PI Med school for non-Phil-Am?

[GamaInterferon]

Hi there Ladies/Gents

Thanks to everyone, I have read and obtained many useful information in regards to PI medical school. From all the intel, I am considering the following schools: UERM, FEU, OLFU, and UST. I have been granted admission into the top three caribbean schools; however, I do not want a feather weight wallet upon graduation. In addition, I have always wanted to travel the world and learn a new culture. I am not Phil-Am. Although, here in Southern California, I have been asked many time :D. Very often, I get this reaction (or a variation of), "Are you kidding :shock:". :DAnyways, I still have not yet completed my PI med. school portfolio. Therefore, I am hoping for any additional tid-bits you all might have.

1) Since i am not Phil-Am, will admission to the above school be more difficult?

2) On average (monthly or annual), whats the cost of leasing a good place (apartment, condos, and et al)? How can one search for a roommate? I have tried searching the net, but got the run around :roll:.

3) Are K9 pets allowed?

Thanks again for reading and addressing my questions. Peace be with you all.

[trauma]

If you are not a Fil-Am,your best choice might be OLFU. UST and FEU are very difficult schools (they cater mostly for locals) and are very difficult schools even for Fil-Ams. UERM is in between. OLFU is the most expensive among them so take that into consideration.

[k_tanaka]

UST & FEU might be hard to get into, I'd still try to get into those 2. If u cant get into UST or FEU or UERM, I'd try the Schools South of Luzon such as CIM (Velez) and Davao Medical School Foundation (DMSF). CIM is a very established Med School, at par with UST and UP, if not even better. I just dont trust Fatima due to its history of cheating in the Philippine Medical Boards.

[iguodala_fan]

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[GamaInterferon]

Thanks all for responding. I will just roll the dice and hopefully land a school:D.

[tobymd]

Thanks all for responding. I will just roll the dice and hopefully land a school:D.

IMHO, do not rule out any school in the Philippines. Not sure what you mean by not being Fil-Am. Are you talking about not being Filipino at all? Caucasian? US Citizen? What ever it is - it should have NO bearing to your admittance to schools in the Philippines. I do not buy the responses in this thread nor this forum about difficulty getting in for not being Fil-Am (whatever that means):roll:. Don't look for reasons to not be admitted:confused:. Look for reasons to be admitted:). The Philippines is probably one of if not the most friendly countries to western culture:yeah: - as long as one does not act like a jerk:toiletgr:. But then again, anyone can be anywhere and act like a jerk and am sure will have problems.

I am surrounded with family and friends that attended med school in the Philippines and are doing just fine in the US. Most of them are from UST but many come from UP, UERM, Cebu, and even MCU and DLS-Cavite. Some of them are Fil-Ams and some are not.

[tobymd]

I'd say go Ross University. They will prepare you for the USMLEs. You should be able to repay you student loan anyway after completing your residency, so why bother looking at PI med schools?

..... why have student loan? Takes years to pay....

I would only suggest going to a philippine medical school if you're a fil-am. (PM me if you want to know why)

I am sure the rest of us would like to know why:rolleyes:. Hope its NOT because of Desperate Housewives :rolleyes:.

Moreover, watch out for some medical schools (anywhere outside the US). They might charge you a lot more than the actual cost of education. You don't have to worry about this if you're a student in any of the "big three" in the Caribbean.

Only if you don't do your homework....:)

[iguodala_fan]

Philippine medical schools prepare their students for the local boards, whereas Caribbean medical schools are made for those who want to seek licensure in the U.S. or canada.

Around 90% of medical students in the Caribbean are U.S. or Canadian citizens.

I know that studying in a PI med school is a lot cheaper, but it turns out that foreigners pay a lot more (have you ever heard of "miscellaneous fees" worth 15K?).

For instance, I asked a medical school how much is the cost of attending, and they told me a semester's tuition is about $6500, which doesn't include "other" fees and a "mandatory donation".

Before applying to any medical school in the Philippines, one needs to be aware of the actual cost of education. Tuition per semester costs around $1500. And also you have to pay the $10k foreign fee upon enrollment (a one time payment, applies to Filipino-americans, foreigners, even filipino citizens who graduated outside PI)

IF YOU'RE CLUELESS, PLEASE DON'T EVEN BOTHER APPLYING TO A PHILIPPINE MEDICAL SCHOOL!

<SOME SCHOOLS IN THE PI CHARGE $20K per semester, and THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE FOREIGN FEE, SO BE CAREFUL!>

[Locutusofborg]

I am a non-filipino american currently attending school in the Philippines. Here are some thoughts:

1) Miscellaneous fees apply primarily in Manila schools. Schools in Cebu and Mindanao generally charge very little foreigner fee, if any. Even if you decide to attend school in Manila, the standard foreigner fee is $10K, nothing compared to the tuition bill you'd get at Ross or any other carribean rip off school.

2) Filipino med schools use the same books and follow the same curricula as US med schools. I know this because I keep in close contact with my undergraduate classmates who are now attending med school in the US. The major difference is in methods of testing: Filipino med school is tougher. If there is an example listed on a small caption under a picture in your text, a professor might think it's fair to include on an exam. Also, don't expect your filipino professor to stick to the text. You are expected to look up the chapter in whatever books he lists on the syllabus, and sticking to one book only won't give you the optimal exam score.

3) The biggest drawbacks to being a non filipino in a filipino school:
a) Visa issues can be a pain. Eventually you make it a part of your life to follow up the visa process, but its time consuming and not very streamlined. However, its NOT a huge issue, just a pain in the butt.
b) Philippines is a diverse country that does not embrace its own diversity. Cultural minorities and foreigners face stereotyping and cultural isolation much more so than in the US. If you are a non-catholic like me, you might have a hard time at first.
c) Education here is much tougher, and expectations are much higher than what I've experienced in the US. It really kicks your ***.
d) In the Philippines, NURSING AND MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY ARE UNDERGRADUATE COURSES!!! Meaning, most of your classmates will have had medical coursework far beyond your pathetic US premed requirements. Thats what really kicked my *** here at first. All my classmates have had anatomy, histology and many had bacteriology and pharmacology already. I was the only one sporting just orgo and gen chemistry, general biology, and physics as my background.

4) Whatever you do, don't fall to the myth that carribean schools somehow "prepare you better" for the USMLE. Remember, in most of those schools, Kaplan preparatory is required, while in most US schools its optional. That's the reason their passing rates are so "superior". But in the end, the textbooks and information is all the same. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND LEARNING WHAT YOU MUST LEARN. Now, you can do it for 20000 total, or 200000 total. My school here in Cebu (Southwestern University) costs just 128000 pesos per year inclusive of all foreigner fees. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment and pay about 70 US dollars per month including electricity and water. For 20 dollars a month more a lady does my laundry and helps me clean twice a month. I also have a cat, but i could have easily gotten a dog.

5) Dont forget that medical schools in the Philippines serve a real community. Meaning: their goals are right at home, and the regulatory boards have an added responsibility of ensuring the quality of education at each medical schools. Filipino schools that don't perform to the standard ARE closed, and it has happened before. Carribean schools dont serve a community - they are just money making corporations, aka diploma mills. The dutch dont give a rats *** what kind of doctors AUC will produce, because frankly, the island is far away from Denmark.

6) if you have any more questions PM me. Ill be happy to share personal details via PM. GOOD LUCK AND DONT LET MARKETING GET IN THE WAY OF YOUR JUDGEMENT.

[hunteradam07]

As a graduated from FEU and studying for my step one rite now, my opinion is PI medical schools will not prepare you for USMLE. And it's not their intention to do so. Although, you can say that we use the same books as US med schools, but the main emphasis are on memorizing facts and regurging them up for the exams and boards. Mean while the USMLE are all about intergrate and concepts thinking. By comparing the amount of classes and units require during basic sciences for PI medical schools, which are much more than US or Carribean medical schools (One only has to look at the scheduled classes comparsion btw PI medical shools and US medical schools to see this). To give you guys and idea how much overload information PI system on their medical students; The first Sem of third year at FEU, we have to take 48 units-Yes 48 graduate course units not bachelor units- The end result is memorize memorize and more memorize information without understanding. In my opinion, this is very counter-productive way to learn medicine. Just like there is a saying: "Jack of all traits, and master of none!". That is how i feel at end of my medical school at FEU. I think that is why the AMA shifted to more conceptual and intergrate learning. This is why i thnk lot of PI graduates are struggling with USMLE, because it's a completely different way of interpet and processing information. Most of my friends from FEU, UST, FU, UP, St. Luke are going through the same process right now, they are all agreed with me on this. Also, since the PI medical schools only have 52 weeks of clinicial (not counting internship year), you WILL NOT be able to apply for residency in many states which require 72 weeks. Bottomline is if you want to wait one to 2 years after you graduate to go for your match, then go to PI medical school since you will save money. However, if time and US clerkship rotations are what u want, then Carribean schools are the way to go. In the end, it's only up to you and you alone know what best for you.
In term of money save from PI medical schools, you will lose out on 1-2yrs of earn potential as a resident and post-resident. So it's about the same. ONE THING I WOULD REALLY RECOMMEND IF YOU DECIDE TO GO TO PI MEDICAL SCHOOLS, TAKE A TRIP THERE AND VISIT EACH SCHOOL THAT YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. That is the only way, you will able to know if it's the right school for you. Since there are a lot of recuiters on this forum trying to hype up their school or "bad mouth" the others, you will not get all the facts. So go there, talk to the admin, talk to the students, and find out the real info. Just look at it as a bussiness trip, and at least you get nice vacation out of it. Good luck.

[tobymd]

Excellent last 2 posts!! Although there are some minor misconceptions but overall a good flavor of the degree of education from Philippine Med Schools.

Yes, I have seen a few bad-mouthing in this and other threads and I have wondered what is there to gain by doing so. I have a sneaky suspicion as to why but we can talk about that some other time.

I have heard it said by relatives and friends who went thru Phil med schools and practice here that the Philippine medical education system can be a bit overkill. They tend to study more stuff than what is needed for US.

But - it seems to me that that is better than studying less stuff. And yes, Kaplan USMLE review is a good thing. It helps put things in perspective to help the candidate study for the right stuff.

Again, the proof is in the pudding. We are not talking about anything new here folks. Many universities in the Philippines have been in existence just as long if not longer than some schools elsewhere. They have produced excellent grads in various professional fields. They have been tested, tried and true.

I laugh when folks point out the $10k-$15k "fee" charged to foreign students. This is a ONE TIME fee some schools ask for (which I am guessing can be negotiated). Compare this to $40k-$80k per year somewhere else.

[lrry]

I am a non-filipino american currently attending school in the Philippines. Here are some thoughts:

1) Miscellaneous fees apply primarily in Manila schools. Schools in Cebu and Mindanao generally charge very little foreigner fee, if any. Even if you decide to attend school in Manila, the standard foreigner fee is $10K, nothing compared to the tuition bill you'd get at Ross or any other carribean rip off school.

2) Filipino med schools use the same books and follow the same curricula as US med schools. I know this because I keep in close contact with my undergraduate classmates who are now attending med school in the US. The major difference is in methods of testing: Filipino med school is tougher. If there is an example listed on a small caption under a picture in your text, a professor might think it's fair to include on an exam. Also, don't expect your filipino professor to stick to the text. You are expected to look up the chapter in whatever books he lists on the syllabus, and sticking to one book only won't give you the optimal exam score.

3) The biggest drawbacks to being a non filipino in a filipino school:
a) Visa issues can be a pain. Eventually you make it a part of your life to follow up the visa process, but its time consuming and not very streamlined. However, its NOT a huge issue, just a pain in the butt.
b) Philippines is a diverse country that does not embrace its own diversity. Cultural minorities and foreigners face stereotyping and cultural isolation much more so than in the US. If you are a non-catholic like me, you might have a hard time at first.
c) Education here is much tougher, and expectations are much higher than what I've experienced in the US. It really kicks your ***.
d) In the Philippines, NURSING AND MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY ARE UNDERGRADUATE COURSES!!! Meaning, most of your classmates will have had medical coursework far beyond your pathetic US premed requirements. Thats what really kicked my *** here at first. All my classmates have had anatomy, histology and many had bacteriology and pharmacology already. I was the only one sporting just orgo and gen chemistry, general biology, and physics as my background.

4) Whatever you do, don't fall to the myth that carribean schools somehow "prepare you better" for the USMLE. Remember, in most of those schools, Kaplan preparatory is required, while in most US schools its optional. That's the reason their passing rates are so "superior". But in the end, the textbooks and information is all the same. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND LEARNING WHAT YOU MUST LEARN. Now, you can do it for 20000 total, or 200000 total. My school here in Cebu (Southwestern University) costs just 128000 pesos per year inclusive of all foreigner fees. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment and pay about 70 US dollars per month including electricity and water. For 20 dollars a month more a lady does my laundry and helps me clean twice a month. I also have a cat, but i could have easily gotten a dog.

5) Dont forget that medical schools in the Philippines serve a real community. Meaning: their goals are right at home, and the regulatory boards have an added responsibility of ensuring the quality of education at each medical schools. Filipino schools that don't perform to the standard ARE closed, and it has happened before. Carribean schools dont serve a community - they are just money making corporations, aka diploma mills. The dutch dont give a rats *** what kind of doctors AUC will produce, because frankly, the island is far away from Denmark.

6) if you have any more questions PM me. Ill be happy to share personal details via PM. GOOD LUCK AND DONT LET MARKETING GET IN THE WAY OF YOUR JUDGEMENT.
hi i'm accepted for southwestern do they use the pbl, that's what i'm looking for. what yr are you?

[tobymd]

hi i'm accepted for southwestern do they use the pbl, that's what i'm looking for. what yr are you?

I am in communication with Cebu Institute of Medicine and they are on PBL.

[trauma]

Although CIM is PBL, it's one of those difficult school (ask locutusofborg) where they bombard you with difficult series of exams that you may not have time to learn.
I came from one of the so-called better schools there ( I think they just select well) and I agree that exams there are way different than USMLE. It's not just the amount of information. They need to teach concepts more instead of asking test questions that can be sometimes unfair. It's like the professor is thinking how-can-i-screw-the students-more-by asking-trivial-or-tricky-questions.
In the end, it will all depend on your preference. Going to school there is not bad at all but as I said in a post, almost all the people I know are in primary care and if you are an ambitious American, you have to settle for that.

[tobymd]

Although CIM is PBL, it's one of those difficult school (ask locutusofborg) where they bombard you with difficult series of exams that you may not have time to learn.
I came from one of the so-called better schools there ( I think they just select well) and I agree that exams there are way different than USMLE. It's not just the amount of information. They need to teach concepts more instead of asking test questions that can be sometimes unfair. It's like the professor is thinking how-can-i-screw-the students-more-by asking-trivial-or-tricky-questions.
In the end, it will all depend on your preference. Going to school there is not bad at all but as I said in a post, almost all the people I know are in primary care and if you are an ambitious American, you have to settle for that.

There are ways to get in to specialties besides fam prac. Usually requires addtl studies or fellowships. Pathology, surgery and anesthesiology seem to be some that are not-so-difficult areas to get in to based on friends I see who are practicing them.

Based on the obvious fact that Phil Med schools generally tend to be more difficult (although don't see anything harm in that. seems to prepare you more anyway), I wonder how many grads give feedback to their respective alma matter's after they graduate.

It seems to me that the grads can influence the curricula of the schools as long as they can give them specific examples or cases. It seems that this would be beneficial for the schools and future students. If nothing else, may be the schools should also solicit such feedback. My point is not to make it easy but to make the necessary adjustments to be more up-to-date and applicable to the challenges the graduates will encounter.

To some extent, it should be an obligation the grads should have to their alma matter. Just my 2 cents.

[hunteradam07]

It seems to me that the grads can influence the curricula of the schools as long as they can give them specific examples or cases. It seems that this would be beneficial for the schools and future students. If nothing else, may be the schools should also solicit such feedback. My point is not to make it easy but to make the necessary adjustments to be more up-to-date and applicable to the challenges the graduates will encounter.

The grads can influence the cirriula of the schools? Are you kidding me? Have you ever study in PI school systems? I can tell you from first hand that most the professors and admin in PI system are some most "hardhead" and "narrow minded" i have ever since in all my studies. These people think that feed back from students as a criticism of them-doesnt matter how you approach it-they think that because they got their degree, now they are above anyone else. Please dont delute yourself on this. Have you seen the interaction btw teachers and students in PI system? Most my local classmates would have a heart attack everytime, they want to ask a question or interact with the professors. And i dont blame them, i've seen professors pouring water on someone or ripping paper from students books without any justification. I jz give you one example: During my rotation at a government hospital in QC, the FMCH residency gave 3 days make up duty hours as a punishment to one of my coclerk, because he looks happy. Yes that is exactly what he said during our round! And when my friend was sad after the demerit, the A-hole resident said:"Oh why you sad now, i give you extra 2 days make up!". Trust me that is not an isololate case. Furthermore, most of the so called professors are not really teacher, they are jz simply recent graduated MD or MD that wants to get the right to practice in the hospital which mean part of their contract is to put a certain amount of hours to teach. Basically, their job is not teaching but to build their practice through the hospital. So dont tell me they give you the time and efforts as most full-time faculties professors in US medical schools. The bottomline is PI med school system has many faults, jz make sure you know what u get into before make 4 years committent. Hwever, if i can do it anyone can. Good luck.

[tobymd]

Thanks, Hunter!

I have heard some cases like that, too. That is why I made the suggestion of feedback. To clarify, I was thinking more about giving feedback on a different capacity... such as after you have graduated, passed the USMLE and practicing. In this capacity, it seems that you will be in equal or higher footing and they would be more apt to take your feedback seriously. I am referring to constructive and objective feedback to help them improve. Not a tit-for-tat, negative feedback.

Giving feedback by communicating via email or writing a nice letter to your alma mater and point out areas that they can improve or do different. Thats what I had in mind. I think it would be extremely helpful. There's nothing like getting feedback based real-world situations. Its the key to success of many organizations. If they decide not to listen and blow it off then its their loss. But we won't know unless we try.

[hunteradam07]

Trust me i wont make a different to these people. The whole system is so corrupted and it's very sad. I guess what i m trying to say is PI med school system is a representation of the whole systemic break down of PI system. Just look at how corrupted the government is! During my time there, i experienced several "coup de ta", Junta, bombing, and political assisnations. Anyone who spent a few yrs in PI would tell you the same. It's a very sad situation, because by in large most Filippino are very honest and nice. And they want to be better. However, most of them will tell me that they dont see how the country getting better at all. And that is why the brain drain situation with doctors becoming nursing is a epidemic situtation in PI. This is not a small number of dr, i would say it's a great deal of docs. Just look at the enrollment of nursing over the last 4 yrs and look at the mount of Drs leaving country. In some part of Luzon, there is not enough Dr to do emergency surgery. Very sad sad situation. In the end, Filippino can only blame themselves, because they elected all these corrupted people. Noone else did!

[tobymd]

Ok, here we go again... the situation in the PI is not much different than some other countries. So lets not single them out. In fact there are much worse political environments. I will not name any as I feel this is not what the purpose of this discussion.

I think we are straying from the focus of this discussion. I was talking about feedback. As I was saying, give it a chance. If you are serious about giving feedback now is your chance to make a difference.

Lets help them out. Lets just try. No harm in that.

[hunteradam07]

I want to give truthful informations to those seeking it. And these information are vitals for those who will have to spend 3-4 years there. It's so naive of you to think that going to PI for medical school is all roses! This post is concerning about PI med school for NON-PHIL AM, which mean that whoever it's will have to make major adjustment to the new life and culture that he or she will immerse in. So to understand the political reality and how the PI system work would help them not to be under any illusion and waste their time. For you to say that i m bad mouth the PI System just showing how naive you are in the world, and i dont think you have spent a day in Manila or any part of PI. Here is a news flash it's not bad-mouth something when it's the true. I think it calls: "telling like it is" or honesty. Make be you should look it up. Why dont you to PI and live there for at least a year and then tell me what i say was wrong, then i m more than happy to recant. And yes there are many places that worst like Sudan, Bangladesh, Somolia, Cuba, or Afganishtan, but this is post and those who seeking for information are not looking for information to go their for medical schools, do they? This is NON FILAM looking to go to PI medical schools. U know what i m not really offended, i just hope that you go there for medical school and see for yourself. I would really recommend you to take side trip to Tondo AKA "Smoky Mountain" and see how Filippino really lives. Then private IM me about there are worst places in the world. Good luck.

[tobymd]

i think you have made some good observations. but i feel we should look at the positive part and try to improve on it. i think you can agree that the PI produces good, competent MDs. i have not met one yet who is not and i am sure you are probably one of those.

so all i'm saying is lets help them improve on this. i would say the same thing for any medical program anywhere else in the world. it is a noble, service-oriented, life-saving profession. promote them and help them in areas they can further improve on. use your MD status to make a difference. thanks.

[Locutusofborg]

1) REGARDING USMLEs in PI and the Carribean: Its not an easy test for anyone. Although i have no hard data to back this up, im sure a US school will prepare you better for the USMLE than a foreign one. However, when comparing Philipino and Carribean schools, I fail to see how the Carribean schools prepare you better. At Southwestern U their explicit policy is to mimic test questions to the USMLE, and to use actual USMLE questions in their exams (they have data bank access). This is according to the Dean of Medicine. I am sure other schools take a different view on this matter, thats why its an important issue to bring up during your interviews.
Just remember: Anyone can take a Kaplan review course and do better on the USMLE. Carribean schools require their students to take one, that's why they "prepare you better". They may also block you from taking USMLE until you pass their own "shelf" test, in order to artificially boost their passing scores. Finally, with a draconian control of information (bullying students into shutting down negative blogs) and a huge advertising budget, Carribean schools boost their reputation. All this has been discussed ad nauseam on this very board, in the carribean section. Read old posts.

2) Regarding Filipino education: I for one feel that the extra units of hard science are of enormous benefit. One can train a monkey to hold a scalpel, but being able to scientifically justify your treatment, and knowing the metabolic pathway of the drug that you are prescribing -- that is why you go to med school right? Fact is, memorization CAN NOT BE AVOIDED. Im talking to my friends in US med schools, and they are going through the same thing. As far as making connections, it depends on the professor, and on your desire to read the unabridged texts.

3) Regarding getting residencies: Wasting 2 years after graduation?? THats just not true. Family practice? Only if you choose it. My acquaintance is an FEU alumnus and he is a practicing anesthesiologist in the US (and he is also non filipino american). Im not going to lie, being an IMG is falling out of fashion, and some residency boards won't even consider an IMG. However, if you think for one second that your "Harvard of the Carribean" degree will get you better treatment than a Filipino school degree (by the way 26 filipino schools are recognised by all 50 US states medical boards last time i checked!) you best have some independent data to verify that claim.

4) Regarding clerkships in the US - MANY filipino schools allow their students to complete a significant part of your clerkship in the US. For some, its totally streamlined - they have an agreement with US hospitals. For example, UERM students spend a full year in either chicago or new york. Others, like Southwestern, CDU, or DMSF will allow a student to go abroad for one year provided that the school meets their requirement. Some restrict the time one is allowed to do clerkships abroad - CIM only allows 3.5 months. And some, like the Ateneo schools, completely forbid it. Do your research if doing US clerkships is important to you (its important to me, thats why im in SWU).

5) Regarding CIM - I agree with trauma, the bombardment by exams can be counterproductive to learning IF YOU ARE INSUFFICIENTLY PREPARED FOR IT, AS I WAS! If you have taken Histology, Anatomy, Microbiology, and Biochemistry already as an undergraduate, you might find the PBL way exciting, challenging, and a better learning experience than lecture based learning (traditional). I've seen students fall in two camps: you either love PBL or hate it. No in between. I personally don't recommend PBL format to anyone who didn't attend a filipino school for at least a semester, and hasn't had anatomy and histology in their undergraduate years. However, if PBL is your thing, I'd say CIM is a great school to do it at.

6) Regarding Southwestern University - I like it. I haven't been in it long enough to give my full backing to the school and proudly advertise it to everyone, but so far i like my profs, i like the teaching methods, i feel the test questions are not just based in recall but also reasoning. I like that the school makes USMLE preparation an explicit goal of its education. I like that facilities not only exist, but are READILY ACCESSIBLE to students. For example, after being sick for a week, i had zero hassle in getting histology slides and spending 6 hours looking at them through a microscope on my own time. In CIM, i had to run around, and my time was severely limited because they simply didn't have the staff available to keep the lab open between classes.

7) Regarding VISITATION - I agree 100% with hunteradam - go visit the schools. But don't take any tours, and dont spend too much time talking to administration - talk to students from all year levels. Try to understand what they love or hate about the school. Talk to some foreigners who attend the school. You'll find that filipino schools are challenging and conducive to learning.

8) Regarding QUALITY OF LIFE - SUDAN??? Oh give me a break! I would say that the level of development in the Philippines is somewhere around eastern europe - about a notch higher than Mexico (Im basing my comparison on Guadalajara vs. Cebu, the two cities I lived in). I am not a fan of Manila (they don't treat foreigners very well), but Cebu and Davao are wonderful places to live. For example, in Cebu, for $250/month you can have an air conditioned apartment in a luxury building near your school. or you can rough it without air conditioning, and live in a true filipino neighborhood like I do, and pay 60 dollars per month for an apartment. I have 2 bedrooms, a kitchen, a bathroom, and a kitten, and im not complaining. I walk to school for 25 minutes, or ride a taxi if im late for about a dollar. I pay 20 dollars per month for someone to wash and iron my clothes, and to occasionally clean my apt. I eat fresh food that i buy at the market just 2 blocks from my residence. There are plenty of home cooking open air restaurants that serve a complete meal (meat, rice, vegetables, purified water) for about 60 cents, and in 5 months here, i've never gotten food poisoning. Yes the streets are dirty, and you will see poverty - both real and staged (think beggars on a new york subway). But unless you live a sheltered life in the US, you'll see the same thing in LA, NYC, Chicago, and any other big city. The major difference is crime - its MUCH lower in the Philippines. Although some college frats here have been violent in their rivalries, it can't be compared to the gang situation in the US. Generally speaking - if you don't live in a good neighborhood in the US, you'll find the worst of the Philippines safer than back home.
As far as Tondo goes - I've been there, and I'll tell ya right now that while the poverty CANNOT be compared to ANYTHING in the west, I would rate this neighborhood as much safer than, say, South bronx, or east LA. I hope if the originator of this thread does choose to visit Tondo he'll feel as I do - a hope that in his time as a student here, he'll be able to help improve the health of people who live in Tondo-like areas of the Philippines. However, basing your views of the Philippines on Tondo is like judging New York on the basis of Flatbush Avenue, or judging LA on the basis of Washington Ave, etc etc.
Political climate here is not as unstable as the media would like you to believe. Philipinos are a generally nonviolent people who love to do a lot of posturing. The coups here have all been generally bloodless. In fact, im sure more noses were broken during Clinton's impeachment than during the last "coup" in the philippines. THink of all the political riots that have occurred in major US cities in the last 50 years. How many violent riots have happened in Manila or Cebu?? There is no question, filipino government is hopelessly corrupt. Bribery here is done in a direct fashion, they don't even bother to funnel the money through private interests the way it is done in the US. However, this has NOTHING to do with studying in the Philippines. Unless you intend to study in Basilan, politics will not affect your studies.

Wow I just spent 2 hours NOT studying. See what y'all made me do??

[trauma]

There are lots of nice points made.
1. USMLE- the key is reviewing (parallel review if you have to) USMLE type of questions. I only review 2-3 weeks for each step but that's because I studied hard during med school. There is no substitute to learning the material whether it's a book or review materials.
2. Residencies- The main advantage of Caribbean schools is US clinical rotation but that could be negated by doing rotations of the specialty you like. Getting a good LOR from a US attending is very important for competitive residencies. The difficulty for Filipino grads like in my batch was that none of us did any US rotation.
3. Philippine pre-meds- It's funny that locutusofborg mentioned Med Tech and Nursing or Physical Therapy/OT. Those are VERY popular pre-meds in the Philippines as those can be backup careers in the US just in case they cannot be doctors in the US. Many of their pre-med subjects have the same breadth and scope as Med School basic science subjects. I was a Biology major and I struggled compared to those whose majors are healthcare related.
4. Quality of life - This can vary depending on your location. I lived in several countries and comparing it with the Caribbean countries I visited or lived, it's better than most except for Grand Cayman or St. Maarten. I grew up in a depressed area similar to Tondo and very helpful with my poor neighbors so nobody bothered me even when I was a student there. Familiarity is the key and avoid dangerous situations anywhere you go (like in most countries).
I also emphasize that the southern provinces like Cebu may be more hospitable to expats or Non-Fil-ams compared to Manila or Luzon.

[hunteradam07]

I was making a point to TobyMD. Yea there is plenty of nice play that i used to go like Greenbelts, Timog, greenhills, and Mabini. I had a good time when i went there overall. But i was sad sometimes when i saw the poverty surround me. For example; In Timog, there are lot of good restaurant and spa and we go there to eat often. However right behind the main avenue, there are whole city of swatter. Around midnite, there are so many homeless kids (5-10yrs old) digging through the trash of those fancy restaurant for foods. It was dishearting. Like i said PI people are very nice and honest for most part, and they dont deserve what happend to their country. However, until the PI people take responsiblities for who they put incharge of their own government nothing will change. OH, was u there during the bombing in Makati few months ago? Where 80 people were hurted? OH, man did u hear about another "Coup de ta" shooting at the Pennisula Hotel, Makati a few days ago. What is going on in PI now days? This is crazy even for Philippines standard. BE SAFE EVERYONE, MY PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES. Hopefully, these issues wont effect your studies. Good luck.

[iguodala_fan]

1) Miscellaneous fees apply primarily in Manila schools... the standard foreigner fee is $10K, nothing compared to the tuition bill you'd get at Ross or any other carribean rip off school.
Rip off school? Sure, a lot of the medical schools in the carib. are scams, but I believe that Ross has a good reputation. AUC and St. George's are fine institutions as well. As for the rest, I think those schools just want to take your money.

2) Filipino med schools use the same books and follow the same curricula as US med schools.
I couldn't agree more. Some med schools in other countries also use books published in the U.S.

c) Education here is much tougher, and expectations are much higher
than what I've experienced in the US.
I completely disagree. You haven't attended a U.S. medical school to say that they have higher expectations in the Philippines. I'm sorry but I think that's a lack of judgment on your part.

4) Whatever you do, don't fall to the myth that carribean schools somehow "prepare you better" for the USMLE.
They do prepare you better. After 2 years of basic sciences, you're back to the U.S. for the clinical rotations. But one has to take the NBME shelf exams and score at least 80% in those tests. Med schools in the caribbean weed out students before they even have a chance to take the exam. I guess there are pros and cons to this. they won't let a student take the boards unless he/she is ready.



Otherwise, you have made a great post! I have a few questions so maybe I'll pm you.

[hunteradam07]

Anyone who thinks that Filippine medical education is superior than US medical school only have to look at the passing % of US medical school students on USMLE. If u go by the stat in the first aid, I think it's around 90%. So stop the crazy talk and just worry about your own studies. Good luck.

[iguodala_fan]

Anyone who thinks that Filippine medical education is superior than US medical school only have to look at the passing % of US medical school students on USMLE.

Where did it say that?

[hunteradam07]

I like i said before I m a product of Flip medical education, so i think i have an idea what i m talking about. A lot of time, people think that memorize base medical system is harder than concepts and intergrate base. Doesnt matter what school in PI, they still have the same mentality, and Flippino are very proud! And they dont want to admit the problem instead they hung on these crazy concepts that some how their system is better or tougher than US. Trust me there were plenty of professors at FEU, who told me that how much better and harder FEU med compare to US. I often told them even though we have so much more extra classes or unit per sem compare to US, it doesnt mean that US program are not as tough. At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. Just look at the passing stat.

[Locutusofborg]

1) By calling Caribbean schools a rip off I was referring STRICTLY to the cost. Ross, SGU, AUC, and Saba produce fine doctors, who generally do well in the boards. Some do it by "weeding out" the bottom of their class rather than educating them, but same is true for at least the top filipino schools. The tuition and cost of living differential is staggering.

And the myth they sell you that given the same score on the USMLE you somehow have a better chance of scoring a residency than other IMGs is just that, a myth. A friend of mine didn't score one right away at all in spite of passing the USMLEs (he attended one of the big 4 Carribean schools), and he is now trying to make forbearances on his gigantic loans!!! Its not that the school he chose was bad, and he certainly got what he paid for (a diploma accepted in all 50 states and a passing USMLE score). But times are changing, and its harder for IMGs to get residencies. If you have to postpone your residency admission by 6 months or a year, or if you have to do an unpaid Externship to beef up your resume - would you rather do it with a 50 or a 250 thousand dollar debt on your shoulders?


2) Regarding my statement about education here being tougher than the US, I STAND BY MY CLAIM. For those who have trouble with reading comprehension, let me spell it out for you TOUGHER DOESNT MEAN BETTER. It is beyond argument that the best choice is to a) study in the country where you intend to practice and take your boards, b) study in the country with the greatest resources, and c) study in the country with the better medical care IN GENERAL. For us, Americans, all three points spell out the three letters U-S-A.

The reason Filipino schools are tougher is because you are expected to recall/memorize more. This is not BETTER because most of the information you are expected to recall CAN BE LOOKED UP. However, one thing i can say in favor of memorization is that it does allow you to make connections easier. Knowing every enzyme by name and function in one pathway will help recognize its interaction with another, if it is not stated explicitely. Then again, when you attend school in the US you can pretty much trust that your professors will illustrate all the necessary connections for you, hence no need for such rigorous memorization. Maybe they will do it here also, but this is not the US and im not taking any chances. In the end, in both cases you learn the exact same thing but in the Philippines you do it the harder way.

In addition, for a non-filipino like myself, culture shock definitely doesn't make things easier.

I am NOT a poster boy for Filipino medical schools, and I feel that the Filipinos will continue to benefit by mimicking the US medical educational system. And if you can attend the worst ranked school in the US your career is probably better off than if you attend the best ranked filipino school (if your intention is to practice in the US). HOWEVER, this discussion pertains to studying abroad ONLY. And I feel that the Philippines are a more attractive option than the Carribean or UAG, Mexico. Every point I have made in this threat is to this end, and this end alone.

[Locutusofborg]

At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. Just look at the passing stat.

Would you mind providing us with a link to the pudding??

My guess would be that a filipino USMLE board passing statistic doesn't exist or if it did exist, it would be meaningless. I don't see how one can statistically separate people like myself who study in the Philippines for the one and only purpose of future practice in the US (just like all the carribean and US medical students)), and others (specifically filipinos) who may take USMLE but might also be studying for the Philippine boards, and perhaps have options going for them in other countries. The confounding factor of motivation and reason for taking the exam would make the Carribean medical student group and Filipino medical student group incomparable (Carribean students have only one goal, Filipino students may have several. I will take Kaplan just like the Carribean students do, because for me scoring high is crucial as I intend to specialize, while for a Filipino with the option of practice in his or her home country, the cost of the Kaplan might not be worth it, or might simply not be affordable). Therefore, board passing rate is not an accurate comparative assessment of the quality of education between the carribean and the philippines, even if someone were keeping count.

[lrry]

I want to give truthful informations to those seeking it. And these information are vitals for those who will have to spend 3-4 years there. It's so naive of you to think that going to PI for medical school is all roses! This post is concerning about PI med school for NON-PHIL AM, which mean that whoever it's will have to make major adjustment to the new life and culture that he or she will immerse in. So to understand the political reality and how the PI system work would help them not to be under any illusion and waste their time. For you to say that i m bad mouth the PI System just showing how naive you are in the world, and i dont think you have spent a day in Manila or any part of PI. Here is a news flash it's not bad-mouth something when it's the true. I think it calls: "telling like it is" or honesty. Make be you should look it up. Why dont you to PI and live there for at least a year and then tell me what i say was wrong, then i m more than happy to recant. And yes there are many places that worst like Sudan, Bangladesh, Somolia, Cuba, or Afganishtan, but this is post and those who seeking for information are not looking for information to go their for medical schools, do they? This is NON FILAM looking to go to PI medical schools. U know what i m not really offended, i just hope that you go there for medical school and see for yourself. I would really recommend you to take side trip to Tondo AKA "Smoky Mountain" and see how Filippino really lives. Then private IM me about there are worst places in the world. Good luck.
your info. is very helpful to someone that's looking for truth....i live here and been here for 6yrs. if someone comes here expecting anything less than reality......this is a very very corrupt system, which makes the way of life that way here, along with everyday matters...business etc. if one comes with the warnings taken seriuosly, they will survive, other than that, don't be shocked win you get ripped off with a SMILE..... AND A I'M SORRY......AS A FOREIGNER YOU'RE JUST THAT.....DON'T FORGET, YOU WILL MAKE IT....WE TO THEM ARE LIKE WATER RUNNING DOWN A DUCKS BACK.....OUR DOLLAR 40 TO 1..... DON'T FORGET!!!!! WITH THAT IN MIND, YOU'RE ALWAYS AHEAD OF THE GAME.....

[hunteradam07]

You can look at the first 30 pages in First Aid book to see the stat for all the IMG passing rate compare to US. I thought is original posted for NON-Filams who want to study in PI. This would mean that He or she will have to back to his or her country to practice since u cant practice in PI unless you are a citizen! So i m sure the USMLE is the main goal here. For anyone who thinks memorizing the whole book is an effective way to study for USMLE, then i really wish you luck. I hope you can memorize all the books: Goljan, Robins, Guyton, Netter, just to name a few. Dont worry you wil know what i mean when time for you to study for USMLE. I hope you can memorize all the 8 Kaplan books plus all the ones i mention. Have you been to US medical school for any length of time? How do u know if PI medical schools are tougher? And if it's so easy why didnt you or arent you studying in US medical school or even D.O medical program now instead of flying half way around the world. I hope it's not to save money. OH i really hope your school allows you to do some clerkship in US as core rotation like FEU, or you will have problems when apply for residency. Believe me or not it's up to you. I m just letting you knw. Those things matter. Yes saving money is great, but remember what are u getting with it. Good luck and i hope you stay safe from all the kidnap, coup de ta, and mugging.

[iguodala_fan]

By calling Caribbean schools a rip off I was referring STRICTLY to the cost. Ross, SGU, AUC, and Saba produce fine doctors, who generally do well in the boards.
I cannot add much to what you have said, and I'm convinced that what matters most in international medical education is the cost and quality of education.
would you rather do it with a 50 or a 250 thousand dollar debt on your shoulders?
it might even be a little less than 50K in loans (for studying in a PI med school)

Regarding my statement about education here being tougher than the US, I STAND BY MY CLAIM...TOUGHER DOESNT MEAN BETTER.

The reason Filipino schools are tougher is because you are expected to recall/memorize more. This is not BETTER because most of the information you are expected to recall CAN BE LOOKED UP.

Anyone who thinks that Filippine medical education is superior than US medical school only have to look at the passing % of US medical students on USMLE.

By the way, I wasn't the one who misunderstood your statement (look back at the previous posts).

Hunteradam07, I'm confused! Where did it say that someone thinks a PI med school is better than one in the U.S.? I thought the "crazy talk" you were talkin about refers to the how high expectations for medical students are in the Philippines. it seems ridiculous to even compare schools from the said countries! now that's 'crazy'! ;)

I still think that they have higher expectations here in the U.S. in terms of academics. But I do believe that professors in the Philippines (or other countries) try to do is to make you memorize details that are somewhat unimportant or, as locutusofborg said, info that can easily be looked up. And from your post, the caribbean med schools look more favorable in this matter (well, except for the 200k loan) - they have resources (i.e. NBME shelf exams, Kaplan review, etc.) to make sure that their students will give them good stats (in the passing rate). I've read that some students who are borderline in the shelf exams won't even be allowed to take the USMLE and have to spend more time (and money) preparing for it.

I guess if you're studying medicine in PI, it's acceptable to only have average (or passing) grades, because you don't really care about their boards - all you care about is having the highest score you can get in the USMLEs (I've read this from another forum). I admire those of you who study there in PI, since you have to do a lot of extra work in memorizing what your profs want you to.

[iguodala_fan]

At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. Just look at the passing stat.

Would you mind providing us with a link to the pudding??

LOL :lolup:

[M_Chen]

Hi Locut
Love your candour and your informative posts.

PI looks like a good place to study in terms of costs (as I shall be financed by not too rich parents). I am comparing costs with China and Eastern Europe/Russia and also researching whether all these qualifications are recognised back home in Malaysia or anywhere else in the world. I am not too bothered if not recognised as long as I can qualify and work anywhere in the world.

I am studying for A Levels pure science next June. Am interested in Dentistry. Does Cebu/Mindanao has any dental school?

All info and help is greatly appreciated.

[elbow]

:) ey sup everyone!
lots of informative posts.. hope all is goin well, its been awhile since i've visited this site. just wanna give a shoutout to locutos.. i think we've meet before.. hehe:D, i've been in the phillypines for 8 years now, pre med and proper.. i've taken the less hastle route of finishing my clerkship here in Cebu and graduating with my classmates.. Its been a long ride, and anyone out there who wants to come study in the PI, why the hell not! who gives a $h!t:shock:.. haha, just playin, try to do your best, live life! If you work hard, there are plenty of people out here that will help you achieve your goal.

Please note.. Not only are you a product of a certain school, you're also a share holder, damn 8 years in collage, feels like i own one of those pillars of MHAM building.. anyhoo, good luck to everyone and a very merry new year to all!

oh yeah, cebu has a whole bunch of schools that offer dentistry.. Swu
ain't to shabby.. ;)

And i love pudding! jst came from the duty free and with the exchange ryt now in the PI is jst dandy!:D:D

[Rambo8614]

Hello

does anyone know for sure whether the foreign fee is a one time fee or do foreigners pay every school term?

[hunteradam07]

It should be a ONE TIME FEE as far as i know. One of students from Fatima told me that it's one fee. But i dont know what going on now since Fatima has new tution fees and policy-20,000 US dollars a year for first two years-. As far as FEU, i paid 8G one time fee after long discussion with the Dean :). I heard at Angles University, it's a little cheaper. It's all depend on the school. I think if you really worry about it, then have it in writting and have an attorney to go over it. Good Luck.

[Dark_Stalker]

Just stumbled upon this forum..

hunteradam07 ... when did u start med school at FEU? They raised up the Foreign Fee to $8,000? I only paid $6,000 and I had it split up. I paid $1,000 per semester so as not such a big burden on my parents. UST asks for $10,000 up front. I had a friend who visited UST because he was interested in studying in the Philippines, but when he found out that he had to pay 10K up front, he was discouraged and decided not to do it. Some people really do want to go to med school, but aren't always financially capable.

[hunteradam07]

Just stumbled upon this forum..

hunteradam07 ... when did u start med school at FEU? They raised up the Foreign Fee to $8,000? I only paid $6,000 and I had it split up. I paid $1,000 per semester so as not such a big burden on my parents. UST asks for $10,000 up front. I had a friend who visited UST because he was interested in studying in the Philippines, but when he found out that he had to pay 10K up front, he was discouraged and decided not to do it. Some people really do want to go to med school, but aren't always financially capable.
What u only paid 6G! Damn, i guess they got me for extra 2G. Oh well i m jz glad i got my diploma and transcripts. Now it's all behind me. I m moving forward and doing better thing. Good luck with ur study. Dont forget to read ur kaplan.

[samahantayo]

Anything is negotiable. IMO, students can influence whether schools should charge these misc fees or not. If they must be charged, ideally they should be applied/divided on a yearly basis rather than upfront.

Enrollment to Medical Colleges has dropped. Schools are motivated to negotiate. IMO, they should just remove this requirement. For one thing, there is no explanation or justification for these charges. You can influence this by letting them know when you talk to them.

[trauma]

Although it's possible they will negotiate the amount of 'foreign fee" and installments might be a possibility, I doubt they will remove these fees. There is a shortage of LOCAL applicants but they don't really cater to foreign applicants unlike Caribbean schools.

[iguodala_fan]

Although it's possible they will negotiate the amount of 'foreign fee" and installments might be a possibility, I doubt they will remove these fees. There is a shortage of LOCAL applicants but they don't really cater to foreign applicants unlike Caribbean schools.

Does anyone happen to know how much the misc. fee costs in La Salle Dasma?

[samahantayo]

Does anyone happen to know how much the misc. fee costs in La Salle Dasma?

Everything is negotiable.... from $0 to $10k???

[samahantayo]

Regarding the grading of where the best school is... anyone can say their school is best..... but its the product that ultimately counts or matters.... I have met residents from very obscure schools who are lauded by their hospitals as very skilled and competent....

imho... the name of the school may get you somewhere but its the skill level and ability to relate with people that will ultimately matter....