It's nice to be considered a bother to Interns?

[Macgyver1]

Well its only my 4th day and I feel pretty scuted out or ignored... I wondered how much self learning was involved, well I guess for my current Intern MOST OF IT. I hope in the future I get some Interns that actually teach some. I can understand they are busy, but a little effort would be greatly appreciated.

I know I have worse coming before better... but no one likes being shuffled around and made to feel useless.


:shock::shock::shock:

[FOID]

if you don't mind me asking, which hospital are you at?

[YODA]

yes there is a lot of self learning....push your residents to teach..... they have more time and more of a complete picture.

the best things for you to learn is the basic workup for common problems....what tests to run for CHF exacerbation, what ABx for pnumonia CAP vs. HAP, what test to run first ect..

and really work on taking a proper H/P...what i wished i had learned more of was how to take a good H/P and then as a 4th year how to write orders.

good luck

[DRDRWMD]

I feel quite useless most everyday. I try to make sure I learn something everyday. Remember, we are paying like $190 a day to be there, although that sounds just depressing.

[stephew]

be careful. Remember, interns have a miserable life. While they're supposed to teach, if you are felt to rude or disrespectful, this isnt going to help you in the long term.

yes there is a lot of self learning....push your residents to teach..... they have more time and more of a complete picture.

the best things for you to learn is the basic workup for common problems....what tests to run for CHF exacerbation, what ABx for pnumonia CAP vs. HAP, what test to run first ect..

and really work on taking a proper H/P...what i wished i had learned more of was how to take a good H/P and then as a 4th year how to write orders.

good luck

[FOID]

also learn from fellow students. compare how to make H&P, how to treat, etc.

[stateofequilibrium]

Well its only my 4th day and I feel pretty scuted out or ignored... I wondered how much self learning was involved, well I guess for my current Intern MOST OF IT. I hope in the future I get some Interns that actually teach some. I can understand they are busy, but a little effort would be greatly appreciated.

I know I have worse coming before better... but no one likes being shuffled around and made to feel useless.


:shock::shock::shock:

Like all things in life, there are good interns and there are bad interns. Probably be as politely assertive as you can. Interns, while being on the bottom of the totem pole themselves, can make your life and grade miserable.

[Sunster99]

are you in Baltimore right now Macgyver?

[Macgyver1]

nope in CT...

Interesting day today. Maybe Im wrong, but I have no way to tell. I got yelled out today because I didn't study and keep up with material inbetween step1 and clinicals...because I couldn't quote perfectly the types of anemia and how to diagnose them. I guess I should have known this and most other stuff on my 5th day in clinical medicine at my 1st rotation in a new hospital in a new town. :D:D

Just venting off steam though... :)

[Macgyver1]

sunster, where u heading??

[levator]

i am intern now. I have 2 students, one third and one fourth year (from AUC). its a challenge to teach well. just make sure you remember what it was like to be a student when you are an intern. i keep it in mind everyday and try to keep them involved as much as possible.

[Macgyver1]

I tell myself that everyday I get upset :) Im going to try and make it a learning experience and try to the best of my ability to involve and teach when I can. Above all be polite and not condescending. I'll get the hang of it soon, and probally be fine. Just gonna take some time :)

[Lil786]

Well get used to the yelling b/c thats all you'll get at St.Marys next!!!! And I think I know which intern your talking about at griffin!! Just keep going it will be over soon. At least I hope so.

[swimguy23]

i am intern now. I have 2 students, one third and one fourth year (from AUC). its a challenge to teach well. just make sure you remember what it was like to be a student when you are an intern. i keep it in mind everyday and try to keep them involved as much as possible.

I always feel bad if I'm not paying as much attention to my students that i would like to. With 10 patients tho it can be quite hectic to get everything done, tests ordered, consults called, notes written. It's not bad but often times unexpected things happen. The students that I see get the most out of rotations are the ones that read up on patients and ask questions based on that like "Your patient was febrile and tachypneic why did you think it was a PE and why did you order a CTA and not a VQ scan?" Then you can talk about it

[Scientific]

It's a shame that you got a bad rotation. It all really depends on what residents you get, what hospital you are at, etc. Try to know which residents in your group are better at teaching. Some people just can't teach, honestly don't have the time, and/or don't like to teach etc., so first get that straight and just stay away from the ones who aren't going to teach. If the interns are a lost cause, don't be afraid to ask the R2. I actually had a lot of R2s (and sometimes R3s) that were more than willing to teach me. They may have more extra time than the interns and they have more experience so you'll get a better perspective anyway. I've even had some attendings that loved to have students follow them during the day so definately take advantage of that if you ever get that opportunity. Secondly, know your residents' schedules. Certain times of the day are impossible to get quality time (such as right before rounds, early in the morning, etc.). It's not that they don't want to teach you, but they may simply be too busy. Try to observe when they have some down time and hang around them during that time(but don't be annoying about it). Also, oncall days are GREAT for learning. Instead of going to the library all day/night, hang around with the residents (but don't be too clingy...give them some space), and you'll learn a ton.

Now this is not to say that some residents/attendings aren't just jerks who won't teach you because I've encountered some like that. When this does happen, you still have some options. For example, while I was in ICU, our attendings were EXCELLENT, but they were only on the floor for rounds. For the rest of the day, I had one R2 who was really smart and willing to answer questions, but honestly didn't have much time to teach. The intern had the time but either gave bad information or was on the internet all day long........I didn't even bother to ask him half the time. Seeing that I wouldn't be learning much from the residents, I saw that there were other people who can teach you other than the residents. For example, we had a nurse practitioner who knew more than the residents about ICU patient management, we also had a respiratory therapist who VOLUNTEERED to give us some lectures/let us follow him. Get the knowledge however you can, but just be respectful of the fact that nurses/therapists/etc are not being paid to teach you so they are doing YOU a big favor. If you find that ALL of your rotations at a certain hospital have bad residents then by all means, switch hospitals ASAP. You can't learn all of medicine from a book so if you must switch hospitals, even if it prolongs your graduation, then do whatever you have to do to make sure that you are learning during your rotations. This is your only chance to learn hands on and you are paying for these people to teach you. If you aren't learning and/or they aren't teaching then by all means leave. Hope this helps.

[AUCMD2006]

good advice overall. i always try to teach and make sure i asign things to read up on that we saw or procedures to learn and do. therer are good residents and bad residents my advice is to latch on and learn as much as you can from those willing to teach and avoid those that don't teach at all costs. if someone teaches you offer to help with some scut, if someone gives you nothing but scut learn the disappearing med student trick and use the time to study...if they need you they will page you.

what you need to do is learn how to do an H&P. whatever patients you see that day read up on whatever book you use then when you review for step 2 it will be old news and you just nee dto study things that aren't common. by doing this little studying each day i was able to take step 2 while still in rotations and took no time off to study for it. by learning h&ps you can also make it easier on step 2 cs..doing that i took cs during a rotation and took no time off

there is also another half to the equation. i will allways take time out to teach those who are interested, ask questions, and do their share. i allways point things out that are step 2 relevant and whoever is interested in obgyn i will allow them to do a lot more things and ask attendings if they can do more of a case. i've had students that have been great at keeping up with reading i gave them, and when i took time out to teach basic surgical skill, knots, etc they took initiative and asked me for sutire to take home and practice..next time we were in the OR and i was closing i handed them the sutures and they tied knots and even have helped me with scar revisions. those ineterested i let put in foleys, ng tubes, iv's etc. then there is the other half who just doesn't get it. had some that i taught knot tying then in the OR they look like they've never seen sutire before and end up stuck retracting and cutting string all case. i have one student right now that did a major bowel surgery with me two days ago, no post op check, didn't round yesterday because alarm didn't go off no big deal we laughed it off, didn't round today because was running late so i took the patient load of my 2 other students who bust their butts gave it to him and told him i will round at 5am with him the next two days while my 2 other students sleep in til 7am and assigned him a presentation to do can you guess.

[Macgyver1]

End of Week 2...

Still learning a lot! Ive finally have the routine down, and understand everyones expectations, not just my own. I feel more comfortable talking to attendings and consults now and dont feel totally useless doing a H&P, since ive done a few now. Still got a while to go, but still need more practice. The Intern situation is about same, slightly better.

The only thing I wish was better was doing more clinical work/procedures. So far I have yet to start a IV, draw blood or start a folley. I have did a PPD yesterday, but think I went too deep in the dermis. I hope we dont have to repeat it.

More to come...

[levator]

good advice overall. i always try to teach and make sure i asign things to read up on that we saw or procedures to learn and do. therer are good residents and bad residents my advice is to latch on and learn as much as you can from those willing to teach and avoid those that don't teach at all costs. if someone teaches you offer to help with some scut, if someone gives you nothing but scut learn the disappearing med student trick and use the time to study...if they need you they will page you.

what you need to do is learn how to do an H&P. whatever patients you see that day read up on whatever book you use then when you review for step 2 it will be old news and you just nee dto study things that aren't common. by doing this little studying each day i was able to take step 2 while still in rotations and took no time off to study for it. by learning h&ps you can also make it easier on step 2 cs..doing that i took cs during a rotation and took no time off

there is also another half to the equation. i will allways take time out to teach those who are interested, ask questions, and do their share. i allways point things out that are step 2 relevant and whoever is interested in obgyn i will allow them to do a lot more things and ask attendings if they can do more of a case. i've had students that have been great at keeping up with reading i gave them, and when i took time out to teach basic surgical skill, knots, etc they took initiative and asked me for sutire to take home and practice..next time we were in the OR and i was closing i handed them the sutures and they tied knots and even have helped me with scar revisions. those ineterested i let put in foleys, ng tubes, iv's etc. then there is the other half who just doesn't get it. had some that i taught knot tying then in the OR they look like they've never seen sutire before and end up stuck retracting and cutting string all case. i have one student right now that did a major bowel surgery with me two days ago, no post op check, didn't round yesterday because alarm didn't go off no big deal we laughed it off, didn't round today because was running late so i took the patient load of my 2 other students who bust their butts gave it to him and told him i will round at 5am with him the next two days while my 2 other students sleep in til 7am and assigned him a presentation to do can you guess.



great post.

congrats on MCG. I probably will c ya up there sometime.

[AUCMD2006]

great post.

congrats on MCG. I probably will c ya up there sometime.

hey whats up? yea she said you head out that way once in a while..will see you there

[lsudoc1855]

End of Week 2...

Still learning a lot! Ive finally have the routine down, and understand everyones expectations, not just my own. I feel more comfortable talking to attendings and consults now and dont feel totally useless doing a H&P, since ive done a few now. Still got a while to go, but still need more practice. The Intern situation is about same, slightly better.

The only thing I wish was better was doing more clinical work/procedures. So far I have yet to start a IV, draw blood or start a folley. I have did a PPD yesterday, but think I went too deep in the dermis. I hope we dont have to repeat it.

More to come...

You will get the H & P stuff down easy. It just takes time. And once you have it down, you get faster and faster. For the clinical work, I am not sure. Maybe volunteer. I know at Lutheran in Brooklyn, you pretty much get comfortable drawing blood, ABG's NG's, Foleys, drawing from triple lumens, etc after the first week of medicine. In surgery, its expected.
As far as interns/residents I agree with the other posts. They are really busy. Some are really good and willing to teach. Some are not. Some are practically worthless all around. Make their life easier and most of them will teach you. Also Macgyver, I can promise you that your intern is running lines, ABG's, NG's, Foleys, all the time. Its pretty much their job. So tell them that you would like to see them "put in an NG tube." See one, do one, teach one. There are always residents around stating "who hasnt done ... " insert anything. You could be that guy/girl learning those essential techniques that doctors arent certified to do (phlebotomist, etc), that nurses should be doing, and that you will be passing off as chief resident some day.