Where Is The School Going?

[saban]

where the school is heading?
down the drain.

[silentvoice]

Stop and read this before you give you money away!!!

when I first got to Saba (having the experience of attending another Caribbean medical school) - seeing the facilities and meeting my profs, I was pleasantly surprised. I was able to recognize the professional approach taken by the administration and everything looked good.
but know, after a couple of months in Saba and specially considering the chain of events that have taken place in the past few days, I find myself wondering if I made the right decision, coming to this school.
All the great professors I met during the first few days and heard about from the upper semesters; the knowledgeable and approachable professors I was looking forward to learn from, have either RESIGNED, STEPPED DOWN, or just sitting in their office doing pretty much nothing while these new professors (who happen to be friends of the Dean and his Sidekick: the much in need of anger management classes Assistant Dean) are ATTEMPTING to teach (more accurately flipping through slides) while we take a nap!!!!
Something needs to happen and needs to happen quickly because the $#!T has hit the fan and we are not gonna sit here and let this happen to anyone else.......
My advice is hold back till this is all resolved and survey your options again!!!
p.s AUC American university of the Caribbean is owned by the same people and it really is not a smart alternative to Saba University School of Medicine

[barq]

i really hope not

[icesage]

I would like to say there is gonna be a happy ending just like in Disney movies...but this flick has just turned into a horror flick. Where is the school heading? Most definitely not in the right direction. If the school is not improving is it getting worse? Unfortunately so!!! The admin does not want to communicate anything. This is a nightmare. That is why all this anger is being vented on ValueMD. I hope admin realizes that it better communicate to the students otherwise a lot of the students will leave or transfer (which a lot of them are already contemplating). No students means no jobs for admin., so one would think admin. would do something atleast for their own self preservation. I do not want to leave this school but they better start communicating soon otherwise it is just gonna get worse. The first semesters are really suffering and I feel bad for them. For prospective students, I would advise looking into deferring your admission until issues in this school are fixed. Or I would also suggest looking at other options. I cannot believe I would ever say this about my own school but I do not want others to get come here and get caught up in this mess.

[JLea]

AUC is not owned by Equinox Capital.

[Tellingitlikeitis]

All i can say is finally. I have posting here for a long time and I have always been made to feel like a crazy person. There is nothing here in this forum that is new, that hasnt been going on since I came to Saba. All I can say is watch yourself, be very careful about who you say what to. Maybe you think that the dean is very sympathetic to your woes, or even the "mental" ( haha) health "professionals. These people are not bound under any sort of confidentiality laws like in the states, and what you say can and will get back to people in admin. And while im on the topic remeber, saba is not the states, you are not protected under US criminal or educational laws. So bascially the school can and will do whatever it wants while using the Saba police to enforce.
I am gald that somebody found that info about the dean. Drug problems? Not surprising. My opnion is that basically any doctor from the states who comes down to Saba to teach for more than 1 semster has had some legal problems and or cant practice anymore. Do you really think they came to saba and STAYED because the island is so cool? Or that they gave up a 150000 a yr salary so they could earn 40000 tax free? Or that they wanted to give back? Yea right.
Good luck first semsters, at least your eyes seem to open to the realities of the island

[Sabanstudent]

Hello all,
I am a current student at Saba that used ValueMD religiously prior to applying to Saba. When I first made the decision to come here, I came believing that this school would provide me the education that would be the equivalent of any other Canadian or US medical school. The truth of the matter is that when I first got here, that was the case. But recent events show that now, not only is the University not what it claims to be on the website, but it is not going to allow me to go into my clinicals and USMLE's with the knowledge I need to provide care to patients.

Foremostly, for those who have been accepted for the next few semesters and have the ability to attend a medical school elsewhere, please note the following:
On the website there are claims of high professor to student ratios- such a thing does not exist, getting an appointment to see your own advisor or professor has become a task in itself.
The website claims that they have 1 cadaver for every 6 students- this may have been true- a year ago. The truth is that the anatomy lab was built for the class sizes Saba had years ago, and that now, the first semester class is 90 students- a number much higher than what the website claims or what Gardner even told them. Students must go in on their own time in the evenings just to see the structures that were demonstrated in lab. Direction in lab is lacking, students are given a scalpel and brig in a text and attempt to isolate what is important. In a lab of 90 students, 1 professor does 1 or 2 prosections and assumes that you understand the material knowing fully that only 6 or 7 people can crowd around his 1 prosection.
Also, the class size for the coming September 2008 class is upwards of 120- Saba does not have that many spots. If the classes they were graduation before were 60 and they have lost spots (research this online) how is it that they have accepted 120 students for September?
Recent exams in both third and first semester have been designed to bring down the class average. In first semester, the results of all of the histology exams have had failure averages.
The response of the administration to students' concern with the highest failure rate and drop rate in Saba has been that due to the pulling out of many US loans they are now forced to accept whoever wishes to attend the school.
As of now, Gardner does not answer any calls discussing the situation at the school, as they are trying themselves to untangle the mess that has become Saba.
As an upper semester, I have gotten this far with the help of the professors. Professors that are here to teach you and make you a good doctor. These professors have now left, because they were told that they cannot be pushing through so many students to the next semester.

At this point, a medical degree from Saba University is not going to receive the respect and recognition that it would have in the past. Personally I am waiting on acceptance from Ross, and wish to get out of a system that doesn't respect the students, does not want to see them through the basic sciences and is there solely for the purpose of making money.
I hope that this is helpful to students considering Saba as an option, and I hope that they do not close the doors on better opportunities assuming that Saba is where they wish to attend.

Goodluck to all.

[barq]

So for those of us who need to look into alternatives, are there any schools out there thats as affordable as Saba yet still give a worthwhile education? I know I can get into Ross, SGU & AUC, [my gpa & mcat should have been sufficent for american schools (or so I had thought)] but it just isn't as feasible $$$ wise....

[mario345]

So for those of us who need to look into alternatives, are there any schools out there thats as affordable as Saba yet still give a worthwhile education? I know I can get into Ross, SGU & AUC, [my gpa & mcat should have been sufficent for american schools (or so I had thought)] but it just isn't as feasible $$$ wise....

if your GPA and MCAT is sufficient, you should go to an american school.
education is one place where you should not be cheap.

[maserati]

if your GPA and MCAT is sufficient, you should go to an american school.
education is one place where you should not be cheap.



that only applies to people who can afford it.
i got accepted to nice irish & uk school. $75k a year.

can't go.

[maserati]

Hello all,
I am a current student at Saba that used ValueMD religiously prior to applying to Saba. When I first made the decision to come here, I came believing that this school would provide me the education that would be the equivalent of any other Canadian or US medical school. The truth of the matter is that when I first got here, that was the case. But recent events show that now, not only is the University not what it claims to be on the website, but it is not going to allow me to go into my clinicals and USMLE's with the knowledge I need to provide care to patients.

Foremostly, for those who have been accepted for the next few semesters and have the ability to attend a medical school elsewhere, please note the following:
On the website there are claims of high professor to student ratios- such a thing does not exist, getting an appointment to see your own advisor or professor has become a task in itself.
The website claims that they have 1 cadaver for every 6 students- this may have been true- a year ago. The truth is that the anatomy lab was built for the class sizes Saba had years ago, and that now, the first semester class is 90 students- a number much higher than what the website claims or what Gardner even told them. Students must go in on their own time in the evenings just to see the structures that were demonstrated in lab. Direction in lab is lacking, students are given a scalpel and brig in a text and attempt to isolate what is important. In a lab of 90 students, 1 professor does 1 or 2 prosections and assumes that you understand the material knowing fully that only 6 or 7 people can crowd around his 1 prosection.
Also, the class size for the coming September 2008 class is upwards of 120- Saba does not have that many spots. If the classes they were graduation before were 60 and they have lost spots (research this online) how is it that they have accepted 120 students for September?
Recent exams in both third and first semester have been designed to bring down the class average. In first semester, the results of all of the histology exams have had failure averages.
The response of the administration to students' concern with the highest failure rate and drop rate in Saba has been that due to the pulling out of many US loans they are now forced to accept whoever wishes to attend the school.
As of now, Gardner does not answer any calls discussing the situation at the school, as they are trying themselves to untangle the mess that has become Saba.
As an upper semester, I have gotten this far with the help of the professors. Professors that are here to teach you and make you a good doctor. These professors have now left, because they were told that they cannot be pushing through so many students to the next semester.

At this point, a medical degree from Saba University is not going to receive the respect and recognition that it would have in the past. Personally I am waiting on acceptance from Ross, and wish to get out of a system that doesn't respect the students, does not want to see them through the basic sciences and is there solely for the purpose of making money.
I hope that this is helpful to students considering Saba as an option, and I hope that they do not close the doors on better opportunities assuming that Saba is where they wish to attend.

Goodluck to all.









wow. well said. well said.

[barq]

any answers rather than accusations?

[GQ-Loud]

Jlea needs to stick to his own school affairs. We are sorry that you **** but that doesn't mean u need to attack professors at a personal level. PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE
As for all the people putting up stupid remarks you need to stop and start growing up. SABA is still a great school that is just in a state of change and so there are a few problems that most of us don't agree upon. I know I am an upper semester but I too am worried especially about the future.
So instead of posting ridiculous remarks and finding dirt on people we should be again more professional and figure a way to have our voices heard. Everyone has dirt and I'm sure JLEA I can find alot of dirt on you buddy.
So please guys for those who care about your future, be smart and lets try to figure out what we can do together with administration to fix things.

[mario345]

complying with request.

[wolfvgang22]

Once again, this is an open warning to all users.

The recent occurrences of multiple accounts, flooding (posting the same statements 20 times), and flaming are not okay on this site.
They are violations of the site [/URL][URL="http://www.valuemd.com/disclaimer.php"]Terms of Service (http://www.valuemd.com/disclaimer.php) we all agreed to when we joined this site.
You have seen bans occur already yesterday and today.

Though we certainly understand the reasons why individual users sometimes open multiple accounts (fear of retribution, etc) it is not okay here.

For example, we like to make it more difficult for some schools to make up lots of fake "students" to cheer-lead their institution, or for one or a few disgruntled student to look like a large crowd.
As a result anonymity here is necessarily somewhat limited (as it is throughout the web).

If you suspect a post violates site rules, please click on the red and white triangle placed in the top right corner of each post to report it to site staff.

Thank you for helping to maintain our valuable community.

[icesage]

I think some of the prospective students and lower semesters need to be careful of what some of the upper semesters are saying. There is truth when they say they have been through some of the same professors that you (the lower semesters) are are dealing with and that hard work got them through. But lets be honest nobody in the upper semester dealt with a histo professor telling them they are a-wh0les (thats right I spoke to first semesters to confirm and that is just one of the choice words he said to them - talk about professionalism) and having only literally one handful out of 70 or so students pass the block exam. So, if an upper semester is telling you to deal with it and they studied, that is simply garbage. They are not in your position where your class had 50% more people and also where failures seem to be mandated as part of admin policy, this was not the case for us. The reason I tell you (prospective students and lower semesters)to be careful and have a certain index of suspicion when an upper semester tells you everything is ok, you have to ask what does he/she have to lose? Well take any fifth semester for example, they want to leave the island and finish the step and get into clinicals. They do not want the reputation of the school to go down as that may hurt their prospect of receiving further loans for future studies from various banks and loan companies. Also they do not want the reputation to go down because it may affect our accreditation status with California, NY etc. So, they will say such things as, it is not good to talk about these things on an open forum and that you the first semesters should be able to deal with things just as they had done. They will also tell prospective students that there have always been problems. In the defense of fifth semesters, there have always been and always will be problems. But have there been problems like this where admin refuses to communicate with the students when the students approach them, or an assistant dean of students who is virtually unapproachable or squeezing out an amazing path prof because he would not toe the company line of failing a required number of students. If you are wondering who I am, I am an upper semester and what do I have to lose? Well I feel if we sweep everything under the proverbial carpet, and pretend everything is fine, we will face problems later in the future. Do I think putting everything on ValueMD is a good idea? Absolutely not, we should be able to communicate with the admin but they do not want to talk so I am hoping that admin is looking at this post and other posts seriously. I would feel guilty telling any first semester that everything will be ok and telling every prospective student that SABA is great and its just hit a road bump. Quite frankly, in all good conscience I cannot say that. I have a lot more to lose than any first semester or prospective student and I am also up to my neck in loans but I simply refuse to pretend that everything is ok here because it is not. I want things to be fixed here. Let me tell tell ou things were great until the Dean (who was here during the wonderful days as well) decided to bring in certain professors (some of which could not keep their jobs at another Caribbean university) who are out to change a system that was functioning well and producing skilled physicians. When I came here it was a great school but two to three semesters ago things started getting worse and they finally culminated with the "forced" resignation of one of the best professors this school has had. I hope this is helpful for first semesters and prospective students. I want SABA University School of Medicine to do well and become a great institution because it did give me my second chance and it pains me to talk about it like this.

[JLea]

I edited my previous post at the request of a respected colleague who is still at Saba.

I hold absolutely no animosity towards anyone at Saba University School of Medicine. I truly want to see the school brought back to what it was when I arrived in January 2007.

Why would I have posted what I did when I did? From what I have seen on VMD and from the correspondence I have had with students and faculty who are still in Saba, nothing that the students have tried to get the administration to hear them out and make positive changes has worked. My post was intended to bring the administration to the point of appropriately addressing the issue. Hopefully it worked.

To those students at Saba who were hurt by my post, I sincerely apologize for the pain that it caused. I consider all of you to be friends and colleagues and I want the best for you. I hope that this mess is cleared up quickly and appropriately.

[mario345]

I think some of the prospective students and lower semesters need to be careful of what some of the upper semesters are saying. There is truth when they say they have been through some of the same professors that you (the lower semesters) are are dealing with and that hard work got them through. But lets be honest nobody in the upper semester dealt with a histo professor telling them they are a-wh0les (thats right I spoke to first semesters to confirm and that is just one of the choice words he said to them - talk about professionalism) and having only literally one handful out of 70 or so students pass the block exam. So, if an upper semester is telling you to deal with it and they studied, that is simply garbage. They are not in your position where your class had 50% more people and also where failures seem to be mandated as part of admin policy, this was not the case for us. The reason I tell you (prospective students and lower semesters)to be careful and have a certain index of suspicion when an upper semester tells you everything is ok, you have to ask what does he/she have to lose? Well take any fifth semester for example, they want to leave the island and finish the step and get into clinicals. They do not want the reputation of the school to go down as that may hurt their prospect of receiving further loans for future studies from various banks and loan companies. Also they do not want the reputation to go down because it may affect our accreditation status with California, NY etc. So, they will say such things as, it is not good to talk about these things on an open forum and that you the first semesters should be able to deal with things just as they had done. They will also tell prospective students that there have always been problems. In the defense of fifth semesters, there have always been and always will be problems. But have there been problems like this where admin refuses to communicate with the students when the students approach them, or an assistant dean of students who is virtually unapproachable or squeezing out an amazing path prof because he would not toe the company line of failing a required number of students. If you are wondering who I am, I am an upper semester and what do I have to lose? Well I feel if we sweep everything under the proverbial carpet, and pretend everything is fine, we will face problems later in the future. Do I think putting everything on ValueMD is a good idea? Absolutely not, we should be able to communicate with the admin but they do not want to talk so I am hoping that admin is looking at this post and other posts seriously. I would feel guilty telling any first semester that everything will be ok and telling every prospective student that SABA is great and its just hit a road bump. Quite frankly, in all good conscience I cannot say that. I have a lot more to lose than any first semester or prospective student and I am also up to my neck in loans but I simply refuse to pretend that everything is ok here because it is not. I want things to be fixed here. Let me tell tell ou things were great until the Dean (who was here during the wonderful days as well) decided to bring in certain professors (some of which could not keep their jobs at another Caribbean university) who are out to change a system that was functioning well and producing skilled physicians. When I came here it was a great school but two to three semesters ago things started getting worse and they finally culminated with the "forced" resignation of one of the best professors this school has had. I hope this is helpful for first semesters and prospective students. I want SABA University School of Medicine to do well and become a great institution because it did give me my second chance and it pains me to talk about it like this.
i had to delete my post as the moderator felt that i was being repetitive. anyhow, i am not sure if you read my post before i edited it and then you replied. let me clairify:
I am in no way saying that everything is fine and dandy and im in no way comparing how histo was a 'cram before the weekend type of course' to what it is now. i know if were to take histo now with this professor, i would fail, as i struggled with it and im an average student.
I also stressed the importance of keeping focus in our fight. there is no need to open the pandora's box and bring out things which are of no relevance, to this current situation. Dr. A's and Dr. D's past records are of no significance to this issue. Although people have their reservations about them as professors, we do not need to shift the blame onto someone. The fact that Dr. D was here in Saba's good times, as you said, makes it irrelevant whether he has a history or not. He kept the school welcoming in good times despite his record back then as well.
I am no way encouraging the upper semester students to 'pretend' that everything is fine. Ofcourse, its not fine for anyone. However, I am saying that any decision which shapes your life and cost you tonnes of money should be taken very seriously. Besides, who knows, some first semester reads these posts and decides to follow our advice and transfers and one month later, everything is restored? It can very well go the other way. But the fact is, that we just do not know. We dont know how things will turn out. All we can do is hope, and hope for the best.
When you are faced with adversity, you dont panic or be irrational. You smarten up. You look at your facts. Carefully consider your facts, and then make a decision. I encourage everyone to do that. If you are a first semester, with hopes of passing, STICK around atleast the end of this semester, and see how things unfold. Second and third semesters have two more hurdles to face in 4th and 5th. But all I can say is that you have to grind it out. For 4ths and 5ths its too late to transfer, atleast for basic sciences.
Besides, tranferring is NOT an easy option for us. There is atleast a 5000 dollars tuition difference per semester between AUC, ROSS and saba. That is A lot. I cant afford to pay 50, 000 dollars more than I planned. Can anyone else?
See, this is why you have to sit down and consider your options. And see what is best for you.

As for the rest, I completely agree with your post in regards to the prof situation, etc. Posting on VMD like this is just destroying our school, but we have no choice.

[mario345]

thanks JLea

[mario345]

that only applies to people who can afford it.
i got accepted to nice irish & uk school. $75k a year.

can't go.
that is different.
if you get accepted a school in U.S./Canada, you go there. end of story.
even if it ends up costing you more than 100K.
It will save you tonnes of time [remember, there are always backlogs and time differences between foreign schools and American schools]. There will be less waiting time.
ANd more impirtantly, there will be less stress. You wont be required to do well on the USMLE. You will have better residency options.

it doesnt make sense to pay extra to go to a foreign school. but if you get into a U.S. school and you have to pay more, you better smarten up and go there. carib schools are not an easy system to go thru.

[Boulderunner]

I would like to say there is gonna be a happy ending just like in Disney movies...but this flick has just turned into a horror flick. .



you dont know any better then any one else how this is going to turn out, And your heated comments come off more like rants than anything else. To suggest nefarious motives this early in the game is counterproductive and totally unprofessional.

[icesage]

This is a message received from our fifth semester class representative. I agree with him. I am done posting until after the meeting with the four professors and seeing what admin has to say. We must give admin a chance to see what they have to offer. It is the fair and right thing to do even though I feel we had to force them to communicate. I urge others not write any more remarks that may be considered inflammatory about admin until admin has had a chance to say their piece. I want to see this school succeed!!!

"Dear fellow classmates,

I have been notified as of this afternoon that there has indeed been a
meeting at Gardner, Mass regarding the situation at the school.
Details are still forthcoming, but it is likely that some form of
action will be taken.

Next Wednesday, there will be a school-wide assembly moderated by four
professors, including Dr. B (Clinical Medicine professor). We will register our concerns and complaints and take them to administration. Administration has pledged that they will respond within three days. Given the grave circumstances at hand, it is a safe bet that we can take their word.

With this being said, it is of utmost importance that we stop posting
negative comments about our school on ValueMD. The administration and
the school has already heard our individual voices and collective
voice. In fact, further incitement is utterly counterproductive."

[icesage]

you dont know any better then any one else how this is going to turn out, And your heated comments come off more like rants than anything else. To suggest nefarious motives this early in the game is counterproductive and totally unprofessional.

Boulderunner, I am not going to argue with you in the spirit of wanting peace and seeing what admin has to offer. After that, if things do not work out, I will have plenty to say about you and your own motives. Good luck with exams.

[Experienced]

After putting quite a bit of thought into the recent events at Saba I have decided to write them for the masses to read....

golfman

If I had the facility to craft sentences, I would have written a post HALF as good as this one, golf. Ever heard the saying 'Stepping in yer own pecker' (sorry sisters) ? Why this discussion would escalate from a halfway reasonable one to what is has become today is way beyond my humble comprehension. Gotta go meditate on it. Jack?

E.

-

[gumby]

If I had the facility to craft sentences, I would have written a post HALF as good as this one, golf. Ever heard the saying 'Stepping in yer own pecker' (sorry sisters) ? Why this discussion would escalate from a halfway reasonable one to what is has become today is way beyond my humble comprehension. Gotta go meditate on it. Jack?

E.

-


I always thought it was on not in, but I could be wrong. And wasn't there golf shoes involved?

[Experienced]

I always thought it was on not in, but I could be wrong. And wasn't there golf shoes involved?

OK, Jack is already in the building.

-

[Experienced]

All i can say is finally. I have posting here for a long time and I have always been made to feel like a crazy person. There is nothing here in this forum that is new, that hasnt been going on since I came to Saba. All I can say is watch yourself, be very careful about who you say what to. Maybe you think that the dean is very sympathetic to your woes, or even the "mental" ( haha) health "professionals. These people are not bound under any sort of confidentiality laws like in the states, and what you say can and will get back to people in admin. And while im on the topic remeber, saba is not the states, you are not protected under US criminal or educational laws. So bascially the school can and will do whatever it wants while using the Saba police to enforce.
I am gald that somebody found that info about the dean. Drug problems? Not surprising. My opnion is that basically any doctor from the states who comes down to Saba to teach for more than 1 semster has had some legal problems and or cant practice anymore. Do you really think they came to saba and STAYED because the island is so cool? Or that they gave up a 150000 a yr salary so they could earn 40000 tax free? Or that they wanted to give back? Yea right.
Good luck first semsters, at least your eyes seem to open to the realities of the island

IMO, it is just a coincidence that what is going on on Saba is remotely tied into anything you have ever written here.

-

[JeebusLives]

Sorry, but you are still a crazy person. It is just a coincidence that what is going on on Saba is remotely tied into anything you have ever said.

-

Agreed. Tellingitlikeitis was hating on saba even when it was a great school.

[JeebusLives]

you dont know any better then any one else how this is going to turn out, And your heated comments come off more like rants than anything else. To suggest nefarious motives this early in the game is counterproductive and totally unprofessional.

Is it really that early in the game? All these "rants" are more like a last second hail-mary before the point of no return for a lot of people. Point of no return meaning transferring to another school having lost thousand of dollars. The hail-mary seems to have connected for a touchdown forcing overtime (the meeting with faculty next week). Lets see who wins the coin toss.

[GrignardMonster]

Ok guys, listen.
Things are clearly bad on the island. But if the school is going to lose students because of these problems, ownership and administration will be forced to address the issues. Let's try to be professional. For those of us who graduate and move on from Saba, the reputation of this school is going to follow us around for the rest of our lives. There is no reason to "trash talk" just because things have not yet been straightened out.

Let's not exaggerate the situation with the professors, ok? Dr. B and his wife Dr. A have always been planning to leave the island when the time was right for them. I know Dr. A was planning to look for her own professional opportunity and the time was right.

As far as the Dr who had licensure problems in the US, yes this is true. HOWEVER, doing something wrong in your career does not mean you can't do anything right!
Dr. A is an EXCELLENT professor with a tremendous amount of "real world medicine" experience, and I feel that I GREATLY benefited from his expertise in pulmonary and critical care topics in both clin med and PD. I thought of him as being like an attending physician in the hospital that we will encounter.
I feel that it's unfair to say that just because he did something wrong that he is automatically a terrible professor. I think he's great, and I suggest you learn all you can from him. We are lucky to have him, in my opinion. Had it not been for this license situation, he may not have come to Saba.

As far as the situation with Dr. J, I do feel badly about this, but I feel confident that students will have a chance to make their voices heard when Dr. F comes for the open forum which I understand is to happen next week. I hope that the situation is resolved, not only for pathology students, but also for micro lab students, as I think his wife gave me the best micro teaching I received on the island!

I am now beginning my clinical rotations and let me tell you something. Saba still has some EXCELLENT clinical opportunities. We may have lost a few hospitals, but I am confident that the hospitals we have generally think highly of us as students.

The hospital I am rotating in currently is VERY respected in the community. Locals I've talked to have said it's a top notch, highly respected place. I've seen for myself that it has won national awards for quality of care. There is a long list of Saba students currently rotating here.

It is up to all of us to work hard and preserve the good reputation that Saba students currently have.

Let's face it: we have ALL at some time or another hit some rough patches in our education. Can we try to be professional about this?

[CrazyDiamond]

Is it really that early in the game? All these "rants" are more like a last second hail-mary before the point of no return for a lot of people. Point of no return meaning transferring to another school having lost thousand of dollars. The hail-mary seems to have connected for a touchdown forcing overtime (the meeting with faculty next week). Lets see who wins the coin toss.

The faculty likes to blitz a lot, so I think we gotta run lots of screens and draws in OT (assuming they don't win the coin toss and score straight away). If we do that we can easily move it to the 30 or so and kick the FG for the win ;)

[Tyroneous1]

Can we try to be professional about this?

Nothing screams professionalism like refering to real people by their first initial.

[brob311]

Nothing screams professionalism like refering to real people by their first initial.


Using real names is a violation of TOS on this website. So they are just abiding by the rules

[icesage]

As far as the situation with Dr. J, I do feel badly about this, but I feel confident that students will have a chance to make their voices heard when Dr. F comes for the open forum which I understand is to happen next week. I hope that the situation is resolved, not only for pathology students, but also for micro lab students, as I think his wife gave me the best micro teaching I received on the island!

GrignardMonster, How do you know Dr. F (by this I am assuming the founder of this school) is coming to the open forum? If he is that would be great. How do you know that anyone from Gardiner is coming to the school? Did they tell you? Please let students on this forum know how you came upon this info.

[cattyjane]

GrignardMonster, How do you know Dr. F (by this I am assuming the founder of this school) is coming to the open forum? If he is that would be great. How do you know that anyone from Gardiner is coming to the school? Did they tell you? Please let students on this forum know how you came upon this info.


Yes, please.

Any current students please let us know about any updates on the recent crisis. We forthcoming students are very concerned, not only to our future, but also to your losses and the school's quality.

We still hope that the school can get through all these hurdles and maintain itself to be a highly reputable Caribbean Medical School.

[gumby]

Shhhhhhhh... no talking until Wednesday

[honest2beme]

I am encouraged to inform you that SABA administration is listening to the students concerns. I believe that this thread could have been avoided if the students concerns were addressed in a professional matter rather than favoring the good ol “buddy system” between the dean and a few profs and pushing the students aside. Students have approached the Dean with concerns for some time via letters, meetings, phone calls without any results. Finally, the administration has heard and is now listening and working with students to provide an environment conducive to learning, the primary reason for being at SABA.
Students are hoping that DR. F will also be present to address the our concerns. There will be a school wide assembly to address the pressing issues at hand. Students are willing to work together with the faculty and admin to get SABA back on the right track.
Here are some suggestions that have been recommended by the students at SABA.
1. Removal of the Anti-student-staff from the SUSOM faculty :
a. Dr. L (path prof) and Dr. W (immune prof and the student dean)
i. They have been removed from AUC for the same reasons
ii. Majority of STUDENTS DON’T WANT THEM HERE
b. Both are unapproachable, Dr. W discourages students from reviewing her exams during office hours
c. Both are ill-equipped to communicate the medical info to medical students due to lack of experience
d. Both have stated publicly that the average of their exams should remain about 75 and no higher (pass rate at SABA is >75)
e. Both have stated that 15% of the class SHOULD fail
f. Both have stated that they are our enemy’s in class (as profs) but our advocates as our student-advisers.
g. Looking back, problems at SABA started when both of these profs began to penetrate and divide the faculty
H. Dr. W believes that students have too much say at SABA
2. Placing competent people in charge of department heads, asking Dr. R back to be the director of Anatomy and Dr. J to be the director of pathology
3. NEVER rule out curves for unfair/badly written questions on exams where 1/2 to most of the class fails.
4. ANATOMY NEEDS TO BE TAUGHT BY ANATOMISTS not surgeons/non-anatomists the course is difficult as is with ANATOMIST teaching the material. The ANATOMIST are at the school right now.. DR. R and DR. B
5. Incorporating and encouraging positive attitudes in the first semester class rather then prematurely labeling them as “stupid” “dumb” “smart” The school should encourage students ALL STUDENTS rather then label them.
6. Keeping students up to date on the issues at SABA : ex. rotations clinics added/removed shall be posted
7. Reinstating the old make-up exam rule. It is unjust to deal with a max score of 78 if someone is truly ill with a doctor’s/legitimate proof. This was an unjust idea proposed by Dr. W, later made a rule by the Dr. D.

8. Treating students with respect and dignity teach us what you know, that is why we are here. If your knowledge is communicated clearly and effectively then most of the students will have a fair chance of excelling in the courses just SABA was about a year ago. Be professional with students, you are our example.
9. Reinstate students fees back to the students
a. Lab fees? For Histology? There is NO LAB. Only lecture
b. Parking lot permit fees have always gone to fund the students activities. Not a dime has been seen for a while now by SGA. Where is the money going? Don’t we pay enough as it is to everything? At least give us that money back to us to fund STUDENT activities like it was before.
10. Hire a soft-spoken test center coordinator so that students/professors are not agitated/stressed before an exam. We understand the rules by now:
a. Bring your Id
b. Get there 10 minutes early
c. NO water/drinks/food
d. NO talking/No personal computer items
e. Place your Id on the computer board
f. NO jackets allowed
g. Check your seat assignment before you walk in
h. No questions allowed
11. Post-exam review day must be reinstated while students put all personal things away in class(only to listen and not to take any notes,or have a computer out during the review).
a. Students need to learn from their mistakes on an exam or else it is useless to just miss questions.
b. If most of the class misses a questions, the concept should be clarified and explained again
c. Some exam questions are not written well and need to be discussed amongst the class and the prof
d. This gives the chance for the prof to communicate the reasoning behind why some questions were a certain way
e. Exams can be changed every semester if there are any concerns with repeating questions on a semester to semester basis--
f. This reinstatement would save professors time from having 60+ students individually coming up to the office to see their exams.

These suggestions have been spoken of on campus for past couple months. These suggestions would elevate the tension felt by the students at SUSOM. After next week, the meeting will take place and I hope that our concerns will be acted UPON. Talk is easy, acting within a timely manner will show the truth of the intent of admin. This is a difficult time for students and staff and I am positive that SABA will prevail and go back to its working policies, which have worked in the past. Why fix something if it is not broken? Please refrain from any negative comments. SABA is our school and we are trying to get it back on track where Dr. F once had it.

[icesage]

Excellent work honest2beme. Only one correction I can suggest. Where you write "These suggestions would elevate the tension felt by the students at SUSOM", change elevate to alleviate b/c we do not want to elevate the students' tension anymore :). Great job again. Thank you.

[Tyroneous1]

Using real names is a violation of TOS on this website. So they are just abiding by the rules

Invoking "TOS rules" from memory is also highly professional.

[med etudiant]

Looks like we have another pi$$ing match. And thats just unprofessional.

[Gigi25]

:) :) :) :) :)

[Gigi25]

Maybe I shouldn't read these posts anymore. I'm actually really sad and worried now :(

[med etudiant]

I highly doubt Saba will shut down. It sounds like theres some faculty turnover. If I were a 4th year I would just ride it out.

[Tyroneous1]

I really like SUSOM. If St. George can survive guerillas with machine guns taking over the campus and St.Matthews can survive being totally demolished, I think SUSOM will weather losing a professor or whatever just fine.

Could you imagine being taken hostage by a rogue military faction? I probably would question my career at that point. Who knows? I might even question my professionalism in that scenario.

"So when Guerilla Militant Mr. F put the gun in my back, I knew that I was probably going to miss Dr. Q's block exam..."

[gridlock]

Really Good Summary!

[brob311]

Invoking "TOS rules" from memory is also highly professional.

cough....cough :roll:

[Tyroneous1]

There should be an arbitrator. I nominate Li, owner/proprietor of The Bottom's own 'little-heaven-on-earth'.....Lime Time Chinese Magic Restaurant.

[AZcopperJim]

There should be an arbitrator. I nominate Li, owner/proprietor of The Bottom's own 'little-heaven-on-earth'.....Lime Time Chinese Magic Restaurant.


Does he have a machete? Is he willing to use it to lop off heads?

[rdecastro]

I really like SUSOM. If St. George can survive guerillas with machine guns taking over the campus and St.Matthews can survive being totally demolished, I think SUSOM will weather losing a professor or whatever just fine.

Could you imagine being taken hostage by a rogue military faction? I probably would question my career at that point. Who knows? I might even question my professionalism in that scenario.

"So when Guerilla Militant Mr. F put the gun in my back, I knew that I was probably going to miss Dr. Q's block exam..."


I can only imagine the admins response to a problem like St. George had. Something like "OK, you all missed the block 4 exam...no makeups, you're repeating the semester".

[Tyroneous1]

I can only imagine the admins response to a problem like St. George had. Something like "OK, you all missed the block 4 exam...no makeups, you're repeating the semester".

That would be fair, right?

Who knows? The best thing that could have happened to St. George was the U.S. government backed their students with guarnteed student loans.

We should only hope to be so lucky.

[Boulderunner]

Is it really that early in the game? All these "rants" are more like a last second hail-mary before the point of no return for a lot of people. Point of no return meaning transferring to another school having lost thousand of dollars..


Well to continue the analogy, the students have over 50% of their grade still to be determined(at least in Hsto). Thats like calling the game before its even half time. Students could be failing and still pull an A in the class. There are many people that do poorly in the first few block exams and pull it together int he latter half of the semester, and they dont go on public forums and cry for change. Again people would be better off spending their time studying rather than going on valuemd and acting liked chicken little crying that the sky is falling.

On another note, I am sad about Dr . J but in regards to what has been said about Dr L the other path prof. I really dont agree with. His tests (at leasts for Path 2) have been totally fair. If you pay attention in class and read the powerpoints you will ace his questions and will have a grasp of the material.

the students that typically are complaining about Dr. L are the ones that sit in the back of the class playing video games, or sleeping.

Maybe if they spent less time falling asleep in class- Some to the point of snoring and farting out loud (you know who you are), they wouldnt think dr L is so tough.

And to all those people that are not yet at saba consider this. Many of the students that have been the most outspoken have double accounts and are the ones that are failing. what you dont hear is all the students that are doing fine, becuase they are too busy studying and trying to learn the material, rather than trying to blame it on bad profs or trying to cram 2 weeks of material in the night before an exam....

People get upset at this and call me a coward for not "standing up for the other students" but honestly it takes more courage to stand up against the angry mob and provide an alternative point of view, than it does to just mindlessly join them.

[darkday]

Apparently, no one from Gardner is going to be there on Wednesday. And neither is adminstration.

This is just Dr. B (who was let go) and Dr. S (who resigned) holding a venting forum for students. So it's going to go nowhere. They'll hand over student issues to admin which will just get filed in a drawer by the deans.

I knew this meeting was just a stalling tactic to get students to calm down.

But how can you get students to calm down when you demote an amazing teacher who stood up for students, then threaten to fire him on the spot for supposedly inciting the students. And then you let numerous good professors leave. This isn't one professor.

When you have a lazy drug addict (who spends more time telling stories in class than actually teaching) take over as course director for both PD and ClinMed... When you have profs who got fired from AUC because they caused staff division and failed too many students, and then you promote them to course director of pathology and dean of STUDENTS... When you replace anatomists with professors who have to look in a book before giving you an answer (oh, there's a tibula?)... When you have an academic dean who yells at his own students and calls them idiots for failing his test... when you have the dean of the school threatening to fire anyone on the spot for voicing concerns (multiple profs, I won't call them out), you know the direction of the school is bad.

And wait until the semester is over and the dean can't touch the leaving professors. then the true dirt will come out. A lot of people are holding back out of possible jeopardy because the profs still have to work until the end of the semester.

[darkday]

Boulderunner, you are so off-based on much of what you said. I can't tell if you really believe this or you're just trying to save your tail by saving the school. No one wants to have the school shut down because if the school goes down, we all go down. But we're not children anymore where we just accept things as the way they are.

People have sank hundreds of thousands of dollars into this. They upheaved their entire lives. they have put their families thru a lot of stress. they have given up their old lives to achieve their new dreams. Don't so casually dismiss them as school fodder who don't have what it takes. Yes, there's a broad range of students ranging from those just out of college who were forced to go to med school all the way to those more seasoned who are balancing family, giving up old careers, etc.

And to demean your classmates by saying they're lazy and don't study until the night before the exam is ludicrous. And don't try to speak for the rest of us. Calling all the dissenters "failing students" is uncalled for. I can't speak for the first semesters. Who knows, maybe they thought med school is supposed to be easy, and now want an easy way out. I haven't seen what their tests are like now.

But people in fourth and fifth semesters should know better. We're moving on to clinicals just like you and are going to be leaving this mess. But we don't live in a vacuum. Call me idealistic or foolish or whatever, but we should not be in it for ourselves. No one is calling for easy exams or big curves. Hard tests are fine as long as you have the quality teaching behind it.

AUC flunkie has toned it back big time this semester, I'll grant you that. He's not longer declaring in class that the bottom 10% of the students should never make it out of medical school, that a question is a good question if the top 10% of the class gets it right, that people should reevaluate their career options after a bad exam. I'll chalk that up to having been handed the keys to a brand new car and not wanting to dirty it up right away.

We don't ask for you to stand up for the students. We ask you to tell it like it is. No more sugar coating.



Well to continue the analogy, the students have over 50% of their grade still to be determined(at least in Hsto). Thats like calling the game before its even half time. Students could be failing and still pull an A in the class. There are many people that do poorly in the first few block exams and pull it together int he latter half of the semester, and they dont go on public forums and cry for change. Again people would be better off spending their time studying rather than going on valuemd and acting liked chicken little crying that the sky is falling.

On another note, I am sad about Dr . J but in regards to what has been said about Dr L the other path prof. I really dont agree with. His tests (at leasts for Path 2) have been totally fair. If you pay attention in class and read the powerpoints you will ace his questions and will have a grasp of the material.

the students that typically are complaining about Dr. L are the ones that sit in the back of the class playing video games, or sleeping.

Maybe if they spent less time falling asleep in class- Some to the point of snoring and farting out loud (you know who you are), they wouldnt think dr L is so tough.

And to all those people that are not yet at saba consider this. Many of the students that have been the most outspoken have double accounts and are the ones that are failing. what you dont hear is all the students that are doing fine, becuase they are too busy studying and trying to learn the material, rather than trying to blame it on bad profs or trying to cram 2 weeks of material in the night before an exam....

People get upset at this and call me a coward for not "standing up for the other students" but honestly it takes more courage to stand up against the angry mob and provide an alternative point of view, than it does to just mindlessly join them.

[darkday]

Do anyone have confirmation of the rumors that the administration is trying to stop the student transfers by not allowing the transcripts to be transferred over?

First they "ran out of forms" (which is confirmed by a prof). Now this.


As for honest2beme... I'll have one disagreement... The new makeup exam policy. I find it reasonable because a lot of students were abusing the policy to get a couple more days of studying or to space out their exams. i.e., taking the pharm test but skipping the path test to study more. I don't think stubbing your toe counts for missing an exam. I even remember profs telling students (who were going to make up the exam) that they couldn't sit in on the post-exam review because that would give them an additional advantage (in addition to the extra days of studying).

Coincidentally, this wasn't a big problem before the AUC profs came. Go figure...

As for post-exam review, yeah, they need to bring that back. The point is to have the students LEARN THE MATERIAL. You shouldn't worry about these students failing and retaking the exam. And if you're willing to work hard as a professor, you should be willing to write new questions which would avoid this mess in the first place. I still laugh when I think of a story brought up by the semester that just left. When on the post exam for clin med, Dr. S said, "the answer for this question was blah blah blah. " and the students replied, "what was the question?"
he goes, "i can't tell you the question because we don't want you to remember the questions and we're told not to tell you."
that just made a farce out of post-exam review.

[golfman]

Well to continue the analogy, the students have over 50% of their grade still to be determined(at least in Hsto). Thats like calling the game before its even half time. Students could be failing and still pull an A in the class. There are many people that do poorly in the first few block exams and pull it together int he latter half of the semester, and they dont go on public forums and cry for change. Again people would be better off spending their time studying rather than going on valuemd and acting liked chicken little crying that the sky is falling.

On another note, I am sad about Dr . J but in regards to what has been said about Dr L the other path prof. I really dont agree with. His tests (at leasts for Path 2) have been totally fair. If you pay attention in class and read the powerpoints you will ace his questions and will have a grasp of the material.

the students that typically are complaining about Dr. L are the ones that sit in the back of the class playing video games, or sleeping.

Maybe if they spent less time falling asleep in class- Some to the point of snoring and farting out loud (you know who you are), they wouldnt think dr L is so tough.

And to all those people that are not yet at saba consider this. Many of the students that have been the most outspoken have double accounts and are the ones that are failing. what you dont hear is all the students that are doing fine, becuase they are too busy studying and trying to learn the material, rather than trying to blame it on bad profs or trying to cram 2 weeks of material in the night before an exam....

People get upset at this and call me a coward for not "standing up for the other students" but honestly it takes more courage to stand up against the angry mob and provide an alternative point of view, than it does to just mindlessly join them.

I'm going to have to agree with Boulder here on this one. After taking our final set of Exams on Saba I have nothing negative to say about Dr. L. I felt like his exam was very fair. In fact, I felt his section was much easier than the Dr. K. Sure he is a tough teacher who is a bit hard to get to know on a personal level, but in alot of ways I think that is much better. Things get confusing whenever the student/teacher relationship gets broken and it becomes more of a friendship. Although it might not be what you prefer, I think sometimes it is best this way. Congrats to all 5th semester students for finishing out last exams on Saba.

[darkmansaad]

things to do to secure a competitive residency
rock step 1
rock your rotations
get good evaluations while rocking your rotations
actually learn something while being worked/scutted during your rotations
get good Letters of Recommendations for residency
plan any away rotations at competitive institutions to increase chances of a good match
rock Step 2 ck
pass step 2 cs
overcome IMG bias to get the residency you want
match day and the overwhelming stress

i think about 12 spots further downi would add "overthrowing the Dr L agenda" right after "checking my abs in the mirror when i wake up to make sure they still look good". i hope you all fairly understand what is coming at you and if you cannot handle this without venting online you will be pwned by the grand design that is Life. Boulder, keep up the good work, people like you are the ones that interview at university based residency programs instead of img sweatshops. The rest of you, enjoy the IMG sweatshops that will take you and the 140 hour weeks for 3-5 years they will put you through when you will wish for the days when you were given multiple choice exams. Feel free to ignore this post if you dont want a competitive residency, when i get one thank me later for opening doors for other saba students behind me b/c i dont let things get in my way and i mean that in the least cocky way possible. Also, those who know what i look like, imaging me flexing on you right now...i mean that in the most cocky way possible.

[darkday]

Hey Saad,

not everyone can score 240+ and not everyone has study buddies like GC so they have no one to make up for the lack of teaching by some profs here (like Dr. S being demoted to anatomy from clinmed).

[gumby]

Hey Saad,

not everyone can score 240+ and not everyone has study buddies like GC so they have no one to make up for the lack of teaching by some profs here (like Dr. S being demoted to anatomy from clinmed).

What a load of **! It is possible for any med student to score 240+. The reason most don't is because most aren't willing to pay the price. Just because Iceman did doesn't mean you get to hate on him for doing it. (By the way, congrats saad).
Look at is this way. You will never bench as much as me. Not because you don't have the capacity, but because I never see you at the gym. Ponder on this while I do another set.... :rolleyes:

[boobird]

Considering the low bar of 'admission' into caribb schools (20 mcats, etc) , I for one am not surprised by the 28 failing grades in immuno. Is anyone else?

[brob311]

. You will never bench as much as me. Not because you don't have the capacity, but because I never see you at the gym. Ponder on this while I do another set.... :rolleyes:

Actually, muscley arms, each and eveyrone has their own potential that they can reach, regardless of how many times they train, study, work out.

You can train to be the fastest man in the world, but you will eventually plateau, and only the one's who are gifted (potential # of type II fibers in this case) will be able to compete at an olympic level regardless of their consistent training.

Body building, bench pressing in your situation, even with the juice, we can only put up so much, and we reach an end point where are body can do no more. Only those genetically blessed with the help of training and BALCO sometimes, will bench 500 +, or be professional body-builders.

Which brings me to the final point...Some of us can study all we want, but some of those have been given the gift of intellect more than others and their potential, Vmax if you will, is higher than others, so you can study till you throw up but you won't get that 260 or whatever.

This is not to say that doing really well is impossible, but it comes easier to some than others

Do you like popsicles gumby, I got a whole cellar full of them.

[gumby]

Actually, muscley arms, each and eveyrone has their own potential that they can reach, regardless of how many times they train, study, work out.

You can train to be the fastest man in the world, but you will eventually plateau, and only the one's who are gifted (potential # of type II fibers in this case) will be able to compete at an olympic level regardless of their consistent training.

Body building, bench pressing in your situation, even with the juice, we can only put up so much, and we reach an end point where are body can do no more. Only those genetically blessed with the help of training and BALCO sometimes, will bench 500 +, or be professional body-builders.

Which brings me to the final point...Some of us can study all we want, but some of those have been given the gift of intellect more than others and their potential, Vmax if you will, is higher than others, so you can study till you throw up but you won't get that 260 or whatever.

This is not to say that doing really well is impossible, but it comes easier to some than others

Do you like popsicles gumby, I got a whole cellar full of them.

Don't fear the bench my friend. Embrace it. It is your friend. Like a cruel taskmaster that gives out periodic rewards. The library is much like the gym. Learn to love the pain. The rewards come despite all the herbs complaining.

[JeebusLives]

Well to continue the analogy, the students have over 50% of their grade still to be determined(at least in Hsto). Thats like calling the game before its even half time. Students could be failing and still pull an A in the class. There are many people that do poorly in the first few block exams and pull it together int he latter half of the semester, and they dont go on public forums and cry for change. Again people would be better off spending their time studying rather than going on valuemd and acting liked chicken little crying that the sky is falling.

On another note, I am sad about Dr . J but in regards to what has been said about Dr L the other path prof. I really dont agree with. His tests (at leasts for Path 2) have been totally fair. If you pay attention in class and read the powerpoints you will ace his questions and will have a grasp of the material.

the students that typically are complaining about Dr. L are the ones that sit in the back of the class playing video games, or sleeping.

Maybe if they spent less time falling asleep in class- Some to the point of snoring and farting out loud (you know who you are), they wouldnt think dr L is so tough.

And to all those people that are not yet at saba consider this. Many of the students that have been the most outspoken have double accounts and are the ones that are failing. what you dont hear is all the students that are doing fine, becuase they are too busy studying and trying to learn the material, rather than trying to blame it on bad profs or trying to cram 2 weeks of material in the night before an exam....

People get upset at this and call me a coward for not "standing up for the other students" but honestly it takes more courage to stand up against the angry mob and provide an alternative point of view, than it does to just mindlessly join them.

I'm sorry boulder but you must have misinterpreted my analogy. The game I was referring to wasn't a single class or anything. It was more about the change in the school's attitude towards the students and how it would force them to either leave this school for another or just think that medicine may be too much for them and quit.

Also I won't lie about this histo situation, I did tell anyone that asked me how I studied for it that I didn't spend more than a day on it and got A's. I refuse to believe that 90% of students are failing that class even while studying much more than I did is due to pure laziness or stupidity. There has to be something wrong with the system and the course.

About Dr. L, you yourself said "at least in path 2". I agree that this semester his exams have been very fair. But last semester, especially considering the topic of liver, I don't believe we were prepared for the exam he gave. My major problem with Dr. L is that his powerpoints are terrible. The worst learning material I have ever encountered. They are disorganized and incomplete. I believe he does this on purpose to force us to read the textbook in addition to his powerpoint but I think the material he provides should be the best he can make it. I don't like brining up the fact that I pay part of his salary, but I do. So I expect him to try reasonably hard to prepare me for his exams, the USMLE and most importantly life as a physician. Which I believe Dr. J has done a much better job of (including clinical scenarios, expected lab values, most important clinical findings etc.).

Also boulder I’d like to thank you for your personal attack on me (I’m the lazy farter who sleeps in and class and plays games he is referring to). I apologize if my farting and snoring has disturbed you in class but you have the school’s attendance policy to thank for that ;). But my personal studies have shown that 100% of lazy sleeping gaming farters score over US average on every shelf exam given to date (except psych but there was a lot of neuro and pharm on that so you can’t blame me :p). Also there is also one outlier I know of, another lazy sleeper who has received the top score on multiple shelves (our melanin deficient friend).

Which brings me to the final point...Some of us can study all we want, but some of those have been given the gift of intellect more than others and their potential, Vmax if you will, is higher than others, so you can study till you throw up but you won't get that 260 or whatever.

This is not to say that doing really well is impossible, but it comes easier to some than others

Also I'd like to add that I think it is very disrespectful to say that anyone can get a 240+. Just go to the USMLE forums on this website and read about some students hardship of even getting a passing score. Accusing them of just being lazy is ridiculous. Some of them study for months and can't make it. Appreciate the fact that nature has gifted you with the ability to do so well.

[Boulderunner]

I'm sorry boulder but you must have misinterpreted my analogy. The game I was referring to wasn't a single class or anything.....

My major problem with Dr. L is that his powerpoints are terrible. The worst learning material I have ever encountered..

Backpeddling already...

try staying awake during his lectures , they might make a lot more sense.

Saying that the only reason that you sleep in class is that they take attendance? What do you think they do in US schools?

You complain about not getting your moneys worth and yet you dont even have the integrity to stay awake to listen to the profs lectures...
And that is besides the fact of how completely unprofesional it makes you look.

Are you going to sleep in clinicals during the day too becuase they require you to go??????
F-ing ridiculous.....

[Gigi25]

Hey Saad,

not everyone can score 240+ and not everyone has study buddies like GC so they have no one to make up for the lack of teaching by some profs here (like Dr. S being demoted to anatomy from clinmed).

Hahaha I had to laugh at this, sorry!! What about the rest of us who scored >90 on the Step I? I don't think GC helped us... we had an anatomy professor who thought the heart's apex faces to the RIGHT. He claimed to be a thoracic surgeon in whatever country he came from. later hevwas fired because he was obviously a fraud. We had a genetics teacher who got drunk with students, didn't know ANY genetics/made his test impossible, and when confronted about it would not answer where he got his material from. He simply didn't know how to explain his tests, because he didn't know the material himself. Oh, he also "taught" biochem .Another instructor "resigned" after multiple incidents, I think one involved being drunk in class.Look, in every school there are bad professors, including US schools. Its bound to happen in a place where professor turnover is high. Just get off the island!! If you feel ill prepared, evaluate how you are scoring on the shelf exams and compare your mark with the US average. Take a review course, if you feel you need to, for the step I. They have loan options for everyone. It WILL be worth it. As far as the rotation problems, I think every school (with the exception of SGU, prob) has issues. You will graduate and be an MD if you can focus on that goal. Block out all the other nonsense. I had to talk to old SABA friends to remind me, that we had some strange instructors too. We made it out of there, as will you. Some of us are even practicing physicians (alas not me, YET!!! :p)

[JeebusLives]

Backpeddling already...

try staying awake during his lectures , they might make a lot more sense.

Saying that the only reason that you sleep in class is that they take attendance? What do you think they do in US schools?

You complain about not getting your moneys worth and yet you dont even have the integrity to stay awake to listen to the profs lectures...
And that is besides the fact of how completely unprofesional it makes you look.

Are you going to sleep in clinicals during the day too becuase they require you to go??????
F-ing ridiculous.....

Sorry buddy i think i got you a little angry. A bad time since path shelf is coming up. Also I dont want this thread to degrade into a 1 v 1 flame war between us so i'll just clarify what i was saying instead of adding new info (i know its easy to misinterpret things on the internet :p)...

About the powerpoints. I think that the study material a professor provides should contain all important information. I'm sorry if we disagree about this but I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

About the attendance policy comment. I meant that I would never be in class if there was no attendance policy so you wouldn't have to deal with me :D

I won't be sleeping in clinicals because I need the rotations to learn. I don't need lectures to learn textbook info. Do need clinical exposure to learn clinical material vs Don't need lecture to learn textbook info. I'm not illiterate, I can handle that part on my own. I hope thats more clear tho I feel that we may have to agree to disagree again ;). Also from what I've heard most US schools do not have attendance policies.

About the "backpeddling" im sorry you didn't understand what I was talking about earlier. One histo class isn't that important to me. The schools total disregard for student satisfaction is. I don't want to have to post Dr. S's comments (from the mass protest last week) to us about how unsignificant we are.

Good luck on path shelf friend. :D

PS- I do understand why you are touting the company line vs the students, it is the smart move to make at this point. Gaining the school's favor is a good choice. Just make sure to wipe the brown off your nose before you interview for residency :p

[Gigi25]

PS- I do understand why you are touting the company line vs the students, it is the smart move to make at this point. Gaining the school's favor is a good choice. Just make sure to wipe the brown off your nose before you interview for residency :p

nice.... how does one "gain the school's favor"? I should have probably learned this a long time ago, as the school probably dislikes me. hmmmm

[Experienced]

Well to continue the analogy, the students have over 50% of their grade still to be determined(at least in Hsto)... Students could be failing and still pull an A in the class. There are many people that do poorly in the first few block exams and pull it together int he latter half of the semester....

"Hey, I pulled it off - I PASSED Histo!!! Hello? Anyone? Oh wait, damn, I destroyed my school during my tantrum..." :shock:

E.

-

[Experienced]

Don't fear the bench my friend. Embrace it.

I'm trying to picture what kind of presses you do if you're embracing the bench. Ok, no, NO.... I'm not !!

:headspin:

btw, YouTube - Led Zeppelin - Kashmir (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=tTaOvzZKRxA&feature=related)

[Experienced]

Hahaha I had to laugh at this, sorry!! What about the rest of us who scored >90 on the Step I? I don't think GC helped us... we had an anatomy professor who thought the heart's apex faces to the RIGHT. He claimed to be a thoracic surgeon in whatever country he came from. later hevwas fired because he was obviously a fraud. We had a genetics teacher who got drunk with students, didn't know ANY genetics/made his test impossible, and when confronted about it would not answer where he got his material from. He simply didn't know how to explain his tests, because he didn't know the material himself. Oh, he also "taught" biochem .Another instructor "resigned" after multiple incidents, I think one involved being drunk in class.

I nominate Gigi for the SUSOM Public Relations Committee.

:roll:

-

[gumby]

[quote=Experienced;857219]I'm trying to picture what kind of presses you do if you're embracing the bench. Ok, no, NO.... I'm not !!]

Too late... you already did it. Or are you going to claim that a bench is sometimes just a bench? ;)

[Gigi25]

I nominate Gigi for the SUSOM Public Relations Committee.

:roll:

-

lol, as they say "stuff happens"! I still luv my school, I would'nt be this close to my dreams had it not been for SABA. I still have no regrets (except all the money I blew at casinos in St. Maarten).
:hicup:

[darkmansaad]

Hey Saad,

not everyone can score 240+ and not everyone has study buddies like GC so they have no one to make up for the lack of teaching by some profs here (like Dr. S being demoted to anatomy from clinmed).

First off, you just referred to me and my buddy by name which is flagrant TOS violation....i've gotten infractions for worse than that. Second off, you know both our names which shows i dont hide behind a user name created specifically to rant on an issue, i've been on this forum since i joined the school and i consider it my personal mission to control the herbs out there, you know who you are.
Secondly, i didnt mention my scores or anyone elses score in my posts, people should be proud with how they do on the usmle and their efforts and i dont bring that up nor rank on them for it so chill with that; btw i never had a study buddy except for pharm...everything me and anyone i hung out did, with was achieved by hard work and hard play, sitting at home staring at your books doesnt give you an A.
Thirdly my post made some points which your advanced reading ability apparently never comprehended so im going to summarize it for you simply=
1) I never said your problems werent real or worthy of concern, all i said was i didnt agree with your approach to it. Caribbean medicine is hard, and full of ** at times. All you can do is fight through and match and then forget about everything that happened. What are you going to do, fight for 12 out of your 18 months and then start clinicals? Great you win your little dispute but u end up with less knowledge cuz of all the time u spent arguing and venting with your friends in your free time instead of relaxing and drinking yummy heinekens. And i dont mean grades, i mean knowledge....i had C's and B's almost throughout basic sciences and almost failed out first semester but i still learned, despite exams that i had issues with... I didnt cry about it i just worked hard, no excuses no **.
2) The mozzarella cheese on my salads, is grated off my razor sharp abs, which you dont have cuz while you are complaining i am getting diesel.
3) Anyone can get any score at any given time. Studying is not spending hours staring at a book and saying you work hard. Med school is about working smart, not hard. Ive seen dumber people make it through basic sci and people that stress out get pushed back a semester. Saba does a good job preparing you for step 1 if you focus on your work as hard as you can...somtimes thats not possible (aka some people have families on the island which is a stress on them that is out of their hands but i commend them) but most of the time it is. Trust me on this, any saba grad can break 90 on the step, its all hard work...once you take the test and compare it to first aid you realize you had the entire test in your hands and thats the way it is. Stop crying.
4) My bench press is pathetic compared to the size of my pectorals. Why is that you ask? Because i work out smart and hard, so regardless of the weight i am more diesel than you. And as we all get older, the herbs get fatter so even though i may stay at a constant diesel, relative to the rest of you i am achieving higher levels of diesel. Making me an all round better person than the herbs.

If someone wants to rank on me, please make it someone whos been on this forum and doesnt hide behind created screen names. You all know who i am.

Iceman

[darkday]

First off, you just referred to me and my buddy by name which is flagrant TOS violation....i've gotten infractions for worse than that. Second off, you know both our names which shows i dont hide behind a user name created specifically to rant on an issue, i've been on this forum since i joined the school and i consider it my personal mission to control the herbs out there, you know who you are.
Iceman

For one thing. Your name is darkmansaad. All I did was cut it. And last I checked, GC is just two letters. :p

As for the rest of the post, I agree with you. The reason why I agree is because you're telling a more complete story here than in your previous posts. See, I know your background story and i know the profs you had and the what you did for the step. Before, you were just saying, lalalala, just study hard and the world will be a better place for you... which doesn't tell nearly enough about the reality of the situation.

That said, I don't know if you would be talking the way you do if you scored a 205. the problem with the posters (the non-administration posters) is that most are either the keeners or the not-so-keeners. there's no in-betweeners like me. I think a realistic score for me is between 215-230. I doubt I have the work ethic or brain power to get 240+.

There'd be more balance to the posting if there were more midlevel students like me. it's hard to filter out the noise when you have some students raving that the tests are too hard and the high scoring students defending profs like Dr. L when in reality, these students are self-teaching themselves and could care less what Dr. L does. they're simply toeing the company line out of self-preservation.

If you get a good education, you can say bring it on with the testing. Dr. L gave easy block 3 questions for path2. That doesn't make up for his attitude toward the students or his teaching. Because an easy test doesn't tell you anything about your learning or preparation. And again, this isn't about one prof. This isn't a normal situation here. Have you ever had so much bad change in one semester? Have you ever had a semester involve 10 professors? If you ever come back here, you won't recognize this school at all. We are now Ross, Jr. As soon as they're done building the new testing lab, they're going to 120+ students immediately and then ramp up from there.

Anyway, back to shelf studying! Good luck everyone! We need to get out of here! :)

[candu]

:eek::eek::eek:

[maserati]

HA! I love this ....

SABA sent me a letter saying that I can no longer go to the school & a refund of my application/deposit fee.

" due to the changes in our enrollment structure ... "


It's obviously because I gave them tons of trouble with my questions and protests regarding the recent admin style & school facilities etc.

The worst thing is ...

" we sincerely regret that we must cancel your enrollment ... for January 2009 ... "


BUT I WAS NOT EVEN REGISTERED FOR JAN 2009.




What a school.
They see students demanding changes / rights, so they kick them out.
And they're not even professional enough to check that the enrollment semester is correct in the letter.

[Tellingitlikeitis]

as i have said before, if u cause trouble for the admin they will get rid of you. let this either be a lesson or a warning> sorry maserati but u r better off. Besides, this med school stuff sucks

[Experienced]

HA! I love this ....

SABA sent me a letter saying that I can no longer go to the school & a refund of my application/deposit fee.

" due to the changes in our enrollment structure ... "


It's obviously because I gave them tons of trouble with my questions and protests regarding the recent admin style & school facilities etc.

The worst thing is ...

" we sincerely regret that we must cancel your enrollment ... for January 2009 ... "


BUT I WAS NOT EVEN REGISTERED FOR JAN 2009.




What a school.
They see students demanding changes / rights, so they kick them out.
And they're not even professional enough to check that the enrollment semester is correct in the letter.


I doubt that is the reason - it's not "obvious" - but if it is, there may be a valuable lesson here for you: don't bite the hand that feeds you BEFORE you even get on the premises. :rolleyes:

E.

-

[Experienced]

Thanks Tellingitlikeitis for yet another obscenity-laced Private Message. :rolleyes: You'll make a great physician.

E.

-

[GQ-Loud]

I have to give it to our Dean, he showed leadership up there and answered alot of questions for 4 hours.
Clap Clap...
In terms of changes I feel there will be positive ones but not sure if all of the request that were mentioned will be met.
I hope things move fast though since the school is still one of the best in the caribbean and I hope they keep it that way

BY THE WAY Good Job with the meeting everyone!!!!

I actually didn't make this thread to start all the commotion but instead to just to raise one concern but I guess the situation was worse than I thought. In the end I hope that this thread did more good than harm.

Like someone said, the future of our school is in our dean's hand now. After the meeting I felt that he now has a clear idea of what we want and that he will do the right thing for us.

[JeebusLives]

Yea, from what I hear from our class reps he is a good guy and very receptive to ideas.

The problem is that he waited until things got out of hand to make an initiative to hear the students out.

There was too much negativity at the school with many of the problems occurring at the same time. Hopefully this meeting wasn't just to save face and the concerns are actually addressed.

[Compassion MD]

Hi Sabans..,.


I am a student at Sint Eustatius... I am just curious on what is going on with Saba.... why are there so many students transferring to Sint Eustatius? If there is something with the administration... then how come not as many MUA-N transfer too then...

Curious... thanks.

[maserati]

Mmmmm..... sour grapes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maserati
HA! I love this ....

SABA sent me a letter saying that I can no longer go to the school & a refund of my application/deposit fee.

" due to the changes in our enrollment structure ... "


It's obviously because I gave them tons of trouble with my questions and protests regarding the recent admin style & school facilities etc.

The worst thing is ...

" we sincerely regret that we must cancel your enrollment ... for January 2009 ... "


BUT I WAS NOT EVEN REGISTERED FOR JAN 2009.




What a school.
They see students demanding changes / rights, so they kick them out.
And they're not even professional enough to check that the enrollment semester is correct in the letter.

I doubt that is the reason - it's not "obvious" - but if it is, there may be a valuable lesson here for you: don't bite the hand that feeds you BEFORE you even get on the premises.

I doubt that is the reason - it's not "obvious" - but if it is, there may be a valuable lesson here for you: don't bite the hand that feeds you BEFORE you even get on the premises. :rolleyes:

E.

-

[teratos]

Experienced is, unfortunately correct. Things are a little different at these schools. They are privately run businesses. These are not like US universities where there is a big appeals process/grievance process. You pretty much take what they give you. If you make a lot of noise before you even get there, they smell trouble. Think about it. Are going to give that spot to someone who will come in, do what they are there to do and leave in 2 years, or someone who is going to be making a lot of noise (AKA more work/headaches for the admin). I'm not saying it's right, it is what it is.

[CANKID]

Is there anything else you can let us accepted/prospective students know about what went on in that meeting with the Dean?
Thanks

[Gigi25]

Thanks Tellingitlikeitis for yet another obscenity-laced Private Message. :rolleyes: You'll make a great physician.

E.

-

LOL, I dont know why this is funny to me. Must be going nuts from studyin

[maserati]

Experienced is, unfortunately correct. Things are a little different at these schools. They are privately run businesses. These are not like US universities where there is a big appeals process/grievance process. You pretty much take what they give you. If you make a lot of noise before you even get there, they smell trouble. Think about it. Are going to give that spot to someone who will come in, do what they are there to do and leave in 2 years, or someone who is going to be making a lot of noise (AKA more work/headaches for the admin). I'm not saying it's right, it is what it is.



I understand your point, and that is the unfortunate part ...

I made a lot of "noise", demanding positive academic/professional changes to a school where I'll be dumping $60k a year. I supported students' rights and for SABA to provide answers to incoming students and also be honest/updated with their ads.

In my opinion, private or public, if you're an educational institution, then it should adhere to a high level of professionalism.

Especially the way they kicked me out.

They didn't even bother to come up with a good enough excuse to cover up the fact that they couldn't answer incoming students' demands/questions ( solution : kick them out and keep it all hidden )

And ... as I've said before ... they didn't even get my registration date right.

[woods]

Anyone have any more information about what is going on down on the island now? There were so many posts last week and now everyone is mum on the situation - what gives?
Thanks!!

[maserati]

If you ask too many questions you get kicked out. Can you say, fascism?

A lot of people withdrew from the school, they don't care anymore.

People realised that questions/answer, SABA doesn't care. They just want your money so discussing it doesn't really matter.

[darkmansaad]

refer to the congratulations to the ballaz thread for more information on what is going on with current students not students that got in then got out without stepping foot on the island

[RPhtoMD]

refer to the congratulations to the ballaz thread for more information on what is going on with current students not students that got in then got out without stepping foot on the island

Absolutely in total agreement with you on that one. But I haven't even stepped foot on the island yet, hopefully I can emulate that in a couple of years.

[desihakeem]

I was originally accepted for May 08 class but I couldn't attend due to financial issues. I am so glad that I am not in Saba anymore. I can't believe how one semester can change the entire outlook of a school so much.

[gianefiasco]

i think you guys should stop crying. sorry to be the guy to say it, when the brown stuff hits the fan you can wonder about the direction the school is taking or wonder about the direction you are taking. if even one person in the class is getting above a 90, why isnt that person you? there will be no curve on the usmle to save you; i had one of the profs from AUC his first semester in pathology, first exam average was hovering around a 60 and i got my first fail at a 69 on the exam. i could either cry about it and look for a curve or bust my *** to somehow make an A despite starting out with a 69. PS = my class which was the first class to get this guy who was initially hated on cuz of his no nonsense approach had over 10 people post 99's on the USMLE and many more above 95. Life is no place for excuses my friend


It's so true. If there is "one person doing well why isn't it you?".
We have been preaching the No-curves/bust your *** approach since semester 1 and been hated all along for saying it.
Funny thing is, that we're the same one's rocking the boards.....Possible connection?

[gianefiasco]

I was originally accepted for May 08 class but I couldn't attend due to financial issues. I am so glad that I am not in Saba anymore. I can't believe how one semester can change the entire outlook of a school so much.

your post makes no sense.

1. you did not attend for financial reasons.
2. somehow after not attending your happy you are no longer on SABA.
3.?????

[mamashi]

That makes no sense at all!!!

there are people in our class who have graduated from Nursing or Chiropractic schools and some who have taken clinical anatomy at other schools before coming here and they are no reason why a person who has just came here from undergrad to get a 90 just like them. YES only those people in our class have been getting the 90's that you're talking about...

One thing about the USMLE! may be you didn't know this before you made that "smart" comment but they evaluate your score based on the people that have taken that exam on that day within the same area! Therefore EVERYONE should be equal and if they are not well that just means that they prepared differently be it taking more courses or not BUT this is MEDschool and the Average of the courses should not be the same as the passing mark of 75% or in most cases LOWER!!

Thinking before making comments is always important!!

[mamashi]

Just one last thing to mention about USMLE is that this is a STANDARDIZED exam! Nothing compared to our unbelievable Histology exam that was written for the pleasure of Dr. S who has admitted that he put those questions on to "to see who gets them" that should not be the reason for any question. Or another reason given for putting questions on student presentations was "to make sure you pay attention"! I believe USMLE does not play a mind game just for fun! they place questions that is important in becoming a doctor...

I hope I made you understand why so many people admitted in the school are not as unintelligent as you might claim them (us) to be!

[darkmansaad]

mamashi...dont make assumptions cuz u know what happens when you assume?

heres a question from my usmle =

If you were giving a lecture to a college class about the transmission of HIV, which of the following methods would result in the least chance of HIV transmission?
a) sheeps skin condom with petroleum based lubricant
b) latex condom with water based lubricant
c) sheep skin condom with water based lubricant
d) latex condom with petroleum based lubricant
e) oral sex

??? yeah thats what i thought. You will see unfair questions and unfair attendings and unfair co workers and unfair everything your entire career. STOP CRYING!!!! There are many more ridiculous USMLE questions where u just go excuse me???? But i should probably blame saba and the histology professor for not teaching me the difference between sheeps skin and latex condoms, to say nothing about water based vs petroleum based lubricants.
All you herbs in basic sciences that think you know everything and how everything runs need to listen up to those ahead of you that have triumphed over the problems you are going through. I cant wait to see if/when you make it clinicals and get PWNED HARD, by your attendings and by life itself when you realize that everything i've been saying on this forum is true. You want to be a doctor? Or a lawyer? cuz u guys have arguments to just about everything except for the fact that i am more diesel than all of you which apparently is the only unrefutable thing i've been saying on here

AND YES, i believe the AVERAGE mark should be the bare minimum to pass. Next time your at your doctors office ask yourself if you wanted a "below average" doctor in charge of your health. This isnt a job in the finance sector, you are a doctor, think long and hard about it, u just may understand.

[mamashi]

I must say that you are the one assuming!! by calling us herbs I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, however I can tell you for sure that you did NOT go through what we have gone through this semester and this is what every single upper semesters have told us just that!

I must say that it's quite amazing how you would recall all the choices to your questions! I also find it amusing that someone in his clinical or how much high above you say you are is still interested in postings on VMD! I know if I was in clinical I would not be here arguing with first semesters about their daily struggles!!

Just remember this... Not everyone is wrong!!! there are enough posts out there in support of the validity of my comments... and the fact that the school took notice is another reason why people like you who are not here should simply bugger OFF!

[golfman]

I must say that you are the one assuming!! by calling us herbs I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, however I can tell you for sure that you did NOT go through what we have gone through this semester and this is what every single upper semesters have told us just that!

I must say that it's quite amazing how you would recall all the choices to your questions! I also find it amusing that someone in his clinical or how much high above you say you are is still interested in postings on VMD! I know if I was in clinical I would not be here arguing with first semesters about their daily struggles!!

Just remember this... Not everyone is wrong!!! there are enough posts out there in support of the validity of my comments... and the fact that the school took notice is another reason why people like you who are not here should simply bugger OFF!


I bet he was also that guy who went back to his high school after graduating for the next 3 years and walked around to feel his importance. :)

[Experienced]

Thinking before making comments is always important!!

I hope what isn't happening is what looks like what is happening.

Presuming that you are replying to Gianfiasco, you realise I hope that you, a FIRST semester basic sciences student (little more than that stuff we pour bleach on in the shower) are - how can I say this TOSly? - actually lecturing a person who blew the MLE away and is currently, this very moment, on a surgery clerkship? Man, you are going to have a long long painful journey to an MD if you don't - how would a moderator say this? - change in a positive way.

Most of us - and I'm not talking to the shower growth guy now - eventually noticed that once it really got weird here on Saba during that, ahem, interesting 2 weeks - that once Saba was being portrayed on Valuemd as a school that should be trashed and destroyed rather than praised as one of the most amazing success stories in the Caribbean - that it was a small group of upset first semester students that were the real Axis I cases in this whole thing. OK, and that one upper classman who had a lapse of maturity ('regression' - it's on step 1) upon imbibing too much one evening and the 2 likeable but ADHD guys in fourth.

Notice now who the still-too-aggressive posts are coming from. One or two first semester students who probably won't be here next semester... who have nothing to lose if they trash this school and cause grief to people who have been accepted to come here and are now worried if they made the right choice, cause grief to 5th semester students who are about to start a really cool leg of the adventure and hope their future precepts and attendings haven't been reading Valuemd lately, cause grief to so many students who are actually doing quite well thank you in their first semester courses, and finally causing any grief whatsoever to any professor - professor, ***hole - who has been trashed in public here and whose car you are not worthy to wax.

There is a heirarchy in life for a reason. You need to learn where you are in that heirarchy and act accordingly.

Experienced

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[Experienced]

I must say that you are the one assuming!!

OK, make that TWO people who killed the MLE.

Amazing, simply amazing.........

E.

-

[rdecastro]

mamashi...dont make assumptions cuz u know what happens when you assume?

heres a question from my usmle =

If you were giving a lecture to a college class about the transmission of HIV, which of the following methods would result in the least chance of HIV transmission?
a) sheeps skin condom with petroleum based lubricant
b) latex condom with water based lubricant
c) sheep skin condom with water based lubricant
d) latex condom with petroleum based lubricant
e) oral sex

??? yeah thats what i thought. You will see unfair questions and unfair attendings and unfair co workers and unfair everything your entire career. STOP CRYING!!!! There are many more ridiculous USMLE questions where u just go excuse me???? But i should probably blame saba and the histology professor for not teaching me the difference between sheeps skin and latex condoms, to say nothing about water based vs petroleum based lubricants.
All you herbs in basic sciences that think you know everything and how everything runs need to listen up to those ahead of you that have triumphed over the problems you are going through. I cant wait to see if/when you make it clinicals and get PWNED HARD, by your attendings and by life itself when you realize that everything i've been saying on this forum is true. You want to be a doctor? Or a lawyer? cuz u guys have arguments to just about everything except for the fact that i am more diesel than all of you which apparently is the only unrefutable thing i've been saying on here

AND YES, i believe the AVERAGE mark should be the bare minimum to pass. Next time your at your doctors office ask yourself if you wanted a "below average" doctor in charge of your health. This isnt a job in the finance sector, you are a doctor, think long and hard about it, u just may understand.

Are they all like that? If so, I'm in good shape. Latex, water based. Latex because it's the most homogenous covering, water based because oil based will damage the latex.

[blaster167]

Well stated. It is beyond selfish for one to repeatedly trash the very institution they are attending in order to obtain immediate reprieve without consideration of even their own future. It is important to remember that comments such as these although few, can smear and devalue the hard work put in by the hundreds of students who are doing well and have successfully achieved their goal of becoming a physician.

A balanced observation is in order. Extreme comments should be regarded critically as they often are an inaccurate and slanted representation.

Notice now who the still-too-aggressive posts are coming from. One or two first semester students who probably won't be here next semester... who have nothing to lose if they trash this school and cause grief to people who have been accepted to come here and are now worried if they made the right choice, cause grief to 5th semester students who are about to start a really cool leg of the adventure and hope their future precepts and attendings haven't been reading Valuemd lately, cause grief to so many students who are actually doing quite well thank you in their first semester courses, and finally causing any grief whatsoever to any professor - professor

[gianefiasco]

I hope what isn't happening is what looks like what is happening.

Presuming that you are replying to Gianfiasco, you realise I hope that you, a FIRST semester basic sciences student (little more than that stuff we pour bleach on in the shower) are - how can I say this TOSly? - actually lecturing a person who blew the MLE away and is currently, this very moment, on a surgery clerkship? Man, you are going to have a long long painful journey to an MD if you don't - how would a moderator say this? - change in a positive way.

Most of us - and I'm not talking to the shower growth guy now - eventually noticed that once it really got weird here on Saba during that, ahem, interesting 2 weeks - that once Saba was being portrayed on Valuemd as a school that should be trashed and destroyed rather than praised as one of the most amazing success stories in the Caribbean - that it was a small group of upset first semester students that were the real Axis I cases in this whole thing. OK, and that one upper classman who had a lapse of maturity ('regression' - it's on step 1) upon imbibing too much one evening and the 2 likeable but ADHD guys in fourth.

Notice now who the still-too-aggressive posts are coming from. One or two first semester students who probably won't be here next semester... who have nothing to lose if they trash this school and cause grief to people who have been accepted to come here and are now worried if they made the right choice, cause grief to 5th semester students who are about to start a really cool leg of the adventure and hope their future precepts and attendings haven't been reading Valuemd lately, cause grief to so many students who are actually doing quite well thank you in their first semester courses, and finally causing any grief whatsoever to any professor - professor, ***hole - who has been trashed in public here and whose car you are not worthy to wax.

There is a heirarchy in life for a reason. You need to learn where you are in that heirarchy and act accordingly.

Experienced

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QUOTED FOR EMPHASIS!!!

LOL that was awesome.

[darkmansaad]

i call shenanigans. i post cuz i support people that work hard and dont whine. I also post cuz i hate people that cry. I get plenty of PM's and emails to my email address on a regular basis for questions and i reply to every single one of them promptly in a helpful manner so that they in turn do the same and so that when people like you grow up and reach clinicals or a phase in your medical career you need advice in (such as far flung cities u have to move to for 3 months to rotate and need housing, arrangements and theres people like me ahead of you who can help u set it up with minimal hassle) it will not be as tumultous as what i went through. If in your infinite first semester wisdom u stopped and listened to those tell you how to handle things and by the way we all go through the same stuff. Having a hard histo class doesnt give you a monopoly on med school suffering, there were people in my class with family hardships so severe i would be ashamed to cry about a hard test in front of them. Grow up, man up, or get out. And this is not a basic science forum, this is a Saba student forum. Looks like your not gonna hack it and and be in this forum for long. QQ more

PS = for those who want facts, not opinions. The class 2 semesters ago had over 10 people hit 99 on the USMLE. 10...out of 50. Thats 20%. The class that just finished had 2 people out of their class break 250 to my knowledge (!!!!!!!) and i know that a large group of them all scored above 90. I would go so far as to venture that out of the last 2 classes, half the kids got over a 90 on the USMLE. 90. Think about that. These are numbers, facts, from people that work hard. Also I think in my ranting about working hard i forget about the profs. No ones perfect, but apparently the ones on the island know something about something about usmle scores.

I must say that you are the one assuming!! by calling us herbs I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, however I can tell you for sure that you did NOT go through what we have gone through this semester and this is what every single upper semesters have told us just that!

I must say that it's quite amazing how you would recall all the choices to your questions! I also find it amusing that someone in his clinical or how much high above you say you are is still interested in postings on VMD! I know if I was in clinical I would not be here arguing with first semesters about their daily struggles!!

Just remember this... Not everyone is wrong!!! there are enough posts out there in support of the validity of my comments... and the fact that the school took notice is another reason why people like you who are not here should simply bugger OFF!

[mario345]

^heh, come on dude; dont be so harsh. Yeah, a lot of what the poster has said is 'whining' and something upper students dont have any patience for, but I think we need to realize that as a first semester student, they are very directionless and are still finding a way to get their **it straight. I mean, I try not to laugh at these first semester kids who bring their word docs to my-store and actually STUDY while in the line up (which isnt that long btw), but who am I to judge. I, myself had no clue about what was going on half way into the first semester, but with time, the situation improved. Its a process, the faster everyone understands it, the better off they are.
As for the first semester student who is very actively whining and has been PWND. I would like to tell you that, its only going to get more challenging, and that is why you dont have a point in arguing and whining. Yeah, sure...we understand your situation - you guys got a raw deal. But, we ALL have had to deal with this at one time or another. You are nothing special. I am no wise guy, but the measure of true character of A