SGU vs SABA

[StriveToBeDr]

Hi, I was accepted by these two schools so far. I wonder if anyone could give an unbiased comparison of them, something that is not stated in their websites.

thanks

[maserati]

Oh my ... here we go again.

[jameslynton]

Oh my ... here we go again.You got that right maserati. To my knowledge, only one poster has been to both schools. I think a PM to islandhopper would/could answer your questions perhaps. Understand this poster would most likely have a biased view having gone to Saba first.

The issues as I see them are like this Big school (SGU) vs smaller School (saba). Best to really visit both islands instead of causing fire works on VMD. A trip and visit will save a ton of posts. Large island vs small island, etc.....

Next issue - clinicals who has more and better? SGU has NY pretty locked up on that account.

The list could go on for every little detail. Best to visit, you would not buy a car without kicking the tires and driving it. Same goes triple for medical schools.

[Phospholipid]

maybe this might help your decision

http://www.valuemd.com/residency-match-forum/13542-info-residency-pds-finally-posted-s-quite-long.html

[BrendaB_MD]

The most obvious difference is cost. According to current figures, the total tuition and fees are:

SGU: $174,611
Saba: $85,990

The obvious question is whether SGU delivers sufficient value to justify the significant difference in price.

Both schools are California approved.

Pre-clinical
Both schools organize their curriculum the same way (by discipline rather than system based) and deliver the curriculum by lecture (vs PBL). Both schools probably have their share of good profs and bad profs. Thus, there is no reason to believe there are significant differences in content or delivery of the curricula.

Some people wring their hands about the large SGU classes. I don't think this is a big issue. Most med schools have large classes and once you get more than 100 people in a room it doesn't matter whether there are 1000. I don't think the small class size is a particular advantage for Saba. Actually, in my opinion, the anonymity offered by the large classes at SGU is an advantage because it means you don't have to attend lectures. Lectures are often a waste of time and it is an advantage to be able to skip the bad ones.

USMLE pass rates are comparable. Saba claims pass rates of 97% and 85% on step I and II, respectively in 2003 (last year reported). SGU reports an average of 90% pass on Step I from 1998 to 2005. There is lots of fine print with respect to the reporting of Step I pass rates. In particular, you need to know what students are included in the calculation (first time pass, overall pass, etc). Also, you need to control for a variety of factors such as student quality. Thus, it is very hard to say that one school has a more effective curriculum than another based on USMLE scores. Overall, the data suggest that both schools have respectable pass rates and that they are roughly comparable. Indeed, I would not choose one school over another based on USMLE performance. In particular, I would not pay an extra 85k to go to SGU in the hopes that I would obtain a higher USMLE score -- the data don't support this.

Clinicals
I have no idea how to compare the quality and quantity of clinical sites. I suspect that SGU has more sites and more green sites; however, they also have a lot more students to service. You don't hear stories of delayed graduation at either school and, for that reason, I suspect students are reasonably satisfied with clinicals at both schools. I doubt that there are systematic differences in quality between SGU sites and Saba sites.

Match rate
Both Saba and SGU have virtually 100% overall match rates. The largest proportion of matches at both schools are to primary care (peds, IM, psych, FM). Thus, if a student is certain that they plan to go into primary care then there is little reason to pay an extra 85k to attend SGU to obtain the same result.

However, the 85k question is whether the extra cost of SGU confers an advantage with respect to matching in competitive specialties. Unfortunately, it is impossible to answer that question. Match data are generally incomplete and you have to make many questionable assumptions to make a meaningful comparison (e.g. that the same proportion of students at each school attempted a competitive match, adjust for USMLE scores, etc).

[summerwind]

Strivetobedr, I did the following comparison for another thread. I also included a link to a thread that might be helpful:

http://www.valuemd.com/st-georges-university-school-medicine/145204-school-choose-2.html (http://www.valuemd.com/st-georges-university-school-medicine/145204-school-choose-2.html)

1. Financing:
SGU- Approved for federal loans
Saba- Not approved for federal loans
- Recently dropped by a loan provider (Health Xpress)

2. Make sure that all your clinical rotations are greenbook:
SGU- All rotations at affiliated hospitals are greenbook
Saba- Not all rotations at affiliated hospitals are greenbook

3. Check where the clinical centers are for each school if you want to do your rotations close to home.

4. Ensure that you can get your clinical rotations completed back to back with electives in your last yr of rotations:
SGU- Lots of clinical spots, no problems with completing rotations on time.
Saba- May have delays if you want all greenbook rotations (according to Valuemd posters)

6. Campus:
SGU- Has the best campus (go to the web sites and see for yourself or make a trip)

7. Attrition Rates:
SGU- Low: 3-5% (Source: SGU web site & valuemd)
Saba- High: 15-30% (Source: Valuemd, Saba does not report attrition rate on their web site)

8. Free Professional Student Help:
SGU - Free student services that offer tutoring, study habit help, etc
Saba - Not offered

9. Licensing:
SGU - All 50 states (GSP (UK program) presently has a problem with Cali)
Saba - Case by case in Texas

[summerwind]

USMLE pass rates are comparable. Saba claims pass rates of 97% and 85% on step I and II, respectively in 2003 (last year reported). SGU reports an average of 90% pass on Step I from 1998 to 2005. There is lots of fine print with respect to the reporting of Step I pass rates. In particular, you need to know what students are included in the calculation (first time pass, overall pass, etc). Also, you need to control for a variety of factors such as student quality. Thus, it is very hard to say that one school has a more effective curriculum than another based on USMLE scores. Overall, the data suggest that both schools have respectable pass rates and that they are roughly comparable. Indeed, I would not choose one school over another based on USMLE performance. In particular, I would not pay an extra 85k to go to SGU in the hopes that I would obtain a higher USMLE score -- the data don't support this.

USMLE first time pass rate for Step I:

Step 1 pass rates for 1998-2005:
First time pass rate for students from US/Can schools is 92%.
First time pass rates for students from Non-US schools is 65%.

You are right in cautioning about USMLE pass rates published by the schools. I would question Saba's claim of a first time pass rate of 97% when the first time pass rate for US students is 92%.

[BrendaB_MD]

You are right in cautioning about USMLE pass rates published by the schools. I would question Saba's first time pass rate of 97% when the pass rate for US students is 92%.


The Saba site is worded as follows, "USMLE pass rate upon graduation" which could be interpreted to mean the percentage of graduates who have passed USMLE I. Aside from those who do their clinicals overseas, it is often a requirement for students to have passed Step I to proceed to clinicals. If so, the Saba statistic simply confirms what you would expect: if everyone is required to pass USMLE Step I to graduate, then the pass rate of graduates would be 100% (minus the percentage of those who are exempted).

In any case, I doubt that there are meaningful differences in USMLE pass rates between the two schools. For example, say the pass rate at at Saba was 85% and SGU 92%. What does this mean? Is the difference due to effectivness of the program or due to the selectivity of the admissions process? The key question is, for a given student (with a particular gpa and MCAT), would they do better on the USMLE if they go to SGU vs if they go to Saba. First of all, I doubt that the pass rates (Saba's shady reporting notwithstanding) are very different. Second, I don't see any differences in the teaching approach that would account for a difference in USMLE score.

[BrendaB_MD]

The question is whether these differences are worth $85,000. In my view, these differences do not justify the extra expense.

SGU might be worth the extra cost if it confers a better chance at getting a competitive residency. What might this be worth?

Here is a scenario:
assume:
average gross salary of primary care = 150k
average gross salary of specialist = 300k
resident salary = 45k
overall tax rate = 36%
interest rate = 6%

then the after tax present value of the expected stream of income for a person starting med school at age 24 would be:

primary care: 1246k
specialist: 2163k

given these estimates, you can compare the expected value of going to either school. Suppose the probability of getting a competitive residency from Saba is p1. Then the expected present value is

p1(present value of specialist) + (1-p1)(present value of primary care) - tuition at Saba
= p1(2163) + (1-p1)(1246) - 85

For SGU it would be:
p2(2163) + (1-p2)(1246) - 175

You can then calculate the breakeven point where:
Expected present value of Saba = Expected present value of SGU

p2 - p1 = 0.096

Thus, with everything else being equal, you would have to believe that your chance of getting a competitive residency is 10% higher at SGU in order to justify the cost. For example, if the chance of getting a competitive residency at Saba is 10%, then the chance of getting a competitive residency at SGU has to be around 20% to justify the cost.

As I have mentioned previously, it is very difficult to compare residency placement rates. USMLE scores are a big factor in residency placment which, in turn, are dependent on USMLE scores which are partically dependent on selectivity. Thus, you need to adjust for these factors to make meaningful comparisons. Are residency placement rates due to the school or are they due to differences in selectivity? More selective schools have higher USMLEs and therefore would be expected to have better placements. The big unanswerable question is whether a given student would do better at one school vs another. That is, for a given student, does the choice of school have a big effect on their USMLE score? And, after adjusting for USMLE score, does the choice of school have an impact on residency placement?

One also needs to adjust for the number of students applying for a residency. For example, it may be that 80 people from Saba applied for anethesiology with 5 placements whereas 8 people from SGU applied for anesthesiology with 3 placements. Thus, one needs to account for application patterns to make meaningful comparisons. Unfortunately, the data are not available.

I don't know the answer but, if I had to guess, I suspect that the differences in residency placment after adjusting for USMLE are pretty small. The data in Charting Outcomes in the Match show the approach that is needed to demonstrate that a factor causes a difference in match rates. Many factors don't matter. Thus, I would be very surprised if one could demonstrate a difference in match outcomes from two decent Carib schools. That is cutting it a bit too fine.


Strivetobedr, I did the following comparison for another thread. I also included a link to a thread that might be helpful:

http://www.valuemd.com/st-georges-university-school-medicine/145204-school-choose-2.html (http://www.valuemd.com/st-georges-university-school-medicine/145204-school-choose-2.html)

1. Financing:
SGU- Approved for federal loans
Saba- Not approved for federal loans
- Recently dropped by a loan provider (Health Xpress)

2. Make sure that all your clinical rotations are greenbook:
SGU- All rotations at affiliated hospitals are greenbook
Saba- Not all rotations at affiliated hospitals are greenbook

3. Check where the clinical centers are for each school if you want to do your rotations close to home.

4. Ensure that you can get your clinical rotations completed back to back with electives in your last yr of rotations:
SGU- Lots of clinical spots, no problems with completing rotations on time.
Saba- May have delays if you want all greenbook rotations (according to Valuemd posters)

6. Campus:
SGU- Has the best campus (go to the web sites and see for yourself or make a trip)

7. Attrition Rates:
SGU- Low: 3-5% (Source: SGU web site & valuemd)
Saba- High: 15-30% (Source: Valuemd, Saba does not report attrition rate on their web site)

8. Free Professional Student Help:
SGU - Free student services that offer tutoring, study habit help, etc
Saba - Not offered

9. Licensing:
SGU - All 50 states (GSP (UK program) presently has a problem with Cali)
Saba - Case by case in Texas

[DiscoDoc]

Thank you, Brenda & summerwind. Excellent posts! The time and thought you put into composing them is very much appreciated! :p

[jameslynton]

The question is whether these differences are worth $85,000. In my view, these differences do not justify the extra expense.

SGU might be worth the extra cost if it confers a better chance at getting a competitive residency. What might this be worth?

....Residency is the most important part of your medical training - It can be three years of the same day repeated over and over with no real learning or it can be three years where you are enriched by learn tons of techniques.

Where you do residency will influence heavily your professional life for the next 35 years of your life. So $85,000 works out to about $2,500 a year spent up front to have a better career choices.

[BrendaB_MD]

duplicate post

[BrendaB_MD]

Your analysis assumes that going to SGU will automatically place you in a better residency. Clearly, if SGU guaranteed you a competitive residency slot then spending 85k would be a no brainer. However, attending SGU does not guarantee you a competitive residency. So the analysis is not so simple.

The correct way to analyze problems of this type is to examine the incremental gain per incremental cost. Assuming that SGU does confer some advantage, the question is whether the gain is worth the cost. If, for example, SGU only increased your odds by 1% then 85k would be a very steep price. On the other hand, if it guarantees you a competitive residency then it is a reasonable deal. But what if it is somewhere in between?

One way to think about it is to estimate the relative risk you would have to have to make SGU worth the cost -- which I have done in the analysis above. In simple terms, it says that SGU is worth it if
1) you want a competitive residency
2) you believe that SGU will increase your odds of getting a competitive residency by roughy 10%. Thus, if you odds of getting a competitive residency at Saba were 10% then SGU would be worth it if attending SGU would increase your odds to 20%.

There is no data available to show that attending SGU would double ones chances; however, I think that a 10% increase is within the realm of possibility. Thus, SGU might be worth the price for some people.

Residency is the most important part of your medical training - It can be three years of the same day repeated over and over with no real learning or it can be three years where you are enriched by learn tons of techniques.

Where you do residency will influence heavily your professional life for the next 35 years of your life. So $85,000 works out to about $2,500 a year spent up front to have a better career choices.

[summerwind]

The question is whether these differences are worth $85,000. In my view, these differences do not justify the extra expense.

You have not taken into consideration hidden costs that may be encountered at Saba versus SGU:

1. SGU students are eligible for Federal loans.
SGU students get lower interest rates with Federal loans. Plus, some Saba students were recently caught up in financing problems when a major loan provider dropped the school.

2. All SGU cores and electives are greenbook.
Saba students are likely to incur additional costs to move around (flights, housing, etc) to ensure they get greenbook rotations. Factor in the time element...time to move and time and money lost if a student has to wait for greenbook rotations.

3. Greenbook cores.
I have read many posts from Saba students who are confused about whether or not some Saba cores are really greenbook. A mistake in attaining all greenbook cores may result in that student being locked out of some markets...financial implications. All SGU cores are greenbook, no mistakes can be made.

4. All (affiliated) electives are set up by the SGU Clinical Department.
Saba students have to organize their own electives. What is your time worth?

5. SGU students do not have to pay extra for electives.
Some schools will only pay a nominal amount/week for electives, the students have to make up the difference. For example, SMU students only get about $135 dollars/week for electives. Electives can cost $400/week. I do not know what Saba's policy is for paying for electives.

6. SGU students do not have to pay to repeat a class that they failed.
I am not sure about Saba's policy.

7. SGU student services are free.
SGU students do not have to pay for professional help such as: tutors, help with study habits, language skills, psychological aid, etc

8. SGU superior facilities:
SGU provides first world facilities. Take the campus tour online or better yet, visit both schools. For some students the teaching environment is very important.

9. SGU's longevity and reputation.
The monetary value assigned to SGU's longevity and favorable reputation is subjective.

Each person has to determine their own criteria and weight that criteria before choosing a medical school.

[jameslynton]

Your analysis assumes ... Thus, SGU might be worth the price for some people.I agree in principle with what you are saying a year or so ago there was an analysis done on comparing Saba vs SGU. I think it was posted on the Saba forum. It appeared they were quite equal in getting decent residencies for island schools. A great deal depends on the person's goals and desire as to where you wind up.

Since that time SGU has executed a contract with major hospitals in the state of New York that secures many top clinical rotation slots for their students. This gives them much more of a chance to pimp themselves than say a clinic/hospital in Homa, La would give a student a chance to do.

Since about 70% or so of the students at both schools wind up in primary care - it then comes down the students who has the desire and goals has a better chance at SGU over Saba. How we define better is it 1%, 10% or 20%? No one can really say or quantify that for a prospective student at any school anywhere.

[Experienced]

7. SGU student services are free.
SGU students do not have to pay for professional help such as: tutors, help with study habits, language skills, psychological aid, etc

8. SGU superior facilities:
SGU provides first world facilities. Take the campus tour online or better yet, visit both schools. For some students the teaching environment is very important.



Having been to both campuses I'll weigh in briefly. Twice now the points above have been made and I think they are misleading. Ask any student at Saba if they have had any difficulty getting "professional help" free of charge. Formal mentoring, informal tutoring, help with study habits, etc are all available at Saba. Both universities have psychologists and of course there is no charge for that service. At both universities the faculty are available for one-on-one time. So I'm not sure where you get the idea that Saba lacks such services for students.

Regarding "superior" facilities, again I'm not sure where you're coming from. SGU has a very large campus (if you include the vet school and undergrad buildings) and it is very nice although mostly treeless. Saba has a very small campus with minimal walking between buildings and lush vegetation. Classrooms and labs at both are virtually identical although SGU has better classroom projection; the new classrooms at Saba will have better AV facilities. I found the huge double screen set up in, say, Bell Lecture Hall, distracting but I could probably get used to it. But other than that, it's very misleading to say that one school has "first world" facilities and the other does not.

Finally, and I really don't care who goes to which university, no one has mentioned the islands on which the schools are located. Grenada and Saba are very different islands and both have their plusses and minusses. But they are not interchangeable and a prospective student ought to spend some time deciding which island they would like to spend two years on.

My two cents,
E.

-

[Experienced]

Thank you, Brenda & summerwind. Excellent posts! The time and thought you put into composing them is very much appreciated! :p

Ditto this. Wouldn't it be great if ValueMD had only this quality of posts? Sigh.

[jameslynton]

Ditto this. Wouldn't it be great if ValueMD had only this quality of posts? Sigh.I agree - It would be very good if more threads were like this one. With spam posters and trolls - threads go downhill very quickly. Also it would help if they at the top of the forum - however that is the forum mods choice.

[ducman]

The presentation of this thread has indeed been excellent. However, every such thread cannot be stickied in order to remain at the top of the forum - there would not be enough real estate remaining to view new threads being created (they would all show on the second page).

The advantage of such forums is that you the user determine which thread should stay on top of the forum - for example, if a thread presents relevant, logical and pertinent info, users shall post on it and it shall remain on the front page.

As for trolls and spam posters - all mods attempt to catch these early and delete as it is a violation of the VMD terms and service.

[ustaad]

great thread.

[TonyND]

no longer posting

[facetguy]

Classrooms and labs at both are virtually identical although SGU has better classroom projection; the new classrooms at Saba will have better AV facilities.
-

When are these new classrooms at Saba expected to be ready to go?

[maritimer]

Good question....Can anyone answer this?

[summerwind]

Ditto this. Wouldn't it be great if ValueMD had only this quality of posts? Sigh.

Thank you Jameslynton, Experienced and DiscoDoc for your kind words. It has been refreshing to have a discussion without being personally attacked (as I have been on some other forums). The purpose of Valuemd is to present information and your experiences as accurately as possible and let the readers decide.

[maserati]

Both schools are for those who didn't get into the North American schools.
Both schools require you to fight 'til the very last breath and a solid determination.


I don't think there's a difference.

[Phospholipid]

exagerating a little aren't we?

[jameslynton]

Thank you Jameslynton, Experienced and DiscoDoc for your kind words. It has been refreshing to have a discussion without being personally attacked (as I have been on some other forums). The purpose of Valuemd is to present information and your experiences as accurately as possible and let the readers decide.Thanks, on these vs threads - There is no reason to attack - those that do generally are insecure or have a bit of anger to deal with.

These are opinions or feels about which school you picked. I have found via PM's and talks with Saba admissions - they generally like under age 30 students, whereas SGU will take you if you if you are older. As maserati stated people choose these schools due to not getting in medical schools in Canada and the US. Both schools have the possibility of getting you were you want to go in the medical field as a MD.

[ustaad]

my undergrad classes were huge, and i didnt like that too much. so, besides the tuition, and time factor (20 months in SABA vs 2 years in SGU - didnt really care for the 2 month long breaks), i really wanted to be in a place where i would have the opportunity to be known to my prof. and i can tell from experience, that it matters a lot, in your studying, your development as a physician, and your overall learning and experience.
profs are saba are the most generous and nicest human beings i have known (true 95% of the time - there are always exceptions). their pirmary concern IS the student. you can walk in anytime you feel like and they will be ready to help you (i am almost done here and i have never needed to book an appointment!). i feel like they are basically on an 'on call' duty. the fact that they know everyone's name in class makes it better. you are not merely a number here.
the profs are very welcoming, often have lunch with students, and socialize outside class. you can only achieve that in a small setting where every one is close, like at SABA.
so for me, the choice was simple. cheaper, quieter, small class size.

SABA would be even perfect if it had its own airport, and people didnt have to deal with winair/dawn/edge everytime they wanted to leave from here, or come back. so getting in and out of SABA is a hassle because it doesnt have an international airport, like the other bigger islands. i dont know anyone who has not had problems with their luggage coming back or going away from/to SABA. so transportation is def. a drawback for saba from NA. for this reason, planning the itinerary is also a headache at times. you have to factor in a lot of variables, and with the increasing number of delays in the airports, it makes it harder.
other than that, its perfect.

[BrendaB_MD]

I can understand that small classes provide motivation for some people. I guess I am different but attending a school where I was required to attend class would drive me crazy. In general, I did not find med school lectures very useful because they simply repeat the material that is covered (very well) by textbooks. Thus, I found I was more productive if I stayed home and studied rather than attend lectures. And I am not alone -- many people find that attending lectures is not a good use of time. However, I understand that many people like lectures, like to be known by their profs and enjoy a small class environment. I guess the key is to know what kind of person you are and go to a school that allows you to thrive. For some people that will be a small school. For others it will be a large school that offers some anonymity.



my undergrad classes were huge, and i didnt like that too much. so, besides the tuition, and time factor (20 months in SABA vs 2 years in SGU - didnt really care for the 2 month long breaks), i really wanted to be in a place where i would have the opportunity to be known to my prof. and i can tell from experience, that it matters a lot, in your studying, your development as a physician, and your overall learning and experience.
profs are saba are the most generous and nicest human beings i have known (true 95% of the time - there are always exceptions). their pirmary concern IS the student. you can walk in anytime you feel like and they will be ready to help you (i am almost done here and i have never needed to book an appointment!). i feel like they are basically on an 'on call' duty. the fact that they know everyone's name in class makes it better. you are not merely a number here.
the profs are very welcoming, often have lunch with students, and socialize outside class. you can only achieve that in a small setting where every one is close, like at SABA.
so for me, the choice was simple. cheaper, quieter, small class size.

SABA would be even perfect if it had its own airport, and people didnt have to deal with winair/dawn/edge everytime they wanted to leave from here, or come back. so getting in and out of SABA is a hassle because it doesnt have an international airport, like the other bigger islands. i dont know anyone who has not had problems with their luggage coming back or going away from/to SABA. so transportation is def. a drawback for saba from NA. for this reason, planning the itinerary is also a headache at times. you have to factor in a lot of variables, and with the increasing number of delays in the airports, it makes it harder.
other than that, its perfect.

[ustaad]

I can understand that small classes provide motivation for some people. I guess I am different but attending a school where I was required to attend class would drive me crazy. In general, I did not find med school lectures very useful because they simply repeat the material that is covered (very well) by textbooks. Thus, I found I was more productive if I stayed home and studied rather than attend lectures. And I am not alone -- many people find that attending lectures is not a good use of time. However, I understand that many people like lectures, like to be known by their profs and enjoy a small class environment. I guess the key is to know what kind of person you are and go to a school that allows you to thrive. For some people that will be a small school. For others it will be a large school that offers some anonymity.
I would disagree that lectures are a waste of time. If they were a complete waste of time, then no school would hire professors and bother spending so much time and money on delivering good lectures.
From personal experience of not attending many lectures in undergrad (hence, not having a high GPA and now being in a Caribbean school :rolleyes:), I have realized that lectures are essential to one's learning. If you attend lectures, you cant help but atleast get something out of it, even if your intention is otherwise. Everyone has to come back home and do self studying, but lectures make that part much easier, because by attending the lecture, you have atleast been exposed to it. Not only that, using the lecture notes and making your own notes on it is like 75% of the studying, because then you have all the info you need and you just need to look at it; instead of starting from scratch by reading huge text books. More importantly, if you dont go to lectures, you would never know whats important material and whats not. Therefore, ACTIVELY attending lectures are infact a more efficient way of getting info your head. Not many people have the time to go through huge text books, extract notes, write them out, understand it, and then study it all by themselves. And another plus about attending lectures is that you can immediately clear up something that you dont understand. It saves tonnes of time because you are not going around and asking others about it - or looking it up in a book. I dont even buy any books for this reason, because I realized that there is so much to know from what the profs give you, that there is no need to expand that info and get confused about whats important. Heck, books are my last resort, after the prof, wikipedia, and concensus from other students.
Now, I understand that there are some lectures which arent worth going to and sometimes get in the way of self-studying for other important courses. But one can always plan ahead, and study their other subjects in that class. Thats what I do when I feel that Im falling behind in one subject. Essentially, everyone has their own studying habits, but from my personal experience, I know that active partcipation in lectures is like 70-75% of the learning - very efficient.

As for the comment that 'I wanted to be known to my profs' - well its nothing special, everyone in our class is known to the prof. As attendance is enforced, most of the profs pick up people's name quickly and refer to us on a first name basis.

[Experienced]

This is regarding previous posts. I am a current MUA student preparing to take Step 1. We had both Dr. F (SABA owner) and Dr. S (former executive dean of MUA) come to the island to talk to us about Step 1. Dr. F told us that SABA's pass rate was 93% I believe. We all could not believe it. Later in the semester (semester from Sept-Dec 2007) Dr. S came down and he was very honest with us. He said the pass rate Dr. F was talking about was the OVERALL pass rate. That takes into consideration both first time pass rate and students that have taken the Step 1 multiple times. He actually said it has ranged in the past from 40 at the lowest to about 82 for first time takers. Now I know Dr. F was talking about Saba's rate, but if I am not mistaken Dr. S told us about MUA's first time pass rate. Anyway, the point of my post is in order to "sell" the school, admin is going to make it seem like over 90% of the students pass Step 1 the first time, which is not true according to the numbers we were given. EVENTUALLY, 90% of students from either SABA or MUA do in fact pass step 1, but not necessarily the first time. Whatever the numbers for either SABA or MUA are, just know that people will manipulate them to make themselves look better. I am sure Dr. F could say that 100 % of MUA grads pass step 1, but this could be 100% of left handed redheads that took the test on a Tuesday. Don't trust the numbers at first glance. Overall the numbers are great, but it may take some people more than one time.

Tony, I don't think it's as nefarious as you suggest. Saba as a med school has made a great leap recently in terms of the quality of its students; the other side of that is that Saba is MUCH more competitive than it was even a year ago. I would absolutely not be surprised if - in the LAST year or two - the first time pass rate has been in the 90s. Recently, the trend has been to write the MLE within weeks or a month or two of leaving Basic Sciences. That's new for Saba and imo it represents a new type of student .

Intellectually bright + good education + excellent self-preparation + self-confidence = 1st time pass

E.

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