Quit dumping US rejects in uk shores!

[natsuo]

Dear all,

I write this as a disgruntled SGU student. Currently one of the best teaching schools in the uk is under investigation due to a malicious student writing a letter of complaint.
Now we brits dont mind, if some students after failing step 1 decide to kick off their clinicals here, however it has to be noted not all students here in the uk are in the same boat. Most of us have passed the steps and are here through choice.
Recently a letter was sent by a student (and due to his eagerness to gloat, he forwarded it to all and sundry), who suggested that all sgu students in the uk were step 1 failures. He also stated that he was victimised and discriminated against due to the colour of his skin. This student's claims are slanderous and disgraceful. Many good sgu employers have been named in this letter and his claims are totally unfounded.
It has left a dark shadow over a hospital that has for years been an excellent experience for all the students that have gone there. He has previously played the race card, and had grades in his clinical cores changed. He sent abusive threatening emails to fellow students, he did not turn up to hospital on a regular basis and in another trust he was caught accessing disturbing poronography sites which led to future sgu students being banned from accessing their sgu email.
The problem is that this guy was on the radar as not meeting the standard of being a doctor, even back in Grenada. He was sent here after completing surgery in the US after his first failure at step . Sgu now are now faced with this situation as they refused to quit taking fee's and telling this student he wouldnt practice as a doctor. The administration need to address this situation as other students in the uk are tired off being 'tarred with the same brush'. Students like the afore mentioned give sgu a bad name. We are embarrassed by such students and it discredits the quality of our degree. Some of you may think that in uk we dont get as good training but thats not the case. True we might not have to attend hospital as often as our US counterparts, but we have more exposure to attending's direct teaching and are not subject to paper chasing or having to act on newly qualified resident's whims! We learn to become very good doctors by looking for clinical signs and we dont have the luxury of running a battery of tests..we learn to go with our instincts and therefore its good training if you want to work in developing countries or doctors without borders.
But this latest scandal only highlights the problem we have, of not -up-to stratch students threatening our reputation. I mean this guy after doing his rotation was asked to take a radial pulse....he went to the patient's groin!! But hey, least its better than another flunky student...who diagnosed bilateral aneurysm...when she saw the JVP on both side of a patient's neck!
I'm hoping your getting my point....these students need to be weeded out before they get to clinicals for all our sakes.
N.

[xentar]

lol @ the accessing disturbing pornography at the hospital. that's a class act!

[AngryBaby]

what exactly is "disturbing pornography"?

and where do I find it?

haha....just kidding...

[xentar]

.............

[rokshana]

to the OP--the problem lies in the fact that sgu does not require students to take the USMLE as a requirement for advancement or graduation. Basically its because not all students are heading to the US for residency--afterall there are many students from the UK, the caribbean basinm etc that never plan to set foot in the US for clinicals or residency and it would be unfair , IMHO, to make these students take a US licensing exam if the are not planning to go to the US.

If the UK had a test and regs similar to the USMLE then that could be used as a filter, but to my knowledge there is no such exam while in med school,only after it.

unfortunately there will always been students like that regardless whether they pass USMLE or not and there are plenty of people who, while not performing well on those said exams are fantastic in clinicals

sounds like that guy would be a tool on either side of the pond...

[jaywalk81]

there are also students like that with us at the US clinical cites

[firecracker]

I haven't posted for some years now, but the above thread effects me too.
I have a scholarship and came from the uk to sgu. My scholarship suggested that I should return to the uk to work when I was qualified and this has been my intention. I'm in the uk in 4th yr, and I do find that we have a lot of students who have been forced to come here as they have failed the step 1 once or twice. I would say we probably have a greater proportion of less able students mixed with good students from other countries and those from the uk. People sending letters like the above saddens me and I wonder why sgu focuses on this when their is a far greater issue needed to be addressed the fact that uk students are receiving a second rate service compare to US students.
It is true there is no exam that can be taken during your clinicals in the uk other than the sgu leaving exam. After you qualify you must take the plab part 1(an MCQ, of clinical scenarios, much like step 2) and then plab part 2(a sixteen station osce) before you can registered with the General Medical Council of Great Britain. I have a good academic record, GPA 3.8 and I have taken the step 1 successfully but plan to stay in the uk. After my cores, I took the bold step of apply and sitting plab part 1. Sgu have an 'old' arrangement with the GMC that allows sgu students to take part 1 after they have finished their 80 weeks, so yes, I took it early. However I don't believe any student has taken advantage of the agreement and most wait until they have their diploma or go home to other countries, take time off or head to america. Its become harder to pass plab, and you are taking the exam alongside foreign doctors who have worked for a minimum of 2 years in other countries. So when I passed I was pleased. I was also allowed to sit the sgu leaving exam in May this year and sailed through the exam, but I don't finish my clinicals until the first week in november. I wanted to apply for plab part 2 in December but you must bring your diploma with you and I wont have mine until the end of december so I contacted the uk office to see if they could help me. They were aware that I had taken the part 1 and when I asked for help I was sent a negative letter by the uk dean, whom I had never met or spoken with. I was also told I was wrongly allowed to sit the leaving exam by the uk and bayshore offices.
In all honestly I think sgu should have used me as an example and tried to strike a new deal with the gmc, allowing us to sit the plab part 1 after cores and then plab part 2 after completion of 80 weeks clinicals. There appears to be no effort in improving uk employment yet I see that the Texas electives has been investigated with great robustness.

I currently am set to graduate in dec 2008,

1. I will sit plab part 2 after a lengthy period of doing nothing till january 2009.

2. Since the deadline for FY1/FY2 (ie residency) positions for aug 2009 is early dec 2008 I am not able to apply as I don't have a degree issued.

3. I can apply for junior doctor positions as soon as I pass part 2 and am registered, however these positions will not be viewed as part of my training and therefore I will theoretically not be able to start official residency until Aug 2010, by then most of you will be well into your residency training.

My concerns are only further confirmed when I talk to uk office and i'm informed 'well this is an american system university' then why do you come to the uk university fayres? why do you mislead us and say we can get jobs easily on our return?
There is also a far greater problem looming in the horizon. A bill was passed in government that states 'no foreign graduates can apply for training position' (aka IMG's can't apply for residencies) It is currently at the Lords and being appealed against. But if this does pass, uk students who go to sgu will NOT be able to work in the UK.
Dr Wiseman should be addressing this and not letters from dubious students! Thats why many of us uk students, are in a rush to get into the medical system before bills like these are passed.
FC

[Silenthunder]

I agree with alot of what was said above.

I'd suggest giving up on trying to get SGU to change its ways.

as with so many other things at SGU, fighting the system is futile.

I know this sounds cynical - but I'm much more content as a student after coming to terms with the idea that SGU is a money making institution that uses me for money. I use it for getting my MD. thats about as far as our relationship goes.

Cheers,

Silenthunder

[envivany1]

You do have to pass BSCE II to do clinicals in the UK. British medical students don't have to take a standardized exam before starting clinicals, forcing sgu students to do so would be discrimination. There is nothing wrong with the fact that students that fail have an option to start clinicals while studying to take step 1 over. I personally opted to do the first 6 months there, i started even before my scores came out, and yes there were a lot of people that had failed step 1 there, but so what, it didn't mean that they were sloppy students who didn't take medicine seriously, if you think so, then that is just straight up discrimination. Besides PLAB is a pretty easy exam, why would anyone want to pay money to take test required for licensure in a country where you never plan to practise?
And being a person of color, myself and several of my friends were discriminated againgst several times, and i personally had to deal with some sexual harassment, and guess what? this can happen to anyone anywhere, people have the right to complain if they believe they their conditions are unfair, it is the American way! And you might be surprised to hear that we have students with poor clinical knowledge and ethics here in the states too, sgu students, American medical students, yeah. Bad apples are seen everywhere. And last time I checked the British hospitals were desperate for more sgu students, because students definitely bring income to the hospitals (we know british student barely pay any tuition), the hospitals aint complaining

[soweto]

....Colored people have always been discriminated against......It has not started, and won't at SGU.....on the island, hospital settings in USA or UK colored students do not get the respect that they deserve....its the same stereotype everywhere.....they are being juged by their color, not by the content of their brain.....Knowing that, its up to the brothers and sisters to work harder, and show that they know soemthing..... Stop crying, it wont change nothing!
I must confess that some fellas easily pull out the race card to cover up their mediocrity.
Mediocrity and slackers exist everywhere. But when you re Black, it gets so obvious and amplified....so watch out brothers and sisters, and work hard....dont let noone bring you down....you can do it.

[Never Mind the Bollocks]

"Students of color" or "minority students" is probably a better way of putting that.

[grayeyes043]

"Students of color" or "minority students" is probably a better way of putting that.

True...if the person was American...but if they were from South AFrican or any of the neighboring regions...Colored person would be a correct term for those who aren't black nor white.

[cooolguy]

my question is this: if you cant get a residency position in the states, what do u do with your life? i mean after 250k+ in debt, and no other training (for most of us), what do u do?

[ecela7]

Let's take race out of the equation shall we; it is wearing really thin by now. I could moan about Morehouse rejecting me once they saw my mandatory submitted photograph.......