russian schools are good?

[edumed123]

Hello, everyone
I was wondering is there any statistics of how many USA students go to study medicine in Russia? Having been rejected by USA med.schools/CAD I am thinking of Carribean vs Europe vs Russia. By posting on Russian medical forum schools was wondering about advantages or why people choose Russian med schools?
Considering only Moscow or St.Petersburg.

Any comments appreciated. (sorry if the thread is repeated)

[bpoichan]

hi there,

I was reading your thread and could feel your interest and doubts about russian med schools. I am american and graduated from a top 10 us university and went to med school in russia.
I was accepted at the university of wisconsin-med school but due to $ did not. or should i say could not go.
My goal was to get back to the US with an accredited medical degree that did not cost me an arm and a leg. I understand that many say .. well when you ll be an MD .. you ll make enough money and will be able to repay the debt.. well i dont want to have to pay half a million dollars debt.
The caribbean med schools are still expensive for the type of education they provide.. the thing is that americans like them as they are geographically near to the US.. so that proximity factors does affect people. Most profs in the caribbean med schools are non-american trained docs.. and a good deal of them are from RUSSIA.. for some strange reason.
my view was this: well.. all that will eventually matter are my grades and USMLE scores.. mostly the USMLE scores..
i then did not get frightened anymore about a foreign med school.. as i had met many foreign trained docs in the US.. and they told me the advantage.. of not having debts..
why russia? well the admission process is FAST.. i guess that the people were happy to get an american student aboard..
and the most important point for me was the following:

1-In russia, the laws are not as strict as they are in the USA.. I dont care what some russian will reply to this.. i just know it for a fact..
I was allowed to practice A LOT!!! .. i thought to myself.. well .. i am going to a russian med school.. so i need to get something extra out of it!!and that was lots of practice..
i did lots of operations.. did some deliveries.. and was greatly involved in orthopedics and skeletal trauma.. i was soo involved that i was better than some residents..

2- the tuition is cheap.. $5000 max.. only the USA has this outrageous tuition fee.

Now you asked ' are russian medical school good?'... well you can go to HMS and still know nothing.. I have learned a great deal.. spent lots of time using and abusing what was given to me.. so that i d leave the place with no regret..
my buddy took the usmle and scored 93..that s much better than many US medical students.. and i am taking mine this summer..

now let me tell you this..

if i was a rich kid.. i would have definitely stayed in the USA.. that s for sure..
but i am not a rich kid and found a way to make my dream come true.. russia help and i am thankful in this respect..
I understand that IMGs have a harder time getting a residency in US hospitals.. but since we are americans.. it is a LOT easier..
anyway hope it helped.. take care..

[applemas]

Bpoichan, may i know is the syllabus taught in russian medical school sufficient for USMLE?

[bpoichan]

hi there..

well.. NO med school in the world could guarantee you a full preparation for the USMLE. Each and every country has its own medical curriculum and is not necessarily geared towards the USMLE.
My good buddy from the University of Paris Med school.. took the USMLE after 2 years prep..and did not pass..yet the Paris med school is reputed.
That however does not mean that Paris med school students are bad docs.. they are just not taught to take the USMLE.

well .. that said.. at PFU, I can say that I was exposed to all the main pathologies that are to be known for the USMLE..of course the obscure diseases that are not high-yield are not.. the basic sciences pretty much covered the topics that are needed to be known for the USMLE..
the good thing is that PFU is a 6 year program.. so if you have the motivation and wits to work hard. and also learn a lot .. you can not only be really well prepared for the USMLE but also will be able to actually do some interventional medicine!!
but i am not saying ' hey! as soon as you re done at PFU.. you can walk in any Prometric center and sit for the USMLE' that would be pure suicide..

a buddy of mine prepared about 5 months for it and had a 93... i am taking mine and will post my score..

[edumed123]

thks bpoichan for reply, appreciated.

tution is nothing compared to some US schools and I am starting to hear a that students get lots of practice over there. Any problems with safety?

[bpoichan]

Hi there..

yes indeed the tuition is nothing at all..

I wanted to add one thing that i felt was not negligible.. I found it interesting that some russian docs could be extremely good while in the same hospital you ll find the lousiest doc ever.. how come?
well the answer is simple.. it is the med schools.. .. you see.. med schools in russia can make the BEST docs..and the WORST docs.. the spectrum is pretty wide over here..
while in the US the spectrum is narrower.. docs from US med schools have somewhat an equal level of knowledge.. otherwise the med schools reputation would take a hard blow..

In russia.. if you are not motivated.. you could get by 6 years of med schools.. by just getting up.. going to classes .. take naps during lectures..and go home right after class.. during tests..quizzes and exams..(I ll make a thread about the interesting system of quizzes, tests and exams in russia..if anyone wants to know let me know) you could make some cheat sheet and really get by. ..and get your medical degree WITH HONORS!!!.. that s how soo many foreign students from MMA got their MD..now you can guess the type of docs that they ll be..

However at the other end of the spectrum.. if you are a really motivated student with a goal... then russia would definitely give you what you need as long as you meet the right person in the department of your interest..
the anatomy labs, and topographic lab are open for you and you can use them and abuse them.. i trained doing sutures there soo many times on cadavers and spent countless hours that the cadavers themselves were tired of me!!

During the clinical rotations.. all my classmates would RUSH back to their dorms after class, while i d stay extra and learn and do more.. let me give you a few examples but before i do that .. you need to understand that healthcare in RUSSIA is free.. so you will not find patients saying ' I DONT WANT A STUDENT TO TOUCH ME!!' .. those that can afford saying that will be in some private hype hospitals..and if a patient tells you that.. you simply reply ' I AM A DOCTOR' and they ll shut up...:

Internal Medicine: the hospitals are literally FULL of patients.. and those patients are from poor background.. many of them are longing to have someone look at them.. and they ll be happy to see you!

Surgery:I was soo fortunate to be at PFU as the guys in surgery are soo cool! .. they just let you assist at operations..and then eventually will start knowing your name..and knowing you.. and then will give you stuff to do .. the best thing is to find a mentor and he ll guide you..i have assisted and done many appendicitis..some hernias... have even done a treponation (remove the blood from head injuries.) and all the basics suturing and stuff .. but have seen soo many surgeries!!

i could go on and on .. but the pic is simple... if you want to learn .. then the doors are open for you.. especially at PFU.. as they are friendly to foreign students..and if you come from the western world..they ll even be friendlier...but then eventually ..they wont really care. I had to do night shifts.. at the surgery .. orthopedics.. traumatology departments and every time an ER patient arrived...we d rush (actually not rush.. we took our time..docs dont really care to work hard and get paid about $100/month) to the ER room..and i would just take care of the patient..

it was all positive experience..and i am thankful for it..

Now dont get fooled..
I was lucky for the following reasons:

1- I was a PFU student....when i was at MMA they NEVER allowed me to stay after class.. my german ophthalmology resident friend. at MMA. NEVER operated .. he was allowed to walk to patient to the OR and prep them for operation and that was it..
MMA does not allow their foreign residents to touch patients...therefore imagine for undergrad students..so do not fall for the ' best medical school in russia' kind of crap.. cuz MMA is definitely crap..

2- they did not give me things to do the first day .. it took me a week or 2 for them to start seeing that i was serious and committed..

3- PFU was best for Orthopedics/trauma, ob-gyn, surgery, internal med, neurology, ophthalmology.. so if you are interested in getting real hands-on experience in these fields then go to PFU .. you wont regret it.
I know that they were open to students in ENT and NEUROSURGERY..

my mauritians friends and indian ex-classmates at MMA.. never cut skin.. and could only some of them could do sutures on cadavers.. i was amazed of how much i had learned at PFU in such a short time..

i guess you get the picture.. my answer is yes you can get all the practice you wish for.. russia is still backward in some legal aspects and I took advantage of that..
As an UNDERGRAD med student .. i believe that i was exposed to ..and did stuff that many people would do in the PG-2 .

hope it helped..
take care!

[bpoichan]

edumed 123,

when you talk about safety.. do you mean about safety in the streets?? skinheads and stuff?
if that is so let me answer you

if you are white.. you ll be FINE

if you are colored ..or somewhat of a darker skin (middle eastern.. south american)..asian.. ..then there are spots in the city that you should avoid at night and during special events as soccer games and concerts..
that said, at PFU.. the foreign student community is soo large that the vicinity of the campus the shops (as a supermarket and 2 metro stations are nearby) are totally safe..

if you get a car then you are 100% safe anytime anyplace in moscow.. ..well the only threat might be the cops who might stop you and try to get you to pay them ..

[edumed123]

yes, I meant safety on the streets so I guess I am okay
thread about quizzes and tests will be interesting
Overall, I get the picture thx for comments. Actually, one more thing how do you get admitted to MMA as I understood you were there first. What kind of admission exams you took and in what subjects? (were they multiple choice or interview, etc.)

[bpoichan]

admission to med school is not competitive.. no entrance examination is required for foreign students ..you see medicine is not a prestigious profession in Russia..and the russian ' elite' would never consider medicine as an option at this present time..

There are NO Prestigious medical program.. like that of HARVARD med school or JOHN s HOPKINS.... in Russia they are all the same and what makes a difference is how less corrupted the teaching staff is.. how open they ll be to you.. and how helpful they ll be to you.. these are what will make a medical program better than another in russia..

when people talk about prestigious schools in Moscow.. they are more talking about Law schools.. and business schools.. such as MGIMO.. Financial academy.. or Baumann academy for engineering..
as for medicine that does not exist.. unless for the military medical institute of St petersburg or Omsk..which anyway take russian students only..

all you need to do is to contact the admission staff.. tell them about your interest to attend their med school... and they ll tell you to fax the proper documents.. which are.. if i remember... passport copy.. transcript copy...and some form that you ll have to fill ...

now if you are thinking of the MMA.. then i wish you luck as i believe it would be easier to make contact with extra-terrestrial life...anyway contact them and wait.. wait...wait.. and wait..
as for the best place that is PFU.. the process will be definitely more expeditive and you ll get a reply within weeks..
I ll make a thread about the quizzes.. tests and exams..
take care
PS: if you are thinking of the MMA .. i am telling you THINK AGAIN..but again.. it is your decision..

[applemas]

med schools in russia can make the BEST docs..and the WORST docs.. the spectrum is pretty wide over here..
while in the US the spectrum is narrower.. docs from US med schools have somewhat an equal level of knowledge.. otherwise the med schools reputation would take a hard blow..

In russia.. if you are not motivated.. you could get by 6 years of med schools.. by just getting up.. going to classes .. take naps during lectures..and go home right after class.. during tests..quizzes and exams..(I ll make a thread about the interesting system of quizzes, tests and exams in russia..if anyone wants to know let me know) you could make some cheat sheet and really get by. ..and get your medical degree WITH HONORS!!!.. that s how soo many foreign students from MMA got their MD..now you can guess the type of docs that they ll be..

However at the other end of the spectrum.. if you are a really motivated student with a goal... then russia would definitely give you what you need as long as you meet the right person in the department of your interest..
the anatomy labs, and topographic lab are open for you and you can use them and abuse them.. i trained doing sutures there soo many times on cadavers and spent countless hours that the cadavers themselves were tired of me!!

During the clinical rotations.. all my classmates would RUSH back to their dorms after class, while i d stay extra and learn and do more.. let me give you a few examples but before i do that .. you need to understand that healthcare in RUSSIA is free.. so you will not find patients saying ' I DONT WANT A STUDENT TO TOUCH ME!!' .. those that can afford saying that will be in some private hype hospitals..and if a patient tells you that.. you simply reply ' I AM A DOCTOR' and they ll shut up...:




I 100% aggree with you! But, some people (incl some doctor) may just assume that russian medical school is bad by judging the bad spectrum students. Actually, i feel rather bad for it especially when i do my summer practical in my motherland. How you face it. Bpoichan, may you share your experience?

[applemas]

PFU sound nice. I wonder why malaysian government recognize MMA and RSMU instead of PFU.

[bpoichan]

Hi there..

well people tend to you look down at you whenever you do something that is odd..
surely studying in Russia.. India.. Africa.. South america.. or western Europe..will be looked upon with a sign of suspicion.. that is a matter of course..
surely, in Russia we are prone to lazyness as we can get by with it..
the thing is while in med school I DID work HARD especially in the clinics.. saw many many many cases..and had to deal with them myself... cases that students in the states would only be allowed to touch with their eyes..
I read twice as hard..and twice as much...

and yet still was looked down.. but hey.. i am not the one with the half million dollars debt...!

so how did i deal with it? ... .well simple.. i had to prove my position.. show how good i could be and showed that i could do more and better..
i stayed longer than they did.. i came earlier than anyone else.. that did make an impact and people started to look at me differently.. but surely enough .. i had to make sure that i was not just being used as a second category med student that was willing to do all the scut work..

eventuall people started to see how well i could be ...

then the thing that seems to matter in the middle of those conversations is.. ' what did you score in your step1?'...
so i am working hard now to kill the exam.. cuz then i ll be immunized from any discriminating looks..

[bpoichan]

well it all happened in 2002 or 2003 at MMA...then the english medium was still new and the type of students were not among the brightest.. i suppose that MMA and especially its agent MR SAMAN and his company MOSLANKA were doing active recruiting in india..and they probably recruited all the rejects of india...as most of the english medium students were indians..and not really bright at that..

the tuition was about $3000...

one day.. I was told personally .. not to come to the administrative building on a specific day... i remember how OLGA SEMENOVA told me..' DONT BOTHER US NEXT WEEK..so dont come and tell your classmate NOT TO COME'
.. as all the staff of MMA would be busy... I guess all the foreign students were warned not to show up there on that specific day.. and guess what i did.!! ..well that specific day I went there to see what was going on..

What did i see... a group of foreign men.. the dean of the foreign students mr Renat Alayutdin... the agent mr SAMAN...and all the secretarial staff...

they were showing them the school.. and i later understood that they were among the Malaysian gov body ...

the funny thing is that they were sooo well fooled by the MMA people..!!!

they were taken to the best looking hospital that MMA had . at least a department of it that was newly renovated.. if i remember it was the nephrology dept.... and showed it to the malaysian body..and told them the type of facilities where the new prospective Malay students would study..
they took them to some usually ' access-forbidden to students' areas of the university ...
the cherry on the cream was that.. at that time I was living in a dorm that actually did not belong to MMA but to some rundown Russian Institute named PUSHKIN institute.. MMA foreignstudents were to stay there the first 2 years to take some russian classes..
MMA rents the 3 last floors from that building .. the 12th 13th 14th floor..
they all look TERRIBLE.. but a month before the Malay gov. officials arrival.. the 13th Floor was totally closed off to all student.. and was renovated.. i had a chance to take a peek then.. it looked SOO NICE.. i felt i was in the USA...

well guess what.. the Malay officials were taken there.. and were shown only the 13th F.. they were all amazed and were soo pleased.. i just wish they had gone one floor up or down!!!:rolleyes:

moreover.. during that year a Malay girl was studying at MMA.. at that time she was the only one.. and her dad work for the depart. of education in Malaysia or something of that sort as he used to come often to the Moscow-based Malay embassy. i suppose that it also helped..

I suppose that malaysia will see and understand the blunder it has committed once those MMA and POOR RSMU students return home!!

if it was all done fairly .. the PFU would have taken the first place BY FAR!!!!!!
maybe one should contact the Malay gov. and let them know the truth..


Now the Malay students come to MMA and RSMU with government scholarships for a yearly fee of over $10,000 for a crappy education..which is more that twice the normal fee.. russian students are privileged there..and pay about $200 a year..

what a waste.. MMA is getting richer.. OOPS...sorry.. mr SAMAN and the dean ALAYUTDIN are getting richer!!!! and not giving a damn of the real education of those poor malay students who left malaysia for 6 long years believing to, one day becoming full-fledged MDs..

hope that one may shed the light to the Malay gov. as it is turning to be a sad story

[Malagant]

Out of curiosity; What is the average GPA of accepted students? Or is having a Bachelor's an unnecessary side of attending a Russian medical school?

[bpoichan]

I dont work with the admission office and do not have the records of all students.. therefore i wont be able to inform you about students GPA...

the admission is pretty the same everywhere.. which means no competition..

at PFU ..the competition starts when you have entered the med fac.... if you dont take your exams on time.. even a single one.. you ll be in the streets in no time.. if you dont pass your exam.. you ll be out..
no joke about it..
many students are kicked every year... and then are out there looking for medical schools to take them.. like st Pet and others...

at MMA/RSMU.. you ll have many 6th year med student that have not even taken their anatomy or physiology exams which were supposed to be given in 1st and 2nd year!!!

[Mikhail]

Hello, everyone
I was wondering is there any statistics of how many USA students go to study medicine in Russia?

There are no open resources in Russia on how many medical students from the states come to the country for MD program. If it is very serious question for you, try contacting Russian consulates in the states on how many student visas they issue upon requests of national medical schools.
To my experience, medical schools in Moscow get just few American students annually. Also, there are tens of them every year who are doing “semester abroad program”.

[bpoichan]

It s almost impossible to have anyone answer a mail or call in the Russian Embassy..and you expect the consulate staff to give you statistical data.?????
they probably dont even keep track of them!

i dont want to ruffle some hairs.. here.. so i ll try and call from my place and do that too please for those that are abroad..and let s see what the outcome will be ok?

[spider782]

Im a med student in Russia and I can confirm that the practical training you get must be superior to most places. Due to laws (or lack of) I guess.
Ill just give an example, my class was told that the best way to practice different injections is to find an unconscious patient during clinical practice. Kind of says it all I think.

[stillapplying]

Bpiochan:
If you had been posting here 18 months ago I might be about to start med school in Russia instead of another EE country. The opportunities for learning at PFU sound amazing. But the way things were on this board at the time I was travelling to check out schools it didn't seem worth it to go to Russia. Now I wish I had.

Your stories are great and almost makes me want to reconsider since I've always had a strange fascination with Russia and have a bit of a head start on the language. You said in one post you (or your friend?) were better than some US trained residents at doing some practical things. Could ou expand a little (more examples) and say to what degree? Small differences or really big because of the opportunities you had.

Thanks.

[bpoichan]

hi there,

i apologize for not making any posts 18 months or so ago.. as i was still in russia busy with things..
I actually opted for a Russian medical school as i also was ' fascinated' by the eastern block countries and the soviet union in my childhood..
I actually was in an elite Belgian med school but then transferred to Moscow to see how it could be..

I believe that it is not too late for you to apply to PFU if you feel like it..
where have you applied besides PFU?

anyway .. let me elaborate on the clinical practice...
First of all .. dont fool yourself.. I WAS NOT OFFERED all this practice.. I HAD TO HUNT FOR IT..
All the practice was extracurricular and was done in my free time...

most med students dont stay extra time in order to get more practice.. they all literally rush to the subway station or bus station to return to their dorms..

anyway.. at PFU.. everytime i asked to stay more time.. i was told that it was ok..
the best time was probably after 6 pm.. when all the day working doctors were going home.. and the night shift people were taking over..people are in a better mood and you can hang out with them..

the first thing i did was helping the nurse in that floor as they have to give the night injections to the patients.. and the floor had like 60 beds.. so imagine the injections i was making... after 2 weeks i was ok with all the types of injections..
then i agreed with the nurse if i could join her on her day shift on weekends(when i had no classes) ..they always happy for the extra free help.. and then i d learn to make IVs and little extra nursing care.
that was the beginning..


the surgery department is a major center for ER.. so all the accidents.. or main ER cases in the southern western region of moscow are sent to that hospital.. i was with the night shift surgical doctors (2 or 3 docs maximum)..and we would get called to go down to the ER..
then you d see the patients and what they need... acute appendicitis.. and so forth..
now of course at first i was only watching ..and learned.. but then the more i went on night shifts.. the docs started knowing me and asking me to do small stuff.. some simple sutures.... but with time i would do start doing more and more.. (of course that means that you ll learn how to hold the surgical apparatus.. i practiced all kind of sutures.. first alone and then on patients.. )... once you have gained their trust..you ll be fine..

i have mainly spent my last 2 years in the orthopedic department... so did thousands of sutures..
casts for various types of fractures..and at the same time learned how to read an X-ray for fracture..how to reduce fractures..
different types of immobilizations..
and did minor skeletal operations..

i also was involved in podiatric (a branch of orthopedic surgery) treatment of foot pathology..and the like..

HOWEVER that meant that I HAD to read a LOT as well to understand what was going on.. i could not simply go there and just start doing things... i had to learn extra..read..learn theory..and then do it..

in no time i realized how much more i knew.. and how sad the life my classmates were having.. contenting themselves with going to class and then to their rooms..

i eventually was seeing patients alone and let the docs rest upstairs watching tv and doing the paper work.. they would let me do what i had to do .. they totally trusted me.. but i always called them from the ER told them the type of patient that was brought and what i would do .the doc would then agree or correct me and let me do ..then he d come 30 minutes later and see how things are..

that s pretty much how i did it..

PFU has a hospital for all the MAIN traumas in moscow..and most patients are homeless..or poor people.. sad to say but true... no doc wants to take care of them as they wont be paying ...
this was such a great place for practice... and have done A LOT!!!
i happy with it..and i am sure that the patients were also happy..

hope it helped..

[spider782]

Bpiochan:
If you had been posting here 18 months ago I might be about to start med school in Russia instead of another EE country. The opportunities for learning at PFU sound amazing. But the way things were on this board at the time I was travelling to check out schools it didn't seem worth it to go to Russia. Now I wish I had.

Your stories are great and almost makes me want to reconsider since I've always had a strange fascination with Russia and have a bit of a head start on the language. You said in one post you (or your friend?) were better than some US trained residents at doing some practical things. Could ou expand a little (more examples) and say to what degree? Small differences or really big because of the opportunities you had.

Thanks.


There are great opportunities to learn things in Russia, however they treat students like criminals. If you are not the type that can take harsh criticism straight to your face you should think twice before going there.
Missing a class, failing a test or something like that frequently results in things like fines or just being called to the Dean for "interrogation". Some schools employ what is called "the commission", a couple of times per semester they call students to this comission if they didnt pass 100% of courses in time. Its basically a trial where they put you on a chair in the middle of the room with a bunch of faculty people lined up behind desks in front of you. Then they yell a little at you and ask you stuff. Finally you get your sentence, thrown out or not.
It should also be understood that in russia a student is treated more like a child in school than like a grown person. The system is the Soviet one. Politics may have changed but not the extremely bureaucratic universities.

[bpoichan]

I partially agree with your comment..
at MMA it was definitely the way you described it..
as a student i was a NOBODY.. just someone in their way.. they never cared about what i wanted to do ..and they were mainly yelling at me...

and that is why i ran away from the godforsaken place..

However at PFU .. it is totally not that way!! sorry to say... i had some conflicts with some idiots.. but hey.. that s russia ..
every foreign students have rights and treated fairly.. something that amazed me coming from MMA.. where you were constantly yelled at.. and treated as a liar by some alcoholic...

but no commission .. noone to yell at you.. they treat you with respect..
the rules are clear there... you take and pass your exams on time.. you ll be fine..
you are late for exams.. you are out..

as for fines.. i totally agree.. a stupid remnant from the soviet union.. or probably something that was created right after its collapse.. i am not sure..

the thing is clear.. dont miss class.. and take your exams and tests on time.. and all will be fine..


once again that is the reason why i keep reiterating that PFU is the BEST place in RUSSIA for foreign med students.. they study in a great environment.. are treated nicely ..and if you visit the campus, you ll be able to see it in their faces..

if one can do that.. just go to MMA and PFU..and look at the students face.. the answer will be crystal clear..

[applemas]

There are great opportunities to learn things in Russia, however they treat students like criminals. If you are not the type that can take harsh criticism straight to your face you should think twice before going there.
Missing a class, failing a test or something like that frequently results in things like fines or just being called to the Dean for "interrogation". Some schools employ what is called "the commission", a couple of times per semester they call students to this comission if they didnt pass 100% of courses in time. Its basically a trial where they put you on a chair in the middle of the room with a bunch of faculty people lined up behind desks in front of you. Then they yell a little at you and ask you stuff. Finally you get your sentence, thrown out or not.
It should also be understood that in russia a student is treated more like a child in school than like a grown person. The system is the Soviet one. Politics may have changed but not the extremely bureaucratic universities.

It depends how you think......
My advice: Don't miss class! Study for tests and examinations. Near 5 years i study in Russia, I never pay such form of 'fines'

[stillapplying]

Bpoichan:

Thanks for taking so much time to answer my question. The information you are putting out here will be available to people for years and can really help a lot of people make better informed opinions. There is really a bias against Russia even in the rest of EE. But, for you, the experience you gained sounds incredible. Whoever has you as a doctor will be lucky to have someone so dedicated.

The earliest I can go to visit is the end of July as I am in China right now and will be here until then. I have even considered going to school here and am about to apply as I am starting to thinnk the place you are going to live for 6 years isn't so insignificant (I am currently scheduled to start in a small town in Hungary). I know it is possible to grin and bear it but I'd prefer not to.

Are there usually many students around in the summer (end of July)? How many North Americans/western Europeans were there attending your school? Do you think I'd be able to run into any if I just showed up in July? Of course I want to talk to other people too but I think it would be great to talk to people in person who have at least somewhat of a common reference point with respect to schools.

I am quite well travelled and have good experience adjusting to different cultures so I am not worried about the bureaucracy. As long as the extortion is kept to a minimum I can survive.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer.

[bpoichan]

stillapplying...

first of all.... WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING IN CHINA??? out of curiosity? cuz i am in Japan right now!

well coming at the end of July is ok if you want to visit moscow but not PFU.... not many people will be around.. the Campus will be pretty much dead..and the buildings are mostly closed.. as you probably know..in Russia as well as other parts of europe.. when national holidays or summer vacations come around.. they all disappear...and all the offices are in ' pause'...they of course interim workers that will give you the same line " please come in september"
you ll find a handful of foreign students on campus...but wont be able to see the whole picture

If you could give you an advice.. dont go in July.. nor August or at least the first part of august..
I d advise you to go this May or early June.... all the people will be there.. the dean .. vice dean.. and all the students.. i could give you some students number and they ll be happy to show you around..you could still have all your admission process done within a week or so.. you could visit.. apply ..and if you feel like it attend the place starting august..

I dont know what they think of russian med school in Europe..but when i was in belgium in med school .. russian med school had a positive image..
one thing i can add.. my friend is a 2 year resident in ophthalmology and does all kind of operation.. cataract..glaucoma...etc..
he went to germany and saw how the german counterparts studied.. the last year residents NEVER operated.. all they did was just watch..

therefore it is not where you go.. but what you make out of it...and if you have the motivation.. the guts.. and the energy. ..russia will give you what no other place can..

as for the theory.. we are all in the same boat.. just sit and read your 6 hours a day..

[stillapplying]

Bpoichan:
I almost wish I hadn't seen your posts. Now I am really starting to doubt (or at least think more about the doubts I already had) whether or not Hungary is right for me. I'll see what I can do about getting to Russia in June (Visas might be difficult for me to expedite from China) but if I go there I might take a year to just live and study Russian full time and maybe teach English part time.

I'm in China because after I travelled to EE and the ME last year I didn't feel like I was ready to settle down for six years, and I wasn't. Now I feel really gung ho again and can't wait to get started. I've been teaching English very part-time here in China and studying Chinese. I know the amazing improvement you can make in one year of studying the language full time while living almost purely amongst native speakers.

I am starting to feel more and more like Russia is an itch I've got to scratch but I just can't commit to going there without visiting it first and that's kind of an expensive trip (going to Russia and back to China, I should really be here in July for a good friend's wedding) considering I am also going back to Canada and England this summer.

If I do decide to check it out I would definitely appreciate those email addresses.

What are you doing in Japan? Anything work/school related?

By the way, congratulations on graduating from school.

[bpoichan]

well i am a permanent resident in Japan.....and have been living here for over 10 years...
Before going to Russia i also decided to visit Moscow.. and i went in the month of July... i could not see ANYTHING.. at that time i was prospecting for MMA... i had a terrible time finding the MMA administrative building.. and that was it.. it was a week more or less wasted in that sense.. no MMA students... no classrooms to see...although i could visit the kremlin.. red square and even Lenin! But that was not my purpose..
I also was in Beijing for a couple of month in the past.. and found it a lot like moscow.. except that the people were white in Moscow..

As for teaching English i think that you ll find some english schools.. that would definitely take you but not pay you much.. however another way is to do night shifts at the hospitals.. work your butt off.. and all the patients will pay you.. for the sutures and stuff..that s how the night shift doctors get by...
i had a ' rich' patient who cut is pinky finger while washing dishes... i did 2 little sutures.. and got about $300... that was cool!

PFU has LOTs of chinese students..meaning that you ll be able to maintain the chinese that you ve been learning til now...

while an undergrad in the US i met some guys going to hungary..... i can only recall that they were not so bright.. but once again .. i can not say anything about hungary..
the only thing i would tell you ..is, you d better go to a large city (PFU)..than a small town.. for the simple reason that PFU has LOTS of affiliated hospitals to choose from.... whereas a small town med school would probably have a couple hospitals.. with few beds..and i am not sure how much practice you d be exposed to.. and how much you could do..

Moscow is simply overcrowded... the hospital beds are always full.. and you ll alwayws see patients sleeping in the hallway!! .. that means more work and practice for you ..

if you went now.. you could already give all your application info.. and already get accepted.. they ll just send you your ' invitation' in china so that you could make your student visa in the Russian embassy nearby..

then you could go to your friend s wedding.. and think .. weigh the pro and cons.. btwn hungary and PFU...

anyway a visa to russia does not take too long .. 1 week ..
that would be the advice i d give you ..

are you in BEIJING? ... i miss the song lee toon district!! (not sure if i am saying it right!)

take care !

[stillapplying]

Well I've decided to apply to PFU and then worry about getting a chance to visit a bit later.

Once I've started school I guess I'll take the night shift option for earning money. Had never even thought about it.

I'm also really glad to hear about the plethora of Chinese students. Keeping it up seems very worthwhile given China's evolving status in the world.

As for the small town in Hungary, I did visit the town and school for three school days and am quite satisfied I'd get decent education if I made the extra effort although the in hospital experience would always pale in comparison to a best case PFU situation.

I'm not in Beijing I'm about 4 hours out on the train in a small city. I'm here to travel but primarily learn Chinese and here there are no foreigners to tempt my sometimes unfocused tongue from spewing forth English.

I'd love to stay here as long as you have in Japan but as a doc it can be pretty tough going.

I guess your Japanese is about fluent now. How long did it take?

Take care and thanks for the advice. I might hit you up for some more if my application hits a snag.

[bpoichan]

hey there!

well i am happy that you decided to go to PFU... i am sure that you are mature enough to take advantage of the place and learn a lot from it..
the key will be for you to pick up russian as well!! that is really important!

my japanese? well in japan i made sure not to hang out with non-japanese.. i was watching only the " political type of documentaries" on TV... did not hang out with girls as i would pick up the female type of japanese (men and women japanese is a little different)

i was already speaking a few foreign languages (english french spanish arabic) so picking up an extra one was not that hard.. i suppose to reach total fluency (meaning that i could understand the news..read the papers) took me about 2 years.. but one can be functional within 6 months..

i ll may be heading to PFU in a couple of weeks.. if not i know some profs that may help you with your application.. that would definitely fasten your process.. if you are interested let me know..

how was hungary? tell me what you liked and did not like about it?

take care!

[jeniw13]

hi
i'm applying to pavlov med school to start in september- any comments would be really useful-good or bad- especially from current students there.

I'm an a level student in england atm and i need to know the reality before i commit myself fully. Id love to study in russia tho- can't wait to start!!

[bpoichan]

Hi there!

it is always nice to find people soo motivated about studying in russia..
I can not give you the " official " story about med schools in St petersburg .. but i am sure that better informed people (ie: Mikhail) would..
all i can do is tell you the REAL story .. the Hidden stories of what is really going on to the foreign students there..

St petersurg is not a friendly town to foreign students.. every year you ll hear stories of foreign students beaten to death...
they may claim the town to be the ' venice of russia' (which is light years to being so ...) is not a recommendable place to be..

i also was considering St Pet. in the past and visited the city..i visited the dorms.. the students were all confined to their dorms..afraid to go out..
corruption seems to be the rule of the game there.. and no matter how hard to study you ll still have to pay your way out..

pavlov is not really friendly .. and take most foreign students rejected from other med schools in russia...

i guess that some agent approach you about pavlov..
my word of advice is : DO NOT TRUST ANY AGENT! NO MATTER HOW FRIENDLY AND SMILING THEY MAY BE TO YOU..

i d recommend you the best place for medicine in russia and that can only be PFUR..
if you have more questions.. please dont hesitate to ask!

[chygada]

jeniw13: Pavlov is a strong medical school. Admission is competitive.
St.Peterburg is somewhat dangerous to dark/asian people but for white europeans it is not so or at least it is the same as Moscow. Living expenses are cheaper than Moscow+ one of the beautiful cities in the world. Education is pretty strong with lots of theory/clinical practice. Any choice between med.schools in Moscow or St.Petersburg is good. It will depend on living expenses/food/etc. How is your russian?

[bpoichan]

SORRY to say but Pavlov has an easy cake-walk admission..and all the staff is corrupted for sure.. i was accepted on a hand-shake..and if i was willing to pay upfront $1000.. that s what i was told when i prospected there..

PFU has most of the foreign students?? i still beg to differ here..
the med faculty at MMA as well as the RSME have MORE foreign students that all the PFU student body..
I would definitely avoid St petersburg .. it just takes all the rejects.. most from PFU .. they tend to charge the students more.. especially the unofficial agent fee... as the students have nowhere else to go ...

St petersburg is a free market for agents.. even 2nd year students will tell you they are agents!!.everybody will be trying to make a buck on you...

while at MMA .. i had 6 classmates that left to St pet.. first to mechnikov..then pavlov...and eventually to nizhny novgorod..

St pet is a rat hole.. once you ll be there .. you ll be in trouble ...

MOSCOW is definitely the best place.. and you are not in russia to play tourist (beautiful town)..yeah right.. foreign students in St pet.. are 99% of the time confined to their dorms.. and dead scared to go out..and if they do they go in groups of 20...which i found contradictory with chygada s statement about ' strong clinical experience' .. how can the students get STRONG clinical experience when they are afraid to go shopping??!!!!
the reason is that St pet is not a large place.. and foreigners stick out like a sore thumb..

i visited the place for a full week..and after the 3rd day i noticed that i knew the city better than most students there!!!
that was soo funny.. but beared so much meaning to me..

i had the intention to work hard.. to expand my clinical experience..
well NOONE there did that.. and they actually told me that the staff was not to cooperative with the student foreign body and for some reason tried to discourage me from doing that.. weird!!

therefore .. i find what chygada said to be a little fishy... (no harm intended)

Moscow has it fare share of skinheads.. but Moscow is a larger city..
PFU dorms are well guarded.. with competent security guards.. no drunk retired obese man or woman! posing as a guard..
One thing is for sure.. at PFU...no student was killed by skinheads right in front of their dorms.. at ST pet that happens every year.... and the security guard just watched... that s all he did..
the med schools did not do anything about it.. and neither did the city..


now..if you were russian it might be ok.. but you are not.. therefore you ll definitely fall in someone s trap...
go for the safest and best place..

how can you know what and where the best place is? easy.. dont believe what those fake agents tell you .. NOR WHAT I EVEN TELL YOU!!!

simply call those univerities..and you ll already fell how different they ll treat you and talk to you.. !!!


remember people... you are going abroad to study medicine and return home as full-fledge doctors.. you are not going to some place to hide in your room...and even lose your life..
so dont fall to the traps for those agents or fake agents..!
good luck to you all

[bpoichan]

If you really want to get involved... and make your 5 year experience fruitful.. simply avoid St Petersburg..
Pavlov has the name.. but not the content..
it is not too late to apply to other places..
anyway .. i guess that you ll go to st pet anyway.. if you do ... just make sure of the following..
transfer out as soon as you see that you are not getting what you are hoping for... dont just settle for what you ll get and accept your fate..

and remember of the name PFU.. you ll see and feel such a difference..

and then most likely remember what i had told you..

best of luck to you

[stillapplying]

Hey bpoichan thanks again for all of oyur help. Even though I can't make a final decision to go there until I visit I'm glad I'll have the option. My family will probably think I'm a little crazy so I'll have to think about how to break it to them.

About Hungary: I was very satisfied with Hungary and the state of their med schools. I stayed in a small town (Debrecen) for 3 days and got a pretty good feel for it. the program is fully in English and the pronunciation of one of the professors I hear that was so supposed to be really bad idn't bother me. There was the odd non-medical term I couldn't catch but overall okay. The campus and city were pretty quiet. There were students from all over the world but mostly from Europe.

They were mostly pretty honest with me and I heard about a lot of people failing classes and even redoing years. It sounds like PFU is the same in that it is sessential to know their very detailed curriculum extremely well.

The tuition is around US $8000 for the first year and drops off marginally after that. Of course it is not likely to be nearly as profitable to put in a lot of hard hours learning Hungarian as it is Russian as Hungarian has so few speakers.

The distance to Budapest was about 200 km if I recall correctly but no fast road and the train was a little slow. Debrecen doesn't have too many places where you can just get lost in the crowd without worrying about running into your classmates...which I imagine you might want sometimes. The anatomy lab also wasn't a great experience for everyone as it was quite competitive to get a shot.

There were lots of other complaints I heard from students but mostly small things that showed me they probably should have left their parents home.

I haven't ruled out going there but the more I talk/think about it the less I want to commit to six years there.

Anyway, if I have any problems I will ask you for some ideas. Right now my parents will have to send something from Canada and then I'll actually have a decision to make

Iain.

ps You definitely gave me some grave concerns about studying in SP but I am really interested in visiting the schools and city.

[bpoichan]

hi there!!


oh god.. you should have told me that it was debrecen!!! .. i had 2 classmates that transferred from debrecen.. one that did not even know whether his heart was in the left part of his chest or in his right leg..
and the other was fair...

I remember from their testimony that the profs at debrecen would fail them no matter how hard they studied...Money seemed to be the rule of the game there..and surprisingly worse than at MMA! (i had met them at MMA)... as you said.. they would make them repeat years..

at PFU i dont think you will repeat any years.. if you do well in the first 2 years.. you ll be set.. and then it will all depend on your motivation and self-discipline..
some profs will be lousy.. some will be great.. just like any other med school.. and the key will be to keep yourself motivated..

please do visit St pet.. and see it for yourself.. if you drop by PFU tell me i ll give you some people s contact so that they can show you around..and then you can ask all your questions..

good luck in informing your parents!!

[spider782]

If you really want to get involved... and make your 5 year experience fruitful.. simply avoid St Petersburg..
Pavlov has the name.. but not the content..
it is not too late to apply to other places..
anyway .. i guess that you ll go to st pet anyway.. if you do ... just make sure of the following..
transfer out as soon as you see that you are not getting what you are hoping for... dont just settle for what you ll get and accept your fate..

and remember of the name PFU.. you ll see and feel such a difference..

and then most likely remember what i had told you..

best of luck to you

You are almost acting like a agent yourself, but for PFU. Are you really sure its soooo much better there than in st.petersburg?

[bpoichan]

you made a good point..
but the thing is that my fee is $0!!
the actual agent at PFU is named NIMALAN.. and am in conflict with him.. i guess you should read the other threads to see a full pic of what i have been saying..

i am not sure whether PFU is better than St Pet.. i am simply CONVINCED AND ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN..

if all the rejects from moscow run to St Pet..and whenever they have a holiday break run away from St pet to visit moscow.. i guess that it means something..

anyway.. you do not have to read my posts nor follow them..
i probably know a lot more about those places than you do and that is why you are here...
moreover it wont make a difference to me whether you go to St pet.. moscow or karaganda!

i just want to provide honest advice to those that need it.. as i wish i had someone giving me advice when i was still prospecting ...

[chygada]

quote//You are almost acting like a agent yourself, but for PFU. Are you really sure its soooo much better there than in st.petersburg?//

It just his opinions it is all subjective, I like St.Petersburg better someone likes Moscow,etc. You would not know until you see it for yourself or talk to other students (from your own country) who studied in a particular med.school.

[bpoichan]

How could it all be subjective when St Pet is famed for its corruption and to take all the rejects from Moscow?
then maybe yes it is subjective.. i would not want to be in a corrupt med school .. with rejects that dont know whether Aspirin is the name of a girl or a drug...

It does not matter where you are from or whether you need to talk with students from your own country to judge if a med school is good or not..

i have been to St pet.. spent LOTs of time there.. and saw it for myself.. did not like it a bit.. and that is my opinion..

but again.. if you want a medical degree without breaking a sweat.. and without cracking a book open.. then St Pet may be the right place for you!

as i said it earlier.. the best thing is to check it for yourself.. and see!!

[chygada]

As I said in the previous thread, we all have different opinions and it is fine. I am not here to argue but express what I saw and experienced. As it comes down to, no matter where you go your success will depend on your own skills, will, motivation, etc. You can go to some village medical school and be more of a doctor who finished university in big city.
I promise after this I am done posting replies to your low assaults.

[bpoichan]

***************************************

i got a warning and the message above has been erased.. and replaed by stars.. i actually was saying whether chygada was suffering from korsakoff disease or not.. (i believe he does)
i m placing again the message as i was unduely and unfairly treated by the moderator..

if i dont contribute to this site anymore that would be due to the unfair treatment of the moderator ...

guys,hope that you ll find the right information about russian medical school as most people in this room.. mikhail grafov.. and chygada and others are hidden agents hoping to lure you to their traps..
i wish you all good luck... if i get removed from the site.. do not email me to my personal email as i willnot respond but instead mail the moderator and tell him what you think..

i ll now go on to my original message:

chygada you sound like there are remnants of korsakoff psychosis in your speech as i have been exhaustive in my explanation unlike yours short vehement attacks..
anyway you will not be missed in this room
good luck at St pet..
PS: you were wrong again about your view dealing with a village med school story.. but discussing with you would simply be futile...
bye
and come back with another id to this room, as you all seem to do!

[jeniw13]

Hi guys,
bpoichan: i emailed you earlier today, sorry for that, I'm new to this forum and didn't know so many replies has been posted.
St pete's is the course ive looked into most out of all and I was on the phone to a current 4th year there on monday- she's from nigeria but the closest thing i have to a direct contact.
Ive read many of yuor posts and am really keen about the hands on expeirence thing i'm only just 18 but ive been doing attachments at my local hospital for 5 years and probably done lots of things i should n't have even seen yet - it is all about initiative i think, lol.
This was one of the things which put me off studying in england; having visitied several med schools in the past year, i pound a lot of the "lessons" patronising, obviously i don't have the scientific background yet but it made me realise how much i've learnt from being on the wards/ working in a pharmacy.
Tell me more about PFU; I'M INTERESTED!
I havent completed any applications yet so there's still loads of time as far as im concerned.
I do want to nkow how yuor info is so up to date if you've been living in japan for so long- please don't be offended, i have to dig up as much info as possible at times like this.
My russian is strictly conversational in terms that I can order traintickets and the like (theoretically at least) as well as talk about basic education, home life, and hobbies. I can read written and printed alphabet and tell the time - basically the foundation russian language, with some abstract grammar thrown in. I studied German to A level and have basic franch and italian too. I'm not overly concerned about the language barrier as I think i;ll be able to make this up at least in 6 months or so.
You say to read for 6 hours a day- no problem!!! I love medicine; so far its been prettty much a hobby as the stuff is soo interesting.
please keep replying- any thing is valuable to me right now!!
Thx

[bpoichan]

i graduated from PFU in 2006 and was there til last december..so that s the most up to date info you can get..and i ll be going there this august~september for 6 more months...

if not, you can get your info from mikhail.. or should i say chygada? as they seem to be the same person..

[applemas]

Guys, let's all take a deep breath now and have a chocolate or something. Unwind and cool down. Flame wars never do good in the end.
I am medical student from Nizhniy Novgorod. I believe that my medical school gives me good knowledge even it’s NOT in Moscow. So far, i still satisfy with it. If you want to be a good doctor, you have to work hard yourself. You can’t give all the responsibility to the professors/ lecturers.
Near 5 years I stay in Russia, 1 thing I don’t like is university is strongly influenced by agent.

[applemas]

1 thing to remind to those who plan to come to Russia: Don’t give 100% trust to any agent!!! If you plan to study in any Russian Medical school, better comes and observes it. Or ask someone who’s currently study there to share the photos (for classes, hostels), and also other experiences.

[jeniw13]

i recently (as in monday) telephoned a girl i know who is studying in st pete's- she's my direct contact so i'm going to try and operate my application that way- whereever i apply to in the end-.

[jeniw13]

you're info really is up to date then! why 6 more months in russia? is it a clinical rotation or something?

[spider782]

Bpoichan is surely the one acting most like an agent of everyone here. In every other post he is saying "check out PFU its the best!!!".
Im gonna explain stuff to you so you can make your choice better.
More private involvement means more corruption in Russia. Moscow and St.Petersburg state universities are probably the most uncorrupt ones. In those you would probably more likely get expelled for bribing than forced to. Those medschools are however the youngest and therefor have other problems. PFU is old and state controlled also so it might be ok. All others are basically corrupt money-making institutuions. Pavlov, MMA, Mechnikov, just avoid them. You will pay to pass there.

But here is the most important thing. If you can afford any other place in the west, go there. Russia is horrible in every way to live in. You will be mentally changed to the worse for life after 6 years there.
Go to Carribean if you can. Sure you get more hands on practice in Russia but you will get a lifetime of practice anyway when you become a doctor. Its better to get good and solid theory first, that you wont get in Russia, not compared to western places.

[jeniw13]

I hear what you're saying but the move to russia is becomming more and more appealing.
i like the sound of the Pavlov course and am comforted by the fact that i kno someone studying there:)
I spent a lot of time in india last with no money so i'm prepared to rough it for my degree years, i havent got total support from home anyway so it's gunna be an uphill struggle:eek:

it seems now more than ever that i'm in a position to apply in russia and if i balls it up i'm still young enough with little responsibility to start over...i will never be satisfied practicing in the west after having worked in Rajasthan!

[jeniw13]

i still want to hear from you though ;)

[drshoaibsmc]

i m quite interested in PFU after bpoichan but certainly i'll check it out before i apply.
the only way one can be sure of a univ is to check it out yourself.

[applemas]

Although I’m not PFU student, in my opinion, it’s one of the best places to study medicine in Russia. You may consider it.
But, I do not advise any Malaysian to go there.

[bpoichan]

i d advise you to seriously consider PFU..
i dont know if you from Malaysia or not..
but going to PFU.. will at least give you an edge compared to the MMA and RSMU " supposed-to-be-doctors"from malaysia and other places..
..once in malaysia, you ll have to take an equivalency exam..but it ll be a breeze..
the MMA and RSMU docs wont need to take that exam..but they are already suffering some problems in Malaysia..
i d be surprised to see that MMA/RSMU program go on for a few more years..complaints will most likely come out and the gove will surely cancel or reconsider that program..

if you need more info let me know..
i ll be going to PFU for a month in June. so if you need anything let me know..
take care

[applemas]

This message is written for Malaysian who interest to study medicine in Russia.
Malaysia government only recognizes medical degree from 5 academies/ universities in Russia.
-Russian State Medical University
-Moscow Medical Academy
-Volgograd State Medical University
-Kursk State Medical University
-Nizhniy Novgorod State Medical Academy

To work in Malaysia and in order to regester with Malaysian Medical Council (MMC), you need a degree from a recognize university. If not, you have to sit for medical qualification examination. This examination has same syllabus as our local universities (University Malaya, University Sains Malaysia, and University Kebangsaan Malaysia) final year exam: This is rather difficult exam and the passing percentage for those who comes from unrecognized university is only 25%.
Why you want to take the risk to go to any unrecognized university if you wish to practice in your country?
PFU sounds nice, but it's not in the list.

List of recognized medical degree by MMC:
Malaysian Medical Resources (http://medicine.com.my/RecognisedIZ.html)

[bpoichan]

PFU does not need any recognition from the Malaysian government as it has built its fame within Russia...and among lots of foreign countries.. that is why soo many do come to PFU

PFU does not need the money that MMA and RSMU have tried to get from those government scholarships.. a $500 education being charged up to $10,000 per malaysian students.. yeah right..

why doesnt PFU need that kind of money? well PFU s rector Dr FILIPOV was the minister of education til last year.. and still very close to the government and has a nice hump of money allocated to PFU..
that s a type of corruption but a positive one for those studying there..

now all the malay students like to gather in evenings and hang out at PFU s campus.. and eat there..and seem to like it.. how come they dont hang out at MMA or RSMU s campus?

i do not mean any harm.. but the provincial med school are already out of the game as far as competitiveness is concerned..
you have 2 kinds of people going there (i am talking about the foreign students body): 1- those that were kicked out from Moscow...2- those dead afraid to be attacked by skinheads.. and intimidated by the big city..

I wont dwell about MMA and RSMU.. if you want a diploma with honors and not know much .. that would be the place to go..

[applemas]

Hmm……
Study in Russia original was not my plan. When I got the government sponsor to study there, I decided to go there. Why?? Because in my heart, only 1 AIM: be a doctor.
Regret? No, I never regret. Satisfy?? Happy?? Not much feeling.
One thing for sure: I won’t courage my younger brother to come to Russia.
Coming to Russia always won’t be the 1st choice for students. Yes, there are 3 groups of Malaysian students: 1. top students in the O-level exam and get the government's scholarship. 2. Those who have good result, eligible apply for medical universities in UK, Australia……But they have financial problem. 3. Those that had bad result, but still want to be doctor. They would never accept in other place. When they come to Russia, they just enjoy, behave lazy……

[applemas]

I stay in Nizhniy Novgorod.
I went to Moscow and St. Petersburg before.
I'm not praising my place. That's truth. People in Nizhniy Novgorod more friendly than people in Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Besides, skin head problem is more serious in Moscow and St. Petersburg than Nizhniy Novgorod.

[Masamune]

I'm a malaysian too..
just passed my SPM(equilavent to o-levels) and i'm planning to go to MMA this september...Like applemas say..not my 1st choice of course but i don't have enuf money to go any other place...i just wanna be a doctor...and russia will be fine to me if i can be a doctor in my life..

[drshoaibsmc]

well bpoichan (http://www.valuemd.com/members/bpoichan.html)
i m from India,
i had sent u pm, remember?

how is medical univ at volgograd
well does anyone have any info about Poland , checz, and hungary for PG programmes?

[bpoichan]

yes i remember you now!!
well i wont be able to inform you about md programs in other countries..
but if you are coming to russia PFU is definitely the place to be..
PFU has its fair share of indians.

and my advice is simple.. avoid provincial med schools.. that s all i can say..
being in moscow will expose to make contacts..and even work for private clinics..
an indian friend of mine is also working at the american clinic in moscow in parallel with his PFU PG..

good luck

[Mikhail]

PFU does not need any recognition from the Malaysian government as it has built its fame within Russia...and among lots of foreign countries.. that is why soo many do come to PFU
Why then professors of PFU visited Malaysia this year to make an exhibition and contacted Medical Council of Malaysia to organise an inspection of PFU medical faculty?
Just curious

[Masamune]

is it?I didn't know they're here in malaysia...Maybe in the near future it'll be recognised

[applemas]

Future they will recognize? I doubt.
I don't think it's good idea to take risk.
Now, there are 2000 Malaysian students in Russia. >95% are medical students. I don't think MMC will recognize any more medical school from RUssia. (Just my personal opinion)

[Masamune]

Haha..i dun bother..I sign up for MMA ady...hope everything is well..

[Mikhail]

Now, there are 2000 Malaysian students in Russia. >95% are medical students. I don't think MMC will recognize any more medical school from RUssia. (Just my personal opinion)
To be exact it was 1803 students from Malaysia in 2005/06 academic year (5-th largest population from Asia region after China, Vietnam, India and South Korea). May be this year they really reached 2000. Outside medicine, I know some Malaysians studying aviation but that’s all.

May be the good idea for MCM is to recognize let say top 15-20 medical schools (if not all) but organize local exams for all the graduates of foreign medical schools applying for a medical practice at home (like USMLE in the states). And probably make the results public in terms of passing rates for each medical school.

[edward89]

A new rule has been implemented which says starting from year 2010, all medical graduates from overseas be it UK, Australia, US, Russia, Egypt, Indonesia, Europe will have to sit for a paper our local graduates take before they can start internship

[Mikhail]

A new rule has been implemented which says starting from year 2010, all medical graduates from overseas be it UK, Australia, US, Russia, Egypt, Indonesia, Europe will have to sit for a paper our local graduates take before they can start internship

Very interesting… Is there any official source of information for that?
And does it mean they will cancel keeping list of recognized schools and will refer to WHO List of international medical schools?