Caribbean Med Student Competitiveness?

[crazycrab]

Hi guys: :) I have a few questions regarding our situation
1. How more competitive do we need to be to get a spot in Residency? Say I want a spot in Radiology and other US med student can get a residency spot with a 70 percentile in USMLE score and do i need a 85?
2. On average for residency, how long do we (as Carib med students) need to wait from the point we apply till getting it, for example in Radiology, anesthetics, etc.?
3. When do we take Step 1 and 2?
Thank you guys in advance :P

[Scylin]

1. I don't know if there's an easy way of determining how much better you'd need to be than a US med student. It'll depend on what specialty, which program, and your scores/grades/ECs/LORs. Whether you need a visa will also affect your chances.
2. US and non-US medical students all participate in the same matching program for US residencies. You can submit your application to ERAS as early as the beginning of September (and it's advised you do this as early as possible). The interview period for all applicants is the same few months, but when you interview of course depends on where you applied, when, and how competitive you are. All lists are due at the same time, and all matches are announced on the same day. Caribbean students don't have a different timetable for this than anyone else.
3. Step 1 is taken after you finish basic sciences (first 2 years). Step 2 is normally taken after finishing your core clinical rotations in year 3, but there's a bit of leeway (couple months) in this depending on when you want to take it and how good your scores are. People with weaker Step 1 scores might want to take Step 2 earlier to have good grades to submit in September with their residency application (as opposed to submitting the Step 2 scores a month or two later).

Take all of these answers with a grain of salt - I haven't gone through this process yet, but this is what I've learned from reading others' posts. Any more experienced people are free to correct any of this or offer other opinions.

[stephew]

please do a little reading here first. you'll get a better sense of the various levels of competitiveness for a given field.

[shadyhtown]

Most foreign grads will find it very difficult to get into competitive residencies like Radiology or Anesthesiology, unless they're exceptional students (in which case they'd have gotten into a US school anyway).

[rokshana]

Most foreign grads will find it very difficult to get into competitive residencies like Radiology or Anesthesiology, unless they're exceptional students (in which case they'd have gotten into a US school anyway).

so then why are there IMGs in those fields?

its about scores...they get you through the door...as a new med student you need to focus on learning the basic - i mean really learning and understanding the material - and aim to get the highest step I score you can (and BTW its NOT a %tile, just a 2 digit score and a 75 is PASS, so aim for a 70 and you are in trouble...)...do a search, look on the nrmp website and see what scores are the norm for rads (many programs have a min score ~ 220/91ish(the 2 digit will change from year to year)...everything you need to do to get rads you can worry about when you get up to clinicals..

[cavalletti]

Most foreign grads will find it very difficult to get into competitive residencies like Radiology or Anesthesiology, unless they're exceptional students (in which case they'd have gotten into a US school anyway).

Here's link to SGU's '08 match list for anesthesiology http://www.sgu.edu/ERD/2008/ResidPost.nsf/CurrentYear?SearchView&Query=anesthesiology&count=-1

[shadyhtown]

Of course, I didn't say it was impossible - just difficult. Less than 5% of SGU students match into Anesthesiology. For Radiology and Dermatology, it's a fraction of a percent. The vast majority (more than half) match into IM.

[rokshana]

Of course, I didn't say it was impossible - just difficult. Less than 5% of SGU students match into Anesthesiology. For Radiology and Dermatology, it's a fraction of a percent. The vast majority (more than half) match into IM.

that concept is misleading--you need to know how many sgu students APPLIED to anesthesia to make any judgement on the number. Sure there are 5-600 people graduating, but not all of them went for anes- THEN 5% would be horrible. If however 30 people went for anes and all of them got it, well then that would be impressive (THAT however is NOT the case)

what you need to know is how many applied to make any statements on how difficult it is to get those competitive residencies (and you have an idea of how many in your class, but even then you'll be off- otherwise you have no idea...

[jaywalk81]

if you want to do rads, you better aim for a 90 and above on usmle 1, probably a 95 is safer for caribbean grads.

btw 75 is passing so if you aim 70, u be failing.

and like rok said, it is NOT a %tile!

[cavalletti]

Of course, I didn't say it was impossible - just difficult. Less than 5% of SGU students match into Anesthesiology. For Radiology and Dermatology, it's a fraction of a percent. The vast majority (more than half) match into IM.

Radiology matches

http://www.sgu.edu/ERD/2008/ResidPost.nsf/CurrentYear?SearchView&Query=radiology&count=-1

[Chemiosmotic]

Work hard, and do well on your steps and you will open your own doors.

Anyone who says that you can't do a residency based only on where you decided to go to medical school is probably not one dedicated enough to try.

So, be the best.

Get 99/99 on both boards, or as close as you can in order to equalize yourself with the top applicants from the United States.

Get active in research EARLY. Do it at home during your summer breaks. Get your name out there in ANY way possible, even if its just a small journal. Do some footwork to see which people have clout in your field of interest (for derm, see if there's any semi big-wigs from the american board of derm in the area and introduce yourself, see if you can rotate in their program or shadow them) Get an advocate on your side. Research which authors wrote the top 50 most ground breaking papers in the last 20 years and see if you can do an away rotation at a place where any of these people might be working. Chairman's letters a good, but lots of people have them. Regardless, all these things lead to research leads, better than normal LOR's and perhaps in some cases credibility.

None of these things are easy. They are only there for those who have the diligence to search them out.

But, keep in mind, you may have to do an extra year or two of research after graduating, or there is always the hope of transferring after 2nd or even 3rd year at St. George's.

Also, this year was an exception year for SGU. We had quite an impressive number of competitive residencies (not as good as a US school, but considerably better than many of our previous classes).
EM 28, Anesthesia 20, Neuro 19, Categorical surgery 14, Rads 11, Ortho 3, Rad Onc 2, Urology 1, Ophthomology 1.

Now, all of these people did NOT have 99's, and they probably did all do many of the steps I outlined, but they still did got into their specialty of choice.

[kauquah]

Also, this year was an exception year for SGU. We had quite an impressive number of competitive residencies (not as good as a US school, but considerably better than many of our previous classes).
EM 28, Anesthesia 20, Neuro 19, Categorical surgery 14, Rads 11, Ortho 3, Rad Onc 2, Urology 1, Ophthomology 1.


Nice....................

[ecela7]

out of interest, how competitive is psych these days?

[DrFraud]

out of interest, how competitive is psych these days?

do you have a pulse?

[AngryBaby]

out of interest, how competitive is psych these days?
not very

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf

see page 16

[AngryBaby]

and, though I don't have data handy to back this up, I'm pretty sure the VP's claim of $250k/yr avg for psych is an exaggeration.

[Kongakut]

Self-reported physician salaries here (http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm). Psych reported to be 149K min to 238K max for general and up to 265K for child/adolescent.

[ecela7]

and, though I don't have data handy to back this up, I'm pretty sure the VP's claim of $250k/yr avg for psych is an exaggeration.Yeah I visited the salaries website and I wondered about what he said. Mind you, I think he has his fingers in several pies.

What wonderful hours though........

[ecela7]

do you have a pulse?Ok Dr Fraud, I get it. Not a fan of Freud either, ay?

[AngryBaby]

Self-reported physician salaries here (http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm). Psych reported to be 149K min to 238K max for general and up to 265K for child/adolescent.
I check out that site from time to time too problem is it was last updated 2 years ago and I can never seem to get to the page that has local reported salaries, just the national avgs on that page which isn't a heck of a lot of good.

[crazycrab]

Thanks guys!!! really helpful info! Btw how come so many ppl got into IM? Is it mainly because it's less competitive, or is it that ppl just like IM?

[jaywalk81]

IM has more specialty/fellowship options and also it is one of the few less competitive residency