Is the Rotation situation improving

[sairam84]

Hello everyone,
I have been accepted at ROSS and i am waiting to pay the seat deposit because of the ROTATION problem...but the post on VMD about rotation problems are from 2007....wondering if it has gotten any better now? Any 3rd and 4 year students currently going through the system...your input would be invaluable. Thanks in advance for your time.

[DrunkenDancer]

Hello everyone,
I have been accepted at ROSS and i am waiting to pay the seat deposit because of the ROTATION problem...but the post on VMD about rotation problems are from 2007....wondering if it has gotten any better now? Any 3rd and 4 year students currently going through the system...your input would be invaluable. Thanks in advance for your time.

I don't think the situation has gotten any better as I know people who had peds and ob/gyn as their last rotations recently . . . if you want to do either of these for residency you are SCREWED as you won't have any electives for them, and also you won't be as well prepared to take USMLE Step 2 CK.

I don't think the situation will get any better. I had such a problem commmunicating with Ross administration/faculty advisors i.e. emails disappear into thin air (does anybody answer their emails any more?) and having to call to schedule stuff that they know we have to take anyway. If you don't have really thick skin then don't go to Ross as it will be VERY frustrating.

The situation won't improve because it is like a bottleneck or traffic jam . . . to fix it they would have to give 3rd AND 4th years their peds and ob/gyn rotations in one year, but this will never happen and can't happen as these spots don't exist, the limited number of peds and ob/gyn spots go first to fourth year who are graduating and the smaller percentage goes to third years. . .

I don't feel as highly respected as Ross student when compared to someone who went to SGU or SABA . . . I should have gone their first, nicer island too in SGU case!

For example, lets say there are 500 peds spots for the fiscal year 2008-2009, and lets say that there are 500 graduating students i.e. fourth years and 500 new third years:

500 peds spots for year 2008/2009:
---------------------------------
400 go to fourth years (some had peds in third year)
100 go to third years, there are 400 third years without spots . . .

so when the fiscal year 2009/2010 rolls around you have:

500 peds spots for year 2009/2010:
---------------------------------
400 go to fourth years (remember these are the guys/gals who didn't get peds as a third year0
100 go to third years (most don't get peds as third year).

So you can see that the cycle is self-perpetuating, the day the problem is fixed is the day that there is double the number of peds spots, for example:

1000 peds spots for year 2010/2011
---------------------------------
400 go to fourth years who couldn't get peds
500 or so go to third years so everybody can take it as a third year

Problem is that for the year 2011/2012 you would only need again 500 peds spots:

500 peds spots for year 2011/2012
-----------------------------------
0 go to fourth years as all have taken peds
500 go to third years who all get peds in third year

I don't think this problem will ever be solved as more third and fourth years would love/need to take peds than the system could provide in one year, and the left out third years become foruth years who must have those peds spots, end of story

This is what is called a VISCIOUS CYCLE because it is self-perpetuating and there is no way to win or escape it!!

[kryptik]

Hello everyone,
I have been accepted at ROSS and i am waiting to pay the seat deposit because of the ROTATION problem...but the post on VMD about rotation problems are from 2007....wondering if it has gotten any better now? Any 3rd and 4 year students currently going through the system...your input would be invaluable. Thanks in advance for your time.
what have you been waiting for, acceptance from another school?

[jjmalu]

As someone that just got their schedule and is about to start rotations, it probably has improved somewhat since the posts in 2007.

My initial schedule has all my cores scheduled, except surgery. The negatives are I will be taking step 2ck next July, but i will not start peds until August, and there is a good chance that I will have to do surgery after that, as well.

The positives are all my rotations are ACGME and I wont be moving around too much. I will also be done with all my cores by interview time and be completly done well before the March 2010 graduation date.

My clinical advisor is real good. I havent had any trouble reaching him and he returns the messages I send him in less than a day. I have other friends that are not able to reach their advisors though, so maybe I just got lucky. I also have friends that got all their rotations already scheduled back to back, so I guess it just varies.

[cavalletti]

Some opinions: http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/158901-please-share-your-honest-opinion.html

[Mustango]

Some opinions and FACTS:

http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/151823-ross-university-expands-clinical-rotations-7.html

http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/159000-new-clinical-rotations.html

[thethom]

and also you won't be as well prepared to take USMLE Step 2 CK.


I don't think it has much influence on Step 2. I took my CK before I had done Surgery OR Peds cores...and viola, they were my 2 highest scoring sections... Maybe its best to take step 2 before doing any rotations? LOL

[Salsabil]

nothing has changed except a few minor rotation spots being added. i was rotating as late as march 2008. i'm done now, i've made it through to the other side.

my ross opinion is that things are going to get alot worse before they get better.
also note that the quality of the rotation sites we do have are pretty crapy. strong rotations are few and far between. rossies are getting ripped off for their clinical years. for what you pay into them you get relatively nothing out of it.

i'm comparing my experience with some of my fellow AMG PGY-1's. I know alot of peole would say forget it and forget your past Ross experience. Which I have done (the bad memories). but i just wanted to put that information back out there for the juniors.

nothing feels better than knowing you are now a member of a professional institution which RESPECTS and takes CARE OF their own.

This institution I speak of is NOT at all Ross. I have never felt more degraded as a human being than my past 2 years at Ross in the MS-III and MS -IV clinicals.
I thought the island was pretty crappy when I left, but in retrospect, and relative to the disasters that awaited in clinicals, the island was a walk in the park.

btw. of the FMG's who matched in my program...they came from SGU, Ross, SABA, and AUC. You don't owe Ross anything special. They should be happy that you put up with them for the past 4 years and paid them while tolerating all their **.

It should tell you alot that I am a Ross product, in residency and STILL bitter about all the ** they put me through. think about it.

[DrunkenDancer]

It all depends on how lucky you are. If you get the right clinical advisor then you get what you want and when you want it. However, if you don't get the right clinical advisor or strike it off right with your clinical advisor then you have to call literally everday for a month or more to get things worked out.

Fortunately, there are downtimes in Ross electives and cores to do this. I felt weird rotating at a hospital with SABA and SGU students who thought it was weird how I had to call and get cores and electives, when they said that they just got all their core rotations scheduled way in advance and don't have to waste time and worry in this way.

I think I have literally wasted hundreds of hours callling and trying to figure out how and where to get core rotations, only to be put on hold and never being able to get through to anybody at Ross. I think that people who schedule electives at hospital just delete emails from Ross students. I am glad I never have to look at that stupid hospital list again and try to figure out where I can scrounge a surgery elective or family practice rotation. I looked at it some many times that I probably have it memorized and can name at least 15 hospitals in NY that take Ross students for Pediatrics!

My family would ask me what I am doing next and I talk about trying to setup a "Family Practice" location somewhere and I feel more like someone who spends weeks negotiating into electives and rotations than a student. It is embarassing when you tell people you don't know what city you will be in in three months time or don't know when you will graduate or talk about problems getting through to your clinical advisors for *weeks* or *months*.

The extension to the advisors was disabled by Ross as too many students tried to call directly by speed-dial so they made it so you HAVE to go through the operator. I must have called 30 times one week, once every hour to talk to anybody, heck even the operator hung-up a couple times. Please put me through to XXX. And don't consider leaving a voice-mail as none of my 45+ voice mails was ever returned by anyone at Ross.

Sad Truth Is: Clinical Advisors Stone-Wall because not everybody will get green book rotations and therefore not everyone will be able to practice everywhere they want to. Clinical advisor know it, heck they got me on the phone into accepting a rotation that wasn't greenbook by offering me two at the same time and didn't mention the non-green book status.

Or telling PDs on interviews how Ross schedules cores in fourth year and you don't have a grade in medicine or surgery to show to people. Worse yet, PDs who know that Ross has this problem and roll their eyes.

I hate Ross students who took off time during electives or cores to interview for interviews, I was told that I was not allowed to do this and LOST interviews because Ross wants us working even though we do 90 weeks clinicals more than other medical school. Now we are required to take off a WHOLE MONTH OR MORE for step score and interviews. Hello?

Every US student get a ton of time off for interviews, or at least a minimum amount of time off, we get none. This screws us during interview season, but of course helps the school as we are conscripted labor in hospitals and makes Ross students look good so more get to do electives in such hospitals.

One student I know had to cancel dozens of interviews over a three month period because she had electives during this time, i.e. during interview season and was unable to match! I don't think she will get a commendation letter from Ross commending her for "taking one for the team" while showing up empty handed for a residency this year.

Sometimes the hospitals themselves are worse with scheduling cores than Ross is, such as one particular hospital in Brooklyn where the medical student elective coordinator runs around trying to catch students using cell phones and you literally have to schedule four or five appointments to talk to him to get an elective which magically disappears anyway, and who treats you very poorly and with little respect each time you met with him.

Nevermind having to wait months and call repeatedly to get evaluations from hospitals where we did weird little electives.

[Yazzie]

nothing has changed except a few minor rotation spots being added. i was rotating as late as march 2008. i'm done now, i've made it through to the other side.

my ross opinion is that things are going to get alot worse before they get better.
also note that the quality of the rotation sites we do have are pretty crapy. strong rotations are few and far between. rossies are getting ripped off for their clinical years. for what you pay into them you get relatively nothing out of it.

i'm comparing my experience with some of my fellow AMG PGY-1's. I know alot of peole would say forget it and forget your past Ross experience. Which I have done (the bad memories). but i just wanted to put that information back out there for the juniors.

nothing feels better than knowing you are now a member of a professional institution which RESPECTS and takes CARE OF their own.

This institution I speak of is NOT at all Ross. I have never felt more degraded as a human being than my past 2 years at Ross in the MS-III and MS -IV clinicals.
I thought the island was pretty crappy when I left, but in retrospect, and relative to the disasters that awaited in clinicals, the island was a walk in the park.

btw. of the FMG's who matched in my program...they came from SGU, Ross, SABA, and AUC. You don't owe Ross anything special. They should be happy that you put up with them for the past 4 years and paid them while tolerating all their **.

It should tell you alot that I am a Ross product, in residency and STILL bitter about all the ** they put me through. think about it.

How do you feel your education stacked up compared to US grads? I have heard that Ross students get compliments concerning their clinical ability when compared to US grads. I had to jump through a lot of hoops but I think it made me a better student in the end.

[jjmalu]

I hate Ross students who took off time during electives or cores to interview for interviews, I was told that I was not allowed to do this and LOST interviews because Ross wants us working even though we do 90 weeks clinicals more than other medical school. Now we are required to take off a WHOLE MONTH OR MORE for step score and interviews. Hello?



A little off topic, but if interview season is from October to January, what month is a good time to take off for them?

[sairam84]

Thank you everyone for your help! Thanks Drunken Dancer and Salsabil for giving us the true story! I appreciate it a lot, actually I am on waitlist at 2 US schools...so crossing my fingers! ROSS is plan B....incase I have to go to ROSS I am trying to set up rotations on my own outside ROSS affiliation through my own contacts. So hope that works but it is good to know the latest situation.
I think all the incoming students should call or email the Dean citing this problem...and pressurize the admin to get somes answers. I already wrote a letter ready for mail...any advice who to send it to?

[syntrik]

If you do end up at Ross (which I wouldn't settle for if I was waitlisted at two US schools - wait a year and improve your app if you don't get in) you won't want to set up your own rotations. Doing more than 12 weeks like that can seriously hurt your licensure in some states.

[sairam84]

If you do end up at Ross (which I wouldn't settle for if I was waitlisted at two US schools - wait a year and improve your app if you don't get in) you won't want to set up your own rotations. Doing more than 12 weeks like that can seriously hurt your licensure in some states.
Syntrik....pardon my ignorance about this issue...but you could please explain....or refer me to some site where I can do my research and get some more information....thank you very much for this information....had i not known I would have been in deep trouble. Thanks again

[Salsabil]

Yazzie,

I can't tell you just yet how my education compares to US grads. I'll need a couple of months before I can tell you that. but just from talking about general rotation experiences, US grads did little to no scut, had alot of lecture hours and teaching rounds and were treated like demi-gods for the most part. I laugh a little inside whenever I hear them complaining about all the little things.

Its probably true that Rossies will be better at handling scut work and the odd job things you'll have to do as an intern because we had no protection from being scutted out when compared to US grads. Rossies have very little teaching hours in rotations when compared to US grads. If you look at a US grad's rotation schedule during one of their core rotations...literally 50-60% of their time is in either LECTURE or teaching rounds/conferences. Whereas Rossies woudln't have had a LECTURE since the island/miami. Although US grads may have the advantage of all being on one campus and being able to have classroom lecture, that's still not your problem and doesn't change the fact that they get a better preparation for the USMLE's than we do.

And regarding Rossies that get compliments for their clinical ability. That only matters if you can compare your match spots with those of US grads on the whole (which we will never be able to do). So what if you can handle the heat on the wards and need not be spoon fed - IF you're still at a crappy hospital were none of your fellow residents can speak english?!... Big deal if you have some 'clinical ability' relative to a typical intern. That apparent 'ability' that rossies may or may not get complimented on is an advantage that lasts at best about 3 months before even the most inept/ most spoon fed AMG will catch up to you.

[DrunkenDancer]

Thank you everyone for your help! Thanks Drunken Dancer and Salsabil for giving us the true story! I appreciate it a lot, actually I am on waitlist at 2 US schools...so crossing my fingers! ROSS is plan B....incase I have to go to ROSS I am trying to set up rotations on my own outside ROSS affiliation through my own contacts. So hope that works but it is good to know the latest situation.
I think all the incoming students should call or email the Dean citing this problem...and pressurize the admin to get somes answers. I already wrote a letter ready for mail...any advice who to send it to?

Well, that above is correct you will have major licensing issues if over 12 weeks of electives are done outside of a "Ross Affiliate", I would never dream to do a core outside of a Ross Affiliate.

Why not just call Ross affiliate hospitals yourself you ask? Well, that is a big NO NO, and is grounds for dismissal from Ross. Only your advisor can get you core rotations (student try to get around this, I didn't try and didn't see anybody suceed except for one student for a measley ob rotation).

Obviously, if Ross students could do this then I could call affiliates directly. I had to call my advisor and ask about core rotations. . . almost "remind" them about hospitals I would be willing to do it at. You can setup electives at most hospitals on your own, electives are a dime a dozen, . . . unless you want a specific elective then you fight other students for it. . . even with electives there are some institutions that are Ross affiliated that only your advisor can get you electives at.

So, if you do go to Ross your only ticket to say a peds or ob/gyn or medicine rotation OR ANY CORE ROTATION in your home state or hospital of choice for example is to call your advisor for months . . . they will put you on a "waiting-list", but in reality if you don't keep calling like 4-7 times per week they forget about you. The Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

If you refuse that non-green book ob/gyn rotation in new jersey then you will have to wait out time to get another one, i.e. not graduate on time I think or some other consequence. Basically I decided not to play chicken with a dumptruck and took what I was "assigned."

[cavalletti]

I appreciate it a lot, actually I am on waitlist at 2 US schools...so crossing my fingers! ROSS is plan B....incase I have to go to ROSS I am trying to set up rotations on my own outside ROSS affiliation through my own contacts. So hope that works but it is good to know the latest situation.
I think all the incoming students should call or email the Dean citing this problem...and pressurize the admin to get somes answers. I already wrote a letter ready for mail...any advice who to send it to?

If your stats are strong enough to be waitlisted in the US than you could apply to SGU. SGU has more clinical spots than they can fill as a result of an exclusive 100 million dollar contract with NY hospitals.

Have you applied?

All the best.

[sairam84]

The problem is I applied 3 weeks ago to SGU, and the class is already full, they said I can start in January 09....and thats not acceptable to me because I have played the waiting game for US schools and I am tired of it....So I wanna get started as soon as possible.....Regarding doing cores outside the affiliation I know 2 family friends who successfully completed their cores and electives by having Ross sign a contract. DrunkenDevil I will let you know once I find out more about it....and post it here...i think it is important for all of us to clarify this situation. I will call the admissions counselor and tell her to find out for me.

[DrunkenDancer]

The problem is I applied 3 weeks ago to SGU, and the class is already full, they said I can start in January 09....and thats not acceptable to me because I have played the waiting game for US schools and I am tired of it....So I wanna get started as soon as possible.....Regarding doing cores outside the affiliation I know 2 family friends who successfully completed their cores and electives by having Ross sign a contract. DrunkenDevil I will let you know once I find out more about it....and post it here...i think it is important for all of us to clarify this situation. I will call the admissions counselor and tell her to find out for me.

I don't know how any student would have enough leverage to get Ross to sign a contract! Contract for getting all cores done in third year or in a specific city? After two years on the rock the school basically owns you and they don't show much difference to student's "preference" for rotations, if anything high step score help then you would lucky enough to do maybe everything at Kern, . . . I just don't see the school signing a contract which puts them at legal jeopardy but gets the school nothing in return. What happens if Ross doesn't fullfill their part of the contract? A fine? free tuition? Doubtful.

Ross has serious rules about students and having students go to the rotations they are assigned as there is limited number of spots in certain cities and hospitals. I.e. if they assign you to do surgery at a certain hospital that begins with say W and has 60 students taking surgery and isn't a place where you would go if you want surgery then you have to go there regardless or you may have to wait something like three months before they schedule you for another core, i.e. you have to burn up electives in something and may be delayed graduating.

To think that some students have a sneaky backdoor to getting the rotations they want is silly. HOWEVER, I do know a student, i.e. a single student, who was very unhappy about getting cores and with his schedule. He physically went down to Edison NJ and would not leave and demanded that he get ALL his cores scheduled, and guess what? They did it for him! Problem is now they moved the home office somewhere else so you have to drive out to some other city in NJ, maybe they took off the building number to make students go away. But this is the only thing I have seen work.

I don't think anyone has enough bargaining power to get a "contract" with Ross concerning rotations/electives, especially someone who didn't make it to a US school. What would you do if you didn't get the "contract" pout for a whole week about it?

And I'm not DrunkenDevil,

I'm DrunkenDancer,

and now that is Dr. DrunkenDancer to you!:cool:

[sairam84]

Sorry DrunkenDancer.....did not intend to call you DrunkenDevil. I am gonna meet that family friend in a few weeks, will find out and PM you as to what route he took.
So basically what you and others are saying is that "take what ross gives you" or else we're doomed!

[DrunkenDancer]

Sorry DrunkenDancer.....did not intend to call you DrunkenDevil. I am gonna meet that family friend in a few weeks, will find out and PM you as to what route he took.
So basically what you and others are saying is that "take what ross gives you" or else we're doomed!

I was just jokin with the DrunkenDevil thing, that sounds pretty good too. Here is the situation as I see it:

Say there are 300 Ross third years who want to get ob/gyn before step 2 CK. Sooo, they here that Hospital Anytown may have spots or did have spots or just plain has Ross Students. So 300 Ross students call Hospital Anytown asking for the rotation. The medical student elective coordinator can't handle the calls as there is only 5 spots (and Ross also has say 25 very angry fourth year students who need those spots and wants them to get them.) Solution? The school says STOP calling Hospital Anytown and WE THE SCHOOL will talk to them. Therefore the Hospital Anytown is happy to deal with Ross, as Ross students can't call the coordinator on their own and they just need to deal with 2-3 clinical advisors who run the show. Heck if I was at Hospital Anytown I would ASK Ross to forbade students to call.

Sooo, there you have it. Everybody wants to get cores out of the way in third year with no hassle but can't. If you do the math some third years will be taking cores as fourth years and be dealing with Ross advisors who tire everybody out.

Why? Why would Ross advisors do this? Because students (like me and many others) eventually take a non-ACGME ob/gyn or peds rotation or surgery, i.e. non-green book rotation which will LIMIT where we can practice. I have been there, the option is do core X at a D.O. hospital or a non-green book hospital which many states won't accept, OR delay graduation for three months which may delay your graduation . . .

I have been at D.O. Ross rotations with 12 other or 20 other students and we are all looking at each other asking why we took this rotation. Because it pays big time to wear students down.

What do you think would happen if Ross asked everybody down on the island what type of rotations they wanted, EVERY SINGLE ONE WOULD SAY THEY WOULD WANT GREEN BOOK ROTATIONS! However, they can't ask this question as they can't fill the request.

Simple, what they do is schedule you only maybe 2 core rotations and give you the choice if you want to do a blue-book i.e. DO surgery core OR wait three months or more and do electives.

Ross could schedule ALL core during 5th semester, but they don't because some students would get stuck with blue book rotations and would read up and get smart months beforehand. That is why it gets sprung on you and they HAVE to schedule them only 5 months at most as some students really complain about it.

Now, say you refuse a non-green book core. Do you get rewarded and get a green book core rotation somewhere else. No way. Time is a pressure, and students feel pressured to graduate and can't afford to wait to get everything green book.

There MAY be ways around this. But hey, I don't know what sort of big-shot you have to be to get a contract with Ross, unless you have a good gpa/usmle step 1 and are resident of Michigan then you get a deal there except for Pediatrics. Heck I got good board scores and I didn't get a "deal" or contract like your friends got.

Frankly I would be pretty upset and so would many students who wasted a ton of time on the phone during rotations when we could have been eating lunch or studying . . . that somebody could get a fancy contract.

I don't care to have a PM about whatever deals honestly as I'm through that now and it doesn't affect me anymore. I have my diploma, I am not emotionally invested in your quest to get what you think is a fair deal. I sort of hope they don't give out contracts and base giving choice rotations on gpa and board scores. I am suspicious they don't do this as it sounds fishy.

Hope this helps anyone reading this to basically understand how the, ahem, adult world works i.e. there is a *reason* why advisors stone-wall and don't answer emails, duh. This isn't unique to Ross, medical students are on the lowest rung of the ladder everywhere. A medical student is the simplest tool available, a wedge. Show me a medical student who doesn't triple my work by asking silly questions and not knowing any clinical skills . Please don't PM me.

[cavalletti]

But hey, I don't know what sort of big-shot you have to be to get a contract with Ross,
Frankly I would be pretty upset and so would many students who wasted a ton of time on the phone during rotations when we could have been eating lunch or studying . . . that somebody could get a fancy contract.


Could it be that the contract that is being discussed is between Ross and the Hospital. Perhaps the student, through contacts, found a hospital that was willing to negotiate an affiliation with Ross. Maybe even allowing a few students to do cores there. This might explain the "contract".

All the best to the OP. Still think that starting 4 months later at SGU would save you alot of head ache.

[sairam84]

I did not want to get people all worked up about this....
Cavalletti...the respones here about rotations is making me look at AUC or as you said wait 4 months to attend SGU

[Sideswipe]

I was just jokin with the DrunkenDevil thing, that sounds pretty good too. Here is the situation as I see it:

Say there are 300 Ross third years who want to get ob/gyn before step 2 CK. Sooo, they here that Hospital Anytown may have spots or did have spots or just plain has Ross Students. So 300 Ross students call Hospital Anytown asking for the rotation. The medical student elective coordinator can't handle the calls as there is only 5 spots (and Ross also has say 25 very angry fourth year students who need those spots and wants them to get them.) Solution? The school says STOP calling Hospital Anytown and WE THE SCHOOL will talk to them. Therefore the Hospital Anytown is happy to deal with Ross, as Ross students can't call the coordinator on their own and they just need to deal with 2-3 clinical advisors who run the show. Heck if I was at Hospital Anytown I would ASK Ross to forbade students to call.

Sooo, there you have it. Everybody wants to get cores out of the way in third year with no hassle but can't. If you do the math some third years will be taking cores as fourth years and be dealing with Ross advisors who tire everybody out.

Why? Why would Ross advisors do this? Because students (like me and many others) eventually take a non-ACGME ob/gyn or peds rotation or surgery, i.e. non-green book rotation which will LIMIT where we can practice. I have been there, the option is do core X at a D.O. hospital or a non-green book hospital which many states won't accept, OR delay graduation for three months which may delay your graduation . . .

I have been at D.O. Ross rotations with 12 other or 20 other students and we are all looking at each other asking why we took this rotation. Because it pays big time to wear students down.

What do you think would happen if Ross asked everybody down on the island what type of rotations they wanted, EVERY SINGLE ONE WOULD SAY THEY WOULD WANT GREEN BOOK ROTATIONS! However, they can't ask this question as they can't fill the request.

Simple, what they do is schedule you only maybe 2 core rotations and give you the choice if you want to do a blue-book i.e. DO surgery core OR wait three months or more and do electives.

Ross could schedule ALL core during 5th semester, but they don't because some students would get stuck with blue book rotations and would read up and get smart months beforehand. That is why it gets sprung on you and they HAVE to schedule them only 5 months at most as some students really complain about it.

Now, say you refuse a non-green book core. Do you get rewarded and get a green book core rotation somewhere else. No way. Time is a pressure, and students feel pressured to graduate and can't afford to wait to get everything green book.

There MAY be ways around this. But hey, I don't know what sort of big-shot you have to be to get a contract with Ross, unless you have a good gpa/usmle step 1 and are resident of Michigan then you get a deal there except for Pediatrics. Heck I got good board scores and I didn't get a "deal" or contract like your friends got.

Frankly I would be pretty upset and so would many students who wasted a ton of time on the phone during rotations when we could have been eating lunch or studying . . . that somebody could get a fancy contract.

I don't care to have a PM about whatever deals honestly as I'm through that now and it doesn't affect me anymore. I have my diploma, I am not emotionally invested in your quest to get what you think is a fair deal. I sort of hope they don't give out contracts and base giving choice rotations on gpa and board scores. I am suspicious they don't do this as it sounds fishy.

Hope this helps anyone reading this to basically understand how the, ahem, adult world works i.e. there is a *reason* why advisors stone-wall and don't answer emails, duh. This isn't unique to Ross, medical students are on the lowest rung of the ladder everywhere. A medical student is the simplest tool available, a wedge. Show me a medical student who doesn't triple my work by asking silly questions and not knowing any clinical skills . Please don't PM me.

Prospectives should take note of the above comments!

When you meet with an Admissions Representative ASK them if Ross will allow them to graduate ON TIME with ALL GREENBOOK cores. Ask them if Ross can GUARANTEE this. Ask them if you were to join right now, that you could get IN WRITING, a legally binding GUARANTEE that you will be able to graduate on time with all Greenbook rotations.

THAT, my friends, is the only way to make sure Ross doesn't screw you over in the first place. I think someone should create a New Thread with advice for prospectives so that they have a better understanding of the situation.

[Mustango]

Prospectives should take note of the above comments!

When you meet with an Admissions Representative ASK them if Ross will allow them to graduate ON TIME with ALL GREENBOOK cores. Ask them if Ross can GUARANTEE this. Ask them if you were to join right now, that you could get IN WRITING, a legally binding GUARANTEE that you will be able to graduate on time with all Greenbook rotations.

THAT, my friends, is the only way to make sure Ross doesn't screw you over in the first place. I think someone should create a New Thread with advice for prospectives so that they have a better understanding of the situation.

there are about 100 threads already made by SGU students, here on the Ross forum, warning prospects about the evils of ross. Just leave it to the SGU students. :)

[jjmalu]

Prospectives should take note of the above comments!

When you meet with an Admissions Representative ASK them if Ross will allow them to graduate ON TIME with ALL GREENBOOK cores. Ask them if Ross can GUARANTEE this. Ask them if you were to join right now, that you could get IN WRITING, a legally binding GUARANTEE that you will be able to graduate on time with all Greenbook rotations.

THAT, my friends, is the only way to make sure Ross doesn't screw you over in the first place. I think someone should create a New Thread with advice for prospectives so that they have a better understanding of the situation.



You will graduate on time, but there is a good chance you wont have all your cores in 3rd yr.

[DrunkenDancer]

Prospectives should take note of the above comments!

When you meet with an Admissions Representative ASK them if Ross will allow them to graduate ON TIME with ALL GREENBOOK cores. Ask them if Ross can GUARANTEE this. Ask them if you were to join right now, that you could get IN WRITING, a legally binding GUARANTEE that you will be able to graduate on time with all Greenbook rotations.

THAT, my friends, is the only way to make sure Ross doesn't screw you over in the first place. I think someone should create a New Thread with advice for prospectives so that they have a better understanding of the situation.

Legally binding contracts don't grow on trees. You would basically be asking Ross to pay hundreds of dollars to get a lawyer to workup a contract, if not thousands of dollars. Problem is, what if you don't get your greenbook rotations, what happens? I doubt Ross would agree to refund ALL of tuition, even if they did you wasted two years . . . there are more people who want to go to Ross who can't, so Ross doesn't need to pander to students like this. I.e. why take a student who wants a "contract" over a student who is just happy to go to Ross?

Contracts are for baseball superstars, not for premeds who couldn't get into a US school but decide to go to Ross, unless the quality of applicants has drastically increased somehow. I can see the administrators laughing about a 3.2 student with a 27 MCAT who threatens to take their business elsewhere, so what? Ross has a huge pipeline of applicants, which is part of the problem.

Now, say you do have the stats required for SGU or SABA, then you could go there and basically the "word is out" that they have everything scheduled ahead of time so less headache. But not everbody can go to AUC, SABA or AUC so some folks have to suck it up and go to Ross and just deal with it.

I don't think that any applicant would have the nerve to ask for a "contract" when interviewing. The recruiter wouldn't be foolish enough to put the school in legal jeopardy for nothing, . . . they get your tuition without a contract just fine.

[cavalletti]

You will graduate on time, but there is a good chance you wont have all your cores in 3rd yr.

Or have completed your OB-G core in time to apply for OB-G residency like a current Ross student. He did the interview circuit without having done his core. Don't know if he matched. He couldn't have been too competitive.

[Aggiemd2b]

To the original poster. Be careful about waiting to better your application to a US school. I was waitlisted at the same school (for stupid reasons it was the only one I applied to and please don't everyone get on my case I now know how much I screwed up!) two years in a row. I kept trying to better my application and then WAM before I realized it my MCAT was 5 years old and no longer valid or good enough. Anyway, here I am supposed to start Ross!

[jjmalu]

Or have completed your OB-G core in time to apply for OB-G residency like a current Ross student. He did the interview circuit without having done his core. Don't know if he matched. He couldn't have been too competitive.

I cant speak for the poster you are talking about, but I start rotations next week, and I personally will have all ACGME cores completed by interview time.

[Aggiemd2b]

cavalletti never has a nice word about Ross even though they are not a Ross student and it has been posted that they have not been accepted anywhere so take that persons comments lightly.

[Fox225]

Thank you everyone for your help! Thanks Drunken Dancer and Salsabil for giving us the true story! I appreciate it a lot, actually I am on waitlist at 2 US schools...so crossing my fingers! ROSS is plan B....incase I have to go to ROSS I am trying to set up rotations on my own outside ROSS affiliation through my own contacts. So hope that works but it is good to know the latest situation.
I think all the incoming students should call or email the Dean citing this problem...and pressurize the admin to get somes answers. I already wrote a letter ready for mail...any advice who to send it to?
I am currently attending Ross, on the Island. I too was wait listed and feel certain that if I had waited another year I would have gotten into a US school. My advice to you is DO NOT COME TO ROSS. The pace down here is ridicules, you do 4 months worth of work in 3 months. You will be treated horribly by the faculty, especially during the first 2 semesters. The attitude towards the students is: you couldn’t get in any where else so we can treat you however you like. This attitude comes right from the Dean. My brother went to a US school and can not comprehend our schedule. Med school is hard enough, you shouldn’t be treated like this. Take a year off, enjoy it and get in to a US school.

By the way I am a B student and have not repeated any semesters.

[brob311]

I am currently attending Ross, on the Island. I too was wait listed and feel certain that if I had waited another year I would have gotten into a US school. My advice to you is DO NOT COME TO ROSS. The pace down here is ridicules, you do 4 months worth of work in 3 months. You will be treated horribly by the faculty, especially during the first 2 semesters. The attitude towards the students is: you couldn’t get in any where else so we can treat you however you like. This attitude comes right from the Dean. My brother went to a US school and can not comprehend our schedule. Med school is hard enough, you shouldn’t be treated like this. Take a year off, enjoy it and get in to a US school.

By the way I am a B student and have not repeated any semesters.


You thought the island was bad...just wait my good sir/madam

[leo72]

I cant speak for the poster you are talking about, but I start rotations next week, and I personally will have all ACGME cores completed by interview time.


I'm not going to bad mouth Ross, but you've never heard of the "Wyckhoff Shuffle". Its a dance move where you show up on the first day , and then run around shaking your hands at the sky when you find out you got bumped. Even though the paperwork says you have a rotation, a large % of people get bumped at least once during their rotations.

I do wish you the best. Stay on top of things and you'll be fine.

[jjmalu]

I'm not going to bad mouth Ross, but you've never heard of the "Wyckhoff Shuffle". Its a dance move where you show up on the first day , and then run around shaking your hands at the sky when you find out you got bumped. Even though the paperwork says you have a rotation, a large % of people get bumped at least once during their rotations.

I do wish you the best. Stay on top of things and you'll be fine.

Thanks for the well wishes.

Yea, I think this site has given me a lot of valuable info and I am very much on top of things. I only have one wycoff rotation, but it is ob/gyn. Do people still get bumped? My adviser said it has been close to 5 months since it has happened. Is that true?

[sairam84]

Hello everyone.....all you have been great with your responses....I know that graduating from a US school would be the best....but its a long 1 YEAR....i want to get started towards my goal....also rotations seems to be a big problem with ROSS, since I applied late to SGU they want me to start in august! So basically its between Ross and AUC. I have to decide by Monday because both schools require the deposit then! Hopefully I can decided between the two and start my journey towards a MD.
Aggiemd2b.....don't loose heart, getting into a US school is very subjective I know 12 kids with lower stats that mine who got in! So we'll work hard and make sure we will succeed

[jabee_usm]

ummm, ok! Encouragement is the key!