New Counsel

[Dr.H]

well guys its officail the new counsel have been chosen i have became VP

[Magen-MD]

Well well well! This is to you, VP

Allow me to congratulate you, your excellency, Dr.H, VP

It is with pleasure to learn that Dr.H is the VP of the Student Counsel at the mighty "All Saints University School of Medicine"

We sincerely welcome you, your excellency.

Again, Congratulation!

And let the party begin!
:D:headspin::yeah::D

[lswiltshire]

Am I to understand that this medical school is turning out lawyers----or counsels?

Or are we to understand that this medical school is turning out poor spellers.

I guess the truth is that you have now got a new COUNCIL!


Dont post a flimsy response as a retort now. Work on your spelling.

[Dr.H]

with two infractions that big, i am wondering what type of person your medical school is creating. now i dont say these things to be funny, i say these things cause i am happy.

[lswiltshire]

The medical school I attended celebrates its 60th year next year.It is the best in the region. And the external examiners from the UK & USA and other countries who preside over all exams there have repeatedly said over and over that it is one of the best in the world for teaching undergraduate medical students.

With respect to the type of person my medical school has created, I will cite Sir GAO A formerly head of PAHO, as one of our luminaries.

Quae cum ita sint, a COUNCIL is a group of persons. A COUNSEL is a person who gives advice; e.g , a lawyer.


Why cant you just accept wise counsel, councillor?

[Magen-MD]

If you were an employer, who would you employ: the Logically deficiency guy or the typographically deficiency lady?

If anyone thinks there is an easy answer to this one let him bring it up, and lets debate. Maybe then, we will know the difference of graduating from one of the best schools and being the best graduate. And that 1 or 2 poor spellers would not be representative of the 200 student population.

:shock: Huh?

Surprised eh? This is Logic and Statistics 101

by Magen-MD

[Dr.H]

looking back at some of post lswiltshire wrote i could see she as bad as a speller as i am, so i dont even think statistic really works here rather then understanding Medicine is a Language, English is our tool to use the langauge for the benifit of people in north america, now lets say somone like me also knows Hebrew, and Persian and French, and be a little off some key sounds and figures of speach in english language, woudl that make me a bad medical student, would that even make a good student, it wouldnt, it would make me normal, not caring about what the words said, but what is really ment by it. in the end is all abbrevation and notes only pharmicists could read.

[Magen-MD]

Kharil Gibranne, excuse me for the spelling if I may say, once said:

"Education does not change us but awakens that which is already in us; So either one has it or he does not have it".

Similarly, I may comfortably say, while it is attractive for anyone to appeal to institutional grandeur and achievements or to those that have it in them, this is nothing but a schema intended to establish superiority by associating oneself with those that have performed beyond shadows of doubt. Unfortunately, such logical necessity does not hold when exposed to real intellectual analysis. I am sure people like Sir GAO A formerly head of PAHO, had his real friends and classmates. To these, education had awakened that which was unique to them and was already in them and not in the rest of the other. I have no doubt that an intellectual like Sir GAO would have avoided infractions of basic logic and statistical skill violation by making fallacious claims.

Can I then say, all graduates of 60 year old schools think like Iswildshire? The answer is: NO NO NO! Because I cannot reasonably substantiate my claim and that would be nasty.

On and on and on! blah blah blah!, will it make any difference? Nope! Not when education does not change humans; does this mean even those that we we expose to paideia: (http://www.dbu.edu/naugle/pdf/institute_handouts/paideia/notes.pdf)

I am not sure. I can only say the problem comes in when institutions focus on grades. Because with grades, anything can be raked into a medical profession and the challenge becomes "how to create humane doctors out of the staff the grades-rake has raked into our institutions". That's the challenged! And no institution, old or new, big or small is immune to such inherent errors.

This is getting too convoluted, I will stop here.

Regards,

[lswiltshire]

DR H wrote
looking back at some of post lswiltshire wrote i could see she as bad as a speller as i am, so i dont even think statistic really works here rather then understanding Medicine is a Language, English is our tool to use the langauge for the benifit of people in north america, now lets say somone like me also knows Hebrew, and Persian and French, and be a little off some key sounds and figures of speach in english language, woudl that make me a bad medical student, would that even make a good student, it wouldnt, it would make me normal, not caring about what the words said, but what is really ment by it. in the end is all abbrevation and notes only pharmicists could read.
__________________

DR H in your diatribe with lack of punctuation and your insistence upon poor spelling you show your ignorance. Read what you have written. Does this really make sense to you ……. not caring about what the words said, but what is really ment by it.

Knowest thou not that the ipsima verbae determines the ipsima vox?. Words are used precisely to say what one means.

Medicine is not a language but a discipline, which is universal, and not only for folk in North America. There are times when a typographical error is made, but there are certain English words that when misspelled, mean something different all together. They are a number of word pairs which sound similar but are spelt differently which must be mastered. In Caribbean primary schools, these words are taught for the 11 plus examination which precedes secondary school.

Council and counsel is one such pair. Cosine and cosign etc

Spelling is certainly very important friend. To misspell the names of certain drugs might mean that your patient will get a totally different drug all together. Try misspelling chlorpropamide and write chlorpromazine instead, when, if ever, you become a doctor.

Your post with its poor defense reminds me immediately of the text of Romans 1:22.

[lswiltshire]

MAGEN MD
You might note that my post was a direct response to Dr H’s query with two infractions that big, i am wondering what type of person your medical school is creating.

In the attempt to be modest, I did not, and will not state my achievements. I chose to cite those of one of my countrymen who is now our university’s Chancellor. In so doing, I deftly deflected the daft dart at myself. There is nothing illogical about my posts, nor is there any typographic deficiency in your classmate’s spelling. There is a definite difference between a typographic deficiency and a clear malapropism. His spelling constitutes a definite malapropism. This has nothing to do with either logic or statistics.

May I state that Gibranne’s quote is a matter of opinion. And as cute as it sounds it is not accurate, because education has changed many. Similarly getting infractions on valueMd is also opinion, and has nothing to do with the realities of life. I notice that you also got infractions, but I am not going to judge you, since, like me, you probably did no serious crime to receive it.

You err in your logic as you know neither me or Sir G. You know nothing also about my intellect or achievements. Since you are not omniscient you can not say with any degree of certainty that an intellectual like Sir GAO would have avoided infractions of basic logic and statistical skill violation by makingfallacious claims. I did none of these things

You are, however, correct in saying”Can I then say, all graduates of 60 year old schools think like Iswildshire? The answer is: NO NO NO! Because I cannot reasonably substantiate my claim and that would be nasty.” This is the most logical and accurate statement in your posts.


With respect to grades. At my school the marking system operates so that the majority of the class just passes. Only a small number get honors, and even fewer get distinction. The emphasis is not put on passing exams or the USMLE or grades. The emphasis is put on making good all round doctors. I cannot believe that you guys have created so much ho ha because I pointed out a malapropism in Dr H posts.

Attack me as much as you like. Engage in logic and statistics and semantics as much as you like, but there is a definite difference between COUNCIL, and COUNSEL.

I done wid dat!

[Dr.H]

Spelling is certainly very important friend. To misspell the names of certain drugs might mean that your patient will get a totally different drug all together. Try misspelling chlorpropamide and write chlorpromazine instead, when, if ever, you become a doctor.

.[/quote]

NO is more like
Chlorpropamide and chlurpropamiide

And I know you go to UWI

[Dr.H]

Well see if i become a doctor or not in less then 16 month when i write my USMLE.

Have you wrote your USMLE, i think you said it the best
http://www.valuemd.com/st-matthews-university-school-medicine/26576-ca-whats-going.html
UWI IS NOT SOME OFFSHORE SCHOOL where strange methods od education prevails, and where in some cases stuidents are "curved "through the program, or passed because the schools owner sets that as the policy.

woow look at the spelling there now here you are trying to correct mine, ooh i forgot that was in 2004, so that makes you a 4th year, i wonder why you never wrote the USMLE yet and why you so intrested in our school.
you did the same thing when AUA happened, picking on Sree for spelling mistakes and all, but is OK, my school is evolving faster then AUA did, in less then 12 month we will have NY and already we have the Accrediation from Medical Board of DOminica approved today.

[DOCplucinski]

Well see if i become a doctor or not in less then 16 month when i write my USMLE.

Have you wrote your USMLE, i think you said it the best
http://www.valuemd.com/st-matthews-university-school-medicine/26576-ca-whats-going.html
UWI IS NOT SOME OFFSHORE SCHOOL where strange methods od education prevails, and where in some cases stuidents are "curved "through the program, or passed because the schools owner sets that as the policy.

woow look at the spelling there now here you are trying to correct mine, ooh i forgot that was in 2004, so that makes you a 4th year, i wonder why you never wrote the USMLE yet and why you so intrested in our school.
you did the same thing when AUA happened, picking on Sree for spelling mistakes and all, but is OK, my school is evolving faster then AUA did, in less then 12 month we will have NY and already we have the Accrediation from Medical Board of DOminica approved today.
firstly i'd like to agree with you by saying that spelling on a forum doesn't make a difference. most of the time, i don't have a lot of extra time to sit through and read every single post i make and i tend to type very fast. so my spelling on here isn't the best and sometimes i'll write words like "had" instead of "hate" just from writing too fast - WHO CARES.

i see users bring up the issue all the time, it's old and a weak argument. for all of those, do yuo hvae a porblem reeding tihis?

secondly i'd really hold your breath when you say you are "evolving" faster than AUA did. i don't know much about your school but talking about what you will and will not get in a certain time frame doesn't mean much. that's like me saying, AUA is going to be better than Saba because it's going to get California approval in a shorter time than they do.

AUA may or may not California approval but the time frame in which they did it doesn't really mean much. what does mean a lot is the reputation one school has, including many passing the USMLE, students graduating and then being licensed. stick to that first before talking about what may happen.

[lswiltshire]

Dr H
I am sorry that you don’t understand the difference between a typographical error and a misspelling or malapropism. I maintain that the use of COUNSEL instead of COUNCIL is both a misspelling or and a malapropism but not a typographical error.

I repeat that as a lad we had to learn the differences between words like that which though sounding similarly are spelt differently. eg altar & alter & alto......buoy & boy etc

I repeat also that you must not misspell chlorpropamide when you mean chlorpromazine

FYI I graduated from UWI in 1979. I passed the then ECFMG in January 1979. In those days, UWI students considering going to the USA killed two birds with one stone by taking the exam as a mock final. The exam has since evolved into the stages in which it is now given.

Unlike you I am not hoping to be anything in the future. I have graduated, practiced medicine, and even taught in a few of the bogus offshore schools in the region.

It is written JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT AND NOT BY THE APPEARANCE.

[diogenes]

firstly i'd like to agree with you by saying that spelling on a forum doesn't make a difference.
No difference at all? Don't you ever find it difficult to decipher what someone is trying to say because of persistently bad spelling. Though, admittedly, I'd have to add appalling grammar and punctuation to the list of things which ruin some people's attempts at communication: poor spelling is perhaps the least problem.
WHO CARES.
If, as I suggested above, it gets in the way of understanding then everyone (and most of all the authors) should care. Language does follow (albeit loosely and sometimes inconsistently) certain rules. You will find it difficult to have good discourse with patients if you disregard and show contempt for the rules. Poor linguistic skill and verbal reasoning (they are intimately linked) is a slippery slope. Unfortunately there are quite a few examples here on VMD of people who have tumbled down to the ditch at the bottom of the hill where they seem to have lost their effective voice (and I'm not talking about anyone on this particular thread - just a general observation about the forum).
i see users bring up the issue all the time, it's old and a weak argument. for all of those, do yuo hvae a porblem reeding tihis?
Actually, yes I do!:) And yet the example used isn't so bad because we see it coming and are prepared for the worst. In less artificial cases where the spelling of the entire post is confusing it is a real hindrance to understanding. Wouldn't you rather that your words and meaning were comprehended instantly and without giving the reader a tension headache?
As for "old and weak" arguments, I'm afraid that exactly the same can be said of the 'spelling doesn't matter a jot' assertion. Usually it is just that - an assertion arising more out of vain hope and wishful thinking than anything else.
Please note that I'm not saying that posts which are misspelt (or ungrammatical etc.) are unworthy of attention or should be cruelly mocked.
But to argue that it really doesn't matter at all seems to me to fly in the face of reality.

[diogenes]

Dr H
I am sorry that you don’t understand the difference between a typographical error and a misspelling or malapropism. I maintain that the use of COUNSEL instead of COUNCIL is both a misspelling or and a malapropism but not a typographical error.
I was about to say the same myself. lswiltshire's mistakes were clearly typo's. And yes, they too interfere with smooth exchange of ideas if they are frequent enough.
I repeat that as a lad we had to learn the differences between words like that which though sounding similarly are spelt differently. eg altar & alter & alto......buoy & boy etc
You'll be pleased to hear that my eight-year-old has been learning all about homophones and homonyms at school.

The all-important distinction between what is intended and what is expressed is beautifully stated in this famous reductio ad absurdum from 'Alice in Wonderland' -
you should say what you mean, the March Hare went on.
"I do, " Alice hastily replied; "at least I mean what I say, that's the same thing, you know."
"Not the same thing a bit!" said the Hatter. "Why, you might just as well say that "I see what I eat" is the same thing as "I eat what I see!"

[Magen-MD]

ISWILDSHIRE, You done wid dat? No you are not:

In response to some of your posting, as herein quoted occasionally, I am beginning to wonder if your script is more of a defense or a selective attitude and should equally remind you of your favourite text of Romans 1:22.

Unfortunately your posts exhibit interesting defensiveness and selective attitudes. An issue becomes a matter of opinion if you choose to deem it so, and it becomes a fact of life if you decide to label it so. Any epistemological conundrum becomes a clear cut analytic premise if iswiltshire loosely decideds so. A theoretical expression becomes an absolute fact of life if Iswidshire decides to deem it as such. Not to mention the brutish, excuse me for the spelling, modesty as expressed in these italicized text immediately below:
"Am I to understand that this medical school is turning out lawyers----or counsels? Or are we to understand that this medical school is turning out poor spellers."

REGARDING THE FANCY EPISTEMOLOGICAL CLAIM YOU MAKE:
"Knowest thou not that the ipsima verbae determines the ipsima vox?." Words are used precisely to say what one means. .....

I really do not think you are aware of the epistemological implications of your fancy claim. And the assumptions underlying that claim. I am not even sure whether in clinical psychology your claim would be absolutely justified. If not where does that leave you? While I am not here to provide a crash course in epistemology and philosophy of language, it would be nice for everyone to be sensitive to one's writings and exercise genuine modesty.

You are however, right about the valuemd infractions as a matter of opinion. And that I may not have done anything that serious for the infractions they gave me in fact my first infraction is because called someone cute (and was asked to edit it and I did)...a very innocent error. And my 2nd infraction is because I asked someone if he really meant to address me as Maden-MD or Magen-MD....As you can see, there was nothing serious but opinionated feelings, so to speak.

You also write: His spelling constitutes a definite malapropism. This has nothing to do with either logic or statistics.

It is interesting to see how you intentionally avoid what I was referring to. You then create a straw-man and start beating it up.

You know pretty well that you also responded to me saying:
"MAGEN MD You might note that my post was a direct response to Dr H’s query with two infractions that big, i am wondering what type of person your medical school is creating". In other words, in response to Dr.H you then wrote:

Am I to understand that this medical school is turning out lawyers----or counsels? Or are we to understand that this medical school is turning out poor spellers." It is funny that you do not see any statistical issues of representation, validity, etc etc. How did you move from the specific, Dr.H to ASUSM as a whole? Worst of all you create straw-man argument, like politicians do. Avoiding what really is at issue.

Aspect of selective mind:
You also pointed out that my previous posting which you referred to as: "This is the most logical and accurate statement in your posts".
In this statement, I was actually referring to Sir G and UWI, if you truly believed that I knew neither you nor Sir G, why did you deem such a premise as the most logical and accurate?

Education yes, has changed many but everyone.
====================================
====================================
Magen-MD

Together we can make a difference
As the journey continues!

[Dr.H]

this was a great article MAGEN_MD made my friday night.

[dt]

too funny...


both of you wrote "counsel" instead of "council" (see post 1 and 2)

[Magen-MD]

If it tickles you, you are entitled to laughter :lol:!!!

And we are happy you're having fun.

Magen-MD

[Magen-MD]

this was a great article MAGEN_MD made my friday night.

Hey Dr.H!

I hope you had a great weekend.

My pleasure.

Magen-MD