My reaction to our clinicals

[NicSTX]

It's been 2 days since receiving my pass on my Step 1 and I can honestly say I'm not happy. I am learning things too late that would have been more convenient if told me to me while I was twiddling my thumbs after my test and before my score. Things could have been told to me in 5th semester when I had to scramble around and get tests done that don't even matter or aren't valid for my clinicals.

For example:
What's OSHA? What's a HIPAA certificate?

Oh, in case you didn't know either, they're forms you need to have before you go to a hospital. Something you're dismissively told to complete from some phantom online course. What online course? You're not told that - you need to figure that out on your own.

Here's my suggestion to AUA. Use our 5th semester for what it's supposed to be used for. Tell us about clinicals, what to expect, what documents and forms we need, how to get them and maybe keep that paper around that tells you where we want to do our clinicals - we put time into those. Maybe you could even help find ways of getting these courses done together instead of telling us to find the courese online.

I don't think it's ok that things like my MMR titers are mandatory when my vaccines use to be sufficient, nor do I think that telling me last second that I need my OSHA or my HIPAA certificates when I'm trying to place myself into what seems like a helpless clinical situation. I could have checked off a little box on my HIV blood test adding that and i would have saved myself a lot of time and grief had i known the titer was necessary.

I don't think AUA is prepared for this incoming class, and I don't like how non of my calls have been answered and the only correspondence has been through e mail (I would like to however add that Dr. C has been very helpful and actually answers his phone/returns messages).

Day 2 does not look too promising... I'm hoping day 3 will turn out much better.

[Atrain97]

Well it seems you at least have gotten some answers 2 days later I have yet to speak to my advisor after 3 phone calls and an email. The only answers I have gotten is from people who have gotten to speak to someone. I don't know why I believed that once I passed the Step I would somehow be treated like a person.

[Sree Cheruku]

Congratulations on passing.


Things could have been told to me in 5th semester
It's only going to get worse in the clinicals. You're going to have to organize everything like crazy and make copies of every official document like Step 1 scores, your medical clearance, grades from each rotation etc. - because everything that can go wrong will go wrong.

Oh, and make sure you schedule Pediatrics as soon as humanly possible. That's the hard-to-get rotation and Ross just signed an agreement with Wyckoff for 60 more spots (bumping non-Ross students) and this goes into effect 7/08.

[octavio]

hey sree, when all is said and done, how long do you think it will have taken you to graduate from AUA due to all the waiting and little inconviences? 4 yrs? 5yrs? One more question....how many times have you moved since starting clinicals? Much appreciated.

[canal]

after reading these posts, its a little discouraging...can someone tell me what I should do now as a 5th semester to prepare for clinicals?
what paper work, medical tests, letters of rec.,...should I begin doing...thanks for all your help

[Sree Cheruku]

Will take me 3 years 8 months to graduate. The reason being that I moved lots and lots and lots of times (Chicago, Baltimore, Michigan, New York) to ensure that I was enrolled in accredited rotations. Also, I scheduled all my rotations back to back - taking no time off even for Christmas or New Years. For example, last Friday I finished in Michigan. Saturday, I drove to NY and Monday I started my next rotation. Most people find that difficult/annoying - I got used to it. Got used to air beds and lean cuisine and packing everything I own into the back of my car for cross country trips.

As a fifth semester student, the only thing you should be worried about is getting the highest score possible on Step 1. The day you get your Step 1 score back, call your counselor and have her schedule Pediatrics at Wyckoff (or San Juan) as soon as possible. Take the Step 1 score waiting period to make a list of medical specialties your interested in, plan your electives etc. Learn about Greenbook rotations and educate your colleagues. While people complain that we can't be licensed to practice medicine in California, we can't practice in 25 other states either if we don't have Greenbook rotations.

[NicSTX]

Day three went much better. I got my certificates (about to finish my HIPAA) and I have been informed I'm starting at harbor hospital on monday. Harbor also allowed me to get my titers done there, which was a blessing. I got my MMRV and my Hep B (just in case) so that there's no random lab i have to do again later

Now if I could only speak to someone in the clinical department so I can set up my schedule - I'll be happy.

Atrain - call me/e mail me so I can give you a heads up as to what I've heard

Sree - thanks for the heads up, I'll try to get myself into peds asap - could you e mail me what you were talking about with the recommendations and extra copies of things? I want to be prepared (e mail should be on my facebook :) )

[NicSTX]

So wycoff and san juan are the only 2 peds greenbooks? What have you heard about them, what should I aim for?

[grobble]

Congratulations on passing.


AUA won't advise you on things like greenbook rotations, letters of recommendation, evaluation forms, away electives, Dean's letters, etc. etc. until it's too late.

Actually AUA just sent out what they called "Residency Boot Camp Training Manual" which outlines deadlines, what you should do for ERAS,ECFMG, get from te school, send to the school, LOR, Dean's Letter process, and evryhting about the Match for those Matching in 2009. They seem to be on top of things for match for 2009.

[Jakeislove]

Do electives have to be at accredited hospitals as well?

[Sree Cheruku]

too late. Actually AUA just sent out what they called "Residency Boot Camp Training Manual" which outlines deadlines, what you should do for ERAS,ECFMG, get from te school, send to the school, LOR, Dean's Letter process, and evryhting about the Match for those Matching in 2009. They seem to be on top of things for match for 2009.
That's what I meant by too late. This stuff needs to be sent out when students begin rotating, not 6 months before they graduate (in my case). For example, most people I know haven't been collecting comments from their preceptors for use in the Dean's letter.

Before the school sent out the Bootcamp thing a few weeks ago, I figured I'd be on my own in terms of applying for the match.

Do electives have to be at accredited hospitals as well?
Only if you want to practice in TX and PA.

[grobble]

That's what I meant by too late. This stuff needs to be sent out when students begin rotating, not 6 months before they graduate (in my case). For example, most people I know haven't been collecting comments from their preceptors for use in the Dean's letter.

Before the school sent out the Bootcamp thing a few weeks ago, I figured I'd be on my own in terms of applying for the match.
Only if you want to practice in TX and PA.


Well the preceptor comments can be easily corrected ,as I attach a sheet to the AUA evaluation sheet for comments. It's good for knowing what you should work on aor did well. Maybe I'm weird but I usually just ask 1/2 way into a rotation what I need to work on, etc... I have made the suggestion to change the official evaluation sheet, so maybe if enough people make the same suggestion it will occur.

For 2009 they have provided adequate info a year in advance. For 2008 I guess they didn't. I believe they were not on the ball, sorry you had to be the test subjects. But, maybe the same questions being asked by 2008 Match stduents caused the formation of the packet for 2009. They could probably get away with not having a packet and give individual info for 2008. I think the 2008 class is still pretty small. Do you know how many? The 2009 class will be around 60 based on the original mass mail.

[octavio]

How difficult is it to get all green elective rotations. Reason Im asking is because I'm from Texas. I've always thought that AUA grads can't practice in Texas, only grads from the big 3 schools.

[Jakeislove]

That's what I meant by too late. This stuff needs to be sent out when students begin rotating, not 6 months before they graduate (in my case). For example, most people I know haven't been collecting comments from their preceptors for use in the Dean's letter.

Before the school sent out the Bootcamp thing a few weeks ago, I figured I'd be on my own in terms of applying for the match.
Only if you want to practice in TX and PA.

Thanks!

I really hope the school starts taking some things more seriously an coordinating better. I'm extra pissed about the student loan issue with CLSF and am pretty tired of doing the same dance every other semester. Step 1 is in a few weeks and worrying about loans and so on is not a good use of my time.

On a good note, I found a hospital to accept students for family practice. According to the contact person, the school's people were pretty easy to work with. I was a little concerned that the whole thing wouldn't come together.

I understand it's a new school but they're greedy and growing faster than their infrastructure can handle. Hopefully they get things straightened out before more people start leaving the island because it will get pretty ugly for upcoming students. A lot of schools are having a hard time getting slots for their own students so getting accepted as a third year transfer to another off-shore school probably that easy.

JIL

[grobble]

How difficult is it to get all green elective rotations. Reason Im asking is because I'm from Texas. I've always thought that AUA grads can't practice in Texas, only grads from the big 3 schools.

I have all Green IM electives scheduled at the same hospital. I scheduled them myself and just notified my clinical coordinator of the dates and had them send the paperwork. Hopefully I can get a few electives at other places I'm interested in matching and cancel one or two at this hospital.

[Sree Cheruku]

How difficult is it to get all green elective rotations. Reason Im asking is because I'm from Texas. I've always thought that AUA grads can't practice in Texas, only grads from the big 3 schools.


It depends on your field of interest. IM and Psych are really easy as AUA has lots of places with either ACGME-accredited IM/Psych residencies and fellowships. If you're not going into primary care though, it's a little more difficult. I've had to set up my own rotations at university hospitals, but AUA does a good job of approving that now.

[NicSTX]

could someone please forward me this packet?

:) *ahem* sree?

[TRICKYDRD]

Yeah, can someone be a point of contact to forward this info to other AUA students? I would like a copy as well. Any mistakes I can avoid means a smoother ride.

Doug

[Sree Cheruku]

You should call DR at the NY office (18882828633) for the Match packet because you have to fill out some form and mail it, etc. That way they know that you're planning to participate in the 2009 match.

[kula]

Which greenbook hospitals are AUA students allowed to do ALL cores in? is there none?
since sree mentioned that he had to move around alot to complete all greenbook cores....
I also forgot the fact that some hospitals can be greenbook in one core/elective but not necessarily greenbook in another core? Am I right/wrong?
AUA should post which cores/electives are greenbook in each hospital they list on their website. It would be helpful to prospective students like me to get more info on the clinical situation.

[Sree Cheruku]

Wyckoff allows you to do most cores - except Psych, which you can get done at St. John's Episcopal.


I also forgot the fact that some hospitals can be greenbook in one core/elective but not necessarily greenbook in another core? Am I right/wrong?

Right.

[urgentcase]

well what about blue book rotations? The DO accredited ones. They are still fair game right?


Will take me 3 years 8 months to graduate. The reason being that I moved lots and lots and lots of times (Chicago, Baltimore, Michigan, New York) to ensure that I was enrolled in accredited rotations. Also, I scheduled all my rotations back to back - taking no time off even for Christmas or New Years. For example, last Friday I finished in Michigan. Saturday, I drove to NY and Monday I started my next rotation. Most people find that difficult/annoying - I got used to it. Got used to air beds and lean cuisine and packing everything I own into the back of my car for cross country trips.

As a fifth semester student, the only thing you should be worried about is getting the highest score possible on Step 1. The day you get your Step 1 score back, call your counselor and have her schedule Pediatrics at Wyckoff (or San Juan) as soon as possible. Take the Step 1 score waiting period to make a list of medical specialties your interested in, plan your electives etc. Learn about Greenbook rotations and educate your colleagues. While people complain that we can't be licensed to practice medicine in California, we can't practice in 25 other states either if we don't have Greenbook rotations.

[Sree Cheruku]

well what about blue book rotations? The DO accredited ones. They are still fair game right?

Blue book rotations are those that are affiliated with a Family Medicine program. They're not acceptable in the states that require Green rotations. Osteopathic rotations are safer in my opinion, because certain states like New York consider them to be equal to Green rotations, but contact your state board for more information.

[g6pddfishnc]

I thought that Blue Book meant osteopathic/DO/AOA accredited? Am I confusing this with Family Medicine rotations/programs?

[Sree Cheruku]

Bluebook = Family-affiliated, This type of rotation is only accepted in places like New York (only if done OUTSIDE New York) and California (where AUA students can't be licensed anyway).

Osteopathic rotation = accredited by the AOA. This type is ok in certain DO-friendly states like New York.

[g6pddfishnc]

Okay Sree, thanks for clearing that up...but just to make sure that I understand correctly, when you say 'family-affiliated', do you mean approved by AAFP (American Association of Family Physicians) or something like that, because I thought that FM is a specialty like IM, Peds, Psych, Ob/Gyn, etc.

By the way, I posted a follow-up question in the license thread I started. Thanks for the info!

[Sree Cheruku]

when you say 'family-affiliated'

When I say family affiliated, I'm referring to a non-Family Medicine rotation in a hospital that contains an ACGME-accredited residency program in Family Medicine or is affiliated with such a residency program.

For example, the Pediatrics rotation at St. Joe's in Michigan is affiliated with the Family Medicine residency program at NOMC. However, neither hospital has an ACGME-accredited residency program in Pediatrics. So, the rotation is Bluebook rather than Greenbook.

[Jakeislove]

Sree,

I really appreciate your taking the time to educate us on this matter.

Being accepted into a residency in a state where one couldn't get licensure would be a disaster. It's very likely residency programs automatically reject people who have license issues.

What's your guess as to how long until a graduate has to sit out the match and re-take some rotations?

[g6pddfishnc]

Sree, thanks for clarifying. I think I understand this much better now. Going with your example of peds at st. joe's in michigan, being bluebook outside of NY it is likely to be accepted in NY. However if you you take the example of southside hospital which only has a residency in FM, and only offers a greenbook rotation in FM, but (just as an example), if that hospital were to offer an ob/gyn rotation affiliated with the program, it would also be bluebook, but not accepted in NY because it is in NY. So we would be better off at a DO hospital/rotation in that case (at least for NY). Do I have that right?

To Jake,

I think there is something called a limited license in some states (that is only valid for a few years) for residency purposes, but someone please correct me on that if I'm mistaken.

Thanks again!

[Jakeislove]

No idea about the limited license. Sorry.

[Sree Cheruku]

As an AUA grad, you should have no problem getting a temporary (aka. limited) license which allows you to practice under supervision during your residency in many states, even some of those which are stricter about licensing in general.

[urgentcase]

As an AUA grad, you should have no problem getting a temporary (aka. limited) license which allows you to practice under supervision during your residency in many states, even some of those which are stricter about licensing in general.

hm, so does this mean that when you enter your internship year you already need a license to practice medicine under supervision? How and when must one apply?

[whats_up_doc]

When you match in March, your employer will take you through the process. You will be able to apply to the state board is which you will be doing your residency. different states have different laws in regards in foreign grad and their schools. You can check out the medical board for the state you are interested in doing your residency.

State Medical Boards, Physician Licensing Boards, State Boards of Medicine Directory (http://www.nvo.com/promedica/licensingboards/),