Saba teachers

[Tellingitlikeitis]

Just thought people would think this interesting. Did you know that there is no real interview process for teachers at Saba? They apply and get hired. That is why many of the teachers are so terrible. What is the defining criteria? You need to have a white name. The best teachers at the school, as we all know, are indian. But administration wont hire all indian teachers, even though they are better, becuase when prospective students come looking at the teachers on the website, they dont want them to see that they are all from india. Forget who is the better qualifyed teacher. We dont care if the person is drunk, high, or hasnt taught in 30 years or never, as long as his last name is Smith and not Patel, we dont care.

Just putting it out there

[golfman]

What is the point of this post? I think that taking a teacher's ethnicity and relating it to their ability to teach is completely moronic. There are plenty of good and bad teachers at every school in the world and the ethnicity of the professor has nothing to do with it. I hope that when you practice medicine one day you don't let your racial bias carry over into the hospital.

[Tellingitlikeitis]

You misread the post. What I am saying is that the school places the ethnicity of its professors above and beyond the fact of a good medical education for its students. Hopefully when YOU are a doctor, you will be able to read your patients charts, as you seem to be unable to read my posts.

[summerwind]

Do you find it hard to understand the foriegn teachers? While I was doing my undergrad I had a few Indian teachers and I found it very difficult to understand what they were saying.

[Tellingitlikeitis]

yea, some of them were. But on the whole, they are the ones who constantly present you with updated information, and are constantly trying to improve their lectures, as opposed to just giving the same lecture that they have been doing since 97.

[stephew]

actually how would you know? I havent sat in on the lectures of classes ive already taken. Medicine hasn't changed much since '97.

[psychMajor]

you should be gratefull that Saba has given you a chance to become a doctor. I hope you realize this if you ever become a doctor.

my experience of saba has been great so far -- the profs are one better than the other. the island is beautiful and the locals are very nice.

be happy that you are here.

[Experienced]

Just thought people would think this interesting. Did you know that there is no real interview process for teachers at Saba? They apply and get hired. That is why many of the teachers are so terrible. What is the defining criteria? You need to have a white name. The best teachers at the school, as we all know, are indian. But administration wont hire all indian teachers, even though they are better, becuase when prospective students come looking at the teachers on the website, they dont want them to see that they are all from india. Forget who is the better qualifyed teacher. We dont care if the person is drunk, high, or hasnt taught in 30 years or never, as long as his last name is Smith and not Patel, we dont care. Just putting it out there

Please name me ONE bad professor currently at SUSM. One. You can PM me or use initials, but I'd love to know who Telling thinks is below his standards. Then we'll compare your current GPA with the GPA of that prof when she/he was where you are now. Catch my drift?

E.

[playarf]

i think SABA has put together a really good faculty...
i completely disagree that brown profs are better than white...some are good, some could be better, but they all try their best...
anyhow, its quite shameful and disappointing to see such ethnocentric thinking from a future physician...

[Boulderunner]

. The best teachers at the school, as we all know, are indian....


wow. thats about the most racist statement Ive heard here in a while...
All the profs Ive had at Saba have been top notch, regardless of their ethnic background, or screening process. Ive had Nobel Prize winning scientists teach my classes back home and I think that ALL the profs at Saba are just as good. And based on your history of negative posts it seems like youve got an axe to grind...You should be kissing the admins F****** *** that you even get a chance to be a doc. OR perhaps your blaming Saba on your sub par step 1 score.....

[morefunmd]

wow. thats about the most racist statement Ive heard here in a while...
All the profs Ive had at Saba have been top notch, regardless of their ethnic background, or screening process. Ive had Nobel Prize winning scientists teach my classes back home and I think that ALL the profs at Saba are just as good. And based on your history of negative posts it seems like youve got an axe to grind...You should be kissing the admins F*&&*ing **** that you even get a chance to be a doc. OR perhaps your blaming Saba on your sub par step 1 score.....

I think what he is saying is not that white profs are worst then browns or vice versa, but he states that "some white profs get hired faster to fill the position than non white competitors." Schools do fill positions in equal employment opportunity axis all the time and it is understandable if white profs are not too many in the campus. Did anybody check the statistics?:roll: Nevertheless, preferential hiring does not make the white prof necessarily a bad prof. I am sure s/he met the criteria to apply for the position to start with.

I remember having a conversation with a caucasian student while back about another caucasian student's disciplinary action(btw, I am a caucasian). What she insisted about that "non of the caribbean schools would dismiss a caucasian student from their schools, because they need them to show in the campus." Is this a reasonable opinion? I don't believe so...

Another conversation I had today with an African descendent student was that HIV/AIDS grants from NIH were given to African students/faculty in higher rates than their caucasian counterparts. Do you aggree with that statement?

I think it is great that these topics are coming while we are students, because they will not go away when we start practicing medicine (what happy feeling I have), and let's hope that we'll be open minded and critical in our judgements what ever the circumstances we are in.

[playarf]

this is extremely insulting to the profs who read valuemd.

[medschool22]

simply a pointless thread

[JLea]

Just thought people would think this interesting. Did you know that there is no real interview process for teachers at Saba? They apply and get hired. That is why many of the teachers are so terrible. What is the defining criteria? You need to have a white name. The best teachers at the school, as we all know, are indian. But administration wont hire all indian teachers, even though they are better, becuase when prospective students come looking at the teachers on the website, they dont want them to see that they are all from india. Forget who is the better qualifyed teacher. We dont care if the person is drunk, high, or hasnt taught in 30 years or never, as long as his last name is Smith and not Patel, we dont care.

Just putting it out there

Do you work in Gardner? Are you privy to the interview process? Are you absolutely sure of the "facts" that you claim in your above post?

I hope that if you are ever given the privilege to be a physician that you will be sure of your "facts" before you put them in the chart. (Which, by the way, I know that Golfman will be able to read with no problem.)

You obviously haven't looked around campus. The mix of professors is about 50/50. Amazingly, not one of them is named either "Smith" or "Patel!"

The professors at Saba are on par with professors that I've had at many institutions in the US. Some of them are far above the quality of professors in the US. Additionally, they are here to teach, not do research.

Mr. or Ms. Tellingitlikeitis, you seem to have a major chip on your shoulder about Saba University School of Medicine. Your posts have bordered upon libelous. If I were you, I'd be careful; Saba's lawyers might figure out who you are and take you to court.

Beyond the possibility of being sued, if you truly are a Saba student you're not helping your chances of success in the future...

"Hello Dr. Tellingitlikeitis, I'm the Director of Medicine of the hospital where you are applying for credentials. Where did you say you went to Medical School?"

"Saba University School of Medicine," you reply.

"Saba?!? I read about that garbage dump in the Internet... there's a website called valuemd that I visit every so often... Sorry Dr. Tellingitlikeitis, I cannot grant you privileges at this hospital; your medical education was too subpar..."

Sound crazy? Maybe, but it could happen.

Find something good about your time at Saba and focus on that. Become an MD and never look back. You'll be better for it.

[golfman]

I had no problem reading your post. I also had no problem extracting your immature and racial thoughts and putting them in front of you for you to see. Maybe the problem isn't SUSOM but something inward. As the saying on Saba goes, "While you're cleaning my yard, yours is getting dirty!" I always wanted to use that on here. Thanks for giving me the opportunity.

[playarf]

...If I were you, I'd be careful; Saba's lawyers might figure out who you are and take you to court.
.....
Oh please, Im sure lawyers have better things to do than chase people who talk negatively of SABA on a public forum. :roll:

[Tellingitlikeitis]

To clear it up for you people who cant understand things unless they explained for a 4th grader. Saba wont hire excellent professors, if they are not white, in order to keep the ratio of white to non white professors up. What that means is that you get teachers, who have even went to HARVARD, who are not capable of teaching anything, let alone attend class sober. But there are teachers, non white, exceptionally qualified, who will never be considered because when prospective students come looking at the website, the administration wants to be able to show that there are "American" teachers, regardless of their qualifications.
Anyway, the interview process that the teachers go through, is a quick phone call, basically can you understand spoken word, and yes you are hired.
Where does this information come from? Well, Im not just randomly making things up. Lets just say that after you graduate form the island, teachers become a little more open with you about the things that go on.
As far as getting sued, isnt this a public forum, where people can go to express their views on things. Freedom of speech and all that? But maybe you are right. Saba is not a democratic country, and neither is Saba University a democratic institution.
Take what you will from this post. All I ask is that you think about it. And having an axe to grind or not doesnt make me any less wrong about my posts, only more willing to share what I believe is the truth.
Wait, you are right, Im having a change of mind. The locals are wonderful, they never rip you off or steal from you. Thank god the school has allowed me to become a doctor, by taking 100000 and signing a little piece of paper.

[playarf]

I think what he is saying is not that white profs are worst then browns or vice versa, but he states that "some white profs get hired faster to fill the position than non white competitors." Schools do fill positions in equal employment opportunity axis all the time and it is understandable if white profs are not too many in the campus. Did anybody check the statistics?:roll: Nevertheless, preferential hiring does not make the white prof necessarily a bad prof. I am sure s/he met the criteria to apply for the position to start with.

I remember having a conversation with a caucasian student while back about another caucasian student's disciplinary action(btw, I am a caucasian). What she insisted about that "non of the caribbean schools would dismiss a caucasian student from their schools, because they need them to show in the campus." Is this a reasonable opinion? I don't believe so...

Another conversation I had today with an African descendent student was that HIV/AIDS grants from NIH were given to African students/faculty in higher rates than their caucasian counterparts. Do you aggree with that statement?

I think it is great that these topics are coming while we are students, because they will not go away when we start practicing medicine (what happy feeling I have), and let's hope that we'll be open minded and critical in our judgements what ever the circumstances we are in.

A lot of what you have posted is based on hearsay and personal evidence - none of that reliable enough to reach a conclusion.

You have also extrapolated the original post into something different.
The original poster was wrong on two accounts. Firsly, he assumes that Brown profs are better than white. This is absolutely wrong based on my personal experience. His opinion is not the word of God and there is absolutely no truth in it. Secondly, even if white or N.A profs are hired faster, its not because they are white - its because they have experience teaching at North American institutes, compared to the Indian profs. If SABA claims that their education is catered to the North American system, then they better have profs who have taught at NA universities. And yes, I do understand that the material is the same regardless of which country its in, but Indian and American medical systems are completely different.

Your story on NIH grants and African American completely makes sense when you think about the proportion of blacks and whites (i.e. you receive more money, because proportionally you are lesser in number). There are efforts to promote minority-led programs everywhere, and thats an example of that. By no means its an example of racism or discrimination.


and p.s. I am also 'brown'. :roll:

[DRDRWMD]

this is extremely insulting to the profs who read valuemd. As professors, they are professionals, and should realize this is a public forum for students to express their views. I am sure they have thick skin, and I am sure all the schools have counseling departments to assist them work through their issues if they do get upset and need to express their emotions.

As far as having professors with accents, I have found that I understand them better as the semester moves on. I have had a few who take pride in their really thick accents and that is just annoying.

[golfman]

Where does this information come from? Well, Im not just randomly making things up. Lets just say that after you graduate form the island, teachers become a little more open with you about the things that go on.
..... Thank god the school has allowed me to become a doctor, by taking 100000 and signing a little piece of paper.

Since you have already finished the school why are you still getting on this forum and complaining about it. Move on with your life and do something useful for society. If you are that bitter about the 100K you spent then tear that little piece of paper up and don't use it. That will really show them!

[morefunmd]

A lot of what you have posted is based on hearsay and personal evidence - none of that reliable enough to reach a conclusion.

You have also extrapolated the original post into something different.
The original poster was wrong on two accounts. Firsly, he assumes that Brown profs are better than white. This is absolutely wrong based on my personal experience. His opinion is not the word of God and there is absolutely no truth in it. Secondly, even if white or N.A profs are hired faster, its not because they are white - its because they have experience teaching at North American institutes, compared to the Indian profs. If SABA claims that their education is catered to the North American system, then they better have profs who have taught at NA universities. And yes, I do understand that the material is the same regardless of which country its in, but Indian and American medical systems are completely different.

Your story on NIH grants and African American completely makes sense when you think about the proportion of blacks and whites (i.e. you receive more money, because proportionally you are lesser in number). There are efforts to promote minority-led programs everywhere, and thats an example of that. By no means its an example of racism or discrimination.


and p.s. I am also 'brown'. :roll:

I think you are right that I missed the point what tellingitlikeitis said about white and non white profs' teaching abilities. I don't think skin color is anything to do how well you can teach at med school level, but your knowledge, experience, attitudes,how well you relate to students make you a well qualified or not proffessor.

I believe race plays a tremendous role in hirings;blacks complain that their African originated names are hurdle for them to be hired in customer oriented jobs even though they are very well qualifid for the jobs.

A school that cater to N. American medical society, it is expected to find profs that have N. American experience. In the States, many medical schools have more Indian and Chinese profs than white profs...This is my observation. Is it wrong to have them? NO! if Carib schools want to hire white profs for the reasons that they belive, that is completely ok with me...

Profs' names make absolutely no diffference for me while I am in the class. By the way, I had never heard the term "brown" until I came to the Caribs...

[morefunmd]

A lot of what you have posted is based on hearsay and personal evidence - none of that reliable enough to reach a conclusion.

Your story on NIH grants and African American completely makes sense when you think about the proportion of blacks and whites (i.e. you receive more money, because proportionally you are lesser in number). There are efforts to promote minority-led programs everywhere, and thats an example of that. By no means its an example of racism or discrimination.


and p.s. I am also 'brown'. :roll:

You completely made tellingitlikeitis right with this sentence above...so race can be used to justify hirings, grants etc...That's exactly what I was trying to say...

[rdecastro]

Just thought people would think this interesting. Did you know that there is no real interview process for teachers at Saba? They apply and get hired. That is why many of the teachers are so terrible. What is the defining criteria? You need to have a white name. The best teachers at the school, as we all know, are indian. But administration wont hire all indian teachers, even though they are better, becuase when prospective students come looking at the teachers on the website, they dont want them to see that they are all from india. Forget who is the better qualifyed teacher. We dont care if the person is drunk, high, or hasnt taught in 30 years or never, as long as his last name is Smith and not Patel, we dont care.

Just putting it out there


There are some excellent Indian professors. There are some bad Indian professors (remember a certain departed histo prof?). There are some good caucasian professors (none named Smith), some are even good despite truly malignant personalities - they teach the subject matter. There are some bad Caucasian professors (I could name a few other histo profs that fall in this catagory too, but aren't here any more).

Guess what? There are good and bad professors in every school (including US and Canadian medical schools). Saba doesn't have a lock on either end of the spectrum, neither does any other school. And playing the race card like this is a pathetic attempt to divert responsibility: Ultimately the students need to learn, and if the profs don't teach in a style the students can learn from, they still need to learn.

[playarf]

You completely made tellingitlikeitis right with this sentence above...so race can be used to justify hirings, grants etc...That's exactly what I was trying to say...
not 'justify', rather 'factor'. The race 'factor' plays a role in everyday decision making and our perceptions of people (either consciously, or subconciously). People can deny this all they want, but its the truth).

And I did not completely disagree with the original poster. I wished that he had used a different, less aggressive approach to bring up his points. Language is a powerful tool and people who know how to use it to their advantage do well in life (from my experience). Oh well.

[rdecastro]

As professors, they are professionals, and should realize this is a public forum for students to express their views. I am sure they have thick skin, and I am sure all the schools have counseling departments to assist them work through their issues if they do get upset and need to express their emotions.

As far as having professors with accents, I have found that I understand them better as the semester moves on. I have had a few who take pride in their really thick accents and that is just annoying.


Well, something I remind myself when I hear someone speak with an accent: It means they speak at least one more language than I do.

When I have trouble understanding a word a professor (of any race) uses, I simply ask them to repeat it. It's never been a problem doing so.

BTW, the caucasian profs sometimes affect odd language structures too: centimeter pronounced SON-timeter, for example. Or try and correct pronunciation of 'medical' jargon using pronunciation styles that are uncommon (e.g, not listed in the pronunciation guides of the major medical dictionaries). Just an affectation, and annoying.

[playarf]

As professors, they are professionals, and should realize this is a public forum for students to express their views. I am sure they have thick skin, and I am sure all the schools have counseling departments to assist them work through their issues if they do get upset and need to express their emotions.

As far as having professors with accents, I have found that I understand them better as the semester moves on. I have had a few who take pride in their really thick accents and that is just annoying.
Its not a matter of being a thick-skinned professional. And the criticism is not completely on their competence level, i.e. if they are a good or bad prof. Because quite honestly, as students, the only relevant criticism should be whether a prof can teach well or not, thats all. Not whether he has 4 dogs or 6 cats, or whether she laughs funny. Basically, all other things besides profs competence level are secondary, and not that important.
The original poster doesnt seem to restrict his criticism on that - rather he questions whether the prof belongs here or not, and then correlates race with teaching ability - which is completely false because there is NO correlation.

[playarf]

btw, 'caucasian' includes BOTH indian and white people.

[sweetpeapotts]

Well, something I remind myself when I hear someone speak with an accent: It means they speak at least one more language than I do.

When I have trouble understanding a word a professor (of any race) uses, I simply ask them to repeat it. It's never been a problem doing so.

BTW, the caucasian profs sometimes affect odd language structures too: centimeter pronounced SON-timeter, for example. Or try and correct pronunciation of 'medical' jargon using pronunciation styles that are uncommon (e.g, not listed in the pronunciation guides of the major medical dictionaries). Just an affectation, and annoying.

well said on BOTH posts RDC! i certaily could not have said it as eloquently as you.

[Experienced]

"While you're cleaning my yard, yours is getting dirty!" I always wanted to use that on here. Thanks for giving me the opportunity.

:lolup:
I don't think it's quite that eloquent on the back of the truck, but congrats that you got to use it!!

[golfman]

Thanks. I feel that posting on here is complete. I will now retire.

[Boulderunner]

I think what he is saying is not that white profs are worst then browns or vice versa,.....

while we are categorizing. did you know that all the Italian Profs are "connected".....

[gianefiasco]

while we are categorizing. did you know that all the Italian Profs are "connected".....


LOL im glad you see the ridiculousness of this entire thread.


I judge professors based on their ability not the color of their skin or racial background. Anything else is stupid at best and racist at worst. the end.

[morefunmd]

while we are categorizing. did you know that all the Italian Profs are "connected".....


I knew it, i just did not want to let the whole world know about it....Now that YOU said it, one more piece of info that I know can go in here.

I've learnt the word "brown" here
I've learnt that both whites and browns are part of the sect of caucasians or was it race?

SABA does not require MCAT yet for the students....(with the same analogy; shhh...they probably don't have interview process for any profs that they hire as well....) Ok ok ok....I was just kidding...:evil:

[JeebusLives]

wait are all of you saying its just a coincidence that all the brown professors are better?

:twisted:

[morefunmd]

wait are all of you saying its just a coincidence that all the brown professors are better?

:twisted:


Is anybody familiar with ratemyprofessor.com? Would not it be great if we had all the profs rated by us online? How they teach, if they are knowledgeable, aproachable, hot or not;) Not that it'd make any difference what so ever what we write about them...Change must come from inside...otherwise it'd would look like another bear's skin(I made this proverb up!)

[Canadaguy]

What a strange post. I'm only a first semester, so I've only been exposed to first semester professors. However, I have to say that all of the professors have been great as far as I'm concerned. They have for exceeded my expectations.

The main histology prof, Dr. S. is a white guy who taught at one of Canada's premier universities (UWO). What better person to learn histology from then someone who has done research and taught the subject for most of his life? The anatomy professors are both awesome: Dr. S. (regretably leaving his position to go home) and Dr. R. Both have been extremely dedicated, and everyone I speak to has great things to say about them. They are Indian, but who cares? They are extremely knowledgable and perfectly understandable.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Sometimes I read the Saba forum on ValueMD and wonder if I'm attending the same university as some of the people who start these threads.

[playarf]

^ofcourse, there is god, then there is Dr. R...

[morefunmd]

What a strange post. I'm only a first semester, so I've only been exposed to first semester professors. However, I have to say that all of the professors have been great as far as I'm concerned. They have for exceeded my expectations.

The main histology prof, Dr. S. is a white guy who taught at one of Canada's premier universities (UWO). What better person to learn histology from then someone who has done research and taught the subject for most of his life? The anatomy professors are both awesome: Dr. S. (regretably leaving his position to go home) and Dr. R. Both have been extremely dedicated, and everyone I speak to has great things to say about them. They are Indian, but who cares? They are extremely knowledgable and perfectly understandable.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Sometimes I read the Saba forum on ValueMD and wonder if I'm attending the same university as some of the people who start these threads.

I am wondering the same thing; that is whether we are attending the same school.

Who said we don't like such and such prof? Even if any of the members revealed such, it matters only to those members, I think.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire....

[aspiringmedstudent]

I am in the middle of 3rd but I think every professor that I have had so far are wonderful. They are extremely knowledgable and are awesome teachers. So far, I think I've had all but..... maybe 5 professors?

It sounds like everyone should take the opinions of the primary poster with a grain of salt.