uk vs carribean med schools, what to choose?

[you5]

Hi all,

here is my deal, I got accepted in the UK and SABA as well.
Which one would you choose?

I guess we all know the pros and cons of geting into SABA.

the pros of getting int the UK:
-well recognized, famous and well established european degree
-modern facilities,established clinical rotations
-european way of life
-cost of studies of 3000 pounds a year

the cons:
-does not prepare at all for USMLE
-very long curriulum
-finally you are still an IMG and I woder how hard would it be to get a residency in the US as a UK graduate.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance to all of you

:cool:

[teratos]

Do the UK. You will have more options open to you in the future. G

[MDXRS22]

But which school in UK????????????
UK is a great choice anyway.

[you5]

thanks for your reply teratos, could you please detail what you mean by "having more options in the future"

Thanks a lot

:cool:

[teratos]

thanks for your reply teratos, could you please detail what you mean by "having more options in the future"

Thanks a lot

:cool:


There is a "Caribbean Stigma" that won't be applied to you as a grad of a school in the UK. There are many people out there (narrow-minded) IMHO, who don't view the Caribbean schools as "real schools". UK schools have an excellent reputations, and you will likely still be able to get competitive residency/fellowship positions should you so desire. Which UK school are you looking at? What are your future goals in terms of practice and specialty?

[you5]

Teratos,

well I have been accepted at he University of East Anglia, Norwich, I am now working in pharmaceutical industry as I deferred for september 2008, this would allow me to get enough cash and secure myself in terms of financing my education.

My future goals in terms of practice and specialty are the followings:
I am hesitating between, internal medicine, ER, family medicine and doctors without borders.

You said that I would still be able to get into competitive residency as a UK graduate, however it still depends on my USMLE step 1 scores and US clinical experience as well, doesn't it?

if I start studying on the first aid, i would have 2 years to go in depth in the step 1 knowledge to be acquired, this would definitely give enough time and I would then be able to kick the step1 b"'"'!

However in regards to US clinical experience, how could I deal with that while the UK curriculum is not structured the same way?

What would you suggest as being the best route towards competitive residency/fellowship in the US?

Thanks a lot for your advice:cool:

[CANeh]

Is the UK program a 4 or 5 years one? 5 year one would be the down side.

some schools have the Graduate Entry program... but this one looks like 5 years. Tuition only 3000 pounds for international??? Really. Nice.

[you5]

it's a 5 year program, and I would pay UK fees as I am european citizen and I would have spent 3 years in europe prior to the commencement of the program.

[DocSpot]

Hey

I actually had a similar decision to make a few years ago when I had admission into a med school in the UK. I think it really depends where you're from.

I decided against going. I'm not sure if it was the right decision, but that was a few years ago when returning to Canada was even harder than it is now. I didn't want to take the British exams and then the USMLE exams because that would be a lot of work (especially when you're still in med school). I found it strange that although there is a "stigma" attached to Caribbean med schools, England isn't really recognized as the gold standard (At least in Canada). From what I've heard, Ireland would be a better choice if you're considering Europe.

Good luck!

[teratos]

I think people put too much emphasis on US clinical experience. The important thing is that you learn to diagnose and treat disease. Yes, some of the medications have different names, and some of the test may be a little different. That won't hurt you much. If you know the nuts and bolts of medicine, you will pick the other stuff up in a week or so. I have seen lots of guys from India, Pakistan etc., systems similar to the UK, and they have not had much trouble adapting to the system. You are correct that your USMLE scores need to be good, that goes without saying. I still think the UK is going to give you a leg up. G

[you5]

Thanks guys this is very interesting discussing my issue with you as you are all bringing very good point, this enlarge my vision which will allow me to make the best decision I guess.

Docspot could you tell me where you decided to go instead of UK med school?

in regards to Gold standards in medicine, I have no belief in such standards, my vision of medicine is not to see things in terms of gold standard, it sounds like everyhting that is not labelled USA is not good, which sounds very arrogant if not ethnocentric.
I have seen doctors from africa being better clinicians than American and European ones. as they do not have technology their diagnosis sense is highly developped. Everyone is different and capable at the same time, al of this according to their own lifetime experiences.

On the other hand being able to assess technology support is a big plus as well. Finally, knowing that there are 43 millions inhabitants (2/3 of France which is 63 millions inhaitants) without medical care insurance in the US,this country is definitely not more a gold standard compared to others;
just imagining almost whole France without healthcare insurance worries me a lot in terms of human right.Moreover as we speak about supposedly the most powerful country in the world (eventhough almost in bankruptcy).
:cool:

[you5]

Teratos,
I definitely agree with your statements, knowing that 25% of US doctors are foreign graduates.
my only concerns is that I would probably have to find some electives in the US or Canada for one year to strengthen my cv.

cheers!

[DocSpot]

You brought up some interesting points and it was great to read them.

After turning down med schools in the UK, I decided to spend some more time in school. I applied and got admission into SABA, Ross, SGU and after carefully considering all my options - will be heading to SGU in august

Let me know if you need anything else and good luck with your decision

[gawtti]

teratos,

would transferring from a school in hungary into a carribean school (top 4) for clinicals a bad idea? thx. cheers!:cool:

[jameslynton]

Teratos,
I definitely agree with your statements, knowing that 25% of US doctors are foreign graduates.
my only concerns is that I would probably have to find some electives in the US or Canada for one year to strengthen my cv.

cheers!I would not worry about that, only top US students can schedule clinicals in UK and Europe. About the "Caribbean Stigma" vs UK or Ireland. I know of two US MD's (from US schools) who did England clinicals and thought they were the best they did. If you did your clinicals in the UK your CV will be very strong. If you say you are from an island school some US MD's look at you and lift their nose just like they smelled something really bad. The reason the island schools started to take the students that could not get into US schools. So there is a pecking order thing going on. You could not get in a US school so you are not as good...

[jameslynton]

...would transferring from a school in hungary into a carribean school (top 4) for clinicals a bad idea? I would stay in Hungary.

[gawtti]

thx jameslyton! this won't affect my chances of matching into a surgical residency, or neurology? i've read a few posts about the importance of US clinical experience (atleast 1 year) to PDs.

[you5]

well, this discussion is very interesting really!:D
In regards to the US clinical: many agencies that offer electives in the US fro IMGs really emphasize on the fact that to get a good residency, a clinical experience in the US would definitely be an advantage when time to match comes.

The good point:my university offers at least an 8-weeks elective that can be done in the US, I am still investigating on the clinical portion of the curriculum to figure out if I could find a timeframe to attend other ones in the summer...

I am pretty more confident since your statements seems to converge to the same conclusion, UK is definitely more beneficial in a long term than caribbean

Again thanks to you guys:cool:

[FLco07]

Thanks guys this is very interesting discussing my issue with you as you are all bringing very good point, this enlarge my vision which will allow me to make the best decision I guess.

Docspot could you tell me where you decided to go instead of UK med school?

in regards to Gold standards in medicine, I have no belief in such standards, my vision of medicine is not to see things in terms of gold standard, it sounds like everyhting that is not labelled USA is not good, which sounds very arrogant if not ethnocentric.
I have seen doctors from africa being better clinicians than American and European ones. as they do not have technology their diagnosis sense is highly developped. Everyone is different and capable at the same time, al of this according to their own lifetime experiences.

On the other hand being able to assess technology support is a big plus as well. Finally, knowing that there are 43 millions inhabitants (2/3 of France which is 63 millions inhaitants) without medical care insurance in the US,this country is definitely not more a gold standard compared to others;
just imagining almost whole France without healthcare insurance worries me a lot in terms of human right.Moreover as we speak about supposedly the most powerful country in the world (eventhough almost in bankruptcy).
:cool:

Bravo to this post! Your word choice in reference to the usual American perspective (ethnocentric, arrogant) is right on target! I could not agree more. Thank you for posting this, and good luck in your pursuit.

[rokshana]

in regards to Gold standards in medicine, I have no belief in such standards,
:cool:

well this really isn't true- because then you wouldn't BE concerned which school is better for you to be able to get a residency in the US- you would pick the school that was best for you.

and not to make a big pro-american stance- but you're a European citizen- why are you concerned about doing a residency IN the US? Why won't you practice in your home country?

[GeorgeMD2B]

If I were you, I would go to the UK, you will have a lot more options open to you than from a Caribbean program. I go to an Australian medical school, I was offered a spot at several Caribbean schools but chose Australia, I have decided that I liked it here in Oz, so I am staying. Registering as a doctor in Australia would be difficult for IMGs.

[you5]

To answer the comments I would say:

1- as you might have guessed I am not anglophone, therefore my grammar and spelling might lead to misunderstandings. Thus I apology for that in advance and thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain;
be careful not to take words out of the context, you would come out with a conclusion opposed to what I meant.:D taking chosen words out of the context would unfairly unbalance my sayings.

I said in my post that we are all worth the same, and I even took examples to illustrates everyone's abilities depending on their own lifetime experience, didn't I?

However I admit that instead of saying"it sounds like everyhting that is not labelled USA is not good, which sounds very arrogant if not ethnocentric" I should have written " it sounds like everyhting that is not labelled USA is not good, which would sound very arrogant if not ethnocentric, wouldn't it?."
I am not 100% anglophone, but thanks god I speak french,english, german, spanish, italian, a bit of croatian.

2-roshana: don't get me wrong, my goal is to get as more medical knowledge as possible, which means a thorough clinical knowledge in its strictest sense, and technological one as well in order to become a very competent and skilled doctor. With no doubt The residency in the US would certainly be a big advantage as I would use top technology medical devices.
however, whether I get my MD from india, ethiopia or UK does not matter to me. What matters is more that to get the technical knowledge I have to do a residency in the US, and to maximize my chances to get in, I should get into a med school that would not be seen as the "caribbean stigma".

3-regarding why not going back to my country: I am french and canadian as well, therefore my countries are France and Canada. I feel French and Canadian as well, therefore I have no preference to one or the other. it's like asking me to choose between my father and my mother:D I can't.

finally I am only interested in specialities that would allow me to work either for the Canadian/britsh red cross or the French doctors without borders.

I hope to have answered your question the best I could.
I guess now we can get back to the original topics of this thread which was :attending UK or Caribbean med school:D

:cool:

[you5]

congratulatoin georges for having gotten in australian med school.Are you originally from the US? if so isn' it to hard living that far from home?
whaT makes you decide to stay in Oz?

:cool:

[dt]

it's a 5 year program, and I would pay UK fees as I am european citizen and I would have spent 3 years in europe prior to the commencement of the program.


Do the UK.

The reputation is better.

As an European your education in the UK would be recognized within the European Economic Area. You can do your residency in UK (or other places in Europe) and can then work anywhere in Europe. Your training most likely is looked favourably in New Zealand and Australia. You cant say the same thing with your Saba education.

If you really, really want to stay in the USA, and would never in your long life leave US, Saba would be a good choice.

But heck, what do I know? You know yourself best.

[gianefiasco]

UK medical schools start right after high school...so its a completely different system. Im not sure That it was even an option for me becasue I had already completed a degree at U of T. UN less you are referring to an offshore medical school located in England BUT after the St. Christophers disaster I think that would be a poor choice.

[you5]

I also have gradated in biomedical sciences in Canada previously, and it is jst gonna strengthen more my basic sciences during the 5 year curriculum in the UK.

Now to be a bit more crazy, a good thing would be to do the basic sciences in the UK, then take the STEP 1 and finally apply at a Caribbean med school fr the clinical part only. Tha' would be nice in the sense that I would not have to stay 20 on a small island and would therefore get the benefits of US clnical rotatons....:D

Just kidding..I am not this would be something intelligent to do..

cheers!:cool:

[maserati]

I also have gradated in biomedical sciences in Canada previously, and it is jst gonna strengthen more my basic sciences during the 5 year curriculum in the UK.

Now to be a bit more crazy, a good thing would be to do the basic sciences in the UK, then take the STEP 1 and finally apply at a Caribbean med school fr the clinical part only. Tha' would be nice in the sense that I would not have to stay 20 on a small island and would therefore get the benefits of US clnical rotatons....:D

Just kidding..I am not this would be something intelligent to do..

cheers!:cool:



They don't admitt sdudents for the 5yr program if you're a uni graduate.

[Queensstudent]

tough decision. If you have citizenship, take it. Yes Canada does not recognize UK schooling as the gold standard, but thats ignorance on their part. Having interned at Guy's in London and worked with fellow interns from King's College, I can say that UK schools prep their students in an excellent fashion and that most UK schools are on par with the world. Your only problem may be getting residency and internship in US or Canada. I do imagine the UK schools prep students for the USMLEs no better or worse than US schools, but getting the ties and connections (which you could get while doing clincals in the US) is harder. If you choose a caribbean medical school, I've heard nothing but great things about Saba - good school, solid USMLE prep and high rate of residency matching in US and Canada. The stigma surrounding the caribbean can get to some people...and if you do take the caribbean route, don't be phased by the ignorant comments made by some people - (assuming your CDN) if you end up with your top residency choice, successfully complete it, obtain the JI/HI visas and agree to work 3-5 years in a rural area in the US, you will end up in the same position as every other doctor in the US. Or you if manage to get residency in Canada you're set.