I am screwed, Need Help and Advice!

[Amyloidosis]

As I checked my Step 2 CK scores it came as a big shock to me as I scrolled down the PDF file to find out that I Failed by a slight margin. i couldn't believe it....my heart was racing!! Now I am so depressed and don't know what to do. I am about to apply in Sept for 2009 match and now this news has me feeling like I have shot myself in the foot.....and now feeling depressed and can't seem to get out of it.

I was wondering if anyone can help me out by giving me some good advice regarding what should I do now? My previous plan was to pass CK and CS right before applying for the match hoping to enhance my application for IM. I had mid 80 on my step 1 and never thought something like this would happen to me...but it looks like it DID happen. I am so worried now...instead of enhancing my application for residency now I've decreased my chances. I think the major reason for me to fail might have been that i haven't done a lot of USMLEWORLD questions before the exam and ididn't take any NBME tests to see where I stood and instead mostly focused on the concepts. So I have a few questions for you guys:

1) Can I withhold my step 2 CK score before applying and just apply with Step 1 score? Some ppl were telling me I can't do that ( manual transmission vs automatic transmission) because I already have the fail on step 2 before Sept so it'll appear on the usmle transcipt no matter what...is it true? It only applies if I take the Step 2 after I apply thru ERAS?

2) Should i retake it before Sept and hope to pass? and maybe that would increase my chance of getting a few more community program interviews for IM?

3)I had a mid 80 score on Step 1 and a Fail on step 2 CK...what is the likelyhood of me getting some interviews from community programs for IM if I apply just like this with a pass on step 1 and fail on step 2 and stating that I m scheduled to retake step 2....is there any chance of me getting a few interviews from the community programs even tho I failed step 2?

4)What do you think I should do...take step 2 before Sept and hope to pass or take it later after Sept?

5)Any other advice you can give me? How should I approach this problem and the necessary steps that i should take?

I hope you guys can help me out on this. Thanks in advance. And please pray for me that I get over this obstacle.

Thanks and God Bless to all.

[JMIND]

As I checked my Step 2 CK scores it came as a big shock to me as I scrolled down the PDF file to find out that I Failed by a slight margin. i couldn't believe it....my heart was racing!! Now I am so depressed and don't know what to do. I am about to apply in Sept for 2009 match and now this news has me feeling like I have shot myself in the foot.....and now feeling depressed and can't seem to get out of it.

I was wondering if anyone can help me out by giving me some good advice regarding what should I do now? My previous plan was to pass CK and CS right before applying for the match hoping to enhance my application for IM. I had mid 80 on my step 1 and never thought something like this would happen to me...but it looks like it DID happen. I am so worried now...instead of enhancing my application for residency now I've decreased my chances. I think the major reason for me to fail might have been that i haven't done a lot of USMLEWORLD questions before the exam and ididn't take any NBME tests to see where I stood and instead mostly focused on the concepts. So I have a few questions for you guys:

1) Can I withhold my step 2 CK score before applying and just apply with Step 1 score? Some ppl were telling me I can't do that ( manual transmission vs automatic transmission) because I already have the fail on step 2 before Sept so it'll appear on the usmle transcipt no matter what...is it true? It only applies if I take the Step 2 after I apply thru ERAS?

2) Should i retake it before Sept and hope to pass? and maybe that would increase my chance of getting a few more community program interviews for IM?

3)I had a mid 80 score on Step 1 and a Fail on step 2 CK...what is the likelyhood of me getting some interviews from community programs for IM if I apply just like this with a pass on step 1 and fail on step 2 and stating that I m scheduled to retake step 2....is there any chance of me getting a few interviews from the community programs even tho I failed step 2?

4)What do you think I should do...take step 2 before Sept and hope to pass or take it later after Sept?

5)Any other advice you can give me? How should I approach this problem and the necessary steps that i should take?

I hope you guys can help me out on this. Thanks in advance. And please pray for me that I get over this obstacle.

Thanks and God Bless to all.

Just a note to let you know you are in my prayers. I don't have experience in your situation so I can't give you advice others can except encouragement. You will get through this and be stronger because of it.
Good luck!

[Skipper]

As I checked my Step 2 CK scores it came as a big shock to me as I scrolled down the PDF file to find out that I Failed by a slight margin. i couldn't believe it....my heart was racing!! Now I am so depressed and don't know what to do. I am about to apply in Sept for 2009 match and now this news has me feeling like I have shot myself in the foot.....and now feeling depressed and can't seem to get out of it.

I was wondering if anyone can help me out by giving me some good advice regarding what should I do now? My previous plan was to pass CK and CS right before applying for the match hoping to enhance my application for IM. I had mid 80 on my step 1 and never thought something like this would happen to me...but it looks like it DID happen. I am so worried now...instead of enhancing my application for residency now I've decreased my chances. I think the major reason for me to fail might have been that i haven't done a lot of USMLEWORLD questions before the exam and ididn't take any NBME tests to see where I stood and instead mostly focused on the concepts. So I have a few questions for you guys:

1) Can I withhold my step 2 CK score before applying and just apply with Step 1 score? Some ppl were telling me I can't do that ( manual transmission vs automatic transmission) because I already have the fail on step 2 before Sept so it'll appear on the usmle transcipt no matter what...is it true? It only applies if I take the Step 2 after I apply thru ERAS?---No you cannot, since you already have your results it will be on your transcripts. That is my understanding.

2) Should i retake it before Sept and hope to pass? and maybe that would increase my chance of getting a few more community program interviews for IM?--You should start considering applying to community based FP, a fail on Step 2 will hurt your chances. I would not limit yourself to just IM, since your app wont be that great with a fail on step 2 and an average step 1.

3)I had a mid 80 score on Step 1 and a Fail on step 2 CK...what is the likelyhood of me getting some interviews from community programs for IM if I apply just like this with a pass on step 1 and fail on step 2 and stating that I m scheduled to retake step 2....is there any chance of me getting a few interviews from the community programs even tho I failed step 2?--if you really kill step 2, high 90's then you may get some community based IM programs. just as I stated above, I would consider FP

4)What do you think I should do...take step 2 before Sept and hope to pass or take it later after Sept?--I would take it when you are prepared to score well. Taking it and barely passing will hurt your chances greatly!

5)Any other advice you can give me? How should I approach this problem and the necessary steps that i should take?....Try to do really good on Step 2.
skipper
I hope you guys can help me out on this. Thanks in advance. And please pray for me that I get over this obstacle.

Thanks and God Bless to all.

those are just my opinions.

skipper

[NYladoo]

Skipper, you seem so eager to advise people to look into FP. IM is not as competitive as you think it is. The OP can still match or pre-match into a position for IM, as long as he/she scores well on STEP 2.

[rokshana]

As I checked my Step 2 CK scores it came as a big shock to me as I scrolled down the PDF file to find out that I Failed by a slight margin. i couldn't believe it....my heart was racing!! Now I am so depressed and don't know what to do.

1st breath and deal with the feeling....you need to get over this feeling before you can put your head into retaking this exam. I'm not saying you will be able to do that in a couple of days, but let yourself deal with it 1st.

I think the major reason for me to fail might have been that i haven't done a lot of USMLEWORLD questions before the exam and ididn't take any NBME tests to see where I stood and instead mostly focused on the concepts.

well its good that you have an idea of what you did wrong. I am a firm believer in the nbmes for feedback and now it will be even more important for you, since you will want to take this exam again when you KNOW you are in passing range (and i don't mean you score 185-190 on the nbme, you need to be in the 200+ on an nbme to take it again).

1) Can I withhold my step 2 CK score before applying and just apply with Step 1 score?
no you cannot- its all or nothing..whatever is on your USMLE transcript the day you release will be reported. Since your CK will already be there come sept 1st, it will be reported. If you were to release your transcript with CK not yet reported and select manual update, then you would have to select again to send a transcript when the transcript is updated.

2) Should i retake it before Sept and hope to pass? and maybe that would increase my chance of getting a few more community program interviews for IM?

no you should take the exam when you are very comfortable you will pass the exam. Failing once, well bad, but not insurmountable..fail twice? ad you will severely reduce your chances---2x failed shows a trend....
if you can take it before sept great..buttake it ONLY if you re comfortable knowing you WILL pass, not hope...

3)I had a mid 80 score on Step 1 and a Fail on step 2 CK...what is the likelyhood of me getting some interviews from community programs for IM if I apply just like this with a pass on step 1 and fail on step 2 and stating that I m scheduled to retake step 2....is there any chance of me getting a few interviews from the community programs even tho I failed step 2?

the good thing is that your step I score meets most filters (if a filter is set, many programs do not) and if you get 80+ on CK the 2nd round, then you will make any filters...little known fact is that the filters go on the most RECENT exam, not the lowest score...sure the PDs will see that you failed CK and decide not to give you an invite, but at least they will SEE your application. You will need to adjust your strategy a bit- apply a bit more widely and to more community programs, but still doable.


5)Any other advice you can give me? How should I approach this problem and the necessary steps that i should take?

so its crucial that you pass this next time...whether the score is great is not the issue (it will help, but the goal is NOT TO FAIL).

1st you need to take time off- no rotations, even easy ones...its fine to try to juggle the 2 if you don't have a fail, you whatever you did before, DID NOT WORK, period. If you're base knowledge is good, then it just may be that all you need to to is questions, questions, questions....but IMHO it wouldn't hurt to take the kaplan class or pass for this- you have alot riding on this, now is not the time to rush or pinch pennies...do all that you can do to get a passing score.

2nd you need to get away from any distractions while you study- focus on studying

3rd look on the score report to see where your weakness was- is it only one topic? or many? you should focus on any topic that trails more in the gray zone than to the right.

4th DO THE NBMEs--they will give you an idea of where you stand, and don't take the real deal until you are scoring 200+- there is some flux to the scores, plus +/- 15 is probably comfortable enough to know you will pass.

5th do ALL the World questions...then do them again.....read each and every explanation the 1st time and read the ones you get wrong or guessed correctly the 2nd time.


the silver lining is that you took the exam early and still have the ablity to retake and still have much of the interview season still available to you.

Hope this helps and Good Luck!

[Skipper]

Skipper, you seem so eager to advise people to look into FP. IM is not as competitive as you think it is. The OP can still match or pre-match into a position for IM, as long as he/she scores well on STEP 2.


Not to eager. I said that you should not limit himself to IM, especially if you does not do too well on his repeat step 2.

according to the NRMP data. Independent applicants who matched into IM had on average a step 1 score of 220 and a step 2 score of 224.

I never said it was competitive, I just said he/she not limit themselves and give themselves the best chance of matching, which would include applying to FP.

Skipper

[rokshana]

Skipper, you seem so eager to advise people to look into FP. IM is not as competitive as you think it is. The OP can still match or pre-match into a position for IM, as long as he/she scores well on STEP 2.

i agree...there are a lot of IM programs and IM did not fill this year (180+ unfilled spots this year), so IMHO if the OP applies to 150-200 IM programs, he should be able to get enough interviews

[Amyloidosis]

Thank you everyone for all the replies. I appreciate it. I have 2 more questions:

1) As Rokshana suggested, I should take the exam only when I feel I will pass the exam. Well, the question is let's say I feel ready to take the exam in early September or something....by this time most of the applicants will send their applications to residency programs....so for me should I wait till I get my results to submit my applications...which would mean I'd have to submit my applications in October (assuming I pass)....a month later OR should I go ahead anyway to submit my applications on Sept 1 with a fail on CK while I retake CK and wait for the results? What would be a better option...do you think?

2) As Skipper suggested that I should consider applying to FP also.....well, the thing is I don't have any LORs from FP but I do have great letters from IM, Surgery and OB/GYN....so my question is can I apply to FP with IM, OB/GYN and surgery LORs only? And at this moment it is not feasible for me to get a good LOR from FP cuz most likely the attendings don't remember me by now..I did it a long time ago. I was almost set on going to IM that's why I've collected LORs based on that..but now i guess i gotta keep my options open.

[Skipper]

Thank you everyone for all the replies. I appreciate it. I have 2 more questions:

1) As Rokshana suggested, I should take the exam only when I feel I will pass the exam. Well, the question is let's say I feel ready to take the exam in early September or something....by this time most of the applicants will send their applications to residency programs....so for me should I wait till I get my results to submit my applications...which would mean I'd have to submit my applications in October (assuming I pass)....a month later OR should I go ahead anyway to submit my applications on Sept 1 with a fail on CK while I retake CK and wait for the results? What would be a better option...do you think?--I would not wait to submit my app....since alot of programs start offering interviews as the apps come in and once they reach a quote they will stop. this may cause you to lose some programs.

2) As Skipper suggested that I should consider applying to FP also.....well, the thing is I don't have any LORs from FP but I do have great letters from IM, Surgery and OB/GYN....so my question is can I apply to FP with IM, OB/GYN and surgery LORs only? And at this moment it is not feasible for me to get a good LOR from FP cuz most likely the attendings don't remember me by now..I did it a long time ago. I was almost set on going to IM that's why I've collected LORs based on that..but now i guess i gotta keep my options open.--well, you can still apply to FP with those LOR, since they cover alot of FP (OB/GYN and IM portion). I would apply to FP to increase your chances of matching.

Skipper

[rokshana]

i would have to disagree with skipper on point #1 - i think you should wait to submit until you have a passing score .

the reason i say that is because you do have a failed CK score on record and who knows how that will affect how PDs will process your application--obviously if any program sets a filter of even 75, you won't make the cut there. Now, sure they MAY re-review your application after you do post a passing CK score, but who knows?? Last year, all i heard on the interview trail was how this year they had had the most applications ever- 2,000, 3,000 apps to sort through- do you think they would really go back to an application that already has a red flag? Maybe...but do you want to chance it?

better that your application be a little late and have a passed CK score...just apply to lots of programs and be persistant in calling them if you don't hear from them by Nov 1st.

[chapaquito]

Hi,dont think in a Fellowship before Residency,likewise forget about Residency right now,your only though should be step 2,once you pass you will have spots open for you.Go over FA for step 2 CK to view what books o materials it recommends,then go over the exam experiences forums briefly,compare what books o materials they recommend,make a ranking list yourself of the material of review,this has to be done very carefully,afterwards get any of the Q Banks,be this on line or books.Also I think a really great book for Medicine is "First Aid for the Internal Medicine Boards 2nd Ed.by Tao Le,and "The Consult Manual of Internal Medicine by Harry Rosen M.D.,you can use this 2 books as your base and then add the others for review,with this I am very sure you will pass,because in my honest opinion you are drowning in a glass of water.:)

[Scott1981]

amyloidosis,

its only june 1st. you have time. eras doesnt even start transmitting applications until sept 1st. you have two solid months to study your butt off. when i say study.... i mean do thousands of Q&As. make notes while doing them too. get usmleworld and do at minimum all the internal medicine questions..... once again.... make notes.... dont just fly through the questions..... learn from them. when you are done with IM, then move on to the other specialties.

two months is more than enough to study for this thing. if you take it in the beginning of august, you will have a pass score by sept 1st.

[canman]

TAKE the exam before sept 1st and then apply once you have a passing score. don't just pass, as that will hurt you. you need to score above 200. if you apply with a failing score then they wont even consider you! get the kaplan books and study them very well for the next 2 months. once you finish a book from kaplan then do all the questions in usmleworld. take the exam only if you are doing about 70% on world questions!

IM is not as hard do get into!

good luck
canman

[canman]

one more thing. did you pass the CS exam?

[cavalletti]

To the OP. It looks like you've received lots of great advice. All the best. You can do it!

[Amyloidosis]

one more thing. did you pass the CS exam?

I am waiting for my CS results. I just took it recently.

Thank you everyone for your advice/encouragement! You guys have been great!

[mortigitempo]

Alright. I rarely ever comment on this forum, but what ticks the hell out of me is when someone tries to act "realistic" and discourage others from applying.

Look, you screwed up Step 2. Retake, believe in yourself, kill it... apply to those university programs. Thats all you focus right now. As for the timing stuff... my theory is you spend as much as time as possible cranking those steps out. If you feel you need to take it later in Sept, then do it. Worse comes to worse, you sit a year out, but you'll have a solid Step 2 to show for it? Thats better than rushing, getting a mediocre score, and being royally screwed.

Medical professionals and students can be highly discouraging and condescending. I despise a most of them for that very reason. Just believe in yourself and shoot for the stars. You dig?

[Amyloidosis]

Alright. I rarely ever comment on this forum, but what ticks the hell out of me is when someone tries to act "realistic" and discourage others from applying.

Look, you screwed up Step 2. Retake, believe in yourself, kill it... apply to those university programs. Thats all you focus right now. As for the timing stuff... my theory is you spend as much as time as possible cranking those steps out. If you feel you need to take it later in Sept, then do it. Worse comes to worse, you sit a year out, but you'll have a solid Step 2 to show for it? Thats better than rushing, getting a mediocre score, and being royally screwed.

Medical professionals and students can be highly discouraging and condescending. I despise a most of them for that very reason. Just believe in yourself and shoot for the stars. You dig?

Thanks for the encouragement!

[geo930]

I wouldn't apply without having a passing Step 2 score. The only reason to apply early is to get an advantage with interviews and if your scores are lacking, you won't get them anyway.

And DON'T WORRY about what you should apply for at this point. That's not something you should even consider until passing Step 2, analyzing your score, and making a judgment from there.

Yes, you need to find a way to clear yourself of any distractions for the next month, which means taking time off from rotations. There are rotations available where you can literally show up once a week but you almost have to have no conscience to benefit from that. You should shoot for a 200+ to prove that the fail wasn't a fluke...that means scoring 215+ at least TWICE on the NBMEs.

DO NOT rush and succumb to the pressure of submitting applications early. If you take a year off because you haven't quite achieved those target NBME scores yet then so be it. Better than a lifetime of regret after failing again or barely passing. Wait until you do well on the NBMEs and YOU FEEL COMPLETELY READY.

[canman]

pathology rotation at Elmhurst is great for studying for step 2. you get to learn the pathology any you have sooooo much time to study. you can do it fir a month

[Amyloidosis]

Thanks everyone for your advice, tips, and encouragement. I have decided to take a month off and then retake the exam. Hopefully, things will workout this time. Wish me luck!