Not accepted in the UK

[paramedictoMD]

The GMC told me on the phone yesterday that they will not recognise spartan as the curriculum does not meet their minimum requirement of 5500 hours. Spartan is only 5200 hours (email from Spartan to confirm this) plus over 50% of the course is delivered outside of St Lucia. The placements which are outside of St Lucia are greater than 50% of the course is outside of the island so the course is considered to be delivered substantially outside of the country of origin.

Despite Spartan continually arguing that the course is 4 academic years, this is nonsense; the course is 3 years however you look at it and does not meet the requirements for a PMQ in the UK.

When you apply for registration in the UK, you have to put your enrolment and graduation dates, how are you going to try and explain the 12 month difference???? A year is a year however you look at it. The course is too short and too much of it is delivered outside of St Lucia to be acceptable to the GMC.

I have asked them to put this in writing and I will update you with a scanned copy of the letter when it arrives.

[paramedictoMD]

Is nobody else bothered that the GMC in the UK has refused to recognise this school? So now it is banned in an entire country as well as several States.

[RN2DR]

your info is not correct. i will give you someone's e mail address if you need direct contact with a recent grad that just started working in the UK.

[paramedictoMD]

The only way they would have gained registration in the UK is if they had lied to the GMC or falsified their records as the GMC have confirmed to me that they will not recognise graduates of Spartan for several reasons: the education is conducted wholly or mainly outside of the country of registration, the course is not long enough (5200 hours compared to 5500) and 3 years compared to 4

Bare in mind that the rules in the UK have very recently changed as well so it is entirely possible that this person was registered before the changes. There are Spartan graduates working in the UK who were obviously licensed before the rules changed.

[paramedictoMD]

Also, unless they are a UK citizen it would have been impossible for them to have gained a training post as the new rules do not permit non UK citizens a training position unless there are NO UK citizens who require a position. As there are more UK graduates than there are training positions it follows that this person must have completed an internship before registering in the UK or they were a UK citizen.

Have you even seen the application for an F1 position? If UK graduates are unable to find a post how on earth did a Spartan grad find one?

If the press got hold of this information there would be a public outcry and it is likely that person would not be in a job for long as there is a waiting list for UK graduates.

[RN2DR]

you obviously have some serious anger issues with this. but, as a matter of fact, my co-graduate is from england. and he just recently went through the process. every caribbean student has to jump through hoops after graduation. i hope you get used to it.

[diogenes]

you obviously have some serious anger issues with this. but, as a matter of fact, my co-graduate is from england. and he just recently went through the process. every caribbean student has to jump through hoops after graduation. i hope you get used to it.
There's a huge difference between a "jump through hoops" and flying under the radar or being economical with the truth about your studies.
Now I'm not suggesting that your colleague did the latter (apart from anything else, I don't wish for an online diagnosis of failed anger management:)). However it might be that he was lucky. Paramedic is right, these rules are very new; moreover the GMC is somewhat chaotic at times: mistakes over eligibility for registration (quaint GMC-speak for licensure) are made - a senior GMC bureaucrat declared as much to me.
However Spartan may well be addressing this issue -
"SHSU curriculum is an accelerated program which could be completed in 36 consecutive calendar months (3 calendar years). Of those,
you must spend 16 months (4 trimesters) in St. Lucia for the basic science and pre- clinical science program and the remaining 20 months
(5 trimesters) in United States for the Clinical training program. In the near future, we will offer a five trimesters of basic sciences and pre-clinical science program".
(taken from the FAQ's on their web site)
I also wonder if there is a let-out in the "could be completed in 36 months"..?


The only way they would have gained registration in the UK is if they had lied to the GMC or falsified their records as the GMC have confirmed to me that they will not recognise graduates of Spartan for several reasons: the education is conducted wholly or mainly outside of the country of registration, the course is not long enough (5200 hours compared to 5500) and 3 years compared to 4

Bare in mind that the rules in the UK have very recently changed as well so it is entirely possible that this person was registered before the changes. There are Spartan graduates working in the UK who were obviously licensed before the rules changed.
There has been some dispute about the number of study hours that Spartans can claim (albeit that doesn't seem to obviate the 50% rule) -
http://www.valuemd.com/spartan-medical-school/124091-warning-uk-students-2.html
although I imagine you are already familiar with that discussion.

[paramedictoMD]

Virtually the same argument from another UK student! I have an email from Spartan confirming the course contact time is 5240 hours. However you look at this, it is still less than the GMC require.

Why would you go to a school which encourages you to lie about how long you have spent at medical school? Even if you took a vacation or prepared to USMLE for a few months it still doesn't detract from the fact that the syllabus is only 36 months and 5240 hours.

Additionally, more than 50% of the programme is conducted outside of the country. If an applicant was honest with the GMC then they would not be eligible to register as a doctor with a Spartan MD. However, it appears that students are lying and falsifying their records. This is a criminal offence in the UK! Even if you just stretched the truth a tiny little bit about how long your study was then you have fraudulently obtained registration.

I don't have anger issues at all pal, but there are hundreds of UK graduates each year who cannot obtain jobs and some dropout with a 3 year degree comes along and steals a position from them.

Let's face it, Spartan is on the slippery slope to closure. If any other school had a courant article about them, had New York taken away, lost loans etc then they would challenge it. They would work their ***** off to rectify the situation.

However, Spartan just rest on their laurels knowing that desperate people will still pay them money to earn a phony MD. If this was my business then I would fight tooth and nail to build it's reputation back up. I would fight for California approval, loans and try to get a new article printed about the school.

Why would anyone go to a school that doesn't care about their reputation, student's ability to practice anywhere in the world or care about the student's, period!!!

In fact other schools in the Caribbean did get their Cali and NY approval back, they got loans back for their students. But what do Spartan do? Tell students to lie, ignore bad press, refuse to challenge or improve the school's bad reputation.

WOW! Sign me up! I want to give them $90k!!!

[diogenes]

..........Why would you go to a school which encourages you to lie about how long you have spent at medical school? .............However, it appears that students are lying and falsifying their records. ...................
You have substantial evidence of these allegations?

[paramedictoMD]

Yes, I have an email from Spartan telling me that they will alter my transcipt to show 5500 hours, telling me to take time to revise for USMLE and that this would make it look as though I had been at Spartan for longer.

Additionally, after telling me initially that they would arrange all my rotations; I now find out that I would have to arrange my own rotations in the UK! Go figure!

The GMC have also advised hospitals not to allow Spartan students to complete rotations there. Only students from approved medical schools are allowed to rotate in UK hospitals since the St Chris/London College incident.

[RN2DR]

man, you surely have issues! so go somewhere else. the school seems to be more directed at getting students to the US rather than GB. (as most of the teachers are still trying to get into the US). the admin is poorly run (no doubt). but, the degree from spartan is not "PHONY"--as you put it. as i am a current resident in florida (without lying or "stretching" the truth).

[paramedictoMD]

I don't have issues at all I just want people to know the truth about this school. I hate being lied to and I hate being misled!

Also had a chat with Jackson Park who have said they are not happy with Spartan students rotating there and the only way they can get rotations is through a private company who hand out the dregs that are left after the schools with contracts have placed their students.

So Spartan has NO contracts with hospitals, students have to find their own rotations, they constantly lie in order to get your money, they withold loan cheques, they are offering to lie in order to mislead the GMC and encourage students to do the same, banned in several states and an entire country, lost loans, several damaging articles that haven't been challenged or acknowledged.

And all the time they are still lying to potential students to get their money for a worthless piece of paper.

Did you have the pre-requisites for Florida or did you lie about those as well? I trust you had all the chem, bio, phys etc if so, why didn't you go to a US school? Any student with the pre-reqs would do well in a US school. So why go to the worst school in the world?

I am assuming that your username means you were a nurse, surely an RN would breeze through MCAT and would have no problems getting into a US school? Or at least a better school than Spartan.

[ASIANDOC]

Anger and allegations against a foreign school accusing them giving phony degrees is a serious statment and if the school ignore such allegations,some might take legal action due to spreading serious damaging rumors,you are accusing the hundreds of licensed grads in USA,the ECFMG,FSMB,speciality boards,and licensing boards of certifying "phoney grads",your statment is direct insult to all of them.
I am not here to support spartan or anyone else [On the conterary I do not recommend going to non CA approved school in today's enviroment] but your allegation[phony degree] is baseless since they have hundreds whom degree evaluated and certified by most states and boards.
the info you presenting are old[disapproval,other issues] and disscussed here zillion times.
regarding the 3 v 4 years education, the total # of hours that most carribean schools use should meet state boards,I practiced in a state that is obssessed with one requirement" completion of 4 academis year" and nothing wrong of completing med education in 3 years "if a student elect to take the summer trimesters or 4 academis/3 calendar year",I sat on the credential committee and the total med education is same [depands if taken all year around or not] and all applications for license were approved after very careful calculations.
I can't comment on UK

[azskeptic]

GMC | Registration for doctors (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/index.asp)

and be sure you read

GMC | International Medical Graduates - important information (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/work_permits/index.asp)

[paramedictoMD]

You can read it for yourself on the GMC website, there are simply not enough hours in the course to qualify you for registration. So.... if anyone has gained registration this is because they have misled the GMC. I have spoken to them again today and they want me to put my concerns in writing. Rest assured that no further Spartan graduates will get licensed in the UK.

[UHSADOC]

http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/GMC_tomorrows_doctors.pdf

Read the attached article Tomorrow's Docs.

In addition to:
GMC | Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/registration_news/new_framework/faqs.asp)

Medical Schools site visits:
GMC | Information for medical schools (http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/undergraduate_qa/information_for_medical_schools.asp)

Spartan should be ok, there are many 36 months programs out there.....w/o breaks.....so that would be acceptable as the GMC require min of 32 months of education.

[specialknyc]

wow that is a lot of ranting and raving...

UK is ok. There are students who have completed their training there and are now practicing (from what I have heard) and there are more planning on going. I did not have to set up my own rotations, neither did any of my friends.

The truth about the school is in no way related to your statements.
______________________________________

qouting you: "I don't have issues at all I just want people to know the truth about this school. I hate being lied to and I hate being misled!"

if anyone is being misled it is those who believe what you claim.

[cahsu2005]

I have met many UK citizens with such passion.
It is too bad many see it as anger in North America.

paramedictoMD

your statements are only half-truths, if you didn't want to look for rotations yourself they will arrange for you to go to rotations but without your choosing. If you have a place in mind then YES you MAY have to arrange that yourself.

I know of many UK students at Spartan and one did transfer out but he seemed just too angry all the time....hmmm.... kind of like you.

Another few are doing very well in the UK doing rotations and have no problems whatsoever.(of course they are UK citizens - if you are not a citizen then you have your own problems)

There are many partially true and misleading stories out there, but in the end depending on your citizenship and so called jumping through hoops you can be a doc in the UK.

If you feel so blatantly upset about the school already, please choose a different school and leave Spartan alone. It is the misinformed that are creating such a poor name for Spartan. eg. misinformed writers and newspapers who are trying to get some form of attention...but that is the american way....just look at the new candidates and their misconceptions on each other.

I hope you find your way.

[a1y25m13]

guys let's face it shsu is the oldest & still the best carib med school. other carib som are required to get into shsu. just becuz we spartanites don't want to tell others we've been at other carib som prior to shsu , doesn't mean that GMC also doesn't know of shsu's pre-selection criterias. now that leaves us with jackson or setting up our own rotations. good luck to all of you..... ps for loans find a mate with good credit & get a personal loan from b of a , don't let news stop your endeavors plenty of room for all spartanites to become drs.

[handsomeroses100]

The truth is spartan graduates will not able to work in UK and not only spartan lots of medical school even AUC but this will change as the GMC law in uk changes but it will take time i suppose.I live in Uk but i cannot say why the GMC decided to include spartans name and i can confirm that spartans name was added to the list recently just less than 3months .Unfortunately spartan is number 1 on the list but with the new owner things will change lets be optimistic

[paramedictoMD]

I don't expect people to apologise and I don't like to say "don't forget I told you so" but here it is in writing:

Primary medical qualifications not accepted by the GMC
The following medical schools are currently listed in the WHO directory of medical schools. The GMC, however, is not satisfied that the qualifications issued by these schools meet all five criteria for an acceptable overseas qualification. At the present time, the GMC is not registering graduates who hold primary medical qualifications obtained from the medical schools listed below. Graduates from these schools are not permitted to make a booking or to take the Professional and Linguistic Assessments Board (PLAB) test.
Spartan Health Sciences University
St Lucia

GMC | Acceptable primary medical qualification (http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/registration_applications/join_the_register/acceptable_primary_medical_qualification.asp)

Spartan is not accepted for registration in the UK and neither is LSMU

[specialknyc]

Why a new thread for the same topic?
Whats the point?

[paramedictoMD]

Because I am on dial up and my post didn't show up so I started a new thread. Plus, why not reiterate the point and make doubly sure that nobody else is ripped off by these scam artists!

[dt]

supposedly the additional, soon-to-be fifth basic science semester will address the uk issue. will it? and will gmc care?

[specialknyc]

Because I am on dial up and my post didn't show up so I started a new thread. Plus, why not reiterate the point and make doubly sure that nobody else is ripped off by these scam artists!


I am sorry that you feel the world should be handed to you on a silver platter.

"Scam artists" they are not. The school never lied about loans (at least to me or my friends). They told me that they did not have them and that they were trying to get them. They are not alone with this problem, a lot of carib. schools are in similar situations at this point. Which as a side note is pretty odd considering that about 1/3 of US doctors are FMG's (dont hold me to that number). You would think the Gov. would appreciate the fact that we are helping with a medical doctor shortage... instead they make it harder. Kind of counterproductive in my opinion. SHSU never lied to me about where I could go for rotations, they never lied about what was offered at the school. Anyway you get the point of my experiences... And aside from one or two bitter classmates who felt that they should be handed everything I know nobody else who feels like you do.

I think the one point that many people miss is that Caribbean schools (maybe st. Georges aside) do not do much beyond getting you through the program. Students are pretty much on their own. Which is fine... it is what it is. Whatever your reason for not getting into a US school (which would have made a lot of peoples lives a lot easier) you chose medicine as your career. The road is really bumpy with lots of blind curves that seem to never end and the light at the end of the tunnel does not seem as bright for us as it does (many times) for US students with similar scores, rotations and letters of ref.. In the end though, after dealing with all the garbage that gets tossed at Carib. medical students they still get the opportunity to help people and are still called *Doctor*. If being bitter gets you through the process go for it. But the point remains the same... slander against a institution that has given you the very opportunity to pursue and help you realize your dream seems petty.

I may have said this before but I will say it again... I am sorry if your experiences have not been similar to mine or my classmates. Still though slander (that seems unfounded to me) will get you nowhere.


________________________________________________


DT: I wonder about the 5th trimester as well. I mostly wonder if it will help with NY and Cali (eventually). As for the GMC I do not see a reason for them to leave SHSU on the list once the 5th trimester is added if we meet all the other criteria. Eventually we will find out though.