The truth may hurt, but CMU is FAKE

[Dru]

As of 8/26/07 my observations were:

When I go to the CMU website I see the phone number for contact in Chicago. It is listed as 847-299-5575. When I go to the reverse phone directory I get a lady listed with an apartment address on Milwaukee Avenue in Northbrook, Illinois. The other phone number for CMU is 847-299-5549. When I do a reverse phone search for it, I get a message that it is a cell number in some directories, and it is listed as a land line based in Des Plaines, Illinois in one reverse directory. The CMU website states that the Medical Education Management Group is their U.S. office. When I go to the address of 10275 West Higgins Road I find that it is an office building with 30 business including Proctor and Gamble, but the Medical Education Management Group is not listed. The CMU website has a page regarding the Dean of Students and his responsibilities. It includes a nice picture of a good looking man, but there is no name. When I go to the Caribbean phone directory and look up all the different medical schools, I see addresses and several phone numbers for each one. When I go to the Curacao white and yellow pages and look up CMU I keep getting "not on file" messages. The CMU website lists their Curacao address as WTC Piscadera Bay in Willenstad, which is the capital of Curacao. When I look at the WTC business who occupy office space, I do not find any listing for CMU. The CMU website lists two Curacao phone numbers (5999-463-6453 & 646-401-0636). When I do a reverse search in the Curacao phone directory I get "not on file" messages. When I go to the Curacao Commercial Register I find that CMU is listed as a LLC or Private Limited Liability Company, and it was just incorporated on 8/20/2007. It says it is a "Higher Vocational Education, Scientific & Research Institution, Organization and Coordination of Congresses, and Seminars and Conventions".

AND NOW FOR THE LATEST:

The government of Curacao requires a lump-sum payment of 3.2 million dollars in order to grant a charter. As of last week, CMU has not been granted a charter, nor have they even applied for it. In order for a med school to be legit they MUST be chartered BEFORE they open their doors and start their clases. CMU began classes in May, and to date they still have NO charter. Even if they obtain a charter at this late date, students have wasted their time and their money. None of the "credits" that they earned will be recognized by IMED or any school that students may attempt to transfer into.

To date there are 21 students "enrolled" at CMU. Six students were lured away from other schools and accepted as tansfers into CMU, and as of today, there is only ONE student of the six left. Three of the four students attempted to transfer back into their old schools, and they found that the work they did at CMU was not to be counted.

The CMU website lists a of 21 "faculty" members and "honorary professors".
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Faculty & Staff (http://www.cmumed.org/academics/faculty.htm)
(Actually Dr. D is listed twice, so it would be 20). The students that have transferred out of CMU report that the university is a BIG JOKE. They have had some classes in conference rooms rented at the WTC, but for the most part it is independent study, where materials are taken home, brought back, and they are given an A or a B. The students have NEVER seen more than 2 to 3 faculty members, and "classes" have been poor at best. They have reported that they have occasionally had lectures in "anatomy", and the student mix is premed students along side MD4 students.

In looking at the "faculty" list, I have found the following:

Dr. U D (listed twice on the CMU website) is the Dean. I wrote the exact same email to his private email address to ask if he is a CMU faculty member. I have NOT emailed him at the CMU campus, as I am sure that RL is probably answer for him. Thus far I have received no response from him via his private email, so I no confirmation from him verifying that he is dean or professor.

Dr. J P, per the CMU website, is the Dean of Basic Sciences. He has written several articles which appear on the internet, and the email addresses for them are not valid. My understanding is that he works or worked for St. James School of Medicine as a Pre-Med Science instructor.

Dr. T P is, I assume, is Dr. J P's wife. She is listed as the CMU Assistant Dean of Pre-Med Sciences. When I search the internet for any other accomplishments, I see nothing.

Dr. E E-S is apparently the former St. Martinus's Associate Dean of Basic Sciences. She has also been noted on an old SMU site as their Associate Professor in Physiology, Microbiology, and Clinical Medicine and the Dean of Basic Sciences. Although she is listed as being on the CMU faculty, I see no biography listed for her on the CMU site. She currently holds a Curacao work permit.

Dr. M R H likewise is listed as a CMU faculty member with no CMU biography. When I Google him I see that he did residency at St. John's Mercy Medical Center. He is/was at the University of Missouri School of Medicine as an Adjunjct Assistant Professor for the Dept. of Family and Community Medicine. He wrote a few articles and then seemingly dropped off the face of the earth.

Dr. K A & Dr. N D are listed on the CMU site, but neither have a biography there, and neither have any history of existance on the internet. I am not certain that they even exist.

Dr. S C is presently at the Institue of Post-Graduate Medical Education and Research in Kolkata, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list, but has no CMU bio.

Dr. S N (MS/PhD) is listed as an employee of the Care Hospital as a Biochemist in Hyderabad. He currently serves as the President Elect for the Association of Medical Biochemists of India, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list and has no CMU bio.

Of all the "faculty" members and "honorary professors" that CMU list, Dr. E E-S is the only one who has a Curacao legal work permit, so if there are any other professors actually in existance or working there, they are illegal.

There are currently 21 CMU students enrolled and attending the school, and the highest number reportedly was at 24. Tuition and fees are about $8000 per student, and this does not include living expenses.
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Financial Aid - Tuition and Fees (http://www.cmumed.org/financialaid/tuition.htm)
Considering that CMU is not maintaining classrooms and probably not paying more than 2-3 "faculty" members, their overhead is very low. This means an estimated revenue of $200,000 for CMU (RL) for the first semester and about the same amount for Semester 2, for a total of approximately $400,000. All of the work and grades that students have achieved there are worthless, as no school or agency will consider them valid due to the lack of a charter.

I am deeply disappointed to report my opinion that CMU is a fake school. It is a diploma mill, and they have criminally taken money from students.

[Scott1981]

wow, you really did some heavy duty research into this. however, you reached the same conclusion that i did many months ago.....with much less work :lol:.... just kidding.

strong work.

[stateofequilibrium]

Where did you find out about the student info?

[Scott1981]

Where did you find out about the student info?

dru went undercover to the open house :-miner

[eastern2western]

As of 8/26/07 my observations were:

When I go to the CMU website I see the phone number for contact in Chicago. It is listed as 847-299-5575. When I go to the reverse phone directory I get a lady listed with an apartment address on Milwaukee Avenue in Northbrook, Illinois. The other phone number for CMU is 847-299-5549. When I do a reverse phone search for it, I get a message that it is a cell number in some directories, and it is listed as a land line based in Des Plaines, Illinois in one reverse directory. The CMU website states that the Medical Education Management Group is their U.S. office. When I go to the address of 10275 West Higgins Road I find that it is an office building with 30 business including Proctor and Gamble, but the Medical Education Management Group is not listed. The CMU website has a page regarding the Dean of Students and his responsibilities. It includes a nice picture of a good looking man, but there is no name. When I go to the Caribbean phone directory and look up all the different medical schools, I see addresses and several phone numbers for each one. When I go to the Curacao white and yellow pages and look up CMU I keep getting "not on file" messages. The CMU website lists their Curacao address as WTC Piscadera Bay in Willenstad, which is the capital of Curacao. When I look at the WTC business who occupy office space, I do not find any listing for CMU. The CMU website lists two Curacao phone numbers (5999-463-6453 & 646-401-0636). When I do a reverse search in the Curacao phone directory I get "not on file" messages. When I go to the Curacao Commercial Register I find that CMU is listed as a LLC or Private Limited Liability Company, and it was just incorporated on 8/20/2007. It says it is a "Higher Vocational Education, Scientific & Research Institution, Organization and Coordination of Congresses, and Seminars and Conventions".

AND NOW FOR THE LATEST:

The government of Curacao requires a lump-sum payment of 3.2 million dollars in order to grant a charter. As of last week, CMU has not been granted a charter, nor have they even applied for it. In order for a med school to be legit they MUST be chartered BEFORE they open their doors and start their clases. CMU began classes in May, and to date they still have NO charter. Even if they obtain a charter at this late date, students have wasted their time and their money. None of the "credits" that they earned will be recognized by IMED or any school that students may attempt to transfer into.

To date there are 21 students "enrolled" at CMU. Six students were lured away from other schools and accepted as tansfers into CMU, and as of today, there is only ONE student of the six left. Three of the four students attempted to transfer back into their old schools, and they found that the work they did at CMU was not to be counted.

The CMU website lists a of 21 "faculty" members and "honorary professors".
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Faculty & Staff (http://www.cmumed.org/academics/faculty.htm)
(Actually Dr. D is listed twice, so it would be 20). The students that have transferred out of CMU report that the university is a BIG JOKE. They have had some classes in conference rooms rented at the WTC, but for the most part it is independent study, where materials are taken home, brought back, and they are given an A or a B. The students have NEVER seen more than 2 to 3 faculty members, and "classes" have been poor at best. They have reported that they have occasionally had lectures in "anatomy", and the student mix is premed students along side MD4 students.

In looking at the "faculty" list, I have found the following:

Dr. U D (listed twice on the CMU website) is the Dean. I wrote the exact same email to his private email address to ask if he is a CMU faculty member. I have NOT emailed him at the CMU campus, as I am sure that RL is probably answer for him. Thus far I have received no response from him via his private email, so I no confirmation from him verifying that he is dean or professor.

Dr. J P, per the CMU website, is the Dean of Basic Sciences. He has written several articles which appear on the internet, and the email addresses for them are not valid. My understanding is that he works or worked for St. James School of Medicine as a Pre-Med Science instructor.

Dr. T P is, I assume, is Dr. J P's wife. She is listed as the CMU Assistant Dean of Pre-Med Sciences. When I search the internet for any other accomplishments, I see nothing.

Dr. E E-S is apparently the former St. Martinus's Associate Dean of Basic Sciences. She has also been noted on an old SMU site as their Associate Professor in Physiology, Microbiology, and Clinical Medicine and the Dean of Basic Sciences. Although she is listed as being on the CMU faculty, I see no biography listed for her on the CMU site. She currently holds a Curacao work permit.

Dr. M R H likewise is listed as a CMU faculty member with no CMU biography. When I Google him I see that he did residency at St. John's Mercy Medical Center. He is/was at the University of Missouri School of Medicine as an Adjunjct Assistant Professor for the Dept. of Family and Community Medicine. He wrote a few articles and then seemingly dropped off the face of the earth.

Dr. K A & Dr. N D are listed on the CMU site, but neither have a biography there, and neither have any history of existance on the internet. I am not certain that they even exist.

Dr. S C is presently at the Institue of Post-Graduate Medical Education and Research in Kolkata, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list, but has no CMU bio.

Dr. S N (MS/PhD) is listed as an employee of the Care Hospital as a Biochemist in Hyderabad. He currently serves as the President Elect for the Association of Medical Biochemists of India, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list and has no CMU bio.

Of all the "faculty" members and "honorary professors" that CMU list, Dr. E E-S is the only one who has a Curacao legal work permit, so if there are any other professors actually in existance or working there, they are illegal.

There are currently 21 CMU students enrolled and attending the school, and the highest number reportedly was at 24. Tuition and fees are about $8000 per student, and this does not include living expenses.
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Financial Aid - Tuition and Fees (http://www.cmumed.org/financialaid/tuition.htm)
Considering that CMU is not maintaining classrooms and probably not paying more than 2-3 "faculty" members, their overhead is very low. This means an estimated revenue of $200,000 for CMU (RL) for the first semester and about the same amount for Semester 2, for a total of approximately $400,000. All of the work and grades that students have achieved there are worthless, as no school or agency will consider them valid due to the lack of a charter.

I am deeply disappointed to report my opinion that CMU is a fake school. It is a diploma mill, and they have criminally taken money from students.
Hey, you better have some solid evidence that can backup your words or else this post can open up a pandora's box.

[jaywalk81]

cmu is the pandora's box when they plagiarized off sgu and other school's website

[eastern2western]

The problem is that if Dru makes accusations about CMU without any evidences, then he can open himself up to legal troubles. Where is RL's legal team?

[TonyIvey]

Good work there Dru.I am not suprised one bit about any of this. cmu will continue to be exposed piece by piece until the close down or is taken down for fraud by the authorities.
3.2 million haha, no wonder they are scurring to gather students before getting the charter, how else do they resonably expect to pay that type of money, haha, that explains the desperation they have.
My experience with them was that it was only rl running the show and I maintain that,so it would not suprise me to read that there could be some bogus faculty names to make it appear as if they are more.

[TonyIvey]

The problem is that if Dru makes accusations about CMU without any evidences, then he can open himself up to legal troubles. Where is RL's legal team?
Sometimes you have to check the source of any information before you can question the authenticity of the information.What does Dru have to gain or loose by not stating things as he has seen them.You however have chosen to conclude that he could making accusations and you have to ask yourself why.of all the information on this forum this merely exposses another layer of it, and not to far what everyone already know to be the situation at cmu.

[eastern2western]

Where is rl? I would imagine that he is jumping all over this right now.

[Scott1981]

Where is rl? I would imagine that he is jumping all over this right now.

all he will do is come on the board..... give some response that doesnt even answer the allegation...... then disappear again. it has happened too many times in the past :rolleyes:.

its a feudal cycle.... however, with each cycle..... it digs deeper into the background of this place...... so its definetely worth the ride.

[emt036]

The problem is that if Dru makes accusations about CMU without any evidences, then he can open himself up to legal troubles. Where is RL's legal team?
And CMU doesn't bear any legal responsibility for the blatant "inaccuracies" plastered all over their website and on this forum by their school officials?

[DOCplucinski]

i'm sure Dru has done her hw and can back up everything that she is saying...i have no doubt of that

[emt036]

its a feudal cycle....

Dude, I didn't know we were going medieval... :lol:

[MDXRS22]

Wow! It is really getting better and better.

[Genossa maximillian]

You are right. I consider myself very objective with this and any school, but Dru, you just made some serious allegations and as eastern2western says it may open a Pandora's box for you, VMD and all of us. Diploma mill, fraud, scam, dude, that is serious stuff that you will need hardcore evidence (beyond circumstantial) to prove them, other wise, kaboom! open Pandora. It happened to me dude, so I am talking by my own personal experience ( it took me while to handle it, and I do have legal experience, not to brag about it).

Good luck to all.


Hey, you better have some solid evidence that can backup your words or else this post can open up a pandora's box.

[hirizal]

listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU. AND YES WE HAVE TWO OFFICES IN THE WTC TO BE CORRECT DRU. SECONDLY THERE WERE 12 STUDENTS THAT STARTED AND NOW FOUR OF THEM ARE BACK AT CMU. ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS. SO GET ALL YOUR darn INFO TOGETHER THE CORRECT WAY THEN POST!!! OTHERWISE STOP THE darn HATING AND ************.....OR BETTER COME HERE AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF. AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER. ALSO IT DOES NOT REQUIRE 3.2 MILLION DOLLARS TO GET A CHARTER, AND IF YOU GOT ANY PROFF STATING WHERE IT COST THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY PLZ FOWARD IT MY WAY SO I CAN LET THE ADMINSTRATION AND THE GOV KNOW ABOUT THIS NEW 3.2 MILLION DOLLAR RULE. ANYWAYS GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT THEN YOU CAN POST ANYTHING YOU WANT TO POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: ITS PPL LIKE YOU THAT GIVE VALUE MD A BAD NAME BY PUTTING UP FALSE INFORMATION. BEFORE YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS. OH AND FAR AS LIVING EXPENSES GO, CURACAO IS ONE OF THE CHEAPEST CARIBBEAN ISLANDS MY MAN.OH AND HERE IS THE DIRECT NUMBER TO THE WTC WHERE U CAN CALL AND ASK THEM
World Trade Center Curacao
International
Piscaderabay z/n
Willemstad Curacao
Phone: 5999/463 61 00
Fax: 5999/462 44 08
THE OTHER THING ABOUT RL MAKING 200,000 IS NOT TRU...WHY???BECAUSE PRE-MED STUDENTS DIDNT NOT HAVE TO PAY TUTION LAST SEMESTER ALSO THE REST OF THE STUDENTS ONLY PAID HALF SO IF YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE MAKING MONEY OFF OF US MY FRIEND U ARE VERY WRONG!!!!

[TonyIvey]

Apologies.did not mean to say he, where it was supposed to be she. Anyone reading the information,the source should be the last concern.really it should be common knowledge that cmu is fake.it helps to be reconfirmed over and over agian.

[hirizal]

As For You Tony....if I Wasnt Sga-vice Prez I Would spend more time reading ValueMD's Terms of Service (http://www.valuemd.com/disclaimer.php).

[TonyIvey]

listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU. AND YES WE HAVE TWO OFFICES IN THE WTC TO BE CORRECT DRU. SECONDLY THERE WERE 12 STUDENTS THAT STARTED AND NOW FOUR OF THEM ARE BACK AT CMU. ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS. SO GET ALL YOUR darn INFO TOGETHER THE CORRECT WAY THEN POST!!! OTHERWISE STOP THE Fing HATING AND GET A LIFE.....OR BETTER COME HERE AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF. AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER. ANYWAYS GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT THEN YOU CAN POST ANYTHING YOU WANT TO POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: ITS PPL LIKE YOU THAT GIVE VALUE MD A BAD NAME BY PUTTING UP FALSE INFORMATION. BEFORE YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS.
Haha when did cmu admit to not teling the correct facts.let's start with that.point us to the specific place.if not then you need to take your own advice.and since you are here,you can tell everyone the effect you think not having a charter will have on your current classes and how it would have been wasted time and money.and if you do not get the charter by the end of september what happens.was this the first and only date you were given on when the charter will be ready haha. dude as rl implied we thought you had better things to do than come here.

[Scott1981]

listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU. AND YES WE HAVE TWO OFFICES IN THE WTC TO BE CORRECT DRU. SECONDLY THERE WERE 12 STUDENTS THAT STARTED AND NOW FOUR OF THEM ARE BACK AT CMU. ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS. SO GET ALL YOUR darn INFO TOGETHER THE CORRECT WAY THEN POST!!! OTHERWISE STOP THE Fing HATING AND GET A LIFE.....OR BETTER COME HERE AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF. AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER. ANYWAYS GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT THEN YOU CAN POST ANYTHING YOU WANT TO POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: ITS PPL LIKE YOU THAT GIVE VALUE MD A BAD NAME BY PUTTING UP FALSE INFORMATION. BEFORE YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS. OH AND FAR AS LIVING EXPENSES GO, CURACAO IS ONE OF THE CHEAPEST CARIBBEAN ISLANDS MY MAN.

are you going to show up on VMD after in october and be objective if there is still no charter? yes or no.

ps- they have promised that the charter would be "taken care of" by sept 10th through the cmumed.org online representative.

anyway, i look forward to your yes or no response.

[Scott1981]

As For You Tony....if I Wasnt Sga-vice Prez I Would Let You Know Whats On My Mind About You Right Now!!!! I Wouldnt Want To Put My Sga Postion On The Line For A Low Life Like You.

come on, keep it clean and stay within TOS.

[TonyIvey]

As For You Tony....if I Wasnt Sga-vice Prez I Would Let You Know Whats On My Mind About You Right Now!!!! I Wouldnt Want To Put My Sga Postion On The Line For A Low Life Like You.
don't flatter yourself afterall you are the one stuck on cmu a school with no charter throwing your money away pretending you have anyting to show for it, how smart do you think that makes you haha. dude you have nothing to say to anyone here and believe me your sga preg or whatever is all in your mind.take that to the back and show me the money you got for it.tell me can you be a doctor a real doctor without cmu and not even with that. take a long hard look in the mirror dude.you realy need to stick to lurking.on second thoughts do us a favor and let us all see your real colors. keep posting hahaha

[DOCplucinski]

yes, as Scott said, please edit your posts. PMs we already sent, anything further will result in a TOS violation. thanks

[TonyIvey]

come on, keep it clean and stay within TOS.
He is itching to show everyone how low he really is, just itching.
but if not for the title given by a school that is barely struggling to stay open and out of multiple allegations of fraud with no charter no imed listing.pffttt if i were him i'd be very upset too haha

[hirizal]

actually they have admitted it the students who are here and students who have applied. i personally dont care if u guys got the truth or not cuz i mean even with the truth haters are gonna hate.

[Scott1981]

actually they have atmitted it the students who are here and students who have applied. i personally dont care if u guys got the truth or not cuz i mean even with the truth haters are gonna hate.

so will you come here on oct 1st and state that they have been "less than forthcoming" with you if they still dont have a charter? yes or no.

still waiting for a response.

[TonyIvey]

Please moderators is there any way to make sure the real owner of the id was the one behind the coments because for someone who is barely here and from someone else who cannot afford anymore infractions,it seems very questionable tht such unprovoked attacks can be launched about certain things.

[hirizal]

yes i will be back on oct 1st and will be lose all trust in CMU if there is no charter by Oct 1st.

[TonyIvey]

yes i will be back on oct 1st and will be lose all trust in CMU if there is no charter by Oct 1st.
Quoting for future refenrece

[hirizal]

I am not RL and i have no connection with RL i am just a student at CMU since last semster and you can check my other post if you dont believe me.

[Scott1981]

yes i will be back on oct 1st and will be lose all trust in CMU if there is no charter by Oct 1st.

ok, i respect your decision.

[Scott1981]

I LOVE CMU!!!

quoting on VMD really doesnt hold any water because anything can be edited. case in point above. :lol:

[Genossa maximillian]

Definitely getting better. Now, I really don't believe the 3.5 million dollar charter thing ( come on Dru, you can do better than that) that was exaggerated. As a matter of fact, I also know a Caribbean Island that charges $25,000 USD. I also know a group of consultants in the UK (one of their lawyers is a former schoolmate of mine) that charge some 17,000 euros, all paperwork done, charter included. Maybe RL might be interested in their services.

[Genossa maximillian]

October 1st. Don't you think you are pushing your luck a little bit?

yes i will be back on oct 1st and will be lose all trust in CMU if there is no charter by Oct 1st.

[stateofequilibrium]

I am not RL and i have no connection with RL i am just a student at CMU since last semster and you can check my other post if you dont believe me.

I'm just wondering if you were at any time really worried between RL's statements and CMU's advertising regarding the charter and IMED listing (and then having the guts to call us liars for saying he even said such things) and the actuality of their status?

Such as claiming to have submitted paper work and was waiting for "merging" of their databases when FAIMER said they were still waiting for ANY paperwork from them months later.

[TonyIvey]

listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU. AND YES WE HAVE TWO OFFICES IN THE WTC TO BE CORRECT DRU. SECONDLY THERE WERE 12 STUDENTS THAT STARTED AND NOW FOUR OF THEM ARE BACK AT CMU. ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS. SO GET ALL YOUR darn INFO TOGETHER THE CORRECT WAY THEN POST!!! OTHERWISE STOP THE darn HATING AND ************.....OR BETTER COME HERE AND SEE FOR YOUR SELF. AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER. ALSO IT DOES NOT REQUIRE 3.2 MILLION DOLLARS TO GET A CHARTER, AND IF YOU GOT ANY PROFF STATING WHERE IT COST THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY PLZ FOWARD IT MY WAY SO I CAN LET THE ADMINSTRATION AND THE GOV KNOW ABOUT THIS NEW 3.2 MILLION DOLLAR RULE. ANYWAYS GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT THEN YOU CAN POST ANYTHING YOU WANT TO POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: ITS PPL LIKE YOU THAT GIVE VALUE MD A BAD NAME BY PUTTING UP FALSE INFORMATION. BEFORE YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS. OH AND FAR AS LIVING EXPENSES GO, CURACAO IS ONE OF THE CHEAPEST CARIBBEAN ISLANDS MY MAN.OH AND HERE IS THE DIRECT NUMBER TO THE WTC WHERE U CAN CALL AND ASK THEM
World Trade Center Curacao
International
Piscaderabay z/n
Willemstad Curacao
Phone: 5999/463 61 00
Fax: 5999/462 44 08
THE OTHER THING ABOUT RL MAKING 200,000 IS NOT TRU...WHY???BECAUSE PRE-MED STUDENTS DIDNT NOT HAVE TO PAY TUTION LAST SEMESTER ALSO THE REST OF THE STUDENTS ONLY PAID HALF SO IF YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE MAKING MONEY OFF OF US MY FRIEND U ARE VERY WRONG!!!!

I am not RL and i have no connection with RL i am just a student at CMU since last semster and you can check my other post if you dont believe me.


========================================


http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/141916-place-more-interesting-than-any-mexican-telenovellas.html


http://www.valuemd.com/search.php?searchid=958736


Hi ALL,

Try to stop doubting everything. I am no way connected to the school. I am a parent of a student and did some investigation after seeing all your posts with my own interest and I thought its better to post it here so that people like you will stop doubting each and everything.

Try to be realistic and come to your senses. the post will look similar in different threads bc its the same person posting with the same subject in it.

Hey

I got admission in four MED schools from carribean. Out of that two are ur so called SGU and ROSS. I preferred CMU bc they are confident to make the SCHOOL No: 1 in Carribean and I believe them. They do have more clinical/rotations than any other NEW MED school had before.

You all will realize that within few years. May be you will vote for CMU at that time. Have faith.

[stateofequilibrium]

Please stop suspecting and calling everyone staff members of CMU repeatedly. If you suspect they are, please report the post and your reasons and they will be looked into.

[Genossa maximillian]

One of the quotes tony posted by anson said..." I got admission in four MED schools from carribean. Out of that two are ur so called SGU and ROSS. I preferred CMU".

He preferred the one lacking what the other 4 had: A CHARTER.

I hit 1260. Nice.

[rlewkowski]

Mr Dru
"... they have criminally taken money from students."

Please reveal your identity, even through PM and for those serious accusations we would have to clarify it in a court. You went too far.

[Dru]

If you refer to RL's letter that he received from the Curacao government at:
CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Accreditations - School Charter (http://www.cmumed.org/about/charter.htm) (page down to the second letter, unless RL has removed it from the website)

This letter not only informs RL that he will require $3 million USD, it also informs him that he has not even begun the "proper procedure" for approaching the government for a charter application.

To date, the required amount reportedly is $3.2 million USD, and CMU has made no further effort to apply for a charter, according to the Curacao government.

[emt036]

Mr Dru
"... they have criminally taken money from students."

Please reveal your identity, even through PM and for those serious accusations we would have to clarify it in a court. You went too far.

Umm, what would you call:
1) Collecting money from students
2) Promising an MD degree
3) Promising that you had a charter and IMED/WHO listing
4) Promising the ability to take USMLE and get licensed in the US and Canada on your plagarized website

when none of this was/is true? I don't see how that doesn't constitute fraud.

[rokshana]

1st you need to stop YELLING- calm down

listen up pplz!!!!!!!! I am the SGA Vice-President at CMU.
hear me roar!!

ALSO TUTION IS ONLY 4900 FOR PRE-MED AND 5900 FOR MD AND 7900 FOR CLINICALS.

so how appropriate is it to have them all in the same class and paying different tuition. And exactly WHERE are your clinical students doing rotations

AND IM NOT GONNA LIE ABOUT THE CHARTER WE WERE TOLD WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT BEFORE THE END OF SEPTEMBER.
So the END of september is it?? so we have a new countdown?

ALSO IT DOES NOT REQUIRE 3.2 MILLION DOLLARS TO GET A CHARTER, AND IF YOU GOT ANY PROFF STATING WHERE IT COST THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY PLZ FOWARD IT MY WAY SO I CAN LET THE ADMINSTRATION AND THE GOV KNOW ABOUT THIS NEW 3.2 MILLION DOLLAR RULE.
So... do you think charters are free? Countries just hand them out willy nilly to any one that asks for one? ( and jez, per the inspector general of curacao, cmu hasn't even actually asked for one)
YOU EVEN START ABOUT CMU NOT PUTTING UP THE CORRECT FACTS...ATLEAST THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING THE CORRECT FACTS.

please, PLEASE< show me where CMU has ever, EVER had the dignity to actually state that they have posted false and /or incorrect info? RL has always made some sort of EXCUSE about the info and has never aplogized for the BLATANT THEFT of the intellectual property of sgu and univ of utah's websites


THE OTHER THING ABOUT RL MAKING 200,000 IS NOT TRU...WHY???
i believer the calculattion was more how much CMU is raking in on the backs of you poor deluded students per semester. PER SEMESTER- not that he personally was making that money*coug*


hun- you need to take the rose colored glasses off- as it stands now you are enrolled in a school recognized by no one- not IMED, not FAIMER, not WHO, not ECFMG, not the netherland Antilles, not even Curacao. THe classes you are taking will not count- I repeat - WILL NOT COUNT toward a legitamate MD degree.

and please- you are in "medical school"- can we stop with the wanna be gangsta writing - its people, and true...

[rlewkowski]

"THe classes you are taking will not count- I repeat - WILL NOT COUNT toward a legitamate MD degree."

Stop telling blatant lies, prove it as I asked you before. Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree.

[rokshana]

"THe classes you are taking will not count- I repeat - WILL NOT COUNT toward a legitamate MD degree."

Stop telling blatant lies, prove it as I asked you before. Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree.


i think you are mistaken - i believe YOU need to prove how an unchartered, unaccredited, unrecognized school can deliver on a legitimate degree...

you're right, i don't and neither does all your wishfull thinking make it so....

someone called CMU a diploma mill and that is incorrect- CMU can't deliver a diploma...

[rlewkowski]

i think you are mistaken - i believe YOU need to prove how an unchartered, unaccredited, unrecognized school can deliver on a legitamate degree...

Dont avoid the answer, I was talking about the classes. Xavier didnt have a charter for 2 years, yet student are doing rotations and some have already graduated.

[Scott1981]

Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree.

so who is it? you? :roll:

[Scott1981]

Dont avoid the answer

WOW....... the irony here. :lol:

[rlewkowski]

"Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree."

Really? I tought she was a chief of medical licensing board.

[stateofequilibrium]

WOW....... the irony here. :lol:

I was JUST about to say that.

[Dru]

Per IMED/Faimer, if you are an FMG:

"A medical school is listed in IMED after FAIMER receives confirmation from the Ministry of Health or other appropriate agency that the medical school is recognized by the Ministry or other agency. FAIMER also updates the International Medical Education Directory as information about medical schools is received from Ministries of Health or other appropriate agencies."

IMED - FAIMER International Medical Education Directory (http://imed.ecfmg.org/)

Students who have transferred out of CMU and have applied to other medical students have all been told that the classes and "credits" awarded by CMU do not count and are NOT accepted.

[Scott1981]

"Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree."

Really? I tought she was a chief of medical licensing board.

did you just reply to yourself? :confused:

[emt036]

Dont avoid the answer, I was talking about the classes. Xavier didnt have a charter for 2 years, yet student are doing rotations and some have already graduated.

did you just reply to yourself? :confused:

He'll get his crack legal team to look into that, right after they get done handing out (not-so) veiled legal threats. But they might have some free time shortly, as soon as they realize it probably would not be a good idea to have CMU's business practices examined in court...

[rlewkowski]

Per IMED/Faimer, if you are an FMG:

"A medical school is listed in IMED after FAIMER receives confirmation from the Ministry of Health or other appropriate agency that the medical school is recognized by the Ministry or other agency. FAIMER also updates the International Medical Education Directory as information about medical schools is received from Ministries of Health or other appropriate agencies."

IMED - FAIMER International Medical Education Directory (http://imed.ecfmg.org/)

Students who have transferred out of CMU and have applied to other medical students have all been told that the classes and "credits" awarded by CMU do not count and are NOT accepted.

Thats what the Government is working on now.

"Students who have transferred out of CMU and have applied to other medical students have all been told that the classes and "credits" awarded by CMU do not count and are NOT accepted."

Thats not a proof that the clases wont count. Try to transfer to SGU and ask them if they will accept credits from other caribbean medical schools. They will tell you the same story.

[Dru]

Per RL's VMD signature:

***** *********

Caribbean Medical University
Discover More

[emt036]

Thats not a proof that the clases wont count. Try to transfer to SGU and ask them if they will accept credits from other caribbean medical schools. They will tell you the same story.

That CMU's credits are worthless?

ECFMG | News & Announcements (http://www.ecfmg.org/announce.htm#credits)

[Dru]

Thats not a proof that the clases wont count.



I apologize and stand corrected. The classes will count, but the credits will NOT.

See: ECFMG | News & Announcements (http://www.ecfmg.org/announce.htm#credits)

[Sree Cheruku]

I suggest that the CMU admins to respond to the original post, rather than to go after Dru or rokshana or anyone else here. Many of those allegations are serious, though not entirely unexpected given what we've seen here over the last couple months.


"Its not rokshana that makes courses count or not toward a legitimate degree."

Really? I tought she was a chief of medical licensing board.


You just quoted yourself, by the way.

[lswiltshire]

It boggles the mind that the CMU President can not understand that it is required to obtain a charter and be IMED listed BEFORE opening the doors of a med school.


It boggles the mind that prospective students would listen to anyone that tells them what they want to hear so that they can attend any bogus medical school that opens.

It boggles the mind that a person who was promoted to Dean of a true medical school that has struggled to do the right thing and to correct itself when challenged, would defect to a dump where the leadership does not know its right hand from the left (in other words they act like little children in both word and deed).

We have a right to see that this bogus school does not succeed.

[rlewkowski]

That CMU's credits are worthless?

ECFMG | News & Announcements (http://www.ecfmg.org/announce.htm#credits)

I’m surprised [edited for insults/flames]?
"For the purpose of ECFMG Certification, transferred academic credits earned on or after January 1, 2008, are restricted to:
Credits transferred from one IMED-listed medical school to another IMED-listed medical school.
Credits for courses taken at one medical school within seven years of the date of graduation at the medical school that accepts the transferred courses.
Credits for courses that were passed at the medical school at which the course was taken."

[emt036]

And I am continually surprised by your reality comprehension skills in the fact that CMU doesn't have a charter, and there is no indication that it will be IMED listed by Jan 1.

[finishingfifth]

CMU may exist on paper (their own paper, not a charter), but they have yet to prove any indication of recognition from the international or american medical community. RL can spin it any way he likes, the truth is that as of this moment, a degree from CMU is about as useful as a piece of charmin.

[eastern2western]

As of 8/26/07 my observations were:

When I go to the CMU website I see the phone number for contact in Chicago. It is listed as 847-299-5575. When I go to the reverse phone directory I get a lady listed with an apartment address on Milwaukee Avenue in Northbrook, Illinois. The other phone number for CMU is 847-299-5549. When I do a reverse phone search for it, I get a message that it is a cell number in some directories, and it is listed as a land line based in Des Plaines, Illinois in one reverse directory. The CMU website states that the Medical Education Management Group is their U.S. office. When I go to the address of 10275 West Higgins Road I find that it is an office building with 30 business including Proctor and Gamble, but the Medical Education Management Group is not listed. The CMU website has a page regarding the Dean of Students and his responsibilities. It includes a nice picture of a good looking man, but there is no name. When I go to the Caribbean phone directory and look up all the different medical schools, I see addresses and several phone numbers for each one. When I go to the Curacao white and yellow pages and look up CMU I keep getting "not on file" messages. The CMU website lists their Curacao address as WTC Piscadera Bay in Willenstad, which is the capital of Curacao. When I look at the WTC business who occupy office space, I do not find any listing for CMU. The CMU website lists two Curacao phone numbers (5999-463-6453 & 646-401-0636). When I do a reverse search in the Curacao phone directory I get "not on file" messages. When I go to the Curacao Commercial Register I find that CMU is listed as a LLC or Private Limited Liability Company, and it was just incorporated on 8/20/2007. It says it is a "Higher Vocational Education, Scientific & Research Institution, Organization and Coordination of Congresses, and Seminars and Conventions".

AND NOW FOR THE LATEST:

The government of Curacao requires a lump-sum payment of 3.2 million dollars in order to grant a charter. As of last week, CMU has not been granted a charter, nor have they even applied for it. In order for a med school to be legit they MUST be chartered BEFORE they open their doors and start their clases. CMU began classes in May, and to date they still have NO charter. Even if they obtain a charter at this late date, students have wasted their time and their money. None of the "credits" that they earned will be recognized by IMED or any school that students may attempt to transfer into.

To date there are 21 students "enrolled" at CMU. Six students were lured away from other schools and accepted as tansfers into CMU, and as of today, there is only ONE student of the six left. Three of the four students attempted to transfer back into their old schools, and they found that the work they did at CMU was not to be counted.

The CMU website lists a of 21 "faculty" members and "honorary professors".
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Faculty & Staff (http://www.cmumed.org/academics/faculty.htm)
(Actually Dr. D is listed twice, so it would be 20). The students that have transferred out of CMU report that the university is a BIG JOKE. They have had some classes in conference rooms rented at the WTC, but for the most part it is independent study, where materials are taken home, brought back, and they are given an A or a B. The students have NEVER seen more than 2 to 3 faculty members, and "classes" have been poor at best. They have reported that they have occasionally had lectures in "anatomy", and the student mix is premed students along side MD4 students.

In looking at the "faculty" list, I have found the following:

Dr. U D (listed twice on the CMU website) is the Dean. I wrote the exact same email to his private email address to ask if he is a CMU faculty member. I have NOT emailed him at the CMU campus, as I am sure that RL is probably answer for him. Thus far I have received no response from him via his private email, so I no confirmation from him verifying that he is dean or professor.

Dr. J P, per the CMU website, is the Dean of Basic Sciences. He has written several articles which appear on the internet, and the email addresses for them are not valid. My understanding is that he works or worked for St. James School of Medicine as a Pre-Med Science instructor.

Dr. T P is, I assume, is Dr. J P's wife. She is listed as the CMU Assistant Dean of Pre-Med Sciences. When I search the internet for any other accomplishments, I see nothing.

Dr. E E-S is apparently the former St. Martinus's Associate Dean of Basic Sciences. She has also been noted on an old SMU site as their Associate Professor in Physiology, Microbiology, and Clinical Medicine and the Dean of Basic Sciences. Although she is listed as being on the CMU faculty, I see no biography listed for her on the CMU site. She currently holds a Curacao work permit.

Dr. M R H likewise is listed as a CMU faculty member with no CMU biography. When I Google him I see that he did residency at St. John's Mercy Medical Center. He is/was at the University of Missouri School of Medicine as an Adjunjct Assistant Professor for the Dept. of Family and Community Medicine. He wrote a few articles and then seemingly dropped off the face of the earth.

Dr. K A & Dr. N D are listed on the CMU site, but neither have a biography there, and neither have any history of existance on the internet. I am not certain that they even exist.

Dr. S C is presently at the Institue of Post-Graduate Medical Education and Research in Kolkata, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list, but has no CMU bio.

Dr. S N (MS/PhD) is listed as an employee of the Care Hospital as a Biochemist in Hyderabad. He currently serves as the President Elect for the Association of Medical Biochemists of India, but he is listed on the CMU faculty list and has no CMU bio.

Of all the "faculty" members and "honorary professors" that CMU list, Dr. E E-S is the only one who has a Curacao legal work permit, so if there are any other professors actually in existance or working there, they are illegal.

There are currently 21 CMU students enrolled and attending the school, and the highest number reportedly was at 24. Tuition and fees are about $8000 per student, and this does not include living expenses.
See: CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Financial Aid - Tuition and Fees (http://www.cmumed.org/financialaid/tuition.htm)
Considering that CMU is not maintaining classrooms and probably not paying more than 2-3 "faculty" members, their overhead is very low. This means an estimated revenue of $200,000 for CMU (RL) for the first semester and about the same amount for Semester 2, for a total of approximately $400,000. All of the work and grades that students have achieved there are worthless, as no school or agency will consider them valid due to the lack of a charter.

I am deeply disappointed to report my opinion that CMU is a fake school. It is a diploma mill, and they have criminally taken money from students.
In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.
The common law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law) origins of defamation lie in the torts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort) of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.
"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.
A Libel, within the context of admiralty law, is the equivalent of a lawsult, and the "libellant" (or libalent) is the equivalent of a plaintiff in an action at law.

[canalboat]

As whtat's his name would say it...I think we should all drop out of the medicine business and produce a motion picture film. :jerry:

[FireFighterMD]

[quote=Dru;673153]I apologize and stand corrected. The classes will count, but the credits will NOT.


does that make sense ? Just wondering :roll:

[FireFighterMD]

Why is Dru being threatened with legal action ? What did she do that was wrong ? Can people be sued for what is said on an unofficial online forum ?

Does that mean that the thousands of folks on the thousands of online boards that bash political figures etc are legally liable ??

[eastern2western]

Why is Dru being threatened with legal action ? What did she do that was wrong ? Can people be sued for what is said on an unofficial online forum ?

Does that mean that the thousands of folks on the thousands of online boards that bash political figures etc are legally liable ??
I am not lawyer and I am not threatening anyone with any type of legal actions. The only thing that I am trying to show is that Dru is walking between a fine line between exercising her freedom of speech and defamation. Yes, Dru may not have to take any legal liability for the words that are written on valuemd because Dru is just a three letter name that is created by some unknown person. However, the major problem is that valuemd could be legally liable because it allowed Dru's opinion be posted. I will be honest with you that I am not sure about the laws regulating online posting. The only thing I can say is Dru's original post can be define as defamation if she does not have very strong objective evidence, not rumors.

[FireFighterMD]

I wasn't referring to you . I was referring to the comments by this user
Mr Dru
"... they have criminally taken money from students."

Please reveal your identity, even through PM and for those serious accusations we would have to clarify it in a court. You went too far.
__________________ "
***** *********

End of Quote.

[Genossa maximillian]

"Can people be sued for what is said on an unofficial online forum ? "

Yes, especially if the remarks are slanderous, libelous, ill intentioned, defamatory, etc.

"Does that mean that the thousands of folks on the thousands of online boards that bash political figures etc are legally liable ??

You just said it, POLITICAL FIGURES are considered public figures and believe it or not, are subject to a lesser standard of scrutiny. In the case we have here, RL is a private figure, he does not occupy any public office, is conducting business as a private entity, and I have seen some off color remarks that constitute serious allegations against him, though I do not condone the FACT that the school is operating without a charter, etc. Some people in these forums live under a false impression of what truly the 1st amenmend stands for. We all have to be careful of what we say and how we say it. To add gas to an already burning fire, the courts have been split over the issue of internet forums and slanderous, defamatory and libelous comments.

Now, Dru made some serious allegations, that of course considering he is a moderator for the forum makes things more interesting.

I leave it up to you folks to establish some civility and boundaries of what should be said and what should not be said. Bear in mind...accusations of any kind are always subject to scrutiny by the affected party and may (notice I say may) expose the accuser to legal action. (which by the way is very $$$)

Just my .0000002 c.

Peace to all

Max


Why is Dru being threatened with legal action ? What did she do that was wrong ? Can people be sued for what is said on an unofficial online forum ?

Does that mean that the thousands of folks on the thousands of online boards that bash political figures etc are legally liable ??

[Genossa maximillian]

You did your homework. Good job. Hopefully some people will learn something about it and be more careful ( Dru for example)

In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.
The common law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law) origins of defamation lie in the torts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort) of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.
"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.
A Libel, within the context of admiralty law, is the equivalent of a lawsult, and the "libellant" (or libalent) is the equivalent of a plaintiff in an action at law.

[diogenes]

AND NOW FOR THE LATEST:.........The government of Curacao requires a lump-sum payment of 3.2 million dollars in order to grant a charter..........

If you refer to RL's letter that he received from the Curacao government at:
CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Accreditations - School Charter (http://www.cmumed.org/about/charter.htm) (page down to the second letter, unless RL has removed it from the website)

This letter not only informs RL that he will require $3 million USD........

To date, the required amount reportedly is $3.2 million USD..............
Dru, no matter how many times you repeat this it is simply untrue, a travesty of what is actually said in the letter you yourself have directed us to. But perhaps you are basing the claim on something other than the letter? Clairvoyance?
What the letter actually says in the second paragraph is -
(having first acknowledged receipt of his"investment plan")
"especially your plan to.....invest after two years an additional US3 million for the campus, infrastructure improvements and student dormitories are welcomed by our Government"
I'll spell it out for you and anyone else who may have difficulty reading. This is not a licence/charter fee; nor is it stipulated that it must be a "lump-sum payment"; nor is it expected right now, but in two years time. It is simply an enthusiastic and courteous acknowledgement by the Governor of the island of CMU's business plan, submitted to another govt. department.
Sure, they may be disappointed if he doesn't keep to that plan either in terms of time or money. But it is not a fee and there is no reason to suppose his proposals are legally binding.
Why does your inaccuracy matter? Because it is a gross one (and seems to be accompanied in your post by other assertions which might be questioned); and because there is a whole arsenal of true and valid criticism to throw at CMU and its spokesman without the need to muddy the waters with this sensationalism (with gutter press headlines included). This near hysteria just spoils and weakens the excellent job that VMD members did at the outset in exposing the fundamentally unsound and deceptive nature of CMU so far in its short life. There is a useful, short, pithy post from emt036 just below yours which summarizes most of the complaints.
CMU and RL have invited us to go through the looking-glass into a topsy-turvy, inverted world where people get a license to practise before their med. school has even got a charter to issue M.D.'s or perhaps before they're born? Please don't pay them the compliment of accepting the invitation to fantasy land.

[studentdoctobe]

Whoa this is turning into a circus fest.

I remember a story I read somewhere in a news site;

A drug dealer and a drug user dialogue;

Drug user purchases low quality merchandise, goes home and uses it, discoveres it was "diluted" or mixed with something, whatever.

Next they call the drug dealer to refund their money, drug dealer refuses.

Drug user calls the cops; complains that he bought merchandise that was not up to par, walks them to the evidence to show them.

Cops proceed to arrest the drug user and pickup up the drugs and books it for eveidence. Hauls drug user to jail.




Essentially, RL has suddenly imagined that he has any leverage to sue anyone for bringing up information about CMU, and even threatens the lawyer phrase again, (never mind that he had thrown that out before and has yet to back up his threat by providing the contact details of the so called legal team).

RL you can sit there and fantasize about winning any case against any poster here for pointing out any details about the schemes you are running.

Fact of the matter is that you are far more culpable for so much more, any common sense should tell you that inviting a legal team into this mess has a huge potential to backfire and get you yourself in some very hot soup, refer to my little story above.

It is unimaginable that RL has somehow ignored the very "crimes" he has committed that are under his very nose and somehow managed to look beyond that to envision that he can or will get his day in court.

You need a reality check, so go ahead and get a legal team and with a countersuit see how far you can go. If not then do what you do best, avoiding questions that will expose your inconsistencies with any excuse you can come up with.

Keep a list RL and make sure to take it to court with you, unlike VMD, you can't double talk your way out of the legal system; Plagarizm, financial "fraud", "*****" by receiving, several counts of deception, several verbal, written and implied lies, masking the truth on your website and making claims to things you have not even achieved yet, i.e claiming to be IMED listed, claiming to have a charter, claiming clinicals locations and affiliation with hospitals that have never even heard of you, while others have downright blacklisted you (which might I remind you, you have recently conceded to and reluctantly corrected some, but not all of them) the list goes on.

Several posters have suddenly become experts in the law profession, ironically none of them are concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here. You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none, but not both.

Let the lawyers be the ones to decide what is what, all these "conclusions" are guessing at best. Your opinion of what is an "allegation" or not is simply that, your opinion.

Hirizal jumps out guns blazing, forgetting that he is actually a victim of the institution he is attempting to defend, but too gullible and deluded to figure it out yet. Oct 1st, 11 days and counting. You just shot yourself in the foot.

Reading your rants just confirms why you are susceptible to being a victim of CMU. Any one with any intelligence should not have to succumb to the circus known as CMU.

The fact of the matter is that without a charter, any school is wasting their time teaching students, students are wasting their time and money, no matter how much the students have been brainwashed to think otherwise.

Without being IMED listed, the credits for classes taken do not count for anything, nada. Waste of time.

Students are not eligible to sit for USLME exams nor can they go on to clinicals, nor can they become licensed physicians, in the USA.

No way around that!.

People can sit here and attack another person for posting the latest details, fact still remains, you have at some point or another said one thing or another that is as equal to or worse than what you are accusing them of, if not much worse, pointing a finger will not help you, because 4 fingers are pointing back at you.

CMU forum has enough information to drown CMU and it's list of cohorts, unless they are going to get the lawyers in here to start slicing and dicing the place up and start hauling people into the court, I suggest everyone pipe down and get back to the order of the day.

Which is discrediting CMU and all the "inconsistencies" within.

As usual, it is easier for CMU to distract from the issue at hand by double talking rather than to directly address the first post in this thread.

[studentdoctobe]

The overall responses on this thread really does show that THE TRUTH DOES INFACT HURT LIKE CRAZY.

[Genossa maximillian]

"concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here."

Yep, I assume you tell that to people with tens of thousands of posts here in just a few years (or months) while other have barely a percentage of that, good point.

" You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none"

Kind of a shortsighted point. Saw the guy from Harvard that completed both degrees (JD and MD)almost simultaneously? There are many other with both degrees, and use them to some extent, more than the others. Nothing wrong with applying your knowledge if you earned it.

Max






Whoa this is turning into a circus fest.

I remember a story I read somewhere in a news site;

A drug dealer and a drug user dialogue;

Drug user purchases low quality merchandise, goes home and uses it, discoveres it was "diluted" or mixed with something, whatever.

Next they call the drug dealer to refund their money, drug dealer refuses.

Drug user calls the cops; complains that he bought merchandise that was not up to par, walks them to the evidence to show them.

Cops proceed to arrest the drug user and pickup up the drugs and books it for eveidence. Hauls drug user to jail.




Essentially, RL has suddenly imagined that he has any leverage to sue anyone for bringing up information about CMU, and even threatens the lawyer phrase again, (never mind that he had thrown that out before and has yet to back up his threat by providing the contact details of the so called legal team).

RL you can sit there and fantasize about winning any case against any poster here for pointing out any details about the schemes you are running.

Fact of the matter is that you are far more culpable for so much more, any common sense should tell you that inviting a legal team into this mess has a huge potential to backfire and get you yourself in some very hot soup, refer to my little story above.

It is unimaginable that RL has somehow ignored the very "crimes" he has committed that are under his very nose and somehow managed to look beyond that to envision that he can or will get his day in court.

You need a reality check, so go ahead and get a legal team and with a countersuit see how far you can go. If not then do what you do best, avoiding questions that will expose your inconsistencies with any excuse you can come up with.

Keep a list RL and make sure to take it to court with you, unlike VMD, you can't double talk your way out of the legal system; Plagarizm, financial "fraud", "*****" by receiving, several counts of deception, several verbal, written and implied lies, masking the truth on your website and making claims to things you have not even achieved yet, i.e claiming to be IMED listed, claiming to have a charter, claiming clinicals locations and affiliation with hospitals that have never even heard of you, while others have downright blacklisted you (which might I remind you, you have recently conceded to and reluctantly corrected some, but not all of them) the list goes on.

Several posters have suddenly become experts in the law profession, ironically none of them are concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here. You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none, but not both.

Let the lawyers be the ones to decide what is what, all these "conclusions" are guessing at best. Your opinion of what is an "allegation" or not is simply that, your opinion.

Hirizal jumps out guns blazing, forgetting that he is actually a victim of the institution he is attempting to defend, but too gullible and deluded to figure it out yet. Oct 1st, 11 days and counting. You just shot yourself in the foot.

Reading your rants just confirms why you are susceptible to being a victim of CMU. Any one with any intelligence should not have to succumb to the circus known as CMU.

The fact of the matter is that without a charter, any school is wasting their time teaching students, students are wasting their time and money, no matter how much the students have been brainwashed to think otherwise.

Without being IMED listed, the credits for classes taken do not count for anything, nada. Waste of time.

Students are not eligible to sit for USLME exams nor can they go on to clinicals, nor can they become licensed physicians, in the USA.

No way around that!.

People can sit here and attack another person for posting the latest details, fact still remains, you have at some point or another said one thing or another that is as equal to or worse than what you are accusing them of, if not much worse, pointing a finger will not help you, because 4 fingers are pointing back at you.

CMU forum has enough information to drown CMU and it's list of cohorts, unless they are going to get the lawyers in here to start slicing and dicing the place up and start hauling people into the court, I suggest everyone pipe down and get back to the order of the day.

Which is discrediting CMU and all the "inconsistencies" within.

As usual, it is easier for CMU to distract from the issue at hand by double talking rather than to directly address the first post in this thread.

[studentdoctobe]

"concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here."

Yep, I assume you tell that to people with tens of thousands of posts here in just a few years (or months) while other have barely a percentage of that, good point.

" You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none"

Kind of a shortsighted point. Saw the guy from Harvard that completed both degrees (JD and MD)almost simultaneously? There are many other with both degrees, and use them to some extent, more than the others. Nothing wrong with applying your knowledge if you earned it.

Max

Shortsighted? I think you might have missed my point by more than a mile.

Some guy in Harvard? try again when my statement applies to any of you on VMD.

[studentdoctobe]

You are right. I consider myself very objective with this and any school, but Dru, you just made some serious allegations and as eastern2western says it may open a Pandora's box for you, VMD and all of us. Diploma mill, fraud, scam, dude, that is serious stuff that you will need hardcore evidence (beyond circumstantial) to prove them, other wise, kaboom! open Pandora. It happened to me dude, so I am talking by my own personal experience ( it took me while to handle it, and I do have legal experience, not to brag about it).

Good luck to all.
This is entirely too vague, vague enough to offer false hopes to the likes of RL.

Fact remains I'm sure you know exactly what you did that got you into hot water, insinuating an expertise in an area where you may have targeted someone and it burnt you is unfortunate, now unless that someone was as "dirty" as the individual involved in this case is, as is evident in this case, this individual going after the people they feel are targeting them, in this case will certainly backfire.

The thing is, if you slander anyone, without proof or evidence, they only have a case if and only if, what you have slandered them with is so far from the truth everyone in the courthouse can and will see it. There is never any smoke without a fire.

Not in a case where you make reference to an individual whom you know that if in the even that he so much as approaches a courtroom, even more damning evidence will be uncovered about their "business practices", that could infact support the so called slander and make it pointless to fight a slander case, and the case turns around on the individual and becomes a case of prosecuting the accuser.

So you need to take a close look at your personal situation and try not to compare apples to oranges.

[diogenes]

Whoa this is turning into a circus fest.
I agree with that much. Although I'm not sure whether it is best described as circus, Mardi gras carnival or perhaps mob lynching: it has elements of all those things.
Several posters have suddenly become experts in the law profession, ironically none of them are concerned about wether or not they focus on their medical career and achieve that or not, an actual doctor will be too busy with patients to be posting here. This tired old argument has been much abused on VMD. Who are you to decide whether they are spending enough time on their patients, their studies or whatever? What fiendish methods have you at your disposal to adequately time their activities?
You are either a doctor or a lawyer or none, but not both.Looks good rhetorically. Alas, it is completely untrue.
Let the lawyers be the ones to decide what is what, all these "conclusions" are guessing at best. Your opinion of what is an "allegation" or not is simply that, your opinion.I believe this originated with Genossa Maximillian's warnings to posters to keep in mind the law of defamation when they get a little carried away with their adjectives. He also suggested that we should be mindful of the need to behave in a responsible, mature and professional way (my take, from memory, on what he wrote). An essential part of both the legal and the moral objectives above is a respect for the truth - after all, aren't we lambasting CMU for its lack of it? So, yes, there may be a few barrack-room lawyers amongst us; but it will do no harm if it moderates a sometimes irrational and intemperate debate.
People can sit here and attack another person for posting the latest details, fact still remains, you have at some point or another said one thing or another that is as equal to or worse than what you are accusing them of, if not much worse, pointing a finger will not help you, because 4 fingers are pointing back at you.I'm sorry that you see it as something as childish as finger-pointing; but retaliating with "4 fingers pointing back at you" is hardly the best way to make your case; in fact it just sounds intimidatory in its intent. Yes, I/we have done all sorts of things wrong in our lives - mea/nostra culpa: fact is though its got nothing to do with what we're talking about!
The original post made an assertion which was patently incorrect (as well as some others which I think were questionable). I did wonder if my reply was too harsh. However, the fact that she maintained her line and didn't review her supposed source, even after G-Max had questioned the likelihood, seemed a culpable carelessness. Why bother correcting it? Dubious and corrupt schools use any pieces of misinformation they can find on VMD to rubbish the whole forum. Likewise, not all prospective students are as enamoured with VMD as we are; they can and sometimes do ignore warnings about schools and justify this by pointing to innacuracies. Why give them the opportunity? If we demand the "truth" so righteously from the likes of CMU what gives us the right to dispense with it ourselves?
Also, why pretend that the hundreds of posts on this forum are all saying something new, original and important? The fact is mostly we're rehashing the same few major points again and again - it's quite rare for anything new to crop up.
CMU forum has enough information to drown CMU and it's list of cohorts,You said it! So we don't need to use misinformation.
I suggest everyone pipe down and get back to the order of the day.
Which is discrediting CMU and all the "inconsistencies" within.
This battle cry I find the most disturbing part of your post: it does sound a bit like the lynch mob or carnival atmosphere I mentioned at the start. So we must dispense with accuracy, truth etc. and get back to our god-given task of discrediting CMU at any cost? This is sounding more and more like the St. Christophers' forum of old; where there could be no middle ground - you were either for us or against us; where anyone disputing either party line was cheaply dismissed as either "cheerleader" or "basher". It has already dismayed me to see this mindlessness rearing its ugly head on the CMU forum (e.g. attributing some hidden and malign motive to Genossa Maximillian when he urged caution).
As usual, it is easier for CMU to distract from the issue at hand by double talking rather than to directly address the first post in this thread.
Which, as I've explained above, they will do with glee and aplomb if we don't respect the truth.

[studentdoctobe]

I agree with that much. Although I'm not sure whether it is best described as circus, Mardi gras carnival or perhaps mob lynching: it has elements of all those things.
This tired old argument has been much abused on VMD. Who are you to decide whether they are spending enough time on their patients, their studies or whatever? What fiendish methods have you at your disposal to adequately time their activities?
Looks good rhetorically. Alas, it is completely untrue.
I believe this originated with Genossa Maximillian's warnings to posters to keep in mind the law of defamation when they get a little carried away with their adjectives. He also suggested that we should be mindful of the need to behave in a responsible, mature and professional way (my take, from memory, on what he wrote). An essential part of both the legal and the moral objectives above is a respect for the truth - after all, aren't we lambasting CMU for its lack of it? So, yes, there may be a few barrack-room lawyers amongst us; but it will do no harm if it moderates a sometimes irrational and intemperate debate.
I'm sorry that you see it as something as childish as finger-pointing; but retaliating with "4 fingers pointing back at you" is hardly the best way to make your case; in fact it just sounds intimidatory in its intent. Yes, I/we have done all sorts of things wrong in our lives - mea/nostra culpa: fact is though its got nothing to do with what we're talking about!
The original post made an assertion which was patently incorrect (as well as some others which I think were questionable). I did wonder if my reply was too harsh. However, the fact that she maintained her line and didn't review her supposed source, even after G-Max had questioned the likelihood, seemed a culpable carelessness. Why bother correcting it? Dubious and corrupt schools use any pieces of misinformation they can find on VMD to rubbish the whole forum. Likewise, not all prospective students are as enamoured with VMD as we are; they can and sometimes do ignore warnings about schools and justify this by pointing to innacuracies. Why give them the opportunity? If we demand the "truth" so righteously from the likes of VMD what gives us the right to dispense with it ourselves?
Also, why pretend that the hundreds of posts on this forum are all saying something new, original and important? The fact is mostly we're rehashing the same few major points again and again - it's quite rare for anything new to crop up.
You said it! So we don't need to use misinformation.
This battle cry I find the most disturbing part of your post: it does sound a bit like the lynch mob or carnival atmosphere I mentioned at the start. So we must dispense with accuracy, truth etc. and get back to our god-given task of discrediting CMU at any cost? This is sounding more and more like the St. Christophers' forum of old; where there could be no middle ground - you were either for us or against us; where anyone disputing either party line was cheaply dismissed as either "cheerleader" or "basher". It has already dismayed me to see this mindlessness rearing its ugly head on the CMU forum (e.g. attributing some hidden and malign motive to Genossa Maximillian when he urged caution).
Which, as I've explained above, they will do with glee and aplomb if we don't respect the truth.
Please, log off and try not to return to CMU forum, no need for hypocrisy.

How many of you exactly come here to empathise with CMU. Save the semantics.

The rest are just words, on a good day I could bother to respond to them, not today, if after reading my post and that is all you got from it, there is obviously no need to go back and forth with you.

[lswiltshire]

I think that Diogenes and MAx have both spoken well.

I respect the very sound reasoning of Diogenes and the legal expertise of G Max.

No one wants CMU to fold more than me. CMU is to me a very great dissapointment. Initially I was enthusiastic about it, because I hoped that it would have nailed SJMS to the cross.

But instead CMU has displayed all the diabolical deviousness that RL learned on Bonaire from both the activitiers of SJSM and XUSOM. I had hoped that CMU would have run a good cleasn shop and send these two evil organisations into oblivion. But instead CMU is a thousand times worse!

However, CMU has done so much to discredit itself that there is no reason under the sun for Dru or anyone else to lie. All we need do is to consistently and consciensiously post the truth, and run them ragged. Close the school by informing prospective students until there are no students. It can be done, just as it has been done before.

There is a fixed cost to operate, once there are insufficient students to pay fixed costs the school must fold. Just be patient and practical and post perennially...........and presto we will choke CMU to death.

[Genossa maximillian]

You assumptions are , as usual, off the mark with all due respect you don't have a good idea on how certain things work or what you are talking so blindly about and even worse, don't want to listen about. There are lots of gray areas sir or madam. Lots of them, and me, Diogenes and some other reasonable people here know that things are not only black and white as you prefer to see them.


Cheers

Max



? This is entirely too vague, vague enough to offer false hopes to the likes of RL.

Fact remains I'm sure you know exactly what you did that got you into hot water, insinuating an expertise in an area where you may have targeted someone and it burnt you is unfortunate, now unless that someone was as "dirty" as the individual involved in this case is, as is evident in this case, this individual going after the people they feel are targeting them, in this case will certainly backfire.

The thing is, if you slander anyone, without proof or evidence, they only have a case if and only if, what you have slandered them with is so far from the truth everyone in the courthouse can and will see it. There is never any smoke without a fire.

Not in a case where you make reference to an individual whom you know that if in the even that he so much as approaches a courtroom, even more darning evidence will be uncovered about their "business practices", that could infact support the so called slander and make it pointless to fight a slander case, and the case turns around on the individual and becomes a case of prosecuting the accuser.

So you need to take a close look at your personal situation and try not to compare apples to oranges.

[Genossa maximillian]

Amen to that Diogenes, amen to that.

I agree with that much. Although I'm not sure whether it is best described as circus, Mardi gras carnival or perhaps mob lynching: it has elements of all those things.
This tired old argument has been much abused on VMD. Who are you to decide whether they are spending enough time on their patients, their studies or whatever? What fiendish methods have you at your disposal to adequately time their activities?
Looks good rhetorically. Alas, it is completely untrue.
I believe this originated with Genossa Maximillian's warnings to posters to keep in mind the law of defamation when they get a little carried away with their adjectives. He also suggested that we should be mindful of the need to behave in a responsible, mature and professional way (my take, from memory, on what he wrote). An essential part of both the legal and the moral objectives above is a respect for the truth - after all, aren't we lambasting CMU for its lack of it? So, yes, there may be a few barrack-room lawyers amongst us; but it will do no harm if it moderates a sometimes irrational and intemperate debate.
I'm sorry that you see it as something as childish as finger-pointing; but retaliating with "4 fingers pointing back at you" is hardly the best way to make your case; in fact it just sounds intimidatory in its intent. Yes, I/we have done all sorts of things wrong in our lives - mea/nostra culpa: fact is though its got nothing to do with what we're talking about!
The original post made an assertion which was patently incorrect (as well as some others which I think were questionable). I did wonder if my reply was too harsh. However, the fact that she maintained her line and didn't review her supposed source, even after G-Max had questioned the likelihood, seemed a culpable carelessness. Why bother correcting it? Dubious and corrupt schools use any pieces of misinformation they can find on VMD to rubbish the whole forum. Likewise, not all prospective students are as enamoured with VMD as we are; they can and sometimes do ignore warnings about schools and justify this by pointing to innacuracies. Why give them the opportunity? If we demand the "truth" so righteously from the likes of CMU what gives us the right to dispense with it ourselves?
Also, why pretend that the hundreds of posts on this forum are all saying something new, original and important? The fact is mostly we're rehashing the same few major points again and again - it's quite rare for anything new to crop up.
You said it! So we don't need to use misinformation.
This battle cry I find the most disturbing part of your post: it does sound a bit like the lynch mob or carnival atmosphere I mentioned at the start. So we must dispense with accuracy, truth etc. and get back to our god-given task of discrediting CMU at any cost? This is sounding more and more like the St. Christophers' forum of old; where there could be no middle ground - you were either for us or against us; where anyone disputing either party line was cheaply dismissed as either "cheerleader" or "basher". It has already dismayed me to see this mindlessness rearing its ugly head on the CMU forum (e.g. attributing some hidden and malign motive to Genossa Maximillian when he urged caution).
Which, as I've explained above, they will do with glee and aplomb if we don't respect the truth.

[Genossa maximillian]

Short of throwing a tantrum you suggest Diogenes to log off? Reminds of RL.

Please, log off and try not to return to CMU forum, no need for hypocrisy.

How many of you exactly come here to empathise with CMU. Save the semantics.

The rest are just words, on a good day I could bother to respond to them, not today, if after reading my post and that is all you got from it, there is obviously no need to go back and forth with you.

[Genossa maximillian]

...I didn't miss your point, you are the one implying that people are so ignorant and ill educated that they can't do both things, being a lawyer and a doctor (you must be speaking for yourself I guess), I am counter arguing with an example, a guy from Harvard, and yes, there are a few here in valuemd that are both.

Cheers

Max

Shortsighted? I think you might have missed my point by more than a mile.

Some guy in Harvard? try again when my statement applies to any of you on VMD.

[teratos]

I think some people get involved in this debate because they enjoy the argument, and some get involved because they truly feel CMU is a scam, and even 1 student who gets duped is too many.

I don't know about the facts behind a lot of what DRU posted. What I do know is that CMU doesn't have a charter, and without that they cannot provide a medical education. Since they are accepting money from people with the understanding that said people will be able to practice medicine in the US, and so far there is no evidence that the school has the ability to provide that, isn't that fraud? I think it is.

Max, maybe you can set me straight on this, but it seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud? It has neither a charter, nor an IMED listing. The prerequisites for granting an MD. All RL can do is post ad hominem attacks.... If the main points of Dru's arguments are verifiable, and they are by RL's own posts, can some of the finer points be grounds for a suit???

If the ma

[eastern2western]

deleted due to confusion

[studentdoctobe]

...I didn't miss your point, you are the one implying that people are so ignorant and ill educated that they can't do both things, being a lawyer and a doctor (you must be speaking for yourself I guess), I am counter arguing with an example, a guy from Harvard, and yes, there are a few here in valuemd that are both.

Cheers

Max
You have taken my words out of context and ended up CONFUSING YOURSELF COMPLETELY. :lol:

Try reading my post again and see if it will make sense a second time around. The part where I said, NONE OF YOU HERE ARE EITHER A DOCTOR OR LAWYER OR NONE, NOT BOTH.

Leave the Harvard guy and others out of it, YOU are not both a lawyer and a doctor, so.

You are the one that bear the marks of a lawsuit, how smart does that make you. :lol:

Just try not to get caught in THIS ONE AGAIN, at the rate you are going!

Out!

[TonyIvey]

genossa I have a hard time keeping track of your views.i'm getting the impression of being rather two-faced.you are getting on the two sides of the fence when it's convenient. no offence.

[eastern2western]

I am writing this message for all students who are attending or interested in a caribbean school's premed program because Dru's original post informed me that there are students attending CMU's premed program.
1) All premed units from a caribbean are expensier than what you pay at your local community colleges. Most us-tax-paying residents are entitle to the low-cost benefits of their local community colleges because a majority of the cost is funded by government' tax revenue. Private schools are much more expensive because their sole source of income is from the students. According to the CMU wbsite, the school's premed program is 4900 dollars a semester and 2200 dollars more for school dorms. Now, i am just using CMU just an example and I believe all private schools have similar rates. If u just spend that money on a regular cc, the 4900 dollars alone will be more than enough to cover at least 245 semester units of class at the rate of twenty dollars per unit (around where I live). If you fruther break 245 semester units into about 15 units per semester (minimum units in order to graduate in 4 years), then you are looking at about 16 semesters and that is about 8 years of community college at the rate of 2 semester per year. Thus, the moral of the story is the cost of one semester at a caribbean school is more than enough to pay fo all of the cost of your education at your local cc.
2) All premed units from any caribbean college are not transferable to any us colleges. US colleges do not care about which caribbean school you took your premed from and how much you pay for your units because they only care if your units are from their circle of approved schools. 100% of the time, those approved schools are schools from united states and majority of them are probably publically funded schools. If a student ever decides to go back to the states after so many semesters of premed in a caribbean school for what ever reason (party too much, girlfriend dumped because she realized that she likes girls better, no more money etc.) and decide to go back to the states to finish an undergraduate degree, then this person can count that period of time as one expensive vacation because all of those caribbean pre-med units are none-transferable. You can make all the crying and appeal you like, but those are the rules and they will never change.
3) Good luck to the students who are taking premed at cmu and let this post be a warning to any us students who want to jump the gun and ignore their local cc.
Conclusion
It is always smart to finish all of premed requirements in a cc first and then go into a caribbean med school after the necessary units are done. Folks, this is all politics and politics do not care about your grades or how much your pay for your caribbean units because it only cares about which school your units are from.

[diogenes]

genossa I have a hard time keeping track of your views.i'm getting the impression of being rather two-faced.you are getting on the two sides of the fence when it's convenient. no offence.
It amazes and sickens me (every bit as much as I am disgusted by the antics of CMU) that people who try to have regard for all the facts, not just the convenient ones, are accused of fence-sitting. And what precisely is two-faced about his stance? Is he not making all the right noises according to your view of how the orchestra should be conducted? no offence.

[stephew]

I will give you all one freebie- ANY violations of tos will result in an infraction.

[diogenes]

Please, log off and try not to return to CMU forum, no need for hypocrisy.

How many of you exactly come here to empathise with CMU. Save the semantics.

The rest are just words, on a good day I could bother to respond to them, not today, if after reading my post and that is all you got from it, there is obviously no need to go back and forth with you.
"hypocrisy"- where? I haven't criticised you or anyone else for making legitimate points against CMU - especially if they add something to our knowledge. It should be quite clear that whilst I don't frequent this forum to "empathise with CMU" and don't expect others to either, I do care about truth and accuracy and so should everyone who wants to see VMD used effectively against charlatans.
"Semantics"- I'm not sure what that has to do with my post.
"just words" - I'm afraid these are all we have (you included), unless you want to organize a VMD posse to visit Curacao and wreak vengeance on CMU.

[TonyIvey]

It amazes and sickens me (every bit as much as I am disgusted by the antics of CMU) that people who try to have regard for all the facts, not just the convenient ones, are accused of fence-sitting. And what precisely is two-faced about his stance? Is he not making all the right noises according to your view of how the orchestra should be conducted? no offence.
You shuld know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.keep your own and I'll kep mine.good.

[Haiku]

I will give you all one freebie- ANY violations of tos will result in an infraction.

Is this a Wednesday night special on ValueMD?

[eastern2western]

unless you want to organize a VMD posse to visit Curacao and wreak vengeance on CMU.

Dude, vengeance is a very strong word. Did CMU killed one of your relatives or love ones?

[DOCplucinski]

CMU gets more hits and posts than any other thread as of late. i leave for like 3 hours, come back and there is 10 more pages written.

[eastern2western]

The weird part is that most of the posts are from people who do not even attend cmu at all.

[TonyIvey]

Dude, vengeance is a very strong word. Did CMU killed one of your relatives or love ones?I may be new here but I can't help thinking I really need to catch up on some of the older members here.a lot moe will be learned haha

[DOCplucinski]

I may be new here but I can't help thinking I really need to catch up on some of the older members here.a lot moe will be learned haha
indeed

actually i'd say 90% of the posts are from those who are in no way affiliated with CMU. only RL and occasional student posts

[eastern2western]

Eventually, the CMU's legeitimacy should be tested by the students' first board exam. I am sure that the school's students are probably going to finish their basic sciences soon and try to sit for the boards. If they can not sit for the boards due to CMU's legal problems, then I am sure that one of them will step up and post his opinion about cmu on valuemd.

[Genossa maximillian]

I do not to commit to any particular views because I am trying to be impartial, RL screws up I point it out, Dru screws up I point out, I screw up I would admit it. People seem to have a problem with impartiality these days I guess, it may be perceived as two-faced. The comment does not bother me at all. Thanks Tony! ;)

genossa I have a hard time keeping track of your views.i'm getting the impression of being rather two-faced.you are getting on the two sides of the fence when it's convenient. no offence.

[Genossa maximillian]

Again with your assumption. But that's ok, I am used to them.




You have taken my words out of context and ended up CONFUSING YOURSELF COMPLETELY. :lol:

Try reading my post again and see if it will make sense a second time around. The part where I said, NONE OF YOU HERE ARE EITHER A DOCTOR OR LAWYER OR NONE, NOT BOTH.

Leave the Harvard guy and others out of it, YOU are not both a lawyer and a doctor, so.

You are the one that bear the marks of a lawsuit, how smart does that make you. :lol:

Just try not to get caught in THIS ONE AGAIN, at the rate you are going!

Out!

[Genossa maximillian]

We have discussed the Dru's remarks. Check the replies to it by Diogenes, eastern2western and myself. They are pretty clear. For starters Dru blew the whole charter fee out of proportions with apparent sensationalist reasons, notice I say apparent. Dru obviously mis-read the whole business proposal, thought and considered it a fee and voila, posted it as a fact, it is pointed out to him that he has made a mistake in his interpretation, yet he posted is as a fact,which made him look as bad and ignorant as RL and his insane arguments. Two wrongs wont make one right Teratos. Not even if another Moderator is involved.

One thing is undeniable and simple to verify....WE ALL agree CMU lacks a charter and license, now the tricky part of it will be what will constitute specific intent to commit fraud or not. What will happen, hypothetically speaking if a charter is produced? A government official has already said that they are in the process of getting it. Can we agree to that? Or our blind anger towards CMU is not letting us see that? There is a possibility there. What will be the new allegations against CMU if they get a charter?

I am sorry, but I do not see this as one of those Nigerian Oil scam emails, this situation apparently is more complex than that because at first sight it look to me that RL is simply incompetent, immature, didn't knew what he was walking into (and still doesn't), went ahead with the idea, assumed way too many things and took his assumptions as facts. If anyone can point at his specific intent and conspiracy to commit fraud I will be the first one to compliment it. You want to say that, fine go ahead and say it. I won't. I want to see what happens with the dang charter thing before jumping into conclusions.

To answer your question..."t seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud?" By definition yes, however I have to ask : are we seeing A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised; do we know to a certainty that CMU and RL do not INTENT to deliver on their promise? Thats is what holds me back Teratos, that is the question that bothers deep in my mind.

Your other question..." can some of the finer points be grounds for a suit???" I would be very careful with the "they have criminally taken money from students" Very serious accusation that, if the charter is ever granted will be good ammunition for a potential lawsuit based on defamation which is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation.

Remember Delphi School of medicine? Some people, myself included were forced by VMD administration to modify similar comments because they (Delphi) threatened with legal action.

What should have been done is very simple: Clear all the red tape THEN, only then open the school. But that did not happened and irreparable damage has been done.

Good night to all!

Max


I think some people get involved in this debate because they enjoy the argument, and some get involved because they truly feel CMU is a scam, and even 1 student who gets duped is too many.

I don't know about the facts behind a lot of what DRU posted. What I do know is that CMU doesn't have a charter, and without that they cannot provide a medical education. Since they are accepting money from people with the understanding that said people will be able to practice medicine in the US, and so far there is no evidence that the school has the ability to provide that, isn't that fraud? I think it is.

Max, maybe you can set me straight on this, but it seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud? It has neither a charter, nor an IMED listing. The prerequisites for granting an MD. All RL can do is post ad hominem attacks.... If the main points of Dru's arguments are verifiable, and they are by RL's own posts, can some of the finer points be grounds for a suit???

If the ma

[rokshana]

talk about beating a dead horse....

[Genossa maximillian]

I said that myself and here I am like a perfect bum beating it all over again :shock:

Guess I got addicted....HELP!!!!!

talk about beating a dead horse....

[eastern2western]

We have discussed the Dru's remarks. Check the replies to it by Diogenes, eastern2western and myself. They are pretty clear. For starters Dru blew the whole charter fee out of proportions with apparent sensationalist reasons, notice I say apparent. Dru obviously mis-read the whole business proposal, thought and considered it a fee and voila, posted it as a fact, it is pointed out to him that he has made a mistake in his interpretation, yet he posted is as a fact,which is as bad as RL and his inane arguments. If it would have been RL, well, we have an entire forum that is self explanatory on what would have happened. Two wrongs wont make one right Teratos. Not even if another Moderator is involved.

One thing is undeniable and simple to verify....WE ALL agree CMU lacks a charter and license, now the tricky part of it will be what will constitute specific intent to commit fraud or not. What will happen, hypothetically speaking if a charter is produced? A government official has already said that they are in the process of getting it. Can we agree to that? Or our blind anger towards CMU is not letting us see that? There is a possibility there. What will be the new allegations against CMU if they get a charter?

I am sorry, but I do not see this as one of those Nigerian Oil scam emails, this situation apparently is more complex than that because at first sight it look to me that RL is simply incompetent, immature, didn't knew what he was walking into (and still doesn't), went ahead with the idea, assumed way too many things and took his assumptions as facts. If anyone can point at his specific intent and conspiracy to commit fraud I will be the first one to compliment it. You want to say that, fine go ahead and say it. I won't. I want to see what happens with the dang charter thing before jumping into conclusions.

To answer your question..."t seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud?" By definition yes, however I have to ask : are we seeing A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised; do we know to a certainty that CMU and RL do not INTENT to deliver on their promise? Thats is what holds me back Teratos.

What should have been done is very simple: Clear all the red tape THEN, only then open the school. But that did not happened and irreparable damage has been done.

Max
Speaking like a man with some legal background. I have to give you compliments because your words are very well chosen. There are some people around here are way too hot headed and it is time for them to calm down. Yes CMU has its fallacies, but it is not okay for other people make direct accusations about the school without some actual proofs.

[Scott1981]

if they eventually get a charter (not holding my breath any time soon.... or even this year), the next issue will be their clinical setup..... or lack thereof. if they get the charter and true hospital affiliations..... then guess what..... they just met the minimum requirements for students to get licensed.

however, with all the double talk, dodging of questions, empty promises, self imposed deadlines that pass with excuses........ i dont know if these two things wil ever happen.

[Maxinne]

Even if they get a charter, they will not survive.
By the time they get a charter, the damage to their reputation would be irreversible.
How can Enron come back and try to re-build again - impossible.
The stain of all the lies and shady tactics will be too deep to clean off.
The stigma of a shady man involved in the school can never be erased.
The shady man cannot be reformed - and for that they cannot stand a chance to reform the school.
The news of the scams would have travelled far and wide - no students will be comfortable of them being reformed - except the ones already there - and they will not remain there if the charter does not come soon enough.
The school is doomed for ultimate failure just by the nature of the way they run it.
They can never recover - fully.
They will close down forever - eventually.

[Maxinne]

We have discussed the Dru's remarks. Check the replies to it by Diogenes, eastern2western and myself. They are pretty clear. For starters Dru blew the whole charter fee out of proportions with apparent sensationalist reasons, notice I say apparent. Dru obviously mis-read the whole business proposal, thought and considered it a fee and voila, posted it as a fact, it is pointed out to him that he has made a mistake in his interpretation, yet he posted is as a fact,which made him look as bad and ignorant as RL and his insane arguments. Two wrongs wont make one right Teratos. Not even if another Moderator is involved.

One thing is undeniable and simple to verify....WE ALL agree CMU lacks a charter and license, now the tricky part of it will be what will constitute specific intent to commit fraud or not. What will happen, hypothetically speaking if a charter is produced? A government official has already said that they are in the process of getting it. Can we agree to that? Or our blind anger towards CMU is not letting us see that? There is a possibility there. What will be the new allegations against CMU if they get a charter?

I am sorry, but I do not see this as one of those Nigerian Oil scam emails, this situation apparently is more complex than that because at first sight it look to me that RL is simply incompetent, immature, didn't knew what he was walking into (and still doesn't), went ahead with the idea, assumed way too many things and took his assumptions as facts. If anyone can point at his specific intent and conspiracy to commit fraud I will be the first one to compliment it. You want to say that, fine go ahead and say it. I won't. I want to see what happens with the dang charter thing before jumping into conclusions.

To answer your question..."t seems the facts point to this "school" being unable to deliver on its promises. As such, isn't it reasonable to call it a fraud?" By definition yes, however I have to ask : are we seeing A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised; d