What if someone wants to practice outside of CA, FL, NY, or NJ?

[nyxtopouli]

I would have no problem starting my career in one of those 4 states. But what if, down the line, I'd like to move closer to family?

Should I wait until UMHS is accredited in my state? Or would it be OK to practice a few yrs in, say, NJ or NY and then would I be able to apply for a license in my state (which is close to those 2)?

How does this work? If I attend UMHS when its only approved in a handful of states, does that affect me downt he road as far as options?

[UMHS]

Students from medical schools that have ECFMG approval are eligible to sit the USMLE (licensing exam). Students who pass the exam are then eligible for licensure in the various states. Each state has its own requirements and you should check the requirements of the states where you would like to practice before applying to any particular school. As I mentioned elsewhere, UMHS is in the process of being recognized by ECFMG.

Several states have their own accreditation process. The four that I mentioned previously are good examples. Having state accreditation has certain advantages unrelated to the licensing exam issue above. UMHS wants to provide those advantages to its students. If you search ValueMD for other threads related to state accreditation, you will learn a wealth of information related to these advantages.

[nyxtopouli]

Where can I find a good general discussion, in layman's terms, of what it takes to get certified in, say, Virginia or Maryland or Pennsylvania?

Do these states usually follow NJ and NY?

Would a UMHS person be able to give me any inside info, or will their response always be "do some research"? I realize i need to do research--trust me, I do the research myself and don't believe or rely on what others say. However, it would be nice, as *part* of the research, to get some UMHS feedback considering that your business is preparing students to be doctors and you presumably have more experience and access to know this information.

[UMHS]

I'm not exactly sure what "inside info" means. Since I am a UMHS official, it doesn't get much more inside! Having said that, I will always tell you to do your own research. "Inside info" from ANY school official is suspect. We obviously are making our schools sound good. Some because they want to sell you their product and some because we really believe our schools are good. No matter what the motivation is, we are not unbiased. Keep in mind that non-official opinions that are posted here also may be biased. Some people are misinformed; some have been wronged and have an axe to grind while others are just generally mean spirited people. My advice is to always go to an objective source (e.g. state medical boards) and get your info from them. I also think it wise to get it in writing so that you have documentation later if you need it. When you've gathered all the information that you can, make the decision that is best for you!

[nyxtopouli]

by "inside info" i mostly meant, is UMHS anticipating accreditation by a good number of states by the time their first classes graduate? i realize they can't say for sure--i am wondering if they have some sort of plan of attack to do this. yes i realize the Ross connection and the fact that Ross is approved everywhere--i'm just wondering about the prospects for UMHS achiveving that.

[UMHS]

I think your phrase "approved everywhere" is the key here. The senior administraiton of UMHS is the same group of people that got Ross University School of Medicine to the point where it was at the time of the first sale. If they could pull it off once, they ought to be able to do it again.

We are already working on the states' accreditations and have a very systematic plan to acccomplish all the goals that you are asking about. At this time, the plan has already been implemtned and now it is just a matter of systematically taking each step as we are eligible.

Since you already realize that I can't say whether we can have the majority of those accreditations in place by the time that the first class graduates, I'm not going to say it. As you follow along on this site, you will learn that I will either tell you the truth, tell you that I know but can't tell you or tell you that I don't know. When I don't know but somebody else does, I will get you the information you need. In this case, no one can give you any more than an optimistic opinion.

[DOCplucinski]

by "inside info" i mostly meant, is UMHS anticipating accreditation by a good number of states by the time their first classes graduate? i realize they can't say for sure--i am wondering if they have some sort of plan of attack to do this. yes i realize the Ross connection and the fact that Ross is approved everywhere--i'm just wondering about the prospects for UMHS achiveving that.
NY and FL are more liberal approvals and in most concern with clinical rotations within the states. they have basic criteria after paper work and site visits, probably take a year to completely be approved depending on when they start the process. California, which is more of a state-wide licensure acceptance, is out of the picture for UMHS for years. they require a lot of data by pass rates, graduate data, etc etc that this school will not be able to provide for awhile. Don't come to this school under the assumption of practicing in California or participating states using this list.

Another term which I think the school official and yourself are confusing is the term "accreditation". The only accreditation body in the United States is the LCME which foreign schools or Caribbean for that matter are not covered under. States have particular criteria they require for either clinical rotations or licensure and some have lists. These lists are of approval and disapproval but does not mean they are of the same standards of the LCME. California approval is the closest thing to that standard, regardless it is still an accreditation body.

[nyxtopouli]

Since you already realize that I can't say whether we can have the majority of those accreditations in place by the time that the first class graduates, I'm not going to say it. As you follow along on this site, you will learn that I will either tell you the truth, tell you that I know but can't tell you or tell you that I don't know. When I don't know but somebody else does, I will get you the information you need. In this case, no one can give you any more than an optimistic opinion.

I do trust that its the same group of people, which is the only reason I'd consider UMHS rather than wait a year or two and take a shot or two at applying for US schools. Experience (I'm not that old but still...) has taught me that the time when you really need to ask questions is the time that you are almost thinking you dont need to question things.

I will probably apply to UMHS this cycle.

Do you think it would be absurd for me to apply for May? It's almost March... Also, when does the May semester start? I think my Spring finals and graduation are about May 7th... so is May totally out of the question for me? Should I just wait and apply for Sept (in which case I will take the MCAT in May and apply to a lot of places other than UMHS as well).

Just wondering if May would be out of the question for a May graduate who doesnt take his last final until the first week of May. By the way, I had a GRE score above the 95th %tile so I'd be submitting that instead of MCAT since I have the MCAT scheduled for May....

[UMHS]

Orientation and registration will begin on May 7th and continue through the 11th. Classes will begin on May 12th. Obviously, the later that you arrive, the more of orientation that you will miss. A last minute arrival means that you will be harried getting into and stocking your apartment, getting phone and internet service and setting up a bank account. It is better to arrive a bit before classes start so that you can take care of business and get to know your fellow students, the faculty , the program and the island.

While it is technically possible for you to register as late as the 16th, I would not recommend starting late. Medical school is hard enough without starting after classes have begun. You will be responsible for the material that has already been covered. The good news is that the class will be small so the insturctors will have office time to assist you but you will still be struggling to catch up at the same time that you are attending the ongoing classes.

Obviously, the final decision is yours to make.

As for the GREs and MCATs. UMHS does not require the MCAT. Neither do we require the GREs. If you want to submit either in support of your application, you are welcome to do so but neither is required.

[rokshana]

if you are in the realms of competitive for a US school, it is better to wait and apply there 1st.

the caribbean should be the last resort, not the first choice.

[nyxtopouli]

if you are in the realms of competitive for a US school, it is better to wait and apply there 1st.

the caribbean should be the last resort, not the first choice.

are there any circumstances where you'd apply to a carrib school first? my college GPA was pretty low (2.7 i think) and i had a bunch of grades of F in soph. yr. I ended up going back to a different college (transfered), working out some personal problems, and graduating my new school with honors... but the F's from the first school still killed me. then a few yrs later, i did the premed reqs as a postbac... i dont have a lot of time to waste, for family reasons i either need to commit to a career or start med school in a year... if i wait a cycle out (the fall 09 applications to us schools) and strike out, i'll be putting severe strain on my family and marriage.

if you had a 2.7 college GPA followed by a 3.3 postbac, would you wait and apply in the US? assume that my MCAT would be at least 30, bc so far my practice test avg is 32 or 33.

thanks in advance for any suggestions... i know the decision is mine, but im just wondering what others think. dont you think i'm risking 'striking out' if i apply in the US? my college GPA was *terrible* and i have a bunch of B and B- grades in my postbac that bring my postbac avg down (lots of A's but some lower grades too)

[DOCplucinski]

your GPA is low, but if you do score well on the MCAT, SGU, AUC, Saba and Ross would be better choices.

[nyxtopouli]

your GPA is low, but if you do score well on the MCAT, SGU, AUC, Saba and Ross would be better choices.

Briefly, why are those 4 better choices?

Also, my postbacc GPA should be about 3.5 when I'm done in May. I took a total of about 50 credits of sci classes since college graduation... so its not like I got the ~3.5 in just a few classes. If you were me, would you suck it up and spend the money and time applying in the US? It is doable but I am almost 30 and its going to be hard on my family to delay this another year, esp with uncertain prospects.

What's hard for me to understand is how the Carib could be so undesirable a route. It would seem to me that a good STEP I score will open doors for residency, even if you go to MD school in the carribean. How hard is it? And why is it so hard?

[DrFraud]

Briefly, why are those 4 better choies?

Also, my postbacc GPA should be about 3.5 when I'm done in May. I took a total of about 50 credits of sci classes since college graduation... so its not like I got the ~3.5 in just a few classes. If you were me, would you suck it up and spend the money and time applying in the US? It is doable but I am almost 30 and its going to be hard on my family to delay this another year, esp with uncertain prospects.

What's hard for me to understand is how the Carib could be so undesirable a route. It would seem to me that a good STEP I score will open doors for residency, even if you go to MD school in the carribean. How hard is it? And why is it so hard?

Your first post in this thread related to accreditation. These 4 programs are licensed in all 50 states, so you won't ever need to concern yourself about practicing medicine in the states. Each of the 4 has its adv. and disadv. but at least you know that when you finish you will be able to practice medicine.

Who knows, UMHC might end up becoming one of the best choices for medical school in the Caribbean, and Dr. Ross has a faily good track record, but right now they are unproven, so it's more of a risk for you to go with a program that just getting started than with one that has a proven track record.

[Proteinpowda]

The best answer I can give you is this:
I have a 3.35 overall; good LORs, and a 31R on my MCAT. I've only received 1 US interview so far out of the 22 schools I applied to. My weak point is not enough extra-curriculars. But I applied late in the cycle.
Being a non-trad student I'm not sure how they're going to view your application; while it's possible to get in with a 2.7 you need a really good MCAT score to do this; I would say higher than 32 or 33.
You also need some Letters of Reccomendation and to show that you're invovled in your community. Or maybe not; I don't know how they view non-trads. But do you have any healthcare related experiences? Or maybe some volunteer work or anything?
So if you apply broadly and very early in the cycle and get a stellar MCAT score the best anyone can tell you is maybe.
Also realize that applying to 22 US schools cost over $2k and takes a lot of time with secondaries and can cost even more if you get interviews and have to fly all over the country for them.
You might want to consider to applying to a few DO schools as well. Many of those schools require that you shadow a DO and obtain a letter of reccomendation from a DO as well.

[nyxtopouli]

The best answer I can give you is this:
I have a 3.35 overall; good LORs, and a 31R on my MCAT. I've only received 1 US interview so far out of the 22 schools I applied to. My weak point is not enough extra-curriculars. But I applied late in the cycle.
Being a non-trad student I'm not sure how they're going to view your application; while it's possible to get in with a 2.7 you need a really good MCAT score to do this; I would say higher than 32 or 33.
You also need some Letters of Reccomendation and to show that you're invovled in your community. Or maybe not; I don't know how they view non-trads. But do you have any healthcare related experiences? Or maybe some volunteer work or anything?
So if you apply broadly and very early in the cycle and get a stellar MCAT score the best anyone can tell you is maybe.
Also realize that applying to 22 US schools cost over $2k and takes a lot of time with secondaries and can cost even more if you get interviews and have to fly all over the country for them.
You might want to consider to applying to a few DO schools as well. Many of those schools require that you shadow a DO and obtain a letter of reccomendation from a DO as well.


Your points about the COSTS are one of the reasons I am hesitating to wait and apply in the US. As you say, even with a 3.35 and a 31R, you have one interview... that has to suck... I wish you the best.

I'm shooting for an MCAT around 33 or so. My practice tests are in the 32-34 range but I am being conservative and just hoping to stay in that range, not expecting a 35 or higher.

The costs (2k at a minimum for ~20 applications) and the time is another huge cost... while I apply to US schools I will continue volunteering (I do a good amount of that now) and probably take a relatively low-paying hospital job. Thus, I'd really be better off just sucking it up and giong to the caribbean now UNLESS i think I really will get into a US school.

For what its worth, if I don't apply for the Carrib schools for september, I will take the MCAT this May and apply early in the US cycle--submitting all the AMCAS stuff by early July.

The huge question is, is it worth giving up a year of my life and filling out 20 applications, flying to interviews, and paying all the fees... just for a shot at some US DO school? I realize this is an opinion question--so I'm just seeking opinions. I want more imput that I can get in real life. I already talk to people about this in real life and I already do my own research... just wondering what others can add.

For me, at least, waiting an extra year to just take a shot at US med schools has real consequences. Paying all the money and interviewing all over would kill me if I jsut end up goign to the caribb anyway. I'm trying to gauge if I should just face that fate now... because I don't see how a caribb school is any worse than, say, the lower end of DO schools that I'd probably be looking at anyway.

[AUCMD2006]

for reasons stated above the 4 carib schools that have been around the longest with track records of continued improvements are ross, agu, auc, and saba

with ross, sgu, auc you will have no issues in california, any states that use its list, they are also approved by texas as equivalent schools and all have government backed stafford loans. collectively these 3 have over 10,000 fully licensed practicing doctors in the US

saba has california, no texas yet but will also afford the same opportunities as the other three. with your stats and a 30 on the mcat you have a shot at any of the above.

the rest of the schools in the carib are further down the list because they have more issus, not as many grads, not as many approvals, loan options, etc, etc. therefore the rest are last option schools. out of your last option schools places that just opened up like uhms, st theresa, xavier, etc are at the bottom of the bottom because they have nothing to show for yet. granted out of the pack uhms probably has the best shot to survive because Mr Ross brings in years of experience but its still years and years away from being in the same circle as the other 4

new schools are there to cater to people who have absolutely no other options, you have options and while i agree that a shot at a US school is a long one you have a really good shot at a foreign school with a long track record and no questions as to where and how you can practice

also the carib is not the be all and end all of foreign schools that take US students. the royal college of surgeons in ireland has the bridge program, schools in australia, israel, and eastern europe also have routes to coming back to the US..so look at the best option not just the quickest in the long run 6 months or a year waiting to get into a decent school wil lsave you a lifetime of trying to practice somewhere you can't

[rokshana]

everything that AUC said and....

expense is not limited to just applying to a vast amount of US schools and hoping to get a shot. Coming down to the caribbean will in an of itself cost you more. Its not just the tuition and living expenses, but you will probably have to pay for a review course come step time (many US students will not),your steps will cost more (3-400 dolloars more for each test) you will have to travel around for rotations and pay the crazy high rents for short term leases, you will more than likely have to live in the more expensive areas of the country (ie NY) to do rotations, you will have to apply to more programs and interview more places (thus more expense ) to get a decent number of places to rank when applying for residency.....and so on...

yes you stats make it a long shot, but better to have tried and know...

but that saying if you really think the caribbean is the way to go, the way to go is not a brand new school when you have a good chance at going to a more established school. I, too, agree with people UMHS will probably be a strong contender and in 5-10 years it will probably be the big 5- Dr. Ross has the know how and connections to make this school work, but an established school with a proven track record and graduates in practice and residency will serve you better in the long run.

apply here, but research and apply to sgu, auc, ross, and saba as well- you do have a good shot at those schools with the stats you currently have...

[NHFUTUREDOC]

UMHS School Official:
Is UMHS WHO approved? Will grads be allowed to obtain licensure in NH,VT,CT and NY? As I will want to practice in New England and or New York, this is important to me. Thank you for your assistance.

[UMHS]

Sorry to be so late answering this. I got distracted with school business and missed seeing your questions.

WHO no longer maintains the list of international medical schools that are accredited. FAIMER now has the IMED list. Our documents have been submitted to them by the Ministry and it is only a matter of time until our listing appears.

The safest bet regarding licensure is to check with the state medical boards themselves. They can give you an answer regarding whether future graduates of UMHS will be eligible for licensure. Be sure that they understand that this is a new school and where we are in our development!

What I can tell you now is that many of our clinical sites will be in the regions that you are describing and we foresee no problems getting approval in NY and NJ when we become eligible, but the states control licensure and I' like them to give you an answer.

[lifeAgift]

Hmmm;)

Interesting conversation going on here.

On the one hand I find so many points brought up on the various threads to be valid, articulated well and worthy of great consideration.

On the other hand my gut/intuition/instinct/SPIRIT tells me it's just not that deep and that the more we all begin to think globally the more we will realize that the USA is not the only bar by which to measure all things.

Hmmmm

One thing I do know for sure is that the practice of medicine did not evolve from a bunch of accredidation bodies, test standards or green book/ blue chip rating systems (whatever these are).

Healing requires passion, wisdom and yes SACRIFICE.

NAMASTE

[endymion]

I tend to agree with lifeAgift.

Another poster opined:

"new schools are there to cater to people who have absolutely no other options, you have options and while i agree that a shot at a US school is a long one you have a really good shot at a foreign school with a long track record and no questions as to where and how you can practice"

New schools are being created (mostly under for profit models) because there is a huge desparity between the demand for MD's and their availability.

I'd suggest any propective or current medical student google their state medical board and review a few minutes from their public meetings. You'll see a great many MD's from non-US degree programs being granted the right to practice medicine. I know that is the case in my State.

"absolutely no other options" is a wee bit of an over generalization for my taste, though the same was probably said about the poor womanfolk at a little startup in 1893 at a place in Baltimore. <s>