Time will show who was right

[rlewkowski]

I was advised by the students, staff, teachers not to spend to much time on VMD, since its pointless. Now I see they are right.
I have explained numerous times:
1. CMU doesn’t need the IMED listing until we certify students for USMLE, which was proved in the previous posts
2. The charter of CIU is good enough to provide medical education on the island and to issue MD degrees /if you don’t believe, check with the Ministry of Education/
3. Our charter will be issued by the end of the month, so finally all of those "valuable" posters /students and agents of other schools/ will finally go away.
4. There is no need to postpone any semesters, since CMU is totally legal on the island of Curacao /if you don’t believe, please check with the Government of Curacao/
5. CMU foundation guarantees the MedLoan so we are absolutely sure that our students will become qualified physicians, otherwise they won’t be able to repay the loan.
6. I won’t reply to any other posts regarding charter and IMED, its just worthless. You'll see the results soon.
7. I have more important things to do that reply over and over again to the same black PR. I’m still available to answer all genuine questions.

CMU will stay and provide valuable education services if you like it or not, therefore I think you shouldn't waist your time bashing the school and rather hit the books.

[emt036]

1. CMU doesn’t need the IMED listing until we certify students for USMLE, which was proved in the previous posts

Assuming that IMED retrodates the dates of instruction. If your charter is dated August/September 2007 (assuming that it is issued), then what does that mean for students currently enrolled?

2. The charter of CIU is good enough to provide medical education on the island and to issue MD degrees /if you don’t believe, check with the Ministry of Education/
3. Our charter will be issued by the end of the month, so finally all of those "valuable" posters /students and agents of other schools/ will finally go away.These two statements contradict each other. Your charter is good enough, even though it hasn't been issued yet? And no conspiracy theories here - no agents from other schools, just students trying to prevent gullible/desperate medical students from going to a school where they will be ineligible from becoming a doctor.

4. There is no need to postpone any semesters, since CMU is totally legal on the island of Curacao /if you don’t believe, please check with the Government of Curacao/

Once again this is claimed without any objective evidence to back it up.

5. CMU foundation guarantees the MedLoan so we are absolutely sure that our students will become qualified physicians, otherwise they won’t be able to repay the loan.The school has to loan money to its own students because no one else will loan money to such a high-risk/unaccredited school.

6. I won’t reply to any other posts regarding charter and IMED, its just worthless. You'll see the results soon.Why not? They are central to any student wishing to become a licensed physician, rather than having a worthless piece of paper. Again, "results soon" is an empty promise. Why doesn't the school have a charter and is IMED-listed before classes began, as is claimed (rather fraudulently) on the schools website?

[teratos]

I worry about statements like the charter of CIU is "good enough". It matters not what Curacao thinks, in the long run, what the licensing boards think is more important. Proof is going to take some time.

When you guys come out as aggressively as you did, with videos, multiple sunny posts, you have to expect scrutiny. We'll see what happens....

[dt]

I was advised by the students, staff, teachers not to spend to much time on VMD, since its pointless. Now I see they are right.
I have explained numerous times:
1. CMU doesn’t need the IMED listing until we certify students for USMLE, which was proved in the previous posts
2. The charter of CIU is good enough to provide medical education on the island and to issue MD degrees /if you don’t believe, check with the Ministry of Education/
3. Our charter will be issued by the end of the month, so finally all of those "valuable" posters /students and agents of other schools/ will finally go away.
4. There is no need to postpone any semesters, since CMU is totally legal on the island of Curacao /if you don’t believe, please check with the Government of Curacao/
5. CMU foundation guarantees the MedLoan so we are absolutely sure that our students will become qualified physicians, otherwise they won’t be able to repay the loan.
6. I won’t reply to any other posts regarding charter and IMED, its just worthless. You'll see the results soon.
7. I have more important things to do that reply over and over again to the same black PR. I’m still available to answer all genuine questions.

CMU will stay and provide valuable education services if you like it or not, therefore I think you shouldn't waist your time bashing the school and rather hit the books.


# 1 does not address licensing issues in Canada and USA. Will the States and Provinces recognize the portion of medical education undertaken before the school was given the right to grant medical degree? That's a risky call for anyone to take.

# 2 contradicts what you said eariler about the monopoly of medical education in Curacao. The reason you gave was that St. Martinus had the monopoly on medical education till 2008. Well, if CIU can also grant MD degree, then St. Martinus did not have a monopoly.

Besides, if CIU has the charter to provide MD degree, why would they affiliate with you? Why would they allow you to use their facilities and compete with them?

Or, why then do you need to get your own charter if CIU's is good enough right now?


Suggestion: I think your spin is getting out of control. You'll probably need to get a good marketing agency to spin this better for you.

[studentdoctobe]

I was advised by the students, staff, teachers not to spend to much time on VMD, since its pointless. Now I see they are right.
I have explained numerous times:
1. CMU doesn’t need the IMED listing until we certify students for USMLE, which was proved in the previous posts
2. The charter of CIU is good enough to provide medical education on the island and to issue MD degrees /if you don’t believe, check with the Ministry of Education/
3. Our charter will be issued by the end of the month, so finally all of those "valuable" posters /students and agents of other schools/ will finally go away.
4. There is no need to postpone any semesters, since CMU is totally legal on the island of Curacao /if you don’t believe, please check with the Government of Curacao/
5. CMU foundation guarantees the MedLoan so we are absolutely sure that our students will become qualified physicians, otherwise they won’t be able to repay the loan.
6. I won’t reply to any other posts regarding charter and IMED, its just worthless. You'll see the results soon.
7. I have more important things to do that reply over and over again to the same black PR. I’m still available to answer all genuine questions.

CMU will stay and provide valuable education services if you like it or not, therefore I think you shouldn't waist your time bashing the school and rather hit the books.
Here we go again, :rolleyes:
CMU doesn’t need the IMED listing until we certify students for USMLE, which was proved in the previous posts You really are a piece of work.

3. Our charter will be issued by the end of the month, so finally all of those "valuable" posters /students and agents of other schools/ will finally go away.
Is it me or has the date changed ONCE AGAIN

4. There is no need to postpone any semesters, since CMU is totally legal on the island of Curacao /if you don’t believe, please check with the Government of Curacao/
With this mindset, no wonder you don't even see the need to get accredited FIRST.

5. CMU foundation guarantees the MedLoan so we are absolutely sure that our students will become qualified physicians, otherwise they won’t be able to repay the loan.
How many students have you currently loaned money to, TO DATE
According to your loan criteria, how many students do you think will be able to get loans from your medloan.
Forget about all that for a min, how many student will be registering for sept semester?

7. I have more important things to do that reply over and over again to the same black PR. I’m still available to answer all genuine questions
Funny you have suddenly realized that, as you can tell the heat is on, and the pressure is on full force.

[rlewkowski]

"Assuming that IMED retrodates the dates of instruction. If your charter is dated August/September 2007 (assuming that it is issued), then what does that mean for students currently enrolled?"

Check with ECFMG when a school needs to be listed in IMED, since you are evidently missing that information.

Thats funny:
"The school has to loan money to its own students because no one else will loan money to such a high-risk/unaccredited school."
The Foundation only guarantees the loan, the loan found is from Europe. Again get more info before posting.

Out of about 30 medical schools in Caribbean only 4 have real accreditation. What you all are referring to /IMED/ is not an accreditation and schools that are listed can any date vanish from the directory if the Government stops recognizing them. No wonder why Sallie Mae and before KeyBank dropped all of them. They found them to risky. And following the problems other schools experience:
charging for transferring out /$4000/
problems getting transcripts,
grade reports and other documents,
throwing cadaver remains to a garbage can,
holding loan disbursements,
not issuing tuition refund,
charges for dorms students never lived in,
treating students like slaves,
unqualified teachers,
Deans whose license was revoked,
sex harassment,
teachers & students being illegal on the island,
lack of basic teaching materials /sometimes even cleaning supplies or toilet paper/,
library with 0 medical books, etc.
they should have already done it or do it soon.

So your so called IMED “accreditation” is just an illusion.

[MYMD]

I beg to differ on Accreditation, really no one has it in the Caribbean, the only real one that counts in the USA is LCME.

ACCM is required by the US DOE, but I was unimpressed by them. It may be just fee and a "Stamp".

I think Cali is Joke IMO just a game they play.

LCME is the only one that seems to matter and none of these schools have it.

[rlewkowski]

That’s a good question

"# 1 does not address licensing issues in Canada and USA. Will the States and Provinces recognize the portion of medical education undertaken before the school was given the right to grant medical degree? That's a risky call for anyone to take."

CIU's charter was in 2001.

"# 2 contradicts what you said earlier about the monopoly of medical education in Curacao. The reason you gave was that St. Martinus had the monopoly on medical education till 2008. Well, if CIU can also grant MD degree, then St. Martinus did not have a monopoly."

The monopoly ended in 2005, and St. Martinus wanted to extend it for another 5 years. They were offered 2 years and insisted on 5.They didn’t got approval, but the situation had to be clarified.
CIU never intended to run a medical school, therefore they didn’t appeal the decision regarding the monopoly.

Besides, if CIU has the charter to provide MD degree, why would they affiliate with you? Why would they allow you to use their facilities and compete with them?
Because they focus on students from South America and don’t have affiliations with the hospitals in U.S.

Or, why then do you need to get your own charter if CIU's is good enough right now?
To avoid the confusion between CIU and CMU. We are planning to merge those 2 universities in the future.

Suggestion: I think your spin is getting out of control. You'll probably need to get a good marketing agency to spin this better for you.[/QUOTE]

I think I answered the questions. If you need confirmation please contact the Department of Economics or the Government of Curacao.

Im happy to reply to this kind of questions. They should be asked and I'll be always willing to answer them.

[rlewkowski]

LCME is the only one that seems to matter and none of these schools have it.

Because LCME doesn’t accredit foreign schools but recognizes accreditation from ACCM, which recently denied St. James.

[rlewkowski]

This is how ValueMD should be like. Get information, ask questions, discuss, not offend and bash.

[finishingfifth]

"Assuming that IMED retrodates the dates of instruction. If your charter is dated August/September 2007 (assuming that it is issued), then what does that mean for students currently enrolled?"

Check with ECFMG when a school needs to be listed in IMED, since you are evidently missing that information.

Thats funny:
"The school has to loan money to its own students because no one else will loan money to such a high-risk/unaccredited school."
The Foundation only guarantees the loan, the loan found is from Europe. Again get more info before posting.

Out of about 30 medical schools in Caribbean only 4 have real accreditation. What you all are referring to /IMED/ is not an accreditation and schools that are listed can any date vanish from the directory if the Government stops recognizing them. No wonder why Sallie Mae and before KeyBank dropped all of them. They found them to risky. And following the problems other schools experience:
charging for transferring out /$4000/
problems getting transcripts,
grade reports and other documents,
throwing cadaver remains to a garbage can,
holding loan disbursements,
not issuing tuition refund,
charges for dorms students never lived in,
treating students like slaves,
unqualified teachers,
Deans whose license was revoked,
sex harassment,
teachers & students being illegal on the island,
lack of basic teaching materials /sometimes even cleaning supplies or toilet paper/,
library with 0 medical books, etc.
they should have already done it or do it soon.

So your so called IMED “accreditation” is just an illusion.

Again, when asked about CMU you bring up the faults of other schools. So...if these schools are so bad and they HAVE IMED, what does that say about CMU? BTW, I agree that only 4 schools have all the proper accreditation (50 states, etc). That is why IMHO those are the only med schools in the caribbean worth attending.

[rokshana]

no one here (well except you maybe) thinks that IMED accredits med schools- but LISTING, see the words L-I-S-T-I-N-G is the important thing and guess what? you don't HAVE it YOU DON'T HAVE IT. Ans its really quite a simple thing to do - a sovereign nation has to recognize you as a school that is able to confer a Medical Degree, be it an MD, MBBS, or whatever and gues what - you don't have that either - YOU DON'T HAVE IT. Yes, from what we can see is that CIU has a charter to confer degrees not medical degrees, but are you confusing "I" with "M"? perhaps??? And that the Ministry of Education welcomes your APPLICATION to appy to open a school- an UNDERGRADUATE school but a school nonetheless.

So ok, maybe, and i am s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g belief here, but maybe the gov't of curacao will grant you the ablity to confer a degree (whether THAT is a medical degree, well....) and you get IMED listing - fine you are fully capable of producing doctors to practice in curacao. But, wait a minute, that isn't your target demographic, now is it??? No, you are looking for those desparate kids that are lookin to practice int the US!!! Aha!!! this is where the rub is!!! Because the individual state medical boards all make up their own rules and many- say Cali and Texas and Penn, have rules that are much stricter than just being listed on IMED- and even the ones that aren't so strict still have some rules- a biggie generally is that students ATTENDED and graduated from schools recognized by a sovereign nation- and MONTH and YEAR do matter- if classes are taken before a school is allowed to conduct said classes, they won't COUNT!!!! and the student will be short a degree- no degree no license. No license, no practice. Simple as that.

Don't think charter and dates will make a difference- ask the people who were students and are graduates of St. Christopher's - they will definitely tell you a different story - this isn't some abstract- it has happened - st chris's grad have been denied renewal of their residency contracts because of charter date issues.


you're right, though, you shouldn't really post here until you have your ducks in a row- WE are tired of constantly ASKING the same questions and getting the same canned response- why don't you run along and do some of those school offical things, like get a charter and get IMED LISTING, and so forth instead of trying to play spin doctor ('cuase i gotta tell ya- you don't do it so well....)

[emt036]

Check with ECFMG when a school needs to be listed in IMED, since you are evidently missing that information.

Again, you are being evasive. If the school is listed in IMED as starting in late 2007, or 2008, then classes taken before that don't count for ECFMG nor licensing.

Thats funny:
"The school has to loan money to its own students because no one else will loan money to such a high-risk/unaccredited school."
The Foundation only guarantees the loan, the loan found is from Europe. Again get more info before posting.

But it is offered through the CMU foundation, which is the school. Where the school's bank account is probably doesn't matter.

Out of about 30 medical schools in Caribbean only 4 have real accreditation.

All schools in the Caribbean are accredited by the appropriate civil authorities/government agency in the country where they are located, except CMU (and St. Chris/other fraudulent schools.) All of them are also listed in IMED, which leads to the ability to take USMLE exams and ECFMG certification, none of which CMU has, despite claims.

And following the problems other schools experience:
charging for transferring out /$4000/
problems getting transcripts,
grade reports and other documents,
throwing cadaver remains to a garbage can,
holding loan disbursements,
not issuing tuition refund,
charges for dorms students never lived in,
treating students like slaves,
unqualified teachers,
Deans whose license was revoked,
sex harassment,
teachers & students being illegal on the island,
lack of basic teaching materials /sometimes even cleaning supplies or toilet paper/,
library with 0 medical books, etc.
they should have already done it or do it soon.

Once again with this laundry list of unverified claims of how bad it is at other schools. Makes one think that there is nothing good to say about CMU (or at least verifiably good).

[emt036]

CIU's charter was in 2001.

To grant a bunch of undergraduate degrees. This does not include granting an MD degree, otherwise it would be listed in IMED as a bonafide medical school.

I think I answered the questions.

Not really...

[MYMD]

To grant a bunch of undergraduate degrees. This does not include granting an MD degree, otherwise it would be listed in IMED as a bonafide medical school.



Not really...


Well to be listed on IMED the Government must request it, if CIU never opened a Medschool before but had this Charter to do so, then it was only listed in the charter they could, it seems they never did. IMED does not spend the time looking at Medical schools around the world to list. You have to apply.

I think the mistake here is that CMU should have called it's self CIU Medical School if connected with them and then applied to IMED with this charter, but thats history

[finishingfifth]

This is how ValueMD should be like. Get information, ask questions, discuss, not offend and bash.

you might want to add: answer questions. If you are offended, I am sorry. Didnt mean to offend, only wanted truthful, verifiable answers for very easy questions. If asking you to provide results instead of conjecture is "bashing", then I am guilty of bashing. I would rather be calleda "basher" than a flat out liar.

[lswiltshire]

emt036
RL’s list below are not of a laundry list of unverified claims of how bad it is at other schools. It is a list of verified claims about a school at which he worked as an administrator for at least 5 years. He participated in and was a perpetrator of these ills at SJMS. ARE WE TO BELIEVE THAT HE WILL NOW DEPART FROM THE SAME OR FORGET HIS DEEDS?
RL knows well about what he speaks below. He was a willing participant

charging for transferring out /$4000/ See the SJMS forum of mid 2005 re the war with the SJMS students who transferred to XUSOM then
problems getting transcripts, as above
grade reports and other documents, as above
treating students like slaves, as above
unqualified teachers, as above
teachers & students being illegal on the island, as above
lack of basic teaching materials /sometimes even cleaning supplies or toilet paper/, as above
library with 0 medical books, etc. as above I counted the books myself in August 2004 I will find the list and post it
Deans whose license was revoked, SJMS hired this man first knowing of his past
throwing cadaver remains to a garbage can,
holding loan disbursements,
not issuing tuition refund,
charges for dorms students never lived in,
sex harassment,

[finishingfifth]

emt036
RL’s list below are not of a laundry list of unverified claims of how bad it is at other schools. It is a list of verified claims about a school at which he worked as an administrator for at least 5 years. He participated in and was a perpetrator of these ills at SJMS. ARE WE TO BELIEVE THAT HE WILL NOW DEPART FROM THE SAME OR FORGET HIS DEEDS?
RL knows well about what he speaks below. He was a willing participant

charging for transferring out /$4000/ See the SJMS forum of mid 2005 re the war with the SJMS students who transferred to XUSOM then
problems getting transcripts, as above
grade reports and other documents, as above
treating students like slaves, as above
unqualified teachers, as above
teachers & students being illegal on the island, as above
lack of basic teaching materials /sometimes even cleaning supplies or toilet paper/, as above
library with 0 medical books, etc. as above I counted the books myself in August 2004 I will find the list and post it
Deans whose license was revoked, SJMS hired this man first knowing of his past
throwing cadaver remains to a garbage can,
holding loan disbursements,
not issuing tuition refund,
charges for dorms students never lived in,
sex harassment,

Hey RL, did any of these things happen at SJMS while you were there? Did you do anything to stop it?

[dt]

That’s a good question

"# 1 does not address licensing issues in Canada and USA. Will the States and Provinces recognize the portion of medical education undertaken before the school was given the right to grant medical degree? That's a risky call for anyone to take."

CIU's charter was in 2001.

"# 2 contradicts what you said earlier about the monopoly of medical education in Curacao. The reason you gave was that St. Martinus had the monopoly on medical education till 2008. Well, if CIU can also grant MD degree, then St. Martinus did not have a monopoly."

The monopoly ended in 2005, and St. Martinus wanted to extend it for another 5 years. They were offered 2 years and insisted on 5.They didn’t got approval, but the situation had to be clarified.
CIU never intended to run a medical school, therefore they didn’t appeal the decision regarding the monopoly.

Besides, if CIU has the charter to provide MD degree, why would they affiliate with you? Why would they allow you to use their facilities and compete with them?
Because they focus on students from South America and don’t have affiliations with the hospitals in U.S.

Or, why then do you need to get your own charter if CIU's is good enough right now?
To avoid the confusion between CIU and CMU. We are planning to merge those 2 universities in the future.

Suggestion: I think your spin is getting out of control. You'll probably need to get a good marketing agency to spin this better for you.

I think I answered the questions. If you need confirmation please contact the Department of Economics or the Government of Curacao.

Im happy to reply to this kind of questions. They should be asked and I'll be always willing to answer them.


Your statements are in bold.


CIU has a charter in 2001. St. Martinus started in 2003.

Now why would Curacao give St. Martinus a medical education monopoly if CIU already has the right to provide a medical education and grant MD degree?



You know, you have flaws in your story that you are spinning.

[emt036]

Well to be listed on IMED the Government must request it, if CIU never opened a Medschool before but had this Charter to do so, then it was only listed in the charter they could, it seems they never did. IMED does not spend the time looking at Medical schools around the world to list. You have to apply.

I think the mistake here is that CMU should have called it's self CIU Medical School if connected with them and then applied to IMED with this charter, but thats history

If CIU had a charter to open a medical school (and there is no evidence that they do/did), then why didn't they open a medical school? With all the new schools opening in the Caribbean before basic paperwork (i.e. Charter/IMED listing) is completed, it must be quite a cash cow. And I am sure medical school charters aren't cheap - so why buy one if you are not going to use it. Doesn't make sense. Also, CIU getting a medical school charter would not be likely with the ban on new medical schools that RL keeps talking about.

[lswiltshire]

Rokshana wrote
So ok, maybe, and i am s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g belief here, but maybe the gov't of curacao will grant you the ablity to confer a degree (whether THAT is a medical degree, well....) and you get IMED listing - fine you are fully capable of producing doctors to practice in curacao.

PLEASE NOTE CAREFULLY THAT THE MD OF ANY OFFSHORE OR ONSHORE US SCHOOL IS ACCEPTED IN THE DUTCH OR BWI TERRITORIES EXCEPT YOU HAVE DONE A RESIDENCY AND SPECIALIZED

THE DUTCH EXPECT YOU TO TRAIN FOR 7 YEARS IN ALL BEFORE YOU CAN PRACTICE

SOP CMU GRADS WONT EVEN BE ABLE TO PRACTICE IN CURACAO

[MYMD]

If CIU had a charter to open a medical school (and there is no evidence that they do/did), then why didn't they open a medical school? With all the new schools opening in the Caribbean before basic paperwork (i.e. Charter/IMED listing) is completed, it must be quite a cash cow. And I am sure medical school charters aren't cheap - so why buy one if you are not going to use it. Doesn't make sense. Also, CIU getting a medical school charter would not be likely with the ban on new medical schools that RL keeps talking about.

Yea I agree there are questions here, You do need PHD's and MD's to open up a Medical school perhaps it just wasn't organized well? I have no idea ? Maybe the thought was "in the future" I have no idea?

It is clear that IMED and ECMFG is cracking down on these schools thats why the new policy has come out. After SC problems I understand and think between SC and Krigezi the world has been forever changed by them and anyone wanting to do anything like this will find it harder now.

[lswiltshire]

RL

TIME HAS ALREADY SHOWN THAT YOU ARE WRONG

You remind me of the saying of my 4th form Maths teacher. He would say to the lads.......YOU CAN LIE LIKE A HORSE CAN TROT

[MYMD]

Rokshana wrote


THE DUTCH EXPECT YOU TO TRAIN FOR 7 YEARS IN ALL BEFORE YOU CAN PRACTICE

SOP CMU GRADS WONT EVEN BE ABLE TO PRACTICE IN CURACAO

Well not true, Curacao will be it's own country so they can decide who can practice there. ( just wanted to throw that out there)

[lswiltshire]

Well thats how it was when I lived there two years ago. THIS WAS CLERARLY SPELT OUT BY HOSPITAL AND OTHER HEALTH OFFICIALS THERE.

There was a local girl who graduated from St Eustatius who was unable to practice in Curacao then.

You really expect someone in the islands to let people come on thier island with a degree from a bogus offshore med school and practice medicine after 4 years?

You cant do it in the USA. Why do you think it will happen in the islands.

The islanders are poor, but they are not stupid!

Anyway, but to the issue of the moment! Dealing with the errant RL and his new SJMS. You can take RL from SJMS, but you cant take SJMS out of RL!

[rlewkowski]

Again, you are being evasive. If the school is listed in IMED as starting in late 2007, or 2008, then classes taken before that don't count for ECFMG nor licensing.



But it is offered through the CMU foundation, which is the school. Where the school's bank account is probably doesn't matter.



All schools in the Caribbean are accredited by the appropriate civil authorities/government agency in the country where they are located, except CMU (and St. Chris/other fraudulent schools.) All of them are also listed in IMED, which leads to the ability to take USMLE exams and ECFMG certification, none of which CMU has, despite claims.



Once again with this laundry list of unverified claims of how bad it is at other schools. Makes one think that there is nothing good to say about CMU (or at least verifiably good).

I’m now going to start using your language. All 3 points all 3 lies

[rlewkowski]

Hey RL, did any of these things happen at SJMS while you were there? Did you do anything to stop it?

If you had an idea how SJSM is functioning you would know that there is a one /president/ man show. Without his approval I wasn’t even able to buy cleaning supplies for the school

[finishingfifth]

If you had an idea how SJSM is functioning you would know that there is a one /president/ man show. Without his approval I wasn’t even able to buy cleaning supplies for the school

So, we are to expect CMU to get IMED and ECFMG approval with an official on staff who cant get Charmin approved? Wow, good luck with that.

[emt036]

I’m now going to start using your language. All 3 points all 3 lies

Very elegant way of avoiding any of the issues raised with regards to licensing/legitimacy of the school. You know, with people spending years of their lives and hundreds of thousands of dollars on a medical education, one would hope that the chairman of a medical school would take it seriously enough to offer non-evasive, truthful responses to questions asked, instead of resorting to name-calling.

[finishingfifth]

I’m now going to start using your language. All 3 points all 3 lies

Uhhh, they arent lies. They are all easily verifiable. Unlike any claims CMU makes. I think staff at CMU might have told you to stop responding on VMD because you aren't very good at it. The people on here are mostly future/current physicians, not a gullible bunch of people. they are not going to be outsmarted by a snake oil salesman. I suggest you stick to your current occupation, which is the fradulent promotion of a uncertified & unrecognized patch of rented office space you call a medical school.

[lswiltshire]

For the entire short wretched life of the CMU, RL has indulged in down right deception, gross treachery, fabrication, conmanship, and extraordinary dishonesty.

ALL THIS BAHAVIOR TELLS ME THAT CMU HAS NO STANDARDS!
A SCHOOL CAN ONLY BE AS GOOD AS ITS LEADERS!

LET THE WORLD KNOW CMU EXPECTS ITS STUDENTS TO EMULATE ITS CHAIRMAN?PRESIDENT/ADMINISTRATOR WHO IS AN EXPOSED CONFIRMED LIAR.

It gauls me to see sincere innocent young people who are merely seeking a proper medical education fooled and lured to bogus medical schools like CMU because of their gullibility and silliness in order just to enrich the likes of RL.

All sincere schools get a website that they didn’t steal from here there and everywhere. Then the get listed with IMED, Faimer, ECFMG etc. This is the accepted procedure. If you have not done so, you are in breach, and the forum has the right to vigorously and vehemently proclaim this to unsuspecting prospective students.

What is so difficult to understand?

Students or the forum members do not want to hear that the school is eligible for listing in WHO and IMED as any other Caribbean medical school. If you do not have the required listings you must wait until you do BEFORE STARTING SCHOOL. We don’t want to hear about delays in processing of applications, whether they were due to your control or not, or whether there were due to unresolved claims of St. Martinus about their exclusive right to operate medical school on the island.

In such a case you must SIMPLY WAIT until you get the listings, just as students have to wait until they get the requisite qualifications for admission prior to tendering their applications.Lying to poor gullible students who are desperate to go to med school and stealing their money is not only fraud but it is both despicable and reprehensible.

[lswiltshire]

***** ********* wrote
If you had an idea how SJSM is functioning you would know that there is a one /president/ man show. Without his approval I wasn’t even able to buy cleaning supplies for the school.

I am glad to hear you tell the truth that any who was even briefly associated with that place know. But because you put up with his nonsense for years, why do you expect that the forum will put up with the arrogance you are displaying in your posts that you learned at SJMS?

I hoped that CMU would not be another SJMS. But lo and behold, you have sunk deeper into the quagmire of all that is representative of SJMS.

[finishingfifth]

We all know RL will ignore the facts. We can only hope some potential students will be turned off by what they read on VMD and go elsewhere.

[lswiltshire]

Keep him posting.
Run him ragged as we say in cricket. That way he will expose himself. Then all the world will see his true intents and purposes. [ Well more than we have seen already]

As we say in the islands THE MORE DE MONKEY CLIMB DE TREE DE MORE WE CAN SEE HE TAIL.


As long as he fails to acknowlege his faults & the more he displays his arrogance the more we must post. Eventually most of the prospective students and newbies to the forum will learn that CMU musat be avoided until it can truthfully say and prove that it is listed as it ought to be.

THAT SEEMS FOR NOW TO MEAN NO SEPTEMBER SEMESTER

[studentdoctobe]

This is how ValueMD should be like. Get information, ask questions, discuss, not offend and bash.

Now you are making fun of yourself, as if infact you have done any of the above.
You have never answered any question truthfully, if at all, you end up avoiding them and try to bring up other irreleant issues to cover up your lies.

VMD is a place where students came come and get TRUTHFUL INFORMATION from other students and school officials.

NOT a place where a school official can come to promote his illegal scheme of taking money from un-informed students through any form of deception!

[AUCMD2006]

" No wonder why Sallie Mae and before KeyBank dropped all of them. They found them to risky.

you only need to look in the mirror to see why key bank and sallie mae left. SGU, Ross, and AUC over the last 20 years collectively have had less than 1.0% loan default rates* with most on the 0.1% but the proliferation of piece of excrement schools that now number more than 20 in the area, with some being open for a short time and collapsing just in the last 4 years is what led to the pull out.

it started with that joke of a school st chris and key bank then sallie mae. you wanna talk about high risk?

it is your type of school that makes anything down there high risk

it is your type of operation that makes a mockery of education in the caribbean

it is your false claims, blunt copying of copy righted material that makes caribbean education synonimous with some senegalese pyramid scam

so stop lecturing others about "risky ventures" or your riduculous list of things that are wrong with other schools and start by working on your ever growing list of issues which seems to be on an exponential growth curve

(this has not been spell checked)

*figues given to students from doe and sallie mae 2 years ago when our stafford loans where under scrutiny by congress so that we may write our reps but here are the links for doe, i don't have the sallie mae stuff anymore but they mirror the doe stats
COHORT DATA RATES DETAILS (http://wdcrobcolp01.ed.gov/CFAPPS/COHORT/cohortdata_detail.cfm?Record_ID=124&record=1&TOTAL_REC=1)
COHORT DATA RATES DETAILS (http://wdcrobcolp01.ed.gov/CFAPPS/COHORT/cohortdata_detail.cfm?Record_ID=125&record=2&TOTAL_REC=3)
COHORT DATA RATES DETAILS (http://wdcrobcolp01.ed.gov/CFAPPS/COHORT/cohortdata_detail.cfm?Record_ID=336&record=1&TOTAL_REC=1)
COHORT DATA RATES DETAILS (http://wdcrobcolp01.ed.gov/CFAPPS/COHORT/cohortdata_detail.cfm?Record_ID=154&record=1&TOTAL_REC=1)

[studentdoctobe]

If you had an idea how SJSM is functioning you would know that there is a one /president/ man show. Without his approval I wasn’t even able to buy cleaning supplies for the school

:crackingup:
So umm, so you wanted to be like him?

[studentdoctobe]

RL why is it so easy for you to pick other schools apart when you can't seem to see right under your own nose, all these points raised here apparently do not even register in your mind, you just view it as people out to get you, there could be a reason why you behave this way don't you think you should see someone to make sure all is gravy.

[studentdoctobe]

I was advised by the students, staff, teachers not to spend to much time on VMD, since its pointless. Now I see they are right.
I have explained numerous times:
1. CMU doesn’t need the IMED listing until we certify students for USMLE, which was proved in the previous posts
2. The charter of CIU is good enough to provide medical education on the island and to issue MD degrees /if you don’t believe, check with the Ministry of Education/
3. Our charter will be issued by the end of the month, so finally all of those "valuable" posters /students and agents of other schools/ will finally go away.
4. There is no need to postpone any semesters, since CMU is totally legal on the island of Curacao /if you don’t believe, please check with the Government of Curacao/
5. CMU foundation guarantees the MedLoan so we are absolutely sure that our students will become qualified physicians, otherwise they won’t be able to repay the loan.
6. I won’t reply to any other posts regarding charter and IMED, its just worthless. You'll see the results soon.
7. I have more important things to do that reply over and over again to the same black PR. I’m still available to answer all genuine questions.

CMU will stay and provide valuable education services if you like it or not, therefore I think you shouldn't waist your time bashing the school and rather hit the books.


I knew there was something I read about a charter date....

http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/140933-congratulations.html

The charter was signed by the Governor of Curacao today. I just talked to the Administration and they informed my about it. I also called the Government of Curacao and they confirmed the CMU charter was issued today. They said they would provide the original to the school Monday morning. If some agents still don’t believe than wait till Monday and call the Office of the Governor.
It seems like everyone there is celebrating. The SGA organized a party tonight.
SO NOW WHAT DO ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO BASHED CMU HAVE TO SAY?
Mrs. Rokshana: "I'll bet you a shiny EC that they don't get it!!!"
Where is my shiny EC now?

Congratulations again and keep up the good work!!!!!


Wow, considering the last confusion about mdbonaire's real/true identity, it sure is downright dispicable!

Who do these people think they are lieing up and down like this, deceiving people, saying whatever they want, knowing they are lying.

They should not continue to proliferate on here with this level of deception.

[studentdoctobe]

Keep him posting.
Run him ragged as we say in cricket. That way he will expose himself. Then all the world will see his true intents and purposes. [ Well more than we have seen already]

As we say in the islands THE MORE DE MONKEY CLIMB DE TREE DE MORE WE CAN SEE HE TAIL.


As long as he fails to acknowlege his faults & the more he displays his arrogance the more we must post. Eventually most of the prospective students and newbies to the forum will learn that CMU musat be avoided until it can truthfully say and prove that it is listed as it ought to be.

THAT SEEMS FOR NOW TO MEAN NO SEPTEMBER SEMESTER

Absolutely, seems the more he posts, the more he exposes himself.

Liars are known to often forget what lie they told the last time, and are forced to tell a new lie to cover the old lie.

Enough of his lies though!

[lswiltshire]

This note was posted on one of the fora on Aug 21, 2004 concerning the SJMS library, during the time that RL was a big boy there. So when he speaks about school librarries he knows about what he speaks. When he speaks about SJMS you tells the truth.

This is an exact list of the titles in the SJMS library then. There were many copies of some books, but very few that were suitable for Basic Science study. I am sure you wont believe the list below, but anyone who has been to SJMS and is honest will tell you that the list below is quite accurate. ENJOY The ones in bold are my favorites.

AGENT OF CHARGE
MASTER WINDOWS VISUALLY
INTERNET SERVER CONSTITUTION KIT FOR WINDOWS
TEACH YOURSELF HTML4
DIGITAL LITERACY
THE WEB PAGE DESIGN COOKBOOK
ARCHITECTS OF THE WEB
A SHORT COURSE IN COMPUTER VIRUSES
WEB PUBLISHING WITH ADOBE ACROBAT & PDF
ADOBE ILLUSTRATOR PATHS AND CURVES
THE ART OF TESTING NETWORK SYSTEMS
THE BECKS GUIDE TO INTERNET BUSINESS SUCCESS
THE WEB NAVIGATOR
THE INTERNET TRAINERS TOTAL SOLUTION IN GUIDE
TEACH YOURSELF THE INTERNET WWW VISUALLY
AN INTRODUCTION TO OBJECT CONTROL

SPANISH ENGLISH DICTIONARY
GEOLOGY TODAY
SCIENTIFIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
BENJAMIN BANNELER
COSMIC QUESTIONS
DISCOVER CALCULUS WITH THE GRAPHIC CALCULATION
CALCULUS
APPLIED CALCULUS
ELEMENTS OF STATISTICAL REASONING
DOING STATISTICS FOR BUSINESS
FITING EQUATIONS TO DATA
NATURE WRITING
FREE MONEY
IN GOOD CONSCIENCE
THE LEADERSHIP PARADOX
ECOLOGICAL NUMERACY
10 DAYS TO FASTER READING
BOYS AND GIRLS LEARN DIFFERENTLY
AN INTRODUCTION TO ANALYSIS
MALIGNANT HYPOTHERMIA
HOPE IN THE EAST
AGILITY IN HEALTH CARE
A SHIP CALLED HOPE
THE NURSE MANAGERS PROBLEM SOLVER
12 KEYS FOR LIVING
THE NAME OF THE GAME
PRINCIPLES OF MICRO ECONOMICS
PRINCIPLES OF MACRO ECONOMICS
FINANCIAL FIRST AID
THE COMMUNITY OF THE FUTURE
THE REINVENTORS FIELD BOOK
SISTER POWER
ON WOMEN TURNING 70
PILGRIM HEART
THE FRANCHISE FRAUD
TASTE VS FAT
WEIGH LESS LIVE LONGER
ESSENTIALS OF NUTRITION AND DIET THERAPY
WITH THE PHOENIX RISING
CREATING EXCELLENCE IN CRISIS CARE
CLEAN START
THE PROMISE OF GROUP THERAPY
STANDARDS OF FLIGHT NURSING PRACTICE
POSITIVE NUTRITION
RAPID GUIDE TO HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS
TEXTBOOK OF MEDICAL IMAGING
WHY WE AGE
BASIC CURRENT ANALYSIS
ALCHEMY OF A LEADER
CLINICAL DISSECTION GUIDE FOR LARGE ANIMALS
PHYSIOLOGICAL CHEMISTRY OF DOMESTIC ANIMALS
FUNDAMENTALS OF APPLIED DYNAMICS
ENGINEERING MECHANICS AND STATISTICS
ENGINEERING MECHANICS AND DYNAMICS
ENGINEERING AND FLUID MECHANICS
BASIC ELECTRIC CURRENT ANALYSIS
ANALYSIS AND DESIGN OF ELECTRIC CIRCUITS
FUTURE TRENDS IN MICROELECTRONICS
ELECTRONIC CIRCUIT ANALYSIS AND DESIGN
ENCLYCLOPEDIA OF ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS AND REMEDIATION
MECHANICS OF MATERIALS
EXCEL 5 FOR WINDOWS
JAVA FOR BUSINESS
ACCOUNTING PRINCIPALS
FELINE HUSBANDRY
THE SUPER MARKET GUIDE
GOOD HOUSE KEEPING RECIPES
FOR KING AND COUNTRY
IN SEARCH OF CHURCHILL
COMMUNICATIONS SKILLS FOR ENVIRONMENTAL TECHNOLOGY
ADVANCED SPORT DIVERS MANUAL
CONCISE HISTORY OF WESTERN MUSIC
SIMPLIFIED DESIGN OF CONCRETE STRUCTURES
LEADING BEYOND THE WALLS
THE OPEN BOOK MANAGEMENT FIELD BOOK
GREAT MINDS OF BUSINESS
MUSIC KIT
THE DESIGN ENCYLCOPEDIA
CREATING WOMENS NET WORKS
BEGINNING SPAMS
METHODS FOR ENGINEERS
STATISTICAL GUIDING ASSURANCE
HIGH TECH HIGH HOPE
MANAGING FOR EXCELLENCE
SELF ESTEEM AT WORK
TRANSFORMATIONAL LEARNING

[MYMD]

This note was posted on one of the fora on Aug 21, 2004 concerning the SJMS library, during the time that RL was a big boy there. So when he speaks about school librarries he knows about what he speaks. When he speaks about SJMS you tells the truth.

This is an exact list of the titles in the SJMS library then. There were many copies of some books, but very few that were suitable for Basic Science study. I am sure you wont believe the list below, but anyone who has been to SJMS and is honest will tell you that the list below is quite accurate. ENJOY The ones in bold are my favorites.

AGENT OF CHARGE
MASTER WINDOWS VISUALLY
INTERNET SERVER CONSTITUTION KIT FOR WINDOWS
TEACH YOURSELF HTML4
DIGITAL LITERACY
THE WEB PAGE DESIGN COOKBOOK
ARCHITECTS OF THE WEB
A SHORT COURSE IN COMPUTER VIRUSES
WEB PUBLISHING WITH ADOBE ACROBAT & PDF
ADOBE ILLUSTRATOR PATHS AND CURVES
THE ART OF TESTING NETWORK SYSTEMS
THE BECKS GUIDE TO INTERNET BUSINESS SUCCESS
THE WEB NAVIGATOR
THE INTERNET TRAINERS TOTAL SOLUTION IN GUIDE
TEACH YOURSELF THE INTERNET WWW VISUALLY
AN INTRODUCTION TO OBJECT CONTROL

SPANISH ENGLISH DICTIONARY
GEOLOGY TODAY
SCIENTIFIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
BENJAMIN BANNELER
COSMIC QUESTIONS
DISCOVER CALCULUS WITH THE GRAPHIC CALCULATION
CALCULUS
APPLIED CALCULUS
ELEMENTS OF STATISTICAL REASONING
DOING STATISTICS FOR BUSINESS
FITING EQUATIONS TO DATA
NATURE WRITING
FREE MONEY
IN GOOD CONSCIENCE
THE LEADERSHIP PARADOX
ECOLOGICAL NUMERACY
10 DAYS TO FASTER READING
BOYS AND GIRLS LEARN DIFFERENTLY
AN INTRODUCTION TO ANALYSIS
MALIGNANT HYPOTHERMIA
HOPE IN THE EAST
AGILITY IN HEALTH CARE
A SHIP CALLED HOPE
THE NURSE MANAGERS PROBLEM SOLVER
12 KEYS FOR LIVING
THE NAME OF THE GAME
PRINCIPLES OF MICRO ECONOMICS
PRINCIPLES OF MACRO ECONOMICS
FINANCIAL FIRST AID
THE COMMUNITY OF THE FUTURE
THE REINVENTORS FIELD BOOK
SISTER POWER
ON WOMEN TURNING 70
PILGRIM HEART
THE FRANCHISE FRAUD
TASTE VS FAT
WEIGH LESS LIVE LONGER
ESSENTIALS OF NUTRITION AND DIET THERAPY
WITH THE PHOENIX RISING
CREATING EXCELLENCE IN CRISIS CARE
CLEAN START
THE PROMISE OF GROUP THERAPY
STANDARDS OF FLIGHT NURSING PRACTICE
POSITIVE NUTRITION
RAPID GUIDE TO HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS
TEXTBOOK OF MEDICAL IMAGING
WHY WE AGE
.................................................. ............

You know this was posted to Bash the school (SJSM ) before I attended Basic Sci there and can tell you yeah there are useless books but also there are 3 different copies of the MERK Manual, Surgery Text Book, Advanced Neurology Atlas ( Used it During Neuro), Cardiology text Book, Theraputics Text book, and some Nursing texts also, there are a few more but I do not remember the titles, also there are Premed books there like Chemistry and Physics, yeah some useless books but also some decent ones too. By the way most students could care less about the books anyway it's just something to bash about IMO, What matters are the Core Books, PPTs and the internet. I find little time to do much else then study and read Robbins, its almost impossible to finish Robbins within the confines of Basic Sci, Try it! And Robbins is considered one of the best Path Books out there.

One last Comment, what serious student goes to medical school and does not buy their own text books? You have money to Drink and play spend some on the Darn text books and quit Whining!

[lswiltshire]

My friend, if only you could visit the Science Library at UWI Mona, or even the hospital libraries in the outlying territories where medicine is taught at UWI, you will know what books ought to be able for premed and Basic Sciences You will know that the few useful books you cite in the SJMS library were insufficient.

In the bogus school at which I taught in the Cooks last year there were perhaps 300 books but ALL WERE RELEVANT! At least they had that and a proper building for the sudents.

Also as you admit, the list above was accurate!

[MYMD]

My friend, if only you could visit the Science Library at UWI Mona, or even the hospital libraries in the outlying territories where medicine is taught at UWI, you will know what books ought to be able for premed and Basic Sciences You will know that the few useful books you cite in the SJMS library were insufficient.

In the bogus school at which I taught in the Cooks last year there were perhaps 300 books but ALL WERE RELEVANT! At least they had that and a proper building for the sudents.

Also as you admit, the list above was accurate!

No not without going back to Bonaire and then listing the Books, but I cannot deny that there were some useless books.

I would like to know why Books are sooooo important when of late Computerized teaching and information has been made the new standard, in fact during the ACCM visits one of the reviewer's told me that they could care less about the books that the internet access and student access to it was 1000% more important since the information is fresh there, and that the standard texts are fine to read but get the latest from the web. SJSM does not give the students any free access to some of the pay sites as other schools do, that is where I would like to see the emphasis placed, books are last century.

How do you look up many different things?
the web
How do you find out the latest breakthroughs
the web
How do you get answers from all over the world on Treatments?
the web
Physicians have internet access why?
So they can find the info Fast and talk to other Physicians
How do you study?
Kaplan Web
Web-Path
other web based

See the web is so important

[lswiltshire]

A wise student reads widely Sir! Thats why you need libraries.
Also you have to be careful what you read on the internet.
Students can not always discern what they need to read from a search on the internet.
Good teachers often sift out the best stuff from the net.

You are welcomed to your opinions, but understand that there are others who have also been students.

You cite Robbins. This is a very difficult book for many students to read. A good school will have a list of alternatives in its library.

[DrShikima]

A wise student reads widely Sir! Thats why you need libraries.
Also you have to be careful what you read on the internet.
Students can not always discern what they need to read from a search on the internet.
Good teachers often sift out the best stuff from the net.

You are welcomed to your opinions, but understand that there are others who have also been students.

You cite Robbins. This is a very difficult book for many students to read. A good school will have a list of alternatives in its library.

Wouldn't a good school hire a pathologist to teach Robbin's difficult passages to the students?
:-devil

[finishingfifth]

Wouldn't a good school hire a pathologist to teach Robbin's difficult passages to the students?
:-devil
Yeah a good school would, these guys are waxing poetic about lousy schools

[MYMD]

A wise student reads widely Sir! Thats why you need libraries.
Also you have to be careful what you read on the internet.
Students can not always discern what they need to read from a search on the internet.
Good teachers often sift out the best stuff from the net.

You are welcomed to your opinions, but understand that there are others who have also been students.

You cite Robbins. This is a very difficult book for many students to read. A good school will have a list of alternatives in its library.

I found Robbins very straight Forward, and Yes a Pathologist taught me at SJSM. She had been a practicing Pathologist too.

I use Robbins now but also have an internal Medicine Book.

I really have a different opinion on the freshness of the info though,

Look a book takes a few years to compile and then publish so a book published in 2007 may have been compiled in 2004-2006 then gone through editing and finally published, so a lot of stuff from 2007 and on will not be there, as well as other material, old worn out info and things not done any more may be in the texts....
Besides you think XYZ Medical School is going to spend thousands replacing the Books they just bought last year cause newer ones just came out? True some new books are bought but in reality many older ones will be there. I have visted the medical Library here where I am and a lot of books where from the 80s and 90s so that does me little good.


I like the most up to date stuff so I find my texts and then the web the best combination and many many Docs out here and educators seem to agree.

[lswiltshire]

Friend, I dont discount the web, because I use it freely in my preparation. So I do understand your point about the web.

In fact by stressing the web you assist my point. When I go on the web looking for material I look for many different sources so that I can find from the most simple to the increasingly difficult up to the point where the info is not necessary for students at that point in thier development.

There should similarly be books in your library to reflect this gamut to facilitate learning by the student. Im not school bashing now, Im talking about facilitating the student.

Ideally the school should hire pathologists and others to teach, but I have found that getting good pathologists in the islands seems to be difficult for many of the offshore schools.

Many students find Robbins difficult. All I am saying is that there should be other books available. I dont think that I disagree with you at all.

I am also a theologian. I check my commentaries, and I still buy books but I also have my web sources to which I go to check difficult texts.

[MYMD]

Friend, I dont discount the web, because I use it freely in my preparation. So I do understand your point about the web.

In fact by stressing the web you assist my point. When I go on the web looking for material I look for many different sources so that I can find from the most simple to the increasingly difficult up to the point where the info is not necessary for students at that point in thier development.

There should similarly books in your library to reflect this gamut to facilitate learning by the student. Im not school bashing now, Im talking about facilitating the student.

Ideally the school should hire pathologists and others to teach, but I have found that getting good pathologists in the islands seems to be difficult for the offshore schools.

Yea that is true and I know the Pathologist who taught me is gone :( So please, I agree with a lot of things said.

These schools should ramp up on some of these things and it's not that hard to do. SJSM has had enough time to fix some of these things no doubt.

[lswiltshire]

I find a lot of cheap alternatives on Alibris .com.

What I like to do in books or on the web is to seek that other diagram or illustration or slide that might just help get over a concept to the student. Some times it means a little repitition, but the illustration that hits student 1 might not hit student 2 . Of course the best chaps will get it anyhow. But I just like to look out for the students. I love to spend time with the students and think of the difficulties I had as a student.

I like to think also about how I can help the weaker students, because after 33 years I know that the brightest students dont make the best doctors. Often the slower students are more thorough.

MYMD I agree that the very new stuff will be found on the web, but a lot of the old stuff in the books is still good. Certain things dont change. Certain concepts dont change. But like you I look on the net for the new stuff to give my students.

[MYMD]

I find a lot of cheap alternatives on Alibris .com.

What I like to do in books or on the web is to seek that other diagram or illustration or slide that might just help get over a concept to the student. Some times it means a little repitition, but the illustration that hits student 1 might not hit student 2 . Of course the best chaps will get it anyhow. But I just like to look out for the students. I love to spend time with the students and think of the difficulties I had as a student.

I like to think also about how I can help the weaker students, because after 33 years I know that the brightest students dont make the best doctors. Often the slower students are more thorough.



MYMD I agree that the very new stuff will be found on the web, but a lot of the old stuff in the books is still good. Certain things dont change. Certain concepts dont change. But like you I look on the net for the new stuff to give my students.

Yea I just picked up a like new copy of *****'s internal med for 13.50! Yeah and 3.99 ship LOL true and all my Books for clinical were between 4 and 6 bucks used! Thats a load of cash saved.

Abes books is another good site.

[lswiltshire]

Though we have gone off topic a bit, I will support what you say by a few experiences.

A few years ago I was about to teach glycolysis, and I went searching for something new online. I found a site from a chap in Leeds who said to know the pathway [ as was the case in his time and mine] is the least of the problem. We now have to look at little nuances about each reaction.

Then I was asked to fill in teaching some Path for a chap. He tore out the Kidney chapter in Robbins for me to teach. Being neither a nephrologist or pathologist, I found that yes they were certain things that had not changed at all; the rest was like a Latin unseen! LOL

Thanks for the source Abes books

[dt]

CMU will stay and provide valuable education services if you like it or not, therefore I think you shouldn't waist your time bashing the school and rather hit the books.


I cant fault this statement especially if the students have money and time to spare. I think the lessons learned would be invaluable and will make them more cautious in life (maybe??).

[rokshana]

jeez I thought Robbins was a pretty decent read as pathology books go- now Rubin and Farber- THAT'S a slow read!!!

while, yes treatment and such (and maybe immunology) are constantly changing, there are some things that are the same now as they were 20, 30, 40 years ago- i mean, auer rods are distinctive to AML- they were 10 years ago as far as i know.

secondary sources and review books are good, but 1st source material is important for students to read and learn from- they need to build the foundation of knowledge first

but, really, i would rather be going to a school that has IMED listing an not one single book in its library than a gizillion books and no charter and IMED listing - I can buy the books.can't buy that charter!

[finishingfifth]

jeez I thought Robbins was a pretty decent read as pathology books go- now Rubin and Farber- THAT'S a slow read!!!

while, yes treatment and such (and maybe immunology) are constantly changing, there are some things that are the same now as they were 20, 30, 40 years ago- i mean, auer rods are distinctive to AML M3- they were 10 years ago as far as i know.

secondary sources and review books are good, but 1st source material is important for students to read and learn from- they need to build the foundation of knowledge first

but, really, i would rather be going to a school that has IMED listing an not one single book in its library than a gizillion books and no charter and IMED listing - I can buy the books.can't buy that charter!

Yeah, apparently CMU cant buy a charter either. They had to borrow one from CIU.

[studentdoctobe]

I was advised by the students, staff, teachers not to spend to much time on VMD, since its pointless. Now I see they are right.
I have explained numerous times:
1. CMU doesn’t need the IMED listing until we certify students for USMLE, which was proved in the previous posts
2. The charter of CIU is good enough to provide medical education on the island and to issue MD degrees /if you don’t believe, check with the Ministry of Education/
3. Our charter will be issued by the end of the month, so finally all of those "valuable" posters /students and agents of other schools/ will finally go away.
4. There is no need to postpone any semesters, since CMU is totally legal on the island of Curacao /if you don’t believe, please check with the Government of Curacao/
5. CMU foundation guarantees the MedLoan so we are absolutely sure that our students will become qualified physicians, otherwise they won’t be able to repay the loan.
6. I won’t reply to any other posts regarding charter and IMED, its just worthless. You'll see the results soon.
7. I have more important things to do that reply over and over again to the same black PR. I’m still available to answer all genuine questions.

CMU will stay and provide valuable education services if you like it or not, therefore I think you shouldn't waist your time bashing the school and rather hit the books.

AND

http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/140933-congratulations.html
posted 08-10-2007, 07:42 PM
The charter was signed by the Governor of Curacao today. I just talked to the Administration and they informed my about it. I also called the Government of Curacao and they confirmed the CMU charter was issued today. They said they would provide the original to the school Monday morning. If some agents still don’t believe than wait till Monday and call the Office of the Governor.
It seems like everyone there is celebrating. The SGA organized a party tonight.
SO NOW WHAT DO ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO BASHED CMU HAVE TO SAY?
Mrs. Rokshana: "I'll bet you a shiny EC that they don't get it!!!"
Where is my shiny EC now?

Congratulations again and keep up the good work!!!!!


RL kindly clarify these posts, and try not to throw in anything else that has nothing to do with the charter and what date it was or will be issued, i.e. DO NOT GO OFF POINT.
They claimed to have spoken to you (school administrator) and you informed them of it.

[rokshana]

Yeah, apparently CMU cant buy a charter either. They had to borrow one from CIU.


OMG!! too funny!!!

[finishingfifth]

My brain is so fried from step2 questions that I think it is making me beligerent, but somewhat funny to rokshana.

[rokshana]

My brain is so fried from step2 questions that I think it is making me beligerent, but somewhat funny to rokshana.


my brain is fried from studying for step II - and i still have a week and a half!!

[finishingfifth]

I am taking it on wednesday, gettin around 65% on Usmle world. I hope its good enough. I dont even care about doing well anymore, i just want to pass so I can never deal with this again.

[MYMD]

I am taking it on wednesday, gettin around 65% on Usmle world. I hope its good enough. I dont even care about doing well anymore, i just want to pass so I can never deal with this again. AMEN!!!!!!!:)

[teratos]

Please Stay On Topic!!

[finishingfifth]

sorry, like i said, brain is fried

[byteme]

Dear Mr. *********,

These are from two posts of yours, both dated 4th August, 2007:

You need to stop and wait till next Friday to see documents regarding IMED listing.

Because CMU is fully legit school and eligible for listing in WHO and IMED as any other Caribbean medical school. As I stated in the previous posts, the situation has been clarified now and within one week we'll post official documents confirming our listing with those two agencies.

This is from your post of 10th August, 2007 (the "next Friday" in question):

There was no promise of IMED/WHO listing for today. If Im wrong please provide a post that shows this promise.

This is from your post of 23rd August, 2007:

3. Our charter will be issued by the end of the month

Every week has a different "next Friday", and every month has a different "end of the month", so essentially, deadlines set in these terms don't mean much, do they?

Would you please provide a specific date as a deadline for the time frame you provided in that last quote?

Thank you

[stephew]

so looks like CMU decided to respond here on vmd in spite of the assertion earlier that they would'nt.

[stateofequilibrium]

so looks like CMU decided to respond here on vmd in spite of the assertion earlier that they would'nt.

I think it's pretty much safe to say that most of the people that would apply to CMU are the type that have no prospects (or trying to escape from somewhere), or don't know about the existence of ValueMD or other offshore schools.

[rlewkowski]

I think it's pretty much safe to say that most of the people that would apply to CMU are the type that have no prospects (or trying to escape from somewhere), or don't know about the existence of ValueMD or other offshore schools.

I agree, all our students and applicants are under the impression that CMU is the only med school on the planet.

[stephew]

I agree, all our students and applicants are under the impression that CMU is the only med school on the planet.

thank goodness vmd is here to educate about the issues surrounding choosing a med school

[Scott1981]

I agree, all our students and applicants are under the impression that CMU is the only med school on the planet.

you would love to keep it that way, wouldnt you? j/k ;)

on another note, can you please name a single medical school that opened up without a charter or used another school's non-medical charter that is still open today?

please dont ignore my question or deflect it. its a simple question. name a school.

[rlewkowski]

you would love to keep it that way, wouldnt you? j/k ;)

on another note, can you please name a single medical school that opened up without a charter or used another school's non-medical charter that is still open today?

please dont ignore my question or deflect it. its a simple question. name a school.

It doesn’t matter if any other school opened with or without a charter, one school opened in a hotel room at the beginning /SGU/ and now is the best one. So it’s just a matter of time to show changes and improvements. I cant even imagine Rokshana and others bashing SGU when it started, now she is a proud student of it. I’d love to see her and you all guys posting on our forum in a few months.

[stateofequilibrium]

It doesn’t matter if any other school opened with or without a charter, one school opened in a hotel room at the beginning /SGU/ and now is the best one. So it’s just a matter of time to show changes and improvements. I cant even imagine Rokshana and others bashing SGU when it started, now she is a proud student of it. I’d love to see her and you all guys posting on our forum in a few months.

You are comparing apples with oranges and trying to divert the argument.

Housing/location of the school has NOTHING to do with the Charter.

Furthermore, SGU opened decades ago under much different times and circumstances. As I said in an earlier post, you are opening up a school in the information age, where facts/inquiries/information can be queried and transmitted extremely fast. Today calls for different tactics and transperancy than whatever SGU may have used back then.

[emt036]

It doesn’t matter if any other school opened with or without a charter, one school opened in a hotel room at the beginning /SGU/ and now is the best one. So it’s just a matter of time to show changes and improvements. I cant even imagine Rokshana and others bashing SGU when it started, now she is a proud student of it. I’d love to see her and you all guys posting on our forum in a few months.

And deflected... Big suprise. No, the issues are not the facilities with which the school started, but if the school had a charter (i.e. the legal and moral right to hold classes) before instruction began. Since the founder of SGU is a JD, I am pretty sure he understood the implications of starting a school without the legal right to do so, and what the ramifications of not having a charter would be. So again, can you point to any medical school still in operation that does not have a charter?

[stateofequilibrium]

So again, can you point to any medical school still in operation that does not have a charter?

I can, CMU.

[emt036]

I can, CMU.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, SOE. I meant any school other than CMU. :-D

[stephew]

It doesn’t matter if any other school opened with or without a charter, one school opened in a hotel room at the beginning /SGU/ and now is the best one. So it’s just a matter of time to show changes and improvements. I cant even imagine Rokshana and others bashing SGU when it started, now she is a proud student of it. I’d love to see her and you all guys posting on our forum in a few months.

careful what you wish for. but im gratified that you admit now that rok is an sgu student and have stopped accusing her of being an admin from another school.

[Haiku]

It doesn’t matter if any other school opened with or without a charter, one school opened in a hotel room at the beginning /SGU/ and now is the best one.

careful what you wish for. but im gratified that you admit now that rok is an sgu student and have stopped accusing her of being an admin from another school.

and don't forget thanking RL for the free plug for SGU!!!

[rokshana]

It doesn’t matter if any other school opened with or without a charter, one school opened in a hotel room at the beginning /SGU/ and now is the best one. So it’s just a matter of time to show changes and improvements. I cant even imagine Rokshana and others bashing SGU when it started, now she is a proud student of it. I’d love to see her and you all guys posting on our forum in a few months.

a chip and a chair, my friend...a hotel and a charter...totally trumps your borrowed, shared, appropriated, whatever and NO charter....

i know i said in some other post, that 30 years ago if i had been looking at going off shore,(i would have been doogie howser but nonetheless) i wouldn't have been as pioneering as those before me but I am grateful that there were those that were. I am also grateful that the head of MY school is a smart and shrewd businessman- he saw a need, decided to capitalize on it and made sure that steps were taken to make sgu recognized by the many hospitals, residencies, and medical boards as a legit school- how you may ask? He got the blessings of the grenadian gov't - and made sure that they WROTE IT DOWN...on a charter.

[finishingfifth]

It doesn’t matter if any other school opened with or without a charter, one school opened in a hotel room at the beginning /SGU/ and now is the best one. So it’s just a matter of time to show changes and improvements. I cant even imagine Rokshana and others bashing SGU when it started, now she is a proud student of it. I’d love to see her and you all guys posting on our forum in a few months.

Big deal. Harvard started with 400 books and a room centuries ago, that doesnt mean that any place with 400 books is now on par with or will become Harvard. I mean look at Harvard now, it is commonly reffered to as the SGU of new england. BTW, many people bashed SGU,AUC, and Ross when they started. But over time with the proper certifications they gained respect, something CMU has not done. In a few months, you may have IMED (you may be closed), you may have a charter, but the facts remain. You started a med school without going through the proper channels. Your current activity is criminal. I contacted ECFMG, as did indr, and they have no idea who you are. As I sit and study for step 2, I wonder if the poor souls at CMU wil ever have the chance to do the same.

[studentdoctobe]

It doesn’t matter if any other school opened with or without a charter, one school opened in a hotel room at the beginning /SGU/ and now is the best one. So it’s just a matter of time to show changes and improvements. I cant even imagine Rokshana and others bashing SGU when it started, now she is a proud student of it. I’d love to see her and you all guys posting on our forum in a few months.
Convenient retort! because Caribbean Medical University (CMU) DID NOT OPEN WITH A CHARTER, which is illegal!

[stephew]

i am awaiting for someone to say with all seriousness that ergo cmu is just like harvard.

btw- I want credit for coining the "SGU of new england" phrase. I have it on a coffee mug.

[quote=finishingfifth;659316]Big deal. Harvard started with 400 books and a room centuries ago, that doesnt mean that any place with 400 books is now on par with or will become Harvard. I mean look at Harvard now, it is commonly reffered to as the SGU of new england. quote]

[finishingfifth]

i am awaiting for someone to say with all seriousness that ergo cmu is just like harvard.

btw- I want credit for coining the "SGU of new england" phrase. I have it on a coffee mug.

[quote=finishingfifth;659316]Big deal. Harvard started with 400 books and a room centuries ago, that doesnt mean that any place with 400 books is now on par with or will become Harvard. I mean look at Harvard now, it is commonly reffered to as the SGU of new england. quote]

Yes, I should have put a footnote in there. It is your phrase. See RL, when you copy from someone else, you have to give them credit. So come on, lets see
* from SGU and univ of Utah website
on you website.

[Scott1981]

It doesn’t matter if any other school opened with or without a charter, one school opened in a hotel room at the beginning /SGU/ and now is the best one. So it’s just a matter of time to show changes and improvements. I cant even imagine Rokshana and others bashing SGU when it started, now she is a proud student of it. I’d love to see her and you all guys posting on our forum in a few months.

RL,

lets try this again. im not asking whether you feel it matters or not. i am not asking you that. so lets try again.

Can you please name a med school still open that opened without a charter or used another non-medical school's charter to operate that is still open today?

please, no commentary. you can do that in another post. just name a school. i dont care about your thoughts on the question.

if you cant name a school, then say so. you make yourself look really bad when you act like a politician and spin/deflect the question. just answer the question flat out. its not hard to do.

[stateofequilibrium]

i am awaiting for someone to say with all seriousness that ergo cmu is just like harvard.



CMU is just like Harvard. In that it has desks, walls, and chairs.

[Scott1981]

now, in reference to RL's quote about SGU's beginning. a medical school located in a hotel with a charter is eligible to be listed in IMED and their students can take the USMLE. Those students can eventually become physicians in the US.

a school in a 100 million dollar palace without a charter is not eligible for IMED listing. their students cannot take the USMLE and cannot become physicians in the US.

so, if i was a prospective student and wanted to become a doctor in the US. which school would i pick? obviously the school that can actually allow me to achieve my goal. CMU is the outlier in the spectrum of caribbean schools from the top to the bottom. heck, even iuhs even has a charter.

[finishingfifth]

Well, it doesnt matter because CMU's website still claims ECFMG. ECFMG/Imed disagee however.

[lswiltshire]

It was asked
Can you please name a med school still open that opened without a charter or used another non-medical school's charter to operate that is still open today?

The correct answer is NO!

SPSOM/IMSA tried it lasty year but is now closed.