USMLE eligibility

[rlewkowski]

To be eligible for Step 1, Step 2 CK, and Step 2 CS, you must be officially enrolled in a medical school located outside the United States and Canada that is listed in IMED, available on the ECFMG website, both at the time that you apply and at the time you take the exam. In addition, the “Graduation Years” in IMED for your medical school must be listed as “Current” at the time you apply and at the time you take the exam.

Source: ECFMG

[Genossa maximillian]

..and with no intention of flaming or anything like that, is your school IMED listed? Curacao, correct? Netherlands Antilles? I can't find it listed.


To be eligible for Step 1, Step 2 CK, and Step 2 CS, you must be officially enrolled in a medical school located outside the United States and Canada that is listed in IMED, available on the ECFMG website, both at the time that you apply and at the time you take the exam. In addition, the “Graduation Years” in IMED for your medical school must be listed as “Current” at the time you apply and at the time you take the exam.

Source: ECFMG

[rlewkowski]

..and with no intention of flaming or anything like that, is your school IMED listed? Curacao, correct? Netherlands Antilles? I can't find it listed.

CMU is awaiting IMED listing, however that the proof that all the courses taken now will be accepted and students will be able to take USMLE exams without any problems.
This should end the rumor about our courses not being recognized at the time of step 1 examination.

[shayloure]

But I thought you said that the school has to be IMED listed at the time of application. So your current students will be given retroactive treatment?

[rlewkowski]

But I thought you said that the school has to be IMED listed at the time of application. So your current students will be given retroactive treatment?

You were misled since I have talked to the Director of ECFMG yesterday and there is no need for CMU to be listed at the time of application, therefore no retroactive treatment is necessary and all credits earned at CMU will be honored at the time of Step1.
ECFMG 2007 Information Booklet - Examination Requirements (http://www.ecfmg.org/2007ib/ibexam.html)

[dt]

Could you instead provide proof that the Government of Curacao has given you a permit to operate a medical school and grant MD degrees? I believe you had said that in early June or May(?) that you would get such proof onto your website. Perhaps you have, but I dont see it under your accreditation link on your webpage.

[dt]

From ECFMG 2007 Information Booklet - Examination Requirements (http://www.ecfmg.org/2007ib/ibexam.html)


Medical School Students

To be eligible for Step 1, Step 2 CK, and Step 2 CS, you must be officially enrolled in a medical school located outside the United States and Canada that is listed in IMED (http://imed.ecfmg.org/) both at the time that you apply and at the time you take the exam. In addition, the "Graduation Years" in IMED for your medical school must be listed as "Current" at the time you apply and at the time you take the exam. Your Medical School Dean, Vice Dean, or Registrar must certify your current enrollment status. The certification must be signed by the official within four months of its receipt by ECFMG. As soon as you graduate and receive your medical diploma, you must send two photocopies of your medical diploma and one full-face color photograph to ECFMG (see Provision of Credentials and Translations (http://www.ecfmg.org/2007ib/ibmec.html#provisionofcredentials)). The photograph that you send must be current; it must have been taken within six months of the date that you send it. A photocopy of a photograph is not acceptable.



Let's look at this quote I am highlighting in bold: "you must be officially enrolled in a medical school located outside the United States and Canada that is listed in IMED (http://imed.ecfmg.org/) both at the time that you apply and at the time you take the exam."

It says that the school must be listed in IMED at the time a student applies.

It seems to me that current CMU students may not be eligible to write the USMLE since CMU is not currently listed with IMED.

Or am I misreading?

[slevit1]

Rlewkowski...you just proved the opposite of what you intended. CMU students will not be eligible to take the USMLE. Whether you have applied or not, CMU is currently NOT listed by IMED. Since you were not (and are not) listed, then everyone who has already applied will not be eligible to take the USMLE.

So, for anyone considering applying to CMU...like we've said countless times before on this forum:

CMU Students ARE NOT eligible to take the USMLE and according WILL NOT be eligible for US licensure.

[rokshana]

i think his point is that they have to be IMED listed when their students apply for the USMLE (not to CMU) and since their students are all 1st year students, they technically have 1 1/2 years to get the IMED listing before any of their students have to worry about it.

but...this is based on an assumed notion that CMU will GET IMED listing. Now the probablity that they will get it is good so long as the can show IMED a charter from the NA ( i mean IMED isn't all that picky- their requirements are pretty general) and there's the rub...CMU has still to produce any proof of this (as dt pointed out)

the question prospective students needs to ask themselves- are they willing to risk CMU not getting IMED listing in time for them to take step I to attend there? And are there other schools that they can get into that already have their IMED listing?

[rlewkowski]

i think his point is that they have to be IMED listed when their students apply for the USMLE (not to CMU) and since their students are all 1st year students, they technically have 1 1/2 years to get the IMED listing before any of their students have to worry about it.


At least Rokshana got it.
Dear slevit1
Please read the ECFMG Booklet carefully and realize that CMU has to be listed when student apply for Step 1 (not to CMU)

[rokshana]

At least Rokshana got it.
Dear slevit1
Please read the ECFMG Booklet carefully and realize that CMU has to be listed when student apply for Step 1 (not to CMU)

rokshana got the other part of it too- you need to be a school recognized by a country to be able to award MD degrees- as dt ask- you said that you(as in CMU) would be able to show this end of may, mid june- it is now July - as still - NOTHING!!

Yes we are skeptical, but are willing to acknowledge when we are wrong- but so far (at least mine) the opinion is that we are not- CMU has shown no proof (and yes you do have the burden of proof here) that you are

1. recognized by the netherland antillies as a legit med school
2. that FAIMER/IMED is considering your application
3. that WHEN CMU student do apply for Step I, that they will be recognized as eligible applicants

as dt pointed out- you set the timeline for when CMU would have these documents- so now show us said documentation.

[dt]

oh that dt!

[dt]

I received clarification from ECFMG today. Here is what they say about eligibility of medical students applying.


you must be officially enrolled in a medical school located outside the United States and Canada that is listed in IMED <http://imed.ecfmg.org (http://imed.ecfmg.org/)> both at the time that you apply for the exam and at the time you take the exam. In addition, the "Graduation Years" in IMED for your medical school must be listed as "Current" at the time you apply and at the time you take the exam.


The part I highlighted in bold means that CMU students in order to write the ECFMG exam should wait for the school to be listed on IMED before applying to write the exam.

So, I interpreted wrong in my eariler post in this thread and hope this post clears it up.

[studentdoctobe]

LOL and CMU is not listed.
IMED - FAIMER International Medical Education Directory - Search Results (http://imed.ecfmg.org/results.asp?country=665&school=&currpage=1&cname=NETHERLANDS+ANTILLES&city=&region=CA&rname=Central+America%2FCaribbean&psize=25)

[fossildoc]

To be eligible for Step 1, Step 2 CK, and Step 2 CS, you must be officially enrolled in a medical school located outside the United States and Canada that is listed in IMED, available on the ECFMG website, both at the time that you apply and at the time you take the exam. In addition, the “Graduation Years” in IMED for your medical school must be listed as “Current” at the time you apply and at the time you take the exam.

Source: ECFMG

The above quote comes from a section of the ECFMG 2007 Information Booklet, at ECFMG 2007 Information Booklet - Examination Requirements (http://www.ecfmg.org/2007ib/ibexam.html), but it is under the section heading, "Medical School Students". However, there is a section beneath it, "Medical School Graduates", which is very clear. Specifically, if you already have an MD, you can take the Steps without any involvement (like "sponsorship") from your school, except for a transcript. This factoid is conveniently omitted by med schools who would like to keep us on a string as long as possible. Although some schools require Step 1 for graduation, it is not really necessary for the MD; nor is Step 1 required for rotations in many "green book" hospitals in the U.S.

I recommend avoiding any school which requires Step 1 for graduation.

[finishingfifth]

these schools are set up with intent of creating physicians who wish to practice in the US. So, requiring a passing step 1 isnt a big deal. I really dont think you should be able to see patients if you cant pass this test.

[fossildoc]

these schools are set up with intent of creating physicians who wish to practice in the US. So, requiring a passing step 1 isnt a big deal. I really dont think you should be able to see patients if you cant pass this test.

I understand and respect your reasoning, but I disagree. A student may be unable to pass Step 1 for legitimate reasons. For example, a student may be smarter than everybody else taking the exam but may be unable to retrieve the answers in the time allotted due to age or other handicap. Such a student may make a fine researcher, where you don't have to think fast on your feet, but without that pigskin (well, plastic), s/he is not going anywhere.

Some of the schools which require Step 1 have told me that they will waive this requirement if the student indicates s/he doesn't intend to practice in the U.S., and some will not. I've long forgotten the specific schools, as I am in a school that does not require Step 1. Nevertheless, it is an issue which students should nail down before enrolling, i.e., get in writing whether the school will waive Step 1.

As for not being able to see patients if you can't pass this test, the world is full of countries (most of them) who don't use Step 1. They have their own tests. The entire Spanish-speaking world has tests in their langauge, and some of the students in my school will be returning to their native countries to take those tests. They wouldn't have a prayer of passing Step 1 because of the language barrier, yet they are very smart. Are they unfit to see patients because they can't pass Step 1? Possibly you meant that statement to apply only to U.S. docs.

Even for American-raised docs practicing in the U.S., how do you know there is a relationship between their skill set and passing Step 1? Maybe there is, I don't know. But you made the statement, so I would like to see the research literature that supports the correlation between Step 1 and effectiveness as a physician. ECFMG is a relatively new entity, and it wasn't so long ago that states did their own thing instead of outsourcing their testing to a private company which has come to think of themselves as a government agency. Were those states licensing incompetent docs because they didn't sign on to Step 1? I really don't know, but apparently you do, so could you please post links to literature that support this.

[rokshana]

Some of the schools which require Step 1 have told me that they will waive this requirement if the student indicates s/he doesn't intend to practice in the U.S., and some will not.

As for not being able to see patients if you can't pass this test, the world is full of countries (most of them) who don't use Step 1.

Most of more established schools in the Caribbean do require step I, and II CK and CS as requirements for graduating- would you advise most prospectives to stay away from SGU, AUC, Ross, etc?

Many of these schools won't require the tests from students who are not planning on practicing in the US, but will require an inhouse test that is equivalent- if these people are not from English speaking countries but have studied for 4 years in English, they certainly should have the capablities to pass a test in English.

Even for American-raised docs practicing in the U.S., how do you know there is a relationship between their skill set and passing Step 1?

ECFMG is a relatively new entity, and it wasn't so long ago that states did their own thing instead of outsourcing their testing to a private company which has come to think of themselves as a government agency. Were those states licensing incompetent docs because they didn't sign on to Step 1? I really don't know, but apparently you do, so could you please post links to literature that support this.

maybe before, but these people are looking to practice in the US NOW- and now to get an ACGME residency (or just to paticipate in the match)- a student has to have passed all parts of step I and step II- schools that graduate (and take money for 4 years from) a US student without the basic requirements to get a residency in the US are doing a great disservice to the student. There may not be any correlation, but it doesn't matter - to train and practice in the US, you need to pass the steps.


lets face it- the steps are not that hard to PASS- getting a great score is a different story....

[fossildoc]

I don't recommend any student staying away from anything that seems to fit his/her needs, with the exception of MUAB, which doesn't fit anybody's needs.

For myself, I would avoid schools that rely on an outside private company's tests, irrespective of the relationship of those tests to U.S. licensure. The school should award the MD based on its own standards, not someone else's. I'm aware that most would disagree, but that is my opinion. My ability to pass Step 1 or any other test of any country depends on how aggressively I have read my textbooks, not on any browbeating by the school to keep me on a string until they think I'm "ready".

Don't be fooled by schools' paternalistic claims about "readiness". The loan people, like TERI, have been withdrawing fund support from schools whose students have a high Step 1 failure rate, because such students present a risk of default. For second tier schools, no loans means no school.

And don't be fooled by the so-called "Kaplan preparation" or "USMLE preparation" fifth semester scam. It's a ruse to get an extra semester's tuition -- often at clinical rotation rates -- for sitting in a hotel room watching tapes you can buy on eBay for a couple hundred bucks.

The entire offshore medical school system is based on the mistaken notion that we need irritating teachers reading textbooks to us, when the same things can be learned on a toilet seat with us doing the reading. The Step 1 exams are multiple choice, with no practical, and do not require lectures. In fact, U.S. schools are now switching to "consultant" type online training in Basic Sciences, of the same type you can buy cheaply as part of the add-on package that comes with expensive textbooks (you pay something for the privilege of speaking to a real doc about any subject in your book). Yet ECFMG unceremoniously discredits any offshore school which offers any part of their Basic Sciences curriculum online.

The Step 1 graduation requirement is therefore part of the overall business model which is based on preposterous requirements set up by a private company which thinks it's a government. Without an understanding of that context, any argument over the Step 1 graduation requirement is pointless.