Question regarding unmatched residencies

[Mike77]

I was looking at the 2008 results and was very confused. I was expecting some unmatched positions in family, a couple in pediatrics and maybe psychiatry, etc. I noticed that there were some powerfuly competitive residencies that had unmatched positions... Am I missing something here. I mean look at neurosurgeory-- not all the positions were filled?! Can someone fill me in, without flaming me. I'm sure it's something basic :).

[KingMo]

I have ZERO credentials in answering this question, and am far from having any. But one speculation I've heard is that some programs, when they don't get their top picks, would rather have a position go unfilled than give it to the next person down the line (ie: a not so competitive applicant...For fear of lowering the standards of that program). Or something along those lines...you get what I'm trying to say?

Surely there are other explanations as well. Although this is one of those mysteries that never gets a real and definitive answer. Thus, I expect this thread to turn into a hoopla, that I want no part of, very soon.

[Mike77]

I have ZERO credentials in answering this question, and am far from having any. But one speculation I've heard is that some programs, when they don't get their top picks, would rather have a position go unfilled than give it to the next person down the line (ie: a not so competitive applicant...For fear of lowering the standards of that program). Or something along those lines...you get what I'm trying to say?

Surely there are other explanations as well. Although this is one of those mysteries that never gets a real and definitive answer. Thus, I expect this thread to turn into a hoopla, that I want no part of, very soon.

that was my non-educated guess as well. Any other ideas?

[Skipper]

Some competitive programs, only want the best of the best....they may interview 50 people, but will only rank their top 5 for their 3 positions....

with ranking only their top 5 there is a possibilty that none or a couple of the top 5 will rank them high enough to match there, so it results in a no match in one or more of their positions

some PD programs, like to brag about how they can fill their program with only ranking 5 people for 3 positions, or ranking 15 people for 12 positions, and so forth.....

however, with that done there is a risk that one of the positions will not fill

skipper

[Mike77]

Some competitive programs, only want the best of the best....they may interview 50 people, but will only rank their top 5 for their 3 positions....

with ranking only their top 5 there is a possibilty that none or a couple of the top 5 will rank them high enough to match there, so it results in a no match in one or more of their positions

some PD programs, like to brag about how they can fill their program with only ranking 5 people for 3 positions, or ranking 15 people for 12 positions, and so forth.....

however, with that done there is a risk that one of the positions will not fill

skipper

I see, great response! What does PD mean btw?

[NYladoo]

I see, great response! What does PD mean btw?

Program Director.

[camkiss]

The above posts are correct. In addition, when a program takes an applicant outside the Match (FMGs and DOs), that spot is listed as unmatched, even though it is filled. Some programs will also hold open spots for residents who want to swap specialties. This is not uncommon in anesthesia residencies where every year a handful of surgery residents come crawling in begging to do anesthesiology!

[js_paramedic_1979]

Funny... I was going to add the last idea on, but camkiss beat me to it.. I hope I'm not one of the "crawling in begging" residents next year!!

[rokshana]

when a program takes an applicant outside the Match (FMGs and DOs), that spot is listed as unmatched, even though it is filled!

actually this is not true. the programs have to tell nrmp how many positions they are submitting to the match by the end of jan., so prematch offers generally can be offered up to that time. After the programs report their quota, they then cannot offer the spot as a prematch- they are contractually bound to have those spots go to the nrmp- so when a spot is unfilled in the match, it is truly an unfilled position (however they tend to go fast on scramble day).

[Mike77]

actually this is not true. the programs have to tell nrmp how many positions they are submitting to the match by the end of jan., so prematch offers generally can be offered up to that time. After the programs report their quota, they then cannot offer the spot as a prematch- they are contractually bound to have those spots go to the nrmp- so when a spot is unfilled in the match, it is truly an unfilled position (however they tend to go fast on scramble day).




wait wait wait! Those stat's didn't include the scramble?!

[camkiss]

Rokshana- technically you are correct. However, consider this scenario that gets played out every year. A program has both advanced and categorical spots. For the sake of this scenario, they have 10 advanced spots and 3 categorical spots. The program will show NRMP 3 spots for categorical, and yet they will not rank anyone for them as they have 3 people agreeing to the spots already. The Match data shows three spots not filled and yet they also are not available for scramble. I know several programs in several different specialties who have done this. It is one of the many "shady" aspects of the Match.

Mike77- the Match results you see do not include the scramble. That is what people who do not match get emailed to them so they know who to call to get a scramble spot.

[rokshana]

Rokshana- technically you are correct. However, consider this scenario that gets played out every year. A program has both advanced and categorical spots. For the sake of this scenario, they have 10 advanced spots and 3 categorical spots. The program will show NRMP 3 spots for categorical, and yet they will not rank anyone for them as they have 3 people agreeing to the spots already. The Match data shows three spots not filled and yet they also are not available for scramble. I know several programs in several different specialties who have done this. It is one of the many "shady" aspects of the Match.

i'm sure there are shady aspects to the match- no doubt!!

but if they HAVE 3 people why wouldn't the program just rank those 3 people? I remember when a friend was going through the AUA match a few years ago, there was a school that he ranked #2, but knew he wouldn't get it, because the 2 spots the school hd were pretty much going to 2 people from the progrm's own med school, but i assumed that the school was just going to rank those 2 people 1 and 2.

[camkiss]

Because the 3 people they have lined up are non-traditionals (i.e. already did a year of internship in another field, and are willing to repeat a year, FMGs, DOs). It allows the program to cherry pick who they are getting versus relying on the computer to spit out a person. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. If the FMG or DO came along after the program submitted their numbers to NRMP, then they are not allowed to sign them pre-match, but will simply not rank people for those spots.