Sree Cheruku
07-22-2007, 08:23 PM
The point of this thread is so I can link it to my signature and never again have to define the term 'greenbook rotation'.
A greenbook rotation is one that either has or is affiliated with an ACGME-residency program in the same field as the rotation. The reason for the term 'green book' is because the ACGME publishes a list of these accredited residency programs in a book that happens to be green. This list is also available for free on their website - ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access (http://www.acgme.org/adspublic).
There are several reasons to choose Greenbook rotations.
The most important I think is the ability to practice in the maximum number of states. The VMD user Dakota, who is an AUA grad, posted the following:
States that may prove to be difficult regarding "GREEN" rotations are California, Delaware, Conn, Georgia (all including electives), Illinois, Michigan, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Utah, Virginia, and Kansas (15 year rule). Tennessee and Nevada should probably be put in this list as well.
States that aren't as difficult, with regards to "GREEN" rotations are Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas (be ready to fight), Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.
The statutes of each state are readily available for everyone to read---just takes a while to get through them all.
State Medical Boards, Physician Licensing Boards, State Boards of Medicine Directory (http://www.nvo.com/promedica/licensingboards/)
Also very important is that a greenbook rotation is almost always affiliated with an academic program in the subject - which means that you'll have lectures and actually learn something.
There are certain hospital administrators and even AUA employees who think, quite incorrectly, that a program is "Green book" if it is affiliated with a Family Medicine residency program. I have personally called the Michigan State Medical Board and they have told me that this is not true. The only state I know of which allows these 'Blue Book' rotations, as they are referred to, is California. And, AUA students can't practice there anyway.
The above stuff about Greenbook rotations applies to the core rotations. There are only two states that require Greenbook electives, that I know of, and those are TX and PA. I think that you should do Green electives as well, simply because it is a better learning experience. Take advantage of the fact that AUA students can do 3 months of rotations in hospitals not affiliated with the school to schedule these Greenbook electives.
Finally, you need to be able to independently verify the greenbook status of any given rotation - otherwise you will be mislead. For example, if you want to check if your Internal Medicine rotation at Harbor Hospital is Greenbook, go to
1. Go to ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access (http://www.acgme.org/adspublic),
2. Click on Accredited Programs (left column)
3. Select "Internal Medicine" and "Maryland"
4. You'll see Harbor Hospital on the list
Now here's the tricky part. How do you verify that a hospital without a Greenbook rotation is affiliated with one that is? That's the case with Ob/Gyn at Harbor Hospital.
1. Call Harbor Hospital and ask them exactly how the Ob rotation is Green
2. They will tell you that it is through the University of Maryland
3. Go to ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access (http://www.acgme.org/adspublic)
4. Click on Accredited Programs (left column)
5. Select "Obstetrics and Gynecology" and "Maryland"
6. Click on View Details to the left of "University of Maryland"
7. You'll see Harbor Hospital if you scroll all the way down
Umm.. can't think of much else...... ill keep this post updated I guess.
If there are mistakes in this post, just post it in a reply and I'll fix it.
Update 1:
Just because a program is Greenbook doesn't always mean that it provides a good learning experience. For example, I did family medicine at Jackson Park Hospital. They sent me to some satellite clinic where I was supervised by a PA who made it clear that she didn't want a student following her around and therefore I learned nothing at all. But, on paper, it says Jackson Park Hospital and my evaluation is signed by an MD.
A greenbook rotation is one that either has or is affiliated with an ACGME-residency program in the same field as the rotation. The reason for the term 'green book' is because the ACGME publishes a list of these accredited residency programs in a book that happens to be green. This list is also available for free on their website - ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access (http://www.acgme.org/adspublic).
There are several reasons to choose Greenbook rotations.
The most important I think is the ability to practice in the maximum number of states. The VMD user Dakota, who is an AUA grad, posted the following:
States that may prove to be difficult regarding "GREEN" rotations are California, Delaware, Conn, Georgia (all including electives), Illinois, Michigan, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Utah, Virginia, and Kansas (15 year rule). Tennessee and Nevada should probably be put in this list as well.
States that aren't as difficult, with regards to "GREEN" rotations are Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas (be ready to fight), Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.
The statutes of each state are readily available for everyone to read---just takes a while to get through them all.
State Medical Boards, Physician Licensing Boards, State Boards of Medicine Directory (http://www.nvo.com/promedica/licensingboards/)
Also very important is that a greenbook rotation is almost always affiliated with an academic program in the subject - which means that you'll have lectures and actually learn something.
There are certain hospital administrators and even AUA employees who think, quite incorrectly, that a program is "Green book" if it is affiliated with a Family Medicine residency program. I have personally called the Michigan State Medical Board and they have told me that this is not true. The only state I know of which allows these 'Blue Book' rotations, as they are referred to, is California. And, AUA students can't practice there anyway.
The above stuff about Greenbook rotations applies to the core rotations. There are only two states that require Greenbook electives, that I know of, and those are TX and PA. I think that you should do Green electives as well, simply because it is a better learning experience. Take advantage of the fact that AUA students can do 3 months of rotations in hospitals not affiliated with the school to schedule these Greenbook electives.
Finally, you need to be able to independently verify the greenbook status of any given rotation - otherwise you will be mislead. For example, if you want to check if your Internal Medicine rotation at Harbor Hospital is Greenbook, go to
1. Go to ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access (http://www.acgme.org/adspublic),
2. Click on Accredited Programs (left column)
3. Select "Internal Medicine" and "Maryland"
4. You'll see Harbor Hospital on the list
Now here's the tricky part. How do you verify that a hospital without a Greenbook rotation is affiliated with one that is? That's the case with Ob/Gyn at Harbor Hospital.
1. Call Harbor Hospital and ask them exactly how the Ob rotation is Green
2. They will tell you that it is through the University of Maryland
3. Go to ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access (http://www.acgme.org/adspublic)
4. Click on Accredited Programs (left column)
5. Select "Obstetrics and Gynecology" and "Maryland"
6. Click on View Details to the left of "University of Maryland"
7. You'll see Harbor Hospital if you scroll all the way down
Umm.. can't think of much else...... ill keep this post updated I guess.
If there are mistakes in this post, just post it in a reply and I'll fix it.
Update 1:
Just because a program is Greenbook doesn't always mean that it provides a good learning experience. For example, I did family medicine at Jackson Park Hospital. They sent me to some satellite clinic where I was supervised by a PA who made it clear that she didn't want a student following her around and therefore I learned nothing at all. But, on paper, it says Jackson Park Hospital and my evaluation is signed by an MD.