Sackler - 2008 or apply to US schools for 2009?? PLEASE ADV

[nontrad84]

I am a nontraditional applicant who completed all the science prereqs in postbac during the past 2 years. I will be taking the MCAT in April. My overall GPA is about 3.3 and I have lab and clinical research experience as well as volunteering and other ECs.

I would like to start med school ASAP. I really need your advice on whether I am making a dumb decision wanting to apply to Sackler and if accepted start this fall, (without trying to apply to the US schools for fall 2009).

Of course the main concern is transition back to the US, residency, licensing… I don’t mind living in Israel for the next 4 years. I just really want to know how many more obstacles am I subjecting myself to by becoming an IMG.

Would you go with Sackler without applying to the US schools first?

[student-2]

depends what you want in the long run and where you see it happening- all things that I am not sure you can foresee right now (at least ussually thats the case- there are some people that are born knowing they want to be a surgeon and will only do it in New York).
You just hae to decide for yourself what your current priorities are now and trust that you will be alright and that your decisions are good. If you will be a good student and work hard you will be fine. All in all Sackler students do well- even very well- but it is not the right move for everybody.
Best of luck

[levtechnion]

What ever you do, don't come to the Technion. The program has Lied to it's stutents non stop. They use underhanded methods of revenge against students they don't like. Th atrittion rate for the class of 2010 is now at 22% after 3 semesters, for the class of 2011 it is at 20% after one semester. The school tells the students that tuition is $22,000 but once they come to the school and can not go anywhere else they raise tuition to $25,000. The class hours are insane (they could not decide which classes to gove so they give every possible class including inventing new ones). If you fail one class you have to repeat the whole year and they charge $1,500 per credit hour that you must repeat. They also try to force you to repeat classes that you have passed so that you can pay even higher tuition. When the students balked at the increase in tuition the school sent letters to the lone companies that the students were no longer in school, even thpough there was three months left to the semester. one of the course directors failed 43% of class of 2009 b/c they came late to class as a result of filling out forms the school was supposed to do for them. If you try to speak to any of the administration you can not. you are not allowed to speak to the dean, the vice dean, or even the course director. It is against the rules. The academic advisior has publicly insulted and berated students when he has been approached about the possability of meeting with students when it would be good for him. The vice dean Dr. ****** came into class and actualy said that there are people in the class who he does not think should be Doctors and he will personaly make sure that no matter what they will not graduate. The course matirial is never available on time and often not posted untill after the course final. Please undestand that htis is only the tip of the Iceberg. And I as well as others will be posting more about the program as time goes on.

[DrMedMan]

The above post is hard for me to believe... does anyone else agree with him?

[awnodirp]

..........

[TechSlave]

Everthing that was said above about the Technion is true. I am a 2nd year med student in the program. It's very poorly run but I assume that it will improve as time goes on. The tuition will increase to $25,000 for next year. It is quite a disorganized preclinical program, but I hear that the clinical rounds are the highlight of the program because of the small class size and the friendly nature of doctor-student relationships here. If you have any questions feel free to email me. Good luck.

[TechSlave]

The following is an email that was sent to our class from the director of the program after we requested to sit down with him and discuss the surprise tuition increase:

Dear Program Director,

The class would like further information regarding this tuition hike
before agreeing to such increases.
We understand that you are out of country at the moment but we would like to
meet with you on the first available time. Please inform us when is the best
time for you.

Thanks
President of Technion Class


Reply from the program director:

Ill suggest that you first pay, those who are not willing to pay are allowed to leave.
Although I am not obligated Ill find the time to explain to you how things are working in the program.

[awnodirp]

..........

[TechnionChicken]

Regarding the previous posts (and I hope the last post was not from the administration), I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
The program is definitely a difficult one, and is definitely not meant for everybody. What do I mean? Of course if you get into the school and choose to come, it is your choice. Simply be aware that you might not make it through, or that you might have a very difficult time making it through.

It is a difficult program in the sense that it is simply overwhelming. Be prepared to sit in class from 8:30-4:00 or even 6:00pm (sometimes even longer). Be prepared to spend many precious hours typing up lab reports and PBL`s, at the expense of study time. Be prepared to expend energy while getting frustrated with the administration.
There are those who are unflappable and manage just fine, despite the distractions ( ~top 25% of the class). Then there are those on the opposite side (including myself), who simply cannot handle the disorganization/pressure and all other factors. This does not mean we are "unfit" for medicine (as the previous poster suggested). It simply means that this specific program, located in this specific region of the world, is unnecessarily difficult, frustrates many, and may not be the right choice for all.

[levtechnion]

Awnodrip seems to have a great intrest in this conversation for someone who has already finished med school in the carib. I understand that he would be checking posts about those schools to help potential students there but why would he be even looking (or for that matter arguing) about posts in Israeli schools. He also seems to know a great deal about both the technion and Haifa for that matter. being able to comment on the population demographics of the city and the intergration difficulties specific to the school seem highly suspect.

DrMedMan you questioned the authenticity of my post, but in truth I think that this Awnodrip is probably working for the technion. In fact I have personaly Heard Dr. ****** (the dean of my program) say many of these same things, in the same manner. Go figure?

And for the record My grades are Just fine.
P.S. He talks about the Island, Which one? which school? who was the head of his genetics course (sarah selig is in the technion).

[awnodirp]

..........

[levtechnion]

Are you getting paid by the school to sat these things. How do you know the Numbers are exagerated, do you have the transcrips of the students? At least i can say I know them, but how do you. Clearly you are a troll working for the Technion. I am suprised you havent defended the fact that the school Just kicked all the Americans out of the dorms just because they are Americans. Maybe if you actually spent your time trying to fix all the screwups, instead of Lying to prospective students about who you are, things might actually get done. Also based on the personal insults you are throing out it is clear that you are in the Administration. The only time I here that type of Arogent garbage is from The dean or one of his lying Cronies. Are you guys still telling students at the Interviews that there is a 0% attrition rate? Do you tell them that you plan on throwing them out of the dorms during finals?
I mean you have actually done these things dont you think students should know this?
As for only accepting 8-10 students a year b/c of high standerds, Garbage. No one wanted to go there. Only after the school revamped the program with empty promises did thy con students into coming (most of whome wish they never did).
Also please refrain from personal insults even if you are the dean of TeAMS, it is inappropriate and also against the rules (though I realise the Tech. Admin. doesnt think that they need to follow rules).

[awnodirp]

..........

[levtechnion]

Why do you assume to know me?
Or even what my grades are like?
Clearly you are fishing
Do you know what happens if you dont air it out and instead shove it a conner, It stinks even worse. You claim to be religious but you dont seem to have a problem duping others into coming to this school so you can get a better residency. If that is your religion I am glad I have no Part in it.

P.S. At least you admit it is true. YoU are always such a big talker about religion and truth but it is clear that ou are nothing but a hypocryte. You are not so removed from the bottom either, Ho many Moed Bet did you do? 4,5,6? so many I lost count. When you have to tell your family that they need to stay Another year you will change your tone also.

[Technoslut]

Levtechnion speaks of a lot of instances that supposedly occurred in the 2007-2008 school year.

First off, most of the instances he mentioned, he exaggerated like crazy. He also forgot to mention how rude some of the students acted. These incidents were not pleasant and I sympathize with the students. But the statistics that Levtechnion gave, such as the ridiculously inflated attrition rate, are BOGUS. Also I think that whoever wants to complain about the program director should put him/herself in his shoes. Whoever has a disagreement or wants clarification is free to contact me and I will explain my position.

Second, this is overall a great program. Much better than a lot of programs. Good education. Good USMLE scores. Excellent residency placements. Respect abroad (in the US and Canada). I honestly believe people should choose the Technion over a lot of other schools, such as those in the Caribbean or Europe. I would personally come here over a D.O. school. If you couldn't get into a US Allopathic school, shouldn't you be grateful to the school that is providing you with an MD degree, at a good price, and gives you an experience of a lifetime (how many people can say that they got to live in Israel? Would you rather live here or in Mexico, Hungary, etc?)

Most of us do very well in the pre-Clinical and Clinical years. Yes, there are always a few (<10%) people who don't pass or are held back. Some of them truly did not deserve this, and I can say that Technion exams are notorious for their difficulty. I would say that there have been arbitrary circumstances, that all of us have endured... But on the whole we've done well, despite the problems that this programs has... Notice, this program DOES have problems, but so do a lot of other foreign schools. I would ask Levtechnion where does he think there aren't problems?

In summary, I disagree with Levtechnion. Those students in the Pre-Clinical years should know this: We all bich and moan while we're in the program. But anyone who's graduated will tell you that they are successful doctors. Isn't that why we're here?

[sleeplessinhaifa]

This is turning into a full scale online war between either a student and the administration, or a student who tells it how it is and a student who is clearly concerned about his own future (which is understandable from a human point of view, but despicable if you take into consideration that this is being written by a future doctor with who is supposed to have some moral and ethical standards set for him/herself.)

Truth is, this program is loaded with problems, but the main issue that I think me and the rest of the like-minded students in the program have – is the blatant unwillingness of the administration to try and adopt to arising issues, and at times open hostility towards students who “dare” speak out and try to hold the administration accountable to their faults. It’s understandable that a new program will have problems, but one would hope that steps would be taken to correct those problems.

I believe that the example of the recent email with regards to tuition and the harsh response by the Dean of the program – clearly demonstrates the attitude that the administration of this program has towards the students. The recent issue of sudden tuition increase has angered many of us because to many, it seems as an arbitrary increase that has no correlation to actual fluctuation of the dollar or “need to hire new staff” that was put forth as the reason by the administration. In reality, most of us believe, the RANDOM increase stems from sheer greed and the realization that we in fact would be forced to pay whatever asked. To me, this is a bait and switch tactic (whether or not we are legally protected – we are not sure) and naturally we were upset by this. The problem for us of course is very well summed up in the response of the Dean that “those who are not willing to pay are allowed to leave” when he clearly understands that it would be devastating to any of us to quit after two years of accumulated debt, which really leaves us with the only option of having to pay said increase in tuition. This response from the Dean, as was noted by an outside source that became aware of this situation, is “sheer arrogance,” since you would expect a Dean to respond with a little more maturity and restraint – even if he disagrees with us on the issue. Professionalism should not just be a long, pretty word from a dictionary.

Now I could tell you many stories about us having to wait almost two months for books, lack of written policy (even though we have been asking for it since we first got here), horribly translated exams, being told many conflicting things on various occasions (unanimous voting anyone?) and many, many other things. But it’s not really necessary to list every single grievance done to us. I will just tell you what I have come to believe after two years of being here. This program’s main interest is your MONEY. It’s not whether or not you do well on your boards or whether or not you get a good residency. If you do – great, they will wave this in the face of all the incoming students and try and ride the wave of YOUR success. But do not be fooled – they will not help you get there. Whatever you will achieve will be entirely due to your own blood, sweat and tears and you could do just as well if not better at some other school. Before coming here, just consider these things – do I really need this aggravation while I am trying to get my medical degree? And also, think what would you do had you ended up in the shoes of the people who weren’t able to get through one of the years? Can you spare another year of your life? Can you spare another full year’s tuition (and the administration will try and do their best to get that full tuition out of you)? This is as a side note – if you fail a course, you cannot retake it in the summer and you will pay at a minimum of half year’s tuition since you don’t pay per credit here, fail enough credits and you are paying another whole year’s worth even if you are not taking a year’s worth of classes. Anyways, if you chose to come here you relinquish your future rights of complaining since you have been warned. Many of us weren’t.

Now, as for why am I here telling you this? I could tell you that it’s because I wish to spare others my own suffering – but I am not that altruistic. In my powerlessness in the current situation, I feel that the only way that we can force the administration to start listening to us is by hitting them where it hurts – in their pockets. If next year only 20 students will come, that’s 270K worth of tuition less. Otherwise, they will continue bullying us because they can, and they know that they will get away with it. Even if the incoming class will be sans 4 individuals, that’s 100K that we will have taken away from this school to make up for the 90k that they are so shamelessly stealing from us next year.

[awnodirp]

..........

[levtechnion]

Yes, I am infact sensative to those who have been failed/shafted unjustly and now must deal with the fallout of the schools lying, cheating and backstabbing.
And Yes I believe when your turn to fail comes around, then you will suddenly be more sensative to others.
My heart bleeds irrespective of my own situation.
I to rest my case

[Technoslut]

I know that nobody nominated me to get involved in this issue, and I am a relative late-comer to these postings, but:

Awnodirp -- I don't understand how you portend to be a someone who "values" the "friendship" of Levtechnion, but then go on to bash him and make personal attacks on him, assuming he/she is the individual you believe he/she is.

Obviously he/she can do better than you, and doesn't need "friends" like you. Although I agree with you on many/most points, I don't agree with the way you took this debate.

Levtechnion -- I don't think that you should be a doctor. I don't know who you are, I assume that you are posing as one of the four (4 out of 30) students who were held back from that Class of 2010.

You have horrible spelling, you don't articulate yourself well, it is all emotional mumbo-jumbo. It is sort of Hitlerian, how you dwell on all the things that you think are wrong with the program, how no one should come here, etc...None of your points sounded intelligent. It was just a long diatribe. The student that you are pretending to be is actually a good speller, in my opinion an intelligent individual and articulate person. I know that this individual does not write the way you do.

I don't think you are doing those people who did not pass a favor in your psychotic ramblings. Look at what you wrote and tell me if that's what someone who is about to be a doctor would write?

[sleeplessinhaifa]

I find it a cheap tactic that you both use in your posts, trying to discredit levtechnion by suggesting that he is one of the failed students. A) Even if that is the case, it does not take away from the truth that we have been repeatedly "screwed" by the school B) There are many students who are doing well that are just as frustrated.

Also, don't you find it ironic that you berate your fellow student for "spelling mistakes" when your own Dean often sends e-mails full of grammatical errors and the so-often-left-out "unnecessary" punctuation?

Thirdly - having seen this in a post above - there are no students in the class with an MCAT of 35+ so asking those students their opinion becomes somewhat difficult...

Finally - the tuition issue. Your argument would have made sense had we originally agreed to pay in shekels translated back to dollars. We don't get the bill in shekels, we shouldn't worry about the fluctuation. If that is your argument - then I expect a full refund if the dollar goes back up and since that will never happen, I don't agree to pay more in the first place.

Also to add to that: how come the year above us does not have their tuition going up and they are already paying less than us? The year above them had the same tuition for the entire 4 years - I'm guessing the dollar did not fluctuate? Also, how is it possible that the program that was proffitable with 8 people now is in dire need of raising tuition to cover costs when the class size has increased to 30 while the lecturers have remained the same and there were no additional facilities built for us or new staff hired?
The money issue is just a reflection of the general attitude of the school towards this program and the people in - so please spare me your attempt to protect them.

The only concern you two have is for your own future residencies and how this recent "garbage float" may affect your future. Don't try and pass it off as some kind of honest praise - we all know what goes on in the school for the last two years.

[awnodirp]

..........

[TheGrizz2]

There is great debate about the propriety in revealing some of the major drawbacks in the Technion TEAMS program. That debate is appropriate to discuss on this forum. The decent into personal attack and Insinuation of motives is, however, without justification. First, if a post Author is anonymous then specific criticisms of his academic standing or personal mental health are at the very best conjecture and more likely a well used tactic of undermining the credibility of the messenger without dealing with the message. Perhaps even more disturbing is the ease and willingness with which some of the posters are ready to deceive others so that the posters afore mentioned interests are best served. Therefore let us try to sort things out in a logical and fair way.

Problem 1:
The Credibility of the Poster?
It seems that there are four main poster in the group. Awnodrip, LevTechnion, SleeplesinHaifa, and Tech*****.
Awnodrip, I have read your posts and you have claimed to be different people at different times, a perspective student waiting for replies for admission and my classmate (which means that your suggestion that the e-mail was not in fact from the dean is a lie). This is not a question of conjecture but Honesty vs. Deception. It therefore seems to me that you have no credibility. Also, you yourself imply that the only reason one would write the truth about the school is because they have nothing to lose. It therefore stands to reason that you would avoid revealing problems of the school in an effort to improve your residency. This hardly goes a long way in improving you credibility. On a final Note, intoning your faith as a reason for not judging Levtechnion and then proceeding with a paragraph of personal insults and baseless judgments about His/Her grades is, to quote one of the posters the pinnacle of "Hypocrisy". While it is not uncommon for religious people to be dishonest, please do not use religion as your modus to be so, it stains the whole faith.
Lev Technion: Your numbers seem high in terms of "Attrition" please explain how you get them. While you grammar should not reflect the veracity of you statements it unfortunately does. The tone also implies an agenda even if one is not present; try to be more thoughtful in the future.
SleeplessinHaifa: Really Kol Hakavode.
Tech*******: You need to work out some of your projection issues. Awnodrip has never claimed to be anyone specific, so any criticism (psycho for example) is somewhat poorly supported by factual evidence.
Problem 2: Responsability
Here is my two cents. We have a duty to tell the truth when asked, shtikah k'hodah. I do not believe we must seek out potential students and warn them, it would never end. Certainly we must never cover for the school, for selfish reasons or otherwise. And lastly we do not blame victims. Racisms is not the fault of the race, anti-Semitism is not the fault of the Jews and sexism is not the fault of the gender. If a student fails because they are lazy that is the fault of the student. If it is because the school is Lazy, arrogant and incompetent then they are to blame. Just as you don't tell a rape victim that it is her fault for dressing a certain way you don't tell a student that because he was only able to achieve what is reasonable, and not what is unreasonable, that he/she is responsible.
There is more to write but I haven't the time.
Yours Truly,
The Grizz

[TechMDnion]

Ladies & Gents - Many of these posts have been offensive to me. I will do my best not to return the favor. Sorry in advance if I am overly critical.
Levtechnion - It is clear that you were the instigator of this thread, so I will address you first. With all due respect, were you ever a Technion matriculant? Please be honest. Your ability to communicate on paper does not appear to be medical school material and surely not doctor material. You must know that your rants contain almost nothing of merit. I can sympathize with you. I can see why you would feel belligerent towards the administration if in fact you failed a year of medical school or were outright rejected.
Grizz - Please help me translate your manuscript. You made some valid points. I think you put a negative spin on our school. Looking at the big picture it is not clear where you stand. You sound indifferent to me.
Awnodirp - Your words were overly harsh. You make many valid points from the perspective of the top 50% of the class. I am curious how you became privy to this statistical information. It appears that you are not a matriculant based on your prior posts, but based on the information you have I must ask if you are a current student. Nevertheless, you seem to have an inside source, and I will not attempt to discredit your words about the school itself. You painted a picture that Technion is an ideal, first-choice medical school for top applicants. Maybe this is true for you. More power to you.
Technoslut - I like the way you think. Rational, constructively critical, and honest.
sleeplessinhaifa - Very good post. You outlined many of the problems at our school, but I think that your conclusion is fallacious. I also think the following statement of yours is incredibly naive, "This program’s main interest is your MONEY. It’s not whether or not you do well on your boards or whether or not you get a good residency. If you do – great, they will wave this in the face of all the incoming students and try and ride the wave of YOUR success. But do not be fooled – they will not help you get there. Whatever you will achieve will be entirely due to your own blood, sweat and tears and you could do just as well if not better at some other school."

How do you suppose the school would stay in business if they did not have successful graduates? Furthermore, maybe you know a doctor that went through four years of medical school and did not achieve success "entirely due to [their own] blood, sweat and tears"? Perhaps you pledged a fraternity. Do you remember "Hell Week"? Medical school is a four-year "Hell Week". You will be giving your soul to medicine one way or another. If you realize this sooner rather than later a doctor you will become. In conclusion I hope that I have not offended anyone. I do have an agenda. Who in life does not have some sort of an agenda or bias. My agenda is to paint an accurate picture for prospective students, and keep the fallacies to a minimum. It would be unfortunate to see someone pass on Technion due to an unfair picture painted by a couple unhappy customers. Also, I am not concerned with the reputation of the school. Many, but not all, students in the past have secured respectable residencies. Does anyone honestly think that posts on valuemd are going to influence their residency options? Cheers.

[technionstudent]

For the record, I am a 2nd year student at the Technion.

My thoughts are somewhat jumbled, and with tests this week I don't have time to proofread and reorganize, so please excuse any grammatical/spelling mistakes or jumps in thoughts.

This email is long if you want JUST the basic idea of what I have to say without the proof I point out, read only the last 3 paragraphs.

I feel that the Technion is a wonderful program as far as education. Professors are VERY knowledgable and the amount/detail of material that you learn is considerable. I have no doubt that when I graduate I will have all the tools necessary to begin the path of being a doctor.

The problem with the school is the administration.

The administration has practiced very "shady" techniques in how they've dealt with students.

Example: Last year, there was an article published saying that the Technion and Sackler were not accredited by the state of Israel. The students were VERY concerned and began looking to the administration for answers. The first response we received was a casual "don't worry about it, you concentrate on your studies we'll figure out the rest". This isn't very comforting if you're a student who was considering practicing in Israel. But the really "shady" act was what they did to the web site. The Technion web site is often the only place you can get "reliable" information in writing about the program. And hours after voicing our concern to the administration and receiving their casual response, the web site was updated.

where it once read: " The M.D. degree of the Faculty of Medicine of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology is fully accredited by the Israeli National Council for Higher Education and is listed in the Directory of Medical Programs of the World Health Organization. "

This important paragraph was changed. It read "The M.D. degree of the Faculty of Medicine of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology is fully accredited is listed in the Directory of Medical Programs of the World Health Organization. "

Why was it done? In my opinion to cover their ***. But, it's irresponsible to put something up on the web site and then changing it while reassuring the students that everything was ok.

Maybe this one time occurence you say?

Example 2: Weeks ago, when the tuition was announced as raised, the web site was also changed.

What once read: " Tuition is $22,000 per year. This includes the $ 120 membership in the Technion Student Union."

PER YEAR - this leads you to believe that that will be your tuition per year for the years that you are there.

When tuition was raised the website was changed to say.
" Tuition for the 2007-2008 academic year is $22,000 (US$)

Additional student association, security and welfare fees are set by the Technion and are updated yearly. For 2007/8 academic year the additional fees are $187 (US$)."

The argument can be made that when we came here we were implicitly promised that tuition would be $22,000 and that we would be grandfathered into it.

When they raised tuition they sent us a notice that said
"As other universities over the world and in Israel, we have also come to the conclusion that we need to raise tuition on a yearly basis, in order to progress forward and ensure that the students will be able to receive more administrative/ advisor support while maintaining the high level quality of teaching."

There plan is not to just raise tuition because of the dollar but to
raise it on a yearly basis.

As a class we considered going to the administration and talking to them, telling them that we are upset with the raise in tuition, but understood it, but wanted to make sure that we were protected. If the tuition was tied to the shekel, we want it to be that way both when it gains and loses value. And we want them to set % caps on raises (As israeli law governs the raises in tuition of israeli students).

Before we got to bring any of our points across, we received the infamous letter from the Program Director stating:

"Ill suggest that you first pay, those who are not willing to pay are allowed to leave Although I am not obligated Ill find the time to explain to you how things are working in the program"

That is a very thoughtless response to a group of students who just want to talk.

The final straw with tuition: The forms notifying us of our tuition hike were the same forms telling us about the schools insurance policy. They told us that we MUST hand these in signed. Many of us weren't ready to sign off on a tuition increase without knowing the reasons and that there are caps to how much they can raise. So they told us that if we wanted to collect our PLUS loans (loans many of us use to live day to day) we would need to hand in the form. Holding us by our throat at our weakest moment.

The sentiment in the class is that the administration doesn't show any concern for the students. They don't treat us as if we have any rights (which ironically we do not because there is no written policy that fully applies to us). But we try to fight for them to treat us better, all the while being in class for 8-10 hour days and working on assignments and studying. It is a tough program, but most of us get through it.

Personally, I think I could do a lot better with the support of the administration. But I make do with what I have and fight to make improvements for the future years. The program is good, and is improving. The administration needs to change their attitudes and begin looking out for the students. We are willing to work with them but they need to be open to it.

I can't emphasize enough though, that this program is a TERRIFIC one as far as education goes. The extra work and time we need to put in to do it in spite of the administration really shows the character of the students in this program. I am confident that the majority of us will get competitive residencies and that we'll arrive with equal if not greater than knowledge/experience than the people in the state schools.

[Technoslut]

...I feel that the only way that we can force the administration to start listening to us is by hitting them where it hurts – in their pockets. If next year only 20 students will come, that’s 270K worth of tuition less. Otherwise, they will continue bullying us because they can, and they know that they will get away with it. Even if the incoming class will be sans 4 individuals, that’s 100K that we will have taken away from this school to make up for the 90k that they are so shamelessly stealing from us next year.


This is a message to SleeplessinHaifa, and others who think like him:

Your aims can only be described as very simplistic, foolish and downright stupid. You are delusional if you think that through slandering your own school, you can cause there to be fewer new students each successive year.

There will always be qualified applicants to US Medical schools who don't get the acceptance letter and start looking for alternatives. I remember when I was in that place, and man, I didn't want to go to Mexico, some crappy school in the islands, or have a "D.O." attached to my name.

Consider even that many "Jewish mothers" want their son/daughter to be a doctor, and for that reason alone, there will always be applicants to this school from the States.

Students in various Caribbean schools, such as Ross or AUC, complain about their schools and their schools' administrations all the time! What has it done?

1. Has it caused fewer people to apply to those schools?
(Answer: No, but if anything it has perhaps decreased the caliber of those who apply).

2. Has it caused a change in those schools' dealings with their students?
(Answer: Nope!!! The same complaints you read about from 1996 are the same complaints in 2008!)

Do you really think that you can bring the Technion to their knees? That is so delusional! It is also RETARDED because you are causing injury to YOUR own school's name!

Furthermore, as I know you are very self-interested, if your goals were to succeed, you'd be screwing yourself. Don't you appreciate the fact that there are now 30 American students entering each year? More people who you can perhaps befriend, more people to expand into your social circle, and diversity of backgrounds, opinions, and personality.

Do you wish upon yourself what the "Touro" students have endured? A class size of less than 10 students? Don't you think you'd be disappointed if out of the 10 who came, you could find only 1 (if that) who was sympathetic, a friend thousands of miles from home? What if none of them were available to you, or what if you just all got sick of being with the same f'ing people day-in, day-out? Touro students openly wish they could have had the larger class size that you enjoy, and now wish to ruin.

In summary, think about what you're asking for. Think carefully. Do you wish to harm your school, your own enjoyment for the next few years, and the reputation of your future MD degree? Because, seriously man, spite is one of the stupidest motivations for humanity.

[sleeplessinhaifa]

"simplistic, foolish and downright stupid, RETARDED, stupidest"

Anything else you wanna throw at me while you're at it? First off, I would like to ask you to refrain from using such offensive language - we may be classmates but we're not "best buds" and I will not tolerate this kind of language towards myself again. Next time it happens, I will confront you about it in person since I think at this point we both know who the other person is, so talk to me with some respect please.

As for your concerns. You claim my tactics to be foolish, and sure they might be - but unlike you, I chose not to submit to the administration, even if that is a lost battle. I do not wish to be one of those people in the class who run to the pharmacology professor to apologize for an email that was sent on behalf of the class and made him angry with the class, just to tell him that they had absolutely nothing to do with it and want to make sure he knows it. Nor am I the kind of person who receives exams from the student organization and withholds them from the rest of the class, or remains behind in an anatomy lab after the exam is done to try and quickly score a few extra points to "beat everyone else". Flexibility is a fine quality - but you need to have some principles.

You feel that by slandering the school, I will do nothing but harm to my own future chances while gaining nothing from it. I disagree, first of all - you don't know what you can achieve until you try. I'm sure women's rights and freeing the slaves also seemed like stupid ideas at the time, and most people, even if they disagreed with the current state of events, decided not to fight a futile battle. Now, I am not equating my efforts here to anything on that scale or that importance, but your attitude of just trying to hang in there and hope to get by is something I cannot agree with. With your logic - collaborating with the Nazis would be a great idea, since chances are you will die if you don't.

Again, I am not comparing the administration to anything that heinous, I am just trying to make a point here.

Bottom line is, I feel I have been wronged and I do not want to sit around and pretend like everything is fine and hope that I don't get hit in the next sh*itstorm that gets thrown our way. You have other priorities and other concerns and it's obvious and as a matter of fact you pretty much confessed to it. Your concern is your residency and how the reputation and my "slandering" may hurt you in the future. However, what about those people who are considering coming here? Don't they deserve to know how we, the current students, feel about this program? Or should they learn the same lessons the same way we did? What about their future?

Anyways, I don't want to continue this any further - I've said what I had to say and I'll leave it at that. Bottom line, I did not invent anything here or had to lie about anything - in the end, it's a matter of perspective and a person's ability to deal with aggravating situations. People coming in with attitude such as yours may do wonderfully here, all the power to you. But I also know that me and many others are truly unhappy with the way things are and you can't just sweep that under the rug and pretend like that is not so.

Have a great evening.

[Technoslut]

I did not mean for the previous post to be interpreted as a personal attack.

I'm sorry that you found the language to be offensive; this was not my intention.

[sleeplessinhaifa]

That's fine - there is no reason why we can't be civil to each other, even if we disagree on some issues, right?

[TechSlave]

levtechnion, I must agree with you about your intutition that Awnodrip is a technion administrator. Unfortunately for the administration my previous post above was not a lie, and shows you low communication with our program director has become. I hope that this misinformation campaign by the technion does not go unnoticed by readers. This is another good example of the way students are treated by this administration.

[awnodirp]

..........

[sleeplessinhaifa]

Dear awnodirp,

From what I have been told by others, you are not actually a student at the school. You name is **** and you a prospective applicant for the next year. While I respect your opinion about the greatness of the school, I do not think that it is your place to tell current students that their views about the school are misguided. At the very least - refrain from insulting frustrated students who just voice their frustrations and concerns. After all - we've been through two years of this, you haven't.

P.S

After reading your posts and seeing your intention of going into dermatology, I agree - "watch out derm"....

Edit:

I was asked to edit this so that the name of the applicant will not show, so I did. The point that I am trying to make here is that awnodirp is trying to defend something that he didn't even have a taste of - as a prospective student, who do you think knows what they are talking about here? I honestly believe that he did not do so well on his MCAT and his grades are not so great and this is really the only school he got into. Now he is trying to make himself feel better about this being his only chance of becoming a doctor.

[technionstudent]

There's no need to bring up peoples personal information in a post. If someone is posting here anonymously, respect that. If you want to question the legitimacy of their post, go to town, but leave there name out of it. We all have a right to some anonymity.

[awnodirp]

..........

[TechMDnion]

This thread has reached a new low. Am I really reading the name of an applicant that personally contacted me? I hope for your sake, sleeplessinhaifa, that you are wrong. I agree with awnodrip. Poor form. Whatever happened to anonymity? For this reason I will not publicly announce your identity or your academic issues. You are welcome in advance.

If this thread has taught me anything it is that people will drop to any level to try and prove they are right, even when they are wrong. Although I agreed with SOME of your words in the past, your willingness to drop to this level is troubling. How can you expect to claim credibility when you stoop to such a level? How can you claim that others are hypocrites and then field such an attack?

Your actions have embarrassed me as a current medical student at Technion. Is anyone else with me?

I can say with confidence that technionstudent's posts have painted the most accurate picture of our school.

[sleeplessinhaifa]

I'm sorry if you will find this disappointing - but I do not have any "academic issues."

Why is it that the both of you seem stuck on this idea that the only people who are frustrated are the ones who are not doing so well? Is it really that impossible that I could be doing fine and still not like the way things are around here?

[awnodirp]

.............

[TheGrizz2]

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[TheGrizz2]

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[TheGrizz2]

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Sanjay Orlov]

Finally, after a long distressful wait, the Dean of Medicine himself called a meeting to inform the students today that they will be allowed to remain in the dorms for another year. Unfortunately he was not able guarantee anything beyond next year.

Despite all of the negativity on here, there are still positive outcomes like this one that need to be reported. Truth is, the Dean really did come through for us on this one. For quite some time it seemed like the students were going to be exiled, tossed onto the steamy hot summer streets of Haifa. But in the end Prof. Perlman showed us that if the administration is willing to work with us- we all benefit.

I hear the new dorms closer to school are near completion. Not sure exactly where they are, other than the main street through town (Ha' Atzmaut). Hopefully, these new dorms will change the housing dynamics here for the better.

[sleeplessinhaifa]

I must agree with Sanjay - this is definitely a positive sign from the administration. Happy to see the school willing to help out the students. We all know how big of a societal problem homeless med students are becoming these days.... :)

[levtechnion]

Yes even i will admit things are getting better. awnodrip, the schools great defender, has finaly stopped posting, probably b/c he just got kicked out. all the butt kissing in the world didnt save his self-ritous ****. And I remain.
Bye Awnodrip, I'll miss you dog.