Turnover Rate

[Dr Steven Greer]

What percentage of students fail the harder classes - say pharm or path?
Dr. Greer

[azulpanther]

most students that get through the 1st couple of semesters at smu normally pass pharm and path. The attrition rate for anatomy or histo are much higher than pharm or path.

to answer your question i would say around 10% of students fail path II, and around 5% fail pharm. I would say that anatomy and histo are much higher, closer to 20%

[Dr Steven Greer]

thanks again

[raesong]

I agree with Azul, if you are able to pass 2nd Sem...you're good to go! :)

[Future MD | DM erutuF]

I agree with Azul, if you are able to pass 2nd Sem...you're good to go! :)

Not true. The course load in 4th semester is quite intense, and to be able to juggle Path II and Miro II will serve a valuable lesson in time management. Quite a few people who had done well up until 4th semester ended up repeating either Micro or Path, so to say that it's all downhill from 2nd semester is really not a good idea to future students. Study hard, keep the focus, and be prepared to work harder than you have before!

[azulpanther]

Yes the work load is very intense during 4th but look at the numbers. When did your class shrink the most ??? It was def after 1st semester and not after 4th.

[WSUCougar]

to answer your question i would say around 10% of students fail path II, and around 5% fail pharm. I would say that anatomy and histo are much higher, closer to 20%

don't know about path or pharm yet, because I'm not there yet, but.... last semester (1st semester) 70 students failed Gross Anatomy out of 240

[camryllionareMD]

Can't talk about path or pharm yet coz I'm not there, but gross was hard enough, and physio and neuro are too.

Yeah, I'm in the large class too. We did have 72 that either withdrew or failed gross, so about 30% failed. One day when I had nothing better to do I googled the NewYork site visit to SMU and in that particular year they clocked SMU's passing rate up to graduation to be between 60-70%, and the USMLE first time passing rate was in the same range.

For me personally 2nd semester requires much more out of me than 1st; it's like taking 3 gross anatomies all at once. I think that if I can keep up, studying all the lectures everyday, doing questions etc I'll be fine in 3rd. Maybe we'll have less failing this semester coz pple now knew how to study, or maybe not coz it's much harder. We'll see.

[dimipt]

There is a 20% - 25% W or F rate at the classes of SMU as it is for the most reputable educational institutions. Your acceptance is not a Free Pass ticket and you must study and learn so that not only you pass the Step exams but you can also become a good physician so that people can trust their lives to you.

[NYjf12]

i have a question regarding failing a course...when you have to re-take it can it be during the next semester (and 5th pre-clinical semester can have one extra class from having to make one up)? or does failing a class mean that you have to stay a whole extra semester to make up one class?
thanks for any input.

[camryllionareMD]

You only retake what you fail. Say one fails Gross Anatomy, they retake it 2nd semester instead of Physio. So the pple in my 2nd semester class that failed GA would take classes with us from 7.30 til 10.30 or so, then leave for the 1st semester class to take GA while we had Physio. That is referred to as being a "mixed semester". Then I think you're allowed to take one extra class during 5th if you failed only one up to that point. If it's more than one class, then you have to stay on the island 6 semesters. It is frustrating for those it happens to, but you kind of just get back up and do better next time. When you're a 50 yr old MD it'll just be something you look back on.

[AmericanIMG]

I agree with Azul, if you are able to pass 2nd Sem...you're good to go! :)

4th term is by far the most difficult. i think the way the classes are set up there is no way around it.

in my term more ppl failed pharm then pathII as well.

[azulpanther]

Pharm is now broken up into 2 semesters. Pharm I and Pharm II. So the failure rate of pharm has tremendously gone down.

[NYjf12]

thanks a lot for your responses. I just wanted to make sure that if i fail a class (which i don't plan on doing, just saying what if), that i don't have to stay an extra semester because starting fall '08 would be for the '12 match and re-taking a semester would make me (or anyone) just miss it and have to wait around for a year. this way if i did fail a class, besides for being so dissapointed, atleast i don't have to go back for another semester.

[onesolo]

I'm in agreement with American.... I personally believe that Path and Pharm have a lot more people either withdraw or fail than any second semester class. I know that now with the splitting of Pharm it makes it much more likely to pass however, both Path I and Path II can both be tough. I'm not sure of the exact numbers but in my Path I class a few semesters ago almost 50% of the class was failing or had withdrawn going into the shelf.

[camryllionareMD]

I'm in agreement with American.... I personally believe that Path and Pharm have a lot more people either withdraw or fail than any second semester class. I know that now with the splitting of Pharm it makes it much more likely to pass however, both Path I and Path II can both be tough. I'm not sure of the exact numbers but in my Path I class a few semesters ago almost 50% of the class was failing or had withdrawn going into the shelf.
Crap!!! Please give us some pointers so we can be in the percentage that pass :)

[drjohnwebb]

Just study... keep up with material. Path is a lot.. it is easily the hardest class we have had so far and I don't know if it the volume, the teaching or just the material is hard. However,,.. it is very doable..

Pharm now is very easy, just listen in class and all you have to study is the drug names. Psych is not bad at all and micro is a easy ride if you listen and attend reviews.

So.. focus more on Path and you will be ok.. just read your path power points as often as possible. I did it for block 3 and cruised to an easy A. You just have to keep reading it until it clicks.

[Jeep23Guy]

Path is really a breeze once you've memorized Robbins.

Not that I did that, I'm just assuming that's the case.

I agree, though, that path is the class where you really have to keep up the most. When I went through basic science, it was the only 2-semester class. The best way to learn path is through questions. Read the chapters, but then do as many questions as you can find. Then, when you're sick of questions, do a bunch more. That's how I did it and not only did I easily honor the class, I made the shelf my female dog.

[camryllionareMD]

Thanks! That's exactly the kind of advice I need.