With Spartan's new owner and President ... CA and NY approvals in sight ? [Archive]

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BHood

07-06-2008, 04:17 PM

you don't buy a business without turnkey solutions .. a lot of students (but not all) shy away from schools that don't have CA and NY approvals. will Spartan be applying again for CA (and NY clinicals approvals) ? It's been since 1985 when the CA disapproval was given, there must be lots of changes by now, or the new owner is going to spend a bit to get the approvals, which means higher enrolment. anyone?

specialknyc

07-17-2008, 06:11 PM

NY is probably going to happen at some point in the near future. Cali will probably be on the way at some point as well.

I imagine they will up the class size from 25 or so to 35-40 at some point. There is way more than enough room available for classes that size. Plus the addition of a 5th Trimester will most likely help. Only thing anyone can do is sit and wait to see what happens....

azskeptic

07-18-2008, 12:38 PM

how much money do you think it would take to upgrade Spartan to pass those two states inspections? Does the new owner have it? It would take years or do you think it could be done quickly?

you don't buy a business without turnkey solutions .. a lot of students (but not all) shy away from schools that don't have CA and NY approvals. will Spartan be applying again for CA (and NY clinicals approvals) ? It's been since 1985 when the CA disapproval was given, there must be lots of changes by now, or the new owner is going to spend a bit to get the approvals, which means higher enrolment. anyone?

ASIANDOC

07-19-2008, 01:53 AM

I believe NY approval is easier than CA and is not really harmimg the school since Spartan has large # of grads trained in NY and fully licensed in that State.The New owner is a prominent NY surgeon as I understand and NY approval for the purpose FOR clinicals might be around the corner in my opnion.In 1983 [may be in 82] I was with what was called University of Dominica [Now Ross Univ] and at that time Ross did not have much of facility and faculty /Small campus [just started few years back]and they were reviewed by CA and got approved,I believe based on the new Spartan website info with the number of basic sciences faculty[about 18 FT] and utilizing almost same hospitals as the other CA approved schools as well as the facilities [reasonable and school owned] and large # of estabilished grads that have proven practice records,they should have good chance of fresh start.
These days I believe any school can get by without NY or FL recognitions[its just to do clerkship] but its mandatory and a basic for survival to seek and get CA approvals,its a must.Now most states favor Ross,SGU,AUC and SABA,things are changing now and many have adopted CA list.

Opnion

Genossa maximillian

07-20-2008, 06:28 PM

"In 1983 [may be in 82] I was with what was called University of Dominica [Now Ross Univ] and at that time Ross did not have much of facility and faculty /Small campus [just started few years back]and they were reviewed by CA and got approved,"

I remember those days, a prominent member of the Medical Board of P.R. visited Ross back then and came back sounding alarms all over the place about how poorly equipped the school was and saying, I am quoting what was said back then.....'these poor students are getting duped". That was then of course. This is now. I think if Spartan follows the letter of the guidelines for CA approval it has a chance. AS for NY and FL that is for rotations only, I don't see the big fuzz about it anyway. CA stands out all by itself and its approval is unique and extremely important like you point out.

I believe NY approval is easier than CA and is not really harmimg the school since Spartan has large # of grads trained in NY and fully licensed in that State.The New owner is a prominent NY surgeon as I understand and NY approval for the purpose FOR clinicals might be around the corner in my opnion.In 1983 [may be in 82] I was with what was called University of Dominica [Now Ross Univ] and at that time Ross did not have much of facility and faculty /Small campus [just started few years back]and they were reviewed by CA and got approved,I believe based on the new Spartan website info with the number of basic sciences faculty[about 18 FT] and utilizing almost same hospitals as the other CA approved schools as well as the facilities [reasonable and school owned] and large # of estabilished grads that have proven practice records,they should have good chance of fresh start.
These days I believe any school can get by without NY or FL recognitions[its just to do clerkship] but its mandatory and a basic for survival to seek and get CA approvals,its a must.Now most states favor Ross,SGU,AUC and SABA,things are changing now and many have adopted CA list.

Opnion

Knight007

07-29-2008, 02:59 AM

In all honesty we are al Carib students here to help each other.... but I do not foresee Spartan getting Cali approval or even NY approval in the next 5-10 years unless the new owners make dramatic changes to the schools curriculum, examination leniency, professors, lack of teaching even by high school standards.

With that said... I have seen lots of Spartan graduates and many are practicing physicians....

UAGrocks!

07-29-2008, 11:20 PM

Spartan has not yet filed an evaluation by the Medical Board of California. The filing process takes a long time (1-2 years) and probably another several years before the state actually comes out to do a site evaluation and renders a decision. If you started at Spartan right now, the process for California approval might still be pending by the time you graduate. Also, those who are already Spartan students if/when California approves of the school will still not qualify for California licensure because they began when the school was still on the "disapproved" list. The problem with not being recognized in all 50 states is that it's still a black mark in states that do recognize Spartan. There are several schools in the Caribbean that ARE recognized in all 50 states. Exhaust those avenues before you think about Spartan.

Knight007

07-30-2008, 02:03 PM

yes.... Spartan would be the last school you apply to... after you've been rejected from everywhere....

or its an option for those who are self pay.... still its the last resort

Genossa maximillian

07-30-2008, 06:25 PM

SEVERAL?

Only 4, SGU, ROOS, AUC and the other one...SABA. I don't believe that is several. I do not count UWI because that is a league of its own, out of the reach of most in these forums.

Spartan has not yet filed an evaluation by the Medical Board of California. The filing process takes a long time (1-2 years) and probably another several years before the state actually comes out to do a site evaluation and renders a decision. If you started at Spartan right now, the process for California approval might still be pending by the time you graduate. Also, those who are already Spartan students if/when California approves of the school will still not qualify for California licensure because they began when the school was still on the "disapproved" list. The problem with not being recognized in all 50 states is that it's still a black mark in states that do recognize Spartan. There are several schools in the Caribbean that ARE recognized in all 50 states. Exhaust those avenues before you think about Spartan.

Genossa maximillian

07-30-2008, 06:26 PM

And that, coming from a St. Mathews student (rejected by California) is a lot to say. ;)

yes.... Spartan would be the last school you apply to... after you've been rejected from everywhere....

or its an option for those who are self pay.... still its the last resort

Knight007

07-30-2008, 11:00 PM

And that, coming from a St. Mathews student (rejected by California) is a lot to say. ;)

... good for you if you like Spartan.... but the fact is that Spartan
in its current state can not even afford to dream of NY approval....

I give the benefit of doubt to Spartan school.... but Spartan has done
absolutely NOTHING to improve teaching quality or the lack thereof..

Honestly....if you are a Spartan student...then you know all your exams..and teaching is bogus...

intern_doc

07-31-2008, 02:16 PM

Knight007

08-01-2008, 12:50 AM

And how do you knows that there teaching is bogus ? Did you flunk out and applied to St.Math ?

:p funny.... I dont think we will ever see the day when SMU takes people
who flunk out of Spartan....

I know several people from my college who did go to Spartan...thats how

I havent made any inaccurate remarks about Spartan... it is what it is

Genossa maximillian

08-02-2008, 06:28 PM

Spartan, St. Matts, in the eyes of California are the same....not accepted. That is the current situation. NY is for rotations only, a different ball game, there are SPARTAN grads practicing in NY in case you didn't knew. And, nope I am not from Spartan, I know people that studied there though.

... good for you if you like Spartan.... but the fact is that Spartan
in its current state can not even afford to dream of NY approval....

I give the benefit of doubt to Spartan school.... but Spartan has done
absolutely NOTHING to improve teaching quality or the lack thereof..

Honestly....if you are a Spartan student...then you know all your exams..and teaching is bogus...

specialknyc

08-02-2008, 07:32 PM

... good for you if you like Spartan.... but the fact is that Spartan
in its current state can not even afford to dream of NY approval....

I give the benefit of doubt to Spartan school.... but Spartan has done
absolutely NOTHING to improve teaching quality or the lack thereof..

Honestly....if you are a Spartan student...then you know all your exams..and teaching is bogus...

Regarding NY I simply can not see the basis for your argument. The better question to ask is why would you post that statement? If in a couple of years NY approval is not completed I will agree with you, but I simply do not understand what special knowledge you have to say that SHSU is dreaming that they will get NY. There is not much to it if you want NY approval. You meet their standards (which the campus does) you apply for approval and then the state visits you. The school continues to pay lots of money for approval and eventually it is granted if the school continues to meet the various standards. At this point the school probably meets 95% or more of these standards. Your statement is just out of place. In my opinion.

I don't know. I have heard stories from friends of mine who attended SOM, Ross and St. Georges about students *knowing* there exams. A friend of mine told me about his roommate paying off a prof. at one of these schools for copies of his exam (in fact this student failed out of spartan and then attended the school he eventually graduated from). There are always ways for students, at any institution, to *know* their exams. The funny thing is this also happens at so many US schools, so it is not just a carib thing.

Do I believe this? - not sure.
Do I care? - not really.
Do you attend a carib. school? - I think so
Once practicing in the states, will you be regarded as exactly the same as a student from SHSU, Ross, St. Georges, SOM or some carib school that only produced one doctor before it had to close its doors? - YES

The point is I have heard *stories* from bitter students who left these schools to attend spartan, and it sounds like you have heard similar stories as well (I am sure people from each of these schools had heard things about other schools from which their collegues have transfered from). I just did not see the point of spreading rumor especially when you have nothing to do with any of these *stories* or the forums of schools in which you decide to post.

POPO

08-03-2008, 01:35 AM

Just a funny thing: I recently went to see the doctor for my immunization & medical form (spartan). He looks at the form, and he says "oh, Spartan!"...you make a good choice because it's a very good school".

So I asked him...you know Spartan?? (we are in Montreal). "Yes sure, I did my med school in the US + my residency there, and I have some of my friends in the US who come from Spartan, and they are very good physicians". I told him that from what I know, Spartan sometimes has to deal with a bad reputation in the US. And he told me Spartan in the US is recognized by other physicians for producing very good physicians. :shock::shock:

...and he was very serious about what he was telling me. The guy knew well Spartan, and even asked me: "is it still something as 5k per semester?".

A day before, another physician, the one who mades my vaccines, was very interested to know more about my project to go at Spartan. This guy made his med studies at the university of montreal, which is like one of the *** *** ****** in canada...and he was something like jalous when I told him I will do my rotations in the US.

Thus, the days before, I was almost shy at the idea to meet 2 montrealer physicians with a form from Spartan. But those 2 physicians considered me with respect and as if I was their buddy yet.

Knight007

08-04-2008, 10:51 PM

Spartan USED to be in the same league as Ross , AUC some 25 years ago roughly.....
and they lost their mojo and their reputation, and federal loans long time ago....

They produced some fine doctors who practice in lots of places....

But the topic was the present state of Spartan.....

At present ...its nowhere close to getting NY approval.

They dont list a single affiliated hospital...which is odd for a school that has been
around for so long...and the affiliations never stay long even if they get one.

specialknyc

08-04-2008, 11:33 PM

Yes the school has produced many find doctors who practice around the country and world. So have other institutions. Medical school is a serious business and 99% of the people who go through it are serious men and women looking to become professionals.

There *mojo* seems fine to me. Reputation is decent as far as I can tell. SHSU is a school that did not seek out massive growth but to simple produce the doctors it could without going through the growing pains that many other institutions went through. This is not necesarily a negative thing, it was just a choice the owner made. The only complaints I hear are from students who attend other schools or from students who have been asked to leave or left after not doing well. Although I still can not understand why students from different schools would have much to say about a topic they probably don't know much about.

As for the loans, I think it is very unfortunate that the loans were lost. But the loans have not been gone for a long time as you put it. This is a fairly recent event (about 1 1/2 years ago). As far as I know the school is seeking out private loans.

The school does not list their hospitals. However uncommon it may be, I do not see the problem with this. As for how long the affiliations last I think depends on how many students the school ends up sending to a given hospital. The school has maintained very small classes (as their mission statement stated they would), unlike other schools that accept 300 more students then they have room for, so filling positions at many different hospitals is simply not a possibility. If you have 20 students (lets say 10 from chicago, 5 from NY, and 5 from florida) what purpose does it serve to be affiliated with hospitals in Texas where spots will never be filled? Maybe I am oversimplifying this, but its just the way I see it. Either way I am fairly sure there will be more available hospitals as the school moves forward. sustainable growth appears to be in the pipeline. But again why would the school need as many as a larger school with a fraction of the students to fill the spots.

Now onto NY... In its present state NY should NOT be a problem. Like I said it does not take much to get a given states approval. You meet the requirments, the state inspects you and if everything is in place and the requierments are met they should approve the school. The schools campus is compliant with NY's requirements as far as I understand. The campus is more than sufficient for the number of students that attend (In fact they can double the incoming student load and still have room to spare). The library, although not a five million dollar library, is up to par. The rotations sites in chicago, ohio, maryland, florida, new york (these are the ones I looked into) are set up and meet the schools standards. So aside from other minor details and certain things the school will probably have to adhere to I really dont see how NY will be a problem. There is absolutely no concrete reason why SHSU would be denied state aproval. My guess is that within the next year or so (probably how long the process will take) approval will come through. And if by some small chance it does not I am certain that the school will do whatever it needs to for that approval. But again I must reiterate the school seems to be in a fine position to recieve NY approval.

mellsworth21

08-05-2008, 12:09 AM

So there is a general agreement that Spartan is heading in the right direction? At least the website is better, lol.

Knight007

08-05-2008, 01:24 AM

I'm sorry but I just dont have the time to argue with you about why Spartan will have "no problem getting NY approval" ..... keep that attitude and please do post
when you get NY approval.

DOCplucinski

08-05-2008, 09:09 AM

I'm sorry but I just dont have the time to argue with you about why Spartan will have "no problem getting NY approval" ..... keep that attitude and please do post
when you get NY approval.
while i'll agree with specialk that it doesn't take much for NY approval, there hasn't been a school in a long time that has gotten NY approval, out of all the startups that have been popping up everywhere. IAU has been trying for some time now and still doesn't have it. Windsor hasn't attempted it yet for reasons i don't understand.

we'll see what happens in the future but i don't think Spartan is the next school in the caribbean to get NY approval.

specialknyc

08-05-2008, 09:41 AM

Who knows if they will get NY. Just going to have to sit back and wait. The argument is that they are not deficient in any way, in my opinion, to meet the rules and regulations needed for approval.

diogenes

08-05-2008, 09:42 AM

Added to which they have very recently lost U.K. approval -GMC | Acceptable primary medical qualification (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/registration_applications/join_the_register/acceptable_primary_medical_qualification.asp#2)
I'm guessing this is due to the course length and locus issues discussed elsewhere on the Spartan forum some months ago.

specialknyc

08-05-2008, 11:37 AM

My guess is that is based only on the fact that SHSU offers an accelerated program which does not meet the minimum number of hours which the GMS lists:

"...a course of study comprising at least 5,500 hours (or four years full time equivalent study)."

I am unsure of any other reasons for the loss of GMC approval. That said I understand that the school will be adding a 5th semester within the next year or so. That added semester should not only solve the GMC problem but also help bolster SHSU for NY approval (time will tell though). There are currently students who are in the UK and from the looks of it will practice there. Maybe there is some way which this GMC thing can be worked around or with, but I am fairly certain that a couple of students are still heading to the UK with approval (it is possible that I have been misinformed on this. I did heard this from a friend of mine who said he is heading over there in a couple of months).

That is no way, from my understanding, reflects a substandard level of education. For example, St Matthew’s University is listed there, among other schools. I would not consider St Matthew’s University to be deficient in any way either, in fact I understand it to be a fine school.

08-05-2008, 01:18 PM

That is no way, from my understanding, reflects a substandard level of education. For example, St Matthew’s University is listed there, among other schools. I would not consider St Matthew’s University to be deficient in any way either, in fact I understand it to be a fine school.

Note AUC is also listed at the GMC site.

diogenes

08-05-2008, 01:34 PM

...................That is no way, from my understanding, reflects a substandard level of education. For example, St Matthew’s University is listed there, among other schools. I would not consider St Matthew’s University to be deficient in any way either, in fact I understand it to be a fine school.
Before World War III breaks out in the Caribbean I should point out that the GMC proscription mentioned above clearly refers to St. Matt's in its earlier Belize incarnation and not its current realization in the Caymans.

drforlife

08-09-2008, 02:35 PM

Note AUC is also listed at the GMC site.
k, explained.. they didn't send payperwork in time.. should be corrected soonn

classof2008

08-18-2008, 07:59 AM

There is usually a very close link between approvals in CA and NY, most often one using the others approval lists for guidance. With the new owners being based out of NY, clinicals in NY would most likely be the first one's offered by the new administration. This will hopefully smooth the way for approval from CA. In either event, currently having obtained clinicals in 48 states already, and having strong ties to the state of NY bodes well for the future of Spartan Medical.

Knight007

08-19-2008, 01:51 PM

specialknyc

08-24-2008, 09:57 PM

What strong ties to state of NY ? Theres not even one core affiliation
in NY listed for SPartan ...!

Considering that the new owner has worked in the field for over three decades at a major teaching hospital, I imagine he is very familiar with what NY considers when approving a school. Hence the strong ties to NYS. This is the same reason AUA was able to get approved within two years of opening (not positive on the timing) and also how Ross was able to get approved. They new what was needed and made sure they had it / got it. Simple as that. The school is seeking out NY approval, and I doubt very much that SHSU will do so without fully knowing what it will take.

Again time will tell...

cahsu2005

09-13-2008, 06:58 PM

specialknyc

09-15-2008, 11:57 AM

I know you...lol

Good luck at St Mathews bro.

-----------------------------------

As for NY...and CA......not in my time......not in my time....

I would hope so but for the last time....not in my time.

If they were serious about these states then I give them 5 years before approval. You don't want to apply for the states and get rejected. It is a good chunk of dough and there will be major changes before any applications to these states are sent. The waves will be felt by the students and we will see these posted online.

So far there have been gradual changes but I'm waiting for some significant ones because I believe the current changes are necessary and smart for the owner to maintain credibility and business sense of Spartan.

BHOOD who started this thread....where you disappear to in the desert? keep in touch bro

I hope you are wrong about the 5 year time line. There have been changes and new additions to the staff. I think most changes will happen if and when approved by NY. I think that will help increase (within its limits) the student body. With an increased cash flow coming (hopefully) more changes should be seen.

What I would like to see is:

1. Loans (understandable hard right now)
2. more step 1 preparation
3. a change in the classes (less step 2 classes...(we are one, if not the only school as far as I know with as many as 10 more classes than Ross, St. Mathews St. Georges etc.) I would like to see a 5th trimester aimed at preparing students for rotations with step 1 study time within it. Changing the 4th trimester classes to allow more time on basic science courses. As far as I know many other schools do not include many of the classes we take.

Kronos

09-15-2008, 12:23 PM

specialknyc

09-15-2008, 03:14 PM

learn from smu... don't apply for CA approval until you are absolutely ready with all the requirements, even if you have to fake the research facilities and get some bribes and hookers ready for the medical board on their campus visit...

spartan is far far away from CA approval, if SMU's experience is any indication. disapproval is the worst thing possible and it hits students hard

I agree. The schools is probably a min. of 3 years away. Realistically I would think 5 or more though. I think one important step on the road to CA approval is New York. Once (if) that milestone is crossed CA might be a pos. with lots more work and effort to meet their requirements.

m1kala21

09-16-2008, 03:47 PM

m1kala21

09-16-2008, 03:50 PM

Spartan will take 1-2 years before getting NY and FL. Add another year for CA if they are serious about it. I heard about the faculty changes and the review of the curriculum including a more intense fifth tri. Kudos to the new owners. But 28 years of the same management cannot be changed overnight. More hospitals in the U.S. YAY!!

specialknyc

09-16-2008, 03:52 PM

At least 500K to get surveyors from Florida, Texas and New York. NY Board of Med is no longer the same group of people who used to approve schools in the Caribbean. There have been some improvement in faculty rosters and clinical sites (New York, Chicago and Maryland sites). It is promising but we will have to see.

I feel it is promising as well. The improvements will hopefully bring SHSU one step closer to NY approval. Like I said before "time will tell". I personally do not see any reason for NY to not accept the school but of course I have no clue (beyond the basics that most of us would probably agree on) with regard to their exact requirements.

500K is a lot, I thought it would be more like 100-200K (guesses). Where did you get that number? (just curious)

cahsu2005

09-18-2008, 09:42 PM

Well specialK think of your 100-150K just for the 3 applications and the rest in the pockets of certain people....er....you catch my drift....
Maybe a huge party each trip for the oversee'rs plus gifts...
You can't say no to amazing gifts...;);)

At least 5Years...if Dr. R (NY) can do it sooner....I will be amazed, but possible if he really wanted to spend the cash and time.

azskeptic

09-18-2008, 09:47 PM

Special gifts in the US will end up getting you in prison.
Attempting to bribe a state official is a felony. Talk to some people who have witnessed the inspection tours in the past..they aren't parties.

Well specialK think of your 100-150K just for the 3 applications and the rest in the pockets of certain people....er....you catch my drift....
Maybe a huge party each trip for the oversee'rs plus gifts...
You can't say no to amazing gifts...;);)

At least 5Years...if Dr. R (NY) can do it sooner....I will be amazed, but possible if he really wanted to spend the cash and time.