Charter Issues

[rlewkowski]

CMU has nothing to discuss in this or any public forum and all inquiries pertaining CMU and it's operational-governmental issues should be addressed to CMU's legal counsel and they will attend your inquiry in due time.

[Scott1981]

CMU has nothing to discuss in this or any public forum and all inquiries pertaining CMU and it's operational-governmental issues should be addressed to CMU's legal counsel and they will attend your inquiry in due time.

once again you have shown why ALL potential students should RUN from this place. you dance around the charter questions and inquiries and promise proof for the past few months. then you show us documents that are quickly dissected in the PUBLIC FORUM showing that CMU DOES NOT have a charter and the charter they claim to use (CIU) is not authorized for MEDICAL DEGREES.

you show us a document from the curacao govt which tells you to follow certain procedures to correctly obtain a charter, which only proves that you have not even began the charter process with CMU in the govt. they basically told you that whatever process you were following was one that they did not approve of and wanted you to follow their correct protocol.

so you get upset that we called you out on this. RL, we are not fools. the public forum will always find the truth one way or another. just look at what happened to d rather from cbs. the public forum quickly got to the bottom of the forged bush national guard documents. this is what makes the internet wonderful. you hate public forums like this because you cant spin our questions and all your "shady" documents will be taken apart with a fine comb very easily here exposing your "school."

so you promise the other day to show us a "special" document to prove us all wrong about the charter. naturally you return on the other thread and make up an excuse (lots of meeting today, didnt get time to scan the thing, etc). a few minutes later on this thread, you claim that you will no longer answer ANY charter questions.

well mr. rl, you really shouldnt be on VMD as a school official because all you want to do on here is promote your school. you WILL NOT answer ANY serious questions about your school's important issues pertaining to the career's of all your potential students. i think its a pity, and i think you should resign the "school official" title from your username.

you really dont care to answer any questions about your school that you dont "approve" of because they will clearly show the MAJOR deficiencies of the place.

one question, when did you start thinking that we all had IQ's of 50?

disclaimer- this is all my opinion on the recent charter events (or lack there of)

[dt]

CMU has nothing to discuss in this or any public forum and all inquiries pertaining CMU and it's operational-governmental issues should be addressed to CMU's legal counsel and they will attend your inquiry in due time.


How does one contact your legal counsel? What is the contact info? Or, is there a link you can provide?

[emt036]

Just FYI, hiding behind lawyers for such important questions such as whether CMU has the legal right to operate a medical school and grant MD degrees does not bolster your credibility nor dispel any impressions of scam.

[finishingfifth]

Can rok have her shiny EC now?

[Maxinne]

RL I do believe your biggest mistake is not thinking you can open a medical school all by yourself, but by showing up here on VMD to beat your chest about the attempt and in so doing you have single handedly detroyed the very same thing you set out to do.
You have dug a hole so deep and so wide you may never get out of it.
You must stop digging now and find someone who can lend you a hand to get out of the hole.
If you are lucky you will get out at all.
If not, you may just find yourself lost in a hole in the ground with no way out ever.
What a pity.

[finishingfifth]

Is your counsel in the US or curacao, that way we know who students should contact if legal issues arise. Names? Address? If you are going to hide behind lawyers atleast give us a way to contact them.

[Maxinne]

once again you have shown why ALL potential students should RUN from this place. you dance around the charter questions and inquiries and promise proof for the past few months. then you show us documents that are quickly dissected in the PUBLIC FORUM showing that CMU DOES NOT have a charter and the charter they claim to use (CIU) is not authorized for MEDICAL DEGREES.

you show us a document from the curacao govt which tells you to follow certain procedures to correctly obtain a charter, which only proves that you have not even began the charter process with CMU in the govt. they basically told you that whatever process you were following was one that they did not approve of and wanted you to follow their correct protocol.

so you get upset that we called you out on this. RL, we are not fools. the public forum will always find the truth one way or another. just look at what happened to d rather from cbs. the public forum quickly got to the bottom of the forged bush national guard documents. this is what makes the internet wonderful. you hate public forums like this because you cant spin our questions and all your "shady" documents will be taken apart with a fine comb very easily here exposing your "school."

so you promise the other day to show us a "special" document to prove us all wrong about the charter. naturally you return on the other thread and make up an excuse (lots of meeting today, didnt get time to scan the thing, etc). a few minutes later on this thread, you claim that you will no longer answer ANY charter questions.

well mr. rl, you really shouldnt be on VMD as a school official because all you want to do on here is promote your school. you WILL NOT answer ANY serious questions about your school's important issues pertaining to the career's of all your potential students. i think its a pity, and i think you should resign the "school official" title from your username.

you really dont care to answer any questions about your school that you dont "approve" of because they will clearly show the MAJOR deficiencies of the place.

one question, when did you start thinking that we all had IQ's of 50?

disclaimer- this is all my opinion on the recent charter events (or lack there of)
Precisely, howbeit sad.
Trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, but not counting on the intense scrutiny of medical students.

[ind3r]

Lol I think he's gonna be conferring w/ his lawyers a lot down the road =O.

[eastern2western]

Now, we will never get any answers from this man ever again.

[Genossa maximillian]

If this school ever produces a charter, will you guys keep ripping on him, and for what reason?

This said, I am old enough (older than most hot shots that post in these forums) to remember when the big 3 opened back in 1978. They were laughing stocks to the mainstream medical community. Look at them now ( well Ross still has folks ripping it). This said, and using todays events, technology and recent development with some schools that have opened in recent years, I am almost convinced that if the internet would have been around in 1978 none of the big 3 would be in existense today. I mean, using the same quality of ripping and speculation, and believe me, ther was some speculation back then, they would have not stood a good chance. Most of you were not even born then. Even after almost 30 years in business the image of Caribbean medical schools is tarnished (yes more schools popping up than drug stores in Ciudad Juarez mainstreet) that does not help. Some things never change I guess, and when they do, it is not necessarily for the best.

That these forums allow more scrutinity, true, no doubt. To what extent are we using these tools in a positive and constructive way? That is the big question.

If the school has used the wrong marketing in their website, and If anyone believes it's a scam (which I insist is a serious accusation that will require a substantial burned of proof and can sometimes backfire on the acuser), log your complaints with the appropiate authorities if you have standing. Very simple. Has anyone done that? I don't mean to ddefend anyone here (I am trying to be balanced, leaving my emotions out of the argument), we are masters of our own dominions and owners of what we say and do.

Let's see if the charter is granted. Be patient guys and gals. Be patient.

[Scott1981]

If this school ever produces a charter, will you guys keep ripping on him, and for what reason?

This said, I am old enough (older than most hot shots that post in these forums) to remember when the big 3 opened back in 1978. They were laughing stocks to the mainstream medical community. Look at them now ( well Ross still has folks ripping it). This said, and using todays events, technology and recent development with some schools that have opened in recent years, I am almost convinced that if the internet would have been around in 1978 none of the big 3 would be in existense today. I mean, using the same quality of ripping and speculation, and believe me, ther was some speculation back then, they would have not stood a good chance. Most of you were not even born then. Even after almost 30 years in business the image of Caribbean medical schools is tarnished (yes more schools popping up than drug stores in Ciudad Juarez mainstreet) that does not help. Some things never change I guess, and when they do, it is not necessarily for the best.

That these forums allow more scrutinity, true, no doubt. To what extent are we using these tools in a positive and constructive way? That is the big question.

If the school has used the wrong marketing in their website, and If anyone believes it's a scam (which I insist is a serious accusation that will require a substantial burned of proof and can sometimes backfire on the acuser), log your complaints with the appropiate authorities if you have standing. Very simple. Has anyone done that? I don't mean to ddefend anyone here (I am trying to be balanced, leaving my emotions out of the argument), we are masters of our own dominions and owners of what we say and do.

Let's see if the charter is granted. Be patient guys and gals. Be patient.

your whole argument is flawed. might i direct you to AUA whose birth was watched here on valuemd. go ahead, do a search. you will find the scrutiny.

do a search in their forum with my username when they just opened up. you will see me calling them out on a lot of things. valuemd uncovered a lot of their shady business practices.

you want to know what? THEY CHANGED AND STARTED DOING EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK. they now have NY approval and will probably be applying to cali in a few years.

the problem is that CMU consistently thinks we are all stupid and tries to pull fast ones over us even when it is so obvious that its fake.

MAX, you see AUA is a perfect example to counter your whole argument. heck, even IAU had a little scrutiny on here at first. MUA-belize still does have scrutiny, but not that much. you want to know why? its because they have a charter and it is theoretically possible for their graduates to become physicians in the US. that its obviously not the case with cmu at this current juncture.

why you have such a hard time seeing this is unknown. the only other school that was in a simiar situation with the charter was st chris. we all know what happened there.

on another post, you showed us that st chris is now in IMED. pardon my lack of enthusiasm. tell that to the loads of st chris students that lost their money, now have tons of legal fees, and had to transfer back in the day. want to know why? senegal refused to produce a charter for this school!!!!!

the current st chris now is in IMED which is the link you gave earlier. have you no recollection of the original st chris? the original st chris was the one run by PL who made the same mistake that RL is making by thinking that we all are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

max, i would seriously re-evaluate you position. all of your arguments are flawed, hopefully you can see why from my post.

[Genossa maximillian]

You are missing my whole point...are we using this forum in a constructive way or not? The way I have seen so many infractions, warings, insults etc. I am inclined to believe it is not. I beg your pardon, I am not trying to prove if my argment is flawed or not, that is irrelevant for me, I am voicing out my opinion regarding the level of immaturity and unprofesionalism and the series of serious ascusations of fraud and scam by most of the people posting here and am asking if ANYONE has an issue with this school and has standing, take it to the appropiate authorities, I mean, so many acusations of scam, fraud, etc. Dont' you agree ? If you or anyone are so worried about the school, and have any kind of standing, take them to court, report them to the adequate authorities that might have any kind of jurisdiction on it and see what happens.

You missed my last parragraph and got too distracted dissecting my statement for flaws? I don't blame you. Speaking of flawed arguments, answer a straing question....do you have a case against them? Do you have standing? Have you considered filing any kind of complaint against them? FCC, FTC, USPS, Government of Curacao? Netherland Antilles? They are the people you should air your grievance because last time I checked VMD does not get to decide these issues.

My question remains Scott, what will happen if they get the charter? What will be the new reason to rip on it? AUA did not changed because of you, nice try sir, reminds me of Al Gore claiming to invent the internet.





your whole argument is flawed. might i direct you to AUA whose birth was watched here on valuemd. go ahead, do a search. you will find the scrutiny.

do a search in their forum with my username when they just opened up. you will see me calling them out on a lot of things. valuemd uncovered a lot of their shady business practices.

you want to know what? THEY CHANGED AND STARTED DOING EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK. they now have NY approval and will probably be applying to cali in a few years.

the problem is that CMU consistently thinks we are all stupid and tries to pull fast ones over us even when it is so obvious that its fake.

MAX, you see AUA is a perfect example to counter your whole argument. heck, even IAU had a little scrutiny on here at first. MUA-belize still does have scrutiny, but not that much. you want to know why? its because they have a charter and it is theoretically possible for their graduates to become physicians in the US. that its obviously not the case with cmu at this current juncture.

why you have such a hard time seeing this is unknown. the only other school that was in a simial situation with the charter was st chris. we all know what happened there.

on another post, you showed us that st chris is now in IMED. whoopy dooo. tell that to the loads of st chris students that lost their money, now have tons of legal fees, and had to transfer back in the day. want to know why? senegal refused to produce a charter for this school!!!!!

the current st chris now is in IMED which is the link you gave earlier. have you no recollection of the original st chris? the original st chris was the one run by PL who made the same mistake that RL is making by thinking that we all are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

max, i would seriously re-evaluate you position. all of your arguments are flawed, hopefully you can see why from my post.

[Scott1981]

My question is simple Scott, what will happen if they get the charter? Waht will be the new reason to rip on it? AUA did not changed because of you, nice try sir, reminds me of Al Gore claiming to invent the internet.

fair enough. collectively as a whole, this forum is working because somebody must be reporting them to the state authorities, hence this is why oregon just added them to their misdemeanor list.

as for as AUA, i never said it was me alone who caused them to change. however, i can say i was part of the reason they changed. the constant battles about AUA claiming they can place students in cali rotations where rampant on that forum. i had arguements with AUA officials and even posted an email i had with an AUA official while i posed as a potential california student. i forwarded that email to pat park, who then made frequent visits to the AUA forum to confront them. i am sure i was not the only one who emailed info to the cali med board.

AUA's twinning program. i didnt get involved in this argument too much regarding federal student aid. however, i know many who did that started contacting the DOE.

im not taking credit for anything, VMD takes all the credit. it allowed the scrutiny to make the proper authorities aware of the situation. AUA then completely changed their tactics.

so, im sorry you misinterpreted my previous post as me personally taking credit for AUA's reversal. come on, lets be real. AUA and VMD should be the only one who should take credit. VMD was the forum that showed AUA that going by the book was the only way to go because people will go to the authorities. i commend AUA on their improvements.

as soon as CMU gets a charter, believe it or not, most of the arguments will go away and the risk of this school will be the same as all the other startups providing they get REAL rotations and can confirm them with concrete hospital affiliations.

all we ask for on vmd is that they have the bare minimum assets that all other startups have. out in the open hospital affiliations and a charter. once they get those (which they lack), the whole website plagiarism will eventually fade into the past if the school progresses without any other signs of deceit just like AUA did.

[Genossa maximillian]

I remember AUA and the twinning program and the DOE, even I argued with Sree about it.

I do know the Oregon guy hangs around silently on these forums. I am not very fond to the way he does business, Oregon tends to use anything posted in any sort of media to list a school in their site, but when you have a lay person running things, you can't make 100% of the people happy. At least California and New York has a system implemented site visits, etc. Oregon is a different ball game (I am not saying they don't do a good job, but sometimes they cross the line), all bets are off with them. Different subject anyway.

How about Xavier? Do you remember their status? Didn't they had more or less the same issues in the beginning with their charter because they were not IMED listed or was it for WHO? I can't remember very well.

Max





fair enough. collectively as a whole, this forum is working because somebody must be reporting them to the state authorities, hence this is why oregon just added them to their misdemeanor list.

as for as AUA, i never said it was me alone who caused them to change. however, i can say i was part of the reason they changed. the constant battles about AUA claiming they can place students in cali rotations where rampant on that forum. i had arguemtns with AUA officials and even posted an email i had with an AUA official while i posed as a potential california student. i forwarded that email to pat park, who then made frequent visits to the AUA forum to confront them. i am sure i was not the only one who emailed info to the cali med board.

AUA's twinning program. i didnt get involved in this argument too much regarding federal student aid. however, i know many who did that started contacting the DOE.

im not taking credit for anything, VMD takes all the credit. it allowed the scrutiny to make the proper authorities aware of the situation. AUA then completely changed there tactics.

so, im sorry you misinterpreted my previous post as me personally taking credit for AUA's reversal. come on, lets be real. AUA and VMD should be the only one who should take credit. VMD was the forum that showed AUA that going by the book was the only way to go because people will go to the authorities. i commend AUA on their improvements.

as soon as CMU gets a charter, believe it or not, most of the arguments will go away and the risk of this school will be the same as all the other startups providing they get REAL rotations and can confirm them with concrete hospital affiliations.

all we ask for on vmd is that they have the bare minimum assets that all other startups have. out in the open hospital affiliations and a charter. once they get those (which they lack), the whole website plagiarism will eventually fade into the past if the school progresses without any other signs of deceit just like AUA did.

[Scott1981]

your whole argument is flawed. might i direct you to AUA whose birth was watched here on valuemd. go ahead, do a search. you will find the scrutiny.

do a search in their forum with my username when they just opened up. you will see me calling them out on a lot of things. valuemd uncovered a lot of their shady business practices.

you want to know what? THEY CHANGED AND STARTED DOING EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK. they now have NY approval and will probably be applying to cali in a few years.



max, where did you think that i personally took credit for AUA changing their tactics? i just stated that i took part in calling them out. i really gave credit to VMD.

lets continue to stay withing TOS, even though your quote about me reminding you of al gore doesnt really bother me because i didnt take any personal credit for the AUA reversal, a moderator might consider that flaming. its ok though.

[Scott1981]

I remember AUA and the twinning program and the DOE, even I argued with Sree about it. Very well, thanks for your reply.

How about Xavier? Do you remember their status? Didn't they had more or less the same issues in the beginning with their charter because they were not IMED listed or was it for WHO? I can't remember very well.

Max

its all good, at least we are staying constructive with our arguments. :D

xavier had people calling them out as well. to be perfectly honest, i didnt really get into their forum. you have to admit that cmu has gotten the attention of everyone with the "documents" that they posted, the lack of the charter, the "preceptors", and the school admin figuratively telling me that i dont have common sense. it kind of strikes a nerve with many.

[Genossa maximillian]

....must be a democrat moderator ;)



max, where did you think that i personally took credit for AUA changing their tactics? i just stated that i took part in calling them out. i really gave credit to VMD.

lets continue to stay withing TOS, even though your quote about me reminding you of al gore doesnt really bother me because i didnt take any personal credit for the AUA reversal, a moderator might consider that flaming. its ok though.

[Genossa maximillian]

it will be nice if they can post the charter....once they get it, that will be commonsense. I will be patient awaiting for it and see what happens next. I wish them and their students luck, you can't never have enough of it.

Good day

Max

its all good, at least we are staying constructive with our arguments. :D

xavier had people calling them out as well. to be perfectly honest, i didnt really get into their forum. you have to admit that cmu has gotten the attention of everyone with the "documents" that they posted, the lack of the charter, the "preceptors", and the school admin figuratively telling me that i dont have common sense. it kind of strikes a nerve with many.

[MYMD]

I remember AUA and the twinning program and the DOE, even I argued with Sree about it.

I do know the Oregon guy hangs around silently on these forums. I am not very fond to the way he does business, Oregon tends to use anything posted in any sort of media to list a school in their site, but when you have a lay person running things, you can't make 100% of the people happy. At least California and New York has a system implemented site visits, etc. Oregon is a different ball game (I am not saying they don't do a good job, but sometimes they cross the line), all bets are off with them. Different subject anyway.

How about Xavier? Do you remember their status? Didn't they had more or less the same issues in the beginning with their charter because they were not IMED listed or was it for WHO? I can't remember very well.

Max

I have a lot of open questions as well, since they have 3 schools now on different islands the Charter issue has never been really clear, yet not one of these posters seem to be on the X forum ripping into the inconsistencies there,

There are numerous other schools, I think the Big reason there are these people are two fold

One, RL answering
Two, some may not be who the seem to be.

No defense of CMU of course, they should be scrutinized as any other school. But it does seem to be a crusade going on, and there will be students attending this school while it is in existence, I see the internet Basic Sci schools are still open and running normal too........

[dt]

I think the inconsistencies here are too obvious and that may be why more people are here.

For example, the main reason given for the delay was that the monopoly of medical education in Curacao had to be broken. This means to me that St. Martinus was the only school on the island that had the right to provide medical education.

However CMU's RL also claim that CIU can provide the medical education. If CIU were also given the right to provide medical education, then was there really a monopoly as claimed?

This past Tuesday, Sept 4th, was the day the president of CMU said he would show us the permit (or charter, or some document) that allowed CIU (and thus CMU) to provide medical education. Did that happen? No. I didnt see anything.


Another example is the August 10th deadline (seen in another thread).

Other examples include claims of clinical sites that are inconsistent or non-existent, and plagarizing of other schools' website.



So, what does this type of behaviour of CMU tell people?

[studentdoctobe]

You are missing my whole point...are we using this forum in a constructive way or not? The way I have seen so many infractions, warings, insults etc. I am inclined to believe it is not. I beg your pardon, I am not trying to prove if my argment is flawed or not, that is irrelevant for me, I am voicing out my opinion regarding the level of immaturity and unprofesionalism .Well actually how long did it take you yesterday to resort to gambling propositions, did you really think that was mature?.


and the series of serious ascusations of fraud and scam by most of the people posting here and am asking if ANYONE has an issue with this school and has standing, take it to the appropiate authorities, I mean, so many acusations of scam, fraud, etc. Dont' you agree ? If you or anyone are so worried about the school, and have any kind of standing, take them to court, report them to the adequate authorities that might have any kind of jurisdiction on it and see what happens.
It is what it is, it does not take much to tell a scam when you see one, and just by pointing it out does not mean that anyone is out to get anyone.

Let me understand your "take them to court comment".
Are you proposing that students here spend their own valuable time and money running around from one court room to another with someone who has shown to be as elusive as they want to be, that right there just shows that you do not fully understand what VMD is all about.

This is not a place to originate court cases from, RL showed up here to showcase CMU to the world, and this being a forum, we looked, we saw, we commented, that is what a forum is about.

I'm sure there is a time and place for legal steps, just as students of st. Chris have shown, many of them have taken the legal route and for CMU, who knows, all it takes is one or two students who have lost money and time to be motivated enough to go to court, time will tell.


You missed my last parragraph and got too distracted dissecting my statement for flaws? I don't blame you. Speaking of flawed arguments, answer a straing question....do you have a case against them? Do you have standing? Have you considered filing any kind of complaint against them? FCC, FTC, USPS, Government of Curacao? Netherland Antilles? They are the people you should air your grievance because last time I checked VMD does not get to decide these issues.

My question remains Scott, what will happen if they get the charter? What will be the new reason to rip on it? AUA did not changed because of you, nice try sir, reminds me of Al Gore claiming to invent the internet.
I have one question for you (and as you would say "HOSS"), in ALL your time here, and I quote you as saying "I am old enough (older than most hot shots that post in these forums) to remember when the big 3 opened back in 1978." and all the changes you MUST have witnessed, it would really help to draw our attention to any court cases involving all these schools that started way back and all the scrutiny they went through especially any case that YOU POSITIVELY CONTRIBUTED TO THE RESOLUTION THAT FOLLOWED.

I don't even understand the comparison between what happened in 1978 and what is happening in 2007.

For obvious reasons, anyone should know that they cannot realistically expect to get away with anything today that someone else might have gotten away with in 1978. And that cuts across the board with ANYTHING.

[dt]

...

I don't even understand the comparison between what happened in 1978 and what is happening in 2007.

For obvious reasons, anyone should know that they cannot realistically expect to get away with anything today that someone else might have gotten away with in 1978. And that cuts across the board with ANYTHING.


Yup, times, they are a'changing...

[Scott1981]

I have a lot of open questions as well, since they have 3 schools now on different islands the Charter issue has never been really clear, yet not one of these posters seem to be on the X forum ripping into the inconsistencies there,

There are numerous other schools, I think the Big reason there are these people are two fold

One, RL answering
Two, some may not be who the seem to be.

No defense of CMU of course, they should be scrutinized as any other school. But it does seem to be a crusade going on, and there will be students attending this school while it is in existence, I see the internet Basic Sci schools are still open and running normal too........

well, personally i would not set foot near xavier either.

however, i should point out that they have separate imed listings for bonaire and aruba. that is more than cmu has to show.

the school in panama is "claiming" to have an affiliation with a domicile panama med school that is located in imed. too much uncertainty and we dont have written documentation of this affiliation. the one thing that brings this third school over cmu is that they are at least claiming affiliation to a fully functional medical school.

i know xavier had problems in the past with their charter. i also remember reading a lot of scrutiny on their website back in the day. however, all three branches still have more to show than cmu even though i would never recommend anyone to attend any of them.

ps- cmu is not alone with the scrutiny. i just checked out MUA-belize forum and they have their share of vmd investigating going on.

as far as some of us being "agents" of other schools. that is possible for the newly created accounts that make one or two posts.

however, the vast majority of us are not agents and its pretty clear what we do. there is no misrepresentation with myself, teratos, soe, stephew, finishingfifth, rok, emt, dru, sree, shikima, emt, aucmd, img survivor, anencephalic, docplucinski, etc (im sure im missing some).

[MYMD]

well, personally i would not set foot near xavier either.

however, i should point out that they have separate imed listings for bonaire and aruba. that is more than cmu has to show.

the school in panama is "claiming" to have an affiliation with a domicile panama med school that is located in imed. too much uncertainty and we dont have written documentation of this affiliation. the one thing that brings this third school over cmu is that they are at least claiming affiliation to a fully functional medical school.

i know xavier had problems in the past with their charter. i also remember reading a lot of scrutiny on their website back in the day. however, all three branches still have more to show than cmu even though i would never recommend anyone to attend any of them.

ps- cmu is not alone with the scrutiny. i just checked out MUA-belize forum and they have their share of vmd investigating going on.

as far as some of us being "agents" of other schools. that is possible for the newly created accounts that make one or two posts.

however, the vast majority of us are not agents and its pretty clear what we do. there is no misrepresentation with myself, teratos, soe, stephew, finishingfifth, rok, emt, dru, sree, shikima, emt, aucmd, img survivor, anencephalic, docplucinski, etc (im sure im missing some).

Yea I was not singling any one person, I read this forum for updates on the new school, I do think SCRUTINY is good we learn from it and schools like SJSM and Xavier have shown to have many problems but they have charters too.

Even Windsor has one.

It is a valid point and a school has to be listed with IMED for US practice.

And the ones you listed, I have read their posts for years I almost feel I know them LOL

[dt]

Even Windsor has one.


Now that's a zinger...

:p

[Scott1981]

Yea I was not singling any one person, I read this forum for updates on the new school, I do think SCRUTINY is good we learn from it and schools like SJSM and Xavier have shown to have many problems but they have charters too.

Even Windsor has one.

It is a valid point and a school has to be listed with IMED for US practice.

And the ones you listed, I have read their posts for years I almost feel I know them LOL

i completely agree :cool:

[studentdoctobe]

My bigest irk with this whole CMU stuff is the sheer lack of regard for the LAWS, RULES AND REGULATIONS of the governing body of the practice of MEDICINE IN THE US, by one or a set of individuals who feel that they could be so above scrutiny that they can basically serve up anything on a public forum and demand that readers accept it, and when challenged they get defensive rather than presenting facts to quiet the challengers.

There is absolutely nothing wrong about WAITING till you have all your ducks in a row before startng a MEDICAL school.

In addition to that, a preference to just run their game, however shady it may appear, and be completely evasive to serious and critical issues surrounding their practices, while all this time targeting naive and desperate students who really must not have other options or may be more trusting of the whole "we will have it tomorrow" game.

This is the US and this is 2007, and IT WILL NOT FLY.

[Scott1981]

this is interesting. what do the following CARIBBEAN schools have in common?

seoul central college of medicine (monsteratt)
university of science arts and technology (monsteratt)
kingstown medical college (st vincent)
university of west indies cave hill barbados (barbados)
milik university (st kitts)
st theresas (st kitts)
grace university (st kitts)
windsor univerity (st kitts)
IUHS (st kitts)***internet school*** :lol:
UHSA (antigua) *** same as above*** :lol:
st marys (st lucia)
college of medicine and health sciences (st lucia)
american global university (belize)
mua-belize (belize)
central american health sciences university (belize)
grace university (belize)
hope university (belize)
intraamerican university (belize)
st lukes university (belize)

answer...... they all are listed in IMED of course :lol:

now some of these are defunct, but they were still listed so they had charters (whether they bought them or not :lol:)

here is the kicker..... st matthews is listed for both belize and grand caymen. i know they moved from belize originally.... but heck...... they didnt have a problem getting listed in IMED for a second time :lol:.

man, i school must really not have their stuff in order to not get IMED listing. i havent even heard of half of those schools listed and they are one step ahead of CMU.

[MYMD]

this is interesting. what do the following CARIBBEAN schools have in common?

seoul central college of medicine (monsteratt)
university of science arts and technology (monsteratt)
kingstown medical college (st vincent)
university of west indies cave hill barbados (barbados)
milik university (st kitts)
st theresas (st kitts)
grace university (st kitts)
windsor univerity (st kitts)
IUHS (st kitts)***internet school*** :lol:
UHSA (antigua) *** same as above*** :lol:
st marys (st lucia)
college of medicine and health sciences (st lucia)
american global university (belize)
mua-belize (belize)
central american health sciences university (belize)
grace university (belize)
hope university (belize)
intraamerican university (belize)
st lukes university (belize)

answer...... they all are listed in IMED of course :lol:

now some of these are defunct, but they were still listed so they had charters (whether they bought them or not :lol:)

here is the kicker..... st matthews is listed for both belize and grand caymen. i know they moved from belize originally.... but heck...... they didnt have a problem getting listed in IMED for a second time :lol:.

man, i school must really not have their stuff in order to not get IMED listing. i havent even heard of half of those schools listed and they are one step ahead of CMU.

Oh my look at how many are on Kitts and Belize! Oh MY some are known as the ones NOT TO ATTEND for sure, even with the charter.

[Genossa maximillian]

Now that you mention it, yes the basic sciences internet schools are still around and have had their fair share of ripping, check the IUHS forum alone, wow! The HUGE difference though, is that they have charters, the core issue with CMU. That many people thought they could bring them down ripping them in the forum, no, it has not happened.


I have a lot of open questions as well, since they have 3 schools now on different islands the Charter issue has never been really clear, yet not one of these posters seem to be on the X forum ripping into the inconsistencies there,

There are numerous other schools, I think the Big reason there are these people are two fold

One, RL answering
Two, some may not be who the seem to be.

No defense of CMU of course, they should be scrutinized as any other school. But it does seem to be a crusade going on, and there will be students attending this school while it is in existence, I see the internet Basic Sci schools are still open and running normal too........

[Genossa maximillian]

The comparison I am making is if the internet would have been around at this same level back in 1978 what fair chances the Big 3 would have had to survive with the intensity of attacks new schools must endure today. My point is, it would have been the same, may they would not even made it at this level of attacks (notice I said maybe). What we see is people ripping these folks constantly over and over the same thing. I have suggested to wait and see if the charter is produced. My suggestions on legal options should be considered to those who think or believe have been agravated by CMU opening a school and believe or think they are a fraud (they might be or not, at prima facie, you can't tell, I can't tell, how can you say it's a scam, any hard hitting evidence? because that my friend is a serious accusation) take it the appropiate channels. I don't believe there is anything wrong with suggesting that to the same degree you don't believe that there is anything wrong in constantly ripping them.

One thing is sure I won't convince you of my methods you won't convince me of yours.





Well actually how long did it take you yesterday to resort to gambling propositions, did you really think that was mature?.



It is what it is, it does not take much to tell a scam when you see one, and just by pointing it out does not mean that anyone is out to get anyone.

Let me understand your "take them to court comment".
Are you proposing that students here spend their own valuable time and money running around from one court room to another with someone who has shown to be as elusive as they want to be, that right there just shows that you do not fully understand what VMD is all about.

This is not a place to originate court cases from, RL showed up here to showcase CMU to the world, and this being a forum, we looked, we saw, we commented, that is what a forum is about.

I'm sure there is a time and place for legal steps, just as students of st. Chris have shown, many of them have taken the legal route and for CMU, who knows, all it takes is one or two students who have lost money and time to be motivated enough to go to court, time will tell.


I have one question for you (and as you would say "HOSS"), in ALL your time here, and I quote you as saying "I am old enough (older than most hot shots that post in these forums) to remember when the big 3 opened back in 1978." and all the changes you MUST have witnessed, it would really help to draw our attention to any court cases involving all these schools that started way back and all the scrutiny they went through especially any case that YOU POSITIVELY CONTRIBUTED TO THE RESOLUTION THAT FOLLOWED.

I don't even understand the comparison between what happened in 1978 and what is happening in 2007.

For obvious reasons, anyone should know that they cannot realistically expect to get away with anything today that someone else might have gotten away with in 1978. And that cuts across the board with ANYTHING.

[Genossa maximillian]

Good point, however, they are bound by the rules , laws and governing body of Curacao. Why did Curacao allowed them to begin operations without a charter? It sounds to me more like there was loophole and they took advantage of it, if their laws allowed it, no harms done in Curacao, and strictly from a Cuaracao point of view. Now whatever rules, laws etc. they may not be in complaince with in the U.S. , that is another story,and much more complex issue. That normally comes to bite you at licensing time, and you figure out you can't get licensed. You say this is the U.S. and won't fly...I heard that with IUHS and they are still around and a few of their grads are already licensed in the U.S., I would not hold my breathe to that thought. There is always a possibility in the great land of opportunities ;)


My bigest irk with this whole CMU stuff is the sheer lack of regard for the LAWS, RULES AND REGULATIONS of the governing body of the practice of MEDICINE IN THE US, by one or a set of individuals who feel that they could be so above scrutiny that they can basically serve up anything on a public forum and demand that readers accept it, and when challenged they get defensive rather than presenting facts to quiet the challengers.

There is absolutely nothing wrong about WAITING till you have all your ducks in a row before startng a MEDICAL school.

In addition to that, a preference to just run their game, however shady it may appear, and be completely evasive to serious and critical issues surrounding their practices, while all this time targeting naive and desperate students who really must not have other options or may be more trusting of the whole "we will have it tomorrow" game.

This is the US and this is 2007, and IT WILL NOT FLY.

[MYMD]

Good point, however, they are bound by the rules , laws and governing body of Curacao. Why did Curacao allowed them to begin operations without a charter? It sounds to me more like there was loophole and they took advantage of it, if their laws allowed it, no harms done in Curacao, and strictly from a Cuaracao point of view. Now whatever rules, laws etc. they may not be in complaince with in the U.S. , that is another story,and much more complex issue. That normally comes to bite you at licensing time, and you figure out you can't get licensed. You say this is the U.S. and won't fly...I heard that with IUHS and they are still around and a few of their grads are already licensed in the U.S., I would not hold my breathe to that thought. There is always a possibility in the great land of opportunities ;)

Well Loopholes, we all know what happened to SC and loopholes............The more these loopholes get exposed the more they are closed it seems.

Even the Grandfather clause for Student loans, if the Big 3 could get 60% of the natives to attend then it would not be a problem but You and I know that clause was directed to any of these schools, to close the door on schools aimed at American students and operate outside of the USA................ IMO a very unfair rule too.

[Genossa maximillian]

I agree. From a business perspective, someone may use any available loophole to start operations and might be legally entitled to do so. Now, is it in the best interest of their customers? NOT necessarily as the St. Chris case taught us. Good point.


Well Loopholes, we all know what happened to SC and loopholes............

[Genossa maximillian]

That was a big stinker and bummer, the Student Loan grandfather clause, granted some schools didn't deserve it but there was a system implemented to deal with cheating schools. Speaking of loopholes, how about the CAAM, they grant temporary accrediation to a school that is yet to be opened in Montserrat, the school does not even have a charter from Montserrat yet, not evena tent, it is not IMED listed and to the school that is operating at a small scale, and has IMED listed and a charter they did not wanted to grant temporary accrediation "AT THIS TIME" and made them appeal the decision. How about that for loopholes and weird things?


Well Loopholes, we all know what happened to SC and loopholes............The more these loopholes get exposed the more they are closed it seems.

Even the Grandfather clause for Student loans, if the Big 3 could get 60% of the natives to attend then it would not be a problem but You and I know that clause was directed to any of these schools, to close the door on schools aimed at American students and operate outside of the USA................ IMO a very unfair rule too.

[MYMD]

That was a big stinker and bummer, the Student Loan grandfather clause, granted some schools didn't deserve it but there was a system implemented to deal with cheating schools. Speaking of loopholes, how about the CAAM, they grant temporary accrediation to a school that is yet to be opened in Montserrat, the school does not even have a charter from Montserrat yet, not evena tent, it is not IMED listed and to the school that is operating at a small scale, and has IMED listed and a charter they did not wanted to grant temporary accrediation "AT THIS TIME" and made them appeal the decision. How about that for loopholes and weird things?
Yes I agree

I really disagree with the Feds and the Student loans, I think it should be like in CANADA, something they do right LOL

(heck in some circular way it's "OUR MONEY" the feds keep from us at these schools)

[dt]

CMU has nothing to discuss in this or any public forum and all inquiries pertaining CMU and it's operational-governmental issues should be addressed to CMU's legal counsel and they will attend your inquiry in due time.


Please provide more info on your legal counsel.

Is it in Curacao?

What is the contact info? A website perhaps? A link?

[Scott1981]

Please provide more info on your legal counsel.

Is it in Curacao?

What is the contact info? A website perhaps? A link?

i give you credit for trying :lol:

[studentdoctobe]

The comparison I am making is if the internet would have been around at this same level back in 1978 what fair chances the Big 3 would have had to survive with the intensity of attacks new schools must endure today. My point is, it would have been the same, may they would not even made it at this level of attacks (notice I said maybe). What we see is people ripping these folks constantly over and over the same thing. I have suggested to wait and see if the charter is produced. My suggestions on legal options should be considered to those who think or believe have been agravated by CMU opening a school and believe or think they are a fraud (they might be or not, at prima facie, you can't tell, I can't tell, how can you say it's a scam, any hard hitting evidence? because that my friend is a serious accusation) take it the appropiate channels. I don't believe there is anything wrong with suggesting that to the same degree you don't believe that there is anything wrong in constantly ripping them.

One thing is sure Hoss (character from the TV series Bonanza, used in some parts of Texas in lieu of buddy) I won't convince you of my methods you won't convince me of yours.
Just so we are clear on one thing, you can either address me with my name or initials, IT IS NOT OK BY ME FOR YOU TO COME UP WITH WHATEVER NAME YOU WANT FOR YOUR OWN PURPOSES, I CAN THINK OF A NAME OR TWO FOR YOU AS WELL, BUT BECAUSE OF TOS WE ALL CHOOSE NOT TO CALL NAMES, SO LET'S KEEP IT ON THE REAL NAME BASIS ONLY!!!

ANY FURTHER REFERENCE TO ME WITH ANY NAME OTHER THAN MY NAME OR INITIALS WILL BE VIEWED AS AN INSULT.
AFTERALL WE ARE NOT BUDDIES NOW ARE WE?

[Scott1981]

lets keep this thread within TOS. you all know this forum is under strict moderation so its not worth escalating anything to get warnings and or bans.

[studentdoctobe]

Good point, however, they are bound by the rules , laws and governing body of Curacao. Why did Curacao allowed them to begin operations without a charter? It sounds to me more like there was loophole and they took advantage of it, if their laws allowed it, no harms done in Curacao, and strictly from a Cuaracao point of view.I would have been keen to tackle that right there, but unfortunately CMU is soliciting students from the US and promising a chance to practice in US, so we cannot afford to overlook the aspects of the practice that relates TO THE USA.

If he were ONLY teaching students for Curacao Medical practice, I don't think it would have registered on anyone's radar if they have books to teach with or not.

Now whatever rules, laws etc. they may not be in complaince with in the U.S. , that is another story,and much more complex issue. Oh but that IS THE MAIN ISSUE AND THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS ENTIRE DIALOGUE ON CMU FORUM.
And no it is not complex at all, because a school either has a charter or they don't, they either have a right to confer MEDICAL degrees or they don't, it's really very simple. And CMU DOES NOT.

That normally comes to bite you at licensing time, and you figure out you can't get licensed. You say this is the U.S. and won't fly...I heard that with IUHS and they are still around and a few of their grads are already licensed in the U.S., I would not hold my breathe to that thought. There is always a possibility in the great land of opportunities ;)
That's a good one, spend 4 years and over 100k, AND THEN FIGURE OUT IF YOU CAN GET LICENSED OR NOT.

Just out of curiosity, what have you heard recently about St. Chris grads.

[MYMD]

Just to add this....... ANy school that follows the rules:
CHarter, IMED, ECFMG cert, a student from that school should be able to get a full License to practice in a State in the US. Really we can argue till the cows come home but the fact is once a residency is done and the ECFMG will cert the Doc then there are states who will License.

[studentdoctobe]

The comparison I am making is if the internet would have been around at this same level back in 1978 what fair chances the Big 3 would have had to survive with the intensity of attacks new schools must endure today. My point is, it would have been the same, may they would not even made it at this level of attacks (notice I said maybe). What we see is people ripping these folks constantly over and over the same thing. I have suggested to wait and see if the charter is produced.Well, I can see the point of ripping the issue over and over, however, if you notice, the forum is nice and calm, and out come RL with one post or another or one promise after another to show one document or another, you can see how this can be the aggravating factor.

It's not like people wake up every morning and keep rehashing last week's issues just for the sake of it.

My suggestions on legal options should be considered to those who think or believe have been agravated by CMU opening a school and believe or think they are a fraud (they might be or not, at prima facie, you can't tell, I can't tell, how can you say it's a scam, any hard hitting evidence? because that my friend is a serious accusation) take it the appropiate channels. I don't believe there is anything wrong with suggesting that to the same degree you don't believe that there is anything wrong in constantly ripping them.

One thing is sure Hoss (character from the TV series Bonanza, used in some parts of Texas in lieu of buddy) I won't convince you of my methods you won't convince me of yours.
Any more serious than the issues at hand?

Let's be realistic here, when someone brazenly taken on the task of opening up a medical school and announces it to the world, the least you expect from him is to have crossed his T's and dotted his I's.

There are no "victims" here.

[Genossa maximillian]

apparently this guy forgot some t's and i's ;)...and more serious than getting in trouble for making an accusation that can turn against me and come back and bite me later, nah, you wanna do that, fine, I don't use words such as scam, fraud etc until there is more than enough evidence of malice, etc. I learned the hard way, got sued once,won't go through that twice. This is all speculative at this point.


Well, I can see the point of ripping the issue over and over, however, if you notice, the forum is nice and calm, and out come RL with one post or another or one promise after another to show one document or another, you can see how this can be the aggravating factor.

It's not like people wake up every morning and keep rehashing last week's issues just for the sake of it.


Any more serious than the issues at hand?

Let's be realistic here, when someone brazenly taken on the task of opening up a medical school and announces it to the world, the least you expect from him is to have crossed his T's and dotted his I's.

There are no "victims" here.

[Genossa maximillian]

.. You can ask St. Chris grads about that, not me or go to the St. Chris forum and find by yourself.




I would have been keen to tackle that right there, but unfortunately CMU is soliciting students from the US and promising a chance to practice in US, so we cannot afford to overlook the aspects of the practice that relates TO THE USA.

If he were ONLY teaching students for Curacao Medical practice, I don't think it would have registered on anyone's radar if they have books to teach with or not.

Oh but that IS THE MAIN ISSUE AND THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS ENTIRE DIALOGUE ON CMU FORUM.
And no it is not complex at all, because a school either has a charter or they don't, they either have a right to confer MEDICAL degrees or they don't, it's really very simple. And CMU DOES NOT.


That's a good one, spend 4 years and over 100k, AND THEN FIGURE OUT IF YOU CAN GET LICENSED OR NOT.

Just out of curiosity, what have you heard recently about St. Chris grads.

[Genossa maximillian]

you are right on that one, no buddies.


anJust so we are clear on one thing, you can either address me with my name or initials, IT IS NOT OK BY ME FOR YOU TO COME UP WITH WHATEVER NAME YOU WANT FOR YOUR OWN PURPOSES, I CAN THINK OF A NAME OR TWO FOR YOU AS WELL, BUT BECAUSE OF TOS WE ALL CHOOSE NOT TO CALL NAMES, SO LET'S KEEP IT ON THE REAL NAME BASIS ONLY!!!

ANY FURTHER REFERENCE TO ME WITH ANY NAME OTHER THAN MY NAME OR INITIALS WILL BE VIEWED AS AN INSULT.
AFTERALL WE ARE NOT BUDDIES NOW ARE WE?

[studentdoctobe]

.. You can ask St. Chris grads about that, not me or go to the St. Chris forum and find by yourself.
I actually saw your FIRST post and in reference to THAT, I would say "Imagine his dilemma" to be up against a situation like that.

As for your NEW comment, I chose to ask you since you were the expert, given your background and how well versed you were with most of the schools.

[Genossa maximillian]

St. Chris is a different monster all together. I will rather not even talk about that because there is pending litigation going on there.

I actually saw your FIRST post and in reference to THAT, I would say "Imagine his dilemma" to be up against a situation like that.

As for your NEW comment, I chose to ask you since you were the expert, given your background and how well versed you were with most of the schools.

[studentdoctobe]

St. Chris is a different monster all together. I will rather not even talk about that because there is pending litigation going on there.
Fast forward a few years and it could be a different school :lol:

[Genossa maximillian]

It can go either way. Let's see how this one (CME) develops, I am sure it will be interesting.

Fast forward a few years and it could be a different school :lol:

[dt]

CMU has nothing to discuss in this or any public forum and all inquiries pertaining CMU and it's operational-governmental issues should be addressed to CMU's legal counsel and they will attend your inquiry in due time.


Please provide the contact info for your legal counsel. This is good info to have. A link or website will do.

[eastern2western]

Please provide the contact info for your legal counsel. This is good info to have. A link or website will do.
When u ask doctors for their legal license to practice medicine, do they just show it to you proudly or do they usually referr you to their lawyer? If they actually have a license, they would most like show it to u proudly because that is a symbol of theri years of hard work. If they do not have one and still want to pretend that they are legitimate, then they would most likely play all kind of cheap tricks to confuse u. Now, I am only referring to doctors and I am not implying that my example is related to the current cmu situation.;)

[MYMD]

]When u ask doctors for their legal license to practice medicine, do they just show it to you proudly or do they usually referr you to their lawyer? [/B]................;)

As much as I understand the frustration , this just about 99.9% never comes up when one sees a Doctor, you mean to tell me you ask the DOctor to see the License they have? in my 19 years of RN I have never never seen this done, and only once was my lic asked for to see.

[eastern2western]

I am just using that as a what if example because this forum is under very strict regulations by the moderators. If I use a direct name, I might move myself one infarction closer to getting a bann.

[dt]

Where is the counsel contact info? Only make sense to provide it when you redirect.

[studentdoctobe]

CMU has nothing to discuss in this or any public forum and all inquiries pertaining CMU and it's operational-governmental issues should be addressed to CMU's legal counsel and they will attend your inquiry in due time.
The one thing about throwing out the legal team tactic is that you better use it only ONCE and you better HAVE A LEGAL TEAM FOR A FACT, because that is one threat you should only make ONCE.

Anything short of that, you end up reducing your credibility even lower (if that were possible).

An empty legal threat is worst kind of threat you can make, it always BACKFIRES!

[studentdoctobe]

When u ask doctors for their legal license to practice medicine, do they just show it to you proudly or do they usually referr you to their lawyer? If they actually have a license, they would most like show it to u proudly because that is a symbol of theri years of hard work. If they do not have one and still want to pretend that they are legitimate, then they would most likely play all kind of cheap tricks to confuse u. Now, I am only referring to doctors and I am not implying that my example is related to the current cmu situation.;)
Staying with your theme, I saw this episode of "overseas cosmetic surgeries gone wrong", where a doctor not licensed in the US had a nurse located in the US that would "sell" his skills to potential patients in Florida.

Fast forward to end of episode, Patients were seeking for justice after they were horribly scarred by said doctor.
The anchor of the pitch was an elaborate website and facilities with fancy rooms and ineligible certifications hanging on the walls, and cheaper doctor's fees across the border.

Post surgery, one patient almost died, they bandaged her up and shoved her into the next available plane to the US. Turns out the "doctor" was not even a real doctor.

Moral of it all, in the abscence of proper documentation? RUN!

[MYMD]

I am just using that as a what if example because this forum is under very strict regulations by the moderators. If I use a direct name, I might move myself one infarction closer to getting a bann.
Yea I understand the frustration I was just pointing out something, I guess I'm a little OCD at times Forgive me!:roll:

[eastern2western]

Where is the counsel contact info? Only make sense to provide it when you redirect.
In order for adults to pretend the existence of santa clause, they will intentional produce an elaborate illusion to keep the kids' believe alive.
1) Putting up a massive campaign of advertisement on everything from apples to zebras and even websites. In addition to the campaign, adults can put on a mssive fog of nirvana by showering kids with gifts, food and hypnotizing music
2) When kids want to visit santa clause, adults will tell them that santa lives in far away place and the adults promise them that they will one day go visit santa. However, this promise will never be fulfill because it is just one lie covering another lie.
3) If everything fails, adults would anwer the question with another question.
Q: Does santa exist daddy?
A: Honey, if santa does not exist, then who putted all of your gifts under the tree every christmas morning?
In conclusion, if a person tries to pursuit something that does not exist, the journey will eventually lead to nowhere. I think what I said makes sense, but I must consult my attorney before I might write anymore feces that could cause another infarction. Opps, I guess it is too late.

[studentdoctobe]

In order for adults to pretend the existence of santa clause, they will intentional produce an elaborate illusion to keep the kids' believe alive.
1) Putting up a massive campaign of advertisement on everything from apples to zebras and even websites. In addition to the campaign, adults can put on a mssive fog of nirvana by showering kids with gifts, food and hypnotizing music
2) When kids want to visit santa clause, adults will tell them that santa lives in far away place and the adults promise them that they will one day go visit santa. However, this promise will never be fulfill because it is just one lie covering another lie.
3) If everything fails, adults would anwer the question with another question.
Q: Does santa exist daddy?
A: Honey, if santa does not exist, then who putted all of your gifts under the tree every christmas morning?
In conclusion, if a person tries to pursuit something that does not exist, the journey will eventually lead to nowhere. I think what I said makes sense, but I must consult my attorney before I might write anymore feces that could cause another infarction. Opps, I guess it is too late.

I saw santa last Christmas though.

Wait NO! that was an imposter santa, I noticed his beard was fake and even his belly was stuffed with a pillow.

[Genossa maximillian]

I sent a few emails to the corresponding authorities in Curacao, got one reply, that reply re-directed me to two other agencies, which I followed up upon. They were not as slow as I expected. Nothing much other than "there is an application pending."

Stay tuned!

[studentdoctobe]

I did knew from a good source, when he sold Ross School of medicine that he had a non-competitve clause than would run for a number of years. Obviously those years ran their course and voila! new school. As far as I am aware, they got a pretty good understanding, their students will also be elegible to practice there, which is a big thing many medical boards look at. And yes, they did what CMU has yet to do....get a charter. But come on guys, lets face it, virtually anyone with the required amount of money can get a charter in St. Kitts, thats a no brainer. Ofc ourse being Dr. Ross behind it we know the following: He will make money out of it, and there will be complaints from students like at the good old Ross School. Somethings never change.


..."The University and the degrees that the University confers will be recognized and accepted by the Government, provided that the curriculum conforms to the standards of the Accreditation Board. Recipients of Doctor of Medicine degrees shall be eligible for licensure in respect to the practice of medicine in the St. Kitts and Nevis.
Under the agreement, the Joseph N. France General Hospital and other public health care facilities will be available to the University for the training of physicians for an annual fee.

The University shall continuously provide to citizens of the Federation as recommended by the Government two (2) scholarships tenable at the University. The scholarships shall cover only the cost of tuition, books and equipment."


It would help to actually relate all this to practising in the US though, since that is where lack of charter really matters.

[Genossa maximillian]

...you just replied at was moved to the Main forum under Ross opens new school in St. Kitts. Just to answer your question, some medical boards deny license if the school's graduates are not allowed to practice in the country of charter, and BELIEVE me I know a couple OF schools in that boat, so there you have your correlation.

It would help to actually relate all this to practising in the US though, since that is where lack of charter really matters.

[AUCMD2006]

Good point, however, they are bound by the rules , laws and governing body of Curacao. Why did Curacao allowed them to begin operations without a charter? It sounds to me more like there was loophole and they took advantage of it, if their laws allowed it, no harms done in Curacao, and strictly from a Cuaracao point of view. Now whatever rules, laws etc. they may not be in complaince with in the U.S. , that is another story,and much more complex issue. That normally comes to bite you at licensing time, and you figure out you can't get licensed. You say this is the U.S. and won't fly...I heard that with IUHS and they are still around and a few of their grads are already licensed in the U.S., I would not hold my breathe to that thought. There is always a possibility in the great land of opportunities ;)


actually they did not allow them to start a med school or hold classes. they granted a business license to a registered foundation not a school..i could go to curacao or california right now and start a foundation for the terminally stupid but that does not imply permission from them to admit students and grant medicak degrees

[kemper6036]

Moral of it all, in the abscence of proper documentation? RUN!

i couldnt agree more. any students considering this school need to do a reality check and do whatever they can to get into an accredited and legitimate school.

[Genossa maximillian]

...that's even worse!

actually they did not allow them to start a med school or hold classes. they granted a business license to a registered foundation not a school..i could go to curacao or california right now and start a foundation for the terminally stupid but that does not imply permission from them to admit students and grant medicak degrees

[TonyIvey]

Asking people to talk to your legal team without providing the information of the lawyers is an old trick some people use to be decptive.

[TonyIvey]

I sent a few emails to the corresponding authorities in Curacao, got one reply, that reply re-directed me to two other agencies, which I followed up upon. They were not as slow as I expected. Nothing much other than "there is an application pending."

Stay tuned!

keep up updated if you can.

[Genossa maximillian]

I am updating the information I get from the government of Curacao since everything else will be more of the same...speculation. Here is a copy and paste of an email I got from the office of Inspector-General in Curacao. His initial are R.d.R and carries the title of Inspector-general of Curacao. It was received this morning. Interesting it seems to be that CMU , per the letter of this email, jumped the gun and has been operating without a license. It strikes me that they also use , very loosely the term...."within a few days" which basically translates into at "godspeed" or "whenever we can" . Let's not rush into conclusions and accusations, I am just trying to be a mere objective spectator and critic here, reason why I am posting this. As I see it, as of this precise moment, they do not have a charter (we all know that) nor a license (some of us thought they had one, but no, they don't). If so, they should have not began operations and their marketing should have been postponed to, "opening soon" and not accept a dime until they got at least the license. My .02c of course. Feel free to disagree, after all thats the reason we are here for, isn't it?



"Greetings,

The C.M.U will receive a charter as soon as the island government of Curacao gives a license to operate in Curacao. They are in the process of obtaining one. Hopefully within a few days all the paper work will be finished.
When the CMU has these permits they can operate in the same way as all the other (off-shore) universities in the Netherlands Antilles.

Kindest regards,

********************
Inspector-General "
.replbq{width:100%}






keep up updated if you can.

[eastern2western]

What would be the legal team's reaction to that email?

[DOCplucinski]

I am updating the information I get from the government of Curacao since everything else will be more of the same...speculation. Here is a copy and paste of an email I got from the office of Inspector-General in Curacao. His initial are R.d.R and carries the title of Inspector-general of Curacao. It was received this morning. Interesting it seems to be that CMU , per the letter of this email, jumped the gun and has been operating without a license. It strikes me that they also use , very loosely the term...."within a few days" which basically translates into at "godspeed" or "whenever we can" . Let's not rush into conclusions and accusations, I am just trying to be a mere objective spectator and critic here, reason why I am posting this. As I see it, as of this precise moment, they do not have a charter (we all know that) nor a license (some of us thought they had one, but no, they don't). If so, they should have not began operations and their marketing should have been postponed to, "opening soon" and not accept a dime until they got at least the license. My .02c of course. Feel free to disagree, after all thats the reason we are here for, isn't it?



"Greetings,

The C.M.U will receive a charter as soon as the island government of Curacao gives a license to operate in Curacao. They are in the process of obtaining one. Hopefully within a few days all the paper work will be finished.
When the CMU has these permits they can operate in the same way as all the other (off-shore) universities in the Netherlands Antilles.

Kindest regards,

********************
Inspector-General "
.replbq{width:100%}
you realize RL will come on here and say that yes, we know this but we are affiliated with CIU and for right now, their charter is good enough (even though the charter doesn't say they can grant doctor of medicine degrees)

then we're back to square one...this is never going to end.

[Genossa maximillian]

Docpluc, it's funny because in my original email I specifically asked about the connection with CIU and asked this person if in fact CMU was authorized to operate under that charter to issue medical degrees and the person as you can see did not acknowledged it. As you say, back to square one, sort of because the government is saying CMU MUST get their own license and charter.(my interpretation)


you realize RL will come on here and say that yes, we know this but we are affiliated with CIU and for right now, their charter is good enough (even though the charter doesn't say they can grant doctor of medicine degrees)

then we're back to square one...this is never going to end.

[Genossa maximillian]

they shouldn't have any negative reaction since anyone is entitle to make these inquiries directly with a governmental agency, especially when there is a curtain of speculation and mystery surrounding the whole issue.

surroWhat would be the legal team's reaction to that email?

[eastern2western]

Lets be honest in here guys. I think it is time for us to stop beating a dead horse we all know the problems cmu have and wasting time on the issues over and over again serve absolutely no purpose at all.

[lswiltshire]

Studentdoctobe wrote It would help to actually relate all this to practising in the US though, since that is where lack of charter really matters

Why should we have to relate anything to practising in the US? Many many doctors practice outside the US. In fact most of the doctors in the world practice outside the US. The world does not exist only between Alaska and the Florida Keys. To practice any where in the whole wide world. one has to obtain a degree from a bone fide University (or even a bogus offshore school) that has been granted a charter to operate. This whether one wants to practice in the US or not!


eastern2western wrote

Lets be honest in here guys. I think it is time for us to stop beating a dead horse we all know the problems cmu have and wasting time on the issues over and over again serve absolutely no purpose at all.


I disagree. The anti CMU posts should not be regarded as “beating a dead horse”, nor “wasting time on the issues over and over again”. It does serve a very useful purpose.

There are a few not so very nice people trying to start schools, and have not been completely honest with students, parents, staff or their investors, and a lot of folk have been hurt, and some have lost homes and other valuable posessions.

In the last year alone I taught 11 students who are now suffering because they allowed themselves to be lured into one of these joke schools.

It is vitally important that prospective students and thier relatives be warned very clearly about bad medical schools, or schools that fail to follow established protocols. This nonsense must stop! We can help! We must help! And I am speaking from personal experience!


Many prospective students and thier relatives do not know the ropes like we do, we need to post until problem schools go away. The best time to do this is before they get thier charter. I believe that if a school is dishonest and deceitful to attempt to operate without a charter, that if it ever does get one it will operate worse!



Our parents did not tire of telling us the same thing over and over for our good. So too we must not fail in well doing by alerting the public about bad attempts at starting med schools.

[TonyIvey]

Lets be honest in here guys. I think it is time for us to stop beating a dead horse we all know the problems cmu have and wasting time on the issues over and over again serve absolutely no purpose at all.
You do not have to comment and anyone is free to make their own comments.if you have nothing to comment about then read, if you dont want to read then don't come to vmd.stop whining all over.

[TonyIvey]

Studentdoctobe wrote It would help to actually relate all this to practising in the US though, since that is where lack of charter really matters

Why should we have to relate anything to practising in the US? Many many doctors practice outside the US. In fact most of the doctors in the world practice outside the US. The world does not exist only between Alaska and the Florida Keys. To practice any where in the whole wide world. one has to obtain a degree from a bone fide University (or even a bogus offshore school) that has been granted a charter to operate. This whether one wants to practice in the US or not!


eastern2western wrote

Lets be honest in here guys. I think it is time for us to stop beating a dead horse we all know the problems cmu have and wasting time on the issues over and over again serve absolutely no purpose at all.


I disagree. The anti CMU posts should not be regarded as “beating a dead horse”, nor “wasting time on the issues over and over again”. It does serve a very useful purpose.

There are a few not so very nice people trying to start schools, and have not been completely honest with students, parents, staff or their investors, and a lot of folk have been hurt, and some have lost homes and other valuable posessions.

In the last year alone I taught 11 students who are now suffering because they allowed themselves to be lured into one of these joke schools.

It is vitally important that prospective students and thier relatives be warned very clearly about bad medical schools, or schools that fail to follow established protocols. This nonsense must stop! We can help! We must help! And I am speaking from personal experience!


Many prospective students and thier relatives do not know the ropes like we do, we need to post until problem schools go away. The best time to do this is before they get thier charter. I believe that if a school is dishonest and deceitful to attempt to operate without a charter, that if it ever does get one it will operate worse!



Our parents did not tire of telling us the same thing over and over for our good. So too we must not fail in well doing by alerting the public about bad attempts at starting med schools.
Yes I agree on your points.new information can always be addressed when they come up.

[TonyIvey]

I am updating the information I get from the government of Curacao since everything else will be more of the same...speculation. Here is a copy and paste of an email I got from the office of Inspector-General in Curacao. His initial are R.d.R and carries the title of Inspector-general of Curacao. It was received this morning. Interesting it seems to be that CMU , per the letter of this email, jumped the gun and has been operating without a license. It strikes me that they also use , very loosely the term...."within a few days" which basically translates into at "godspeed" or "whenever we can" . Let's not rush into conclusions and accusations, I am just trying to be a mere objective spectator and critic here, reason why I am posting this. As I see it, as of this precise moment, they do not have a charter (we all know that) nor a license (some of us thought they had one, but no, they don't). If so, they should have not began operations and their marketing should have been postponed to, "opening soon" and not accept a dime until they got at least the license. My .02c of course. Feel free to disagree, after all thats the reason we are here for, isn't it?



"Greetings,

The C.M.U will receive a charter as soon as the island government of Curacao gives a license to operate in Curacao. They are in the process of obtaining one. Hopefully within a few days all the paper work will be finished.
When the CMU has these permits they can operate in the same way as all the other (off-shore) universities in the Netherlands Antilles.

Kindest regards,

********************
Inspector-General "
.replbq{width:100%}
So according to this they don't even have a license.incredible.

[Genossa maximillian]

...according to the email from the Inspector-General they are awaiting for a license to operate in Curacao. I am as amazed as you are because I thought they had at least that a license and not the charter, turns out they don't have neither. Amazing!




So according to this they don't even have a license.incredible.

[Genossa maximillian]

It serves a purpose, I got into contact with the only people that can bring some real light into this, the Government of Curacao and they have revealed a valuable piece of information, that CMU not only is lacking a charter (the dead horse as you call it) but neither a license to operate in Curacao, and that is very important. I am sorry, but if you feel that it does not serve a purpose, then you have a problem adjusting to this sad reality. Sorry, no intention to offend you or anything.

Lets be honest in here guys. I think it is time for us to stop beating a dead horse we all know the problems cmu have and wasting time on the issues over and over again serve absolutely no purpose at all.

[Genossa maximillian]

They do say on the email the school is in the process of obtaining the necessary license and permits. We can only see how it turns out. Just to clarify for those who think I want to emphasize only the negative on this.

[Scott1981]

They do say on the email the school is in the process of obtaining the necessary license and permits. We can only see how it turns out. Just to clarify for those who think I want to emphasize only the negative on this.

your scars are showing from a frivilous lawsuit that got dropped on you at some point in your life :lol: :p

[Genossa maximillian]

gotta cover all the bases :roll:

your scars are showing from a frivilous lawsuit that got dropped on you at some point in your life :lol: :p

[eastern2western]

gotta cover all the bases :roll:
I would love to give u some sarcastic remark about the whole charter issue, but this place is under extreme watch and any ** coming out key board could get permanently removed. Good job on the investigation, mi amigo.

[lswiltshire]

Why would you wish to be sarcastic?

Wist thou not that Genosa Max is a lawyer? And that as a wise counsel with hoary head on the boards he is a man worth LISTENING to.

You might be suprised if you did that you might pick up something useful. Respect due please!

My old Chem teacher taught

A WISE OLD OWL SAT ON AN OAK
THE MORE HE HEARD THE LESS HE SPOKE
THE LESS HE SPOKE THE MORE HE HEARD
IT IS GOOD TO BE LIKE THAT WISE OLD OWL

On this forum some folk have something to say many seem to have to say something.

[TonyIvey]

It serves a purpose, I got into contact with the only people that can bring some real light into this, the Government of Curacao and they have revealed a valuable piece of information, that CMU not only is lacking a charter (the dead horse as you call it) but neither a license to operate in Curacao, and that is very important. I am sorry, but if you feel that it does not serve a purpose, then you have a problem adjusting to this sad reality. Sorry, no intention to offend you or anything.
Some people appreciate the information you brought to light,don't worry about defending it.

[TonyIvey]

Why would you wish to be sarcastic?

Wist thou not that Genosa Max is a lawyer? And that as a wise counsel with hoary head on the boards he is a man worth LISTENING to.

You might be suprised if you did that you might pick up something useful. Respect due please!

My old Chem teacher taught

A WISE OLD OWL SAT ON AN OAK
THE MORE HE HEARD THE LESS HE SPOKE
THE LESS HE SPOKE THE MORE HE HEARD
IT IS GOOD TO BE LIKE THAT WISE OLD OWL

On this forum some folk have something to say many seem to have to say something.
Very well said.haha I will quote your chem teacher if you don't mind.

[TonyIvey]

...according to the email from the Inspector-General they are awaiting for a license to operate in Curacao. I am as amazed as you are because I thought they had at least that a license and not the charter, turns out they don't have neither. Amazing!
Worse than originally thought.please keep us updated if you hear anything else.

[studentdoctobe]

Why would you wish to be sarcastic?

Wist thou not that Genosa Max is a lawyer? And that as a wise counsel with hoary head on the boards he is a man worth LISTENING to.

You might be suprised if you did that you might pick up something useful. Respect due please!

My old Chem teacher taught

A WISE OLD OWL SAT ON AN OAK
THE MORE HE HEARD THE LESS HE SPOKE
THE LESS HE SPOKE THE MORE HE HEARD
IT IS GOOD TO BE LIKE THAT WISE OLD OWL

On this forum some folk have something to say many seem to have to say something.
On point as usual.

[eastern2western]

wow, this place is pretty dead.

[MYMD]

yea September sweeps are over

[eastern2western]

I guess it is nothing but reruns..

[Scott1981]

about a week ago i emailed the education representative from the NA govt website. my email basically asked if they were going to get a charter. i then asked if they are going to grant a retroactive charter or one from the day it is signed forward. i asked what the implications would be for students currently enrolled if it is not retroactive.

here is the response:

Dear ****,
The Caribbean Medical University is in a process to get the charter from the government. It takes some time, but they will get it within 2 or 3 weeks.
The other questions mentioned in your e-mail I can not answer. I hope that you can hear from the CMU when all the paperwork is finished.
P de R

--------------------------------------------

take it for what it is worth. he "could not answer" my questions about the charter whether it is going to cover the previous months that cmu was open for business.

[eastern2western]

about a week ago i emailed the education representative from the NA govt website. my email basically asked if they were going to get a charter. i then asked if they are going to grant a retroactive charter or one from the day it is signed forward. i asked what the implications would be for students currently enrolled if it is not retroactive.

here is the response:

Dear ****,
The Caribbean Medical University is in a process to get the charter from the government. It takes some time, but they will get it within 2 or 3 weeks.
The other questions mentioned in your e-mail I can not answer. I hope that you can hear from the CMU when all the paperwork is finished.
P de R

--------------------------------------------

take it for what it is worth. he "could not answer" my questions about the charter whether it is going to cover the previous months that cmu was open for business.
no news day?

[Scott1981]

no news day?

i thought it was at least "some" news :cool:

[Genossa maximillian]

....Because that is exactly what they told me about 4 weeks ago, I posted the email, without names.

about a week ago i emailed the education representative from the NA govt website. my email basically asked if they were going to get a charter. i then asked if they are going to grant a retroactive charter or one from the day it is signed forward. i asked what the implications would be for students currently enrolled if it is not retroactive.

here is the response:

Dear ****,
The Caribbean Medical University is in a process to get the charter from the government. It takes some time, but they will get it within 2 or 3 weeks.
The other questions mentioned in your e-mail I can not answer. I hope that you can hear from the CMU when all the paperwork is finished.
P de R

--------------------------------------------

take it for what it is worth. he "could not answer" my questions about the charter whether it is going to cover the previous months that cmu was open for business.

[makamba]

... and they will say it again in two-three weeks.
Isn't a good life?

Tata,

Maka

[Scott1981]

ahhh, i gues i didnt keep up to date with the drama. my bad for the redundancy :lol: