A solution?

[paramedictoMD]

OK, I have read lots of complaints about Spartan and the quality of tuition there and a lot of people have complained that essentially they are self studying there.

So here is an idea. Use Spartan (or any other school) to get an MD. As Spartan is only 3 years take a year out between basic science and clinicals to attend the year long intensive Kaplan programme which costs about $10,000 plus $500 for the home study materials. So just use Spartan for their WHO listing. Pay the fees and study the Kaplan how study programme then take a year away from Spartan and do the Kaplan full time for a year before taking step 1.

You would still qualify in 4 years and in my opinion the Kaplan study year with Kaplan tutors in a hotel setting would mean you have all the knowledge you need.

As far as I can see, even if you slept through the basic sciences at Spartan, the Kaplan year would probably be enough to get a good USMLE pass.

Has anyone else done anything like this? From what I have read, this is what most students do although most don't spend the year full time at Kaplan, they just study the Kaplan materials.

Also, does anyone know what visa I would need to do my rotations in the US being a non US citizen?

[intern_doc]

good ideas

[paramedictoMD]

Has anyone tried this?

Is this how students are currently studying?

I am willing to bet my last £/$ that students who pass USMLE do so because of Kaplan (or similar) and not because of Spartan.

So use Spartan for their IMED/WHO approval and to get the MD but use Kaplan/First Aid for your USMLE scores.

[Genossa maximillian]

Has anyone tried this?

Is this how students are currently studying?

I am willing to bet my last £/$ that students who pass USMLE do so because of Kaplan (or similar) and not because of Spartan.

So use Spartan for their IMED/WHO approval and to get the MD but use Kaplan/First Aid for your USMLE scores.

I am sure the same goes for many Caribbean medical schools not only Spartan.

[wisdom76]

I am sure the same goes for many Caribbean medical schools not only Spartan.

Guys Please don't be fooled. American Medical Schools also use Kaplan. I attented Medical School Base Four years college I see them all the time studing kaplan taPes. I worked at the library while in Udergrad. NO AMERICAN MEDICAL STUDENT TAKE STEPS WITHOUT KAPLAN.....NONE NEVER....

[paramedictoMD]

I thought as much! Medical school prepares you for a general education whereas Kaplan prepares you for a specific exam.

Do Kaplan do video lectures? I thought it might be good to use them to support my studies. I went to the Kaplan site but it isn't very helpful it just lists packages rather than resources.

***EDIT***

I found the video lectures and the home study course. Will these be enough? I understand from searching Google that most people reccomend Goljan for the pathology.

Essentially I will be self teaching so will Kaplan be enough to cover the material? Does it teach the material or is simply a bullet point/notes series?

In a nutshell I am not confident that Spartan (or any other Carribean/Eastern European school) will prepare me for USMLE so I am going to use the school for the MD but teach myself. This is what learning is all about after all! Some people are there to learn and some people are there to be taught! I am there to learn.

Is Kaplan suitable for "stand alone" learning? Or are other books needed?

[AUCMD2006]

i don;t think the video lectures nor the books are enough to take the usmle. people take kaplan, falcon, etc as a review not as primary learning.....beleive me i had the exact same idea back in the day but after going through school and doing kaplan i can tell you the stuff in kaplan alone is not enough.

you can test this out before you try out your experiment. do a kaplan video lecture in your choice if topic then go to usmleworld and sign up for it and take the simulated exam (not in tutor mode) if you get above 70% you have cracked the easy way to pass the usmle.

there is no magic "secret" to these exams, you have to know the material, to know the material you need more than kaplan. you can attend any of these schools, they all follow the us curricula and use the same textbooks so even if the profs are from places you've never heard of and can't understand more than 3 words from them you are still forced to study the same material as every one of us..what they test and how they test is irrelevant because you are still reading the same material and by taking a kaplan, falcon, etc review course you can make up deficiencies in testtaking strategies, fill in material gaps then do sample questions to get used to test style

beleive me its a process that takes time, the material takes time. you have to know the basics before you get to a level of understanding shortened review style books like kaplan and things like first aid. i mean when i first saw first aid and the kaplan and brs books they absolutely looked greek because it just seemed like random facts thrown together but after studying the material i can look at a kaplan page and understand 90+% of it because it links back to a foundation of medical knowledge that is difficult to grasp in a "review course"

good luck

[paramedictoMD]

GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!

I just sold my business for £10,000 ($19,660 at current exchange rate) to pay for medical school. It was only a small home business making me a simple living but I got a good price for it considering it has only been established 6 months.

Now my options are Spartan (qualify in 4 years) or Romania (6 years but possibly automatically recognised in UK)

Arrgggh what should I do? I am very unsure about Spartan and Romanian schools equally. I want to set up my own family practice in the USA when I graduate but also have the option of returning to the UK.

So I now don't have my business (although and a cheque for £10,000 will be with me in approximately 28 days) I just don't know what to do now.

[ASIANDOC]

GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!

I just sold my business for £10,000 ($19,660 at current exchange rate) to pay for medical school. It was only a small home business making me a simple living but I got a good price for it considering it has only been established 6 months.

Now my options are Spartan (qualify in 4 years) or Romania (6 years but possibly automatically recognised in UK)

Arrgggh what should I do? I am very unsure about Spartan and Romanian schools equally. I want to set up my own family practice in the USA when I graduate but also have the option of returning to the UK.

So I now don't have my business (although and a cheque for £10,000 will be with me in approximately 28 days) I just don't know what to do now.

Romania easy admission inexpansive approved in USA widely.
disadvantage: chances of passing US exams remote[all my friends who graduated from there failed[big time] in USMLE due to substandard & crowded education[that was few years back]

Spartan is California disapproved and many states using CA now with very long list [Alaska,VT,TN,CA,TX,ND,NM,IN,OK etc],they have practicing grads in USA in good positions but I think its becoming more difficult,the school and the St Lucian gov have not done much efforts in seeking recognitions and approvals for 25 years.
no one can tell you what to do ,it seems like you worked hard for your money and need a palces that gives you little more security.

good luck

[paramedictoMD]

WOW! That is a massive list of dissaproved states. I am not sure my money would be well spent at Spartan. It might be better for me to spend an extra two years in med school and got to Romania.

Surely my success at USMLE will depend upon my own hard work. I am not sure Spartan will prepare me any better than a Romanian school. At least a Romanian school won't leave me disbarred!

Problem with Romania is the entry exam. It's a long way to travel to sit an exam with the content relatively unknown! Apparently it's two essay style questions and they can ask anything they want.

[ASIANDOC]

WOW! That is a massive list of dissaproved states. I am not sure my money would be well spent at Spartan. It might be better for me to spend an extra two years in med school and got to Romania.

Surely my success at USMLE will depend upon my own hard work. I am not sure Spartan will prepare me any better than a Romanian school. At least a Romanian school won't leave me disbarred!

Problem with Romania is the entry exam. It's a long way to travel to sit an exam with the content relatively unknown! Apparently it's two essay style questions and they can ask anything they want.

I can't imagine they fail anyone in the entrance exam in Romania,you are not spending extra 2 years in Romania because in the carribean you do 4 premed and 4 med education,in Romania you do 6 years premed/med combined program after HS[actually its less time in Romania after high school].Due to opening of large number of new carribean schools and the lack of Island gov's control over such new buisnesses standards[in most Island]the image of what's called "offshore grads" in the USA not as good as it use to be now,I can feel it.
just be careful also in Eastern Europe,I know many grads end up driving taxis and sales rep careers.

[paramedictoMD]

asiandoc that is inaccurate the 6 years is following college (which you leave at age 18).

In most European countries you leave school at 16 then attend college for 2 years. It is only America which awards a "degree" after two years. Europe has a baccularete and the UK has A levels / access course.

In the UK we attend school until 16 then college until 18 then a 5 year medical degree plus 2 year internship BEFORE speciality training even begins.

Compare this to school/college in the US with a completely unrelated degree (how does a degree in law for example prepare someone for medical school?) Then only 4 years of medical school.

[AUCMD2006]

asiandoc that is inaccurate the 6 years is following college (which you leave at age 18).

In most European countries you leave school at 16 then attend college for 2 years. It is only America which awards a "degree" after two years. Europe has a baccularete and the UK has A levels / access course.

In the UK we attend school until 16 then college until 18 then a 5 year medical degree plus 2 year internship BEFORE speciality training even begins.

Compare this to school/college in the US with a completely unrelated degree (how does a degree in law for example prepare someone for medical school?) Then only 4 years of medical school.

the word is pre requisites as in the pre required courses to get into medical school. basically you need 2 years to complete the pre reqs to get into the 4 year med school making it 6 years like our european counterparts....the only issue with this is that it is unheard of for anyone to get into med school in the US with only the pre reqs or a two year degree...you will be competing against people with a 4 year degree so regardless of what your major in college was you still need pre reqs as every other med school appplicant

also to your question on "how does a degree in "law"" prepare someone for medical school? very well actually, being that this is the lawsuit happy country that we are in a law degree would come in very handy actually:D

i know you meant an unrelated degree but as mentioned regardless of what you do as your degree you still need a core set of courses. i know doctors who were music and literature majors as well as economists, comouters, history, etc

[paramedictoMD]

My original point still stands though. You cannot claim that it takes 8 years to become an MD simply because the majority of candidates have a 4 year degree. The actual pre requisite courses can be completed in a year. We don't claim that medical school is 8 years in the UK simply because we have 2 years worth of A levels prior to attending.

If I had a PhD then enrolled in medical school would it be right for me to claim that it takes 16 years to become an MD in xyz country? No!

The actual time spent learning medicine is 4 years in the USA vs 6 years in Europe. Now without comparing each year and module (which would be pointless) we have no way of knowing whether each course is "better" than the other.

I think US style courses are more targetted whereas European courses are more generic. In the UK for example we don't "board". Once qualified we can practice any area of medicine but we do specialise. In the US, once you have "boarded" you are restricted to that area of medicine and must "double board" if you wish to practice another speciality.

Who knows which is "better" but it is more likely that each system has evolved to suit the country.

[AUCMD2006]

My original point still stands though. You cannot claim that it takes 8 years to become an MD simply because the majority of candidates have a 4 year degree. The actual pre requisite courses can be completed in a year. We don't claim that medical school is 8 years in the UK simply because we have 2 years worth of A levels prior to attending.

If I had a PhD then enrolled in medical school would it be right for me to claim that it takes 16 years to become an MD in xyz country? No!

The actual time spent learning medicine is 4 years in the USA vs 6 years in Europe. Now without comparing each year and module (which would be pointless) we have no way of knowing whether each course is "better" than the other.

I think US style courses are more targetted whereas European courses are more generic. In the UK for example we don't "board". Once qualified we can practice any area of medicine but we do specialise. In the US, once you have "boarded" you are restricted to that area of medicine and must "double board" if you wish to practice another speciality.

Who knows which is "better" but it is more likely that each system has evolved to suit the country.


i understand your point, i guess you can say the actual "medical" education in the US is 5-6 years depending on how long it takes for your pre reqs however most paople take 8 years so for 99.9% of us it is 8 years including humanities classes that are required for a 4 year degree to make us competitive with everyone else

US practice is more targeted but you aren't technically required to get "boarded" to practice nor are you "required" to complete a residency to practice any particular specialty. for example in areas where there are no "board certified specialists" internists and family practice docs do many of the things specialitsts do. for instance family practicioners can work as cardiologists, gastroenterologists, dermatologists etc in areas of need. there are actually general practicioners working as general surgeons doing gall bladders, and appendectomies and some that work as obgyns doing deliveries and c sections. also you need between 1-3 years of residency to get an unrestriced license so you techinaclly don;t even need to finish residency to practice..that is rare though since no one will hire you for a long time without being board eligible (meaning you finished residency) and most insurance companies are also moving towards wanting you to be board certified in whatever you do after 5 years or so of prtactice

it is a really convoluted system....for board certification there are your own specialty boards like the board of emerrgency medicine, the college of obstetrcis and gynecologists, etc but there are also other credentialing bodies like the american board of medical specialties that can credential you after some training and "board certify" you in certain areas allowing you to work in areas not related to your residency. this is how emergency rooms can hire family practice docs that are "board certified" in emergency medicine they are not boarded by the emergency medicine board but by the american board of medical specialties. there are limits of course, a fp doc is not going to do transplants and such

i have also read about an internist in florida that does plastic surgery at his own surgery center. i guess what limits you is your ability to bill for the service and wether you will get sued out of practice if you do things out of your "scope of practice" and have adverse outcomes..but getting boarded by a credentialing body gets things in your "scope of practice" that were not there before.

as an example:
QuickLift Mini Facelift Doctor Biographies (http://www.quickliftmd.com/doctorbio.cfm?providerid=41&practiceid=2143&zip=&searchtype=mapwest)

here is an OBgyn trained physician that is doing plastic surgery like lipo abdomiplasty, facelifts, body contours etc. i will not get into how to do this but suffice it to say it takes a fair amount of time but the idea of someone being limited in what you can do after graduation is short sighted..granted most people do what they trained in residency but if there are other areas of medicine that interest you there is a way to get there eventually

[rokshana]

Compare this to school/college in the US with a completely unrelated degree (how does a degree in law for example prepare someone for medical school?) Then only 4 years of medical school.

as litigeous (sp?) a society as we are, a law degree would actually be quite helpful....but that too is a degree that requires a bachelors degreee (ie the JD is same level as an MD)

in the US you are in HS til 18, then 4 years for a bachelors (not 2 -thats an associates degree), then 4 years for med school, then at minimum 3 yrs for specialty training. Not that short a haul as you want to make it sound.

[ASIANDOC]

as litigeous (sp?) a society as we are, a law degree would actually be quite helpful....but that too is a degree that requires a bachelors degreee (ie the JD is same level as an MD)

in the US you are in HS til 18, then 4 years for a bachelors (not 2 -thats an associates degree), then 4 years for med school, then at minimum 3 yrs for specialty training. Not that short a haul as you want to make it sound.

In order to be able to practice independantly in USA you must have 4 years of premedicine courses & degree[can be 3 years or 90 hours],4 years of medicine,and minimum of 3 years residency total of 11 years after age 18 or high school.Most will do 14 years because they subspecialized [additional 3-4 years[.I personally done 14 years to become double borded[specility & subspeciality].

[POPO]

Well, I speak very often with medical students from France. There is no comparison to do with US med students in terms of academic background and intellectual maturity. They go directly from the high school (wich they call "bachelor") to medicine (at the age of 18 (pcem 1)).

So without being pretentious, with my 5 years of university (with a bachelor in arts), when I talk with those guys, I'm often astonished about their lack of intellectual maturity. I can't imagine they will treat patient within a couple of years.

Another bad point for wich I have been astonished too...their cardiologists, neurologists etc.. never did a residency in internal medicine. So it quickly becomes a mess, and specialists there, often don't know how to deal with a pt having multiple pathologies, or with a pathology that is, at the end, not related with their speciality (I saw it many many times).

[wizard17]

as litigeous (sp?) a society as we are, a law degree would actually be quite helpful....but that too is a degree that requires a bachelors degreee (ie the JD is same level as an MD)

in the US you are in HS til 18, then 4 years for a bachelors (not 2 -thats an associates degree), then 4 years for med school, then at minimum 3 yrs for specialty training. Not that short a haul as you want to make it sound.

actually few if any schools - JD or MD - require any bachelors degree. in fact they often say 90credit hours min. ** degree is encouraged but not required.

[Genossa maximillian]

actually few if any schools - JD or MD - require any bachelors degree. in fact they often say 90credit hours min. ** degree is encouraged but not required.

No, in the US all A.B.A. approved JD schools require a bachelors in whatever major, but require a bachelors.

[POPO]

actually few if any schools - JD or MD - require any bachelors degree. in fact they often say 90credit hours min. ** degree is encouraged but not required.

....re: in fact: i'm curious to know how many physicians in the US have passed direclty from high school to med school.

[wizard17]

....re: in fact: i'm curious to know how many physicians in the US have passed direclty from high school to med school.

they would not be able to unless they get 90 hrs while in high school.

[wizard17]

No, in the US all A.B.A. approved JD schools require a bachelors in whatever major, but require a bachelors.

no they dont. ive been accepted to several that do not require... but rather encourage it.