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fossildoc
07-22-2007, 12:02 AM
A couple of months ago I sent to CMU a list of questions that med schools don't like to answer, but which I feel are perfectly legitimate and in no way inflammatory. CMU "lost" them, and when I made a followup inquiry, they sent me an email requesting that I resubmit the questions, and promised a swift reply to all of them.

Anybody who has haunted these forums for a while should not be surprised that the second submission went unanswered as well. These med schools seem to be unwilling to allow students to make informed decisions, and instead rely on subterfuge, evasion, and deceptions of all sorts, in the hope of luring enough "early adapters" (risk-takers) upon whom they will build their empires. Below the dotted line are my questions; I have made obvious edits to replace my personal circumstances with more general ones. Maybe some of you can find a way to get answers out of this school, or if you have them already, please post.
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1. Do you have, or are you in the process of obtaining, ECFMG Step exam eligibility (which would imply WHO and/or IMED listing)? "In the process" means you have unofficial approval by ECFMG, pending waiting periods and paperwork.

2. Do you offer student loans for U.S. citizens which do not require a co-signer (like TERI, or equivalent)?

3. Do you have a charter from the government of Curaçao to operate a medical school? If yes, what is the name of the government agency that issued the charter?

4. Is the school incorporated in the United States? If yes, in what state and under what name?

5. Do you require Step 1 as a requirement for your MD degree? If yes, what do you do with students who do not wish to take Step 1 (e.g., to practice in other countries or to become researchers)?

6. Do you accept transfer students at all levels of Basic Sciences? If yes:
a) Do you accept courses taken at <current school>?
b) Do you accept courses taken at <previous school>?
c) Do you require anything at all, besides a transcript, to transfer credits (like course Syllabi)? Note that <previous school> has flatly refused to provide syllabi to former students.
d) <previous school> <reason why previous school is about to collapse>, and may vanish at any moment. If it is not possible to obtain a transcript from them, will you accept an "official transcript given to student" in conjunction with a <current school> transcript showing courses transferred from <previous school> (<current school> will have an official transcript)?

7. Do you have or are you in the process of obtaining rotation contracts with at least one hospital in the U.S.? If yes, please list the hospital(s). If no, please give some indication of how far along this process is.

8. Do you encourage or at least permit students to arrange their own rotations? If yes, would this include rotations in foreign countries? Do you have a formal procedure in place for such students?

9. What is the approximate monthly cost of living in Curaçao for a single occupant, including hot water and 24-hour Internet?

10. What is the range of car rental fees?

11. Are there any problems encountered by U.S. students with Curaçao Immigration?

12. Are personal effects such as computers and cameras taxed by Curaçao Customs when medical students enter the country?

13. Is there Skype service from Curaçao? If yes, is it currently blocked?

14. At the end of each semester, will you provide an official transcript to each student -- subject to a reasonable fee -- showing courses completed and credits transferred from other schools?

15. For each student, do you guarantee the tuition and fee schedule that was in effect at the time the student was admitted? This includes semesters spent in rotations.

16. Do you have a formal, actually operating -- not theoretical or planned -- grievance procedure for the adjudication of student complaints?

17. Do you have an office or contact person in the United States? If yes, please give the address, phone number, email, and name of that person or office.

18. Do you have a student government? If yes, please provide me with the name and email address of its president or other officer.

19. Do you publish the names of the textbooks used in each course? If yes, are those books actually, really and truly, used by the teachers, or is the list merely part of a marketing plan?

20. Are your teachers required to have "office hours" to meet with students? If no, do they make themselves available at reasonable times?

21. Do you require a school uniform?

22. Do you require students to be tested in subjects that are being transferred from another school?

23. Do you require a "shelf" or "exit" exam before being allowed to start rotations?

24. What are your policies regarding teachers' behavior in the classroom? Are they permitted to humiliate, berate, and ridicule students? If they do that, what will you do?

25. Are there any graduation requirements, however trivial, not explicitly stated on your web site? If yes, what are they?

rlewkowski
07-22-2007, 04:08 AM
Please find the answers to your questions submitted
1. Do you have, or are you in the process of obtaining, ECFMG Step exam eligibility (which would imply WHO and/or IMED listing)? "In the process" means you have unofficial approval by ECFMG, pending waiting periods and paperwork. We are in process of obtaining WHO and IMED listing

2. Do you offer student loans for U.S. citizens which do not require a co-signer (like TERI, or equivalent)? Yes, MedLoan

3. Do you have a charter from the government of Curaçao to operate a medical school? If yes, what is the name of the government agency that issued the charter? Currently we work in affiliation with Caribbean International University. The charter was signed in year 2001 by the Ministry of Education of Netherlands Antilles

4. Is the school incorporated in the United States? If yes, in what state and under what name? Yes, in Illinois under Caribbean Medical University

5. Do you require Step 1 as a requirement for your MD degree? If yes, what do you do with students who do not wish to take Step 1 (e.g., to practice in other countries or to become researchers)? Step 1 is not required for students who dont wish to practice in US

6. Do you accept transfer students at all levels of Basic Sciences? If yes:
a) Do you accept courses taken at <current school>? Yes, we do
b) Do you accept courses taken at <previous school>? Yes, we do
c) Do you require anything at all, besides a transcript, to transfer credits (like course Syllabi)? Note that <previous school> has flatly refused to provide syllabi to former students.Wed do require transcript
d) <previous school> <reason why previous school is about to collapse>, and may vanish at any moment. If it is not possible to obtain a transcript from them, will you accept an "official transcript given to student" in conjunction with a <current school> transcript showing courses transferred from <previous school> (<current school> will have an official transcript)? CMU requires official transcripts from all previous schools attended

7. Do you have or are you in the process of obtaining rotation contracts with at least one hospital in the U.S.? If yes, please list the hospital(s). If no, please give some indication of how far along this process is. At this moment we work with 71 hospitals and 317 preceptors in 12 hospitals, to obtain a list of hospitals in a given state please send an email to clinicals@cmumed.org

8. Do you encourage or at least permit students to arrange their own rotations? If yes, would this include rotations in foreign countries? Do you have a formal procedure in place for such students? We dont encourage students to arrange their own rotations but we allow it.

9. What is the approximate monthly cost of living in Curaçao for a single occupant, including hot water and 24-hour Internet?Cost of living in CMU Dorms is $2200 per semester for single occupancy, including all utilities, hot water, wired and wireless internet, Direct TV, free phone calls to US and Canada, weekly cleaning, school's bus shuttle

10. What is the range of car rental fees? 400-600 per month

11. Are there any problems encountered by U.S. students with Curaçao Immigration? The immigration in Curacao is very student friendly so there are no problems encountered by any students

12. Are personal effects such as computers and cameras taxed by Curaçao Customs when medical students enter the country? No, as long as the items will be taken back to the country, where students are from

13. Is there Skype service from Curaçao? If yes, is it currently blocked?The Skype service is not blocked by our internet service provider at the school /4MB connection/ as well as at dorms /2MB connection/.

14. At the end of each semester, will you provide an official transcript to each student -- subject to a reasonable fee -- showing courses completed and credits transferred from other schools? Students may request official transcripts and/or grade reports at any time.

15. For each student, do you guarantee the tuition and fee schedule that was in effect at the time the student was admitted? This includes semesters spent in rotations. We plan to increase the tuition fees as the school grows, however it wont affect students that have been already accepted, therefore their tuition will stay the same as of the time of enrollment

16. Do you have a formal, actually operating -- not theoretical or planned -- grievance procedure for the adjudication of student complaints? Our student government formally submits student complaints, which are resolved by the school's Administration

17. Do you have an office or contact person in the United States? If yes, please give the address, phone number, email, and name of that person or office. CMU's office is located in Chicago at 10275 W. Higgins Ave Suite 420, more details at CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Contact Us (http://www.cmumed.org/contactus/index.htm)

18. Do you have a student government? If yes, please provide me with the name and email address of its president or other officer. Yes, at this time the President of SGA is and may be contacted at edited

19. Do you publish the names of the textbooks used in each course? If yes, are those books actually, really and truly, used by the teachers, or is the list merely part of a marketing plan?The required and recommended textbooks can be found at CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Study Textbooks (http://www.cmumed.org/academics/books.htm) and the usage is described in each course's syllabus

20. Are your teachers required to have "office hours" to meet with students? If no, do they make themselves available at reasonable times?The new class schedule for September batch will consist of teachers office hours at least once a week

21. Do you require a school uniform? No, we dont

22. Do you require students to be tested in subjects that are being transferred from another school? No, we dont have this requirement as long as the Admission Director accepts the credits from the previous school(s)

23. Do you require a "shelf" or "exit" exam before being allowed to start rotations?We required completing MD5 course in Chicago to be able to obtain certification for USMLE Step 1

24. What are your policies regarding teachers' behavior in the classroom? Are they permitted to humiliate, berate, and ridicule students? If they do that, what will you do? CMU teachers are not permitted to humiliate, berate and ridicule students, such behavior should be reported to the Dean for appropriate disciplinary action

25. Are there any graduation requirements, however trivial, not explicitly stated on your web site? If yes, what are they? Graduation Requirements can be found at CMU | Caribbean Medical University - Policies & Procedures (http://www.cmumed.org/admission/policies.htm)

contact info and names of others edited for their privacy.

MDXRS22
07-22-2007, 08:38 AM
That was nice of you to answer even the question about skype. No trying to be rude, but me, I would have ignored that because it's not education related. :)

fossildoc
07-22-2007, 09:04 AM
That was nice of you to answer even the question about skype. No trying to be rude, but me, I would have ignored that because it's not education related. :)

Not true. Every expense incurred in getting a medical education is education related. The dollar doesn't know whether it's being spent for tuition or a ham sandwich. All expenses, including tuition and ham sandwiches, must be considered when evaluating med schools. Some students have to call home frequently; the difference between almost-free Skype and local cell phone service may affect a student's decision.

For prospective students who don't think cost of living is education related, I recommend going to school in Grand Cayman. I hear the living is great.

MDXRS22
07-22-2007, 09:05 AM
I understand you!

byteme
07-22-2007, 05:44 PM
3. Do you have a charter from the government of Curaçao to operate a medical school? If yes, what is the name of the government agency that issued the charter? Currently we work in affiliation with Caribbean International University. The charter was signed in year 2001 by the Ministry of Education of Netherlands Antilles

I take it this means that it is CIU's charter that was signed in 2001. Does CMU have its own stand-alone charter? When was CMU's charter signed?

Whose charter, CIU or CMU, is CMU using to get listed in IMED? Regardless of affiliations, wouldn't FAIMER have a problem putting CMU in IMED if CMU is using a different school's name and charter to get registered? Any CMU student writing the steps would have to do so under CIU's sponsorship, but CIU doesn't have a medical school. That seems like a real headache.

Is this a possible reason why CMU is still not listed in IMED?

Scott1981
07-22-2007, 08:58 PM
seems like a new issue for cmu to comment on. so the way i take it, cmu does NOT have a charter from the island govt. they are relying on a charter that was issued for a school that was not intended to teach medicine.

how can one use another school's charter for education that was not issued for use at teaching medicine?

just one more reason to question the school's validity. maybe somebody can clarify this with imed/faimer to see if there will be issues for potential students.

emt036
07-22-2007, 11:58 PM
My Spanish is a bit rusty, but I don't see CIU as having a charter to operate a medical school based on its course offerings (http://www.firstciu.com/postgrado.asp). It may have a charter to operate an educational institution, but I don't see how that would translate in CMU having a charter to operate a medical school, and issue MD degrees. If CIU has been around since 2001, and is not listed in IMED, how does CMU expect to be listed under CIU's charter?

Phrozen
07-23-2007, 12:13 AM
another reason why cmu should be last on everyones list of potential med schools

studentdoctobe
07-23-2007, 04:14 PM
Interesting developments......

Phrozen
08-04-2007, 10:03 PM
Why does your website say CMU has WHO and IMED... when you have neither?

CMU | Caribbean Medical University - About CMU (http://www.cmumed.org/about/index.htm)

You have done a great job avoiding answering this question in other threads... :)

rlewkowski
08-04-2007, 10:36 PM
Why does your website say CMU has WHO and IMED... when you have neither?

CMU | Caribbean Medical University - About CMU (http://www.cmumed.org/about/index.htm)

You have done a great job avoiding answering this question in other threads... :)

Because CMU is fully legit school and eligible for listing in WHO and IMED as any other Caribbean medical school. However there was a delay in processing our application, which was submitted on March 15th. The delay occurred due to circumstances that were not under our control. As I stated in the previous posts, the situation has been clarified now and within one week we'll post official documents confirming our listing with those two agencies.

I can’t agree to your accusation of avoiding answering those questions in the past.

stateofequilibrium
08-04-2007, 11:30 PM
Because CMU is fully legit school and eligible for listing in WHO and IMED as any other Caribbean medical school. However there was a delay in processing our application, which was submitted on March 15th. The delay occurred due to circumstances that were not under our control. As I stated in the previous posts, the situation has been clarified now and within one week we'll post official documents confirming our listing with those two agencies.

I can’t agree to your accusation of avoiding answering those questions in the past.

Eligible and having are NOT the same thing though. I'm happy that you're going to get the papers soon, or happy for your students at least. But to constantly equate having with processing or applying for are absolutely not the same.

For your website to claim that you DO have it is a serious legal matter. Not to mention if you never explicitly stated your current position to all those applied or accepted admissions. If your school was in the states, a disgruntled student could have easily engaged in a lawsuit.

finishingfifth
08-05-2007, 12:41 AM
I am currently a student at an ivy league med school, according to this logic. I applied to one, but in the meantime I decided to go with AUC. This school is a disgrace.

stephew
08-05-2007, 12:45 AM
this topic is addressed elsewhere. please see other threads.

stephew
08-05-2007, 12:46 AM
mereged with prior thread.

teratos
08-05-2007, 07:50 AM
Eligible and having are NOT the same thing though. I'm happy that you're going to get the papers soon, or happy for your students at least. But to constantly equate having with processing or applying for are absolutely not the same.

For your website to claim that you DO have it is a serious legal matter. Not to mention if you never explicitly stated your current position to all those applied or accepted admissions. If your school was in the states, a disgruntled student could have easily engaged in a lawsuit.

Wow, I have to agree with that one. It's like me flying a 747. I would bet I am capable of learning to fly one, but I haven't even had my first lesson. You want me to be your pilot?


...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D