The University of the Future for Professional Students

[R. A. Sosa, DDS,MS,PhD,MS]

To Whom It May Concern:

I have a Doctor of Dental Surgery degree (DDS), a Masters of Science in Neuroscience, a Masters of Science in Psychoanalysis, a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology and another Ed.D in Counseling Psychology. I am a Clinical Child Psychologist and Neuropsychologist. I wish to dedicate my life to Teaching and Research with Children which have Autism, ADD, epilepsy, Cerebral Palsy. A Neuropsychologist studies brain activities in Children with Congenital, Developmental, or Acquired Behavioral Disorders. I went to apply for a teaching position at a Medical School Department of Pediatrics. I lost out, because the other candidate had a Medical degree
(MD). Eventhough, I had 100x more experience and knowledge. I went to apply to Medical School within Continental United States. The Tuition was ridiculous and they would not recognize non of my other Doctoral classes which I obtained in US schools (Like if I were a Freshman again). I am looking for a University which could provide me my MD degree, taking into consideration all of my present degrees and past experience. I do not seek Licensure with my Medical Degree, just by having an MD helps me in career advancement. If The IUHS helps me achive this, I believe that is performing an excellent service. I went to London and received a Doctor of Science in Medicine (D.Sc. Med), which is not accepted in the US. I have two offers waiting to be Head of Pediatric Neuropsychiatry and Neuropsychology Research Dept as soon as I get my MD degree. Again, if IUHS helps me achieve that. It has definitely served a great purpose. I have been around the Healthcare field for a long time. It is not the school , but the student which makes a good Physician. Sometimes, like in my case, when you apply to some Med Schools (especially in the US). They do not like to see a Freshman with so many degrees. I am applying for a foreign school that would take my PhD'S , D.Sc., and Masters (including my past experience) to get my MD degree.:p

[Genossa maximillian]

Wow! You have a whole bunch of nice degrees on your belt.
:cool:

[dt]

Let's hope your degrees werent from schools like this one?



;)

[dt]

... I am applying for a foreign school that would take my PhD'S , D.Sc., and Masters (including my past experience) to get my MD degree.:p


well, let us know which reputable med schools would give you credit for past experience?

[Chemist_11]

I don't quite understand how you intend on seeking career advancement with an MD, which isn't even good enough for you to qualify for licensure? :rolleyes:

[AUCMD2006]

I don't quite understand how you intend on seeking career advancement with an MD, which isn't even good enough for you to qualify for licensure? :rolleyes:


its often done by PhDs, nutritionists, chiros, pods, and dentists to make them more "marketable" with no intention of practicing they think it is ok to just basically buy a degree to attarct patients oir advance their carreers. just think about seeing a chiropractor who is an "MD" but "chooses" to practice chiropractic medicine or a nutritionist who has a nice paper freshly printed "MD" on it and how much more weight their advice carries? it is against the law in some states to say you have an MD if you aren't licensed.

it is wrong because it dilutes the inate value that the degree has, it is already being diluted and attacked by PA's, NP's and now DPN's! getting a MD degree has inate meaning to it.

also as far as these short cur degrees, there was a rash of them in the 90's from russian universities with dentists gettingf in trouble for it. if the degree is for academic purposes then it is just as important to come from a reputable source, if they just want a piece of paper then it is a sad day in the teaching profession that it is willing to accept it

better question is where are the current degrees from? i can go online now and in 2 weeks i can be a MD, DDS, PhDx3.... i am just asking because DDS to the others is such a drastic change that i question if these degrees are from sources similar to iuhs that grant "life" experience and such

[Scott1981]

To Whom It May Concern:

I have a Doctor of Dental Surgery degree (DDS), a Masters of Science in Neuroscience, a Masters of Science in Psychoanalysis, a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology and another Ed.D in Counseling Psychology. I am a Clinical Child Psychologist and Neuropsychologist. I wish to dedicate my life to Teaching and Research with Children which have Autism, ADD, epilepsy, Cerebral Palsy. A Neuropsychologist studies brain activities in Children with Congenital, Developmental, or Acquired Behavioral Disorders. I went to apply for a teaching position at a Medical School Department of Pediatrics. I lost out, because the other candidate had a Medical degree
(MD). Eventhough, I had 100x more experience and knowledge. I went to apply to Medical School within Continental United States. The Tuition was ridiculous and they would not recognize non of my other Doctoral classes which I obtained in US schools (Like if I were a Freshman again). I am looking for a University which could provide me my MD degree, taking into consideration all of my present degrees and past experience. I do not seek Licensure with my Medical Degree, just by having an MD helps me in career advancement. If The IUHS helps me achive this, I believe that is performing an excellent service. I went to London and received a Doctor of Science in Medicine (D.Sc. Med), which is not accepted in the US. I have two offers waiting to be Head of Pediatric Neuropsychiatry and Neuropsychology Research Dept as soon as I get my MD degree. Again, if IUHS helps me achieve that. It has definitely served a great purpose. I have been around the Healthcare field for a long time. It is not the school , but the student which makes a good Physician. Sometimes, like in my case, when you apply to some Med Schools (especially in the US). They do not like to see a Freshman with so many degrees. I am applying for a foreign school that would take my PhD'S , D.Sc., and Masters (including my past experience) to get my MD degree.:p

so you basically want to buy a degree :roll:. what you want to do should be illegal if it isnt already.

[Genossa maximillian]

Either he is joking or he is bluntly honest about his intentions. :shock:

[Chemist_11]

Either he is joking or he is bluntly honest about his intentions. :shock:

I do hope it is a joke - I wonder where the other degrees are from? :rolleyes:

[Chemist_11]

Btw, if it is an MD you are looking for, Skippers Medical University has a fast track 6 week MD course ...

[zarkosy]

I don't quite understand how you intend on seeking career advancement with an MD, which isn't even good enough for you to qualify for licensure? :rolleyes:

Do some research before you post dude. There are licensed IUHS grads who are practicing in states like GA, IL, WA, AZ, MD, etc If you do some good research, you will be able to find them.

You can cry all you want on these websites but the fact is that this school will continue to exist forever like it has for the past 8 years. They now have branches in Dubai and India. The US is not the only country in the world to practice dude. Many western countries like Australia, European nations, New Zealand, UK accept online basic science curriculum of OUM and IUHS. As long as the grads pass the local licensing exams and get trained in a residency, they will be allowed to practice in those countries.

All 50 states will not ban this school or any others that offer this type of education. Many states have acute shortage of doctors where US grads and even some of the top Carib school grads will not go. This is a fact that cannot be denied. Most people who post on these websites are urban people who probably never lived in remote rural towns in the US. Besides, this is the future, like it or not. Better get used to it as US schools have to adapt, if not now then in the distant future, due to the cost effectiveness both to the school and the student.

In the future, you may even see migration out of the US to countries like Australia, UK, etc US is in almost 10 trillion $ debt and China and India are rising. So this time, the US recovery may not be so easy as it was in the previous recessions or depressions. The world has changed a lot in the past 10 years.

So dont assume that everyone who goes to this school wants to practice in the US. Even if they want, there will always be states that will let them in.

Look at these articles that prove some of my points above:

Using Distance Learning to Provide Medical Education to Non-traditional Students (http://easteadjr.org/guest.html)

ACADEMIC MEDICINE - Abstract: Volume 82(12) December 2007 p 1158-1162 Strategies for Increasing the Physician Workforce: The Oregon Model for Expansion. (http://www.academicmedicine.org/pt/re/acmed/abstract.00001888-200712000-00010.htm;jsessionid=LLpMQmNThJDNLHLpPBhSTy743QqhY NLnlq8h7znYsGWq9tXTcnZp!670793751!181195628!8091!-1)

[zarkosy]

Well, what do ya know, apparently there is a US med school that offers an Independent Study i.e. online program in MD:

Ohio State University College of Medicine

However, they appear to have addressed the anatomy part of the distance education basic sciences program by requiring the students to come on-campus for 14 weeks. IUHS requires 4 weeks and OUM requires 8 weeks on campus but I have no idea if it is to do anatomy labs or just for introductory classes to basic or clinical medicine. OUM requires students to attend at the start and IUHS at the end i.e. last block.

IUHS and OUM need to do what OSUCM did if they want to be taken seriously by medical boards. Any school with a PBL system that addresses this issue will be the king of foreign med schools that offer such a basic sciences program.

Well, at least now the people talking outa jealousy, anger, etc on this website will know that there will be at least 1 state in the US that will license IUHS/OUM graduates and that is Ohio. There are other states also for those who care to find out.

PS: I'm not a med student. I am exploring all med schools including IUHS, OUM and others in the Carib. Anyone who wants to go to Carib or a foreign school should do their own hard research before simply believing whatever people post here and this includes my own posts here.

[R. A. Sosa, DDS,MS,PhD,MS]

I received my Bachelors in Neuroscience and my Doctor in Dental Surgery from New York University College of Dentistry, My PhD in Clinical Psychology from University of Miami and a Masters in Neuroscience and Education from Columbia University, Teachers' College and a Masters in Psychoanalysis from Columbia University, along with two years in Child Psychiatry from the Medical School. So, as you can see, my degrees are not bogus and are from well known universities. This is the answer for all of those judging me of trying to purchase a degree or saying that I graduated from bogus university. I do not wish to purchase an MD, but would like some credit for my previous studies.:rolleyes:

[diogenes]

Do some research before you post dude. .........Many western countries like Australia, European nations, New Zealand, UK accept online basic science curriculum of OUM and IUHS. As long as the grads pass the local licensing exams and get trained in a residency, they will be allowed to practice in those countries...............
Currently an IUHS graduate who did the entirety of their basic sciences online is most unlikely to gain registration in the U.K. if they fully disclose this to the GMC - see Section 2 on this page:
GMC | Acceptable primary medical qualification (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/registration_applications/join_the_register/acceptable_primary_medical_qualification.asp)
It was possible, but following various local changes of attitude and the St. Christopher's affair it is not.
Have you found some other European countries which will accept the online course?

[jp9094]

To whom it may concern;

I am in a similar position, but do want to get licensed. No reputable school will accept any transfer credits unless they were done as an enrolled medical student. There is a 'dodge' if you will. If you enroll in an Oral and Maxillo facial surgery residency in the US they will give you a medical degree in as little as 17 months!! I know this will shock some on this web site, but they can check it out themselves. I believe the UHMS (sp?) in Antigua has been written about a number of times on this site, so you can look it up yourself.

[diogenes]

... I went to apply for a teaching position at a Medical School Department of Pediatrics. I lost out, because the other candidate had a Medical degree(MD). Eventhough, I had 100x more experience and knowledge.
It's impossible for any of us to judge fairly whether or not you've been hard done by in this instance: we know so little detail of the circumstances.
Of course our profession and academe often behave in self-serving and protectionist ways (like any professional group or trade union for that matter). Custom and practice and simple academic inertia can sometimes disadvantage the perfect candidate. So if the only reason you lost out was the lack of a diploma and not the specific detailed clinical knowledge, experience and legal/ethical rights and responsibilities that go with it - then I'm sure most here would deplore that.
I went to apply to Medical School within Continental United States. The Tuition was ridiculous and they would not recognize non of my other Doctoral classes which I obtained in US schools (Like if I were a Freshman again). I am looking for a University which could provide me my MD degree, taking into consideration all of my present degrees and past experience. I do not seek Licensure with my Medical Degree, just by having an MD helps me in career advancement.Personally, like some previous posters, I'm not in favour of simply giving people a bye because some course done in the past appears to be the same or similar to part of an MD course. There is usually quite a lot of additional material And, as AUCMD2006 said earlier it also "dilutes the value" and trust in the MD degree.
I can see one way round the problem for those, like yourself, who feel aggrieved by what may seem over-scrupulous regulations. You could be allowed to accelerate your MD courses not by exemptions, but by taking the exams in those subjects at an early stage without following the whole course. Unfortunately I haven't, so far, heard of anyone offering to do this: people seem to be demanding exemption as of right.
By the way, unlike some on VMD who display a compulsively antediluvian attitude, I have no problem with the principle of distance learning: I would like to see well-run, accredited and quality assured courses with up to 90% of the basic sciences following this method.
....I went to London and received a Doctor of Science in Medicine (D.Sc. Med), which is not accepted in the US.....Which chartered U.K. university awarded your D.Sc.?
It was this bit of your post which took me aback (and others no doubt). It did rather sound as if you had gone on a shopping trip, little further than Heathrow Airport, to one of our all-too-common and thriving diploma mills. In which case surely you can't have been surprised that it was "not accepted". If I've misunderstood that, and it was a legitimate university you must still have known (or could easily have found out) that it was not going to be an acceptable alternative to an MD.
It is not the school , but the student which makes a good Physician. I am amazed at how often this mantra is repeated on ValueMD - usually by those a lot less experienced, qualified and senior than yourself. If people seriously believe that the school has no value in the educational process that "makes a good physician" (which is what the statement implies), then I am deeply saddened that so many appear not to have had any previous encounters with inspiring teachers. No, a good teacher cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear: but she can do all sorts of wonderful things, like bring out potential that would otherwise have lain dormant, improve the average student, and render the good student outstanding to suggest but a few.
However, I know that in truth most people say this kind of thing here more out of forlorn hope and self-justification than any real expectation.

[Chemist_11]

Do some research before you post dude. There are licensed IUHS grads who are practicing in states like GA, IL, WA, AZ, MD, etc If you do some good research, you will be able to find them.

Don't be so pedantic, you know exactly what I mean - degrees from institutions such as IUHS are not worth the paper they are written on.

[Genossa maximillian]

The thing I have an issue with DL basic sciences is anatomy, not the same, you don't get that 3-d perspective of the human body.

[Genossa maximillian]

Don't be so pedantic, you know exactly what I mean - degrees from institutions such as IUHS are not worth the paper they are written on.

Well, that depends chemist, of course your opinion is just that, your opinion because for the folks who completed the program and are licensed in a few states it has a great value since they proved to be able to compete and debunk some myths hence proving some people wrong.

[Chemist_11]

Indeed it is my opinion, an opinion I will stick with. I won't argue the toss over why I think schools such as IUHS should no longer be in existance, as we have all heard those arguments ten times over. I do believe that there is a wealth of information about this school (and schools alike) in circulation which will allow individuals to make their own informed descisions.

[Genossa maximillian]

Indeed it is my opinion, an opinion I will stick with. I won't argue the toss over why I think schools such as IUHS should no longer be in existance, as we have all heard those arguments ten times over. I do believe that there is a wealth of information about this school (and schools alike) in circulation which will allow individuals to make their own informed descisions.

Agreed :cool:

[windsorMD]

why not give Windsor's HCP Program a try ?

[Genossa maximillian]

why not give Windsor's HCP Program a try ?

Interesting, at least it requires some physical attendance.

[cdm1106]

chemist you bio says you are an 18 y/o medical student, is that true?

[Chemist_11]

Yes I am indeed

[zarkosy]

Once again, baseless talk or gossip is just that..gossip not worth ones time. One has to prove their point if they post something or make it very clear at the start of the post that the following is just their opinion and not based on factual information by any means.

Don't be so pedantic, you know exactly what I mean - degrees from institutions such as IUHS are not worth the paper they are written on.

[Chemist_11]

As I said Zarkosy, people will arrive at their own conclusions about this school. Now if you don't mind, i'm off to my physical campus for an endocrinology lecture.

[cdm1106]

chemist,
as an 18y/o undergrad student I doubt you have agreat deal of experience, maybe once you have more exposure to alteranitave learning methods, and healthcare itself you will change your mind. I am not saying IUHS is perfect, but if they are producing graduates who successfully pass USMLE exams, who are you to say they are not good enough?? the USMLE's are the standard of measurement for doc's in the US. So If IUHS Grads are passing these standardized exams, what's the problem? I agree with MG with the gross anatomy, that's one thing they are lacking but the school has made good anatomy lectures.

once you realize that people can learn in a variety of ways, telovidieo conferancing my not seem so ridiculous.

[lswiltshire]

The fact that chemist is an as an 18y/o undergrad student means nothing. His A level qualifications indicate that he is qualified to be a medical student in the British system. He needs no more experience or exposure to what ever learning methods you are expousing to be able to make a decision about what is really a very bad medical school. He no doubt is attending a proper medical school, and therefore understands what a decent medical school and quality medical education is about.

I taught at IUHS and I am telling the world that it a ridiculous place as medical schools go. Because IUHS Grads are passing standardized exams, does not make the school a proper institution of learning. Medical education is far more than passing the USMLE exam. Anyone with a whisper of commonsense can pass USMLE especially when you are well verses in “alteranitave learning methods” and “telovidieo conferancing.” The IUHS way is to maximize profits by not providing proper facilities , faculty etc inter aliaque.

[zarkosy]

Cdm, often the human brain is not fully developed at 18, it takes time and life experience. This is why the American model of education is better than the UK and others because it allows the individual to grow as a person before they enter any professional field i.e. Medicine, Dentistry, Law, etc

The UK system has to spoon feed their future professionals because they are fresh out of high school and like in any teenager, often the raging hormones are in control rather than their own self. So it is often difficult for someone at that age to realize things that are beyond their narrow view of the world. Again, life experience will slowly change some things as they and their brain grow to their full potential.

The other side of the independent study pathway in basic sciences issue that no one seems to offer on this forum is as follows:

In my view, a person who is capable of learning and passing all the licensing exams via the independent study pathway is more well prepared for life as a doctor than some 18 yr old who has to be spoon fed all the material so that they can go back home and do the homework given to them.

As a doctor you have to be prepared to be a life long self learner because you will not have anyone to spoon feed you once you are out of med school. The PBL independent study pathway, besides teaching the basic sciences effectively, will also make the student a self learner without relying just on what is taught in a class room.

People try to argue that you cannot learn anatomy or any other subject in medicine on your own. On the other hand, I think this can also be said for on-campus or integrated pathway learning. I mean, how many people who sit in a class room truly come out of the class saying "yes, I got all of that, am ready for the exam now"? How many people truly believe that they learned where a particular muscle or nerve is in the body after spending few hours each week with 6-8 other students around a cadaver? I would like an answer for this one from the self appointed medical education experts on this forum who mostly post only one side of this issue. It would be interesting to get the views of 3rd year residents (who obviously have been out of basic sciences anatomy lab for a few years by now) and practicing physicians on this issue. Do they remember their anatomy labs and lectures or do they actually remember what they studied on their own for their exams?

In my opinion, there is just one thing that is essential in both these models: self study. You can go to every lecture and lab on campus but if you dont study and learn the material, you will not pass the exams. So anyone who knows their stuff and passes the USMLE exams is and should be considered as an equal to any grad from an integrated pathway curriculum.

I think those people who enroll in the independent study pathway and do not study or are not capable will not pass the USMLEs & thus they are filtered out anyway. This also happens in the integrated pathway curriculum.

I think both methods work, but as Genossa mentioned somewhere, it has to be done responsibly. There should be good quality assurance program in place and yes, although the anatomy labs may or may not help, it would be good for the students who havent been in healthcare, prior to enrollment, to at least see a cadaver.

[zarkosy]

The fact that chemist is an as an 18y/o undergrad student means nothing. His A level qualifications indicate that he is qualified to be a medical student in the British system. He needs no more experience or exposure to what ever learning methods you are expousing to be able to make a decision about what is really a very bad medical school. He no doubt is attending a proper medical school, and therefore understands what a decent medical school and quality medical education is about.

I taught at IUHS and I am telling the world that it a ridiculous place as medical schools go. Because IUHS Grads are passing standardized exams, does not make the school a proper institution of learning. Medical education is far more than passing the USMLE exam. Anyone with a whisper of commonsense can pass USMLE especially when you are well verses in “alteranitave learning methods” and “telovidieo conferancing.” The IUHS way is to maximize profits by not providing proper facilities , faculty etc inter aliaque.


IUHS may be a ridiculous place and you may or may not be an ex professor(?) of IUHS, the fact is that both methods work well although they are not for everyone. Now, as people who have done good research know, ex IUHS professors or employees are now involved in other similar ventures like OUM, VCM and the new one called AMU in Philipines. So there is nothing to prove if you are genuine or not.

Besides, I didnt think that respectable and genuine professors had so much time on their hands to be posting on forums like these unless of course they have something to gain!!

"Anyone with a whisper of commonsense can pass USMLE" - amazing claim, please tell this to all the residency PDs and those who actually took this exam and passed it!

[lswiltshire]

Cdm, often the human brain is not fully developed at 18, it takes time and life experience.
PLEASE SUPPORT YOUR OPINION WITH STATISTICS AND RELEVANT STUDIES.



I heard an American Dean say that too and then was amazed when the 18 year old in his class beat everyone going and coming, and ACED his exam with 100%.

This is why the American model of education is better than the UK and others because it allows the individual to grow as a person before they enter any professional field i.e. Medicine, Dentistry, Law, etc

SO THEN ALL THE DOCTORS TRAINED IN THE BRITISH SYSTEM ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE INFERIOR TO USA TRAINED DOCTORS?
PLEASE SUPPORT YOUR OPINION WITH STATISTICS AND RELEVANT STUDIES.

The UK system has to spoon feed their future professionals because they are fresh out of high school and like in any teenager, often the raging hormones are in control rather than their own self. So it is often difficult for someone at that age to realize things that are beyond their narrow view of the world. Again, life experience will slowly change some things as they and their brain grow to their full potential.

HAVE YOU BEEN EDUCATED IN THE UK SYSTEM? I DON’T THINK SO. SO YOU CANT SPEAK ABOUT IT. THERE IS NO SPOON FEEDING IN THE BRITISH SYSTEM.

I WENT TO A BRITISH MEDICAL SCHOOL & I HAVE TAUGHT IN SEVERAL AMERICAN TYPE MEDICAL SCHOOLS. I CAN TELL YOU OF THE PROS AND CONS OF EACH SYSTEM

YOUR POST DOES NOT INDICATE THAT YOU ARE REALIZING THINGS BEYOND YOUR NARROW VIEW OF THE WORLD

YOUR POST DOES NOT INDICATE THAT ALL OF YOUR LIFE EXPERIENCES HAS CAUSED YOUR BRAIN TO GROW TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL.

The other side of the independent study pathway in basic sciences issue that no one seems to offer on this forum is as follows:

In my view, a person who is capable of learning and passing all the licensing exams via the independent study pathway is more well prepared for life as a doctor than some 18 yr old who has to be spoon fed all the material so that they can go back home and do the homework given to them.

AS YOU SAID THAT IS YOUR VIEW. YOU OBVIOUSLY CALL PASSING ON THE EXPERIENCES OF THE TEACHER SPOON FEEDING – it is not!
THERE IS ROOM FOR INDEPENDENT STUDY—BUT SUPERVISION IS NEEDED.

WHY ARE YOU LOOKING DOWN ON 18 YEAR OLD?
WHO TOLD YOU HE HAS BEEN SPOONFED?
DO YOU REALIZE THAT HIS A LEVEL QUALIFICATIONS SURPASS THE VOLUME OF MATERIAL YOU COVER IN YOUR BSc IN THE USA IN EACH SUGJECT AREA?

YOU ARE ADJUDICATING WITHOUT A SOUND KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACTS SIR.
As a doctor you have to be prepared to be a life long self learner because you will not have anyone to spoon feed you once you are out of med school. The PBL independent study pathway, besides teaching the basic sciences effectively, will also make the student a self learner without relying just on what is taught in a class room.

ARE YOU A DOCTOR?
ARE YOU SAYING THAT ALL THE EMMINENT BRITISH TRAINED DOCTORS WHO STARTED MED SCHOOL AT AGE 17-18 ARE NOT LIFE LONG LEARNERS AND HAVE ONLY RELIED ON WHAT IS TAUGHT IN THE CLASSROOM?
ARE YOU SAYING THAT AFTER 30 YEARS AS A DOCTOR I AM NOT A LIFE LONG LEARNER? HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT I AM READING DAILY WITHOUT SPOONFEEDING?
YOUR LOGIC IS SKEWED


I think both methods work, but as Genossa mentioned somewhere, it has to be done responsibly. There should be good quality assurance program in place THERE WAS NONE WHEN I TAUGHT AT IUHS ALTHOUGH THE FOUR OF US WERE GOOD TEACHERS
and yes, although the anatomy labs may or may not help, it would be good for the students who havent been in healthcare, prior to enrollment, to at least see a cadaver.

HOW WILL A PERSON WHO HAS NOT BEEN IN HEALTHCARE PRIOR TO ENROLLMENT BE BETTER OF BY SEEING A CADAVER

Re Anyone with a whisper of commonsense can pass USMLE" - amazing claim, please tell this to all the residency PDs and those who actually took this exam and passed it!

I TOOK AND PASSED USMLE AND I HAVE SEEN MANY UWI GRADS (BRITISH TRAINED) DONE STEPS 1 2 3 WITH JUST THEIR UWI TRAINING WITH NO KAPLAN COURSE ETC.


I HAVE ALSO TAUGHT LESS THAN STELLAR STUDENTS WHO HAVE PASSED THE USMLE

[zarkosy]

Cdm, often the human brain is not fully developed at 18, it takes time and life experience.
PLEASE SUPPORT YOUR OPINION WITH STATISTICS AND RELEVANT STUDIES.

SpringerLink - Journal Article (http://www.springerlink.com/content/254120362243l145/)

I heard an American Dean say that too and then was amazed when the 18 year old in his class beat everyone going and coming, and ACED his exam with 100%.


Which American Dean and which medical school in the US admits 18 year olds. I admit, I do not know whether American medical schools will or will not admit 18 year old students, so please enlighten me, Professor.:) And which student in medical school got 100% in exams. Please prove it:D


This is why the American model of education is better than the UK and others because it allows the individual to grow as a person before they enter any professional field i.e. Medicine, Dentistry, Law, etc

SO THEN ALL THE DOCTORS TRAINED IN THE BRITISH SYSTEM ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE INFERIOR TO USA TRAINED DOCTORS?
PLEASE SUPPORT YOUR OPINION WITH STATISTICS AND RELEVANT STUDIES.

For a so called professor like yourself, it is remarkable that you do not know how to interpret words. Read the sentence again and then post your question. There is more to medicine than passing A levels, which by the way does not teach more than an American BSc. I challenge you to prove this, which I am sure you cannot.

The UK system has to spoon feed their future professionals because they are fresh out of high school and like in any teenager, often the raging hormones are in control rather than their own self. So it is often difficult for someone at that age to realize things that are beyond their narrow view of the world. Again, life experience will slowly change some things as they and their brain grow to their full potential.

HAVE YOU BEEN EDUCATED IN THE UK SYSTEM? I DON’T THINK SO. SO YOU CANT SPEAK ABOUT IT. THERE IS NO SPOON FEEDING IN THE BRITISH SYSTEM.

YES, this is why I know.

I WENT TO A BRITISH MEDICAL SCHOOL & I HAVE TAUGHT IN SEVERAL AMERICAN TYPE MEDICAL SCHOOLS. I CAN TELL YOU OF THE PROS AND CONS OF EACH SYSTEM

Please post the names of the schools and your details so that I can verify with those schools.

YOUR POST DOES NOT INDICATE THAT YOU ARE REALIZING THINGS BEYOND YOUR NARROW VIEW OF THE WORLD

More than mine, it is amazing that a so called medical school professor has the time to post on these websites and furthermore, has not been able to counter my arguments in any intelligent way apart from trying to blindly question what I posted. Any respectable professor who supposedly taught in many medical schools in US/UK and with a broad view of the world, would never even bother to get onto to a website like this in the first place.

This brings me to the point I made in my previous post and, I will have an upper hand in this claim until you post your real name and details for everyone on this forum to verify, that you are an ex IUHS employee who was either fired or resigned and now you are involved with another med school. You are on this website simply to promote your new school and trash the others.


The other side of the independent study pathway in basic sciences issue that no one seems to offer on this forum is as follows:

In my view, a person who is capable of learning and passing all the licensing exams via the independent study pathway is more well prepared for life as a doctor than some 18 yr old who has to be spoon fed all the material so that they can go back home and do the homework given to them.

AS YOU SAID THAT IS YOUR VIEW. YOU OBVIOUSLY CALL PASSING ON THE EXPERIENCES OF THE TEACHER SPOON FEEDING – it is not!
THERE IS ROOM FOR INDEPENDENT STUDY—BUT SUPERVISION IS NEEDED.

WHY ARE YOU LOOKING DOWN ON 18 YEAR OLD?
WHO TOLD YOU HE HAS BEEN SPOONFED?
DO YOU REALIZE THAT HIS A LEVEL QUALIFICATIONS SURPASS THE VOLUME OF MATERIAL YOU COVER IN YOUR BSc IN THE USA IN EACH SUGJECT AREA?

Supervision?? Well, of course, I forgot that you can run to your professor when you are in private practice to ask questions and clear your doubts.:) Once again, TOTALLY false post that an American BSc is not even equal to a UK A-level!!:) I would be interested to find out what Americans have to say about this one. I was educated in both the systems and I know that your claims are basless and outright lies.

YOU ARE ADJUDICATING WITHOUT A SOUND KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACTS SIR.

Why do you assume I'm a male? Is it because you think women cannot challenge your baseless claims on this website?

As a doctor you have to be prepared to be a life long self learner because you will not have anyone to spoon feed you once you are out of med school. The PBL independent study pathway, besides teaching the basic sciences effectively, will also make the student a self learner without relying just on what is taught in a class room.

ARE YOU A DOCTOR?
ARE YOU SAYING THAT ALL THE EMMINENT BRITISH TRAINED DOCTORS WHO STARTED MED SCHOOL AT AGE 17-18 ARE NOT LIFE LONG LEARNERS AND HAVE ONLY RELIED ON WHAT IS TAUGHT IN THE CLASSROOM?
ARE YOU SAYING THAT AFTER 30 YEARS AS A DOCTOR I AM NOT A LIFE LONG LEARNER? HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT I AM READING DAILY WITHOUT SPOONFEEDING?
YOUR LOGIC IS SKEWED

No where in my post did I say that any eminent UK doctor is not good. Once again, read the post properly. In fact, if you read it properly, you will see that I mention that both systems have one thing in common and that is self learning. Without this, you wont win in either system. I never posted anything about what you are reading. My logic is not skewed. If ones mind is skewed then it will of course sound skewed.

I think both methods work, but as Genossa mentioned somewhere, it has to be done responsibly. There should be good quality assurance program in place THERE WAS NONE WHEN I TAUGHT AT IUHS ALTHOUGH THE FOUR OF US WERE GOOD TEACHERS

Well, of course, you would say you were the best teacher. No one admits they are bad. If you really teached there then please post your details so that everyone reading this forum can verify.

and yes, although the anatomy labs may or may not help, it would be good for the students who havent been in healthcare, prior to enrollment, to at least see a cadaver.

HOW WILL A PERSON WHO HAS NOT BEEN IN HEALTHCARE PRIOR TO ENROLLMENT BE BETTER OF BY SEEING A CADAVER

Posting a response to this will be an insult to the so called Professor of Medicine with 30 yrs of experience:) You clearly should know the answer to this.

Re Anyone with a whisper of commonsense can pass USMLE" - amazing claim, please tell this to all the residency PDs and those who actually took this exam and passed it!

I TOOK AND PASSED USMLE AND I HAVE SEEN MANY UWI GRADS (BRITISH TRAINED) DONE STEPS 1 2 3 WITH JUST THEIR UWI TRAINING WITH NO KAPLAN COURSE ETC.

I HAVE ALSO TAUGHT LESS THAN STELLAR STUDENTS WHO HAVE PASSED THE USMLE

Yea, right. Please post your real name, details of where you studied and teached so that I can verify that you are genuine. Until then, it is very easy to hide behind the user name posing as a so called Professor with 30 years of experience:D

[dt]

Yea, right. Please post your real name, details of where you studied and teached so that I can verify that you are genuine. Until then, it is very easy to hide behind the user name posing as a so called Professor with 30 years of experience:D


You have the resources and time to properly verify any personal info he gives you?? Really? Impressive!


In any case, for me, his past posts are sufficient "proof".

[Chemist_11]

The fact that chemist is an as an 18y/o undergrad student means nothing. His A level qualifications indicate that he is qualified to be a medical student in the British system. He needs no more experience or exposure to what ever learning methods you are expousing to be able to make a decision about what is really a very bad medical school. He no doubt is attending a proper medical school, and therefore understands what a decent medical school and quality medical education is about.

Thank you Ls!

(Will continue post when I get back from placement this afternoon)

[zarkosy]

You have the resources and time to properly verify any personal info he gives you?? Really? Impressive!


In any case, for me, his past posts are sufficient "proof".


WOW, so what you are saying is if I say that I have teached at this school or any other school and post any garbage on this website, then you would simply believe it. Amazing:D

Yes, as a prospective med student, I do have the time to investigate. There are plenty of resources out there that can be used if the person in question can post the details.

If you haven't already enrolled in a med school or are looking to apply to one in the Carib or any foreign country, hope you will investigate it yourself from various sources rather than simply believing people on this forum including myself.

As I said in my earlier post, I'm not a med student and I'm looking at all the Carib schools, not just IUHS, SGU, Ross or SABA.

[martlet]

This whole thread started with the multi-degreed Rosa wanting a quick path to an MD by getting credit for previous studies. These days no medical school with licensed grads has advanced standing or gives credit for previous education that was not part of a WHO listed medical school program. You have to have transfereable credits. This includes IUHS - I confirmed this for other reasons - so I don't know why s/he says IUHS will help them achieve an MD unless they are prepared to do the full four years.

[UHSADOC]

MD Degree by itself is worthless, unless you are licensed !
My advice, attend medical school from day 1, no transfer credits will be issued, or accepted by ECFMG, so don't waste any time or money with schools that will issue you transfer......complete the 40+ months, get your MD, pass the USMLEs and go through residency like the rest of us.......
otherwise, keep your day job and forget about it !

[zarkosy]

Oh please, stop the troll. If you dont know the facts, please DONT post garbage here and mislead people. Potential students already know that this forum is full of staff from all the Carib schools trying to get their own marketshare of the MD education business and disguising themselves as students or former students and staff.

The fact is that IUHS does NOT give transfer credits or advanced standing. They have a PBL system which makes it impossible to give you advance standing anyway.

There are more than 35 states that will license IUHS students who complete their MD via the independent pathway program. There are only VERY few people doing their MD this way and those very few are mature students who are either PA, RNs, etc with healthcare industry experience.

Most of their students are on-campus and they now have 4 campuses. Their 2 campuses in India are bound to produce top notch graduates because students of that part of the world are generally very studious, hard working and very thorough. They also have a campus in Dubai.

Another quote by someone who has no idea what he/she is talking about:
"MD Degree by itself is worthless, unless you are licensed!"

UHSADOC (by the way UHSA is on CA disapproved list while IUHS is not), please DONT post garbage here to mislead people. If you check properly, you will find that more than 35 states will license IUHS graduates. If you do their on-campus program then that number goes up above 40 states.

An MD is worth its weight in gold if you have passed all USMLE exams and finish a residency, regardless of where you got it from. IUHS is WHO/IMED listed and ECFMG approved. So it is a real school that offers a real MD program. You may even be surprised to know that not everyone who enrolls in IUHS will pass and there are even drop-outs because they cannot keep up with the rigorous program. It is NOT a fake school by any means. There are a number of non-clinical jobs with a better lifestyle if you have an MD. Some of them do not need any clinical experience either. So if you dont want clinical jobs, you can always go for the non-clinical ones. So please dont mislead people by posting rubbish.

MD Degree by itself is worthless, unless you are licensed !
My advice, attend medical school from day 1, no transfer credits will be issued, or accepted by ECFMG, so don't waste any time or money with schools that will issue you transfer......complete the 40+ months, get your MD, pass the USMLEs and go through residency like the rest of us.......
otherwise, keep your day job and forget about it !

[UHSADOC]

PS Med schools that are NOT on the approval list are the same as being on the disaproved list ;)
Check with Ms. Parks of Cali ;)

Fact is schools that are on the disapproved list "tried" to get approved, but did not....schools like UHSA or SMU.....
Welcome to the Medical Board of California - Medical Schools (http://www.medbd.ca.gov/applicant/schools.html)

Your argument is innately weak,
Cheers ;)

[UHSADOC]

Oh please, stop the troll. If you dont know the facts, please DONT post garbage here and mislead people. Potential students already know that this forum is full of staff from all the Carib schools trying to get their own marketshare of the MD education business and disguising themselves as students or former students and staff.

The fact is that IUHS does NOT give transfer credits or advanced standing. They have a PBL system which makes it impossible to give you advance standing anyway.

There are more than 35 states that will license IUHS students who complete their MD via the independent pathway program. There are only VERY few people doing their MD this way and those very few are mature students who are either PA, RNs, etc with healthcare industry experience.

Most of their students are on-campus and they now have 4 campuses. Their 2 campuses in India are bound to produce top notch graduates because students of that part of the world are generally very studious, hard working and very thorough. They also have a campus in Dubai.

Another quote by someone who has no idea what he/she is talking about:
"MD Degree by itself is worthless, unless you are licensed!"

UHSADOC (by the way UHSA is on CA disapproved list while IUHS is not), please DONT post garbage here to mislead people. If you check properly, you will find that more than 35 states will license IUHS graduates. If you do their on-campus program then that number goes up above 40 states.

An MD is worth its weight in gold if you have passed all USMLE exams and finish a residency, regardless of where you got it from. IUHS is WHO/IMED listed and ECFMG approved. So it is a real school that offers a real MD program. You may even be surprised to know that not everyone who enrolls in IUHS will pass and there are even drop-outs because they cannot keep up with the rigorous program. It is NOT a fake school by any means. There are a number of non-clinical jobs with a better lifestyle if you have an MD. Some of them do not need any clinical experience either. So if you dont want clinical jobs, you can always go for the non-clinical ones. So please dont mislead people by posting rubbish.

BTW 46 states not 40 if you do traditional MD (40 months at UHSA)
Cheers,

[zarkosy]

Yes, I know that being on disapproved list but not being on approved list doesnt mean a thing and you wont get licensed in CA unless you are in the approved list. Only 4 Carib schools are on that list.

I was trying to tell you that at least IUHS is not on the disapproved list because they tell their students in no uncertain terms that states like CA and IN will not license you and should not apply to IUHS if you intend to practice there.

On the other hand, UHSA did apply for CA approval but got denied and never tried to get itself removed from that list.

[UHSADOC]

Don't think once you are dissaproved you can get off the list...but, then again, who really cares....

I doubt Cali checked Bagdad U or Shanghai college......the politics of medicine....I can guarantee that the quality of grads from the caribbean med schools are far suprior than some of the international schools "approved" by Cali.........at least we get USMLE prep and complete 2 years in US ACGME.......and the Basic science courses are taught in english by US Profs....
CA or IN are just trying to "limit" docs with no merit......very silly indeed......

[DOCplucinski]

the difference between those and caribbean schools is that the schools train doctors for the country that they are in, not specifically for the US and Canada. any school in any country that does that is on the california approval list regardless where it is.

and it's not just two states that use the california list either.

[zarkosy]

the difference between those and caribbean schools is that the schools train doctors for the country that they are in, not specifically for the US and Canada. any school in any country that does that is on the california approval list regardless where it is.

and it's not just two states that use the california list either.

True. That's why the CA list doesnt make sense because they will approve of schools somewhere in Kazakhistan but not schools in Carib whose graduates complete their clinicals in US hospitals and train under US licensed physicians. But this is the way things work here. Welcome to the USA.

[Scott1981]

True. That's why the CA list doesnt make sense because they will approve of schools somewhere in Kazakhistan but not schools in Carib whose graduates complete their clinicals in US hospitals and train under US licensed physicians. But this is the way things work here. Welcome to the USA.

thats not what docplucinski meant. what he meant was that cali has an approval list for schools that train specifically students that come back to the united states to practice. they have an approval list for these schools because in all likelyhood, they will see hundreds of these students apply for licensure in their state.

whereas they may only see 1 or 2 grads from the university of kazakhistan every 5 years or so if at all. its a matter of money, they cant deny all the foreign schools without actually going out to do site visits to all of them. at the same time, they dont have the logistics to visit the 1,000 plus worldwide medical schools.

they decided to make this site visit a requirement for the schools that specifically train students that will in all likelyhood come back to the states. these schools will have much more of an impact within the cali healthcare system because they will be dealing with tons of licensure applications from students in these schools.

its easier to just grant blanket approval to all other schools around the world since they probably wont ever see a graduate from over 75% of them.

[DOCplucinski]

thanks scott

[UHSADOC]

The Cali list doesn't make ANY sense anyway you look at it.....
Grads from my class passed all steps of USMLEs on first attempt some over 220, did all rotations in the US, and yet, not approved in Cali......Vs...MD from KAZACHSTAN U....who failed several times, did all rotations in a small remote village if any....no US rotations.....and are considered on the approved list ??? and CAN get a license ??

ECFMG should really step in and regulate this whole mambo jambo of STATE specific "approved schools"......perhaps CARICOM would be the way to go......my take is who regulates ASIAN medical schools ?? Eastern European Shady medical schools etc....???

ECFMG and USMLEs Exams should be enough of a flag to screen MDs....not state approved listings.....that do not make anysense....

[lswiltshire]

perhaps CARICOM would be the way to go......

Id love that UHSADoc, and id love to be involved oh boy oh boy

UHSA would be one of the first to go, but Carribean islands dont care about offshore schools, cause NONE of you guys will be licensed in the islands.

[DOCplucinski]

i think it makes a lot of sense. remember, these doctors coming from other countries still have to pass the USMLE and many of them fail it and never get in. they went to schools who probably do not teach what's going to be on the USMLE and English is probably not their first language.

those two things are working against them right there. so if they are able to overcome those two hurdles, they have to be pretty damn good.

[lifeAgift]

I received my Bachelors in Neuroscience and my Doctor in Dental Surgery from New York University College of Dentistry, My PhD in Clinical Psychology from University of Miami and a Masters in Neuroscience and Education from Columbia University, Teachers' College and a Masters in Psychoanalysis from Columbia University, along with two years in Child Psychiatry from the Medical School. So, as you can see, my degrees are not bogus and are from well known universities. This is the answer for all of those judging me of trying to purchase a degree or saying that I graduated from bogus university. I do not wish to purchase an MD, but would like some credit for my previous studies.:rolleyes:


The easier route to me seems to be doing any 3 of the following..

1. Go into private practice
2. Have a few exceptional treatment outcomes especially related to ADHD, Autism etc...
3. Don't blame vacinnes/imms for the neuro effects you are treating ( BIG PHARMA and the schools they back won't like that)
4. Write a book
5. APPEAR OPRAH

Create your own market value and all the big Academic joints will be courting you. Strategically planned this can be done a lot faster and with less stress than medical school. You can self publish you book for about 1/2 the cost of one year of med school!

[gawtti]

I don't think schools in Kazachstan are graduating physicians for the purpose of coming to the USA to practice. As is the case for most of the Caribbean and English programs in Central and Eastern European schools. I would say < 0.5% of graduating physicians in Kazachstan schools will ever make it to the USA.

The Cali list doesn't make ANY sense anyway you look at it.....
Grads from my class passed all steps of USMLEs on first attempt some over 220, did all rotations in the US, and yet, not approved in Cali......Vs...MD from KAZACHSTAN U....who failed several times, did all rotations in a small remote village if any....no US rotations.....and are considered on the approved list ??? and CAN get a license ??

ECFMG should really step in and regulate this whole mambo jambo of STATE specific "approved schools"......perhaps CARICOM would be the way to go......my take is who regulates ASIAN medical schools ?? Eastern European Shady medical schools etc....???

ECFMG and USMLEs Exams should be enough of a flag to screen MDs....not state approved listings.....that do not make anysense....

[spreebee]

Either he is joking or he is bluntly honest about his intentions. :shock:

He needs his "MD" to get the department head job is how I understood his post...

[lswiltshire]

they went to schools who probably do not teach what's going to be on the USMLE

What are you really saying?

That only folk who go to US schools or offshore Carribean schools are taught what's going to be on the USMLE?

Are you saying that they are not taught the same Basic Sciences that you are taught?

Or are you saying that at US schools or offshore Carribean schools you are told whats on the exam?

You are not making sense. Medicine is Medicine. I was not prepared for the ECFMG exam as it was then called, but passed it very easily because I read the same text books you Americans read (they were no offshore schools then). Why do you folk think that the USMLE is such a killer. I have seen so many substandard students passed it in the last six years. Students that would never be admitted into UWI ever.