Arkansas adopts CA list - how sad

[nevisbutterfly]

State to list ‘disapproved’ Caribbean medical schools

By Carolyne Park (http://www2.arkansasonline.com/staff/carolyne-park/) (Contact (http://www2.arkansasonline.com/staff/carolyne-park/contact/))



LITTLE ROCK — The Arkansas State Medical Board is developing a list of foreign medical schools considered so poor in quality that their graduates won’t be allowed to practice medicine in the Natural State.
After more than eight months of consideration, board members Friday agreed to follow the Medical Board of California’s list of “approved” and “disapproved” schools as its main guide in deciding which Caribbean medical schools will be blacklisted in Arkansas.
The list of disapproved schools will help the board “weed out” inadequate doctors and prevent them from practicing in Arkansas, board member Dr. Joseph Beck said.
“What we’re trying to do is protect the people of Arkansas the best way we know how,” Beck said.
While U.S. medical schools must meet national accreditation standards, some other countries don’t have similar standards.State medical boards responsible for regulating and licensing physicians are left to determine which schools have credible programs, but most don’t have the resources to evaluate schools themselves.
California’s board is the exception, said Dr. Trent P. Pierce, chairman of the Arkansas board.
“California is the only state that does its own site reviews of medical schools, and its list in many cases is the gold standard for which schools [state medical boards] will allow and not allow,” he said.
Several states use California’s list as a guide, including Vermont, Alaska and New Mexico.
“We don’t need to reinvent the wheel,” Beck said.
There are more than 1,800 foreign medical schools, and about 25 percent of doctors practicing in the U.S. today graduated from foreign medical schools, according to the Federation of State Medical Boards.
Arkansas’ medical board doesn’t track the number of doctors in the state who graduated from medical schools outside the United States.
The Educational Commission for Foreign Medical School Graduates, which evaluates foreign medical school graduates to see if they’re qualified to enter U.S. residency or fellowship programs, approved 10,172 people last year.
The California board, which has had a formal evaluation process for more than a decade, has a list of 10 “disapproved” medical schools, including St. Matthew’s University on Grand Cayman, Spartan Health Sciences University on St. Lucia and University of Health Sciences Antigua in St. John’s.
California also has a list of more than 300 “recognized” medical schools in countries worldwide whose applicants will be considered for a medical license there.
Arkansas’ initial disapproved list will include only medical schools in the Caribbean because the state gets a lot of applications from graduates of schools there, said Bill Trice, board attorney. Schools from other countries may be added later.
“The information we’re gathering now is focused on our applicant pool,” Trice said.
Any Caribbean school that isn’t recognized by California, or that is on that state’s disapproved list, will be on Arkansas’ list. A school may also be included on Arkansas’ list if it is disapproved by medical boards in at least two other states.
Arkansas also won’t consider licensing applicants from medical schools whose curriculum is Internet-based or involves distance learning.
The board plans to present the list to the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences by July 1 so it can be considered as faculty members review applicants for medical residency programs, said Peggy Cryer, the state board’s executive secretary.
In the future, the state board will publish a list by June 15 each year. Schools can be removed from the list if they become approved in California or in at least two other states.
UAMS officials estimate about 20 percent of its current 590 residents statewide are graduates of foreign medical schools.
On Thursday, the board voted to allow exceptions for people already enrolled in a UAMS residency program as of Aug. 1. Those doctors will be considered for a medical license in Arkansas even if their medical school ends up on the disapproved list if they meet other board requirements.
Any other current or future applicants from disapprovedschools won’t be considered for a medical license in Arkansas, according to Friday’s vote.
All foreign medical school graduates must show they have served three years as an intern or resident in an accredited postgraduate medical program in the United States or have completed one year as an intern or resident in an accredited postgraduate medical program in the United States and be enrolled in an accredited postgraduate program in Arkansas.
Board member Dr. Omar T. Atiq said he hopes Arkansas will consider adding non-Caribbean schools to its disapproved list, to distinguish between reputable and disreputable schools in other countries. He wants to ensure applicants from throughout the world are held to the samestandards.
“There are schools elsewhere in the world that we know nothing about,” he said. “And there are some pretty darn useless schools out there.”
This article was published Saturday, June 7, 2008. Front Section, Pages 1, 5 on 06/07/2008

[azulpanther]

well it does say that if a school is approved in 2 other states that it would be removed from the disapproved list.

[azulpanther]

well it does say that if a school is approved in 2 other states that it would remove the school from its disapproved list.

aint smu approved in florida and NY. The smu administration should have seen this coming. Hopefully they have a good plan in place to convince arkansas that we are indeed a very legit school.

[nevisbutterfly]

The writer messed up and was not clear on that. By reading the entire article and following the boards thoughts, it meant to say something different. I think it meant to say if the school is disapproved in two states and not on the list then they will not grant a license. I just know they targeted the Carib schools in the article.

[nevisbutterfly]

I sent a package to the board trying to convince all of them of that.

Read the entire article. I know SMU is ON the list of dissaproved. MUA is not on the approved list or unapproved list. There is no difference here because if we are NOT of the list and dissaproved in two other states then we are unable to get a license too.

The family medicine residencies in AR will suffer.

[smu79]

The smu administration should have seen this coming. .

lol....

Mirror mirror on the wall tell me who/what/where/why states are going to disapprove us…
Better yet, smu should ask their crystal ball so that can be better prepare…after all, they see things coming!

[phdmd]

Nevisbutterfly what are we Razorbacks to do practice in another state? Unbelievable that the ASMB just followed the California list without researching the individual schools themselves. It was a sad day when that article was published. As you know, it will be extremely difficult to turn this thing around.

[azulpanther]

lol....

Mirror mirror on the wall tell me who/what/where/why states are going to disapprove us…
Better yet, smu should ask their crystal ball so that can be better prepare…after all, they see things coming!


its called being prepared. I'm sure you were prepared for your steps and other exams. When you 1st opened that booklet i'm sure your eyes didnt jump out of your head.

SMU should have know that the medical board of arkansas were meeting about the possibility of adopting the cali list.

[guitarheroMD2B]

http://www.valuemd.com/medical-university-americas-mua-nevis/158106-arkansas-adopts-ca-list-how-sad.html

Link to MUA thread.


this sets a HORRIBLE precident for SMU...slowly states seem to be favoring the Cali list.

[shdc1000]

It seems unfair to just adopt the Cali list and cite the fact they don't have the resources to come up with their own list. They should just do a case by case basis. The way the article portrays schools like SMU is so negative that one thinks that docs from there will actually jeopardize the public's safety.

So how can SMU get off the Cali disapproval list? Are they even trying to?

[Rookie]

This could be a really bad sign. What if all states decided to adopt the Calif. list??? Do you think this could happen?
How would MUA be prepared to handle this? Could they quickly be Calif. approved?
I think this is a serious issue, if more states adopt the Calif. list then MUA graduates will be left out in the cold...
I am now reconsidering any school that is not on the Calif. list.

[MDTOB]

I believe that more states, unfortunately, will gradually do what Arkansas has done in this case. They will progressively adopt the Cali list which will undoubtedly have an enormous negative impact on SMU and future recruitment!

Good luck :)

[BBD]

The weeding out of the Caribbean schools begins. This is not really a surprise that more states are taking on the California list, it's been mentioned in previous threads, that I recently looked up. The importance of getting California approval may take on new importance. IMO, the lack of regulation and the ease of starting new schools and the abundance of them recently has made this kind of inevitable. IMO, a school should be given a minimal time, say 10years from staring to apply and get approved by CA and then if not they should go on the dissaproved list till they meet the standard. Right now there is little incentive to get CA approval or even strive for it as many schools seem content on being mediocre, as long as they make money.

[doc2be1day]

I think it's it's important to note there is a difference between unapproved and disapproved. Schools like SMU have been disapproved because they applied for approval and were rejected. MUA is unapproved because it has never applied for approval. I'm not sure how this really affects licensure yet, but I think MUA is still in a good position because it is waiting to make sure it can get approval rather than risk disapproval. Given the great matches we are getting I'm optimistic that MUA will be able to get approval befofre too long. But I understand that if some one is able to get into a California approved Caribbean med school they are better chance of getting licensure where ever they want -- if they do well on the boards!!! (Otherwise it don't matter where they graduated from.)

[Rookie]

Thank you for the information.

[Troy314]

All states have requirements that determine whether a medical graduate can be placed for clerkship or residency. Some states (notably California and New York) require accreditation for this to happen. You would do well to make sure that your training will allow you to practice in the state where you wish to work. Some of the factors may be out of your control, others (such as first time USMLE passing) can be controlled.

MUA is actively working toward California accreditation, and has been steadily taking steps to attain it. (Can anyone give you date? No. MUA is ahead of schedule on obtaining accreditations for its age, but estimates are not possible). Take a look at the MUA.edu website for information of what we've done over the past few years. MUA has an active administration that steadily works at improving the school and educational process; we're not perfect, but we're actively moving and growing.

Will Arkansas just adopt the California list whole hog or use it as a guide? No one knows. Will they focus on a list of "disapproved" schools based on the California guidelines? No one knows (but that would make more sense).

MUA is approved by New York and is NOT on the "DISAPPROVED" list for California.

[got milk?]

hurray.

soon we will get to practice in the United States of NY.


who cares about hicksville arkansas anyway.

i sound like a broken record, but i hope smu isn't taking any shortcuts, and is hiring competent teachers

[got milk?]

state board not having enough money to do a site evaluation?

that's B S.

all you need is for the school to have all expense paid for the site eval team to come to an island.

surely it doesn't cost that much.

[AUCMD2006]

state board not having enough money to do a site evaluation?

that's B S.

all you need is for the school to have all expense paid for the site eval team to come to an island.

surely it doesn't cost that much.


fisrt off they are state employees meaning even if the salaries paid aren't much the overall cost is a ton per employee because of the benefits package each state employee gets, add office space supplies, etc and you also have to figure that while its not really that expensive to fly a team of 2-4 people out there for a week and fine have the school pay for it..where does the funding come for the other 51 weeks of the year that you need to employ these people?

there are only 30 med schools or so in the carib and i would say that 90% of them are so pis poor that they probably couldn't even afford the paying the team for a week. do you think st martinus has 1-3 million laying around to do the things needed to improve the school and another 20 or 30 grand laying around to fly these people in specially knowing there is no guarantee of approval and a denial is the first nail on the coffin?

There really isn't that much of a market for cali approval outside of the caribbean because foreign countries don't have that many american med students

there is no way most states can afford to pay a team to evaulate each school...heck look at the pacific north west..there is one state med school shared by four states! you think they will have the cash to fund a department to do this year in and year out forever? no way

"This could be a really bad sign. What if all states decided to adopt the Calif. list??? Do you think this could happen?
How would MUA be prepared to handle this? Could they quickly be Calif. approved?
I think this is a serious issue, if more states adopt the Calif. list then MUA graduates will be left out in the cold...
I am now reconsidering any school that is not on the Calif. list"



also it allways amazes me when students don't know that this has been brewing for a long time. the FSMB passed a directive in 2003-2004 that recommended that all states start their own approval process or that they use a list from another state and even went on to say that the cali list is the most complete and thourough. when that happened people said it would never catch on...some of said it would but slowly and it has been ongoing slowly but surely

this thing coupled with the expansions at many US med schools, the opening of new allopath and osteopath schools will continue to lessen the states we as foreign grads can work in. eventually it may affect the viability of a school if enough states adopt this. best thing any of you can do right now is get through the program on time and set up your credentials through FCVS as soon as humanly possible to ensure that even if a school sinks you will have access to your transcripts and credentials

[schoup]

state board not having enough money to do a site evaluation?

that's B S.

all you need is for the school to have all expense paid for the site eval team to come to an island.

surely it doesn't cost that much.

Just think if every state sent a team.

Do you really think schools would want to pay for 51 teams(50 states + DC) to come down and visit? Highly unlikely.

Also, do you think each state would want to or have time to send a team to all 25 Caribbean schools? Unlikely.

[AUCMD2006]

hurray.

soon we will get to practice in the United States of NY.


who cares about hicksville arkansas anyway.

i sound like a broken record, but i hope smu isn't taking any shortcuts, and is hiring competent teachers


yep so far its been who cares about california, who cares about tennesee, who cares about kansas, who cares about oregon, who cares about new mexico, who cares about vermont, who cares about texas, who cares about indiana... when will students start caring enough to demand a decent school like smu hurry its act up and re apply! how about when the list of places starts heading towards double digits?

[k_tanaka]

MUA is actively working toward California accreditation, and has been steadily taking steps to attain it. (Can anyone give you date? No. MUA is ahead of schedule on obtaining accreditations for its age, but estimates are not possible). Take a look at the MUA.edu website for information of what we've done over the past few years. MUA has an active administration that steadily works at improving the school and educational process; we're not perfect, but we're actively moving and growing.

Will Arkansas just adopt the California list whole hog or use it as a guide? No one knows. Will they focus on a list of "disapproved" schools based on the California guidelines? No one knows (but that would make more sense).

MUA is approved by New York and is NOT on the "DISAPPROVED" list for California.

Troy, indeed MUA has taken strides over the past several years, I have seen it and most of us are pleased. However, a lingering concern is.....states are slowly adopting the CA list, Arkansas being one. Several of our graduates have landed into iniversity sponsored residency programs there. With them and other states slowly getting into the same foray, the lingering concern is regarding dwindling residency spots made available for upcoming graduates of the school if MUA will not take a much more proactive stance than present proactive stance they are taking.

As it stands New York is the only state that we have a clear cut, on paper approval. An article by the New York times I quoted earlier noted Medicaid federal funding cuts which will mostly impact medical training programs. Again dwindling residency spots.

[butterflymd]

AUCMED I am with you on what you are saying. I don't think that the school should be taking it lightly at all. They should be very proactive in trying to clear up all these states taking on the Cali list as the word of god. This is unbelievable and it will eventually lead to new students not wanting to take the chance on SMU. How many states will follow. This is scary.

[Ward21]

since mua and saba are sister schools. why not merge? and solve all of our licensure worries and heart aches with cali and the rest ot states? this would be very benefical and encouraging for current and prospective students and very attractive to so many future students who are so wary and hesitant about mua. is there a down side? or is this just not possible?

[MadameMedecin]

So I was recently accepted to SMU for Fall 2008, and as much as I hate going on these forums...I'm forced to get info from ValueMD since SMU's website is a waste of time.

All this Cali talk is making me really nervous...so I want to hear from current SMU students who are matriculating on Grand Cayman, and who are completing their rotations.

After going to the CA state medical board website and reading the report on SMU...it seems as though CA had a problem with the fact that;

1. the faculty had only been teaching at SMU for a very short period of time and they had no credentials (ie; publications or research).

2. At the time, the CI campus and Maine campus were not communicating very well

3. At the time, there was a very limited record of SMU graduates... only 2 were known to have completed their residency (thats pretty scary...)

5. Inadequate clinical clerkships, and too little administration involvement in the organizing of these clerkships

At the end of the report, the site evaluator seem to say that SMU was on the right path to becoming a great institution, but was still going through growing pains....

So current SMU students...in your opinion has SMU improved significantly enough in these problem areas to earn Cali approval in the near future?

Is there a significant alumni presence? Are SMU alumni doing well....are they practicing....does anyone know?:confused:

[WSUCougar]

So I was recently accepted to SMU for Fall 2008, and as much as I hate going on these forums...I'm forced to get info from ValueMD since SMU's website is a waste of time.

All this Cali talk is making me really nervous...so I want to hear from current SMU students who are matriculating on Grand Cayman, and who are completing their rotations.

After going to the CA state medical board website and reading the report on SMU...it seems as though CA had a problem with the fact that;

1. the faculty had only been teaching at SMU for a very short period of time and they had no credentials (ie; publications or research).

Our faculty has gotten a lot better from how I hear it was in the past. I think that SMU has pretty much weeded out the Professors that shouldn't be here, and have replaced them with highly qualified MD's to teach us. I've been more than happy with the quality of teaching from the Basic Science Professors.

As far as publications go, I haven't researched it one bit.... but I do know that Dr. G (anatomy/embryo), and Dr. V have had some research published.

2. At the time, the CI campus and Maine campus were not communicating very well

Now, there's just the CI campus. So that solves that.

3. At the time, there was a very limited record of SMU graduates... only 2 were known to have completed their residency (thats pretty scary...)

SMU has had close to 200 students graduate and obtain residency spots in the last 2 years combined.


SMU is a really good school, especially when compared to some of the other Carib schools. I just think that the Administration had no idea what they were getting into when they applied for California. Because, they applied wayyyyy to early and the Hurricane hitting SMU when it did sure didn't help anything out either.

Another key item to bring up, is the fact that California stated that they didn't like how SMU doesn't "own" any of their Basic Science buildings. Because..... as of right now, SMU still rents these buildings.

[golfman]

The way it has been explained to me is if Saba did that they would have to reapply for Cali approval. I go to Saba and I asked a similar question to admin a few semesters ago. If it were possible, I am sure it would have been done long ago. Hope this helps.

[stephew]

one thread per topic please. threads merged.

[MadameMedecin]

The way it has been explained to me is if Saba did that they would have to reapply for Cali approval. I go to Saba and I asked a similar question to admin a few semesters ago. If it were possible, I am sure it would have been done long ago. Hope this helps.

SABA already has Cali approval, but for some reason I was told by SMU admin that because SMU just bought MUA and SABA, they are now in a better position to obtain Cali approval....I don't see the connection however. I thought all 3 were owned by the same company Equinox. Is this true? Does SMU own SABA and MUA? Because if so, it doesn't seem right that SMU would not have Cali approval by now.

[smuInsideOut]

SABA already has Cali approval, but for some reason I was told by SMU admin that because SMU just bought MUA and SABA, they are now in a better position to obtain Cali approval....I don't see the connection however. I thought all 3 were owned by the same company Equinox. Is this true? Does SMU own SABA and MUA? Because if so, it doesn't seem right that SMU would not have Cali approval by now.



SMU does not own SABA and MUA. All three schools are owned by the investment company Equinox Capitol.

Equinox Capital, Inc. (http://www.equinox-capital.com)

[got milk?]

yep so far its been who cares about california, who cares about tennesee, who cares about kansas, who cares about oregon, who cares about new mexico, who cares about vermont, who cares about texas, who cares about indiana... when will students start caring enough to demand a decent school like smu hurry its act up and re apply! how about when the list of places starts heading towards double digits?


yeah. it is like that. who cares about xxxxxx...

it's only california that's the roadblock.

so that's all the school should care about.

get the damn name off the CA list, and we're gold.

[ksritter]

Thanks for posting this article. Please let us Razorbacks know if there are any changes in this policy!

Katherine from Bentonville (Bella Vista) ~ WOOO PIG SOOIE! Long live the Tusk!

[nevisbutterfly]

I called the board to confirm that if we are on the unapproved list for CA then you cannot get a license. Also, if you do not appear on the list like MUA then you still cannot get a license.

This is really going to not only hurt me but so many other qualified MUA and SMU graduates that would like to have gone to residency programs and got a license to practice in the state.

This will hurt Jonesboro, Eldorado, Pine Bluff and Texarkanna for sure.

I still cannot believe this has happened in this backwoods state that has only one medical school and hurting for family doctors.

After a person goes through 3 years plus of residency in a ACGME approved program and passes the board anyone regardless of where they went to medical school should get a license.

I think MUA and SMU are great schools. We should band together and not pit against each other on the forum. Even if they put my school on the list (MUA) I still cannot practice because I graduated after the year of approval.

If I had the money and time I would file a lawsuit against the medical board of Arkansas. For it was an IMG Paki dude that was behind all of this on the board. Not knocking the Paki's because I have several that are really good friends and it is not their fault - one of them is an anesthesia resident in AR. But the only IMG on the board was pushing for the anti-Carb school thing. This man should know that we have many foreign people graduating from Carib schools - most from Canada are Indian and Paki that would like to secure a residency in AR too.

Well MS, AL, LA, GA, NC, SC, FL are still states that we can contribute too. I am just soooooooooo sad they took my dream away after spending $175,000 and 7 years. This means I will never be able to spend time with my mother who is 75 or my son and grandaughter.

Screws to you AR I don't claim the state as my home state anymore and will be removing the Razorback from my posting. My current pic on my postings represent what I think of how the Medical Board Evolved.

[nevisbutterfly]

since mua and saba are sister schools. why not merge? and solve all of our licensure worries and heart aches with cali and the rest ot states? this would be very benefical and encouraging for current and prospective students and very attractive to so many future students who are so wary and hesitant about mua. is there a down side? or is this just not possible?


First, if MUA or SMU gets CA approval then only the people that completed coursework after the approval will be on the CA list.

Second, we cannot merge. The WHO requires that you are in the country of orgin in which the WHO approved the school. This happened to St. Christopher and you know that whole horrible story by now.

[Scott1981]

sorry to hear about your situation. it seems like it would have been more fair to make the disapproval from this date forward so it wouldnt have hurt grads in residency already.

[nevisbutterfly]

sorry to hear about your situation. it seems like it would have been more fair to make the disapproval from this date forward so it wouldnt have hurt grads in residency already.


It won't hurt those already in a residency in Arkansas or starting one this year. It only hurts those of us that wanted to return to Arkansas and in a residency in another state. They will grandfather all those that did a residency, in residency or starting a residency in AR.

[Scott1981]

It won't hurt those already in a residency in Arkansas or starting one this year. It only hurts those of us that wanted to return to Arkansas and in a residency in another state. They will grandfather all those that did a residency, in residency or starting a residency in AR.

they should grandfather all residents regardless if its in ark or not. they should have made the disapproval from this date forward for graduates. if you graduated before this date, then you should be ok. that would have seemed much more fair. it just doesnt seem right the way they did it.

[Genossa maximillian]

Unfortunately this seems to be one of those lessons lived, lessons learned eye opener kind of thing. I have observed how this CA list has been developing for the last 8 years or so, and I am very honest to say I never imagined it's use would become so widespread and I am under the impression that it will get worse, I was naive in that aspect, I conceded that. More states will add it, with their own semantics in their own rules, just to save a little bit of face.

The lesson, and I do not pretend to drop a bucket of cold water on anyone in these forums, stick to what works, sitck to what has a proven track record of relative success if you are doing the Caribbean route. That is, the 4 schools that have the CA approval. We have seen how other states have been incorporating it, we have seen how the FSMB has recommended following that same kind of guidelines and the states are listening and slowly but surely incorporating it and we have seen how in the absence of clear grandfathering rules, people attending non-CA approved schools might get screwed.

I thought I would never say the aforementioned, because personally I beleive that as long as you prove to pass the board exams within a reasonable amount of attempts and you successfully complete a 3 - 4 year residence program and get board certified, you have proved to know your material. Of course, the tendency of medical boards is to follow the opposite logic, and that is their prerrogative.

State medical boards are no fools , they are alarmed about the seemingly endless amount of medical school shops popping up in the Caribbean faster than Starbucks outlets nearby a new subdivision. We can't blame them for that, after all they also know these schools are cash cows, and many if not most of them are into it for a good rea$on, or rea$on$. They want to put a stop to it and this is one way. It will get worse I predict and we will see how evetually medical education will go back to what used to be...if you can't get into a US or Canadian program and go Caribbean then the BIG 4 will do. Most of the people I know used to do this...reputable European schools, Australia, Israel,Mexico, etc. The Caribbean route was a novel and risky route when it flourished in the late 1970's and 1980's. It paid off the the serious players. Now is out of control.

Good luck to all.

g-max

[StodeMD]

As far as I'm concerned, if I have 5 states that I can get licenced in, I can probably find somewhere in 1 of those states where I'd be happy to live. I consider that a Success.

I didn't go into this expecting full approval and recognition anywhere in the U.S.

[AUCMD2006]

As far as I'm concerned, if I have 5 states that I can get licenced in, I can probably find somewhere in 1 of those states where I'd be happy to live. I consider that a Success.

I didn't go into this expecting full approval and recognition anywhere in the U.S.


thats the point..it is slowly working its way down to were you will probably only have 5 or 6 states that are left..that is when people that think like this will care? the "who cares" state list is growing. how do you know it will not eventually get to the point of not renewing licenses of docs already practicing? you never know how far these these things can go.

So continue to consider mediocrity and settling for something that is good enough as a success....yes it is a great success..having burocrats dictate where and how you practice, where and how you live..oh yea that is my defenition of success.

[StodeMD]

Well, I appreciate your idealism, it's admirable. There's tons of ways I could respond to your comments, but the simplest one is a question...

"If you wanted acceptance in all 50 states, why didn't you go to a U.S. medical school?"

State governments have good reason to be more suspicious, critical, and mandating of Caribbean schools, for obvious reasons.

And as much as I may not like political barriers, I know I dont' have control over that, to be very practical. I didnt' sign up to be a politician.

Frankly and honestly, I could not get into U.S. medical schools, so while I dont' feel that 5 states is at all acceptable for reputable offshore schools, I feel fortunate to be given the opportunity to practice as an MD, anywhere. And my opinion, I dont believe it's ever going that low, not for my school, which is a reputable school. Basically, Caribbean schools get what they deserve, most often. It's not as though they are being treated grossely unfairly.

[AUCMD2006]

Well, I appreciate your idealism, it's admirable. There's tons of ways I could respond to your comments, but the simplest one is a question...

"If you wanted acceptance in all 50 states, why didn't you go to a U.S. medical school?"

State governments have good reason to be more suspicious, critical, and mandating of Caribbean schools, for obvious reasons.

And as much as I may not like political barriers, I know I dont' have control over that, to be very practical. I didnt' sign up to be a politician.

Frankly and honestly, I could not get into U.S. medical schools, so while I dont' feel that 5 states is at all acceptable for reputable offshore schools, I feel fortunate to be given the opportunity to practice as an MD, anywhere. And my opinion, I dont believe it's ever going that low, not for my school, which is a reputable school. Basically, Caribbean schools get what they deserve, most often. It's not as though they are being treated grossely unfairly.

i didn't get in so i took the next best thing..a school with all the approvals possible and graduates already working in the 50 states which will bolster any claim i make to a medical board for a license.

do you have any idea about the lifestyle differences by state....forget about the humanistic i wanna help people side of things...you will do that anywhere regardless of the paycheck but you aren't working for a company..you are your own pension and eventually we all may want to retire so why not get paid as much as you can...right now if i were to start working in the northeast/midwest the starting salary is 140-170k for me...move south a little bit and that jumps to 260k-320k..move that to texas and nevada and i have gotten offers from head hunters for $500k base salary plus performace bonuses all for the same job....now i can help people in michigan for 160K or i can help poeple in texas for 300-500k..where to go where to go?

gotta make the best of things and is it really idealistic to wanna work where i want?" i think it is the least a school can provide to be ideal the school would have to provide you with aresidency, a job after

[Genossa maximillian]

You can live extremely well in Texas for that salary you mentioned.


i didn't get in so i took the next best thing..a school with all the approvals possible and graduates already working in the



50 states which will bolster any claim i make to a medical board for a license.

do you have any idea about the lifestyle differences by state....forget about the humanistic i wanna help people side of things...you will do that anywhere regardless of the paycheck but you aren't working for a company..you are your own pension and eventually we all may want to retire so why not get paid as much as you can...right now if i were to start working in the northeast/midwest the starting salary is 140-170k for me...move south a little bit and that jumps to 260k-320k..move that to texas and nevada and i have gotten offers from head hunters for $500k base salary plus performace bonuses all for the same job....now i can help people in michigan for 160K or i can help poeple in texas for 300-500k..where to go where to go?

gotta make the best of things and is it really idealistic to wanna work where i want?" i think it is the least a school can provide to be ideal the school would have to provide you with aresidency, a job after

[got milk?]

since they can't revoke a license you already have (unless for malpractice or criminal record), a workaround to the ever growing list of licensing denials is to spend a few thousand $$$ up front and get all the state licenses you can, and hold on to them. You've just grandfathered yourself in.
it only costs $100 to renew them each year.