Future of CMU

[rlewkowski]

As promised, the recognition of the Government of Curacao was signed on Friday, August 10th. The document will be published tomorrow on our website. An official letter to IMED and WHO will be issued within few weeks and it will be published on CMU's website as well.

Upon consolation with the Government Officials, the Graduation Years and Year Instruction Began will be posted on IMED website as 2007, therefore all scaring posts, submitted by our "friends" on ValueMD about courses not being counted, are misleading and totally incorrect.

Despite all negative messages on the forum, we are happy and proud, that our current students decided to support the school at its beginning and that another 32 students are joining CMU next semester. We won’t forget it and will always provide help on their way to become qualified physicians.
Our IT Department will be updating our website to remove all similarities to SGU's site; however we definitely want to follow a good example of this prestigious university. We shall apologize for any inconvenience that may have caused any potential students.

I want to inform about another ACGME approved 14 hospitals /3 in Michigan, 10 in Ohio and 1 in Florida/, where our student will be able to complete all core and elective rotations. Since our first batch of students will qualify to start Clinical Science Program in early 2008, all our rotations slots are available now; therefore we encourage students having problems with their rotations, to contact our CR Dept. about possibilities of transferring into our program.

To all our “friends” on ValueMD:
I’d like to give you a valuable piece of advice. I suggest concentrating on your course of study rather than wasting your time bashing our school and trying to stop its further growth. CMU was, is and will be there getting better no matter what you write.

Finally I wish good luck to all our students on your finals next week.

[iaustudent06]

As promised, the recognition of the Government of Curacao was signed on Friday, August 10th. The document will be published tomorrow on our website. An official letter to IMED and WHO will be issued within few weeks and it will be published on CMU's website as well.

I think everyone was waiting for IMED listing, since you said it was going to be listed, last week.
http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/140477-letter-new-sga-president-fall-2007-a.html

Especially, you said all documents were already finished, weeks ago...
http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/136679-cmus-faculty-members-5.html#post622786
http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/137573-i-need-some-information-admin.html#post623301


To all our “friends” on ValueMD:
I’d like to give you a valuable piece of advice. I suggest concentrating on your course of study rather than wasting your time bashing our school and trying to stop its further growth. CMU was, is and will be there getting better no matter what you write.

At least no one from the "friends" asking for necessary credentials were banned...
http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/140933-congratulations.html
I don't believe asking to prove items is bashing... It hurts all schools when false claims are made.

Maybe time would be saved if someone did not jump the gun and/or make up having the credentials and paperwork, all of which has still not been proven yet.

Once again, maybe tomorrow it will be in the paper. Even though, a certain banned member claimed that they called the government and everything checked out...
http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/139525-how-many-students-fall-2007-a-4.html#post649547

[dt]

See http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/140743-countdown-friday-august-10th-2007-a.html#post652025

If the charter was signed as stated on your website, what was signed on August 10th?



I also think that just because the IMED website will say 2007, I dont think it will be retroactive to Jan 1st, 2007. I would think that within IMED/WHO database and internal paperwork they will have the exact date of charter that they will share with licensing boards. So, come licensing time will courses taken before the official government chartered date count? And why would medical courses taken under Caribbean International University (CIU) count towards the CMU medical degree when CIU is not accredited by Curacao as a medical school?


What IT department? Is your IT person that one person sitting in the closet busily copying other websites? Dont you think you should personally go through every single webpage of your site and remove all errors/lies?


You know, if your lies werent so blatant, I wouldnt care. But, you are saying that come Sept, 32 people dont care that you lied. That's good for the school and you.



As promised, the recognition of the Government of Curacao was signed on Friday, August 10th. The document will be published tomorrow on our website. An official letter to IMED and WHO will be issued within few weeks and it will be published on CMU's website as well.

Upon consolation with the Government Officials, the Graduation Years and Year Instruction Began will be posted on IMED website as 2007, therefore all scaring posts, submitted by our "friends" on ValueMD about courses not being counted, are misleading and totally incorrect.

Despite all negative messages on the forum, we are happy and proud, that our current students decided to support the school at its beginning and that another 32 students are joining CMU next semester. We won’t forget it and will always provide help on their way to become qualified physicians.
Our IT Department will be updating our website to remove all similarities to SGU's site; however we definitely want to follow a good example of this prestigious university. We shall apologize for any inconvenience that may have caused any potential students.

I want to inform about another ACGME approved 14 hospitals /3 in Michigan, 10 in Ohio and 1 in Florida/, where our student will be able to complete all core and elective rotations. Since our first batch of students will qualify to start Clinical Science Program in early 2008, all our rotations slots are available now; therefore we encourage students having problems with their rotations, to contact our CR Dept. about possibilities of transferring into our program.

To all our “friends” on ValueMD:
I’d like to give you a valuable piece of advice. I suggest concentrating on your course of study rather than wasting your time bashing our school and trying to stop its further growth. CMU was, is and will be there getting better no matter what you write.

Finally I wish good luck to all our students on your finals next week.

[teratos]

Wow, I'm just speechless. :shock:

[DOCplucinski]

nevermind.....

[rlewkowski]

I also think that just because the IMED website will say 2007, I dont think it will be retroactive to Jan 1st, 2007. I would think that within IMED/WHO database and internal paperwork they will have the exact date of charter that they will share with licensing boards. And why would medical courses taken under Caribbean International University (CIU) count towards the CMU medical degree when CIU is not accredited by Curacao as a medical school?


What you are writing is incorrect, and thats what we call bashing, since without checking you post misleading and false information.

There are no internatl paperwork between the Government and the ECFMG regarding the date the charter was signed. Just go to their website and read:

"A medical school is listed in IMED after FAIMER receives confirmation from the Ministry of Health or other appropriate agency that the medical school is recognized by the Ministry or other agency. FAIMER also updates the International Medical Education Directory as information about medical schools is received from Ministries of Health or other appropriate agencies.

The following information is available in IMED:
Medical school name
Name of the university with which the medical school is affiliated (if applicable)
Medical school address, telephone/fax numbers and email address
Medical school website address
Former official names of the medical school (if applicable)
Degree title (title of the medical degree currently awarded by the medical school or university)
Graduation years, which are calendar years the medical school has been recognized by the government agency in the country where the school is located. Graduation years for many schools begin in 1953, although individual medical schools may have been recognized prior to that date.
Year instruction began
Language of instruction
Duration of the curriculum
Entrance examination requirement
Eligibility of foreign (non-national) students
Total enrollment"

And regarding CIU not having a permit to operate medical school is another incorrect informaton. CIU obtained the permit in year 2001. Will be posted on our website today as well.

[finishingfifth]

There are 2 possibilities here : 1) CMU admin simply is too inept to understand our questions and concerns, therby perceiving them as "bashing" OR 2) They are a bunch of money hungry people with no ethics who are side-stepping serious issues. Either way the new students have been duped, those of us who are affiliated with reputable schools feel a need to warn potential students. BTW, lying and stealing theU of Utah's and SGU's website is not an inconvenience, its plagiarism.

[dt]

What you are writing is incorrect, and thats what we call bashing, since without checking you post misleading and false information.

There are no internatl paperwork between the Government and the ECFMG regarding the date the charter was signed. Just go to their website and read:

"A medical school is listed in IMED after FAIMER receives confirmation from the Ministry of Health or other appropriate agency that the medical school is recognized by the Ministry or other agency. FAIMER also updates the International Medical Education Directory as information about medical schools is received from Ministries of Health or other appropriate agencies.

...

And regarding CIU not having a permit to operate medical school is another incorrect informaton. CIU obtained the permit in year 2001. Will be posted on our website today as well.


Well then, 3 questions...

1. Dont you think after receiving your application and paperwork to list on IMED that FAIMER would then turn around and confirm the info with appropriate Ministries of the government? If you dont think so, then anyone can pretend to run a medical school by sending to FAIMER a fake package of info.


2. Do you really think that IMED would list all the nitty gritty details they have publicly and that what they listed is what they only share with the licensing board? If you do, then, uhh... wow!


3. IF CIU had the charter to operate a med school since 2001, how come it has never been listed in IMED or WHO after all this time? It would be interesting to see the 'permit' of CIU later today. Is this 'permit' similar to the one that you had have since April 7th of this year?

[stephew]

Reminder to all users: Terms of Service (http://www.valuemd.com/disclaimer.php) include no flaming, insults or foul language. Multiple accounts. particularly to troll or masquerade as another user to "agree" with yourself is a serious violation as well as ethical lapse and will be treated as such.

[rlewkowski]

Well then, 3 questions...

1. Dont you think after receiving your application and paperwork to list on IMED that FAIMER would then turn around and confirm the info with appropriate Ministries of the government? If you dont think so, then anyone can pretend to run a medical school by sending to FAIMER a fake package of info.


2. Do you really think that IMED would list all the nitty gritty details they have publicly and that what they listed is what they only share with the licensing board? If you do, then, uhh... wow!


3. IF CIU had the charter to operate a med school since 2001, how come it has never been listed in IMED or WHO after all this time? It would be interesting to see the 'permit' of CIU later today. Is this 'permit' similar to the one that you had have since April 7th of this year?

1. It’s clear that you don’t know the procedure. It’s not the CMU that sends the application. There is no application. The Ministry of Education sends information about the school to ECFMG and they have to enlist the school based on that recognition.
2. What other information do they share?
3. CIU never started medical program therefore they haven’t requested the Ministry of Education to inform ECFMG about the permit. There will be a proof of your misleading posts today on our website.

[stephew]

There will be a proof of your misleading posts today on our website.

youre going to post what people have written about cmu from vmd on your website?

[dt]

1. It’s clear that you don’t know the procedure. It’s not the CMU that sends the application. There is no application. The Ministry of Education sends information about the school to ECFMG and they have to enlist the school based on that recognition.
2. What other information do they share?
3. CIU never started medical program therefore they haven’t requested the Ministry of Education to inform ECFMG about the permit. There will be a proof of your misleading posts today on our website.


1. You're right, I dont know the complete protocol involved. But I did have the impression that the government initiates the listing with IMED and WHO. And as you stated in #3 above, the government does not initiate the listing unless asked by the school. (Is that right? Dont some governments do that automatically without being asked by the school?)

And you are saying that IMED, after receiving a request to list, would not then turn around and ask for confirmation? In Curacao, from St. Martinus website About Caribbean Medical Schools (http://www.martinus.edu/index.php?Content__state=About&tabset1__tab=5) , it looks like both Ministry of Education and Ministry of Health are involved.

2. Take a look at St. Martinus. Look at the ECFMG letter. Doesnt it ask for more info, signature samples, diploma samples, etc? Also from the Charter letter, it looks like the exact date and the ministries involved.

3. Okay, I'll look forward to seeing both CIU's charter letter (and yours) from the Curacao later today on your website.

[stateofequilibrium]

3. Okay, I'll look forward to seeing both CIU's charter letter (and yours) from the Curacao later today on your website.

Just make sure it says CIU or CMU and not SGU. :D:D

[rokshana]

1. It’s clear that you don’t know the procedure. It’s not the CMU that sends the application. There is no application. The Ministry of Education sends information about the school to ECFMG and they have to enlist the school based on that recognition.
2. What other information do they share?
3. CIU never started medical program therefore they haven’t requested the Ministry of Education to inform ECFMG about the permit. There will be a proof of your misleading posts today on our website.

you know it fine and dandy that dt doesn't know the complete procedure, but its obvious YOU don't know it either and that is just wrong!!!


I have two words for you Saint Christopher- for those who have been on vmd for even a little while know what this exactly means and it is the path that i see your school going (but at least they didn't plagarize a bunch of websites to start their little school).

[finishingfifth]

1. It’s clear that you don’t know the procedure. It’s not the CMU that sends the application. There is no application. The Ministry of Education sends information about the school to ECFMG and they have to enlist the school based on that recognition.
2. What other information do they share?
3. CIU never started medical program therefore they haven’t requested the Ministry of Education to inform ECFMG about the permit. There will be a proof of your misleading posts today on our website.

Really? CMU has the audacity to call someone else misleading. You guys have some pretty big cojones on ya!

[DrShikima]

you know it fine and dandy that dt doesn't know the complete procedure, but its obvious YOU don't know it either and that is just wrong!!!


I have two words for you Saint Christopher- for those who have been on vmd for even a little while know what this exactly means and it is the path that i see your school going (but at least they didn't plagarize a bunch of websites to start their little school).


Your pretty correct there Rokshana. Good insight and nice red lettering! :twisted:

[rokshana]

:shock::shock::shock::shock:DANG!!!!! is that the 1st time a school offical has been permanently banned from vmd????:shock::shock::shock::shock:

[finishingfifth]

LOL, the only way he could get positive responses for CMU was via multiple accounts. Its expected though, these guys have a history posting fraudulent stuff on the net.

[MYMD]

the advertising is gone too

[Scott1981]

i personally think this forum should remain open even though VMD clearly distanced themselves from this plece. from all the posts and research in deconstructing this place, potential students will have at least some info to learn that there are other real viable schools out there and this is not one of them. actually, there is a lot of great information about IMED, ECFMG, and charters scattered throughout CMU's forum when we were making a case against this place.

[byteme]

Is it just me, or does this post of RL's get funnier every time you look at it?

"THE BOGUS ONES SORT OF MAKE THE ONES THAT ARE REALLY HONESTLY TRYING HARD TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE LOOK BADLY."

That’s exactly what is happening to us. We’re trying hard to make a difference, and still look badly

[stateofequilibrium]

Is it just me, or does this post of RL's gets funnier every time you look at it?

In context, yes.. yes it does.

[DOCplucinski]

:shock::shock::shock::shock:DANG!!!!! is that the 1st time a school offical has been permanently banned from vmd????:shock::shock::shock::shock:
i haven't been on VMD for a year yet, but i do believe it's a VMD first

[Phrozen]

Wow... I'm speechless.

[MDXRS22]

WOW!!!!
The mods don't play here. ;)
I have been here for a few years and never seen that before as well.

[DOCplucinski]

WOW!!!!
The mods don't play here. ;)
I have been here for a few years and never seen that before as well.
"school officials" must follow the same TOS that users including moderators follow

[DrShikima]

Huzzah! I'm glad to see a school official being squelched for being belligerent.

[MDXRS22]

"school officials" must follow the same TOS that users including moderators follow
I am pleased to see that same standards apply to all and all must abide by the TOS.

[rokshana]

Huzzah! I'm glad to see a school official being squelched for being belligerent.

eh belligerent won't get you thrown out but being fraudulent evidently will.

but i agree with scott - if the next step is to remove this forum- i say it should be left in place- prospective students need to see something other than just the cmu website

[teratos]

Huzzah! I'm glad to see a school official being squelched for being belligerent.

He was not banned for being belligerent.

[teratos]

eh belligerent won't get you thrown out but being fraudulent evidently will.

but i agree with scott - if the next step is to remove this forum- i say it should be left in place- prospective students need to see something other than just the cmu website

No, the forum will stay. I think it is important for people to see what has transpired. Consider it a public service. Anyone doing a search on any Caribbean school will find this site in a very short period of time. It is the busiest forum of it's kind. I think it also has the toughest crowd......:twisted:

[lswiltshire]

CMU seems to be getting the treatment it deserves.

When I heard of its origins, and realized that it was a break off from SJMS, I hoped that the administrator would have used his knowledge of the ills that he had seen and experienced in Bonaire, and that he would have come with a clean act.

Then I noticed on one of their silly videos a face of a student who was on the St Martinus promotional video that came out last year. After CMU stole their website from another school, they allegedly went on the St Martinus campus and offered free housing and scholarships to St Martinus students so that they would defect to their school, in the same way that XUSOM in May 2004 went on the SJMS campus and stole students. .

CMU did this even though they knew they didn’t have a charter or license to teach in Curacao at the time. When these students realized that they had now entered a state of educational decadence, they left CMU. Some, after losing a whole semester, returned home to St Martinus , just like the prodigal son of old, and others went in search of pastures more verdant than those which exist at CME in reality!

Prospective students must learn to listen to the hoary heads of the longtime members of the valueMD forum. When they say look before you leap, you must heed or end up smashed on the rocks.

CMU is a bad disappointment. It is unlikely that this bogus school will last very long. It may have already passed its sell by date, who knows.

[rlewkowski]

"they allegedly went on the St Martinus campus and offered free housing and scholarships to St Martinus students so that they would defect to their school, in the same way that XUSOM in May 2004 went on the SJMS campus and stole students."

First, CMU officials never went to the campus of St. Martinus. In fact, the students and faculty members visited our campus at the open house and decided to transfer.
Second, CMU obtained a license to operate on the island of Curacao and is currently awaiting listing in the IMED.
Third, students who left CMU during the first semester are now coming back after struggling to get their documents from St. Martinus with a support of the local police.

[superhumper]

"
Second, CMU obtained a license to operate on the island of Curacao and is currently awaiting listing in the IMED.:oops:


Hi,

Can we see the license?

SH

[emt036]

I hope this license to which you refer isn't the document posted on CMU's website purporting to be a charter that basically says the Curacao gov't supports the planning phase of opening a new medical school, and that the school admin needs to contact the relevant agencies, such as the departments of Education and Health, before starting a new medical school. This letter was just signed last week, so I wonder if they are aware that classes are being conducted without the proper permits/licenses.

[ironpalm83]

EMT is right. I just checked the school website and it said the governments of N.A. supports the investors decision to start a medical school, provided that the school comply with the necessary requirements to do so. However this is IT. This cannot be the offical charter to start a medical school there. MAN~

[stateofequilibrium]

EMT is right. I just checked the school website and it said the governments of N.A. supports the investors decision to start a medical school, provided that the school comply with the necessary requirements to do so. However this is IT. This cannot be the offical charter to start a medical school there. MAN~

The only charter they have up there belong to CIU. And I should it add it doesn't even have doctor of medicine listed there either at any rate. I'm sorely tempted to open up my own off-shore medical school.

[ironpalm83]

The only charter they have up there belong to CIU. And I should it add it doesn't even have doctor of medicine listed there either at any rate. I'm sorely tempted to open up my own off-shore medical school.

I have been thinking of the same thing. Starting my own off-shore medical school somewhere.. fill the school up with all those doctors from korea and yeah make big bucks there!!!

[emt036]

The only charter they have up there belong to CIU. And I should it add it doesn't even have doctor of medicine listed there either at any rate. I'm sorely tempted to open up my own off-shore medical school.

You don't actually need to open up a medical school - just rent some space, make/copy a flashy website full of "gross exaggerations", pretend to have a charter/ECFMG/IMED/WHO listing (who is going to check anyways), lure some students, and watch the money roll in. You don't even have to worry about pretending to have clinical sites, because none of your students will be eligible to sit for Step I and even start clinicals. :roll:

Note: This is purely hypothetical. This does not resemble any current medical school, and no such inferences should be drawn.

[studentdoctobe]

CMU seems to be getting the treatment it deserves.

When I heard of its origins, and realized that it was a break off from SJMS, I hoped that the administrator would have used his knowledge of the ills that he had seen and experienced in Bonaire, and that he would have come with a clean act.

Then I noticed on one of their silly videos a face of a student who was on the St Martinus promotional video that came out last year. After CMU stole their website from another school, they allegedly went on the St Martinus campus and offered free housing and scholarships to St Martinus students so that they would defect to their school, in the same way that XUSOM in May 2004 went on the SJMS campus and stole students. .

CMU did this even though they knew they didn’t have a charter or license to teach in Curacao at the time. When these students realized that they had now entered a state of educational decadence, they left CMU. Some, after losing a whole semester, returned home to St Martinus , just like the prodigal son of old, and others went in search of pastures more verdant than those which exist at CME in reality!

Prospective students must learn to listen to the hoary heads of the longtime members of the valueMD forum. When they say look before you leap, you must heed or end up smashed on the rocks.

CMU is a bad disappointment. It is unlikely that this bogus school will last very long. It may have already passed its sell by date, who knows.

You are ON POINT with you comments, and it's increasingly nauseating to watch them repeat the same points over and over while AVOIDING the real issues here; that they DO NOT have their ish together, enough to claim they can train future doctors. Bleech!

[DVT]

Third, students who left CMU during the first semester are now coming back after struggling to get their documents from St. Martinus with a support of the local police.

Hi All

This is NOT true.

DVT

[rlewkowski]

Hi All

This is NOT true.

DVT

That is VERY TRUE, and if you dont believe, just check with the students or police, there will be an article in the local newspaper about those practices soon. I'll try to provide a link to it.

[studentdoctobe]

Third, students who left CMU during the first semester are now coming back after struggling to get their documents from St. Martinus with a support of the local police.


Hi All

This is NOT true.

DVT




:crackingup:

:mrgreen:

[lswiltshire]

CMU continues to be a bad disappointment and will get the full treatment it deserves from the valueMD community.

Those of us who graduated from proper medical schools, and those of us who are interested in proper medical schools and the teaching of medicine, must stand up to all schools like this that demonstrate even the slightest suspicion of deception.

CMU recently sneaked into Curacao. From my perch in the USA I informed the St Martinus crowd about its origins. They did not even know that CMU was coming or had come! ONLY A THIEF COMES SILENTLY IN THE NIGHT!

CMU then either employed cheerleaders or encouraged them to blast the supposed glories of their so called school on valueMD ad nauseam et ad infinitum day in and day out. CMU called attention to its self in a way that required perfection in all aspects of its operations. It should not now expect any mercy from the forum.

The more they harped the more we looked. The more we looked the more we observed. Like we realized that their website was copied, that they had only two teachers but were running more than one semester levels.

We realized too that they have no charter and are NOT IMED LISTED! We have caught thier cheif spokesman in lie after lie. What next!

We realized early that CMU was a spin off from SJMS. And those who had any previous experience with SJMS were impressed by the website indication that they were better facilities, and hoped that there would be better all round interest for the students welfare. When I heard of its origins, and realized that it was a break off from SJMS, I hoped that the administrator would have used his knowledge of the ills that he had seen and experienced in Bonaire, and that he would have come with a clean act. But NO. We seem to have a case of Monkey see, Monkey do. Because we still have the same poorly run medical school.

I really don’t believe that both the students and faculty members visited the CMU campus at the open house and decided to transfer. IF they did, they were stupid. Very stupid; as they now realized. St Martinus has now been going 5 years. They have more experience. There are teachers at St Martinus with decades of teaching experience. They are programs that were set up at St Martinus that bore fruit in 2006 with their excellent past rate of 96% including one brilliant student who scored 99%. WHY WOULD YOU THROW AWAY SUCH A TRACK RECORD TO GO SOMEWHERE THAT HAS NO TRACK RECORD BESIDES AN ADMINISTRATOR WHO SPENT YEARS AT SJMS LEARNING HOW TO MISTREAT STUDENTS, STAFF AND EVERYONE IN BETWEEN?


PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS OUGHT TO ABHOR AND REFRAIN FROM WASTING THEIR TIME AND MONEY AT A PLACE LIKE THIS UNTIL IT CAN PROVE ITSELF.


We read that “students who left CMU during the first semester are now coming back after struggling to get their documents from St. Martinus with a support of the local police.” This sounds more like the situation that occurred in Bonaire in 2005 when SJMS students left to go to XUSOM.

QUESTION: WHY SHOULD STUDENTS BE LEAVING YOUR SCHOOL (BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION ) DURING THE FIRST SEMESTER IF YOUR SCHOOL IS SO GOOD?

Seems someone is telling stories here. Someone is telling little lies.

I understand that the students who left St Martinus were MD 1 students, so what documents would they have there that the police would have to help them recover. Certainly they would have copies of documents submitted BEFORE they entered school. Having left during a semester what documents would they need to get from St Martinus?

We know that the students who defected from St Martinus are not seniors, because they just recently had another graduation/white coat ceremony.

CMU is a bad disappointment. It is unlikely that this bogus school will last very long. It may have already passed its sell by date, who knows. We need to keep the pressure on this place and force it to clean up its act quickly. People who boast like they do, and employ cheerleaders like they do, ought to be perfect!

By the way, where are the cheerleaders these days? Sorry. I forgot. They have left CMU now that they have found that ALL THAT GLITTERS IS NOT GOLD!

CMU is about making and displaying silly unprofessional promotional videos; but going to medical school and providing a medical education to seeking students is REALITY!

I again repeat ---- Prospective students must learn to listen to the hoary heads of the longtime members of the valueMD forum. When they say look before you leap, you must heed or end up smashed on the rocks.

[rokshana]

:oops:


Hi,

Can we see the license?

SH


who cares about the license??!!! Let's see a CHARTER- not a letter saying its OK for the school to APPLY for a charter - an ACTUAL CHARTER!!!!!! you are gonna be waitin' a long time for IMED listing...WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A CHARTER!!!!

and, and the letter on the website is for an UNDERGRADUATE school - the word medical school isn't anywhere there!

[ULTRON]

Wow. You could make a good lawyer!

ULTRON

who cares about the license??!!! Let's see a CHARTER- not a letter saying its OK for the school to APPLY for a charter - an ACTUAL CHARTER!!!!!! you are gonna be waitin' a long time for IMED listing...WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A CHARTER!!!!

and, and the letter on the website is for an UNDERGRADUATE school - the word medical school isn't anywhere there!

[studentdoctobe]

CMU continues to be a bad disappointment and will get the full treatment it deserves from the valueMD community.

Those of us who graduated from proper medical schools, and those of us who are interested in proper medical schools and the teaching of medicine, must stand up to all schools like this that demonstrate even the slightest suspicion of deception.

CMU recently sneaked into Curacao. From my perch in the USA I informed the St Martinus crowd about its origins. They did not even know that CMU was coming or had come! ONLY A THIEF COMES SILENTLY IN THE NIGHT!

CMU then either employed cheerleaders or encouraged them to blast the supposed glories of their so called school on valueMD ad nauseam et ad infinitum day in and day out. CMU called attention to its self in a way that required perfection in all aspects of its operations. It should not now expect any mercy from the forum.

The more they harped the more we looked. The more we looked the more we observed. Like we realized that their website was copied, that they had only two teachers but were running more than one semester levels.

We realized too that they have no charter and are NOT IMED LISTED! We have caught thier cheif spokesman in lie after lie. What next!

We realized early that CMU was a spin off from SJMS. And those who had any previous experience with SJMS were impressed by the website indication that they were better facilities, and hoped that there would be better all round interest for the students welfare. When I heard of its origins, and realized that it was a break off from SJMS, I hoped that the administrator would have used his knowledge of the ills that he had seen and experienced in Bonaire, and that he would have come with a clean act. But NO. We seem to have a case of Monkey see, Monkey do. Because we still have the same poorly run medical school.

I really don’t believe that both the students and faculty members visited the CMU campus at the open house and decided to transfer. IF they did, they were stupid. Very stupid; as they now realized. St Martinus has now been going 5 years. They have more experience. There are teachers at St Martinus with decades of teaching experience. They are programs that were set up at St Martinus that bore fruit in 2006 with their excellent past rate of 96% including one brilliant student who scored 99%. WHY WOULD YOU THROW AWAY SUCH A TRACK RECORD TO GO SOMEWHERE THAT HAS NO TRACK RECORD BESIDES AN ADMINISTRATOR WHO SPENT YEARS AT SJMS LEARNING HOW TO MISTREAT STUDENTS, STAFF AND EVERYONE IN BETWEEN?


PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS OUGHT TO ABHOR AND REFRAIN FROM WASTING THEIR TIME AND MONEY AT A PLACE LIKE THIS UNTIL IT CAN PROVE ITSELF.


We read that “students who left CMU during the first semester are now coming back after struggling to get their documents from St. Martinus with a support of the local police.” This sounds more like the situation that occurred in Bonaire in 2005 when SJMS students left to go to XUSOM.

QUESTION: WHY SHOULD STUDENTS BE LEAVING YOUR SCHOOL (BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION ) DURING THE FIRST SEMESTER IF YOUR SCHOOL IS SO GOOD?

Seems someone is telling stories here. Someone is telling little lies.

I understand that the students who left St Martinus were MD 1 students, so what documents would they have there that the police would have to help them recover. Certainly they would have copies of documents submitted BEFORE they entered school. Having left during a semester what documents would they need to get from St Martinus?

We know that the students who defected from St Martinus are not seniors, because they just recently had another graduation/white coat ceremony.

CMU is a bad disappointment. It is unlikely that this bogus school will last very long. It may have already passed its sell by date, who knows. We need to keep the pressure on this place and force it to clean up its act quickly. People who boast like they do, and employ cheerleaders like they do, ought to be perfect!

By the way, where are the cheerleaders these days? Sorry. I forgot. They have left CMU now that they have found that ALL THAT GLITTERS IS NOT GOLD!

CMU is about making and displaying silly unprofessional promotional videos; but going to medical school and providing a medical education to seeking students is REALITY!

I again repeat ---- Prospective students must learn to listen to the hoary heads of the longtime members of the valueMD forum. When they say look before you leap, you must heed or end up smashed on the rocks.


Thank you so much for this post. :)

[studentdoctobe]

:mrgreen: ................................... :crackingup:............................ :yeah:

[stephew]

while anyone is welcome to post their views, multiple replies that consist of icons and no substantive content are tatamount to trolling. if you have something to contribute, please do. if not, please don't post, otherwise it will be treated as trolling.

[rlewkowski]

who cares about the license??!!! Let's see a CHARTER- not a letter saying its OK for the school to APPLY for a charter

I'd say, "very good layer". Please explain us what is the difference between a charter and a license. Please define a charter. Its seems to me, you dont have any idea what you're talking about.

[stateofequilibrium]

I'd like to see a charter that says CMU on it, not CIU, that is also not a letter of intent for an UNDERGRADUATE program, and has doctor of medicine listed on there as well.

[AUCMD2006]

I'd say, "very good layer". Please explain us what is the difference between a charter and a license. Please define a charter. Its seems to me, you dont have any idea what you're talking about.


if this whole start a med school, charge tuition, 4 months before getting a permit to start the process of applying to open a med school thing doesn't work out may i sugest you take the LSAT and start law school...that or sell used cars because man have you got the gift to say so much without actyally answering anything and spinnung things....it is a gift that can not be taught it is on the job training

[superhumper]

That is VERY TRUE, and if you dont believe, just check with the students or police, there will be an article in the local newspaper about those practices soon. I'll try to provide a link to it.


Hi All,

Please do provide link

SH

[AUCMD2006]

I'd say, "very good layer". Please explain us what is the difference between a charter and a license. Please define a charter. Its seems to me, you dont have any idea what you're talking about.


License- as in the business license or permot to open that facade of a foundation you guys have going. it states that you can hang a shingle and open a business office

Charter-the document granting an educational body the aouthority to convey degrees. it lists the degrees the facility is authorized to convey...you know like in the CIU charter where it DOES NOT say CIU or anything related to it hasany aouthority to grant doctor of medicine degrees? the charter gives you legal authority to grant the degree

right now you are operating an unaccredited anauthorized medical school in a country that just last friday gave you permission to start the paperwork to start a med school.

please oh please spin this for us:

how can you grant or hold classes for a doctor of medicine degree when the university you claim affiliation with is not authorized to do so?

[rokshana]

I'd say, "very good layer". Please explain us what is the difference between a charter and a license. Please define a charter. Its seems to me, you dont have any idea what you're talking about.

well,jeezy peezy, if you don't KNOW the difference between charter and license...well it speaks volumes for the type of "academic" institution you're runnin there.

I guess the neighborhood Hooters could give out medical degrees since i'm sure they have a license to run a business.

ii guess you would be the expert about not having ANY idea so i'm duly chastized:cry:

[rlewkowski]

License- as in the business license or permot to open that facade of a foundation you guys have going. it states that you can hang a shingle and open a business office

Charter-the document granting an educational body the aouthority to convey degrees. it lists the degrees the facility is authorized to convey...you know like in the CIU charter where it DOES NOT say CIU or anything related to it hasany aouthority to grant doctor of medicine degrees? the charter gives you legal authority to grant the degree

right now you are operating an unaccredited anauthorized medical school in a country that just last friday gave you permission to start the paperwork to start a med school.

please oh please spin this for us:

how can you grant or hold classes for a doctor of medicine degree when the university you claim affiliation with is not authorized to do so?

You are totally wrong!!!

1. There is NO NEED to obtain a business license for an entity like foundation.
2. What accreditation? What other newly established school /SMU, XAVIER, SJSM, SPARTAN, etc./ has an accreditation?
3. The CIU's charter grants the university the right to confer the MD Degree, you may want to confirm it with the Government officials.
4. Permission to start the paperwork to start a med school? I've never heard about a permit to start paperwork. Do we need a permit to think about opening a med school?
5. The ACCM document "Elements of Accreditation of Medical Colleges" Element 2 Corporate Organization p. 7 clearly states "The institution shall be licensed by the appropriate governmental or regulatory authority to offer courses of instruction in medicine and award the MD degree." Therefore there is no difference between a license, permit, charter, agreement as long as it gives you certain authority.


Congrats for your proper English!!!

[emt036]

You are totally wrong!!! Another "good lawyer" studying medicine.
1. There is NO NEED to obtain a business license for an entity like foundation.

Actually, that is incorrect. Foundations need business licenses, especially if they want the tax breaks...

2. What accreditation? What other newly established school /SMU, XAVIER, SJSM, SPARTAN, etc./ has an accreditation?All of the schools mentioned have a charter, as evidenced by the fact that they are all listed in IMED. And just FYI, Spartan has been around for 20 years, so I wouldn't exactly call it a newly established school.


3. The CIU's charter grants the university the right to confer the MD Degree, you may want to confirm it with the Government officials.How so? Doctor of Medicine is not listed on the CIU charter displayed on your website. Heck, it is not even signed by anyone! And as further proof, CIU is not listed in IMED either, so obviously it does not have a charter to operate medical school courses.


4. Permission to start the paperwork to start a med school? I've never heard about a permit to start paperwork. Do we need a permit to think about opening a med school?No, but you do need a permit/license/charter to open a medical school, none of which CMU has. The document posted on your website, dated last week, states that you can begin the process of applying for permission to open a new medical school.

5. The ACCM document "Elements of Accreditation of Medical Colleges" Element 2 Corporate Organization p. 7 clearly states "The institution shall be licensed by the appropriate governmental or regulatory authority to offer courses of instruction in medicine and award the MD degree." Therefore there is no difference between a license, permit, charter, agreement as long as it gives you certain authority.Traditionally, the document that gives the right to confer degrees is referred to as a charter.

[stateofequilibrium]

I guess that's why CMU took the time to register itself as a Foundation and under the normal registry right? Yes, I checked.

[emt036]

I guess that's why CMU took the time to register itself as a Foundation and under the normal registry right? Yes, I checked.

Yeah, they actually display it quite proudly on their website that their foundation is registered: http://www.curacao-chamber.an/c-reg/content/Excerpt.asp?mode=edit&companyid=6985&establishmentnr=-1&legalformid=81

Not that it actually means anything at all...

[stateofequilibrium]

Yeah, they actually display it quite proudly on their website that their foundation is registered: http://www.curacao-chamber.an/c-reg/content/Excerpt.asp?mode=edit&companyid=6985&establishmentnr=-1&legalformid=81

Not that it actually means anything at all...

I mean they are also listed in the commerical registry as well, dated August 20th

[rlewkowski]

Actually, that is incorrect. Foundations need business licenses, especially if they want the tax breaks...

All of the schools mentioned have a charter, as evidenced by the fact that they are all listed in IMED. And just FYI, Spartan has been around for 20 years, so I wouldn't exactly call it a newly established school.


How so? Doctor of Medicine is not listed on the CIU charter displayed on your website. Heck, it is not even signed by anyone! And as further proof, CIU is not listed in IMED either, so obviously it does not have a charter to operate medical school courses.


No, but you do need a permit/license/charter to open a medical school, none of which CMU has. The document posted on your website, dated last week, states that you can begin the process of applying for permission to open a new medical school.

Traditionally, the document that gives the right to confer degrees is referred to as a charter.

1. A foundation does not need a business license /Check with department of Economics/
2. Those schools have a charter but on the charter it states that this is no accreditation. What accreditation do those schools have? IMED is not an accreditation either
3. The CIU's charter was signed by the Minister of Education and it grants us to issue a degree in Health Science. We will update the website to show official charter.
4. Traditionally? So why does ACCM use the word "license"?

[finishingfifth]

1. A foundation does not need a business license /Check with department of Economics/
2. Those schools have a charter but on the charter it states that this is no accreditation. What accreditation do those schools have? IMED is not an accreditation either
3. The CIU's charter was signed by the Minister of Education and it grants us to issue a degree in Health Science. We will update the website to show official charter.
4. Traditionally? So why does ACCM use the word "license"?

A degree in health science? So what... nursing, physcial therapy. I have an undergraduate degree in life sciences, that does not mean I have an M.D. Also, why doesnt CMU have its own charter, not one from CIU. Although, it doesnt really matter, neither are in IMED. As I was filling out my appliction for ERAS and NRMP yesterday, I had to pick a medical school from the netherlands antilles. AUC was the first option. Of the schools listed there, CMU was not one. Bottom line : in the eyes of the american medical community CMU DOES NOT EXIST. CMU accepting tuition is tantamount to theft, plain and simple.

[emt036]

Those schools have a charter but on the charter it states that this is no accreditation. What accreditation do those schools have? IMED is not an accreditation either

In general, accredition is by the government ministry of health or other official accrediting agency. Please see: FAIMER | Directory of Organizations that Recognize/Accredit Medical Schools (http://www.faimer.org/orgs.html) for a list. IMED is not an accreditation agency, however, it only lists medical schools which have been given permission to operate by the appropriate government authorities. This is not the case for CMU or CIU.

3. The CIU's charter was signed by the Minister of Education and it grants us to issue a degree in Health Science. We will update the website to show official charter.

Health Sciences does not equal Doctor of Medicine. I have a degree in Health Sciences (as an EMT), but does that mean I am a doctor? Of course not. The CIU charter is dated from 2001. If it included permission to hold MD courses, why is CIU not listed in IMED?

4. Traditionally? So why does ACCM use the word "license"?

I don't know. I can't even find a website for ACCM, so I am not sure about the qualifications of that group anyways.

[MYMD]

ACCM accredits the Big Four and a few other schools read the schools websites : SABA University - www.saba.edu - international medical university college (http://www.saba.edu/home_charter.php)

SABA's site for reference.

[Scott1981]

i dont have the time to do it, but why doesnt anybody email ecfmg, imed, etc?

give them background info on cmu. tell them that the school is not running on their own charter but on another schools charter that has been in existence since 2001, but whose charter makes no mention of conferring MD degrees or any affiliation with CMU. copy the documents from cmu's website and include it on the email along with cmu's website address claiming imed and ecfmg listing.

ask if the students enrolled are eligible to take the usmle under a charter from another school that is non-medical.

let them know that CMU is claiming that they will get approval using these documents and giving false hope to enrolled students.

get a response from them, giving them all the background info along with cmu's "documents." lets get a thorough response from ecfmg, imed once and for all.

[emt036]

ACCM accredits the Big Four and a few other schools read the schools websites : SABA University - www.saba.edu - international medical university college (http://www.saba.edu/home_charter.php)

SABA's site for reference.

Well, not the Big 4 - SGU's site makes no mention of it:
Recognition & Standards - About SGU - St. George’s University (http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/about-sgu/recognition-standards.html)

Just have never heard of it before. And neither has Google, save for the websites proclaiming accreditation from them.

[MYMD]

Well, not the Big 4 - SGU's site makes no mention of it:
Recognition & Standards - About SGU - St. George’s University (http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/about-sgu/recognition-standards.html)

Just have never heard of it before. And neither has Google, save for the websites proclaiming accreditation from them.

Yea I thought it was all 4 and I found it on AUC : American University of the Caribbean (http://www.aucmed.edu/aboutauc/inst_accr.htm)

Also I know SMU was accredited by them.

And SABA as posted sorry I need to go night night now good night!

[rlewkowski]

FAIMER | Directory of Organizations that Recognize/Accredit Medical Schools (http://www.faimer.org/orgs.html)

[emt036]

FAIMER | Directory of Organizations that Recognize/Accredit Medical Schools (http://www.faimer.org/orgs.html)

Yes, I did see it, but I don't know how it got on the list (i.e. SMU telling FAIMER that they were accredited by them). They are not hyperlinked, and they don't seem to have a website, so I can't figure out who they are.

[Scott1981]

Yes, I did see it, but I don't know how it got on the list (i.e. SMU telling FAIMER that they were accredited by them). They are not hyperlinked, and they don't seem to have a website, so I can't figure out who they are.

scroll to the bottom.

National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation (NCFMEA) (http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/ncfmea.html)

[rlewkowski]

They are even recognized by the U.S. Department of Education.

National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation (NCFMEA) (http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/ncfmea.html)

[ironpalm83]

They are even recognized by the U.S. Department of Education.

National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation (NCFMEA) (http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/ncfmea.html)

man oh man! no matter what you say, the bottom line is no one should go to CMU. NO ONE.

seriously how much money did you invest in this scheme???

[emt036]

scroll to the bottom.

National Committee on Foreign Medical Education and Accreditation (NCFMEA) (http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/ncfmea.html)

Ahh, thanks. Still don't know who they are, but the DOE seems to think they have comparable standards. :-)

But anyways, enough of this tangent. Let's get back on topic. :-)

[ind3r]

i dont have the time to do it, but why doesnt anybody email ecfmg, imed, etc?



Hey scott, I posted this on a different thread on the 14th:

Decided to ask the main source so that Mr. L will have no excuse as to claim that people are "bashing" the school...
Here a response from a rep from ECFMG:

August 14, 2007

Dear Doctor,

Please be advised ECFMG® has not received any information from the government of Curacao nor any request for the medical school to be listed in ECFMG’s International Medical Education Directory.

Sincerely,
info@ecfmg.org (info@ecfmg.org)
JAY

[Scott1981]

Hey scott, I posted this on a different thread on the 14th:



did you tell them all the background information about what is going on there, along with the CIU charter that grants undergrad degrees.

im not looking to just ask if CMU sent in paperwork for IMED listing. i want to know their take on CMU's position, showing them cmu's website stating imed listing, the non-medical school caribbean INTERNATIONAL universities's charted, the congrat letter from the curacao govt stating that they need to go through the proper channels to get established before they can open their doors, etc.

i want a position, not just a response from them stating that no paperwork was sent in.

[lswiltshire]

Yesterday, I pointed out that CMU recently sneaked into Curacao, and that few people knew that CMU was coming or had come!

Well the truth is that CMU should not have come so fast! (pun intended). You see St Martinus technically was given a monopoly on conducting medical schools in Curacao until 2008.

Apparently, there are top politicians and local doctors involved in CMU. There is also great support from one of the local newspapers This allows their presence in Curacao. However, these officials do not know, or do not care about the issues that concern us greatly on this forum such as a charter, IMED and FAIMER listing etc.

These island officials do not know of the power and influence of the truth when it is posted in this forum.

I knew that there had to be a reason why CMU was operating in Curacao with out the knowledge of the St Martinus flock. Now we know.

The truth about CMU is gradually emerging. Amidst his story telling lying and conducting the CMU cheerleading choir (now not singing even at ppp) their vocal administrator neglected to tell the forum that he had wiped the SJMS computers clean before he left to apply for unemployment benefit even though he was working for CMU.

Word on the ground in Curacao, is that even now RL and crew are preparing to lure the incoming St Martinus students to CMU.

Friends where there is smoke there is usually fire. It must be very difficult for RL to act with any decency and honesty and transparency, after working at SJMS headquarters for so long. He is performing exactly as he has been taught and has practiced for years. We can expect more sinister acts from him and his school, if we allow thier existence.

However, they have evidenced enough dishonesty and deceit to allow us to condemn them to the valueMD abyss. Prospective students are hereby warned not to be taken in my the CMU cheerleading, and repeated posts by the administration. The fact that he protests so much suggests that there is much more that he has to hide.

[rlewkowski]

"You see St Martinus technically was given a monopoly on conducting medical schools in Curacao until 2008."

The monopoly was stopped just 3 weeks ago, and that’s why our listing in IMED is delayed.

"Word on the ground in Curacao, is that even now RL and crew are preparing to lure the incoming St Martinus students to CMU."
CMU is not luring anyone. Each student has a right to choose a school, transfer in or out without any penalties.

We have the same right to exist on the Island of Curacao, as any other school.

[finishingfifth]

"You see St Martinus technically was given a monopoly on conducting medical schools in Curacao until 2008."

The monopoly was stopped just 3 weeks ago, and that’s why our listing in IMED is delayed.

"Word on the ground in Curacao, is that even now RL and crew are preparing to lure the incoming St Martinus students to CMU."
CMU is not luring anyone. Each student has a right to choose a school, transfer in or out without any penalties.

We have the same right to exist on the Island of Curacao, as any other school.

Yeah, but you dont have the right to claim you are listed in IMED/Faimer on your website. That is still on there as of this morning. Keep ignoring the issues, maybe they will magically go away.

[dt]

The truth about CMU is gradually emerging. Amidst his story telling lying and conducting the CMU cheerleading choir (now not singing even at ppp) their vocal administrator neglected to tell the forum that he had wiped the SJMS computers clean before he left to apply for unemployment benefit even though he was working for CMU.




Hi rlewkowski,

is the underlined true?

[ansom]

Hey All,

we all know CMU is trying to establish and all know how much time it takes to establish with accreditions. Its true that CMU admin made some mistakes by saying that they have all accredits, now they say they are trying. I do strongly believe that they are trying and confrimed it with the officials of gov of curacao. They are going to receive the charter shortly on CMU Name. Its true.

I request CMU admin to modify the comments on their web site stating that they are not approved and it is in final stage and they started the school with an affiliation to CIU and are getting the charter on their own . All accreditions will be updated as and when they are approved.

This will make every one to have a break and stop bouncing on RL.

[rokshana]

Hey All,

we all know CMU is trying to establish and all know how much time it takes to establish with accreditions. Its true that CMU admin made some mistakes by saying that they have all accredits, now they say they are trying. I do strongly believe that they are trying and confrimed it with the officials of gov of curacao. They are going to receive the charter shortly on CMU Name. Its true.

I request CMU admin to modify the comments on their web site stating that they are not approved and it is in final stage and they started the school with an affiliation to CIU and are getting the charter on their own . All accreditions will be updated as and when they are approved.

This will make every one to have a break and stop bouncing on RL.

interesting -only 2 posts and they are identical!

[rokshana]

"You see St Martinus technically was given a monopoly on conducting medical schools in Curacao until 2008."

The monopoly was stopped just 3 weeks ago, and that’s why our listing in IMED is delayed.

"Word on the ground in Curacao, is that even now RL and crew are preparing to lure the incoming St Martinus students to CMU."
CMU is not luring anyone. Each student has a right to choose a school, transfer in or out without any penalties.

We have the same right to exist on the Island of Curacao, as any other school.


as any other UNDERGRADUATE school- since that is what the letter you sent to the ministry of education says you want to start- was that maybe? a way to get around the monopoly?

shady,shady,shady...

[emt036]

interesting -only 2 posts and they are identical!
Multiple account alert!

[ansom]

Hi ALL,

Try to stop doubting everything. I am no way connected to the school. I am a parent of a student and did some investigation after seeing all your posts with my own interest and I thought its better to post it here so that people like you will stop doubting each and everything.

Try to be realistic and come to your senses. the post will look similar in different threads bc its the same person posting with the same subject in it.

[stephew]

Hi ALL,

Try to stop doubting everything. I am no way connected to the school. I am a parent of a student and did some investigation after seeing all your posts with my own interest and I thought its better to post it here so that people like you will stop doubting each and everything.

Try to be realistic and come to your senses. the post will look similar in different threads bc its the same person posting with the same subject in it.
you need context. merely insisting people stop doubting is counterproductive if you read through the issues in this forum. explain your situation but a blanket statement about not being skeptical isnt useful

[dt]

Hi ALL,

Try to stop doubting everything. I am no way connected to the school. I am a parent of a student and did some investigation after seeing all your posts with my own interest and I thought its better to post it here so that people like you will stop doubting each and everything.

Try to be realistic and come to your senses. the post will look similar in different threads bc its the same person posting with the same subject in it.

It's obvious that the school president/chairman misrepresented.

IMED/WHO listing and charter are very important items to consider when considering offshore Caribbean medical schools aimed at North American students.

Medical education is too expensive and time consuming to allow continual trust in someone who has shown a strong tendency to lie.

[studentdoctobe]

you need context. merely insisting people stop doubting is counterproductive if you read through the issues in this forum. explain your situation but a blanket statement about not being skeptical isnt useful
Is it me or does he infact seem to be IN CONTEXT, considering he could be continuing from where he left off, except with a different id, just a thought.

[studentdoctobe]

Yesterday, I pointed out that CMU recently sneaked into Curacao, and that few people knew that CMU was coming or had come!

Well the truth is that CMU should not have come so fast! (pun intended). You see St Martinus technically was given a monopoly on conducting medical schools in Curacao until 2008.

Apparently, there are top politicians and local doctors involved in CMU. There is also great support from one of the local newspapers This allows their presence in Curacao. However, these officials do not know, or do not care about the issues that concern us greatly on this forum such as a charter, IMED and FAIMER listing etc.

These island officials do not know of the power and influence of the truth when it is posted in this forum.

I knew that there had to be a reason why CMU was operating in Curacao with out the knowledge of the St Martinus flock. Now we know.

The truth about CMU is gradually emerging. Amidst his story telling lying and conducting the CMU cheerleading choir (now not singing even at ppp) their vocal administrator neglected to tell the forum that he had wiped the SJMS computers clean before he left to apply for unemployment benefit even though he was working for CMU.

Word on the ground in Curacao, is that even now RL and crew are preparing to lure the incoming St Martinus students to CMU.

Friends where there is smoke there is usually fire. It must be very difficult for RL to act with any decency and honesty and transparency, after working at SJMS headquarters for so long. He is performing exactly as he has been taught and has practiced for years. We can expect more sinister acts from him and his school, if we allow thier existence.

However, they have evidenced enough dishonesty and deceit to allow us to condemn them to the valueMD abyss. Prospective students are hereby warned not to be taken in my the CMU cheerleading, and repeated posts by the administration. The fact that he protests so much suggests that there is much more that he has to hide.

They may probably be more concerned about the econimical benefit of having as many shools as possible, to really care.

[ind3r]

did you tell them all the background information about what is going on there, along with the CIU charter that grants undergrad degrees.

im not looking to just ask if CMU sent in paperwork for IMED listing. i want to know their take on CMU's position, showing them cmu's website stating imed listing, the non-medical school caribbean INTERNATIONAL universities's charted, the congrat letter from the curacao govt stating that they need to go through the proper channels to get established before they can open their doors, etc.

i want a position, not just a response from them stating that no paperwork was sent in.

Yea I did tell them about all the "claims" that CMU's site had made but I ended up getting a general response. I'm guessing that ECFMG gets a lot of these e-mails regarding many other institutions that make false claims. So they leave the discretion up to the prospective students. I guess they have better things to do. I don't know.

[dt]

"You see St Martinus technically was given a monopoly on conducting medical schools in Curacao until 2008."

The monopoly was stopped just 3 weeks ago, and that’s why our listing in IMED is delayed.



Your listing in IMED was delayed because you did not have the charter to grant MD degree. According to your letters posted on Aug 20th on your website, you are now invited to apply by the Curacao government.

[rlewkowski]

Hi rlewkowski,

is the underlined true?

Of course not.

[finishingfifth]

Hey RL,
Have you ever lied about CMU in any way shape or form?

[studentdoctobe]

Hey RL,
Have you ever lied about CMU in any way shape or form?
I'm assuming you are expecting and honest answer THIS TIME.

[studentdoctobe]

Caribbean Medical University (CMU) has no future because it opened without a charter and has no IMED or WHO listing, students are not qualified to sit for USLME exams.

All the school administrator RL cares about is pulling a smoke screen to cover all the lies he has told, avoids answering questions, and when he does, he lies CONSISTENTLY!

[rokshana]

Caribbean Medical University (CMU) has no future because it opened without a charter and has no IMED or WHO listing, students are not qualified to sit for USLME exams.

All the school administrator RL cares about is pulling a smoke screen to cover all the lies he has told, avoids answering questions, and when he does, he lies CONSISTENTLY!

well at least he lies consistently- maybe there is hope for him!

[superhumper]

The monopoly was stopped just 3 weeks ago, and that’s why our listing in IMED is delayed.

Hi All.

I seriously doubt that this statement is true... Government is not a clown
and does not pull things like this. Besides what Government RL is talking about? Is it Island Government or Netherlands Antilles?

SH

[finishingfifth]

Hi All.

I seriously doubt that this statement is true... Government is not a clown
and does not pull things like this. Besides what Government RL is talking about? Is it Island Government or Netherlands Antilles?

SH

curacao is the capital of NA, so i can understand thaem being one and the same. But my school was all the way in st.maarten, somehow we got a charter. And 3500 grads. And of course...teratos.

[MYMD]

Hi All.

I seriously doubt that this statement is true... Government is not a clown
and does not pull things like this. Besides what Government RL is talking about? Is it Island Government or Netherlands Antilles?

SH

Well the island is about to become it's Own Country and will not be the Capital of the NA, the NA will no longer exist any more. I'm sure you have heard of the break up/break away.

[rlewkowski]

Well the island is about to become it's Own Country and will not be the Capital of the NA, the NA will no longer exist any more. I'm sure you have heard of the break up/break away.

It’s obvious they don’t know anything about a process of opening a medical school and all governing laws related to it. Don’t even ask about political situation, monopoly, license, charters. It’s too tough for them to understand.

Since the break up will start in 2008, all schools located within NA would have to get a new charter and apply for IMED and WHO listing again.

By the way, I’m pretty sure it would be almost impossible for St. James and Xavier in Bonaire to obtain a charter from Netherlands. Better get ready, the days are counted. You'll be going through the same hell as we are now. Rokshana and friends would be able to continue getting experience in black PR and bashing. Good luck :)

[emt036]

It’s obvious they don’t know anything about a process of opening a medical school and all governing laws related to it. Don’t even ask about political situation, monopoly, license, charters. Its too tough for them to understand.

Now that's funny, considering the source. :lol:

[byteme]

:crackingup:
It’s obvious they don’t know anything about a process of opening a medical school and all governing laws related to it. Don’t even ask about political situation, monopoly, license, charters. Its too tough for them to understand.

Apparently not just "them", eh Mr. L?

[rlewkowski]

:crackingup:


Apparently not just "them", eh Mr. L?

Sure, let see :-happy

[dt]

It’s obvious they don’t know anything about a process of opening a medical school and all governing laws related to it. Don’t even ask about political situation, monopoly, license, charters. Its too tough for them to understand.

Since the break up will start in 2008, all schools located within NA would have to get a new charter and apply for IMED and WHO listing again.


Obviously!?!


Nevertheless the bottom line, come licensure time, is: was your medical education provided when the school had a charter to grant MD degree?

I noticed that 1 whole semester has gone by where 'education' was provided as a private school. Heck, if the 'medical courses' taken are valid, then students at S t****t U***sity in California should have no trouble getting licensed.

[rokshana]

Rokshana and friends would be able to continue getting experience in black PR and bashing. Good luck :)

hmmm...since RL defined for all of us what his definition of black PR is (and its not a good thing) and he is accusing me of it- isn't that a bit insulting? I think it is. Shouldn't the mods look into this? I believe that could be infraction worthy!!:)

http://www.valuemd.com/caribbean-medical-university-cmu/140743-countdown-friday-august-10th-2007-a-4.html#post659430

[finishingfifth]

It’s obvious they don’t know anything about a process of opening a medical school and all governing laws related to it. Don’t even ask about political situation, monopoly, license, charters. It’s too tough for them to understand.

Since the break up will start in 2008, all schools located within NA would have to get a new charter and apply for IMED and WHO listing again.

By the way, I’m pretty sure it would be almost impossible for St. James and Xavier in Bonaire to obtain a charter from Netherlands. Better get ready, the days are counted. You'll be going through the same hell as we are now. Rokshana and friends would be able to continue getting experience in black PR and bashing. Good luck :)

Yeah, its so hard for me to understand. If I can learn renal pathophysiology, I am pretty sure I can understand how IMED works. You are either a school listed in IMED, or you arent. You either have a charter or you dont. The rest is semantics. Current course work at CMU is useless.

[rlewkowski]

Current course work at CMU is useless.

Useless and untrue are your posts like that. Students are getting decent education in here. Even SGU transfer is satisfied with the quality of the coursework. As IMED listing will show instruction year as 2007, noone will have any problems with USMLE and licensure, therefore dont post misleading info.

[stateofequilibrium]

Even SGU transfer is satisfied with the quality of the coursework.

I'm not sure how much of an endorsement this is, no offense to DJ Siva. From his blog it doesn't look like he's repeating his coursework from SGU since he's going into the last semester of his Basic Sciences, nor has he or any of your students taken the USMLE, so I don't see as to what basis of comparison he has to say this.

[finishingfifth]

Useless and untrue are your posts like that. Students are getting decent education in here. Even SGU transfer is satisfied with the quality of the coursework. As IMED listing will show instruction year as 2007, noone will have any problems with USMLE and licensure, therefore dont post misleading info.

So, now you can see into the future? How can you possibly be sure no one will have any problems. You arent even sure if you are in IMED or not. You website indicates you are, but you say its in the process, a process that was supposed to be done on Aug 10. You claim you can do rotations in PA & NJ (which is completly untrue). I am sure you will continue to ignore this. But you think I am misleading.

Who cares what an SGU "transfer" has to say. Who in their right mind would leave one of the most respected schools in the caribbean for an unproven school. Either that student failed out of SGU (making his opinion of the coursework useless, because he/she couldnt pass it anyway) or the student has poor decision making capacity (worrisome for his/her future as a potential physician). And since you hold the opinion of SGU students in such high esteem, why not follow rokshana's opinion? I tend to agree with her.

PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT THE NJ&PA ROTATIONS? STOP AVOIDING IT!

[rlewkowski]

I'm not sure how much of an endorsement this is, no offense to DJ Siva. From his blog it doesn't look like he's repeating his coursework from SGU since he's going into the last semester of his Basic Sciences, nor has he or any of your students taken the USMLE, so I don't see as to what basis of comparison he has to say this.

Since he and other student from AUA can compare the education getting at CMU.

[finishingfifth]

Since he and other student from AUA can compare the education getting at CMU.

Oh its Dj siva (Holla!). I wasnt aware that the judge of your curriculum was such a well read and articulate young medical student, my apologies. Anyone doubting his inherrent ability to judge a curriculum will surely be convinced by his blog. Please....do go take a look at it.

[superhumper]

It’s obvious they don’t know anything about a process of opening a medical school and all governing laws related to it. Don’t even ask about political situation, monopoly, license, charters. It’s too tough for them to understand.


Hi All,

You sound very confident and looks like you know a lot, so tell us which Government you were referring to?

SH

[DOCplucinski]

Useless and untrue are your posts like that. Students are getting decent education in here. Even SGU transfer is satisfied with the quality of the coursework. As IMED listing will show instruction year as 2007, noone will have any problems with USMLE and licensure, therefore dont post misleading info.
so on a serious note, when is IMED expected?

[MYMD]

So with all this emotion aside, what is the future? I think IMED will list them if the Gov on the Island sends and fill out the right Docs. Since I attend SJSM and have read posts on VMD for years I have learned to not trust ANY SCHOOL and look for what is real and what is true. I think the days of WHO listed schools are gone now, WHO still has a note that the list will continue but since they gave the job to another school in the Netherlands thats where the list is "Never Land". It seems we are stuck with IMED as the "List" and "Gulp" the state I love to hate Cali.

BTW I hate to point this out but NY/TX/FL approvals are for the students to do clinicals not Lic, Lic for any FMG is possible in these states, But as is the case in TX Possible does not mean easy lots of hoops to jump through.

[MYMD]

Here is the Florida Laws for Lic, ( again I waste my time to make sure a point is made)

link: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes :->2007->Ch0458->Section 311 : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0458/SEC311.HTM&Title=-%3E2007-%3ECh0458-%3ESection%20311#0458.311)

It took me about 120 sec to look this up then another 120 sec to read. FOr some reasons people would rather post stuff thats wrong and not look it up?

The important part is below then the law follows:

(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subparagraph (1)(f)3., a graduate of a foreign medical school need not present the certificate issued by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates or pass the examination utilized by that commission if the graduate:
(a) Has received a bachelor's degree from an accredited United States college or university.
(b) Has studied at a medical school which is recognized by the World Health Organization.


458.311 Licensure by examination; requirements; fees.--
(1) Any person desiring to be licensed as a physician, who does not hold a valid license in any state, shall apply to the department on forms furnished by the department. The department shall license each applicant who the board certifies:
(a) Has completed the application form and remitted a nonrefundable application fee not to exceed $500.
(b) Is at least 21 years of age.
(c) Is of good moral character.
(d) Has not committed any act or offense in this or any other jurisdiction which would constitute the basis for disciplining a physician pursuant to s. 458.331. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0458/Sec331.HTM)
(e) For any applicant who has graduated from medical school after October 1, 1992, has completed the equivalent of 2 academic years of preprofessional, postsecondary education, as determined by rule of the board, which shall include, at a minimum, courses in such fields as anatomy, biology, and chemistry prior to entering medical school.
(f) Meets one of the following medical education and postgraduate training requirements:
1.a. Is a graduate of an allopathic medical school or allopathic college recognized and approved by an accrediting agency recognized by the United States Office of Education or is a graduate of an allopathic medical school or allopathic college within a territorial jurisdiction of the United States recognized by the accrediting agency of the governmental body of that jurisdiction;
b. If the language of instruction of the medical school is other than English, has demonstrated competency in English through presentation of a satisfactory grade on the Test of Spoken English of the Educational Testing Service or a similar test approved by rule of the board; and
c. Has completed an approved residency of at least 1 year.
2.a. Is a graduate of an allopathic foreign medical school registered with the World Health Organization and certified pursuant to s. 458.314 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0458/Sec314.HTM) as having met the standards required to accredit medical schools in the United States or reasonably comparable standards;
b. If the language of instruction of the foreign medical school is other than English, has demonstrated competency in English through presentation of the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates English proficiency certificate or by a satisfactory grade on the Test of Spoken English of the Educational Testing Service or a similar test approved by rule of the board; and
c. Has completed an approved residency of at least 1 year.
3.a. Is a graduate of an allopathic foreign medical school which has not been certified pursuant to s. 458.314 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0458/Sec314.HTM);
b. Has had his or her medical credentials evaluated by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates, holds an active, valid certificate issued by that commission, and has passed the examination utilized by that commission; and
c. Has completed an approved residency of at least 1 year; however, after October 1, 1992, the applicant shall have completed an approved residency or fellowship of at least 2 years in one specialty area. However, to be acceptable, the fellowship experience and training must be counted toward regular or subspecialty certification by a board recognized and certified by the American Board of Medical Specialties.
(g) Has submitted to the department a set of fingerprints on a form and under procedures specified by the department, along with a payment in an amount equal to the costs incurred by the Department of Health for the criminal background check of the applicant.
(h) Has obtained a passing score, as established by rule of the board, on the licensure examination of the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE); or a combination of the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE), the examination of the Federation of State Medical Boards of the United States, Inc. (FLEX), or the examination of the National Board of Medical Examiners up to the year 2000; or for the purpose of examination of any applicant who was licensed on the basis of a state board examination and who is currently licensed in at least one other jurisdiction of the United States or Canada, and who has practiced pursuant to such licensure for a period of at least 10 years, use of the Special Purpose Examination of the Federation of State Medical Boards of the United States (SPEX) upon receipt of a passing score as established by rule of the board. However, for the purpose of examination of any applicant who was licensed on the basis of a state board examination prior to 1974, who is currently licensed in at least three other jurisdictions of the United States or Canada, and who has practiced pursuant to such licensure for a period of at least 20 years, this paragraph does not apply.
(2) As prescribed by board rule, the board may require an applicant who does not pass the national licensing examination after five attempts to complete additional remedial education or training. The board shall prescribe the additional requirements in a manner that permits the applicant to complete the requirements and be reexamined within 2 years after the date the applicant petitions the board to retake the examination a sixth or subsequent time.
(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subparagraph (1)(f)3., a graduate of a foreign medical school need not present the certificate issued by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates or pass the examination utilized by that commission if the graduate:
(a) Has received a bachelor's degree from an accredited United States college or university.
(b) Has studied at a medical school which is recognized by the World Health Organization.
(c) Has completed all of the formal requirements of the foreign medical school, except the internship or social service requirements, and has passed part I of the National Board of Medical Examiners examination or the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates examination equivalent.
(d) Has completed an academic year of supervised clinical training in a hospital affiliated with a medical school approved by the Council on Medical Education of the American Medical Association and upon completion has passed part II of the National Board of Medical Examiners examination or the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates examination equivalent.
(4) The department and the board shall assure that applicants for licensure meet the criteria in subsection (1) through an investigative process. When the investigative process is not completed within the time set out in s. 120.60 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0120/Sec60.HTM)(1) and the department or board has reason to believe that the applicant does not meet the criteria, the 1State Surgeon General or the 1State Surgeon General's designee may issue a 90-day licensure delay which shall be in writing and sufficient to notify the applicant of the reason for the delay. The provisions of this subsection shall control over any conflicting provisions of s. 120.60 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0120/Sec60.HTM)(1).
(5) The board may not certify to the department for licensure any applicant who is under investigation in another jurisdiction for an offense which would constitute a violation of this chapter until such investigation is completed. Upon completion of the investigation, the provisions of s. 458.331 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0458/Sec331.HTM) shall apply. Furthermore, the department may not issue an unrestricted license to any individual who has committed any act or offense in any jurisdiction which would constitute the basis for disciplining a physician pursuant to s. 458.331. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0458/Sec331.HTM) When the board finds that an individual has committed an act or offense in any jurisdiction which would constitute the basis for disciplining a physician pursuant to s. 458.331 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0458/Sec331.HTM), then the board may enter an order imposing one or more of the terms set forth in subsection (8).
(6) Each applicant who meets the requirements of this chapter shall be licensed as a physician, with rights as defined by law.
(7) Upon certification by the board, the department shall impose conditions, limitations, or restrictions on a license if the applicant is on probation in another jurisdiction for an act which would constitute a violation of this chapter.
(8) When the board determines that any applicant for licensure has failed to meet, to the board's satisfaction, each of the appropriate requirements set forth in this section, it may enter an order requiring one or more of the following terms:
(a) Refusal to certify to the department an application for licensure, certification, or registration;
(b) Certification to the department of an application for licensure, certification, or registration with restrictions on the scope of practice of the licensee; or
(c) Certification to the department of an application for licensure, certification, or registration with placement of the physician on probation for a period of time and subject to such conditions as the board may specify, including, but not limited to, requiring the physician to submit to treatment, attend continuing education courses, submit to reexamination, or work under the supervision of another physician.

[Britimg]

why cmu is even on vmd. i hate the fact that few apples like cmu, st christ etc ruin the reputation for the rest of us. sgu, auc and others had to work very hard to get the reputation they have now and fruadulant institute like cmu does nothing but hurt the image of graduate from these school. back in states, back in europe, they dont distinguish us as cmu, sgu, auc etc.....we are all carib grad. i would say, sue them .... they are indirectly making the things harder for us.

to rl ;- you failed once, and i dont have a shadow of doubt that u will fail again. do u care at all about the studentwho come to u, do u care about the patient who these student may see in future, if any. how many school official u see here with infarctions. u are not being professional, but u are making urself look bad by badmouthing others. i pity the fools who would even consider cmu as a place to get md.

[MYMD]

why cmu is even on vmd. i hate the fact that few apples like cmu, st christ etc ruin the reputation for the rest of us. sgu, auc and others had to work very hard to get the reputation they have now and fruadulant institute like cmu does nothing but hurt the image of graduate from these school. back in states, back in europe, they dont distinguish us as cmu, sgu, auc etc.....we are all carib grad. i would say, sue them .... they are indirectly making the things harder for us.

to rl ;- you failed once, and i dont have a shadow of doubt that u will fail again. do u care at all about the studentwho come to u, do u care about the patient who these student may see in future, if any. how many school official u see here with infarctions. u are not being professional, but u are making urself look bad by badmouthing others. i pity the fools who would even consider cmu as a place to get md.

Although I think VMD is about marketing a school, it's not supposed to be. This is supposed to be a student site to discuss schools and students to discuss topics, it turns into something else at times.

Two schools with forums here have internet BAsic SCI and advanced standing for Nurses and PA's a big no no yet the forums are on VMD, schools that do not follow normal rules hurt us all.

YES I believe SC did the greatest damage of all

[lswiltshire]

Britimig wrote to rl ;- you failed once, and i dont have a shadow of doubt that u will fail again. do u care at all about the studentwho come to u, do u care about the patient who these student may see in future, if any. how many school official u see here with infarctions. u are not being professional, but u are making urself look bad by badmouthing others. i pity the fools who would even consider cmu as a place to get md.


My friend Britimig, in the very brief time I spent at SJMS, one of the senior teachers there said openly that the owner Mr LALA said about standards at SJMS "WE WILL WEED THEM OUT AT STEP 1".

In other words we will open our doors to every Tom **** and Harry at a cheap tuition rate. At that price they must take what they get (such as four different teachers in one course in the same semester). Some will pass some will fail but we would have pocketed thier money.

I have never visited anywhere in my life where students and staff were treated worse. None of my primary or secondary schools had the poor conditions I met at SJMS. And I can go on ad infinitum

The point I am making is that THE ACTIONS OR RL IS PROBABLY ALL THAT HE KNOWS. THIS IS WHAT RL LEARNED AT SJMS. HE CAN ONLY PRACTICE WHAT HE WAS TAUGHT. AND HE WAS TAUGHT WELL

Like everyone else here, I hate to see and read about the happenings at CMU, and I would go as far to say that I hope it closes permanently! I ABSOLUTELY ABHOR BAD MEDICAL SCHOOLS BUt I will die saying RL is practicing all the nasty evils he learned at SJMS. There are scores of ex teachers and former students who were hurt at SJMS. [I have interviewed a number of them for jobs elsewhere, and their stories were not very pretty.]
Such that there is a lawyer on Bonaire who can easily make a living of her SJMS cases.

RL certainly knows about the 2 students that were promised acceptance at SJMS in early 2005 with full credit even though they failed their exams comprehensively at another school. This happened one semester. The next semester 4 students transferred to SJMS from the same school with out even doing final exams.


I am sure the SJMS cheerleaders will try to defend this. But this was corroborated by my SJMS contacts teaching at SJMS at the time. As my dad would say, these events are as true as John 3:16!

So when you hear RL knocking SJMS, I am afreaid to say he is heret telling the truth. Because he is speaking of the training that he is putting into practice at CMU.

By the way, the incidents above is what sparked the calling in of the news reporter from Chronicle of Higher Education to investigate these maters.

[finishingfifth]

Thats interseting, but this forum is about the problems with CMU. I am sure SJMS is probably a pretty lousy school. But their school offcials dont come on here and act unprofessional. Only their former employees.

[MYMD]

...........................

My friend Britimig, in the very brief time I spent at SJMS, one of the senior teachers there said openly that the owner Mr LALA said about standards at SJMS "WE WILL WEED THEM OUT AT STEP 1".

In other words we will open our doors to every Tom **** and Harry at a cheap tuition rate. At that price they must take what they get (such as four different teachers in one course in the same semester). Some will pass some will fail but we would have pocketed thier money.

I have never visited anywhere in my life where students and staff were treated worse. None of my primary or secondary schools had the poor conditions I met at SJMS. And I can go on ad infinitum


I am sure the SJMS cheerleaders will try to defend this. But this was corroborated by my SJMS contacts teaching at SJMS at the time. As my dad would say, these events are as true as John 3:16!





I'm not a CHeerleader for SJSM just for facts and truth. YOu are not in possession of the exact truth just hearsay, I too have hearsay and 1.5 years of first hand knowledge.

1. Do you know the contracts signed by students? I have a copy that I signed
2. DO you have a copy of contracts signed by professors? DO you have taped conversations and transcripts of the agreements spoken at the times? Do you ( I would think not)
3. What is wrong with asking for proof of the allegations anyone makes? You have made them before and I called you on some of them.
4. WHO ARE YOU? BTW I'm a 3rd year student but you claim to have taught in Medschool..........HMM You claim to be a student too? I'm confused. http://www.valuemd.com/658779-post43.html
In the bogus school at which I taught in the Cooks last year there were perhaps 300 books but ALL WERE RELEVANT! At least they had that and a proper building for the sudents.
SO are you an ADMIN somewhere? If so you are not supposed to be posting as a student.
5. Of course SJSM is a mess I agree, it need lots of work but they have a charter and there are fully Lic grads from SJSM so the school is legit just not as nice as a lot of others.
6. TRUTH is not cheerleading theres a big difference

I'm sorry you are so angry, you make some good points and SJSM is not a great school but it is enough to get Lic and thats what I have deal with. As I asked stay on topic in the CMU forum and leave SJSM out of it please. When discussing a school Posting both sides is not cheerleading. CHeerleading is more like a lie or a spin.

MODS please take note.

[MYMD]

.................

We realized early that CMU was a spin off from SJMS. And those who had any previous experience with SJMS were impressed by the website indication that they were better facilities, and hoped that there would be better all round interest for the students welfare. When I heard of its origins, and realized that it was a break off from SJMS, I hoped that the administrator would have used his knowledge of the ills that he had seen and experienced in Bonaire, and that he would have come with a clean act. But NO. We seem to have a case of Monkey see, Monkey do. Because we still have the same poorly run medical school.

.................................................

I again repeat ---- Prospective students must learn to listen to the hoary heads of the longtime members of the valueMD forum. When they say look before you leap, you must heed or end up smashed on the rocks.

This school is not a spin off of SJSM please stop posting this!

Just beacuse RL worked there and a few other people does not make this SJSM! This logic used then employees of WalMart who go to work at Macys then Macys becomes WalMart? I'm trying to understand here?

MUA and SABA is owned by the same people and even in this strong link only SABA is approved in CALI. IMO the logic does not hold up

[dt]

Thats interseting, but this forum is about the problems with CMU. I am sure SJMS is probably a pretty lousy school. But their school offcials dont come on here and act unprofessional. Only their former employees.


Not true. sjsmstudent is a st. james official. initially he masqueraded as a student but was called on it. That's why if you look at his profile, you'll see that even though his id is sjsm student, he is now a school official.

http://www.valuemd.com/members/sjsmstudent.html


I believe there is merit to lswiltshire's observation.

[rlewkowski]

Not true. sjsmstudent is a st. james official. initially he masqueraded as a student but was called on it.

You're right DT. Can I call finishingfifth a liar from now on, since he posts untrue information?

[MYMD]

Not true. sjsmstudent is a st. james official. initially he masqueraded as a student but was called on it. That's why if you look at his profile, you'll see that even though his id is sjsm student, he is now a school official.

http://www.valuemd.com/members/sjsmstudent.html


I believe there is merit to lswiltshire's observation.
Yea I saw that too, suspected as much after reading the first posts by the user(proves that SJSM is not part of CMU too like I posted). Look I know a lot cause I'm a web addict as well as a student but some of these posters know too much! thats when I start to OCD some on them, wonder who they really are!

I tell you there are many days I'm not proud of the school I attend:confused: Just another year or so then I can forget about it!

[dt]

I'm not a CHeerleader for SJSM just for facts and truth. YOu are not in possession of the exact truth just hearsay, I too have hearsay and 1.5 years of first hand knowledge.

1. Do you know the contracts signed by students? I have a copy that I signed
2. DO you have a copy of contracts signed by professors? DO you have taped conversations and transcripts of the agreements spoken at the times? Do you ( I would think not)
3. What is wrong with asking for proof of the allegations anyone makes? You have made them before and I called you on some of them.
4. WHO ARE YOU? BTW I'm a 3rd year student but you claim to have taught in Medschool..........HMM You claim to be a student too? I'm confused. http://www.valuemd.com/658779-post43.html (http://www.valuemd.com/658779-post43.html)
SO are you an ADMIN somewhere? If so you are not supposed to be posting as a student.
5. Of course SJSM is a mess I agree, it need lots of work but they have a charter and there are fully Lic grads from SJSM so the school is legit just not as nice as a lot of others.
6. TRUTH is not cheerleading theres a big difference

I'm sorry you are so angry, you make some good points and SJSM is not a great school but it is enough to get Lic and thats what I have deal with. As I asked stay on topic in the CMU forum and leave SJSM out of it please. When discussing a school Posting both sides is not cheerleading. CHeerleading is more like a lie or a spin.

MODS please take note.

My response to your comments I highlighted in bold...


I think if you look back at lswiltshire's posts you should see that he mentioned teaching at st. james.

So, for #2, yes he should have the contract he signed. Whether he kept it is another matter.

For #4, the link you provided has

In the bogus school at which I taught in the Cooks last year there were perhaps 300 books but ALL WERE RELEVANT! At least they had that and a proper building for the sudents.

He did not claim to be a student. He was a teacher.




MODS should take note of this post of mine too... ;-)

[finishingfifth]

You're right DT. Can I call finishingfifth a liar from now on, since he posts untrue information?

You dont need permission to call me anything. If you want to call me a liar, go ahead. Your previous posts and history easily reveal your character.

I wasnt aware of the situation, I will admit I was unaware. My post was innacuarate because I have not memorized the history of every user on VMD, my apologies.

But, here we are again. You are still ignoring the REAL issues:
Where do you offer clinicals (hospital names, not just states)?

Why did you say you had rotations in PA and NJ, and then admit you didnt have them?

What is the exact date CMU will have its own charter?

When exactly will CMU be listed in IMED?

You never give real answers to these questions, you dodge them and try to change the subject.

I will stay on your case until you answer these questions, I dont want you to deceive any more potential CMU students.

[dt]

You're right DT. Can I call finishingfifth a liar from now on, since he posts untrue information?


No, not yet! We gave you time to change/correct. And when you didnt, well...

Give him time to catch up.

[emt036]

You're right DT. Can I call finishingfifth a liar from now on, since he posts untrue information?

With only 15 posts, it is easy to imagine that fifth missed the fact that sjsmstudent was a school official. Heck, I didn't even know. So I don't believe it was an intentional lie, in comparison to other cases.

[rlewkowski]

I wasnt aware of the situation.

[finishingfifth]

Still avoiding the REAL questions? Just answer them, stop this charade.

[lswiltshire]

MYMD
Re
I'm not a CHeerleader for SJSM just for facts and truth.

MYMD I have not called you a cheerleader for SJMS. Please do not flee when no man pursueth. I have no problem with you or your posts.

CHeerleading is more like a lie or a spin

Not true. Cheer leading is promotion. Those lovely girls who dance etc at games in your country are not lying surely. They may be spinning (pun intended) but they are not lying.

TRUTH is not cheerleading theres a big difference

We agree 100% there Sir. And I have told the truth, the whole truth