramp on the rock", it will stick you with that rep even if you dress proffesionally at work.

Once you become a medical student, people look at you differently. You are starting to be in a much more visislbe role in society, although you may be at the bottom of the physician totem pole, other people have started expecting more responsibility from you. In high school or college, you can get away with just sliding by, but I would hope that once you start becoming a physician you realize that people will be constantly watching you and say "Do you know Dr. X? Did you see what Dr. X was wearing? My friend Dr X says that patient families are idiots HaHa. "I saw Dr. X getting a lap dance at the strip club" etc, etc. I'm not saying don't go to a strip club, but start taking responsibility for the impression you give to other people. Orderlies, janitorial, Nurses, etc can all get away with more things because they are not supposed to be the responsible leaders (although I'm sure many of them are,) but a "physician" should always know better because they are supposed to be smarter, more motivated, etc and what you say, how you act, and how you present yourself (ie how you dress) has a huge impact.


You know that the missionaries imported these big bushy thorn-dropping trees so they could encourage the Hawaiians to wear shoes? And who do you think invented the Mumu for them to 'cover up?' It's natural to skimp on the clothes in weather like this.


I don't think missionaries should be compared to medical schools like this, and its not about other people telling you how to dress. This is not a time to be "rebelling against the establishment, man" you are the establishment now. If you want to take a stand and change things, choose your battles. Voraciously arguing for your right to dress like a moron (which is one of our rights and should remain so) is immature compared to what you are now in a position to do. If you want to impact law and policy, medical students can go to their government offices, to the Washington DC on lobby day, get up at professional organization meetings and state their opinion, etc. Otherwise, just trying not to tear down your professions respect which it has built up over centuries, by taking obvious steps such as not dressing like a manwhore or pop star.

I think I might have lost track of the topic somewhere...
Also, I hope noone thinks I am attacking them personally, this issue just bothers me sometimes.

[Mustango]

Do you think this might be mainly an age issue?

[stephew]

read old posts. the heat is not the issue. it is not a choice between hot and uncomfortable vs prostitute.


and no its not an age thing.

I happen to connect very deeply to this exciting new trend in professional island fashion. It's right up there with "Business Casual" or "Smart Casual."

This look is called "Island Professional."

It says (loudly):
"I would like to join those scantily clad folks on the beach but, even though it's 90 degrees and this country doesn't really have sidewalks, my superiors require me to wear something hot and uncomfortable so I will abide by their pleas and wear the skimpiest 'hot and uncomfortable' outfit I can squeeze myself into; and it will be cheap enough to risk getting ruined in the laundry."

Seriously, what more can you ask for?
You know that the missionaries imported these big bushy thorn-dropping trees so they could encourage the Hawaiians to wear shoes? And who do you think invented the Mumu for them to 'cover up?' It's natural to skimp on the clothes in weather like this.

I think, for this setting, "Ho-fessional" or "Island Professional" is juuuuuust right. If only I could be so lucky than to sweat in my pants, long sleeves, tie and closed-toe shoes. Girls, enjoy it before they institute mumu day.

[Sideswipe]

I think its disingenuous to connect proper dress with comfortable dress. I don't anyone here in this thread is telling them they can't dress comfortably so they can withstand the cold/heat. No one is telling you have to wear a parka to cover yourself.

There IS a difference thought between comfortable and unprofessional. Girls can be comfortable in simple t-shirts and shorts. Its when the jeans are so high cut that you can see unmentionables or they wear a tank top and are basically "hanging out" that it becomes unprofessional.

I've actually known QUITE a lot of girls in my semester who dress very unprofessionally. They bare too much cleavage and basically look like cheap and trashy. I think they are in for a harsh reckoning when they actually try to move up the ladder based on what they know and how professional they are instead of how they look and which person they can mooch information off of.

[Rybread]

I don't think I meant anything like "rock the foundation." I think what I was getting at was the idea that we need to focus on function first; then form. It's hot. I think better when I'm comfortable. Don't get me wrong. You will be pressed to find such a fine dresser as myself (on ICM/hosp. days).
Thezohan, you seem to take so much pride in the respect and prestiege brought on by those two tiny letters, MD. Seriously, all that counts is what you know and what you can do with that knowledge. You could dress like Dr. M, or Dr. G, or "Dr. 90210."

And about "tearing down my professions respect which it has built up over centuries;" What decade are you in, man? Where are you from? What century were you referring to? You mean the century when barbers were designated to perform surgery so doctors couldn't be blamed for killing people? The century where Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis, "the savior of mothers," was condemned to and died in an insane asylum for adamantly suggesting that obsetricians wash their hands? How about the centuries where anatomists had to steal corpses because anatomy wasn't accepted as a science? No, how about before that, when anatomy wasn't taught in medical schools?
I think that the more respect you demand for your fancy appearance, the more disapointed you will be when people treat you like an over-paid public servant. Wear what you want and keep the power within.

P.S. today I wore slacks and a rockin' bowtie; that wasn't a clip on. And I showed somebody something about centuries of medicine. See me in anatomy lab. I'll be the one in the comfy scrubbs.

[Rybread]

I think its disingenuous to connect proper dress with comfortable dress. I don't anyone here in this thread is telling them they can't dress comfortably so they can withstand the cold/heat. No one is telling you have to wear a parka to cover yourself.

There IS a difference thought between comfortable and unprofessional. Girls can be comfortable in simple t-shirts and shorts. Its when the jeans are so high cut that you can see unmentionables or they wear a tank top and are basically "hanging out" that it becomes unprofessional.

I've actually known QUITE a lot of girls in my semester who dress very unprofessionally. They bare too much cleavage and basically look like cheap and trashy. I think they are in for a harsh reckoning when they actually try to move up the ladder based on what they know and how professional they are instead of how they look and which person they can mooch information off of.


Wow. okay. where do you study. Maybe I don't notice this.
Serioulsy. I like to look smart, wealthy, and put-together...but I don't think it's appropriate in this weather. I live way back on B trail and by the time I get to ICM I'm drenched. If only I could rock some board shorts and one of those mesh tank tops the locals wear...

I saw the PSA about professional dress at the culture show and I just don't think I got it. Maybe it's a Muslim thing about all the skin? All the girls in my ICM seem to be dressed pretty respectably. It is kind of funny, though, when someone gets a surgical rotation at PMH and you see them scrubbed up with skimpy strappy open-toed sandals...

For me it's the heat. We guys have to wear pants.
I dunno. Maybe it's because I'm from Cali and have lived in Hawaii.

[Rybread]

Snap, you mean to say that people should dress up for class. Right. I've gone to class dripping wet from a lunchtime snorkel session. Usually, I put on a shirt. I pretty much always wear sandals and often what I wear is based on a quick sniff test (no, not for gardnerella).

So, we should go shopping for the latest styles, you know, in the mall; and we should all be like fashionable little puppets all day? No wonder there is such a strong prepondance for mediasite. Seriously though, lets focus on dress. That's definately a euphamism for professionalism.

There's a guy in my ICM. He is always 10 min. early, he dresses just fine (though, sometimes it looks like he tucks his shirt into his boxers which peek out of his belt line). HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING. Now there's a respectable doctor. Keep up with the dress-up folks.

On that note, time to feed my brain. Btw, I'm mediasiting from home in my tighty whities....but you better be looking good for me on campus. haha

[got milk?]

i didn't bother to read the whole thread. but...

THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICS!

I would like to see the hoochies.

[watchingrose]

There's a guy in my ICM. He is always 10 min. early, he dresses just fine (though, sometimes it looks like he tucks his shirt into his boxers which peek out of his belt line). HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING. Now there's a respectable doctor. Keep up with the dress-up folks.



Way to publicly insult your fellow classmate Rybread. This would explain why your colleagues have such a low opinion of you. What a "respectable doctor" you are by poking fun at a student at ICM (snickering behind his back like a teenager) because of how he's dressed. I'm sure future doctors would love to have you on their team. Not everyone has a cousin in NJ that can fast track their Michigan application (but that's just a rumor, can't possibly be true). Some of us actually earned it the hard way. See you in Michigan. Try not to make fun of the dresses I wear too much.

[kryptik]

i didn't bother to read the whole thread. but...

THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICS!

I would like to see the hoochies.

me too...pictures or it didnt happen.........and to the OP maybe you can transfer to one of the middle eastern nations where the women cover 98% of their bodies.

[watchingrose]

me too...pictures or it didnt happen.........and to the OP maybe you can transfer to one of the middle eastern nations where the women cover 98% of their bodies.

What a surprise! Most of the guys are coming back asking for pics and telling me to go to the middle east. Apparently, if I dont want to perform for you men and show off my body, I must be a fundamentalist of some sort. Is this the point we reached where the women have to show off their bodies or be considered an outcast or weird? This is subjugation at its finest. The pioneers of the women's right movement hopefully did not have this in mind where objectifying women is the norm. Why are women so stupid and have allowed this to happen? Well, Stephew makes the best points. And her opinion holds more water than the rest of you put together. I give value to accomplishment and substance. Thanks for making my original points so apparent boys.

[Rybread]

Way to publicly insult your fellow classmate Rybread. This would explain why your colleagues have such a low opinion of you. What a "respectable doctor" you are by poking fun at a student at ICM (snickering behind his back like a teenager) because of how he's dressed. I'm sure future doctors would love to have you on their team. Not everyone has a cousin in NJ that can fast track their Michigan application (but that's just a rumor, can't possibly be true). Some of us actually earned it the hard way. See you in Michigan. Try not to make fun of the dresses I wear too much.

Real cute. If you read it, I said he dresses just fine and he's actually a really nice guy, just that he doesn't know what he was doing. This is readily apparent.

You have the gall to speculate about my Michigan application? How do you know I didn't seduce Dr. C with a low-cut blouse and high-cut skirt? You know nothing about who I am or where I'm from. If you want any respect from me as a professional or as a person you need to relate on those levels; and my point here is that playing the fashion game doesn't merrit one's true worth.

If you look stupid, I will laugh at you and I would only expect you to do the same for me.

Btw, there are no doctors in my family. I didn't use connections to get into Michigan. If you beat 29 on the MCAT, if you have over 60 hours of live surgical observation, if you have worked as a unit coordinator/EKG tech. in a hospital for over 6 months, if you have TA'd for two semesters, if you have been actively involved in 4 clubs for 4 semesters and currently maintain a solid GPA, let alone taking care of a family here, if you have witnessed your own child being born, or had someone you love die in your arms, then I will publicly appologize.

Otherwise, go try to earn respect from someone else by playing dress-up.

[stephew]

folks so far this converesation has been civil. keep it that way. That's not negotiable.

Also, i encourage those who would poke fun at the topic-and that's fair enough- to try to distinguish between what is friendly/lighthearted, and what is meanspiritied. Those who are on the receiving end in turn to distinguish between the two and not rise to the bait if someone is genuinely fishing for you.

[kryptik]

my tranfer to the middle east was suppose to be poking fun, nothing more but i will like to address some of your points...

What a surprise! Most of the guys are coming back asking for pics and telling me to go to the middle east.
two people dont make up "most"
Apparently, if I dont want to perform for you men and show off my body, I must be a fundamentalist of some sort.
in the same way if a lady wants to wear a short shorts doesnt make her a slut
Is this the point we reached where the women have to show off their bodies or be considered an outcast or weird?
i think we are at a point where women/men should be allowed to wear what they want and not be judged as "unprofessional", as long as their attire doesnt disrupt their duties and conforms with the dress code of such institution
This is subjugation at its finest. The pioneers of the women's right movement hopefully did not have this in mind where objectifying women is the norm.
do you objectify a woman wearing skimpy clothes? I dont! Do you objectify women in bikinis at the beach? I dont. A woman doesnt have to be scantly dressed to be objectified. Lower wages, sexual harrasments at work that is objectifying and the real issue.
Why are women so stupid and have allowed this to happen?
Way to stereotype women...you make a lot of generalizations in your posts, maybe the issue is with you.
Well, Stephew makes the best points. And her opinion holds more water than the rest of you put together.
Yes she does, she also posted we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.
I give value to accomplishment and substance. Thanks for making my original points so apparent boys.

[stephew]

krypitck- i think you make a comment worth looking over- just because a women wears "short shorts' doesnt make her a slut. Lets take this to an extreme for the purpose of making a point. Dressing like a prostitute doesnt mean a women is a slut or a prostitute. Absolutely true. However yet agian, the clothing is a messege, an advertisement. In the context of mainstream american culture, its identity as sexual object. THAT is the point. If a man dressed in the same short shorts you metion, it doesnt mean he's gay, but he'd be sending a messege about how he wants to be perceived (ill let you debate about what that would eb if you wish). Basically, dress is ALWAYS a messege identity. That messege has to be taken in context.

And to turn it back around one last time, it is classic for people (men and women) to claim that those who object to sexual objectification of women (its not been a problem for men) are prudes. That's merely a way to diminish the arguement by an ad hominem attack. If you merely want to play political one-upsmanship then that's a stratagy. but if youre really looking at the issue, then that can't stand.

Also I dont think youre being fair to wild rose by attacking her comment "why are women so stupid...etc". You want her to qualify everything? Does she need to b=out in the modfiers "some women" or "insecure women" or whatever? I think you know what she means. You are merely trying to turn her concern for the stnading of women in society against her. Its really a rhetorical move and doesnt merit as a legitimate criticism to her argument. I suspect you and I both get the point she is making and to attack it for not being "Exact" enough is silly. Ever watch the brady bunch and the episode of greg brady's "exact words"? Pretty much.

At this point, folks can choose to see the point and then agree or not, or simply disparage the other person's point of view. Its not worth addressing the latter and the former can go on for those so incined. I will say the times I think it was had a nice article during the dem primary about which is more acceptable today: sexism or racism. I think in fact the reality is that sexism is still far less taboo than racism. Sometimes its subtle. Again i point to the guy who asked H.C at the primaries to do his laundry. This is merely a thought experiement and I take that as a fair qualifier, but I can far more easily imaging a bunch of guys (and yes even some women) watching that on tv, laughing at that even if they thought it was "not right". Its harder to image the same responce if it was a joke about cotton picking to Obama. Unless it was the guys on Borats bus.

[watchingrose]

Real cute. If you read it, I said he dresses just fine and he's actually a really nice guy, just that he doesn't know what he was doing. This is readily apparent.

You have the gall to speculate about my Michigan application? How do you know I didn't seduce Dr. C with a low-cut blouse and high-cut skirt? You know nothing about who I am or where I'm from. If you want any respect from me as a professional or as a person you need to relate on those levels; and my point here is that playing the fashion game doesn't merrit one's true worth.

If you look stupid, I will laugh at you and I would only expect you to do the same for me.

Btw, there are no doctors in my family. I didn't use connections to get into Michigan. If you beat 29 on the MCAT, if you have over 60 hours of live surgical observation, if you have worked as a unit coordinator/EKG tech. in a hospital for over 6 months, if you have TA'd for two semesters, if you have been actively involved in 4 clubs for 4 semesters and currently maintain a solid GPA, let alone taking care of a family here, if you have witnessed your own child being born, or had someone you love die in your arms, then I will publicly appologize.

Otherwise, go try to earn respect from someone else by playing dress-up.


I didn't mean to insult you. you were just gloating about it the other day. If I had connections, I would use them too, so relax. Just own up. Next time if you don't want to be called out on it, don't boast about your "connections" and how you got in Michigan so easily and how you won't have any problems getting your rotations due to said connection. It breeds resentment among people that don't have the advantage of such perks.

All of your qualifications may be true (and quite impressive admittedly, don't want to take anything away from you), but last time I checked, the only thing on the Michigan application was GPA and residency (which you dont have). Are you saying you found a "special" way to highlight some of your other accomplishments to the people making the decision? I wonder how that happened? If it was based solely on GPA (which it was for the rest of us regular people), then you yourself would admit that there is something fishy. I know 3 students (and probably more) that had a higher GPA than you but failed to get in. And no, its not because they have professionalism issues. Maybe your personality won them over. Where on the application did you talk about that? along with your hours of this and that. Hmm, I wonder how they got wind of all these accomplishments you've had. Yea, thought so. Don't take it as an insult. This is the way the world works. Connections MATTER ALOT. Like I said, if I could, i would do it too!!!

Don't look down on other people when you took the shortcut. Nice of you to laugh at someone that is struggling in ICM. Apparently all these experiences in the real world didn't teach you any empathy. How about you help the guy out since you know so much more than him?

[jim]

Thezohan, you seem to take so much pride in the respect and prestiege brought on by those two tiny letters, MD. Seriously, all that counts is what you know and what you can do with that knowledge. You could dress like Dr. M, or Dr. G, or "Dr. 90210."




VERY wrong!!!! nobody will give you a chance to show your knowledge or skill if they think you are a dufus to begin with, based on your appearance. appearance is everything. thats why horrible docs who are nice and proffessional appearing dont get sued, but great docs who are jerks do.

[911Med]

There is an awful amount of hostility here that can be cured by skipping around in a piece of lycra that is three sizes too small...hmm say a Speedo or bikini?
We have been practicing this philosophy since the late 60's in Cali and how many stressed out people do you see here? That's right.
None.
C'mon people, journey to the back of your closet and grab that swim suit circa 4th grade drown-proofing and bust it out - feel the liberation.
Southern gentlemen: a bowtie and Speedo is the quintessential epitome of sartorial style and I applaud you for taking this often stolen Chippendale-esque venture. Bravo!
Am I am calling for a ridiculous uniform? No - rather a huge slap of humility and laughter. Something that if we were all forced to wear, would make everyone smile on campus, increase self-confidence and most likely fitness, and certainly negate this thread.


ps - the 90210 zip code is passe. Everyone knows that 92037 is the new black in Cali.

[thezohan]

See me in anatomy lab. I'll be the one in the comfy scrubbs.

I love wearing scrubs, I never get a bad impression from someone wearing scrubs. If you are wearing a scrub top with betty, flowers or scooby doo I might think you are a nurse and not a doctor (i think peds is different). I wasn't saying everyone should wear clothes straight out of "Dress for Success," I'm saying I wish people dressed "normal-professional." BTW, its not that hard to dress well, its actually much easier to look professional than to look stylish or to look um "slutty"

[thezohan]

ps - the 90210 zip code is passe. Everyone knows that 92037 is the new black in Cali.

Is that compton?

Is there a dress policy at ross? Can guys come to class shirtless?

[Mustango]

Don't worry 911med, all this hostility is coming because we have a MINI this monday. People just want to vent. Same thing with the squatting forum.

[Rybread]

VERY wrong!!!! nobody will give you a chance to show your knowledge or skill if they think you are a dufus to begin with, based on your appearance. appearance is everything. thats why horrible docs who are nice and proffessional appearing dont get sued, but great docs who are jerks do.


"Appearance is everything"

This is the difference between 'playing doctor' and being a doctor. You can't see information or skill, only their demonstration (which cannot be purchased as a clothing).

When you have a MD, you will sill have it in the shower. You will take it with you on that surfing trip to indonesia. You will have it in the woods, camping. This is true, no?

[Rybread]

I didn't mean to insult you. you were just gloating about it the other day. If I had connections, I would use them too, so relax. Just own up. Next time if you don't want to be called out on it, don't boast about your "connections" and how you got in Michigan so easily and how you won't have any problems getting your rotations due to said connection. It breeds resentment among people that don't have the advantage of such perks.

All of your qualifications may be true (and quite impressive admittedly, don't want to take anything away from you), but last time I checked, the only thing on the Michigan application was GPA and residency (which you dont have). Are you saying you found a "special" way to highlight some of your other accomplishments to the people making the decision? I wonder how that happened? If it was based solely on GPA (which it was for the rest of us regular people), then you yourself would admit that there is something fishy. I know 3 students (and probably more) that had a higher GPA than you but failed to get in. And no, its not because they have professionalism issues. Maybe your personality won them over. Where on the application did you talk about that? along with your hours of this and that. Hmm, I wonder how they got wind of all these accomplishments you've had. Yea, thought so. Don't take it as an insult. This is the way the world works. Connections MATTER ALOT. Like I said, if I could, i would do it too!!!

Don't look down on other people when you took the shortcut. Nice of you to laugh at someone that is struggling in ICM. Apparently all these experiences in the real world didn't teach you any empathy. How about you help the guy out since you know so much more than him?


You're right. My uncle is the surgeon general and my grandfather runs synergy. But mostly, I got into MI on my good looks and charm. haha

I don't have any connections with ross, new jersey, or michigan. I swear. I don't know how I got in. I honestly applied thinking I would be rejected. My GPA first semester was really good. Neuro got me in 2nd and I was borderline low for Pharm. I have earned all of my A's.

You want to chat about Michigan? Great. Let's chat. But don't speculate about "said connections." Really. You don't know what you're talking about and you are dead wrong.

P.S. Before I read your post, I invited that ICM guy to practice sessions; partly because I felt bad for him (being a good guy and all), but partly because he's part of my icm team and we could all make better use of the time watching him fumble.
The same goes to you, here. Let's chat about MI. I'll set you straight so you don't have to waste time being wrong.

[thezohan]

"Appearance is everything"

This is the difference between 'playing doctor' and being a doctor. You can't see information or skill, only their demonstration (which cannot be purchased as a clothing).

When you have a MD, you will sill have it in the shower. You will take it with you on that surfing trip to indonesia. You will have it in the woods, camping. This is true, no?

I think you have the idea that people who dress "like doctors" are superficial idiots (I'm sure some are, i've seen those people in undergrad who wear a tie to class every day and think it will make up for getting all Cs.) I think being intelligent and skilled is the most important thing, but its not that hard to look professional also. I don't see the benefit of being a brilliant physician and dressing like a construction worker on wards just because you think the world can excuse you on account of your genius. The world is not like House. Google any famous modern physician and see what they dress like if you don't believe me. You can wear what ever you want and still be a doctor, but people will still judge you on what you wear no matter what profession you are in..

[911Med]

Is that compton?




No it is La Jolla, CA - a little enclave in San Diego.
Polar opposite of Compton; sadly we have zero talented rap alumnus.

[got milk?]

what, no pics?

i'm pulling out.

this has gotten too philosophisticated.

[stephew]

smart move i think.

[Mustango]

no one has pics since they are not dressing up that scandalous. People here make it seem like they are wearing lil' G strings. Its really not that bad.

[911Med]

no one has pics since they are not dressing up that scandalous. People here make it seem like they are wearing lil' G strings. Its really not that bad.

Just wait until Jan 09 baby!
Now, in the interim, could you please pass the CheeseWhiz?

[Gator98MD]

I cannot believe the longevity of this thread. Who knew a thread about attire could elicit so many opinions? In that vein then, what are peoples thoughts about bowties? I wear them and love them. Plus they are not fomites like neckties!!:p

[rokshana]

"Appearance is everything"

This is the difference between 'playing doctor' and being a doctor. You can't see information or skill, only their demonstration (which cannot be purchased as a clothing).

When you have a MD, you will sill have it in the shower. You will take it with you on that surfing trip to indonesia. You will have it in the woods, camping. This is true, no?


you DO know jim IS a doc...a practicing one...and while everyone wants to think that we live in this enlightened world were appearance doesn't mean anything...that its what's inside that count...unfortunately its not the way the world works...first impressions DO make an impact....if you dress like a dufus as jim puts it, you will be perceived as one and it will take a lot to over come it...same goes for dressing provocatively...you will not be taken seriously by your attendings, by your residents, or even by other med students.

sure on the island the dress is (and should be) more relaxed than in the hopsital or office, but like it was said by someone else- comfortable and casual doen't necessarily mean hoochie...

i wore t-shirts, shorts, and sandals everyday while i was in the islands- they were daytime apparel- not clubbin' clothes- and while not clothing i would wear in the hospital, they were appropriate for classes...

there are BIG sticklers for appropriate and professional dress in the hospitals - one guy i know showed up to morning conference on a friday ("casual" day) without a tie...and was promptly dressed downed by the PD - even after he got a tie out of his car, the PD commented on the lack of tie later that day. I also know people who were sent home to change because their clothes were not deemed professional.

[stephew]

I cannot believe the longevity of this thread. Who knew a thread about attire could elicit so many opinions? In that vein then, what are peoples thoughts about bowties? I wear them and love them. Plus they are not fomites like neckties!!:p

you should NOT wear a bow tie as a doc in hospital unless you are over 60, or if youre over 50 and famous and beloved in your field. The young guys who wear them in hospital are all prats. Like the young guy from crossfire who got nailed by the guy from The Daily Show. (no names, sorry). One guy at hopkins was such a twit, the day he became a fellow in medonc he started wearing one. He was a pretentious little dink no one liked. The bowtie was symbolic of all that made him what he was (and wasn't).

[Gator98MD]

Well you yankees may view it as such, but down here the good ole south they are ageless. TC (edited for names) would agree with me on this one I assure you.

you should NOT wear a bow tie as a doc in hospital unless you are over 60, or if youre over 50 and famous and beloved in your field. The young guys who wear them in hospital are all prats. Like the young guy from crossfire who got nailed by the guy from The Daily Show. (no names, sorry). One guy at hopkins was such a twit, the day he became a fellow in medonc he started wearing one. He was a pretentious little dink no one liked. The bowtie was symbolic of all that made him what he was (and wasn't).

[stephew]

re: TC


And I think that says it all.

[Sideswipe]

VERY wrong!!!! nobody will give you a chance to show your knowledge or skill if they think you are a dufus to begin with, based on your appearance. appearance is everything. thats why horrible docs who are nice and proffessional appearing dont get sued, but great docs who are jerks do.

I think you and stephew have hit the nail on the head. A syle of dress is a message about the person. If you dress like a thug, then you are trying to put out the thug persona. There is no other reason to conform to a style if not to become a part of that group. By wearing said "uniform" of the group, you are associating with the rest of the properties associated with the group. No guy is gonna be wearing bling and gold teeth and expect people to associate him with a Nobel Peace Prize winner for astrophysics.

Here is the most extreme example: A doctor dressed as a clown walks into the surgery room to perform a surgery. You think the patient would be comfortable with the doctor?

Gator: I'm from the south and they are not ageless. They are mostly snickered at.

[Rybread]

So, Jim, are you wearing your MD?

I know what you mean. It would take serious cajonies to wear flip-flops to an interview and you would probably bomb out on principle.

I've been on the wards. I've seen both sides of the spectrum. I knew a nephrologist who's hobby was off-roading. He had tattoos and had a shaved head. He would show up in skate shoes and jean shorts. I thought it was kind of odd that he was a specialist that serviced the only dialysis clinic in the area. The fact of the matter here, is that he had the autonomy to do what he felt was necessary (including dress humself).

I have also seen the other side of it. I knew two docs who wore bowties. One was a wacky neurologist who kept his neuro tools in a Playskool lunchbox at the nurse's station. Another was an interventional cardiologist who would write his orders with a fountain pen and get really irked when the pharmacy wouldn't process "td," having him come back to change it to "tid," etc.

(both of these guys were in fact over 60 come to think of it...)

Stephew, I wear one because I had to wear a tie 6 days/week in boarding school and I like to break the monotony. The bow doesn't swab my patients either. (I tackle the necktie/fomite situation with a tie clip, get one) I also like knowing that I know how to tie one. The image of pretentiousness is welcomed. I stand out with skill. It's the clip-ons you should be wary of. But, yeah, I can see that guy in "Something About Mary."

This is kind of my main point. Jim here still has his MD when he takes his white coat off, right? But he also has the autonomy to wear what he wants because he's earned it. Call me ostentatious, I have no problem with that.

[dt]

Here is the most extreme example: A doctor dressed as a clown walks into the surgery room to perform a surgery. You think the patient would be comfortable with the doctor?




Is the clown outfit sterile? What type of surgery?

[argazul]

Here you go, proof ;)

YouTube - Scrubs - Clown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX82ptVWDy4&feature=related)

[Sideswipe]

Its of no matter to me. The people who dress unprofessionally will change their ways. I'm sure the first time an attending sends you back home to change will go a long way to opening some people's eyes.

[rokshana]

Well you yankees may view it as such, but down here the good ole south they are ageless. TC (edited for names) would agree with me on this one I assure you.


eh- not so much...i agree with steph....young guys with a bowtie...they are a bit on the odd side...

[Rybread]

Rokshana- I can't wait for casual day where I can wear my casual bowtie. haha. (What's the consensus on bolo ties? Probably not anywhere outside of Texas.) Just knowing how to tie a bowtie earns points in my book. Plus, I'm not that young.

Here's a question: When nobody is looking, do you ever consider walking around to the left side of the table? What if there was more room over there? if it were more convenient? Would you consider someone who did this unprofessional?

[vivmeddoc]

eh- not so much...i agree with steph....young guys with a bowtie...they are a bit on the odd side...
I agree with steph and rokshana, I did my residency in the south and we had a new doc with a bowtie, he is a super nice guy but.......still, a bit on the odd side......., even his boss try to stop him from wearing it.

[syntrik]

Actually there is a recent study which says ties are the number one fomite responsible for bacterial transfer in hospitals. Several doctors, residents and students have switched to bowties in order to cut down on the transfer.

And Bill Nye the Science Guy wears them - so what's not to like?

[NYladoo]

Actually there is a recent study which says ties are the number one fomite responsible for bacterial transfer in hospitals. Several doctors, residents and students have switched to bowties in order to cut down on the transfer.

And Bill Nye the Science Guy wears them - so what's not to like?

My idea if I was running hospital would be to require everyone who works in the hospital to wear scrubs, color coded to indicate position (MD, RN, PA etc). Staff would be required to come to the hospital dressed in their regular clothes and change into their appropriate color coded scrubs and then change back to regular clothes when they left. No one would be allowed to leave or enter the hospital wearing hospital issued scrubs (not even to go out for lunch) nor would anyone be allowed to work in scrubs not issued by the hospital. It may sound harsh, but I think it's necessary.

[Gavanshir]

Stop being so conservative and uptight. Would you be judging others as harshly if you had gone to an American school?

People have the freedom to choose their own identities and watch what they like, who are you to judge them and decide their identity isn't appropriate?

Medicine is a diverse enough field for you to mind your own business when it comes to these things.

[rokshana]

My idea if I was running hospital would be to require everyone who works in the hospital to wear scrubs, color coded to indicate position (MD, RN, PA etc). Staff would be required to come to the hospital dressed in their regular clothes and change into their appropriate color coded scrubs and then change back to regular clothes when they left. No one would be allowed to leave or enter the hospital wearing hospital issued scrubs (not even to go out for lunch) nor would anyone be allowed to work in scrubs not issued by the hospital. It may sound harsh, but I think it's necessary.

and unenforceable- people can't change out of their scrubs now...what makes you think a hospital could get everyone to do that?

[mmod]

you should NOT wear a bow tie as a doc in hospital unless you are over 60, or if youre over 50 and famous and beloved in your field. The young guys who wear them in hospital are all prats. Like the young guy from crossfire who got nailed by the guy from The Daily Show. (no names, sorry). One guy at hopkins was such a twit, the day he became a fellow in medonc he started wearing one. He was a pretentious little dink no one liked. The bowtie was symbolic of all that made him what he was (and wasn't).

Haha.... probably the best post I've read on this site.

....this girl knows how to write.

[rokshana]

Medicine is a diverse enough field for you to mind your own business when it comes to these things.


hahaha...where are YOU practicing medicine?...don't fool yourself...medicine IS a conservative field and how you dress and carry yourself will make a difference...

go to your interviews for residency wearing blue jeans and no tie or a hoochie outfit and see how many programs rank you...

[argazul]

hahaha...where are YOU practicing medicine?...don't fool yourself...medicine IS a conservative field and how you dress and carry yourself will make a difference...

go to your interviews for residency wearing blue jeans and no tie or a hoochie outfit and see how many programs rank you...
Patch Adams program, but i think they require a clown nose. :p

[Mustango]

Patch Adams program, but i think they require a clown nose. :p


I had that movie in mind as well. I wonder what he would say. :eek:

[Closter]

"I became a doctor because of the movie Patch Adams"

[got milk?]

go to your interviews for residency wearing blue jeans and no tie or a hoochie outfit and see how many programs rank you...



i forego the tie a lot. that thing chokes and makes me sweat up there. but you bet i'm gonna wear it to an interview and bring a sweat rag

i have no idea if they look down on me because of that. but i do button everything else up so it looks neat.

[Rybread]

I don't think missionaries should be compared to medical schools like this, and its not about other people telling you how to dress. This is not a time to be "rebelling against the establishment, man" you are the establishment now. If you want to take a stand and change things, choose your battles. Voraciously arguing for your right to dress like a moron (which is one of our rights and should remain so) is immature compared to what you are now in a position to do. If you want to impact law and policy, medical students can go to their government offices, to the Washington DC on lobby day, get up at professional organization meetings and state their opinion, etc. Otherwise, just trying not to tear down your professions respect which it has built up over centuries, by taking obvious steps such as not dressing like a manwhore or pop star.

I think I might have lost track of the topic somewhere...
Also, I hope noone thinks I am attacking them personally, this issue just bothers me sometimes.

I thought this article, although somewhat dated, to be of interest:
Rani Kerin | 'Natives Allowed to Remain Naked': An Unorthodox Approach to Medical Work at Ernabella Mission | Health and History, 8.1 | The History Cooperative (http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/hah/8.1/kerin.html)

[rokshana]

Patch Adams program, but i think they require a clown nose. :p

His life as a med student wasn't the easiest at UVa...you do remember that he almost got kicked OUT of UVa because of his unconventional ways, right?

I never said you couldn't be a good doctor bucking the dress codes of medicine, but you are going to have to do alot to overcome the impression you 1st make, if that one is a poor one...life in med school (and residency) is hard enough- why add an additional burden? Pick your battles wisely...there will be plenty of them as you go along...

[stephew]

and unenforceable- people can't change out of their scrubs now...what makes you think a hospital could get everyone to do that?

actually no true. Mt Sinai in nyc had the policy that you could not wear their scrubs out of the hospital. They enforced it, not perfectly, but effectively. The scrubs only rule however makes no real sense. Its simply not necessary. Hospitals do have dress policies that work functionally well.

[NYladoo]

actually no true. Mt Sinai in nyc had the policy that you could not wear their scrubs out of the hospital. They enforced it, not perfectly, but effectively. The scrubs only rule however makes no real sense. Its simply not necessary. Hospitals do have dress policies that work functionally well.

Yeah, but scrubs are so much more comfortable. Ties, dress shirt, and slacks should be for clinic and not for the hospital, where you can easily make a mess on your nice clothes.

[rokshana]

actually no true. Mt Sinai in nyc had the policy that you could not wear their scrubs out of the hospital. They enforced it, not perfectly, but effectively. The scrubs only rule however makes no real sense. Its simply not necessary. Hospitals do have dress policies that work functionally well.

evry hospital has that policy- its a JACHO requirement...but i've seen plenty of people walk out of the hopsital to their cars (or come in them)- even when JACHO was on the premises!

i agree about not having a scrubs only- i personally hate scrubs...just have certain clothes for the hospital - its ok if people see you in the same 5- 10 outfits.

[Mustango]

As long as you change your tie, its a new outfit lol

[stephew]

Yeah, but scrubs are so much more comfortable. Ties, dress shirt, and slacks should be for clinic and not for the hospital, where you can easily make a mess on your nice clothes.

My clinic (as are many others) is in the hospital. And if someone doesnt care aout a mess on their clothes (and frankly that doesnt happen too often if you are not doing procedures) is their business; not a reason to make a rule about scurbs only.

[medic300107]

i cant believe this topic is 14 pages long....should be an option, scrubs are acceptable even in clinic in my opinion, they were designed to be the clothes for the medical profession, if you choose to wear ur dress slacks, shirt and tie, then so be it.

[Yarbrough_PBL_Professor]

This guy that I know Love it when his GF , Trani, wears skanky clothes.

[got milk?]

hey look. all these med students aren't wearing ties.

when did the tie trend start?

[Closter]

:rolleyes:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8126/vlcsnap1592474fn5.png

[Aggiemd2b]

His life as a med student wasn't the easiest at UVa...you do remember that he almost got kicked OUT of UVa because of his unconventional ways, right?

I never said you couldn't be a good doctor bucking the dress codes of medicine, but you are going to have to do alot to overcome the impression you 1st make, if that one is a poor one...life in med school (and residency) is hard enough- why add an additional burden? Pick your battles wisely...there will be plenty of them as you go along...


Besides you are already going to have to battle and prove yourself worthy of the MD because you are a FMG why add to that by dressing 'differently'

[got milk?]

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8126/vlcsnap1592474fn5.png


i totally agree. i forgot about the most important point. the tie is the dirtiest piece of clothing we wear. it should be banned from hospitals.
just leave the collar button unbuttoned, and everyone wins.

[thierryhenry]

where, where my bitches?

[thierryhenry]

wow cool message board

[thezohan]

Besides you are already going to have to battle and prove yourself worthy of the MD because you are a FMG why add to that by dressing 'differently'

Exactly, while it may be "you" to wear hip, house-like-cool-but-brilliant sport coats, fonz suites, or shorts and a t-shirt FMGs do have something to prove so start conforming, conform, conform, conform. Look like you are respectable and responsible. I would dare say Bowties would put you in the "just odd" category.

[mad6russell]

Gator, I worked in a hospital in the good ole southern state of TN, tons of young docs wore bow ties.... and everyone always commented on how good they looked.

[Gator98MD]

Thank you, finally a voice of reason on this stylishly-bankrupt board. Like I have said before, bowties pop!!!

Gator, I worked in a hospital in the good ole southern state of TN, tons of young docs wore bow ties.... and everyone always commented on how good they looked.

[stephew]

...says the man with the blue and orange alligator paraphanalia.

[brob311]

...says the man with the blue and orange alligator paraphanalia.


Don't forget the jorts, wife beater, and mullet...Official gear for the Gator Nation ;)

[Gator98MD]

To the above posters: The University of Florida, being the greatest school in all the land, engenders much school pride and us graduates are not afraid to wear that pride on our sleeve. Now as far as the remarks about Jorts, mullets, and the like, I can only assume you are a UT, FSU, or UGA grad, to which I say two things 1) pot calling kettle black and 2) I extend my condolences! Go Gators!!!! :D

[911Med]

Could we please return to the original topic of tube tops, thongs, and prostitutes? All relevant and indoctrinated matters of the original post?

A brother has to have something to look forward to for the next 16 months...


daydream

[brob311]

I am a proud UGA graduate GatorMD...I got to take a jab when I can. Yes, you have had your recent success, I am not drinking the Hatorade. I will enjoy this years football season, especially after the great game in Jax last year.

Goooo DAAWWGSSS!!!