rotations are a waste of time.

[got milk?]

I'm at a point where I ask "when is it gonna end!!!???!!"
i seem to always get the rotations that have the longest hours........ with the worst hours-to-teaching ratio and lots of paperwork and senseless crap

i've wasted so many hours at the hospital, when i should be home studying for the usmle. Countless test questions I can't answer because of time I lack to study.


there should be a 20 hour weekly cap on rotations.

spending 8 hours (11 hours with commute) a day running around the hospital, only to learn a tidbit here and there is a pull-my-hair-out waste of time.

by the time you get home, and after you eat dinner, you're exhausted and can't study effectively.

[got milk?]

reminds me of surgery, where you're just a tool to hold the retractors and push the stretchers around.

You can't do surgical procedures (obviously), so why the hell do they make you stay at the hospital the whole day?


you say- bring a book and study during down time. that works. but sometimes you actually do spend your whole day doing completely POINTLESS chasing of patients, data, etc.

[gschneid]

Would you mind telling us what hospitals you have rotated at so we know which ones to avoid?

[butterflymd]

GSchneid you are hilarious. Please do tell us what hospitals those are since they all are different. I suggest that when you get home you take an hour power nap and then rise shower, drink a cup of java and hit the books. I used to work full time (couldn't leave my job) then have to go full time classes in the evening and have to study as well, have a kid and hubbie to feed so you have to manage your time. I would just take a nap, shower drink coffee and it felt like another day and then I would hit the books again. It is extremely hard but you are going to need to reach for that inner strenght because residency will be hell for sure and they don't care if you are exhausted, you are like a fireman rise and shine any time of night and your mental acuity cannot falter. For some reason it seems all codes happen from 2-5am just when you are hitting that REM. How do I know this information I was a hospital administrator for 5 years that had to pull straight 24-48 hours right along with the residents. I had an office with a bed in it on resident quarters. I would have to respond to all codes just like they did and then inform the family of the patients demise and or travel to the morgue for unwrapping of bodies for identification purposes (mostly gunshot wounds and or stabbings).

I say find a center and try to get the emotions under wraps because you will drain yourself in the process thinking about the negative aspects of the rotation and won't have any energy left for the good stuff (studying). I hope this helps.

Good Luck

[the_punisher]

Would you mind telling us what hospitals you have rotated at so we know which ones to avoid?

i think there should be a seperate thread for a list of good and bad hospitals....

[butterflymd]

Good idea punisher but will you really have a choice after you are already there. I don't think that once you start a rotation you can leave or is that possible? I say make the best of it. Medicine is not an easy task and not for the light hearted there will way too many instances where you have to rise to unpleasant occasions. There will be times when you are dead tired but still researching things and ruling out others to make sure you make the right admitting diagnosis and your attending does not look at you like a complete idiot. So whatever little you learn in a rotation take it and run with it. It will eventually come in handy for residency.

[Jeep23Guy]

You can't do surgical procedures (obviously), so why the hell do they make you stay at the hospital the whole day?
I was actually allowed to "1st assist" on many surgical procedures (ie. perform the procedure from incision to closure). Mostly they were inguinal hernias, but I got to do some others like a toe amp, bka, and even a huge portion of a colectomy. That made surgery pretty awesome.

[JTP73]

Do your homework on the medical facility. Some good, some ok, some not so good. My surgery site has been nothing like the OP. This one has been mostly OR time, with some clinic, and minimal floorwork. Very active involvement in surgey cases (read: actually taking part, not just retracting). Work hard, and the LORs will follow.

[UFTim]

I'm at a point where I ask "when is it gonna end!!!???!!"
i seem to always get the rotations that have the longest hours........ with the worst hours-to-teaching ratio and lots of paperwork and senseless crap

i've wasted so many hours at the hospital, when i should be home studying for the usmle. Countless test questions I can't answer because of time I lack to study.


there should be a 20 hour weekly cap on rotations.

spending 8 hours (11 hours with commute) a day running around the hospital, only to learn a tidbit here and there is a pull-my-hair-out waste of time.

by the time you get home, and after you eat dinner, you're exhausted and can't study effectively.

Maybe I"m crazy, but I always get disappointed if I have to work less than 40 hrs a week. I'm in medical school!!!! I had one rotation that was almost 80 hrs a week. I still went home and studied.

The rest of our life is not going to be easy either unless you go into Derm.

[butterflymd]

UF Tim that is the spirit. There is nothing easy about medicine and or mastering the art of it. It requires time and lots of patience even when you have none left in your body. Whatever we learned will be put to good use later on during residency and in your private and or hospital jobs respectively. I am not trying to be a hard person but we have to give patients our best even when we don't feel our best. Perhaps that is why the US Healthcare has gone down the drain because we have lost some of the passion of practicing medicine. Everything is not as perfect as they make it seem on the ER shows.

Let's keep the spirit up and working less than 40 hours a week during residency and rotations is not realistic at all. Tim for chief resident in the very near future and that is who I want to be learning under someone who gives their all and then keeps on giving. You don't want a doc giving up on your chest compressions because it is taking too long.

[camryllionareMD]

At one time, was it, 5 yrs ago? They put a cap on not being able to work residents over like 60hrs a week I think was the figure. So the baton then got graciously passed onto us. I've worked at 2 jobs sometimes 3 at a time and so the consolation now is that at least I'm working towards a goal where I get paid more than the $8/hr or $5/hr when I bagged groceries.

[butterflymd]

Cam that is a positive attitude. Believe me when I tell you working full time and going to school full time is not easy. I have had to rise to the occasion during my undergraduate and graduate school years. I just had to reach inside and muster all the strength that I could to accomplish the task. Its never easy but doable. ;)

[UFTim]

At one time, was it, 5 yrs ago? They put a cap on not being able to work residents over like 60hrs a week I think was the figure. So the baton then got graciously passed onto us. I've worked at 2 jobs sometimes 3 at a time and so the consolation now is that at least I'm working towards a goal where I get paid more than the $8/hr or $5/hr when I bagged groceries.

80hr/week cap for residents, but there are a lot of them that work longer and "clock in and out" so it looks like 80 in order to avoid getting their residency program in trouble.

One student was complaining about not enough time for studying (heck we all were), and the program director responded saying, "You work until you're done. There is no cap for medical student's hours--just residents."

[smu79]

i'm At A Point Where I Ask "when Is It Gonna End!!!???!!"
I Seem To Always Get The Rotations That Have The Longest Hours........ With The Worst Hours-to-teaching Ratio And Lots Of Paperwork And Senseless Crap

I've Wasted So Many Hours At The Hospital, When I Should Be Home Studying For The Usmle. Countless Test Questions I Can't Answer Because Of Time I Lack To Study.


there Should Be A 20 Hour Weekly Cap On Rotations.

Spending 8 Hours (11 Hours With Commute) A Day Running Around The Hospital, Only To Learn A Tidbit Here And There Is A Pull-my-hair-out Waste Of Time.

By The Time You Get Home, And After You Eat Dinner, You're Exhausted And Can't Study Effectively.

Move Closer To The Hospital

[smu79]

I was actually allowed to "1st assist" on many surgical procedures (ie. perform the procedure from incision to closure). Mostly they were inguinal hernias, but I got to do some others like a toe amp, bka, and even a huge portion of a colectomy. That made surgery pretty awesome.

i did too...granted for me i had to take a little bit of initiative....

the poster seems to be asking for part time clinicals....breaking news....medicine is hard....we all have to rotations, study...and for some of us, raise a family....sleep is over rated!!!!

if you work hard, it will pay off.

[smu79]

Maybe I"m crazy, but I always get disappointed if I have to work less than 40 hrs a week. I'm in medical school!!!! I had one rotation that was almost 80 hrs a week. I still went home and studied.

The rest of our life is not going to be easy either unless you go into Derm.

hah...during my surg rotation...i did q3 for a whole month...and i loved it.

[WSUCougar]

I suggest that when you get home you take an hour power nap and then rise shower, drink a cup of java and hit the books. I used to work full time (couldn't leave my job) then have to go full time classes in the evening and have to study as well, have a kid and hubbie to feed so you have to manage your time. I would just take a nap, shower drink coffee and it felt like another day and then I would hit the books again.

Thanks for giving me severe chest pains, due to myself experiencing some extreme episodes of flashbacks. I use to work as an EMT in the ER, working 12 hour night shifts monday thru thursday, where I'd get off @ 7am, then my first undergrad class would start at 7:30am. So I'd hit up Starbucks on the way, change out of my scrubs in the schools parking lot, and then go to class and get dehydrated from all the saliva that would fall from the corner of my mouth, while trying to keep the number of face impacts on my desk to a minimum. Then I'd go home around 4pm, and fall into delta sleep stage in a matter of seconds.

For some reason it seems all codes happen from 2-5am just when you are hitting that REM.

no joke.... or for me it usually happened about 15 minutes before the end of my shift. :shock:

I say find a center and try to get the emotions under wraps because you will drain yourself in the process thinking about the negative aspects of the rotation and won't have any energy left for the good stuff (studying). I hope this helps.


I agree with what Tim was saying. I always overheard docs telling Med Students that the 80hr cap "only applies to Residents, not Med Students". There's not a whole lot you can do about it either, because a lot of Med Students that I talked with in the ER, Med Floor, Surgery departments, were all having the same complaints but stated to me that the last thing they were going to do was complain about it. Especially when LOR's, and Preceptor Evaluations are all at stake.

The best advice I have is to just be proactive and enthusiastic about being there, even if you hate it. I noticed that the docs made life a living nightmare for the students that they "knew" didn't want to be there. By making them do petty jobs and staying wayyyy longer than they normally would.

Funny scenario I have is.. one time a nurse asked me to take a pt by stretcher up to the Med Floor, right after I agreed, I was interrupted by one of the docs who said "no.... have one of the Med Students do it, you (meaning me) come help me set and cast this wrist fracture... LOL....

as I'm walking in the room with the doc, I asked "shouldn't you actually have one of the students do this, instead of pushing stretchers around". Doc says "yes, but they're lazy, don't want to be here, and extremely annoying." While on the other hand I saw the same docs give hard-working, proactive students more learning opportunities intubating pts, etc and having them go home earlier to study. Good attitude, proactive character, limitless amount of patience, and good people skills will go a long way in maximizing your clinical experience.

[Godschosenone]

Everybody has to pay their dues
just keep your head down and get on with it.

[JTP73]

Just did my exit interview today with one of the surgery attendings. She said that the Harvard residents here love the SMU students because the Harvard med students they also work with at another hospital are generally lazy and uninterested. She informed us that they love having SMU students because they have been hard-working, intelligent, interested, and motivated to become solid physicians. Call is Q4 for the 3 month rotation, but a great way to see a lot of different things. You won't see much from home. Studying between cases saves a lot of time. Many chances for first assist. I have done them on hernias, colectomies, BKA/AKAs, toe amps, several vascular cases, and even a reduction mammoplasty. Some of these cases are 3rd and 4th year cases too.

But I can agree that the wrong rotations are a waste of time; though time is what you make of it. Study smart.

[butterflymd]

Cougar that sounds familiar. The lazier you are the more patient care tech work you get instead of the things that medical students should be doing. I say just try to get an eager beaver attitude rather than the when do I get to home attitude because they enslave you just to aggravate you they know exactly what they are doing (those attendings).
Because I have had to multitask a good portion of my life I have gotten used to the hard work so it is just second nature but I have seen some people crumble under the pressure. Cougar for me it was the opposite I actually went to class in the am during undergrad and then did the ER tech position for 4 years from 3-11pm and then the 11p-7am person would not show up and they would beg me to stay. After I graduated and went to do the administrator stuff then I had a full time job doing research all week long in a cancer hospital and would enter the other hospital on Fridays at 11pm and not leave there until Sunday evening 11pm. My life was nuts (administrator in one of the worst neighborhoods of Brooklyn, Bed Stuy) man. I can't even tell you how many times I went to class in scrubs looking tired as heck. So tired you start hearing that permanent ringing in your brain like ok it is time to go to sleep but you can't because you are a non-stop beeper high. LOL.

It takes a certain manicness to be able to withstand all those hours but hey I am still alive and learned alot. For those with the added level of a family believe me you just learn to make things happen. :p

[WSUCougar]

Just did my exit interview today with one of the surgery attendings. She said that the Harvard residents here love the SMU students because the Harvard med students they also work with at another hospital are generally lazy and uninterested. She informed us that they love having SMU students because they have been hard-working, intelligent, interested, and motivated to become solid physicians. Call is Q4 for the 3 month rotation, but a great way to see a lot of different things. You won't see much from home. Studying between cases saves a lot of time. Many chances for first assist. I have done them on hernias, colectomies, BKA/AKAs, toe amps, several vascular cases, and even a reduction mammoplasty. Some of these cases are 3rd and 4th year cases too.

But I can agree that the wrong rotations are a waste of time; though time is what you make of it. Study smart.

very good news. it always helps when "we" Carib students feel as though we have something to prove, due to the Carib stigma.

now if you could have this attending put the word to a couple dozen more hospitals, we'll be all good....:cool:

[AmericanIMG]

i personally believe that the way the system is set up, rotations are for minimal learning and more for scut work and observation. you don't really learn jack until you are a resident.

if clinicals taught us a lot then there wouldn't be the intern year (where everyone assumes you know nothing).

every now and again you'll have a great attending who takes the time out to teach and bring you in on great surgeries, but mostly the good stuff is for residents.

[got milk?]

Maybe I"m crazy, but I always get disappointed if I have to work less than 40 hrs a week. I'm in medical school!!!! I had one rotation that was almost 80 hrs a week. I still went home and studied.



the quality of our rotations probably differed, by a lot.


anyhow, all I care about now is getting my ck/cs overwith. i wish more of my rotations taught for step 2, that's why i'm disappointed. Instead of teaching us high-yield bits, we're doing monkey work.

i shoulda got myself a trunk monkey.

http://prblog.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/trunkmonkey_1.jpg

[rynobuddy]

Super attitude from Tim. That's the we we do things coming from UF. Haha. Go Gators!

That said I am doing an elective right now that is only about 2-3 hours a day and I love it. Ample time for study, etc. Being the second to last rotation for me, I do not mind one bit. As long as I am learning in that time I do not care.

Everyone just keep up the good work.