Question about AUC, Ross, St.George!

[sid876]

Hey Guys,

I know discussion about which carribbean schools are inconclusive and endless on this forum and others. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that deciding on which school to go to is entirely a personal choice and depends on one's personal preferences. I've got an interview with Ross in New Jersey on the 31st of this month (August), but I'm very hesitant to go there because of all of the horror stories I hear about the problems that students face during their clinical years. That being said I'm applying to AUC today and St. George as well. I serious doubt I'll be able to get in St. George and I'm hoping I can get into AUC. I've got a pitiful 2.2 undergrad GPA, most of the classes were from 10 years ago when I was young and dumb. But since then I've done a post-bac and got a 4.0 and with a solid MCAT score (I'm fairly certain I got at least a 30) , which I took on Aug. 6. I'm hoping the ad com will give me a chance at AUC or St. George. I'm only applying to these three schools because I know they've got the best reputations out of all the carribbean schools and they give students the flexibility to practice in all 50 states.

Given this sort of background and concerns, the questions I have are:

1) Do you think there's a significant advantage in going to St. George over AUC or Ross or any difference between the three schools? (I think I remember reading on random posts (by Shah Patel) that some Program Directors do favor students coming from St. George or Ross over AUC. Is there any truth to this or is it just a myth?

2) I'm turning 30 in Jan. and do not want to delay the start of med school any longer. I want to begin my medical education during the Jan. 2008 term. Do you guys anticipate that I'm probably going to face the same troubles and will probably have to have long breaks in clinicals which would result in me delaying graduation.

3) If that's the case is it best to attend AUC, if I get in, so I don't face the same problems? I've been told by the admissions counselor on the phone that AUC does not face the same problems that Ross faces during clinicals and AUC students have a smooth uninterrupted process completing clinicals.

4) There always is the possiblility of me being waitlisted and having to begin AUC during the May 2008 term. Do you guys think its still worth it to wait to attend school in May vs. starting Ross in Jan?

5) I understand that its almost impossible to get specialties like derm, platics, ortho surgery, or rad. oncology. Of course like any student I want to do the best I possibly can and hoping to do as well as I can when I get to med school. Say there's a student from AUC, St. George, and Ross who all scored equally high scores on the Step 1 and have all equivalent good LOR's and everything else to garnish an interview. Do you think a PD is likely to take the student from one school or the other or can you really not predict that? I guess this is a follow up from question 1 but I'm sure these are common questions that prospective students have.

I would really appreciate any input from students who are going through the Ross experience and I'll post this same message on the AUC and St. George to get input from students who attend those schools.

Thank you very much for your input because I have to start making this important decision in the next few months.

Take care and good luck to all!!

[liqu0rleadstocha0s]

***************

[sid876]

Hey drjekyll95,

I appreciate your reply to my post. I know it was a ton of stuff I wrote. But in essence, it seems to me that you would recommend I go to AUC over Ross? Is it mainly because its a much better island? My main concerns are when it comes time for residencies which school gives you an advantage, or is there no such thing. Are they both fairly equal. I think I remember reading some posts saying that Many program directors accross the country have positive views about St. George and Ross but I haven't heard much about AUC. Is there any truth to this. If there is it might be worth it to endure the pain of being on the island and the shitty experience during clinicals if you may have a slight advantage over other caribbean students, including AUC grads. If there is no such advantage then I would go to AUC.

Do you have any opinions on this?

Thank you

[butters]

Yes, AUC is on a better island than Ross or even St. George's (more things to do, for me, more distractions), but there are so many other things to looks.

For instance, you should look at class sizes. Ross class sizes are huge...if that is not the type of environment you can function in, Ross is not your best bet.

Also, St. George's and AUC for right now have a more smooth clinical situation vs. Ross. Will Ross change in the next couple of years when you are ready for clinicals? Maybe, but if they don't, this is something that you need to weigh in to your decision.

And as far as finances are concerned, St. George's is more expensive, then Ross, then AUC. If you have any sort of money issues (although you can get full loans from all three schools...I think all have Stafford, Unstafford, and Grad PLUS), you may want to take this into consideration.

It is not impossible to get Derm, Radio, Optho, or Orthopedics...you have to been on top of the game, meaning very, very high board scores, good basic sci grades, solid clinical roations and LOR's. All 3 of these schools don't match much into these specialties, but I would say that St. George's probably places more students into these vs. Ross and AUC (probably because they have a very extensive alumni network).

It's definitely a tough decision, but take these factors into account and I'm sure you will make an informed, well thought out decision.

Good luck!

[Aggiemd2b]

Here is my 2 cents but this is from research not experience as I am in the same boat you are my friend......

1. I am being conservative here, Ross puts at least 250 students in clinicals each year and graduates probably about the same. Go back and see how many different people posted on the threads complaining about clinicals. Don't bash me I realize there probably are a few problems but look at the shear numbers who are not complaining. Are they doing this because they are having no problems or because they don't post here?

2. I have been able to research and find what I believe to be accurate pass / fail rates on USMLE step 1, 2 and 3. Based on what I know, SGU kicks A** on 1 over Ross and AUC. However, Ross is not that far off SGU's numbers and they are much better than AUC (the trend for AUC seems to be on the up swing). As for step 2 and 3 Ross and SGU tend to get closer with SGU still on top.

3. Ross does have a history of a positive reputation but seems to be taking some hits due to the clinical situation. We all can hope that Ross will not let this go down the toilet! Hense they will have to do something about clinicals and not just sit by.

4. I've read and heard through speaking with various schools that post bac work helps the application but only if you have the initial numbers to get a hard look. With your undergrad GPA you might be pushing it! SGU is probably out that leaves Ross and AUC........................I am in the same place and it is a tough decision but Ross has a positive history, really good pass rates on the USMLE, good loan options, I've been nominated for a scholarship, terrible island but only 16 months long so there is my 2 cents!

Good luck in your decision I feel your agony.

[sid876]

Hey Aggiemd2b,

I appreciate your reply. Are you already at Ross or are you like me trying to decide. It sounds like your leaning toward Ross. I hope your right in that many people don't have problems in clinicals and actually get through. I have absolutely no problem dealing with the inconvenience of moving around and stuff if it means gettting my rotations done in the normal time. I have my interview on the 31st and I'm going to be sure to find out from the them exactly what we should expect come clinicals. As far as the island being crappy and all, I can deal with that. I'm close to being 30 and have lived the life of a stupid undergrad who wants to just party. Now all I want to do is just begin med school and get on with my life. I can care less about all the other nonsense that goes on in people's lives. I hope I don't sound like I'm not a cool fun person, but my priorities in life are more reflective of a person who is ready to be in med school and developing one's career and character. In fact I don't even like to drink anymore.

Well if you end up at Ross in the Jan 2008 term and am very serious about doing well in med school, I look forward to seeing you there.

take care

Sid

[Aggiemd2b]

Sid, I am trying to decide between Ross and AUC (SGU is too expensive) I am leaning towards Ross and sure as Hell hoping and praying I'm not making a mistake! I am almost 40 and couldn't care less about drinking and nightlife! I am going in Jan if they take me!

I have spoken to some Ross grads who said you could graduate on time if you just take the rotations they give you. If you want particular rotations it make take a little longer. I just don't have the answer but my gut is telling me Ross. But alas it is a personal decision.

I do know I plan on always staying on top of the clinical situation and trying to stay active with school programs so that I can be informed. I'm not sure if all those people who recently graduated had clinical troubles or not. I know only a few posted here about the problems and it just makes me wonder about all the others? Where are they?

[sid876]

Hey Aggiemd2b,

I respect the fact that you're going to be the one of the more mature serious students in medical school. I'm sure whereever you go you'll do great. I have a sister who is finishing up her residency in neurology. She went to Medical College of Georgia and from her experiences in med school she's repeatedly said that it's all up to the individual student. I'm sure you'll do well as long as you maintain that intensity.

If you don't mind me asking have you already interviewed at either school or not. My Ross interview like I stated is the 31st of August. I will definately let you know how it goes along with some pertinent info regarding the school in general as well as what we can expect during clinicals. If you have already had an interview, it would be instructive if you can let us all know what they told you.

Once again best of luck to you and If I decide on Ross and you're there as well, we can go to the island and get down to business.

Take care

Sid

[DC2BMD]

if you get accepted to SGU, Go there!

[hackinmage]

once again it's a matter of opinion, i actually got accepted to SGU and chose Ross over it. Why you ask?

Firstly, better board scores don't really mean anything (due to the proximity) kick *** and you'll do great, there are plenty of people from Ross that do amazing on the boards.

I chose ross because firstly i did not want to stay in the caribbean any more than i had to, did not want to pay as much for sgu (it's extremely significant)

True the clinical situation is pretty bad, but it's two years until we even have to touch that (and since it's a major weak point of the university, they are working on it).

Third, residency wise we do just as well if not better than SGU, comparing what i've read (since several students don't match, but rather take a contract before the match) ross obtains several competative residencies.

What i find it comes down to is really this, you must arrange your priorities. If cost is one, ross wins, if the clinicals is a deal breaker, obviously SGU wins, if you want to get back to American soil fastest, ross is there for ya. If you want to have a more comfortable existence on the island, i hear that SGU is better, but really i'm more of an outdoorsman, i'm excited to go around in ross, i hear it's beautiful. It's developed to the point of having the amenities i need, but if you want the lifestyle your accustomed to, SGU's island grenada is less of a step down. But if you want to compare it residency wise, you gotta rock it no matter what unless you have some connections there's not really much of a difference, both schools have churned out excellent students.

Lastly, and this is just a confidence booster, your post bac gpa is great, really i think you could easily get into SGU, in fact why aren't you applying for american schools? The 4.0 will help ALLOT, if it's in relevant courses that is.

Finally, you may be wondering why i didn't address AUC, really from the rumors i hear they DO slam you a bit for not going to ross or st.george since their so well known compared to AUC. However it varies from hospital to hospital, some don't mind as long as your from the "big three" and some kick AUC out of that elite group. But it hear it's a good school with good people, someone claimed ( i cannot verify this) that she turned down SGU and Ross because she preferred the people at AUC. i just thought it was odd they accepted me without an interview. Anyway, hope this helps
-cheers

[sid876]

Hey Hackinmage,

Thanks for your input. You're one of the few I heard of who chose Ross over SGU. You do raise some good points about both schools. I appreciate you encouraging me to apply to med schools in the states but I'm fairly certain that due to my really bad undergrad gpa (like I said 2.2 in about 135 credit hours) even with my 40 hrs. of post-bac 4.0 its not going to help. Those 40 hours were in the pre-req's (Bio, Chem, Physics, and O Chem) and Human A/P I and II. Even then I stand practically no chance and from what I hear it's going to be rough for me to get into St. George as well due to the increase in competition.

But are your not concerned about the situation with clinicals? I know that when your on the island, your job is to just focus on doing well in your basic sciences, and to worry about clinicals when you get to that stage. But rumor has it that people who start at Ross now (I'd start Jan 2008 if I decide to attend) wouldn't be able to graduate in the normal 4 years but would probably take 5. That's a whole year lost which is significant.

If anyone out there can verify if what I said is true feel free to comment. During my interview at the end of this month I'll be sure to try get the bottom of the clinical situation and I'll definately post my experiences. It just sucks, because if Ross didn't have the sh***y clinical situation, I'd mostly just go to Ross.

[hackinmage]

From what i HEAR, it's common to be done in 4, but people DO get fucked at go to 5. But most people are making it to the matches.

As for the clinical situation,from what i hear that situation is going to improve in the next year, let alone the next two years.

Furthermore, talking with the staff revealed that they do give priority to the ones who do better (kinda want to make them the stars), so if you do well you sohuldn't have too many issues.

I'm not worried by the year loss because, from what i hear, fore planning and keeping in touch with your counseler helps you out... but i may just be overly optimistic and get screwed later on :D. So far i've only heard of a people scrambling to get their cores done, but i haven't really heard of many 5th years.

[sid876]

Yeah I really hope the clinical situation is going to improve. My heart is telling me to go to Ross over AUC but if I get lucky and get into St. George I'll probably go there. I'm going to give the clinical department a call and ask them what I should honestly expect if I start Jan 08. But I hope your right that they expect the clinical situation to improve in the next couple of years.

[sid876]

Hey Hackinmage,

What semester are you at Ross? And if you don't mind me asking how hard is it to do really well down there? I know that it depends on the person but to give you an idea of how I did at my most recent semester: I went to a small university in Georgia for my post bach (Augusta State University) and took 4 science classes all with labs (Bio, Org Chem, Physics, and Human A/P) for two semesters and aced all my classes ( I was in the top of all of those classes; if you were to avg. my grades for all those classes it would probably be 93-94.) Given that due you think I can do well at med school if I turn it up a notch (3.5 gpa+)?

Thanks for the input

[Aggiemd2b]

Sid, I have not interviewed yet, I think my admissions rep is a little slow! She was still working on some Fall 07 apps when I spoke to her Wed and today I spoke with her and she was just starting her Jan people so I think it should be soon. I'll let you know what they tell me about the clinical situation but I anticipate they have all been told to say things are fine and things are in the works for more sites.

I don't get rattled to easy so I'm planning on going to Ross and take things in stride. I spent an extra year waiting to get into a US school because I got wait listed only to get wait listed again. I'm not putting it off anymore and I'll deal with whatever happens. :cool:

[hackinmage]

mm yeah, actually i'm entering in the september class, however IF you study (like every day for a couple hours) you should do well, even if you came from a small college that shows a dedication that should do very well for you, i believe you could probably pull off a 3.5+

The people from my school who are going/have gone to ross say that it's easier than the bioengineering program we were in, so i can say it's not hell >:D, but as for any question it always comes down to you, memorizational skills are key so i'd say you can guage your ability based upon your ability to memorize facts and data.

[chriscam8]

mm yeah, actually i'm entering in the september class, however IF you study (like every day for a couple hours) you should do well, even if you came from a small college that shows a dedication that should do very well for you, i believe you could probably pull off a 3.5+

The people from my school who are going/have gone to ross say that it's easier than the bioengineering program we were in, so i can say it's not hell >:D, but as for any question it always comes down to you, memorizational skills are key so i'd say you can guage your ability based upon your ability to memorize facts and data.

I would say you are in for a rude awakening.

[hackinmage]

first for sid, http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/140201-have-any-fall-07-students-questioned-ross-yet.html#post645682
this post basically is a more informed version of what i was saying

second chris, it's admittedly more memorization, and i know it's going to be hard, but my bioengineering program required us to submit 20 pages assignments every week that involved working on it for at least 4 hours every night on topics like how to create a scaffold with submucosal lining, and just to pass through the program we had to spend an hour after each lecture just to understand what we had read not to mention lab time. It's ranked the 2nd best bioengineering program in the country, but it was #1 in biomechanics which means ALLOT of math and constantly studying just to pass, we had a dropout rate of 80 percent so i'm not just blowing air outta my *** here

it's going to be harder for memorization definately, and i expect it to be a constant challenge.

[AllIn4Life]

I would say you are in for a rude awakening.

I'm starting in January and without knowing wat its like I agree with u 100%

[sid876]

Hey Chrisscam8,

What semester are you in? Why do you say your in for a rude awakening? We all know its going to be very difficult? But like anything else in life, you have to work extremely hard, be persistent, and not give up. I do know that Ross does have students down there who are able to get a 3.5+GPA and do well on the boards. I just want to know what their secret is. Do these students take some of these med school classes beforehand (like Biochem, Genetics, Cell Bio, Mircro, etc.), so they have an advantage?

I know as a student that one who is extremely dedicated to doing well can do well. My sister just finished her residency in neurology. She went to a med school in the states but she's always said that the students who did very well were just relentless with their work. They would work 6-8 hours a day and on the weekends all day (10+ hours) I know that distractions for me are not an issue. Hell, in fact I don't even own a TV, don't go out to party or any of that nonsense, and don't have the same need for entertainment that most young kids require.

But anyway, I know wherever I end up I'm going to work like an olympic athlete training for the gold medal. I'm sure if everyone works like that, they'll do well or as good as you possibly can. That's all you can ask for.

Just my $0.02 cents

[chriscam8]

Hey Chrisscam8,

What semester are you in? Why do you say your in for a rude awakening? We all know its going to be very difficult? But like anything else in life, you have to work extremely hard, be persistent, and not give up. I do know that Ross does have students down there who are able to get a 3.5+GPA and do well on the boards. I just want to know what their secret is. Do these students take some of these med school classes beforehand (like Biochem, Genetics, Cell Bio, Mircro, etc.), so they have an advantage?

I know as a student that one who is extremely dedicated to doing well can do well. My sister just finished her residency in neurology. She went to a med school in the states but she's always said that the students who did very well were just relentless with their work. They would work 6-8 hours a day and on the weekends all day (10+ hours) I know that distractions for me are not an issue. Hell, in fact I don't even own a TV, don't go out to party or any of that nonsense, and don't have the same need for entertainment that most young kids require.

But anyway, I know wherever I end up I'm going to work like an olympic athlete training for the gold medal. I'm sure if everyone works like that, they'll do well or as good as you possibly can. That's all you can ask for.

Just my $0.02 cents

I am a first semester.............and you can definitely pull a 3.5 if you work hard enough..........my reponse was mainly to hack's comment of doing that well with only studying a couple hours a day.........a couple to me is 2 to 3 hours, and thats not gona cut it, doesn't matter what your background is

[sid876]

Oh. HAHAHA Yeah of course. A couple of hours a day will definately not cut it.

Well best of luck to you Chriscam8.

One last question to you,

Do you find it difficult to study down there in the island perhaps due to any shortcomings of the school? (for example, lack of enough study space in the library, or any lack of any other resources.)

[butters]

From what i HEAR, it's common to be done in 4, but people DO get making babiesed at go to 5. But most people are making it to the matches.

As for the clinical situation,from what i hear that situation is going to improve in the next year, let alone the next two years.

Furthermore, talking with the staff revealed that they do give priority to the ones who do better (kinda want to make them the stars), so if you do well you sohuldn't have too many issues.

I'm not worried by the year loss because, from what i hear, fore planning and keeping in touch with your counseler helps you out... but i may just be overly optimistic and get screwed later on :D. So far i've only heard of a people scrambling to get their cores done, but i haven't really heard of many 5th years.


I really don't know who you spoke with but there are many others who are CURRENT students at Ross that can verify that this is not true. Example...Brotherman who got in the 90's on his Step and is struggling to get his core rotations completed.

Losing a year until you start a Residency is a big deal and a situation most people don't want to be in.

And as far as the clinical situation, this is a very very important thing to consider when making a decision to go to Ross...and to ask about at the interview. Yes, the school is definitely trying to get more spots but there are a lot of students backlogged and the problem looks only to get worse because the incoming class sizes are huge and more and more people are passing Step 1.

No matter where you go in the Caribbean or even if you get into a US school, you will have to work hard. There is "drama" on all the islands so that shouldn't even be a factor in your decision. If you stick to your work you will be fine, but clinicals, class sizes...all of these are important things to look at.

[butters]

From what i HEAR, it's common to be done in 4, but people DO get making babiesed at go to 5. But most people are making it to the matches.

As for the clinical situation,from what i hear that situation is going to improve in the next year, let alone the next two years.

Furthermore, talking with the staff revealed that they do give priority to the ones who do better (kinda want to make them the stars), so if you do well you sohuldn't have too many issues.

I'm not worried by the year loss because, from what i hear, fore planning and keeping in touch with your counseler helps you out... but i may just be overly optimistic and get screwed later on :D. So far i've only heard of a people scrambling to get their cores done, but i haven't really heard of many 5th years.

Oh, and by the way, you won't be able to contact your clinical advisor until you have passed Step 1. They will tell you to contact them after you have faxed in your Step scores. So "keeping in touch" with your clinical advisor is not going to help you get better rotations.

[chriscam8]

Oh. HAHAHA Yeah of course. A couple of hours a day will definately not cut it.

Well best of luck to you Chriscam8.

One last question to you,

Do you find it difficult to study down there in the island perhaps due to any shortcomings of the school? (for example, lack of enough study space in the library, or any lack of any other resources.)

The squatting situation (do a search if you aren't aware of it) was bad but now that the new library hours are in place its not as bad. I have a great desk in my apartment though and went and bought a very nice desk chair at a store called Courts a few miles from school, so I do almost all of my studying at home. That combined with a printer I brought from the states and high speed internet is all I really need.

[sid876]

Thanks for the info chriscam8,

Hopefully I'll be able to get into AUC as well as Ross and better yet St. George. Butters, are you back in the states doing clinicals or are you still on the island. Yeah, I heard about Brotherman's situation. That's an unfortuanate situation. So it sounds like AUC might be a better option as far as clinicals are concerned. I just want to go to the school which will give me the best oppurtunity at getting a good residency and it sounds to me like all three will get you there with St. George having a slight edge and AUC being equivalent to Ross. The large class size does not intimidate me whatsoever at Ross.

I'm sure you guys can't commment about AUC but are the facilities, the teaching, and the approachability of the proffesors adequate at Ross?

What I'm going to do before I make my final decision is to visit both schools and decide which one is better.

But you guys have been great and I greatly appreciate your comments. I will be sure to let you know what they tell me during the interview.

[hackinmage]

good luck!

[Microscp]

once again it's a matter of opinion, i actually got accepted to SGU and chose Ross over it. Why you ask?

Firstly, better board scores don't really mean anything (due to the proximity) kick *** and you'll do great, there are plenty of people from Ross that do amazing on the boards.

I chose ross because firstly i did not want to stay in the caribbean any more than i had to, did not want to pay as much for sgu (it's extremely significant)

True the clinical situation is pretty bad, but it's two years until we even have to touch that (and since it's a major weak point of the university, they are working on it).
Third, residency wise we do just as well if not better than SGU, comparing what i've read (since several students don't match, but rather take a contract before the match) ross obtains several competative residencies.

What i find it comes down to is really this, you must arrange your priorities. If cost is one, ross wins, if the clinicals is a deal breaker, obviously SGU wins, if you want to get back to American soil fastest, ross is there for ya. If you want to have a more comfortable existence on the island, i hear that SGU is better, but really i'm more of an outdoorsman, i'm excited to go around in ross, i hear it's beautiful. It's developed to the point of having the amenities i need, but if you want the lifestyle your accustomed to, SGU's island grenada is less of a step down. But if you want to compare it residency wise, you gotta rock it no matter what unless you have some connections there's not really much of a difference, both schools have churned out excellent students.

Lastly, and this is just a confidence booster, your post bac gpa is great, really i think you could easily get into SGU, in fact why aren't you applying for american schools? The 4.0 will help ALLOT, if it's in relevant courses that is.

Finally, you may be wondering why i didn't address AUC, really from the rumors i hear they DO slam you a bit for not going to ross or st.george since their so well known compared to AUC. However it varies from hospital to hospital, some don't mind as long as your from the "big three" and some kick AUC out of that elite group. But it hear it's a good school with good people, someone claimed ( i cannot verify this) that she turned down SGU and Ross because she preferred the people at AUC. i just thought it was odd they accepted me without an interview. Anyway, hope this helps
-cheers
In the last USMLE, a student from Ross got the highest score (99% percentile), higher than any student from any american school.

[AUCMD2006]

In the last USMLE, a student from Ross got the highest score (99% percentile), higher than any student from any american school.

that is on of those caribbean urban legends that just keeps getting recycled, we heard the same thing back in 2003, then it was repeated by the rossies in clinicals and here we go again....

[butters]

Thanks for the info chriscam8,

Hopefully I'll be able to get into AUC as well as Ross and better yet St. George. Butters, are you back in the states doing clinicals or are you still on the island. Yeah, I heard about Brotherman's situation. That's an unfortuanate situation. So it sounds like AUC might be a better option as far as clinicals are concerned. I just want to go to the school which will give me the best oppurtunity at getting a good residency and it sounds to me like all three will get you there with St. George having a slight edge and AUC being equivalent to Ross. The large class size does not intimidate me whatsoever at Ross.

I'm sure you guys can't commment about AUC but are the facilities, the teaching, and the approachability of the proffesors adequate at Ross?

What I'm going to do before I make my final decision is to visit both schools and decide which one is better.

But you guys have been great and I greatly appreciate your comments. I will be sure to let you know what they tell me during the interview.

I'm in clinicals...

[singer]

that is on of those caribbean urban legends that just keeps getting recycled, we heard the same thing back in 2003, then it was repeated by the rossies in clinicals and here we go again....



Gettting a 99 on the USMLE part 1 is a great accomplisment but 10% of the students (estimate ) get a 99. Depending on the actually exam you can get somewhere between a 235- 270 and you will get a 99 on the exam. If the student received a 300 that would say something . If he/she got a 235/99 again it is agreat accomplisment and the student should be congradulated to be somewher in the top ten percent of test takers.

[rokshana]

In the last USMLE, a student from Ross got the highest score (99% percentile), higher than any student from any american school.


not a percentile BTW the 2-digit score is just a set thing because of licensing criteria in some states require a 75 for being eligible.