Summary of contradictory advices on forum - Avoid hungary or take the plunge?

[ultimatecred]

I am an external observer here – For new readers like myself the following information might help. I'v lurked in & out of this forum many times to see the different perspectives and experiences people have had in the Hungarian education system.

I have very recently been accepted to all three universies for dentistry/medicine – Semmelweis, Pecs, and Szeged. I have completed my undergraduate science degree with a GPA of 3.5. I feel like it is appropriate to point something out here. If I had undergone these programs in hungary, & if I had a bitter taste in my mouth, I would also be inclined to come on valuemd.com and share my dislike for all the crap I have gone through.

I find it is not anyone’s place on this site to criticize these former students from voicing their opinions, as it is their perception – Don’t automatically assume that these students are poor/failed/”party-hard” students.

I will note my observances of the individuals who are pro-hungarian and con-hungarian universities here…and by pro and con I don’t necessarily mean die-hard total love or die-hard total hate. I will try to restrict this list based on whether the person actually EXPERIENCED the program or not. Those who made vague comments on whether the studies are good or bad without providing explanation of any experience whatsoever are excluded:

Con:

+ medical_student_hungary
(extensive criticism of system…including dissatisfaction with use of oral exam system..."We have a lot of students walking around proud that they are so good and know so much and etc etc etc. They will act and show off in front of you, especially the higher years but it is just a front, a subconscious guard to keep them from the truth that is eating them inside. As for myself, I could not look at a new comer without the desire to run, grab them and tell them to get out before they spend even one more dime here...")

+ rs345
(agrees with medical_student_hungary and is shocked at how much his experiences matches the description the previous user made…adds “i do know a few who made good use of their degree, but they are rare and most do not make it to good use”)

+Sophia1978
(not necessarily opposed to the universities but seems to agree with these students…”i'm a graduate of a hungarian medical school as well.a lot of of the negative comments being made about hungarian medical schools are in my opinion true”)

+ Miklos
(“Considering that all that is required to be admitted to an English program in a Hungarian medical school is little more than the ability to pay, are you surprised? On top of that the attrition rate is sky high.”)

+ cyprus@szeged
(Not con…seems to like the experience but I included her in this category because of this incite…“As for the topic starter, I have to admitt that many of his remarks about hungarian medical schools are true up to one extend...as i was pinpointed as one of the easy targets for failing..up untill last summer I blamed most of it to my self but finally I accepted that proper P.R attitude (not bribing though) towards teachers and staff is required to get along here.”)

+ julkin
(“Knowing the fact that, we are supposed to do real Dentistry (I mean studying Dental subjects in detail and in fact, the most important phase of our education and the main reason we came here for) and again taking into consideration that we will be able to do that in the last 2 years of your study period apparently because our first 3 years is already taken by basic medical sciences, again why the hell do we have to know about Obs. & Gyne. or Ophthal., etc. in the 5th year? (summing up: we're going to study Dentistry only for ~1.5 years since the rest of the time is taken by basic medical sciences.")

+ lrry
(“Hungary, it's the freaken pits....well put, if you are just considering the advertised 10,000 tuition, think again...that was my mind set..reptuble, cheap to live etc. , student loans....hahahahaha the hell those programs put one through outside of the medical school...if you're not an a.....k...er and willing to pay the other price...the quote un quote foreign it's hell....in the end one will find out it want be cheap after all.”)

+ Anthony Peterson
(“All the complaints of the students who have been to Hungary, are true. You are better off if you go to Romania, if you are looking for sucha school. If you go to Hungary you won't get a paper from there 100% and the stress will kill you. In Romania, the paying under the table is cheaper,and you will have a fun time!”)

+ AVOID_HUNGARY2
(“At least I was heard and I hope I have saved a few young people from spending thousands of dollars and for losing years of their lives for nothing by coming to Hungary. I had to learn that the hard way.”)

Pro:

+ DrGS
(“I studied my butt off, did very well on the USMLE Steps got into my residency without difficulty - In my residency I soon proved myself one of the top 3 residents in the program in internal medicine. Was on track to be selected as chief resident when I decided to leave to pursue another career in Ob/Gyn (No I did NOT appply and get rejected to Ob/Gyn originally). In my current program I have consistently been the top resident and serve on State and regional Ob/Gyn organizations.”)

+ whattupdog6969
(“ - its far from a perfect school, clinicals are bad at times, but its manageable...- these feelings and doubts will only drown you and make you feel even more depressed. - I graduated from Debrecen Hungary and am one of the top residents in the nation in my field as far as our inservice examinations go and clinical skills go. USMLEs went well just passed USMLE Step 3 with flying colors and am done with them for life and am currently amidst the process of obtaining my permanent liscence.”)

---------------- I have to add an observation here about the above two users seeing as they are one of the most thorough in their comments. Some of the students under the con list have documented their experiences which have been met with criticisms of them being slackers. I would have to suggest the opposite with these two users. I must admit I am an average student (previously stating I have a GPA of 3.5 which is average I guess). So I am not a very high achiever. I can’t help but notice that these two users are howerver. You can argue that the hungarian educational system had alot to do with the fact that they've done so well along with working & studying their butt off but I don't really believe in miracles. Students are intrinsically either very good students, average, or poor.
So I would say that their advice would be best for students who are extremely good students/high achievers/hard workers like themselves. DrGS, as he claims, is a chief/top resident serving in all those organizations, and whattupdog6969 claims he is one of the “top” residents in the nation who passed the USMLE’s with flying colours. I know many many many great students who had undergraduate degrees going into medicine who did horribly on the USMLE’s from great universities with top notch education.

If it’s up to me, I’d take comments from average students with average positions and average scores on the USMLE’s a lot more seriously than probably the top 1-5% of the class in these Hungarian universities. I don’t believe these two users represent the majority of students asking for advice on this forum very well at all…So appreciate the advice but take it with a grain of salt b/c ur experiences/situation might turn out to be the opposite) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+ kristo
(only in first year and emphasizes that his experiences so far aren’t enough for a thorough analysis but adds a lot of input…”Yes, if your examiner is sub-par and in a bad mood, it will probably affect your grade. I've never hit such an examiner myself (please note I'm only on my first year), but I've heard of them. Never heard of them failing anybody who didn't deserve it, though.”)

+ Gawtti
(seems to ridicule automatically & label criticism as the marks of a failed student)

+ graft
(this dude sites the fact that the education is very difficult to endure & emphasizes it several times… but since it’s a medical/dentistry degree, that’s understandable… he writes, “So if you are thinking about coming here, yes it is a very good school, but beware, you will need to have great study habits because unforunately the temptation to go the easy way is very real. My advice is not to pay attention to what others do. From personal experience I admit that it was very hard, but I am glad I studied hard, because it has really paid off.”)

+ Stranger Stel
(even though this dude doesn’t make any claim of experience, his lengthy posts may make some users think the opposite. In fact, he just got accepted and hasn’t gone yet if I understand correctly. Just thought should include this user b/c he’s made a lot of contributions to the discussions)

[ultimatecred]

As I have mentioned, I have absolutely no experience in these schools (Semmelweis, Pecs, Szeged, Debrecen...the 4 medical schools). I have noted that I have only recently applied and accepted to the first three schools I have listed.

I want to express my own thoughts and some might agree or disagree. As well, as I have mentioned, I have an undergraduate degree (B S.c) with a 3.5 GPA.

Having been accepted, I will decline all the offers from the Hungarian schools. This is my reasoning. Having already undergone an undergraduate education, I would like a further education program to provide me with re-assuring stats. That is, I would like to feel safe from this point forth in my education. That said, I have realized through some light research that the attrition rate in these Hungarian schools is very high.

I need to feel that my position in a university is stable (specially if that education involves 5-6 years of my life in another continent - I am currently in Canada).

With the oral examination system in play, I feel like this adds a lot of instability and subjective grading.

I believe that most of the students and former students on this site have cited that all the schools in the Hungarian system use a rigorous system of 'weeding' out students. This is therefore not the education that I want.

The attrition rates of other medical/dental programs in universities (i.e. Canada, United States, Carribean big 4 - Ross U, Saba U, St. George, AUC) is a stable low, with some as low as 5%.

Of course I realize that a medical/dental education involves working and studying very hard. But at the same time that I would like to study hard and not be afraid of being 'weeded' out because I have been having a bad year or have academic complications because of some personal issues during a particular month of study. The chances of personal issues arising during 5-6 years of living alone is very high. This type of stress is not the stress that I am looking for.

At this point after having 4 years of education already, I am looking for assurances. Of course, 100% assurances don't exist, but I would like to get as close as possible. Now, I am looking at some programs in the Carribbean. They look alot more promising.

This, however, might not apply to students who apply straight out of high school as in the Eastern European educational systems.

[gawtti]

i think you'll have no problems getting through a hungarian school. however, taking into account your situation, choosing the caribbean route is a wise move. good luck!

[amaadani]

hello,
good job for putting everything together here for us. like you said many people, "made vague comments on whether the studies are good or bad without providing explanation of any experience" , which is as insane as Bush's idea on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq if not worse :) . cheers, and have a good one.
.



I am an external observer here – For new readers like myself the following information might help. I'v lurked in & out of this forum many times to see the different perspectives and experiences people have had in the Hungarian education system.

I have very recently been accepted to all three universies for dentistry/medicine – Semmelweis, Pecs, and Szeged. I have completed my undergraduate science degree with a GPA of 3.5. I feel like it is appropriate to point something out here. If I had undergone these programs in hungary, & if I had a bitter taste in my mouth, I would also be inclined to come on valuemd.com and share my dislike for all the crap I have gone through.

I find it is not anyone’s place on this site to criticize these former students from voicing their opinions, as it is their perception – Don’t automatically assume that these students are poor/failed/”party-hard” students.

I will note my observances of the individuals who are pro-hungarian and con-hungarian universities here…and by pro and con I don’t necessarily mean die-hard total love or die-hard total hate. I will try to restrict this list based on whether the person actually EXPERIENCED the program or not. Those who made vague comments on whether the studies are good or bad without providing explanation of any experience whatsoever are excluded:

Con:

+ medical_student_hungary
(extensive criticism of system…including dissatisfaction with use of oral exam system..."We have a lot of students walking around proud that they are so good and know so much and etc etc etc. They will act and show off in front of you, especially the higher years but it is just a front, a subconscious guard to keep them from the truth that is eating them inside. As for myself, I could not look at a new comer without the desire to run, grab them and tell them to get out before they spend even one more dime here...")

+ rs345
(agrees with medical_student_hungary and is shocked at how much his experiences matches the description the previous user made…adds “i do know a few who made good use of their degree, but they are rare and most do not make it to good use”)

+Sophia1978
(not necessarily opposed to the universities but seems to agree with these students…”i'm a graduate of a hungarian medical school as well.a lot of of the negative comments being made about hungarian medical schools are in my opinion true”)

+ Miklos
(“Considering that all that is required to be admitted to an English program in a Hungarian medical school is little more than the ability to pay, are you surprised? On top of that the attrition rate is sky high.”)

+ cyprus@szeged
(Not con…seems to like the experience but I included her in this category because of this incite…“As for the topic starter, I have to admitt that many of his remarks about hungarian medical schools are true up to one extend...as i was pinpointed as one of the easy targets for failing..up untill last summer I blamed most of it to my self but finally I accepted that proper P.R attitude (not bribing though) towards teachers and staff is required to get along here.”)

+ julkin
(“Knowing the fact that, we are supposed to do real Dentistry (I mean studying Dental subjects in detail and in fact, the most important phase of our education and the main reason we came here for) and again taking into consideration that we will be able to do that in the last 2 years of your study period apparently because our first 3 years is already taken by basic medical sciences, again why the hell do we have to know about Obs. & Gyne. or Ophthal., etc. in the 5th year? (summing up: we're going to study Dentistry only for ~1.5 years since the rest of the time is taken by basic medical sciences.")

+ lrry
(“Hungary, it's the freaken pits....well put, if you are just considering the advertised 10,000 tuition, think again...that was my mind set..reptuble, cheap to live etc. , student loans....hahahahaha the hell those programs put one through outside of the medical school...if you're not an a.....k...er and willing to pay the other price...the quote un quote foreign it's hell....in the end one will find out it want be cheap after all.”)

+ Anthony Peterson
(“All the complaints of the students who have been to Hungary, are true. You are better off if you go to Romania, if you are looking for sucha school. If you go to Hungary you won't get a paper from there 100% and the stress will kill you. In Romania, the paying under the table is cheaper,and you will have a fun time!”)

+ AVOID_HUNGARY2
(“At least I was heard and I hope I have saved a few young people from spending thousands of dollars and for losing years of their lives for nothing by coming to Hungary. I had to learn that the hard way.”)

Pro:

+ DrGS
(“I studied my butt off, did very well on the USMLE Steps got into my residency without difficulty - In my residency I soon proved myself one of the top 3 residents in the program in internal medicine. Was on track to be selected as chief resident when I decided to leave to pursue another career in Ob/Gyn (No I did NOT appply and get rejected to Ob/Gyn originally). In my current program I have consistently been the top resident and serve on State and regional Ob/Gyn organizations.”)

+ whattupdog6969
(“ - its far from a perfect school, clinicals are bad at times, but its manageable...- these feelings and doubts will only drown you and make you feel even more depressed. - I graduated from Debrecen Hungary and am one of the top residents in the nation in my field as far as our inservice examinations go and clinical skills go. USMLEs went well just passed USMLE Step 3 with flying colors and am done with them for life and am currently amidst the process of obtaining my permanent liscence.”)

---------------- I have to add an observation here about the above two users seeing as they are one of the most thorough in their comments. Some of the students under the con list have documented their experiences which have been met with criticisms of them being slackers. I would have to suggest the opposite with these two users. I must admit I am an average student (previously stating I have a GPA of 3.5 which is average I guess). So I am not a very high achiever. I can’t help but notice that these two users are howerver. You can argue that the hungarian educational system had alot to do with the fact that they've done so well along with working & studying their butt off but I don't really believe in miracles. Students are intrinsically either very good students, average, or poor.
So I would say that their advice would be best for students who are extremely good students/high achievers/hard workers like themselves. DrGS, as he claims, is a chief/top resident serving in all those organizations, and whattupdog6969 claims he is one of the “top” residents in the nation who passed the USMLE’s with flying colours. I know many many many great students who had undergraduate degrees going into medicine who did horribly on the USMLE’s from great universities with top notch education.

If it’s up to me, I’d take comments from average students with average positions and average scores on the USMLE’s a lot more seriously than probably the top 1-5% of the class in these Hungarian universities. I don’t believe these two users represent the majority of students asking for advice on this forum very well at all…So appreciate the advice but take it with a grain of salt b/c ur experiences/situation might turn out to be the opposite) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+ kristo
(only in first year and emphasizes that his experiences so far aren’t enough for a thorough analysis but adds a lot of input…”Yes, if your examiner is sub-par and in a bad mood, it will probably affect your grade. I've never hit such an examiner myself (please note I'm only on my first year), but I've heard of them. Never heard of them failing anybody who didn't deserve it, though.”)

+ Gawtti
(seems to ridicule automatically & label criticism as the marks of a failed student)

+ graft
(this dude sites the fact that the education is very difficult to endure & emphasizes it several times… but since it’s a medical/dentistry degree, that’s understandable… he writes, “So if you are thinking about coming here, yes it is a very good school, but beware, you will need to have great study habits because unforunately the temptation to go the easy way is very real. My advice is not to pay attention to what others do. From personal experience I admit that it was very hard, but I am glad I studied hard, because it has really paid off.”)

+ Stranger Stel
(even though this dude doesn’t make any claim of experience, his lengthy posts may make some users think the opposite. In fact, he just got accepted and hasn’t gone yet if I understand correctly. Just thought should include this user b/c he’s made a lot of contributions to the discussions)

[whattupdog6969]

I am an external observer here – For new readers like myself the following information might help. I'v lurked in & out of this forum many times to see the different perspectives and experiences people have had in the Hungarian education system.

I have very recently been accepted to all three universies for dentistry/medicine – Semmelweis, Pecs, and Szeged. I have completed my undergraduate science degree with a GPA of 3.5. I feel like it is appropriate to point something out here. If I had undergone these programs in hungary, & if I had a bitter taste in my mouth, I would also be inclined to come on valuemd.com and share my dislike for all the crap I have gone through.

I find it is not anyone’s place on this site to criticize these former students from voicing their opinions, as it is their perception – Don’t automatically assume that these students are poor/failed/”party-hard” students.

I will note my observances of the individuals who are pro-hungarian and con-hungarian universities here…and by pro and con I don’t necessarily mean die-hard total love or die-hard total hate. I will try to restrict this list based on whether the person actually EXPERIENCED the program or not. Those who made vague comments on whether the studies are good or bad without providing explanation of any experience whatsoever are excluded:

Con:

+ medical_student_hungary
(extensive criticism of system…including dissatisfaction with use of oral exam system..."We have a lot of students walking around proud that they are so good and know so much and etc etc etc. They will act and show off in front of you, especially the higher years but it is just a front, a subconscious guard to keep them from the truth that is eating them inside. As for myself, I could not look at a new comer without the desire to run, grab them and tell them to get out before they spend even one more dime here...")

+ rs345
(agrees with medical_student_hungary and is shocked at how much his experiences matches the description the previous user made…adds “i do know a few who made good use of their degree, but they are rare and most do not make it to good use”)

+Sophia1978
(not necessarily opposed to the universities but seems to agree with these students…”i'm a graduate of a hungarian medical school as well.a lot of of the negative comments being made about hungarian medical schools are in my opinion true”)

+ Miklos
(“Considering that all that is required to be admitted to an English program in a Hungarian medical school is little more than the ability to pay, are you surprised? On top of that the attrition rate is sky high.”)

+ cyprus@szeged
(Not con…seems to like the experience but I included her in this category because of this incite…“As for the topic starter, I have to admitt that many of his remarks about hungarian medical schools are true up to one extend...as i was pinpointed as one of the easy targets for failing..up untill last summer I blamed most of it to my self but finally I accepted that proper P.R attitude (not bribing though) towards teachers and staff is required to get along here.”)

+ julkin
(“Knowing the fact that, we are supposed to do real Dentistry (I mean studying Dental subjects in detail and in fact, the most important phase of our education and the main reason we came here for) and again taking into consideration that we will be able to do that in the last 2 years of your study period apparently because our first 3 years is already taken by basic medical sciences, again why the hell do we have to know about Obs. & Gyne. or Ophthal., etc. in the 5th year? (summing up: we're going to study Dentistry only for ~1.5 years since the rest of the time is taken by basic medical sciences.")

+ lrry
(“Hungary, it's the freaken pits....well put, if you are just considering the advertised 10,000 tuition, think again...that was my mind set..reptuble, cheap to live etc. , student loans....hahahahaha the hell those programs put one through outside of the medical school...if you're not an a.....k...er and willing to pay the other price...the quote un quote foreign it's hell....in the end one will find out it want be cheap after all.”)

+ Anthony Peterson
(“All the complaints of the students who have been to Hungary, are true. You are better off if you go to Romania, if you are looking for sucha school. If you go to Hungary you won't get a paper from there 100% and the stress will kill you. In Romania, the paying under the table is cheaper,and you will have a fun time!”)

+ AVOID_HUNGARY2
(“At least I was heard and I hope I have saved a few young people from spending thousands of dollars and for losing years of their lives for nothing by coming to Hungary. I had to learn that the hard way.”)

Pro:

+ DrGS
(“I studied my butt off, did very well on the USMLE Steps got into my residency without difficulty - In my residency I soon proved myself one of the top 3 residents in the program in internal medicine. Was on track to be selected as chief resident when I decided to leave to pursue another career in Ob/Gyn (No I did NOT appply and get rejected to Ob/Gyn originally). In my current program I have consistently been the top resident and serve on State and regional Ob/Gyn organizations.”)

+ whattupdog6969
(“ - its far from a perfect school, clinicals are bad at times, but its manageable...- these feelings and doubts will only drown you and make you feel even more depressed. - I graduated from Debrecen Hungary and am one of the top residents in the nation in my field as far as our inservice examinations go and clinical skills go. USMLEs went well just passed USMLE Step 3 with flying colors and am done with them for life and am currently amidst the process of obtaining my permanent liscence.”)

---------------- I have to add an observation here about the above two users seeing as they are one of the most thorough in their comments. Some of the students under the con list have documented their experiences which have been met with criticisms of them being slackers. I would have to suggest the opposite with these two users. I must admit I am an average student (previously stating I have a GPA of 3.5 which is average I guess). So I am not a very high achiever. I can’t help but notice that these two users are howerver. You can argue that the hungarian educational system had alot to do with the fact that they've done so well along with working & studying their butt off but I don't really believe in miracles. Students are intrinsically either very good students, average, or poor.
So I would say that their advice would be best for students who are extremely good students/high achievers/hard workers like themselves. DrGS, as he claims, is a chief/top resident serving in all those organizations, and whattupdog6969 claims he is one of the “top” residents in the nation who passed the USMLE’s with flying colours. I know many many many great students who had undergraduate degrees going into medicine who did horribly on the USMLE’s from great universities with top notch education.

If it’s up to me, I’d take comments from average students with average positions and average scores on the USMLE’s a lot more seriously than probably the top 1-5% of the class in these Hungarian universities. I don’t believe these two users represent the majority of students asking for advice on this forum very well at all…So appreciate the advice but take it with a grain of salt b/c ur experiences/situation might turn out to be the opposite) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+ kristo
(only in first year and emphasizes that his experiences so far aren’t enough for a thorough analysis but adds a lot of input…”Yes, if your examiner is sub-par and in a bad mood, it will probably affect your grade. I've never hit such an examiner myself (please note I'm only on my first year), but I've heard of them. Never heard of them failing anybody who didn't deserve it, though.”)

+ Gawtti
(seems to ridicule automatically & label criticism as the marks of a failed student)

+ graft
(this dude sites the fact that the education is very difficult to endure & emphasizes it several times… but since it’s a medical/dentistry degree, that’s understandable… he writes, “So if you are thinking about coming here, yes it is a very good school, but beware, you will need to have great study habits because unforunately the temptation to go the easy way is very real. My advice is not to pay attention to what others do. From personal experience I admit that it was very hard, but I am glad I studied hard, because it has really paid off.”)

+ Stranger Stel
(even though this dude doesn’t make any claim of experience, his lengthy posts may make some users think the opposite. In fact, he just got accepted and hasn’t gone yet if I understand correctly. Just thought should include this user b/c he’s made a lot of contributions to the discussions)



finally got my permanent license ;-)
and no I am just very hard working. I wouldn't label myself as better than anyone, sorry if anyone took it that way.
This synopsis above is a highly intuitive one, full of good info.
Your GPA of 3.5 is a very good and respectable one, mine wasn't more than that undergraduate wise.
I wouldn't consider myself an extremely good student, or high achiever with alot of talent.
I am merely a hard worker. I worked hard, and that is where my success came from....
Thanks for the compliment though ;-)
that is very very kind of you....
The attrition rate is very high, but it is full of the personality types that you mentioned, cannot name anyone or I will get a warning by the moderator. That is pretty darned sad if you ask me. :rolleyes:
Sometimes, you can work hard and still come up short, it is survival of the fittest, the first two or three years that is.
As long as you are dedicated and determined, and truly put your heart into it, you will pass and succeed.
I have a feeling, that out of the names that you mentioned in the Cons, a few are the same person disguising and posting as a different user name.

[ultimatecred]

As an addendum, I think that a medical program that accepts students with marks that are not medicine/dentistry worthy should generally be avoided. It is without a doubt that the studies are strenuous and it requires a person to be an above average university student to be successful, regardless of how hard he/she is willing to work.

So I do not think it is fair of Hungarian universities (or other eastern European institutions that adopt the same procedures) to accept students whom they KNOW will struggle in the system. The only motivation I can think of which explains why they do this is for financial benefit. Or maybe they don't get a high volume of top notch students applying. Either or, or both.

I genuinely do not think this is a program where a so-so student can be successful with die-hard work ethics. That is not to say that there aren't exceptions. The energy it would take for a so-so student to overcome all this pressure until graduation day is tremendous, and my hat's off to them.

That acceptance letter to a student that more-or-less does not belong there, to me, is like a false promise, providing the student with a temporary fantasy of becoming a doctor.

These students who pack up, leave their families, arrive, study & fail out are not at fault. So I do not like it when people comment on this site that "oh this is probably just another one of those loser dropouts who couldn't make it". It is the responsibility of universities to keep the student population balanced, attrition rates low, & provide realistic, less subjective means of getting through to the next year (which directly relates to the practice of not letting students through to the next year if a student fails in one course).

- There is a popular saying which says, "if their are enough people with a problem of a similar foundation, then there is no doubt there is a problem".

[amaadani]

very good ultimatecred. very good.




As an addendum, I think that a medical program that accepts students with marks that are not medicine/dentistry worthy should generally be avoided. It is without a doubt that the studies are strenuous and it requires a person to be an above average university student to be successful, regardless of how hard he/she is willing to work.

So I do not think it is fair of Hungarian universities (or other eastern European institutions that adopt the same procedures) to accept students whom they KNOW will struggle in the system. The only motivation I can think of which explains why they do this is for financial benefit. Or maybe they don't get a high volume of top notch students applying. Either or, or both.

I genuinely do not think this is a program where a so-so student can be successful with die-hard work ethics. That is not to say that there aren't exceptions. The energy it would take for a so-so student to overcome all this pressure until graduation day is tremendous, and my hat's off to them.

That acceptance letter to a student that more-or-less does not belong there, to me, is like a false promise, providing the student with a temporary fantasy of becoming a doctor.

These students who pack up, leave their families, arrive, study & fail out are not at fault. So I do not like it when people comment on this site that "oh this is probably just another one of those loser dropouts who couldn't make it". It is the responsibility of universities to keep the student population balanced, attrition rates low, & provide realistic, less subjective means of getting through to the next year (which directly relates to the practice of not letting students through to the next year if a student fails in one course).

- There is a popular saying which says, "if their are enough people with a problem of a similar foundation, then there is no doubt there is a problem".

[gawtti]

now, of the four schools, i recommend applying first to semmelweis, szeged, pecs, and then debrecen (in that order). why? because i believe debrecen has the highest attrition rates of the four univs. and, they are the most complained about school.

in debrecen, persians who speak very little english are accepted. however, they get through the first two years and transfer back to iran.

[Back_To_School]

It is without a doubt that the studies are strenuous and it requires a person to be an above average university student to be successful, regardless of how hard he/she is willing to work.


I genuinely do not think this is a program where a so-so student can be successful with die-hard work ethics. That is not to say that there aren't exceptions. The energy it would take for a so-so student to overcome all this pressure until graduation day is tremendous, and my hat's off to them.

Perhaps I have misinterperated what you are saying, but if you had 'die-hard work ethics' then you would be a top notch student anyway, and could have got into a med school in your home country, even if it took a couple of years of applying. What makes a student successful is simply work ethics and knowing the correct way to store and recall large amounts of information. There is nothing magical about the vast majority of med or any other students taking a demanding course for that matter other then their discipline and 'learned' ability to study correctly.

Lets face it, if it wasn't for the money then they wouldn't be offering English taught degrees in the first place and the dropouts have in affect contributed to the non-dropouts tutition as the Unis have to get the money from somewhere, and if they took on fewer people with better grades then the tution fees would simply be greater to compensate.

[cools]

I am an external observer here – For new readers like myself the following information might help. I'v lurked in & out of this forum many times to see the different perspectives and experiences people have had in the Hungarian education system.

I have very recently been accepted to all three universies for dentistry/medicine – Semmelweis, Pecs, and Szeged. I have completed my undergraduate science degree with a GPA of 3.5. I feel like it is appropriate to point something out here. If I had undergone these programs in hungary, & if I had a bitter taste in my mouth, I would also be inclined to come on valuemd.com and share my dislike for all the crap I have gone through.

I find it is not anyone’s place on this site to criticize these former students from voicing their opinions, as it is their perception – Don’t automatically assume that these students are poor/failed/”party-hard” students.

I will note my observances of the individuals who are pro-hungarian and con-hungarian universities here…and by pro and con I don’t necessarily mean die-hard total love or die-hard total hate. I will try to restrict this list based on whether the person actually EXPERIENCED the program or not. Those who made vague comments on whether the studies are good or bad without providing explanation of any experience whatsoever are excluded:

Con:

+ medical_student_hungary
(extensive criticism of system…including dissatisfaction with use of oral exam system..."We have a lot of students walking around proud that they are so good and know so much and etc etc etc. They will act and show off in front of you, especially the higher years but it is just a front, a subconscious guard to keep them from the truth that is eating them inside. As for myself, I could not look at a new comer without the desire to run, grab them and tell them to get out before they spend even one more dime here...")

+ rs345
(agrees with medical_student_hungary and is shocked at how much his experiences matches the description the previous user made…adds “i do know a few who made good use of their degree, but they are rare and most do not make it to good use”)

+Sophia1978
(not necessarily opposed to the universities but seems to agree with these students…”i'm a graduate of a hungarian medical school as well.a lot of of the negative comments being made about hungarian medical schools are in my opinion true”)

+ Miklos
(“Considering that all that is required to be admitted to an English program in a Hungarian medical school is little more than the ability to pay, are you surprised? On top of that the attrition rate is sky high.”)

+ cyprus@szeged
(Not con…seems to like the experience but I included her in this category because of this incite…“As for the topic starter, I have to admitt that many of his remarks about hungarian medical schools are true up to one extend...as i was pinpointed as one of the easy targets for failing..up untill last summer I blamed most of it to my self but finally I accepted that proper P.R attitude (not bribing though) towards teachers and staff is required to get along here.”)

+ julkin
(“Knowing the fact that, we are supposed to do real Dentistry (I mean studying Dental subjects in detail and in fact, the most important phase of our education and the main reason we came here for) and again taking into consideration that we will be able to do that in the last 2 years of your study period apparently because our first 3 years is already taken by basic medical sciences, again why the hell do we have to know about Obs. & Gyne. or Ophthal., etc. in the 5th year? (summing up: we're going to study Dentistry only for ~1.5 years since the rest of the time is taken by basic medical sciences.")

+ lrry
(“Hungary, it's the freaken pits....well put, if you are just considering the advertised 10,000 tuition, think again...that was my mind set..reptuble, cheap to live etc. , student loans....hahahahaha the hell those programs put one through outside of the medical school...if you're not an a.....k...er and willing to pay the other price...the quote un quote foreign it's hell....in the end one will find out it want be cheap after all.”)

+ Anthony Peterson
(“All the complaints of the students who have been to Hungary, are true. You are better off if you go to Romania, if you are looking for sucha school. If you go to Hungary you won't get a paper from there 100% and the stress will kill you. In Romania, the paying under the table is cheaper,and you will have a fun time!”)

+ AVOID_HUNGARY2
(“At least I was heard and I hope I have saved a few young people from spending thousands of dollars and for losing years of their lives for nothing by coming to Hungary. I had to learn that the hard way.”)

Pro:

+ DrGS
(“I studied my butt off, did very well on the USMLE Steps got into my residency without difficulty - In my residency I soon proved myself one of the top 3 residents in the program in internal medicine. Was on track to be selected as chief resident when I decided to leave to pursue another career in Ob/Gyn (No I did NOT appply and get rejected to Ob/Gyn originally). In my current program I have consistently been the top resident and serve on State and regional Ob/Gyn organizations.”)

+ whattupdog6969
(“ - its far from a perfect school, clinicals are bad at times, but its manageable...- these feelings and doubts will only drown you and make you feel even more depressed. - I graduated from Debrecen Hungary and am one of the top residents in the nation in my field as far as our inservice examinations go and clinical skills go. USMLEs went well just passed USMLE Step 3 with flying colors and am done with them for life and am currently amidst the process of obtaining my permanent liscence.”)

---------------- I have to add an observation here about the above two users seeing as they are one of the most thorough in their comments. Some of the students under the con list have documented their experiences which have been met with criticisms of them being slackers. I would have to suggest the opposite with these two users. I must admit I am an average student (previously stating I have a GPA of 3.5 which is average I guess). So I am not a very high achiever. I can’t help but notice that these two users are howerver. You can argue that the hungarian educational system had alot to do with the fact that they've done so well along with working & studying their butt off but I don't really believe in miracles. Students are intrinsically either very good students, average, or poor.
So I would say that their advice would be best for students who are extremely good students/high achievers/hard workers like themselves. DrGS, as he claims, is a chief/top resident serving in all those organizations, and whattupdog6969 claims he is one of the “top” residents in the nation who passed the USMLE’s with flying colours. I know many many many great students who had undergraduate degrees going into medicine who did horribly on the USMLE’s from great universities with top notch education.

If it’s up to me, I’d take comments from average students with average positions and average scores on the USMLE’s a lot more seriously than probably the top 1-5% of the class in these Hungarian universities. I don’t believe these two users represent the majority of students asking for advice on this forum very well at all…So appreciate the advice but take it with a grain of salt b/c ur experiences/situation might turn out to be the opposite) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+ kristo
(only in first year and emphasizes that his experiences so far aren’t enough for a thorough analysis but adds a lot of input…”Yes, if your examiner is sub-par and in a bad mood, it will probably affect your grade. I've never hit such an examiner myself (please note I'm only on my first year), but I've heard of them. Never heard of them failing anybody who didn't deserve it, though.”)

+ Gawtti
(seems to ridicule automatically & label criticism as the marks of a failed student)

+ graft
(this dude sites the fact that the education is very difficult to endure & emphasizes it several times… but since it’s a medical/dentistry degree, that’s understandable… he writes, “So if you are thinking about coming here, yes it is a very good school, but beware, you will need to have great study habits because unforunately the temptation to go the easy way is very real. My advice is not to pay attention to what others do. From personal experience I admit that it was very hard, but I am glad I studied hard, because it has really paid off.”)

+ Stranger Stel
(even though this dude doesn’t make any claim of experience, his lengthy posts may make some users think the opposite. In fact, he just got accepted and hasn’t gone yet if I understand correctly. Just thought should include this user b/c he’s made a lot of contributions to the discussions)


Great post !!!:cool: . Full of useful info for potential students. But agian , the best thing , would be to go and see the place for urself, talk to the students there, and decide. Cause , to be realistic, these pros and cons student posters are very few out of the 100s and 1000s of students studying at the university. So if you visit the place, you can talk to atleast like 25 , see the place , decide how friendly veryone us. I do realize , you have to spend $$ but, and takes some efforts, but i think , its the best to do , before commiting for all six years.

And yes, the attrition are very high , so , beware.!!! But again, there are students that i know of personally , who have completed , 6 years of study , in 6 years. Without any fail and without any repeating...!!!:eek:


Good luck ...:D

[cute_ayam]

ofcoz.. carribean is nota wise move.. cuz.. they r nat even recognized by USA
but atleasta European Union degree is atleast recognized by complete Europe whr u hv a total of 27 countries..
Romania is the cheapest one in European Union.
get admitted there

[ultimatecred]

ofcoz.. carribean is nota wise move.. cuz.. they r nat even recognized by USA
but atleasta European Union degree is atleast recognized by complete Europe whr u hv a total of 27 countries..
Romania is the cheapest one in European Union.
get admitted there

This is wrong - Whoever thinks Caribbean schools are not accepted in the united states have no idea what they are talking about - Researching before posting something should be a priority.

If you want to practice in the United States & earn those big bucks, in fact, I would strongly recommend Caribbean schools (Big 4) over European medical schools. The main drawing points of Caribbean universities is that its highly transferable to the United States as opposed to European Schools as well as their ability to prepare you for U.S exams by USMLE multiple choice type exams. St. George University, during one year, had a passing rate of 90% of its students on the USMLE's, even surpassing some american universities.

The big 4 universities in the Caribbean - St. George, Saba, Ross, & AUC are accepted by ALL 50 STATES (well except I heard some problems with Saba in Texas). Some European Schools boast California licensing and that's attractive to some students...but I mean common...If you're talking about the U.S, Caribbean schools give you California licensing along with 49 more states...lol...I mean there's absolutely no comparison there.

Caribbean schools come in three tiers. If any of the schools aren't the ones above, you might have some problems but your still good to practice in the united states depending on state to state licensing regulations.

[cools]

ofcoz.. carribean is nota wise move.. cuz.. they r nat even recognized by USA
but atleasta European Union degree is atleast recognized by complete Europe whr u hv a total of 27 countries..
Romania is the cheapest one in European Union.
get admitted there

I think , its just been posted here, as a potential advertisement to lure students. The comment is completely baseless as rightly explained by the above post.