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fossildoc
11-23-2007, 05:34 AM
As usual, this post does not target any particular school.

During the period of denouement with the former Soviet Union, someone convinced the politicians that the most sensible route to easing tensions between doctrinally opposed cultures was direct person-to-person contact among average working people, as opposed to legalistic and military posturing. And so, the United States and the Soviet Union began an exchange program in which certain categories of people, including whole families, would visit the other country for a year or so, then return home to tell everyone that the folks over there weren't "so bad" after all.

There were complications, of course. For a while, every time we sent someone to the Soviet Union, they reciprocated with spies. We sent ice skaters, they sent spies. We sent students, they sent spies. We sent ballet dancers, they sent -- that's right -- spies. Have you ever seen a KGB agent in leotards?

The whole thing fell apart when the entire Russian ice skating team -- including spies -- defected. Then the Soviets got real, and the program continued. The end result was the collapse of the Berlin Wall, which was prodromal of the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The lesson to be learned from this is that diversity is a Good Thing. Whether based on religion, race, language, culture, political ideology, or opinion of rap music, the mixing of groups teaches us that previously held notions of irreconcilable differences turn out to be unfounded; in other words, it teaches tolerance for each other's beliefs and practices, and lessens tensions between groups that would otherwise be poised to attack each other based on misconceptions of the other's motives and intentions.

It is also stimulating to mix with folks unlike oneself. Native born Americans tend to think the United States is the only country in the world, and that there are no ways of living other than the American way. Spirited discussion with people of other cultures dispels such notions, and make one a more humanistic person, in my opinion.

There will be fringe tensions that will not be ameliorated by cultural exchange. For example, I hope the American people will never tolerate the flogging of lawbreakers, no matter what the others' beliefs may be. Such extreme examples, thankfully, are rare, and should not stand in the way of implementing cultural exchange between divergent peoples.

In the past half century in the United States, certain well-intentioned efforts to promote easing of racial tensions through person-to-person contact resulted in de facto segregation, which is not a good thing. "De facto" was a favorite term of that period, although you don't hear it used much today. It refers to an unintentional yet real effect of some unrelated activity. For example, the HMO movement created a de facto healthcare crisis for some individuals, a situation which HMOs were purportedly designed to alleviate.

Certain types of segregation are acceptable in most societies, particularly with respect to schools, and other types are not. We would never tolerate a school that shut out members of some race, but we do it all the time based on religion. We have Catholic schools, Lutheran schools, Baptist schools, yeshivas (Jewish schools), and the like.

There is a de facto cultural segregation occurring in some medical schools. De facto implies that it is real, yet unintentional. It is a Bad Thing, in my opinion. I would feel really strange in an all-white school or in a school where there were "tokens" to satisfy some law, and equally misplaced where I was the only white. As I've stated, cultural diversity is highly desirable, and that's how I think med schools should be, but certain marketing or admissions practices have unintentionally produced de facto segregation, not only among the student body, but among the faculty as well.

If owners really want their school to be exclusively for one race, religion, or culture, they should make the announcement and be done with it, but to ignore de facto segregation is not a good idea because it will alienate the minority groups, just as segregationist policies did in the early twentieth century, and bring the school into disrepute.

What should be done? Sorry, I only know the questions, not the answers. I've seen what hasn't worked, however. Various experiments in the United States included "affirmative action", which is still the official policy of government agencies and many colleges. In practice, however, affirmative action became a little too affirmative, to the point of becoming reverse discrimination, a charge leveled by the leadership of the very minorities whom such programs were intended to help. Those leaders wanted equality, not handouts. A short-lived experiment involved racial quotas -- the most extreme form of affirmative action -- which just about everybody decries today.

De facto segregation in the medical schools is a difficult problem whose solution exceeds my limited capacities. I would like to see at least a feeble attempt by school owners to grapple with this problem, and try various remedies. Students are generally better at finding solutions to anything than administrators are, just as ordinary folk were more effective than politicians and generals in bringing down the Soviet Union. Students should be polled for their opinions, and possibly therein lies the solution to segregation in our schools.

jasano
11-23-2007, 09:27 PM
I went to school at a very diverse university set in the downtown core. Luckily, my program of study, nursing, was not a program which engaged in quota bean counting. All minority groups were well represented on campus, much to the benefit of all, and yet there was no need of quotas - only GPAs were considered.

I learned a lot in those years, and like the short stint I spent in the military, my best friends were black despite the fact that I'm white. We all learned a lot from one another and I would agree, that we all developed a greater sense of tolerance as well. I gained a deep respect for those of diverse faiths; One of my close companions turned out to be a muslim girl, and rather than polar opposites, I found her and I agreed on things the vast majority of the time.

The bottom line though is that we each knew that we had earned our wings through hard work and study, along with a strong commitment to the people we chose to look after. None of us were placed there to fill some artificial quota.

My conclusion is that diversity works when it isn't forced upon people, or artificially generated. When everyone feels respected and acknowledged, the real learning can and does begin. Quotas by their very nature are divisive, and work against diversity. As soon as you say that X seats are devoted to group A and X seats are devoted to group B and X seats are reserved for group C what you end up is a room full of people, sepearated by racial and gender boundaries, staring suspiciously around the room, pointing fingers at who it is that doesn't belong.

patelaco
11-29-2007, 02:53 AM
"The lesson to be learned from this is that diversity is a Good Thing. Whether based on religion, race, language, culture, political ideology, or opinion of rap music, the mixing of groups teaches us that previously held notions of irreconcilable differences turn out to be unfounded; in other words, it teaches tolerance for each other's beliefs and practices, and lessens tensions between groups that would otherwise be poised to attack each other based on misconceptions of the other's motives and intentions."


The lesson to be learned is that living in a communist country sucks...I don't believe it has one iota to do with diversity. Do you remember how many Americans defected to Russia? Me either. The major cause of the Soviet collapse was economic.



There will be fringe tensions that will not be ameliorated by cultural exchange. For example, I hope the American people will never tolerate the flogging of lawbreakers, no matter what the others' beliefs may be. Such extreme examples, thankfully, are rare, and should not stand in the way of implementing cultural exchange between divergent peoples.


Why not ?, Don't Americans tolerate death to lawbreakers. In 34 states we have capital punishment. So it's okay to tolerate killing a lawbreaker but not to flog them? God forbid they feel some non - lethal pain?


Certain types of segregation are acceptable in most societies, particularly with respect to schools, and other types are not. We would never tolerate a school that shut out members of some race, but we do it all the time based on religion. We have Catholic schools, Lutheran schools, Baptist schools, yeshivas (Jewish schools), and the like.

Segregation is not evident in all of the religious schools you remarked. Yes it separates most of the students by religion but I am not aware that all the types of schools you mentioned say, "no, you are not allowed to attend her because you are of different faith." I have personally known several different people attend private religious schools that are not of their own faith. Also private institutions are allowed to segregate. Private is not society or public. It is it's own entity. But if a School would like to be taken seriously then it would not exclude other students of different religions. That practice would looked distasteful to majority of the public.



There is a de facto cultural segregation occurring in some medical schools. De facto implies that it is real, yet unintentional. It is a Bad Thing, in my opinion. I would feel really strange in an all-white school or in a school where there were "tokens" to satisfy some law, and equally misplaced where I was the only white. As I've stated, cultural diversity is highly desirable, and that's how I think med schools should be, but certain marketing or admissions practices have unintentionally produced de facto segregation, not only among the student body, but among the faculty as well.



While this may be true, that certain marketing or admissions practices have unintentionally produced de facto segregation amongst the student body and faculty, it does kind of make sense. For instance, the students that are willing to come to another country to study, are more likely ones that have traveled to other countries and seen a different lifestyle and customs before arriving here. You state that, "Native born Americans tend to think the United States is the only country in the world, and that there are no ways of living other than the American way." It is possible that they feel that an offshore medical school is not the American way. Also, you wouldn't market a product to people who are not interested in the product, and I feel that medical schools should focus clearly on attracting the main consumer demographics. As for faculty, Yes it is polarized. But let us put yourself in the school owner's shoes, You have the option to recruit two professors: one from the US and one from another country (lets say India) which one will you select?
Both are equally qualified. What could be the underlining factor on which one to select ? An Indian professor will more likely to be hired because he is willing to work the job for 1/3 the salary of an American professor counterpart.

Various experiments in the United States included "affirmative action", which is still the official policy of government agencies and many colleges. In practice, however, affirmative action became a little too affirmative, to the point of becoming reverse discrimination, a charge leveled by the leadership of the very minorities whom such programs were intended to help. Those leaders wanted equality, not handouts. A short-lived experiment involved racial quotas -- the most extreme form of affirmative action -- which just about everybody decries today.

I fully agree with you there. Affirmative action did have a time and place (US), The main purpose for it was to address US's history of past discrimination. Affirmative action did become a little too affirmative and is slowly being phased out, but I don't believe affirmative action has anything to do with medical school abroad where a student is not black, white, asian, or whatever. He/She is simply seen as a dollar sign.