why to not just apply to saba! Good read for future applicants!

[Mike77]

I just had an epipheny! I applied to saba about 6 months ago, with sept 08 as my first choice, but i was very intent on going here and didn't apply to any other schools (no MCAT limited me a lot). I was told that i'd be put on the waitlist for sepetmeber, depending on how the next few interivews went to fill up september. This confused me because since i applied before these people, theoretically I should be higher up on the waitlist. Also, I have a very competitive application, so that wasn't it.

It just suddenly dawned on me. MOST students apply to a bunch of schools, and if they are accepted at a few, and have to make a decision. By having no other option, I may have gotten shafted to January thus losing my 2012 match! While if a student was only on the waitlist for september at saba, but accepted at say Ross or SGU for september, they would say 'screw saba' and go to a school that graduated them a year earlier.

Ah well,such is life! Just thought that i'd share this advice for future students applying. If you're accepted at a school of similar quality, you have way more leverage.

I'm pissed off at the idea of someone applying 4 months after me and taking my september spot just because they spent another 100 bucks and applied to ROSS or something. :p

Oh well, lesson learned!


There is of course a chance that my theory is wrong, and that there may be students that just have a better application that are given a higher priority... but with a >3.8gpa, tons of volunteer experience, LOTS of research experience, and a VERY good interview, I doubt that there is a legion of applicants significantly more competative than mine.

[JoeBoogie]

I agree. I was thinking the same thing. I applied before finishing my prereqs and have been told to take the MCAT. My GPA is high for SABA. 3.5/4.0 Just need O Chem. will be done in august.

[Boulderunner]

2012 or 2013 whats the difference.....Youd actually rather go to Ross or SGU and owe an extra 200k to make the 2012 match. In the scheme of things that seems Really myopic to me.

[CANKID]

Keep in mind that because Saba is an IMS and that many accepted ppl will back out last minute and those that are accepted (and undecided) to other schools might decide to go to those schools instead, which will also open up spots at Saba. Keep your fingers crossed. If you're on the waiting list you still have a great chance of getting in, IMO.

[rokshana]

This confused me because since i applied before these people, theoretically I should be higher up on the waitlist. Also, I have a very competitive application, so that wasn't it.


med school acceptances are not 1st come 1st serve. And while you may think your application is competitive, Saba may not (especially since they said they needed to wait to see how the other interviews go....

while the MCAT isn't required by Saba, i would imagine that having a score would make a candidate more competitive than one that does not...

also having an acceptance to another school can make you attractive to a school that is still deciding about you...

[Mike77]

2012 or 2013 whats the difference.....Youd actually rather go to Ross or SGU and owe an extra 200k to make the 2012 match. In the scheme of things that seems Really myopic to me.


That's not the point... I am optomistic and will spend the extra time studying my *** off to destroy the USMLE, or possibly even do some research to get an extra publication (i know that certain residencies really emphasize research) or two. I'm not saying that i'd GO to these schools by any means just to start on time, i mean i only applied to saba for a reason you know!

I am writing this so that people should be aware that, besides the other advantages of not putting all of your eggs in one basket, there is the extra leverage you have on getting the semester of your choice.

Cankid, i'm sure that there's a good chance i'll get in. However, I don't like the fact that I was kinda put on the backburner just for that reason. I dont think its fair that i'm not going to know until like 6 weeks before the term starts, as this is an enourmous factor in what I'm going to be doing in this period. (e.g Ive been looking for some employment, and if i was going in september my choice of jobs would be much different then if I was here for an extra few months. Also, I was planning on doing some traveling, but it's hard to plan with such a big difference in time periods!

[Mike77]

med school acceptances are not 1st come 1st serve. And while you may think your application is competitive, Saba may not (especially since they said they needed to wait to see how the other interviews go....

while the MCAT isn't required by Saba, i would imagine that having a score would make a candidate more competitive than one that does not...

also having an acceptance to another school can make you attractive to a school that is still deciding about you...

Those are all very valid points, but i was thinking that considering the rolling admission, that if you make their requirements, it IS first come first serve. Now that they're starting to fill up their classes, they might follow more of a traditional route.

I did say that this was an alternative, but when I read all these people with 3.0 gpas with 7-9 mcat scores getting in, I don't think that it really compares to a 3.82 cumulative GPA (3.91 last 2 years). It's not like my application was weak in any one area as well. I did explain that i didn't write my mcat because i was originally planning on applying for next year, but oh well.

I'm just saying that it's more likely due to the first reason i explained, then the second. Know what I mean?

[Scott1981]

Those are all very valid points, but i was thinking that considering the rolling admission, that if you make their requirements, it IS first come first serve. Now that they're starting to fill up their classes, they might follow more of a traditional route.

I did say that this was an alternative, but when I read all these people with 3.0 gpas with 7-9 mcat scores getting in, I don't think that it really compares to a 3.82 cumulative GPA (3.91 last 2 years). It's not like my application was weak in any one area as well. I did explain that i didn't write my mcat because i was originally planning on applying for next year, but oh well.

I'm just saying that it's more likely due to the first reason i explained, then the second. Know what I mean?

why dont you at least attempt the mcat.... and if you get a 30.... you should have no problem being at the minimum competitive in a us school.

[stephew]

more to the point, why aren't you applying to a us school? if its an mcat issue, id seriously consider trying again.


with a >3.8gpa, tons of volunteer experience, LOTS of research experience, and a VERY good interview, I doubt that there is a legion of applicants significantly more competative than mine.

[covarubious]

the major issue for those of us with high gpas (canadians anyway) is price...

more to the point, why aren't you applying to a us school? if its an mcat issue, id seriously consider trying again.

[rokshana]

the major issue for those of us with high gpas (canadians anyway) is price...


price?? canadians aside, for a US student who is competitive for a US school, the benefits of being an AMG is beyond money....i would have easily paid 50+ per year to be an AMG- there IS a difference....going the caribbean route is not the cheaper route- while tuition may be cheaper all the other expenses that go along with being an IMG add up....

[covarubious]

Kinda hard to put canadians aside when its my main point. ;) if i was american i would go to school in the states but i am not and can't pay the extra tuition. thus Saba ;)

price?? canadians aside, for a US student who is competitive for a US school, the benefits of being an AMG is beyond money....i would have easily paid 50+ per year to be an AMG- there IS a difference....going the caribbean route is not the cheaper route- while tuition may be cheaper all the other expenses that go along with being an IMG add up....

[gumby]

Those are all very valid points, but i was thinking that considering the rolling admission, that if you make their requirements, it IS first come first serve. Now that they're starting to fill up their classes, they might follow more of a traditional route.

I did say that this was an alternative, but when I read all these people with 3.0 gpas with 7-9 mcat scores getting in, I don't think that it really compares to a 3.82 cumulative GPA (3.91 last 2 years). It's not like my application was weak in any one area as well. I did explain that i didn't write my mcat because i was originally planning on applying for next year, but oh well.

I'm just saying that it's more likely due to the first reason i explained, then the second. Know what I mean?

Perhaps you may have not had as great an interview as you thought. Your GPA is commendable, but you also have not taken the MCAT. And even though you gave an explanation as to why you didn't take it, nonetheless you still have no score. There is absolutely no correlation between undergrad GPA and success in medical school. I know 4.0 students here that have struggled, some even failed out. Other students, matching the qualifications you believe don't compare with yours, have done very well here and have gone on to 'destroy' the USMLE, as you put it.
I guess my biggest point is this. If you come across to an admissions director like you have a sense of entitlement, you are facing an uphill battle getting accepted. Confidence is good, but there are hundreds, if not thousands of applicants with better numbers than you. There is absolutely nothing fair about getting accepted to medical school. Get used to it.
As a word of advise, it would be better if you went ahead and took the MCAT. Not only would it make you more competitive numbers wise, but would also open up many other medical schools to apply to.

Just my two cents.

All the best.

[rokshana]

Kinda hard to put canadians aside when its my main point. ;) if i was american i would go to school in the states but i am not and can't pay the extra tuition. thus Saba ;)


well, no IMHO i would think a canadian who could get into to a US med school would benefit more from being an AMG- so price still wouldn't be an issue. But i have learned that it is quite difficult for ya'll to get into your own schools, even with crazy high gpas and mcat scores and that as a non US citizen or green card holder, it is difficult to get into a US school- so i would see how the offshore schools would be more of an option.

but if you GOT into a US school, then money aside, you should still go- but I'm not canadian, so i could be off base - but would a US degree be seen as the same as a caribbean MD degree for CaRMs?

[Mike77]

I didn't write my MCAT because I would have to wait a whole year to apply again, and I figured that the advantages of going to an American/Canadian school wouldn't have been that much greater than saba. Also, the cost of a US school was huge.

Perhaps you may have not had as great an interview as you thought. Your GPA is commendable, but you also have not taken the MCAT. And even though you gave an explanation as to why you didn't take it, nonetheless you still have no score. There is absolutely no correlation between undergrad GPA and success in medical school. I know 4.0 students here that have struggled, some even failed out. Other students, matching the qualifications you believe don't compare with yours, have done very well here and have gone on to 'destroy' the USMLE, as you put it.
I guess my biggest point is this. If you come across to an admissions director like you have a sense of entitlement, you are facing an uphill battle getting accepted. Confidence is good, but there are hundreds, if not thousands of applicants with better numbers than you. There is absolutely nothing fair about getting accepted to medical school. Get used to it.
As a word of advise, it would be better if you went ahead and took the MCAT. Not only would it make you more competitive numbers wise, but would also open up many other medical schools to apply to.

Just my two cents.

All the best.


Well I appreciate your comments, but i see it a bit differently. First of all, of course the quality of an interview is VERY subjective (some prefer introverts, others perfer extroverts, etc.) I have always done well in interviews, and felt that I had very good answers for everything they said. Even the people interviewing me were like "wow, good answer" etc. I am a very humble person, but I was just saying that in general, there is no weakness to my application so that most likely wasn't the reason. I even went over my application with one of my profs who's on the UBC medical board (they do the interviews) and she said that I would be a very strong candidate for any canadian school, and she even urged me to wait another year and apply. I didn't want to come off as cocky, I was just saying that it's not likely that I got shafted for having a marginally accepted application. I really apoligize if I came off that way, seriusly.

Regarding the undergrad gpa and med school success, is that based on personal observations, or has there been studies? I truly doubt there is a r value of ~0 for a correlation between undergrad success and med school. I defenitly believe that there is a very weak correlation at least.

For your MCAT advice, I figured that i'm going to work so hard at medical school that I will land a residency, so going to a different school wouldn't neccesarily be worth the wait. I have put a lot of thought into it, and this seemed like the best option.

Am I wrong though, is it really that much better to go to a US school? (there's a controversial topic!)

[covarubious]

The friend I mentioned earlier who just graduated in Chicago is canadian so getting in is not an issue. But he had parents to refinance their homes to pay for it. lol as far as i know a canadian pays int tuition at an american school right? theres no way i could pay that so no way i could finnish so all benefits of an american school over carib is lost if i can't finnish. ;) You are right though, as an Ontario student its almost inpossible to get in to med school. Other provinces put aside the majority of their slots to students from their own province so its not as bad. for ontario they don't so were screwed. ;) thus the massive ammount of Saba students from Ontario and Toronto, da big city. ;) oh, if you know a decent american school that would cost the same as Saba hook me up, I'm there! as far as I know though an american degree would be seen better then a carib... If I could avoid the hastle of being an IMG i would.
btw thanks for your thoughts and for keeping it civil. ;) no flaming and nastiness. so rare here. lol

well, no IMHO i would think a canadian who could get into to a US med school would benefit more from being an AMG- so price still wouldn't be an issue. But i have learned that it is quite difficult for ya'll to get into your own schools, even with crazy high gpas and mcat scores and that as a non US citizen or green card holder, it is difficult to get into a US school- so i would see how the offshore schools would be more of an option.

but if you GOT into a US school, then money aside, you should still go- but I'm not canadian, so i could be off base - but would a US degree be seen as the same as a caribbean MD degree for CaRMs?

[covarubious]

In defence of mikey, from what I know of him he's far from cocky or entitled... And um... thousands of people applying for Saba per semester with a 3.8 GPA? things may have become more competative lately but that seems a little off. September I hear is the most conmpetative intake though so maybe the reason why he was waitlisted? Or maybe all the people who had to defer after the loan drama. Also, when I spoke to the woman in admissions she was very clear that you didn't need the MCAT if you had a high gpa...

Perhaps you may have not had as great an interview as you thought. Your GPA is commendable, but you also have not taken the MCAT. And even though you gave an explanation as to why you didn't take it, nonetheless you still have no score. There is absolutely no correlation between undergrad GPA and success in medical school. I know 4.0 students here that have struggled, some even failed out. Other students, matching the qualifications you believe don't compare with yours, have done very well here and have gone on to 'destroy' the USMLE, as you put it.
I guess my biggest point is this. If you come across to an admissions director like you have a sense of entitlement, you are facing an uphill battle getting accepted. Confidence is good, but there are hundreds, if not thousands of applicants with better numbers than you. There is absolutely nothing fair about getting accepted to medical school. Get used to it.
As a word of advise, it would be better if you went ahead and took the MCAT. Not only would it make you more competitive numbers wise, but would also open up many other medical schools to apply to.

Just my two cents.

All the best.

[gumby]

I didn't write my MCAT because I would have to wait a whole year to apply again, and I figured that the advantages of going to an American/Canadian school wouldn't have been that much greater than saba. Also, the cost of a US school was huge.




Well I appreciate your comments, but i see it a bit differently. First of all, of course the quality of an interview is VERY subjective (some prefer introverts, others perfer extroverts, etc.) I have always done well in interviews, and felt that I had very good answers for everything they said. Even the people interviewing me were like "wow, good answer" etc. I am a very humble person, but I was just saying that in general, there is no weakness to my application so that most likely wasn't the reason. I even went over my application with one of my profs who's on the UBC medical board (they do the interviews) and she said that I would be a very strong candidate for any canadian school, and she even urged me to wait another year and apply. I didn't want to come off as cocky, I was just saying that it's not likely that I got shafted for having a marginally accepted application. I really apoligize if I came off that way, seriusly.

Regarding the undergrad gpa and med school success, is that based on personal observations, or has there been studies? I truly doubt there is a r value of ~0 for a correlation between undergrad success and med school. I defenitly believe that there is a very weak correlation at least.

For your MCAT advice, I figured that i'm going to work so hard at medical school that I will land a residency, so going to a different school wouldn't neccesarily be worth the wait. I have put a lot of thought into it, and this seemed like the best option.

Am I wrong though, is it really that much better to go to a US school? (there's a controversial topic!)

Just wanted to address a few points you made that are highlighted above.
1. No weakness in your application??? Are you serious? EVERYBODY has a weakness in their app. No exceptions. And despite what anyone says about the MCAT not being mandatory (there is a whole other discussion to have as to why its not mandatory now), the reality is that an applicant with even a marginal MCAT score looks better than somebody without it. I have a friend that has tried to get into the same class that you are going for, and she has a 3.85 GPA in undergrad and a 3.96 for her masters. She was told that they want her to take the MCAT.
2. Our school (yes, I'm currently a student) just did a retrospective analysis of recent student performance on the pathology shelf test as well as the USMLE step 1 and found the undergrad gpa of students to have an r value of 0.1 in predicting success on the boards. However, there is an r value of 0.8 for your gpa on Saba.
3. The school you go to has a huge impact on the residency you get, especially if you are an IMG. Don't let anybody fool you into thinking otherwise.
4. You seem like a nice guy with a lot going for you. So I am going to do you a huge favor in telling you that yes, you are wrong. There is an enormous difference in going to a US or Canadian medical school as opposed to attending a Caribbean school, or any other IMG school for that matter. Ask any one of my classmates if they would rather be in a US med school right now, and I promise every single one of them would switch given the opportunity. Don't be a fool. Take the MCAT, get accepted to a US school, and avoid all the hassle of being an IMG. And don't let the tuition rate fool you, it is VERY expensive down here. The cost of living is through the roof. If you apply and don't get accepted, then yes, Saba is a viable option. But certainly shouldn't be your first choice.

All the best

[covarubious]

I have to disagree with a few things as well. ;) Not everybody has a weakness in their app. If you meet and surpass all the criteria layed out then how is there weakness? Yes there will always be somebody better but that doesn't mean there is something wronge with your app.
Are you seriously saying that a person with a 3.96 gpa in her masters was asked by SABA to write the mcat?? that seems highly unlikely...

Just wanted to address a few points you made that are highlighted above.
1. No weakness in your application??? Are you serious? EVERYBODY has a weakness in their app. No exceptions. And despite what anyone says about the MCAT not being mandatory (there is a whole other discussion to have as to why its not mandatory now), the reality is that an applicant with even a marginal MCAT score looks better than somebody without it. I have a friend that has tried to get into the same class that you are going for, and she has a 3.85 GPA in undergrad and a 3.96 for her masters. She was told that they want her to take the MCAT.
2. Our school (yes, I'm currently a student) just did a retrospective analysis of recent student performance on the pathology shelf test as well as the USMLE step 1 and found the undergrad gpa of students to have an r value of 0.1 in predicting success on the boards. However, there is an r value of 0.8 for your gpa on Saba.
3. The school you go to has a huge impact on the residency you get, especially if you are an IMG. Don't let anybody fool you into thinking otherwise.
4. You seem like a nice guy with a lot going for you. So I am going to do you a huge favor in telling you that yes, you are wrong. There is an enormous difference in going to a US or Canadian medical school as opposed to attending a Caribbean school, or any other IMG school for that matter. Ask any one of my classmates if they would rather be in a US med school right now, and I promise every single one of them would switch given the opportunity. Don't be a fool. Take the MCAT, get accepted to a US school, and avoid all the hassle of being an IMG. And don't let the tuition rate fool you, it is VERY expensive down here. The cost of living is through the roof. If you apply and don't get accepted, then yes, Saba is a viable option. But certainly shouldn't be your first choice.

All the best

[rokshana]

Just wanted to address a few points you made that are highlighted above.
3. The school you go to has a huge impact on the residency you get, especially if you are an IMG. Don't let anybody fool you into thinking otherwise.
4. You seem like a nice guy with a lot going for you. So I am going to do you a huge favor in telling you that yes, you are wrong. There is an enormous difference in going to a US or Canadian medical school as opposed to attending a Caribbean school, or any other IMG school for that matter. Ask any one of my classmates if they would rather be in a US med school right now, and I promise every single one of them would switch given the opportunity. Don't be a fool. Take the MCAT, get accepted to a US school, and avoid all the hassle of being an IMG. And don't let the tuition rate fool you, it is VERY expensive down here. The cost of living is through the roof. If you apply and don't get accepted, then yes, Saba is a viable option. But certainly shouldn't be your first choice.

All the best

couldn't have said it better!

and to the OP, if you didn't want to wait the year to take the MCAT and then apply to Canadian or US schools, you will have a problem with all the other waiing you will have to do...waiting that goes on on ALL the caribbean island in general, the waiting for rotations (i'm not saying Saba has issues with this!!, but in generally there is always some waiting at all the schools- Ross is the only one where the waiting is harmful), the waiting that you may have to do to get a residency in the US if you are a non-citizen/non-green card holder to get the proper visa, etc, etc, etc....

listen to that advisor you spoke with...take the MCATs apply to canadian, US, and caribbean schools...if you get into either of the 1st 2, GO!!!- academically, and career-wise, its the wiser choice (money is a different story and if, IF you cannot afford it and its the ONLY way you can get an MD, then go off shore- but don't be fooled- it is not always the cheapest route!).

[Mike77]

Just wanted to address a few points you made that are highlighted above.
1. No weakness in your application??? Are you serious? EVERYBODY has a weakness in their app. No exceptions. And despite what anyone says about the MCAT not being mandatory (there is a whole other discussion to have as to why its not mandatory now), the reality is that an applicant with even a marginal MCAT score looks better than somebody without it. I have a friend that has tried to get into the same class that you are going for, and she has a 3.85 GPA in undergrad and a 3.96 for her masters. She was told that they want her to take the MCAT.
2. Our school (yes, I'm currently a student) just did a retrospective analysis of recent student performance on the pathology shelf test as well as the USMLE step 1 and found the undergrad gpa of students to have an r value of 0.1 in predicting success on the boards. However, there is an r value of 0.8 for your gpa on Saba.
3. The school you go to has a huge impact on the residency you get, especially if you are an IMG. Don't let anybody fool you into thinking otherwise.
4. You seem like a nice guy with a lot going for you. So I am going to do you a huge favor in telling you that yes, you are wrong. There is an enormous difference in going to a US or Canadian medical school as opposed to attending a Caribbean school, or any other IMG school for that matter. Ask any one of my classmates if they would rather be in a US med school right now, and I promise every single one of them would switch given the opportunity. Don't be a fool. Take the MCAT, get accepted to a US school, and avoid all the hassle of being an IMG. And don't let the tuition rate fool you, it is VERY expensive down here. The cost of living is through the roof. If you apply and don't get accepted, then yes, Saba is a viable option. But certainly shouldn't be your first choice.

All the best

1. If by weakness, you mean the WEAKEST part of my application, then of course I have a weakness. In this case it would probably be my lack of MCAT, or my GPA (I felt my extra-curricular/volunteer and interview was very very strong). To say everyone has a weak point in their application simply isn't true. That's why you hear of some people aplying to 6 med schools and getting into all 6 (bastards).
2. I'm guessing those are r and not r squared? Even so , that is awesome to know! I figured there'd be a weak corr for undergrad, but a .8 for saba grades?! that IS impressive!
3. I was under the impression that in order of importance it was a. usmle scores 2. reference letters 3. where you did your rotations/electives 4. school gpa and school. Am I way off? :(
4. I really appreciate the advice, and will consider this. Thanks a lot for your help and not being hostile in doing so :).


rokshashana.... When you're talking about all of the waiting, let me put this in perspective. So if I started in january 2009, I might not even make the 2013 match?! That's got to be wrong, isn't it?

[Mike77]

damn, just got todays mail and i was confirmed for January :(.

4 more months of shitty jobs

[Mike77]

damn, just got todays mail and i was confirmed for January :(.

4 more months of crappy jobs

[rokshana]

rokshana.... When you're talking about all of the waiting, let me put this in perspective. So if I started in january 2009, I might not even make the 2013 match?! That's got to be wrong, isn't it?

No, at saba, you start jan 09, you will make the 13 match- the waiting isn't so long to extend you a year (ross would be a different story, that has been known to happen), but you can have gaps (this is true for most caribbean schools, not just saba) of weeks between rotations, as well as having to do 4th year electives to fill in some of those gaps. Now that may not sound so bad, but 3rd year cores are 3rd year cores for a reason and by not being able to take all 3rd year cores back to back can delay you in taking Step 2 or force you to take it without all the cores.

[rokshana]

damn, just got todays mail and i was confirmed for January :(.

4 more months of crappy jobs


perfect opportunity for you to study for the MCATs and apply to US and Canadian schools- if you get in great!!!, if not then you have someplace to go...

[Mike77]

No, at saba, you start jan 09, you will make the 13 match- the waiting isn't so long to extend you a year (ross would be a different story, that has been known to happen), but you can have gaps (this is true for most caribbean schools, not just saba) of weeks between rotations, as well as having to do 4th year electives to fill in some of those gaps. Now that may not sound so bad, but 3rd year cores are 3rd year cores for a reason and by not being able to take all 3rd year cores back to back can delay you in taking Step 2 or force you to take it without all the cores.


Hmmmm, well if I had some gaps in my cores I'd just try and do some USMLE review. However taking the step II without all my cores seems like career suicide! Any idea on how much longer students on average take?

Regarding applying to US/Canadian schools, the only problem is that I wouldn't even know if I got an interview until Saba had already started. Thus, I couldn't really utilize that option. What'd you think?

[rokshana]

Hmmmm, well if I had some gaps in my cores I'd just try and do some USMLE review. However taking the step II without all my cores seems like career suicide! Any idea on how much longer students on average take?

Regarding applying to US/Canadian schools, the only problem is that I wouldn't even know if I got an interview until Saba had already started. Thus, I couldn't really utilize that option. What'd you think?

there have been posts here on the length of time between rotations, but it can vary...and you may not have to wait, but the point is that you don't know and really have no control over whether you will have gaps or not...

as for not knowing, i beg to diff...interview season starts in sept-oct...if you start studying now and take the mcat somewhere in august, you should be able to get interviews before january (interviews after january are generally for a waitlist spot anyway....) sure you may not know if you got IN, but if you get in while at saba, you simply withdraw and restart at the US school in the fall. Or you could just defer to sept 09- -neither will not change your completion date and match year- it will still be '13.

[Mike77]

there have been posts here on the length of time between rotations, but it can vary...and you may not have to wait, but the point is that you don't know and really have no control over whether you will have gaps or not...

as for not knowing, i beg to diff...interview season starts in sept-oct...if you start studying now and take the mcat somewhere in august, you should be able to get interviews before january (interviews after january are generally for a waitlist spot anyway....) sure you may not know if you got IN, but if you get in while at saba, you simply withdraw and restart at the US school in the fall. Or you could just defer to sept 09- -neither will not change your completion date and match year- it will still be '13.


hmmm hmm hmmm you bring up some really good points. So you can get an interview THAT SOON?! I'm assuming this is for US med schools, cuz i know that UBC does the interviews around january/febuary.

[rokshana]

hmmm hmm hmmm you bring up some really good points. So you can get an interview THAT SOON?! I'm assuming this is for US med schools, cuz i know that UBC does the interviews around january/febuary.


yeah, sorry- i keeping forgeting the canadian perpective...

AMCAS is due usually in june somewhere and then 2ndary applications get mailed out soon after..with your gpa should at least get the 2ndary applications in aug and sept. If you have a reported competitive score, by sept or oct- i would imagine tht you could expect to see interview invites in oct and nov.

no i'm not saying you would definitely GET the invites, but if you get them, there is the chance you would get them before december...

if your scores are competitive for canada, you could defer the saba acceptance to the fall and give your self the chance...while its a delay to start, it is not a delay to finish (since with a jan entrance, you will not likely make the '12 match), so what can it hurt it you at least try for canada or the states? believe me...if waiting 8 months gives you entrance to a North American school, it is well worth it.

[covarubious]

wow, alot of very useful information, thanks. you keep making me want to ditch SABA and go to an American school. lol does admissions know about you? ;) i will have to talk to me friend about med schools in chicago and what they charged him as a canadian but i doubt it will be in my price range especially with all the lenders for american schools disappearing. btw do all american schools require the mcat and that you complete your uni degree?

yeah, sorry- i keeping forgeting the canadian perpective...

AMCAS is due usually in june somewhere and then 2ndary applications get mailed out soon after..with your gpa should at least get the 2ndary applications in aug and sept. If you have a reported competitive score, by sept or oct- i would imagine tht you could expect to see interview invites in oct and nov.

no i'm not saying you would definitely GET the invites, but if you get them, there is the chance you would get them before december...

if your scores are competitive for canada, you could defer the saba acceptance to the fall and give your self the chance...while its a delay to start, it is not a delay to finish (since with a jan entrance, you will not likely make the '12 match), so what can it hurt it you at least try for canada or the states? believe me...if waiting 8 months gives you entrance to a North American school, it is well worth it.

[rokshana]

with all the lenders for american schools disappearing. btw do all american schools require the mcat and that you complete your uni degree?

and at this moment the loan situation DOES put a wrinkle in things. Like someone said before, what good is it to get into a better school if in the end you can't finish because you can't finance it? For a US student, Stafford and GradPlus loans make both the US schools and some foreign schools possible regardless of the cost. But I don't know what the situation is for Canadian students. I have heard from some of my Canadian friends that they have to rely so much more on private loans and that sources that were once easily available to students are no longer available. My question though, wouldn't there be more loan sources available to fund a US school attendance rather than a caribbean one? Or is just the lump sum total that needs to be financed that is the issue?

[covarubious]

that was me. lol well, the most common loan option here is the med school line of credit from RBC or Bank of Montreal. ($150 000) they will lend no matter where you go but they make it much harder on you if your going outside the US or Canada... There is also Canhelp which will pay up to COE but their lender just pulled out. (i think it is american based? not sure) then there is OSAP for un Ontario students, they will give you some money (it has a federal and provincial component). I am looking into scholorships and such now... I'm not sure how the american lending companies would treata request by a Canadian student... like many people have said befor, it is much easier to go to an american school then the Caribbean but the evils of money... ;)

and at this moment the loan situation DOES put a wrinkle in things. Like someone said before, what good is it to get into a better school if in the end you can't finish because you can't finance it? For a US student, Stafford and GradPlus loans make both the US schools and some foreign schools possible regardless of the cost. But I don't know what the situation is for Canadian students. I have heard from some of my Canadian friends that they have to rely so much more on private loans and that sources that were once easily available to students are no longer available. My question though, wouldn't there be more loan sources available to fund a US school attendance rather than a caribbean one? Or is just the lump sum total that needs to be financed that is the issue?

[Mike77]

that was me. lol well, the most common loan option here is the med school line of credit from RBC or Bank of Montreal. ($150 000) they will lend no matter where you go but they make it much harder on you if your going outside the US or Canada... There is also Canhelp which will pay up to COE but their lender just pulled out. (i think it is american based? not sure) then there is OSAP for un Ontario students, they will give you some money (it has a federal and provincial component). I am looking into scholorships and such now... I'm not sure how the american lending companies would treata request by a Canadian student... like many people have said befor, it is much easier to go to an american school then the Caribbean but the evils of money... ;)

Hate to be the bringer of bad news but no Canadian bank will give you a loan without an amazing credit rating or a cosigner with the current credit crunch. Canhelp folded, and OSAP will cover like 12.5k a year max.

It's either down to saba lending us money, or the econemy dramatically improving. With the demmy's in power in a few months, who knows! :p

[Mike77]

wow, alot of very useful information, thanks. you keep making me want to ditch SABA and go to an American school. lol does admissions know about you? ;) i will have to talk to me friend about med schools in chicago and what they charged him as a canadian but i doubt it will be in my price range especially with all the lenders for american schools disappearing. btw do all american schools require the mcat and that you complete your uni degree?

almost every single one (more so than canadian schools). The ones that don't, require you to be jesus christ himself to get in. (in other words, unless you are absolutly amazing in every possible way, they won't really consider you)

[covarubious]

oh i know, thats why i am picking my richiest friends to whine and dine to convince them to be my cosigners lol my credit, not so great.

Hate to be the bringer of bad news but no Canadian bank will give you a loan without an amazing credit rating or a cosigner with the current credit crunch. Canhelp folded, and OSAP will cover like 12.5k a year max.

It's either down to saba lending us money, or the econemy dramatically improving. With the demmy's in power in a few months, who knows! :p

[covarubious]

Did I mention I can walk on water? ;) A little tricked I learned back in the day. I know a Jesus, but his last name is Constaneda ;)

almost every single one (more so than canadian schools). The ones that don't, require you to be jesus christ himself to get in. (in other words, unless you are absolutly amazing in every possible way, they won't really consider you)

[Mike77]

oh i know, thats why i am picking my richiest friends to whine and dine to convince them to be my cosigners lol my credit, not so great.

good luck with that, my parents wouldn't even cosign mine haha.

You know that if anything happens, they have to pay the entire loan out of their pocket, right?
you must have some nice friends

[covarubious]

Ah, black mail is a wonderful thing. lol well, they know my determination and have confidence i will make it through... I have 2 people already who agreed but going after the bigger money people now. lol

good luck with that, my parents wouldn't even cosign mine haha.

You know that if anything happens, they have to pay the entire loan out of their pocket, right?
you must have some nice friends

[Experienced]

If you come across to an admissions director like you have a sense of entitlement, you are facing an uphill battle getting accepted.

LOL, nothing truer was ever said. Can you imagine how someone who uses 'then screw saba' and 'destroy the USMLE' might have come across in his interview? :D

I need to read this board more often. I forgot how FUNNY it can be.

E.

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[covarubious]

hmm somehow I doubt he said that during his interview...

LOL, nothing truer was ever said. Can you imagine how someone who uses 'then screw saba' and 'destroy the USMLE' might have come across in his interview? :D

I need to read this board more often. I forgot how FUNNY it can be.

E.

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[Experienced]

hmm somehow I doubt he said that during his interview...

Great example of concete vs abstract thinking! Even though someone might not be that blatant during an interview, I think a person who thinks and communicates that way outside an interview just MIGHT carry that attitude into an interview, and an interviewer would detect it.

E.

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[Mike77]

Great example of concete vs abstract thinking! No, I'm sure he didn't say that during the interview, but do you think someone who thinks and communicates that way outside an interview just MIGHT carry that attitude into an interview, and that a grown up professional interviewer might detect it? You haven't taken Med Psych yet, have you?

E.

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Now i'm getting slack for using terms like 'destroy the usmle'? Comon guys! This is how I talk to my friends on a day to day basis, most of whom are just your typical everyday kids. It's a very informal and laid back way of talking, something that I do when I am talking to my friends. Keep in mind that I am 21 years old and from an area in which this is how people my age speak. Now on this forum, considering all the amazing stuff that I have learned, I treat most of the people here the same way that I would my friends. Not to mention, this is an internet forum. In my opinion, this is a casual forum. Would I use that terminology in a professional circumstance? Of course not!

Also to clarify, I am a very humble person in real life. It is difficult to judge someone's personality on an internet forum. I do of course have a lot of confidence, but if you ask ANY doctor, confidence in your own abilities is crucial in medicine. On the contrary, overconfidence can be your downfall.

[covarubious]

no but as a concrete thinker I got to know the poster and actually carried out a conversation and am getting to know him and found him to be without ego and attitude (but with bad tan lilnes lol) instead of relying on posts that have been misquoted or taken out of context by those who disagree with his main point. No, I haven't taken med phych yet but am really looking forward to it.

Great example of concete vs abstract thinking! No, I'm sure he didn't say that during the interview, but do you think someone who thinks and communicates that way outside an interview just MIGHT carry that attitude into an interview, and that a grown up professional interviewer might detect it? You haven't taken Med Psych yet, have you?

E.

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[covarubious]

I've said it befor and I will say it again SSSSSSSSNAP! lol
You know, we are both pretty sarcastic (in the most delightful way) and agree on a lot of topics, I am surprised we haven't been called out yet for being the same person. lol

Now i'm getting slack for using terms like 'destroy the usmle'? Comon guys! This is how I talk to my friends on a day to day basis, most of whom are just your typical everyday kids. It's a very informal and laid back way of talking, something that I do when I am talking to my friends. Keep in mind that I am 21 years old and from an area in which this is how people my age speak. Now on this forum, considering all the amazing stuff that I have learned, I treat most of the people here the same way that I would my friends. Not to mention, this is an internet forum. In my opinion, this is a casual forum. Would I use that terminology in a professional circumstance? Of course not!

Also to clarify, I am a very humble person in real life. It is difficult to judge someone's personality on an internet forum. I do of course have a lot of confidence, but if you ask ANY doctor, confidence in your own abilities is crucial in medicine. On the contrary, overconfidence can be your downfall.

Also, I really couldn't resist taking you down a notch. I have a degree in psychology, and you used the term concrete and abstract thinking WAY out of context. But hey, what do I know, I just spent 4 years studying psychology. You spent a good 4 months alongside other courses, you must know more. Tell me more about medical psychology.

I haven't taken medical psychology, but I've read A LOT about it. :)

[rokshana]

well to be fair mike, you do seem to project a bit of a boastful nature with some of your statements...and this is the 2nd post that you have talked about your UG degree in pyschology....you do realize that there are many here that have multiple degrees... Masters, Ph.Ds, JDs, Pharm.Ds etc ( i have, now um...five degrees but i really don't talk about it here....:D)

now i understand alot of that comes from your age, but realize that many of us here have backgrounds in education and more to the point actual experience in med school. We all had this idea of what med school would be like and soon found out that while somethings hold true, many things are not what we would have even thought would be....

yes, you are right, it is pretty casual here, but i think a poster's personality does come though here and interviewers are pretty preceptive ( i mean there is a reason they are interviewers) and even if you don't so it outright, the mindset can be seen. I'm not saying that was the case with you, but what you write and your statements about being a humble person are a bit contrary to each other.

[rokshana]

You know, we are both pretty sarcastic (in the most delightful way) and agree on a lot of topics, I am surprised we haven't been called out yet for being the same person. lol

well.....but you would have benn busted by the multiple accounts detector by now....:D

[covarubious]

lol with all the posts we've made in the past few days we probably would have broken it ;)

well.....but you would have benn busted by the multiple accounts detector by now....:D

[wolfvgang22]

I didn't write my MCAT because I would have to wait a whole year to apply again, and I figured that the advantages of going to an American/Canadian school wouldn't have been that much greater than saba. Also, the cost of a US school was huge.




Well I appreciate your comments, but i see it a bit differently. First of all, of course the quality of an interview is VERY subjective (some prefer introverts, others perfer extroverts, etc.) I have always done well in interviews, and felt that I had very good answers for everything they said. Even the people interviewing me were like "wow, good answer" etc. I am a very humble person, but I was just saying that in general, there is no weakness to my application so that most likely wasn't the reason. I even went over my application with one of my profs who's on the UBC medical board (they do the interviews) and she said that I would be a very strong candidate for any canadian school, and she even urged me to wait another year and apply. I didn't want to come off as cocky, I was just saying that it's not likely that I got shafted for having a marginally accepted application. I really apoligize if I came off that way, seriusly.

Regarding the undergrad gpa and med school success, is that based on personal observations, or has there been studies? I truly doubt there is a r value of ~0 for a correlation between undergrad success and med school. I defenitly believe that there is a very weak correlation at least.

For your MCAT advice, I figured that i'm going to work so hard at medical school that I will land a residency, so going to a different school wouldn't neccesarily be worth the wait. I have put a lot of thought into it, and this seemed like the best option.

Am I wrong though, is it really that much better to go to a US school? (there's a controversial topic!)
I agree with rokshana and gumby. Mike77, my early posts back when I was a prospective student looked a lot like yours. In retrospect I should have tried harder to get into a U.S. school, as it is less expensive and does not have all the extra hurdles that being an IMG causes.
The current loan difficulties would definitely make me wait and go U.S. if I were to re-do things! Don't get me wrong, I like Saba a lot and am very grateful for my opportunity and education, but today I would do things even better.

Now, separately, to all posters as a moderator: This thread has been great. Please refrain from any flaming - I don't want to have to close it! I know who started it and the appropriate ones have been warned.

[Mike77]

I agree with rokshana and gumby. Mike77, my early posts back when I was a prospective student looked a lot like yours. In retrospect I should have tried harder to get into a U.S. school, as it is less expensive and does not have all the extra hurdles that being an IMG causes.
The current loan difficulties would definitely make me wait and go U.S. if I were to re-do things! Don't get me wrong, I like Saba a lot and am very grateful for my opportunity and education, but today I would do things even better.

Now, separately, to all posters as a moderator: This thread has been great. Please refrain from any flaming - I don't want to have to close it! I know who started it and the appropriate ones have been warned.


hmm I guess I was naive to think that USMLE scores are the be all and end all. I still don't see how a US school would be less expensive, but you guys would know. Also, with the loan difficulties I probably wouldn't get a loan from the US anyway, right?


Rokshana, I really apoligize if I ever came off as boastful. I guess it's hard to read tone in an internet forum :). The only two times i brought up my psych degree was when it was totally relevant. Also, i've had my degree for like 3 weeks, so it is a new feeling for me :D . Lets face it, everyone thinks psych degrees are anyway, so I wouldn't brag about it for the sake of it. I'm sure 90% of people here have tougher degrees, and if a topic in their specialty came up, they might have mentioned it.

Also, 5 degrees? Don't you lose track? haha.

So once again i do apoligize if I came off that way. If you met me in real life you'd know it is so far from the truth. I did re-read one of my post and later realized that it may have come off as arrogant. I'll be more careful in the future.

Cheers

[covarubious]

looking back, yeah, i have to agree, monster ego! lol It is true though that you only braught up the degree in direct relation to something that was said. i mean, they give those things out in cereal boxes these days right? ;) btw our free books venture seems to have been derailed. lol the forum was against the rules and removed.

Rokshana, just curious, what are your stats? when did you go to SABA? Whats your field of speciality? American/Canadian? would love to hear some of your experiences in the whole adventure that is being an IMG


hmm I guess I was naive to think that USMLE scores are the be all and end all. I still don't see how a US school would be less expensive, but you guys would know. Also, with the loan difficulties I probably wouldn't get a loan from the US anyway, right?


Rokshana, I really apoligize if I ever came off as boastful. I guess it's hard to read tone in an internet forum :). The only two times i brought up my psych degree was when it was totally relevant. Also, i've had my degree for like 3 weeks, so it is a new feeling for me :D . Lets face it, everyone thinks psych degrees are anyway, so I wouldn't brag about it for the sake of it. I'm sure 90% of people here have tougher degrees, and if a topic in their specialty came up, they might have mentioned it.

Also, 5 degrees? Don't you lose track? haha.

So once again i do apoligize if I came off that way. If you met me in real life you'd know it is so far from the truth. I did re-read one of my post and later realized that it may have come off as arrogant. I'll be more careful in the future.

Cheers

[rokshana]

hmm I guess I was naive to think that USMLE scores are the be all and end all.
your're not the 1st to come here and think that and if we have you now thinking about it, then this thread has served a purpose.
I still don't see how a US school would be less expensive, but you guys would know.
It may not be, especialy for an International student in the US, even if it is more expensive tuition-wise, the other expenses that are incurred as an IMG will add up as well.
Also, with the loan difficulties I probably wouldn't get a loan from the US anyway, right?
you never know until you check it out- see what options are out there for you.

Rokshana, I really apoligize if I ever came off as boastful. I guess it's hard to read tone in an internet forum :).
thank you but no need to apoligize- you're right -tone is difficult to show on an internet forum- there should be emoticons for it!!:D
The only two times i brought up my psych degree was when it was totally relevant. Also, i've had my degree for like 3 weeks, so it is a new feeling for me :D .
Congrats on getting your degree!



Also, 5 degrees? Don't you lose track? haha.
between my sister and myself, we have provided enough decoration for a wall in my parent's house! I promised my dad i would stop with the MD:D

[rokshana]

Rokshana, just curious, what are your stats? when did you go to SABA? Whats your field of speciality? American/Canadian? would love to hear some of your experiences in the whole adventure that is being an IMG

i've posted before about this, but there is a reason I went to SGU (and I was an SGU student not Saba)-my graduate gpa was really good-3.7ish, but my UG was horrible- 2.7something (tell you what if i was trying to get in now, i doubt i could get in!:D). My MCATs were competitive for the US- 30 (on the 3rd try though- ranged from a 27-30). Background-wise it probably helped that i was an A&P professor for the 5 years before med school!

I did apply to US schools for 3 cycles- waitlisted at 2 schools, 2 years in a row and not having any way to improve my application, applied to 3 of the caribbean schools- got in and went to SGU.

I am going to be an Internal Medicine Intern come July (holy moly can't believe its only a month away!) and hope to do an endocrine fellowship after...

as for experiences? Well there is a thread over on the ross forum that is about memories-- many of those are similar to my own-and living on tropical islands for 2 years was fun and i made great friends that are very dear to me- and going through a cat 5 hurricane during 2nd term was surreal (and not necessarily one i would like to experience again!).

my stats and experiences aren't much different from most of us in any of thte caribbean school- we have a weakness in our application somewhere, whether it be low GPA or low MCAT and took the 2nd chance that the caribbean schools offer.

I'm an American,so its why i sometimes forget the differences that Canadians have when it comes to med school admission and financing.

[covarubious]

wow, thats crazy! how do they not look more closely at your graduate work then undergrad? wouldn't that have been harder? hmmm A prof huh? Sweet! So you have been on both sides of the desk. (5 of my friends are teachers, I curse them regularly during exam time lol)

Internal, nice! I assume i did really well on your usmle and got nice ref. letters? I'm thinking GP here but who knows what will interest me when I am actually doing it.

If I knew I could come back to canada no problem after Saba I would say XXXX all the other school and run there. I like the Caribbean thing, the small island with no distractions, and it would be nice to get away from the big city for a while. besides, I am soo prepared for SABA and I know over 100 people in school there rigght. it would suck to have to research a new school all over again. lol

i've posted before about this, but there is a reason I went to SGU (and I was an SGU student not Saba)-my graduate gpa was really good-3.7ish, but my UG was horrible- 2.7something (tell you what if i was trying to get in now, i doubt i could get in!:D). My MCATs were competitive for the US- 30 (on the 3rd try though- ranged from a 27-30). Background-wise it probably helped that i was an A&P professor for the 5 years before med school!

I did apply to US schools for 3 cycles- waitlisted at 2 schools, 2 years in a row and not having any way to improve my application, applied to 3 of the caribbean schools- got in and went to SGU.

I am going to be an Internal Medicine Intern come July (holy moly can't believe its only a month away!) and hope to do an endocrine fellowship after...

as for experiences? Well there is a thread over on the ross forum that is about memories-- many of those are similar to my own-and living on tropical islands for 2 years was fun and i made great friends that are very dear to me- and going through a cat 5 hurricane during 2nd term was surreal (and not necessarily one i would like to experience again!).

my stats and experiences aren't much different from most of us in any of thte caribbean school- we have a weakness in our application somewhere, whether it be low GPA or low MCAT and took the 2nd chance that the caribbean schools offer.

I'm an American,so its why i sometimes forget the differences that Canadians have when it comes to med school admission and financing.

[gumby]

Now i'm getting slack for using terms like 'destroy the usmle'? Comon guys! This is how I talk to my friends on a day to day basis, most of whom are just your typical everyday kids. It's a very informal and laid back way of talking, something that I do when I am talking to my friends. Keep in mind that I am 21 years old and from an area in which this is how people my age speak. Now on this forum, considering all the amazing stuff that I have learned, I treat most of the people here the same way that I would my friends. Not to mention, this is an internet forum. In my opinion, this is a casual forum. Would I use that terminology in a professional circumstance? Of course not!

Also to clarify, I am a very humble person in real life. It is difficult to judge someone's personality on an internet forum. I do of course have a lot of confidence, but if you ask ANY doctor, confidence in your own abilities is crucial in medicine. On the contrary, overconfidence can be your downfall.

:lolup: I'm sorry, but I just can't help but chuckle a bit.

[gumby]

I have to disagree with a few things as well. ;) Not everybody has a weakness in their app. If you meet and surpass all the criteria layed out then how is there weakness? Yes there will always be somebody better but that doesn't mean there is something wronge with your app.
Are you seriously saying that a person with a 3.96 gpa in her masters was asked by SABA to write the mcat?? that seems highly unlikely...

Unfortunately you have fallen into the trap of thinking that the criteria Saba puts out for admissions, or any medical school for that matter, is the standard you need to meet in order to get accepted. Yes, I said everybody has a weakness in their application, and I stand by that statement. You aren't trying to compete with the minimum criteria set by the school, you are trying to compete with other applicants. There will always be somebody with something better on their app than yours.

As far as you pretty much calling me a liar, I will refrain from the flame.

[covarubious]

Unfortunately you have fallen into the trap of thinking that the criteria Saba puts out for admissions, or any medical school for that matter, is the standard you need to meet in order to get accepted.
Yes, I said everybody has a weakness in their application, and I stand by that statement. You aren't trying to compete with the minimum criteria set by the school, you are trying to compete with other applicants. There will always be somebody with something better on their app than yours.

As far as you pretty much calling me a liar, I will refrain from the flame.

Not at all, the criteria put out is the minimum criteria to apply. the standard you need to beat is set by the number and quality of applicants applying.
There are very few absolutes in this world...
Isn't that exactly what i said? somebody being better then you doesn't mean you have a weakness...

[covarubious]

Haven't we already covered this? can we lay off mike just a bit here? i mean if we are going to judge people by what we read into their words even after they explain very clearly their intent, would it also be very silly to form judgments on them based on what they choose as their icons? for instance mine says i enjoy crazy German artists ;) (btw as i said earlier, i have actually taken the time to chat with mike and get to know him a little bit and he does not come across at all as entitled)

:lolup: I'm sorry, but I just can't help but chuckle a bit. You have no idea who you are arguing with. I know you are young, but once you get experienced (yeah, I went with it, so sue me) then you might understand my amusement.

[Mike77]

Not at all, the criteria put out is the minimum criteria to apply. the standard you need to beat is set by the number and quality of applicants applying.
There are very few absolutes in this world...
Isn't that exactly what i said? somebody being better then you doesn't mean you have a weakness...

yea, exactly. Is an olympic swimmer who wins a silver medal have a weakness in swimming? Common now.

And I'm not too bothered with all the attacks. One of the best things you can learn in life -- something i've learned in my old age ;) -- is to not let other peoples opinions get to you.

[covarubious]

if you are old dude i must be dust in the wind ;) lol
wow, what an enlightened, mature attitude. ;)

yea, exactly. Is an olympic swimmer who wins a silver medal have a weakness in swimming? Common now.

And I'm not too bothered with all the attacks. One of the best things you can learn in life -- something i've learned in my old age ;) -- is to not let other peoples opinions get to you.

[Experienced]

:lolup: I'm sorry, but I just can't help but chuckle a bit. You have no idea who you are arguing with. I know you are young, but once you get experienced (yeah, I went with it, so sue me) then you might understand my amusement.

LOL, nobody is arguing, just discussing ;)

And sue you? No way. You should get positive reinforcement!

E.

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[rokshana]

yea, exactly. Is an olympic swimmer who wins a silver medal have a weakness in swimming? Common now.


compared to the guy who got the gold?...yes he is...:D

[Mike77]

compared to the guy who got the gold?...yes he is...:D

Then I'll agree with the original point... My application did have weaknesses in comparison to the top applicant for any one aspect of my application. Of course I never said that originally :) , I just said there was no real weak part of my application.

smartass :)

[covarubious]

now now children lets not get vulgar lol

Then I'll agree with the original point... My application did have weaknesses in comparison to the top applicant for any one aspect of my application. Of course I never said that originally :) , I just said there was no real weak part of my application.

smartass :)

[darkmansaad]

i would like to make a formal request to the admin to rename ValueMD to =

Covarubious&Mike77MD

at least until classes start and they are not online anymore

[covarubious]

As apposed to darkmansaadsherbgarden&rudecomments.org? ;)

i would like to make a formal request to the admin to rename ValueMD to =

Covarubious&Mike77MD

at least until classes start and they are not online anymore

[wolfvgang22]

I think that this topic has drifted off it's original topic a long time ago, and not much new is being said here. Thread closing.