Timeline for Licensure and Clinical Spots

[jstern217]

I am a first semester student at another Caribbean medical school and am looking to transfer. Having visited UMHS several weeks ago, I was extremely impressed with everything I saw. The facilities put my school (and many others, I'm sure) to shame. Professor W, who led the tour, did an excellent job and truly represented the school well. I have no fears that this will not pan out. My only issue is with clinicals and licensure. I have some knowledge of the process and I know it's a long line of headaches and bureaucracy for a new school to secure these, but I was wondering if any timeline could be put on them. I know I would be able to transfer in for the May semester (I would be able to take a full slate of classes), but I do not want to act until everything is in place.

Is there any timeline on when clinicals and licensure will be obtained? Are they likely to be obtained in the next week or two? By the start of the May semester? By the end of this year? Any information on this would be greatly appreciated...and if the answer is "We have absolutely no idea," I can live with that as well.

Also, is there any update on the U.S. location for 5th semester?

Thank you very much!

[Sree Cheruku]

Unless they post a list of ACGME-accredited rotations on their website or discuss with you which hospitals they plan to acquire and give you a timeline, it is not wise to seriously consider attending this school.

Despite any promise it may show, the first students to enter a school like this usually get screwed over in terms of clinical rotations.

Another thing is that new schools often do is lie about having Greenbook rotations even when they don't. You must verify everything that you're told by yourself using acgme.org.

[UMHS]

I've delayed replying until I could get you the best estimates of the timeline you requested, jstern217. Let me emphasize that these are estimates only. Since some of the items depend on others completing certain tasks, UMHS is not in complete control of the timeline so please accept this as our best guess and, if we are off by a small amount, be merciful.

By approximatly March 31, we should start announcing clinical sites. We have been carrying on discussions with various teaching hosptials and those conversations are almost ready to bear fruit. Most of the initial sites will be along the East Coast. (We will develop sites in other parts of the US but initially, we are targetting the east.) At about the same time, UMHS should also be able to announce the sites of the fifth semester. You'll notice that I used the plural. If all goes as expected, we will have several sites where the advanced ICM course and the Board Review course can be taken.

We should have ECFMG approval in mid-May. They will be notified when classes actually commence and approval generally takes about 2 weeks to be granted.

At the moment, this is the most precise that I can be. As we get closer and our estimates can be more accurate, I'll let you know.

[nyxtopouli]

Unless they post a list of ACGME-accredited rotations on their website or discuss with you which hospitals they plan to acquire and give you a timeline, it is not wise to seriously consider attending this school.

Despite any promise it may show, the first students to enter a school like this usually get screwed over in terms of clinical rotations.

Another thing is that new schools often do is lie about having Greenbook rotations even when they don't. You must verify everything that you're told by yourself using acgme.org.

I realize we must verify stuff ourselves. I have heard that some places are Greenbook for pediatrics (for example), but not for psych. How specific would you get in verifying this kind of stuff? Would you call the hospitals that are listed?

Just wondering what specific advice you can give...

[lifeAgift]

THANKS UMHS

You just answered some concerns I listed in an email to the University.

Cool

[Sree Cheruku]

I have heard that some places are Greenbook for pediatrics (for example), but not for psych.How specific would you get in verifying this kind of stuff? Would you call the hospitals that are listed?
You don't have to call anyone to verify the accreditation status. Just go to acgme.org/adspublic. You should call the hospital to make sure that your school can rotate through the specific department that you are interested in. For example, Ob/Gyn is Green at Harbor Hospital but only St. Matthews has a contract with that department.




By approximatly March 31, we should start announcing clinical sites. We have been carrying on discussions with various teaching hosptials and those conversations are almost ready to bear fruit. Most of the initial sites will be along the East Coast. (We will develop sites in other parts of the US but initially, we are targetting the east.) At about the same time, UMHS should also be able to announce the sites of the fifth semester. You'll notice that I used the plural. If all goes as expected, we will have several sites where the advanced ICM course and the Board Review course can be taken.
That actually does sound promising for a new school. If you guys manage to pull of Greenbook clinicals this early, you're going to catapult yourself ahead of every other non-NY approved school.

[fruit2o]

By approximatly March 31, we should start announcing clinical sites. We have been carrying on discussions with various teaching hosptials and those conversations are almost ready to bear fruit. Most of the initial sites will be along the East Coast. (We will develop sites in other parts of the US but initially, we are targetting the east.) At about the same time, UMHS should also be able to announce the sites of the fifth semester. You'll notice that I used the plural. If all goes as expected, we will have several sites where the advanced ICM course and the Board Review course can be taken.


Can we still expect the clinical sites to be announced this week?

[IAUPREMED]

Also patiently waiting for clinical and 5th semester announcement!!

[drjohnwebb]

From what I hear... there will be more info coming after the May class starts. Once the school opens, they can get their ECFMG, and annouce their 5th and clinical spots.

They will most likely announce the STATES their clinicals are in, at least for the start, since it is a clinical spot war out there between schools.

Stay tuned until sometime in May.. everyone is waiting..

[IAUPREMED]

This is what I was told also. Somewhere right before the first day of the opening or in that first week is when clinicals and 5th semester will be posted. Very anxious to see the outcome, it is the final deciding factor.

[rokshana]

umm, shouldn't the IMED/ECFMG status be resolved BEFORE a class starts??

[DOCplucinski]

one would hope

[drjohnwebb]

The school has to have its first class in school before they get IMED and ECFMG. This is also a reason they have to wait to announce other things.. because they aren't offically open until they start their first class.

[rokshana]

The school has to have its first class in school before they get IMED and ECFMG. This is also a reason they have to wait to announce other things.. because they aren't offically open until they start their first class.

huh? that makes no sense...those 1st students would just be guinea pigs then...without the ECFMG listing, they would be unable to sit for the Steps...would have thought it was the other way around...they wouldn't have a 1st class start WITHOUT the IMED listing - to ensure that the US students will be eligible for US licensure.

Sure they could have a class start-so long as those students weren't looking to do US residencies...

[drjohnwebb]

Law says you must GRADUATE a IMED school. Even new US med schools do NOT have LCME accreditation until they are open for so long, then they get provisional approval. Same as law schools.. If you start at an unaccreditated school, this is fine.. it just must be approved by the time you graduate.

[IAUPREMED]

does anyone know the guidelines for what it takes for NY approval? I heard they required an actual campus (which UMHS has), a diverse student body, a library, a good curriculum and other minor things. I see UMHS getting the NY approval maybe within a year? They seem to have most of the criteria needed, but maybe someone with more knowledge of the NY approval criteria list can shed some light!

[UMHS]

Dr. Webb is correct. A school must have started classes before it can get IMED listing. There is a reminder on my calendar for May 13th to notify the Ministry of Education so that they can notify FAIMER that UMHS has officially held its first classes. Within a reasonable period of time, you should see the UMHS listing on their website.

There is one minor discrepancy in Dr. Webb's posting and I hope he will not think I am quibbling. He has used the terms accredited, unaccredited and approval in a way that may be confusing. UMHS is accredited by the Government of St. Kitts. What UMHS is currently seeking is listing as an international medical school. (This is the IMED list which used to be maintained by the WHO and will soon be maintained by the University of Copenhagen.) Following this comes approval by the ECFMG. The student's school must have ECFMG approval before students are allowed to take the USMLE. Since UMHS is already accredited, it is simply a matter of time until the other piece falls into place.

[drjohnwebb]

Yes.. I did use my terms incorrectly. I was in a rush since I had a path exam..lol

[UMHS]

If you were going to give an "incorrect" answer, I'd rather that you did it here than on the exam! I hope all went well!

[medschool786]

It's almost the start of the school year.. for the first class of UMHS..when will the announcements of where the fifth semester sites and any clinical spots be announced?

[UMHS]

I don't mean to be flippant but the best answer I can give you is "When the contracts have been signed." We are continuing to negotiate with multiple sites for the 5th semester and will announce the location when the first contract is signed. (We will announce any other sites if and when those contracts are signed.)

While we have signed contracts on some clinical sites, they tend to be limited to specific medical specialties. We have chosen to wait for an announcemnt until we can also list one or more sites with more than a single specialty. Again, those negotiations are ongoing with the sites that we want. We have resisted saying anything about them until the ink is dry on the contract and we will continue to resist until we can give firm information rather than give speculation.

Wjile I certainly understand the curiousity of prospective students, I think you would rather that we post the truth rather than hype.

[dilzmega]

I don't mean to be flippant but the best answer I can give you is "When the contracts have been signed." We are continuing to negotiate with multiple sites for the 5th semester and will announce the location when the first contract is signed. (We will announce any other sites if and when those contracts are signed.)

While we have signed contracts on some clinical sites, they tend to be limited to specific medical specialties. We have chosen to wait for an announcemnt until we can also list one or more sites with more than a single specialty. Again, those negotiations are ongoing with the sites that we want. We have resisted saying anything about them until the ink is dry on the contract and we will continue to resist until we can give firm information rather than give speculation.

Wjile I certainly understand the curiousity of prospective students, I think you would rather that we post the truth rather than hype.

how about buffalo or the upstate area of NY. their is a group of us that want's to know if it is a possibility.

[soontobemd123]

I don't mean to be flippant but the best answer I can give you is "When the contracts have been signed." We are continuing to negotiate with multiple sites for the 5th semester and will announce the location when the first contract is signed. (We will announce any other sites if and when those contracts are signed.)

While we have signed contracts on some clinical sites, they tend to be limited to specific medical specialties. We have chosen to wait for an announcemnt until we can also list one or more sites with more than a single specialty. Again, those negotiations are ongoing with the sites that we want. We have resisted saying anything about them until the ink is dry on the contract and we will continue to resist until we can give firm information rather than give speculation.

Wjile I certainly understand the curiousity of prospective students, I think you would rather that we post the truth rather than hype.

I thought the announcements were going to be made before the first day of classes, atleast where the fifth semester site will be. How long will that take..We were first told it will be announced by march 31, then in april and then in may. Is there a reason these negotiations are taking so long? Is it going to end up being that we have to do our fifth semester in st. kitts? I am just curious, before I apply, its something I would definitely like to know atleast where our fifth sem site is going to be and im sure alot of kids would like to know where their fifthe semester site will take place and also where rotations are going to be...

[DRDR2U]

I thought the announcements were going to be made before the first day of classes, atleast where the fifth semester site will be. How long will that take..We were first told it will be announced by march 31, then in april and then in may. Is there a reason these negotiations are taking so long? Is it going to end up being that we have to do our fifth semester in st. kitts? I am just curious, before I apply, its something I would definitely like to know atleast where our fifth sem site is going to be and im sure alot of kids would like to know where their fifthe semester site will take place and also where rotations are going to be...

NEW SCHOOL,,MANY QUESTIONS NOW HUH,,? WELL THIS IS JUST THE START HURDLES HURDLES AND MORE HURDLES,,,NOTHING WILL MOVE FAST THE EASIEST PART WAS SETTING UP THE SCHOOL,,,NOW THE CONTACTS ARE ANOTHER STORY BUT DO SHOCK ME SHOCK US ALL PLEASE

[UMHS]

Dilzega: "we will continue to resist until we can give firm information rather than give speculation." And if I tell you that the Buffalo/upstate New York area is or is not a possibility, I will have 49 more people asking about the other states. I promise to post our sites as soon as they are firmed up.

SoontobeMD123: I will tell you that we are not making any plans or carrying out any negotiations to hold the 5th semester in St. Kitts. Part of the purpose of the 5th semester is to acquaint students with hospitals and technology in the American healthcare system. We can't do that if we do 5th semester in St. Kitts The only reason we would set up a 5th semester program in St. Kitts would be to accommodate a foreign student who could not get a visa into the United States.

DrDr2U: In Developmental Psychology, they're not referred to as hurdles. They are milestones and, like a developing human, UMHS will pass its milestones when the time is right. When we do, I hope it will NOT shock most people. Based on our past performance, people should EXPECT us to perform. It should only come as a shock if we do not.

[IAUPREMED]

Everything will fall into place, all in due time. I have no doubts! I have personally witnessed the startup of two new carribean schools in the last 4 years and I can tell you this one is EXPONENTIALLY more organized, most professional and more importantly extremely honest than any of them.

[DRIVEN]

okay, but whats the status of information the administration said they would know by this time frame....5th semester....ECFMG....WHO...

not looking to cause trouble....but they said by the start of the semester...

[UMHS]

Nothing has changed from my posting on April 15: "A school must have started classes before it can get IMED listing. There is a reminder on my calendar for May 13th to notify the Ministry of Education so that they can notify FAIMER that UMHS has officially held its first classes. Within a reasonable period of time, you should see the UMHS listing on their website."

[lifeAgift]

For those of us preparing and budgeting for the future cost of MED School, what is the anticipated/approximate tuition for the clinical semesters?

[DRDR2U]

For those of us preparing and budgeting for the future cost of MED School, what is the anticipated/approximate tuition for the clinical semesters?


I WONDER WHEN THIS CLINICAL LIST IS COMING,,I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW FOR MANY REASONS

[IAUPREMED]

i am also getting a little impatient about the clinical list, 5th semester info, financing for semesters 5-10 and how much it will cost

[DOCplucinski]

just curious, why are you so urgent of this information? you are so far away from 5th semester and clinicals, this shouldn't be something you're worried about right now.

as far as i know, UMHS has no students starting or transferring into their clinical program so it's no surprise that they haven't finalized their lists yet. focus on passing your classes and getting through basic science. then you can start thinking about clinicals.

give the school some time, they obviously want their students to progress to their clinical program so they will release the information when it's available.

[IAUPREMED]

yea you do have a good point here. I didnt think of it that way.

[WSUCougar]

just curious, why are you so urgent of this information? you are so far away from 5th semester and clinicals, this shouldn't be something you're worried about right now.

as far as i know, UMHS has no students starting or transferring into their clinical program so it's no surprise that they haven't finalized their lists yet. focus on passing your classes and getting through basic science. then you can start thinking about clinicals.

give the school some time, they obviously want their students to progress to their clinical program so they will release the information when it's available.

they're accepting 5th semester students to start this fall.

I have quite a few class mates here at SMU that are interested to apply into the 4th and 5th program starting this fall, but..... they are waiting to see where 5th is going to be, and where some of the clinical sites are going to be.

[lifeAgift]

just curious, why are you so urgent of this information? you are so far away from 5th semester and clinicals, this shouldn't be something you're worried about right now.


Given the current US economic situation:rolleyes:, whatever it is, it would be prudent of me to have a plan A, B and C regarding financing such a venture.

I do not want to be among those posting in the dozen or more other threads that are screaming about access to loan money.

I'm much older than 25. With age comes wisdom and wisdom dictates that I make a plan based upon concrete information. the information posted on the website is fair but it's not enough info for me to make a 4 year commitment anywhere.

"Basic Science Tuition: $7,800.00 per semester
Clinical Science Tuition: A higher tuition rate applies for the clinical semesters."

"A higher rate of tuition" is cool so long as I know the higher rate before applying.

That's not something I want to wait to 5th semester to find out!:shock:

[rokshana]

Given the current US economic situation:rolleyes:, whatever it is, it would be prudent of me to have a plan A, B and C regarding financing such a venture.

I do not want to be among those posting in the dozen or more other threads that are screaming about access to loan money.

I'm much older than 25. With age comes wisdom and wisdom dictates that I make a plan based upon concrete information. the information posted on the website is fair but it's not enough info for me to make a 4 year commitment anywhere.

"Basic Science Tuition: $7,800.00 per semester
Clinical Science Tuition: A higher tuition rate applies for the clinical semesters."

"A higher rate of tuition" is cool so long as I know the higher rate before applying.

That's not something I want to wait to 5th semester to find out!:shock:


and this is where i think the chaff is separated from the wheat.

while i think that this school, out of all the new schools popping up in the caribbean, will be a successful one (they have been doing everything in an upfront and forthright manner), it would be prudent to look to the more established schools for any guarantees.

Now with the loans crisis occuring, the Title IV schools are, IMHO, the only viable choice in the caribbean. Staffords and GradPlus loans WILL cover the COA at any of these school and while, yeah, it would be nice to pay less for the MD, better to pay more and KNOW you will be able to complete med school (at least from a money standpoint).
Short of the Federal Loans dissappearing (and that is not to say that can't happen), you will not have to worry about getting the money to pay for school.

[trex]

they're accepting 5th semester students to start this fall.

I have quite a few class mates here at SMU that are interested to apply into the 4th and 5th program starting this fall, but..... they are waiting to see where 5th is going to be, and where some of the clinical sites are going to be.


Just out of curiosity, why are SMU students looking to transfer? I noticed that you are pursuing an MBA concurrently with the MD, is that through Davenport U? I am considering pursuing a concurrent MD/MBA and was wondering what the workload looked like. It’s gotta be brutal.

Thanks in advance for your response.

[WSUCougar]

Just out of curiosity, why are SMU students looking to transfer? I noticed that you are pursuing an MBA concurrently with the MD, is that through Davenport U? I am considering pursuing a concurrent MD/MBA and was wondering what the workload looked like. It’s gotta be brutal.

Thanks in advance for your response.

everybody has their own reasons, I can not speak for everybody. Reasons vary from financial aid issues, to clinical spot problems, to Admin issues.

I am pursuing a concurrent MBA in Public Health Administration along with my MD. Its all about time management. Sometimes I get overwhelmed with doing MBA work while I'm trying to study for Block Exams, but I just try to finish my MBA work ahead of time, so that I can just focus on my block exams.

[IAUPREMED]

As per their webpage...very nice...some notice finally of great progress...very exciting!!

"UMHS has established affiliations with a number of teaching hospitals for the full complement of core rotations. Negotiations are on-going, with a significant number of other teaching sites located throughout the U.S., including but not limited to New York, Arizona, Connecticut, Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois, Puerto Rico, and Michigan. "

[lifeAgift]

At first glance I thought those states listed where the actual established sites/ affiliations:-smiley7.

Then I went to the website and reread 2-3x.

Still good news but the comma placement only confirms negotiations not actual, currently, or right this minute contracted sites. So it still leaves one to wonder which "affiliations" have actually been secured.

:DI'm definately appreciating the progress and the disclosure thus far.

Kentucky is quiet affordable.

Puerto Rico might offer an abundance of experience and autonomy.

Illinois and Michigan, to cold and windy for me personally in the winter time. Especially those fronts that come across the lake.

Arizona, hmmm I could see me doing several rotations/clerkships/cores or whatever there, just maybe not in July/August.

Connecticut and Ohio... no comment. Not enough info to make a statement.


:p Yeah I've got preferences, but do trust that I won't let a little geography keep me from this endeavor.

I may be reading to much into the statement or misunderstanding the rules of grammer, So no offense will be taken if I am corrected.:confused:

[WSUCougar]

At first glance I thought those states listed where the actual established sites/ affiliations:-smiley7.

Then I went to the website and reread 2-3x.

Still good news but the comma placement only confirms negotiations not actual, currently, or right this minute contracted sites. So it still leaves one to wonder which "affiliations" have actually been secured.

:DI'm definately appreciating the progress and the disclosure thus far.

Kentucky is quiet affordable.

Puerto Rico might offer an abundance of experience and autonomy.

Illinois and Michigan, to cold and windy for me personally in the winter time. Especially those fronts that come across the lake.

Arizona, hmmm I could see me doing several rotations/clerkships/cores or whatever there, just maybe not in July/August.

Connecticut and Ohio... no comment. Not enough info to make a statement.


:p Yeah I've got preferences, but do trust that I won't let a little geography keep me from this endeavor.

I may be reading to much into the statement or misunderstanding the rules of grammer, So no offense will be taken if I am corrected.:confused:

I agree that this is very good news for this school.

I remember before I started Medical School how I would analyze my Schools clinical spot locations, etc. But...... once you start school and get closer to that 5th semester, you'll quickly change your attitude to one that is willing to go "ANYWHERE" as long as two criteria are met

1 - No huge gaps waiting between rotations
2 - The rotation is (Green) ACGME

Especially when clinical sites for Carib Schools is a "dog eat dog" world out there right now.

Another benefit for you guys, is that UMHS has the smaller class sizes, hence not being overcrowded when clinicals come around

[UMHS]

I want to underscore that little comma. While negotiations are ongoing in these areas, nothing has been fnalized in the states mentioned. Please remain flexible and do not get wedded to any state mentioned. Until negotiations are finalized, we are never sure if we will or will not be able to get rotations in a particular state or geographic area. While we are as hopeful as you are, we all need to remain realistic as well.