What would you do wait an extra year or go to Polish school?

[mdcrunch]

If you had a choice between going to Polish med school or instead waiting an extra year and going to American school or worst case scenario St Georges or Ross.. What would you do wait an extra year or go to Polish school?

[devildoc8404]

Speaking only for myself...

I would wait a year only if I were guaranteed a seat at a US school. I am not aware of such guarantees, but maybe if you are incredibly well-connected?

I would not wait a year for a Carib school.

I would consider (and visit) a broad spectrum of European schools, however, and find the one that was the best fit for me.

Again, that's just me, for my situation.

[chexpool]

well put it this way....

You do a MS of BMS in a medical school for a year...
You do well....
You get into a solid USA medical school
You have at 93% that you will score well on the USMLE

You come to poland.... You spend 4 years or your life and tens of thousands of dollars...

You come to poland.... Nothing is Certain... Nothing is clear.....

[globalrose]

Don't always listen to chexpool, he's just a little bitter about a few things. The education here is what you make of it. And your future can be just as certain as any other medical school, it depends on what you are willing to put into it. If you want to pass all your boards, you'll study and you'll do it...and then you'll get a good residency. It is cheaper to go to school in Poland.

[chexpool]

LOL; i dont know exactly what i am bitter about. Or how thats pertains to this board. i would recommend people posting there own experiences rather then to to contradict my personal opinions and sentiment. In fact doesnt such emotional projection towards me define bitterness?

As for bitterness; I do well at PUMS, i even won a scholorship, i have a sweet GF, and have a really nice two story penthouse. I speak polish and have no trouble living here, so i wouldnt say i am bitter about anything.

but i must say i would be a better doctor and student if they raised the bar. The most self disciplined students do good everywhere. my friend here scored 240's on step one, but hates being here. So the point of school is to force you to perform, this school doesnt force anything, so yes you must make it yourself. unless you have been home schooled your whole life i think people expect a little more out of a graduate level program.

But i must say, i think would have rather lived in india for 4 years then poland, i am just fed up living in this junk as country. looking back i would have rather been spoon feed medicine somewhere else then "making it what i want it to be" put it this way you dont pay builders to build a house and then you do it your self; sure you have to do your work, but this program only produces good students because those students have to over come the backward *** mentality of polish education, so by the time your done you either failed, or independently made your self a doctor.



So yes, you work, you pass, and you do well. This school wouldnt survive without those basic and intrinsic requirements that is stating the obvious.

But you can goto alot of places...

i forgot to mention one thing to take in consideration too though. Think of your peers, PUMS accepts students with 2.5 gpa's without MCAT's.

Meaning half of our class is failing courses and exams on a regular basis. People take 10-15 retakes to passes classes, and some people are passed on " ethical reasons "

Not to mention socially, you get the bottom of the barrel; meaning you get a large group of people that are social retarded/rejects; not the type A personality's would could expect of other med schools. Our class and other classes are the strangest collection of people, they do not represent lets say the average " UG or typical medical type student."

So no i wouldnt say i am bitter. just that there are many other better choices than living in poland. I came here due to my polish heritage and based on friends that came here. The friends i have here i love and respect but you need to dig around to find them.

If your do not have polish/ or european citizenship/ heratiage i think its totally bananas coming here. When it comes to money its more and more expensive everyday, and if you start next year, you will be paying in euros in no time.

GL everyone, my only suggestion is come here, stay a week, test out the waters, and make a decision. And listen to Globalrose, because she is omnitiant; dont listen to my ranting; after all its just my honest and humble opinion.

GL

[bckwood]

I fully agree with Chexpool. This school is a do it yourself school, if your not prepared to teach yourself medicine, don't come. You have no help here from the proffessors or the administration. The only ones you can rely on is yourself and your freinds. If you have opportunity to go to a US school and only have to wait a year.....do it. With the new fee structure here in Poznan it will cost you about the same as a US school. I believe the cost of Tuition it now about $20500 at the current exchange rate.

[StudentMed]

So yes, you work, you pass, and you do well. This school wouldnt survive without those basic and intrinsic requirements that is stating the obvious.

But you can goto alot of places...

i forgot to mention one thing to take in consideration too though. Think of your peers, PUMS accepts students with 2.5 gpa's without MCAT's.

Meaning half of our class is failing courses and exams on a regular basis. People take 10-15 retakes to passes classes, and some people are passed on " ethical reasons "
GL
Hmm I am not sure what year are you into Med School at PUMS .... because a few years would make a big difference. But according to the office in NY the minimmum GPA required to apply for the 08/09 year is 3.0.
Not sure how strict they are about this minimum rule. And whether it's only "for show", just to make them look more legit, or because more influx of students in the last couple of years...

[chexpool]

no doubt that the level of incoming is higher if there is more competition to get in to PUM, they should cut the chairs available by 30 and watch the performance of this school jump. But they are not going to do that remember at PUMS your student id number is $$$$, im in 4yr 2010. I know many people that have below 3.0 and no mcat; in my year and other years of the 4 year program. having said that i knw some people that were below 3.0 and did well on there steps so whatever all that junk means... personally, anything under a 24 mcat, and 3.3 should be automatically rejected but thats just my opinion. i also wish this school kicked people out after 3 retakes but thats not going to happen either.

As for the NY office. They are all lairs; Stan Wiktor the fat cat: "40000k= degree right?" his son andrew Wiktor and our finical adviser has regularly late by 2-3 months on our student loans that we use to live on. according to people on this website they tell applicants that we are accepted in cali which is also a lie. I will sooner believe bums in detroit then anyone in the NY office.

GL guys...

[StudentMed]

personally, anything under a 24 mcat, and 3.3 should be automatically rejected but thats just my opinion. i also wish this school kicked people out after 3 retakes but thats not going to happen either.
GL guys...

I disagree with you about the GPA. The reason everyschool looks at GPAs and MCATs is to ***** student's intelect and mental abilities. MCAT is a pretty good way of assessing students intelligence because the test are more or less the same throughout the country. While courses and dificulty of material and difficulty of examinations vary from University to University. Some big Universities have student overload and many second and third year classes have aroun 700 student and most of the first year classes exceed 1000+ Other universities are begging for students and pretty much take any highschool student that they can get a hold of and really don;t have the pressure that other universities do... And because of that the content of talent varies. And if someone has a 3.9 in one uni he would hardly get a 3.3 at the other. Plus some people had some slips in GPA for not being serious about their studiesbut may be very bright. So GPA I don't think is a fair description of your abilities while the MCAT is. But that my opinion from what i know of Universities across Canada...

[chexpool]

sure your right; thats why i was saying scores are in some philosophical way junk. For example at our school we have 5 point score system. Meaning an A =5. But the thing is people that take retakes and all that, may have higher grades then people that pass on the first time.

So yes, standardized test are to set a standard, and its a good indication prob the best. But no matter what school you come out of; if you are the top of your class you are the top. So at any respective school if you have a 4.0 compared to others who have 2.5. I would be a million dollars that the 4.0 is a better student. when you want to compare schools well i guess you goto the MCAT.

Therefore, its why i included both the MCAT and GPA into my criteria. But having wrote about all of this jazz, make the cut off the MCAT then, whatever. THe 2.5 gpa arnt getting 24s on there mcats anyway, not that 24 is some great score, its just the national average.

GL..

[GJ]

Hey Chexpool, you sound like a broken record. Cheer up!! Life must not be so bad in Poland, especially since you say you live in a two story penthouse. :)

[bckwood]

Hey GJ, I am normally a very happy person. You have to come here to understand what chexpool is talking about......it wears you down....... you'll see if you come here......Thank God I don't live in the dorms at least!

[chexpool]

yeah well i use this forum to let off some steam, if i told you poland was all peaches and cream, and everything is double nice, you would call me an lier when you got here. I just let people know the bad side of life here, the good things arnt worth mentioning. What keeps me sane is living well, better then the bums and drunks i walk by everyday, or the kebabs. So i hardly leave my house.

enjoy

[all4ui_smile]

What keeps me sane is living well, better then the bums and drunks i walk by everyday, or the kebabs. So i hardly leave my house.

enjoy

lol OMG the freaking kebab places are everywhere!!! but you know my friends and being busy all the time keeps me sane, to have people around u all the time going through the same thing helps. It is a balance take the good for the bad, make the best out of it, i have had some of my best times and memories in poland/Europe, it is all on you, be positive, if it was so bad leave and go to caribean we all have choices, just some are easier then others. in the beginning commin to poland, i thought, would be the easier and quicker way out, ooooo boy was i wrong, it is harder, resources are limited and you really have to compromise many things in life as a medical student and as an American/Canadian. i am not saying i love this place, poland drives me CRAZY i swear, somedays, if i have to hear or say Jen dobra one more time i wanna scream! :cursing: but those are ur bad days and hey we are in poland. but i am sure u will look back on it and some day, i already do it now, and just laugh. i would not change my descision to come to Poland it is definitly an expirence. as long as i become a doctor :D

[bckwood]

somedays, if i have to hear or say Jen dobra one more time i wanna scream! :D


See how good the education is here.......Can't even spell hello in Polish after living here awhile, Dzien Dobry;).

[bckwood]

What keeps me sane is living well, better then the bums and drunks i walk by everyday, or the kebabs.

I saw more bums and drunks in the USofA, don't know what neighborhood you live in chexpool, but unless you go to Poznan Glowny or Stary Miasto you don't hardly see them..........and even then there isn't that many.

[chexpool]

haha; first bums have regular meetings at the dorm dumpsters to eat breakfeast, lunch, and dinner, and decide on ways to break into medic. And
well when you try having a bbq at medic, you will have about 5 hanging around.
But mostly around zabkas, especially down by dombrowskiego. not to mention in the hospital beds... your right though no so much downtown, except in that one corner of the rynek.

yeah maybe i am over simplified a little, but i am just taking mostly about skid row types.

According to hygine ;) 20% of poland are alcoholics statistically anyway, and 5% of that 20% is on skid row, according to citibank finical, some how this made it into stock news?>? poland is the largest consumer of heavy booz as well. But hell i never studied hygine so take that as a grain of salt.

[vavachi2004]

I was also considering going to Poland to do a 6 year MD degree, but have been hesitant to do so due to the lack of diversity and also maybe how the life style would be like on regards to drinking and smoking and whatever. I would rather study in the Carrabiens if you got that instead of Poland because their schools are well known in the USA if you are wishing to return there. I am in Canada. Plus, the administration so far in Poland is not that great. I am having to do everything to confirm everything for myself and I think the administration every where else is nothing like this. As for India, hell yea I would go there because everything is great there medical wise and there schools teach really well to make great doctors. If you have one year though for waiting for a USA medical school, wait, and inbetween prepare other alternatives while in the USA process. Good luck...by the way does anyone know about Gdansk Medical School? And is it worth studying here if wishing to return to Canada after the six years or is it better doing BSc and trying my luck to get it here....they're quite picky on obtaining medical students and I am sure they lose at least 50% of students the country could have.

[all4ui_smile]

See how good the education is here.......Can't even spell hello in Polish after living here awhile, Dzien Dobry;).


actually i have rebuttal that one! i have been here for about 6 1/2 months and yes i still barely speak polish, but then again i dont even try. i hate it, it is one on the hardest languages to learn and i simply rather study for my embryo, biochem, physio, neuro, or genetics class a lot of us here feel that way so just try to barely pass the class which is already a joke (hence the spelling lol), the people you are surrounded by all speak english and i will not have to be here for my clinicals. this is getting to the education over all.....in regards to the actual sciences and what i will need and use in my medical career, it is not so bad i honestly think it is a lot harder then in the states, you are tested completly different, not well prapared USMLE style but that does not make it easy, we have some smart cookies here, i would say, many from Canada where you have to be pretty much perfect to get in medschool and it is not all cake, profs test you on the most detailed info, minute, out of a 1500 page book which you basically have to know front to back, and you do not have any additional resources (besides your friends) and it is all pretty much self study, of course, cause most do not pay attention in class since most teaachers are extreemly difficult to even understand. let alone i am still pushed in my education, so for the amount of money i am paying the crap i have to deal with here, education.....i have to say i atleast get but only cause i try and want it.

in regards to your question should i stay a year or go, it all depends on the type of person you are and what you want and what you can tolerate. positive or always pessmistic. i was kind of in your siduation and i decided that no matter where i go the only thing that will make me a doctor will be my determination. good luck in your decision :D

[bckwood]

and i will not have to be here for my clinicals.

Do we go to differant schools? You can do half of your 4th year in outside clinicals. That means, unless your transfering, that you are doing 1.5 years of clinicals here in Poznan.

[whoops]

What would you do wait an extra year or go to Polish school?
If you had a choice between going to Polish med school or instead waiting an extra year and going to American school or worst case scenario St Georges or Ross.. What would you do wait an extra year or go to Polish school?

If I had a choice -- obviously wait a year for a good American school. Do you have a choice? The problem is most people wait a year and still don't get in .. if you know you have competitive scores why are you posting on this forum? If your not competitive start any of the international programs now, they are all similar academically with various pros and cons. I probably would not choose Poland, because the concept of fairness and truth in business is alien to the Polish administration--and they don't care about the students just the $$$--the real interest is in making the Polish 6 year program work not the English 4/6 year program. I have never heard of Caribbean schools that lie outright about tuition, dorms, classes, etc... all based on what's in their best interest--and they seem to have an interest in making the school work and did not add an English speaking program on just to capture extra $$$s. And, while I do not know of any "rascist" incidents in Poland preference is given to students who have a Polish heritage.

[devildoc8404]

whoops: You really haven't heard about Carib schools that lie outright about tuition, dorms, classes, etc.?

Wow... I'd wager that you haven't spent a ton of time on this forum, have you? Check out the Carib section, there are horror stories galore.

Also -- while I sympathize with what seems to be a yucky experience for you in Poland -- I wonder if it might have more to do with the school itself, than the country...

[whoops]

Since all my comments were directed to problems with the school I'm not sure why you think I don't like the "country". Like any country the administrators act the way they do because the citizens allow them too -- so to that end I do think the problems with the school are problems with the political system itself, which goes back to the citizens.

[bckwood]

Preferance is given to people that have the money!!!! A third of the students at PUMS are from Taiwan. It's just more children from Polish heratiage are interested in returing to Poland.

[whoops]

American/Canadian students with Polish heritage are in the English 4/6 program for the same reason other American/Canadian students are -- they didn't get into a US school. They are given preference by the professors because they speak Polish -- and yes the Tawainese are given preference because they have $$$$s a lot of them should have been kicked out for cheating by now and are allowed to take way to many retakes. Since many of the Tawainese never will take the USMLE I'm not sure the ones who are unqualified are every screened out of the system.

[KluverB]

... Since many [...] never will take the USMLE...

The world does not revolve around the USMLE.

:bored:

Also, cheating is not endemic to PUMS... or to Poland...


# 80% of the country's best students cheated to get to the top of their class.
# More than half the students surveyed said that they don't think cheating is a big deal.
# 95% of cheaters say they were not caught.<br>
# 70% of high school students and 54% of middle school students said they had cheated on an exam in the last 12 months


In a study of medical school students, 87% admitted that they had cheated on tests as undergraduate students and 58% admitted to cheating while in medical school!

Cheating News 10-31-06 (http://www.caveon.com/archive_citn/CNews_10-31-06.htm) etc. Just google for more...

[whoops]

re: Since many of the Tawainese never will take the USMLE I'm not sure the ones who are unqualified are ever screened out of the system.

Is not a reference to the world revolving around it, but a reference to the fact that tests that attempt to control retakes eliminate many students who don't know the material, as opposed to students who have memorized one sentence answers. Albeit the USMLE is not as restrictive as other professions in what they do allow -- the NBME (org who oversees the USMLE) does not restrict the total number of attempts, but does restrict the earliest retake time and the max number per year (3x max in a given year). Here is a quote from the USMLE website. Further many states have the 7 year rule for passing all required tests. Since these students to my knowledge never take a restrictive test at all ... is there ever a time when they are adequately tested.

Cheating does happen everywhere, to different degrees. But, constant reprimands and no concrete action to one particular group is somewhat enabling.

There is a reason why many don't support multiple choice testing over orals -- which have their own downside -- I'm sure they'd even pass those with enough $$$s.

Keeping students in a school for $$$s without concern for quality says something about the school itself.

[punjabi]

Hey whoops can you tell us a little about yourself, I mean for how long have you been attending PUMS and what program are you taking? By the look of your posts and the fact that you joined joined last month it seems like you are on a crusade to crucify PUMS, or at least kind of (no hard feelings dude :)).

Also, did you guys notice the new (and empty) "Hope Medical Institute" sub-thread... haha what's that crap doing here?!

[whoops]

Read the previous threads and posts from other people ... i'm not crucifying anyone just agreeing with what has already been said ... do you want it sugar coated i'm not the one to ask ...

It's all been said -- it's not nice, pleasant or fair, but sure Poznan will eventually give students a degree if they finish the program and sure if you work at it you may even get licensure somewhere someday

Of late Poznan has most notably had a significant increase in tuition despite a policy that says they will not increase over a defined % and has told a significant number of students they may not pass the next year ... would people rather know what goes on there before or after they get there ... bring $$$s and it doesn't really matter who I am ... call administration ... you can verify anything I've said without asking me direct... don't shoot the messenger

p.s. sorry the truth offends

[punjabi]

FYI, I think I've read all the threads related to PUMS. About the max percentage increase in tuition. Is that assumption based on the value of the z's or $'s, cos if the school decides to charge a certain amount of z's and then TRANSLATES that tuition into $, then if they increase the tuition by X z's which may be equal to a raise of say 5% it will not necessarily mean a 5% increase in $, regarding the fact that the Z's increase in value while the $'s constantly falling.

However, if this is not the case then YES, it's very, very UNFAIR.

Would you (all) still agree that Poznan is the best place after JA and on about the same level as Warsaw? Overall I get the impression that's it's a good university. And hey whoops, for how long have you been attending PUMS?

[whoops]

The change to now require euro instead of dollars, and the increase it causes, does not offend me ... the additional increase over the %agreed does.

PUMS in my opinion is now 2nd to both JG and Warsaw ... for overall quality .. if you read the post on Warsaw you know that it is getting a lot of positive reviews despite the fact that it wasn't even considered close to Poznan at one time. The administration in Poznan has an attitude problem that seems alien to even other parts of Poland. But, it still rates above Lodz, from the reviews here.

The other major deteriment to this school is the "look the other way" policy towards cheating by a select group who have been continually told they can not bring camera phones and other electronic devices to exams. Right now they do bring major $$$s to the school and that seems to be what rules --

Do you only ask people you disagree with personal info ... I believe your posts says newbie too.

[punjabi]

Do you only ask people you disagree with personal info ... I believe your posts says newbie too.

Well people usually don't take offense when asked for how long they have studied at a certain institution. I've asked you this question throughout my previous posts, but you keep dodging it. Don't you agree that the time spent down there is very relevant; i reckon info from someone who's been down there for say 4 years is (probably) more accurate than someone who's been living there for a few months, or perhaps dropped out/got kicked out after a while, am I wrong? I mean if you find this to be an offensive question then just say so... I just thought you missed it/forgot to answer when I asked in my first post.

Newbie, no pooh pooh, why do you think am asking questions like how is PUMS compared to JAG/Warsaw?! I'm still in the process of applying and I'm just trying to get as much information as I can, and making sure that the little info I know is accurate and correct. If you, for some reason, don't agree with something I will post my opinion and/or question other users. I will never simply say "You are wrong. I'm right. Period.". We're on the same side ;).

[whoops]

The world does not revolve around the USMLE.

:bored:

Posted this early today -- but it seems to have disappeared, or I'm just not seeing it, so here it is again without the link: The world does not revolve around the USMLE, but the 4 year program at PUMS does, or so administration has represented that it does.
"In 1993, the English Division with English as the language of instruction was created for international students starting in 1993 with the 4-Year M.D. Program based entirely on the American curriculum and the requirements of the U.S.M.L.E. system." .... "The four-year M.D. program in English at Poznan University is intended, among other things, to qualify its students to comply successfully with these procedures (ECFMG-ACGME), which are constantly under review and subject to change." ... "A 6-Year Program in English based on the Polish/European model followed this, a year later."

[chexpool]

guys i am in one week shy of being a 3rd/4 year at PUMS; here is my humble opinion. its not the worst in the world, but before making any decisions come to these schools and decided for your self, about the city, the school, and poland. Also try asking the upper years about pooh pooh rather then eager fresh students, i was once optimistic about poznan too... now i just want me degree and never to return to poland. GL

[bckwood]

i was once optimistic about poznan too... now i just want me degree and never to return to poland. GL


Amen to that, and for all you optomistic people that are argueing among each other about PUMS.....check my previous posts. I was the same way......things change when you find out the reality of the way things work here.

[Narcan]

Yup it has worked well for me. But I would have done something different if I was younger. I married a Polish girl so I guess I will have to visit, would never return otherwise. I did enjoy the chance to live in Europe and the cheap travel while here. Gone in 24 days, not that I am counting.

[StudentMed]

Hi guys i was born in an ex-comunist country.. and i know all youare talking i think even in my country is worse than in poland because they are part of EU... we aren;t even close. The point i wanted to make is that my main concern is to go to poland spend 4 years of my life studying my *** off, at the end of which i will indept for about 100k if not more, and after that not being able to practice medicine... I understand that there are alot of barriers (exams and what not) but can i practice medicine in north america? My biggest concern is to suffer for 4 years just to comeback and to know that my degree is USELESS...
I know if i went here in canada or US to MD it would be easier to get in.... but i don;t think the odds are in my favour....
I am now what ex communism is about (corruption, disorganization, costumer service is none existant, bribes, etc) But my options are limited...
So is Poland a valuable way to become a doctor?

[chexpool]

In response to your question, Polish schools are the cheapest way that i know or have heard of to get an accredited medical degree in the United States, Canadian, and Europe. its more expensive now btw, but still nothing i have heard of is even close. Currently only UJ, is accredited in all 50 states and PUMS is soon to follow. As for europe and Canada the schools are accredited through out. So are polish schools a Value MD, yes in this respect the are GL.

ps. the extra 15k a year maybe worth it somewhere else...