you canadians apply to the US before SGU?

[nquery]

hi,

so did all of you canadians heading down to SGU apply to (and get turned down by) US schools, or did you skip the process of applying to the US and availed yourself to the rolling admissions right after 4th year, before the fall? (or some other such reason)

[MetaMed]

I think most do. I can tell you I personally didn't because I wouldn't have stood much of a chance.
Some of my friends are debating between applying to the Carib or taking an extra semester to finish up some courses so they can meet US Med School requirements (ex. inorganic chem w/ lab; not a req. for applying up here)

Its trickier for us though, tuition is heavy either way (carb or US) and you really have to do you research. How will the school consider you: an international student, do they have a preference scheme, etc.

[nquery]

well actually i didn't apply to US schools, i'm sorta in a gray zone although i'm thinking the odds of getting into a US school at this point are somewhat against me, especially considering i've taken a year off, perhaps unless i complete a masters i've been offered. but then even after that, i don't think that's great, compared to all the applicants that come into the pool every year. alternatively, i can head down to sgu this fall, and try my odds as an MD wannabe, instead of an HBSc, you know? actually, i've looked into a number of US schools, a whole range (though the super top tier ones, mostly for comparison), and most of them treat canadian applicants as international students, which requires them to have (between somewhat and much) better grades than the domestics. also, i've seen some schools post about their student body where international students account for a few measly percentage points of their class, where canadians are included among the international students. doesn't bode well.

all of this stems from my concerns about getting a decent residency, and then employment. i think i'd be happy in primary care, like, i've actually wanted it as opposed to considering it a backup (but then, i haven't been through med school, apparently everyone changes their minds at some point, so what do i know?) anyway, wondering about exhausting options before leaving the continent, and admittedly being mindful, at least, of the realities of IMG status.

[MetaMed]

Though I haven't done this, I know the conventional wisdom is always to apply and IF that doesn't work out...go off-shore.
What concerns most people, atleast those who I know have/are applied/applying is: stigma, getting through the program successfully (Grades, Step Scores, etc.) getting residency and if applicable (coming back to Can.)
Personally, my stats didn't give me a lot of options and I was pretty confident of not getting very far with US schools. Atleast not w/o taking some significant time, like an extra year undergrad + 2 years masters to really boost my application up.
Looking at SGU's rep, its residency placement list and support services, plus looking into what I've heard from these forums kinda swung the pendulum for me.
From what I can see...SGU grads don't seem to have much difficulty matching into primary fields (if their pie-graph is any indication)
For me...the very real uncertainties about my chances here outweighed any potential limitations afforded by being an IMG

[cavalletti]

Looking at SGU's rep, its residency placement list and support services, plus looking into what I've heard from these forums kinda swung the pendulum for me.
From what I can see...SGU grads don't seem to have much difficulty matching into primary fields (if their pie-graph is any indication)
For me...the very real uncertainties about my chances here outweighed any potential limitations afforded by being an IMG

Like metmed said....if you are interested in primary care why waste 2 years or more applying to US.

[vtrain]

No, but in retrospect i think i should have. Ihowever, its extremely competitive and the tuition for private schools in the US is substantial. You have to ask yourself what you want to be in the end. If primary care is what you want, then definitely save some $$ and go to SGU. You save $$ bc youll probably get some sort of international peace scholarship (up to $73 K) - most canadians that apply do.

[nquery]

well, even DURING my sgu interview, i was told that almost all med students will change their minds about what they want to specialize in. med school's no joke, between the studying and the exams and the huge time and capital investment, and the last thing i want to be thinking about when i'm there is whether or not i might like a specialty that is, while not impossibly, but very substantially held, perhaps understandably, outside of my reach by the american medical system, regardless of how good my education actually is.

i understand everyone has different situations. some are more limited in choice than others. and even if you had the aweseomest gpa and mcat scores, you still shouldn't take medschool for granted, and a "take what i can get" mentality should be adopted if for nothing other than to maintain humility. but everyone likes to have options, and i can't guarantee that i won't fall in love with something that's virtually impossible for SGU students to get.

how do you get over that feeling of being limited, even if you initially fall within the limits? or does no one else share my sentiments?

[CANeh]

No, but in retrospect i think i should have. Ihowever, its extremely competitive and the tuition for private schools in the US is substantial. You have to ask yourself what you want to be in the end. If primary care is what you want, then definitely save some $$ and go to SGU. You save $$ bc youll probably get some sort of international peace scholarship (up to $73 K) - most canadians that apply do.


Hey VT, I just finished my application to SGU and I sent out the scholarship application. How difficult is it to get scholarship, and how much is it per year? I hope I get partial tuition break, it would definitely help me. Is this only for people who wish to go into primary care?

[nquery]

No, but in retrospect i think i should have. Ihowever, its extremely competitive and the tuition for private schools in the US is substantial. You have to ask yourself what you want to be in the end. If primary care is what you want, then definitely save some $$ and go to SGU. You save $$ bc youll probably get some sort of international peace scholarship (up to $73 K) - most canadians that apply do.

hi vtrain,

can you elaborate on why you think you should have applied to US schools? is it becoming (has become?) a problem for you to get the residencies you want? did you realize you really want to do integrated plastics? what're you specializing in, if you don't mind my asking?

[Mayur999]

Hey there,

21 M 3.47GPA 27S MCAT ( 11 5 11) I did infact apply to the US, about 11 schools to be specific and I really thought I had a good chance at them, then I got my MCAT results back and lets just say I was not too happy, I didnt get the 30+ that I was trying to and so It was then that I realized that my chances at a US school were minimal to none. I did however apply still, but have heard back form 7 of the schools letting me know that I have not been accepted/invited for an interview. Still waiting for tha last 4, but I dont think its gonna happen. I am however happy to be going to SGU, I have done my researcha nd its a great school so I thought that I didnt want to waste an extra year and possible not get in yet again. So thats y I did it. Hope it helps.

[alex_shimp]

I applied to US school, I got waitlisted in one, and thats about it, did not get interviewed in others. I had pretty good stats, and I thought i had a chance..

But looking at it now, and from what some schools have wrote me, it seems that when you are applying from Canada you are considered as an international student. So when you see American School admissions stats, they usually do not apply to you (Canadian Cit). So even if you have a 30 MCAT (close to what I had) and a 3.7+ GPA, you are still not guaranteed in, even the worst American School, because the competition for international spots is pretty tough. It seems that a CDN student should have a 3.7 and maybe 32ish on the MCAT to be pretty competitive, maybe even higher on the MCAT, for some of the lower tier schools. For Mid to High tier schools, you obviously need a higher MCAT/GPA.

So the point is, do apply, but if your stats are far off from what is required by the CDN schools, then your chances with US schools is not that great.

I would suggest applying to both, SGU and American Schools..

Also Price is an issue... like vtrain said, some of the private schools can cost close to 80-90$K per year (with living expenses)....

[vtrain]

Hey VT, I just finished my application to SGU and I sent out the scholarship application. How difficult is it to get scholarship, and how much is it per year? I hope I get partial tuition break, it would definitely help me. Is this only for people who wish to go into primary care?
The international peace scholarship can vary anywhere from 8-73K. I applied back in 2003 and this is what it was. it may have changed since then. Almost all the canadians i talked to got this scholarship but the amount given varies on you applica/GPA/MCAT. Someone with Alex's stats can look to get the full amount ie 3.7+,30+MCAT

[vtrain]

yes - you will be descriminated come residency time. and the fact that you need a visa will set you back even more. after u get ur MD and finish residency, unless u go academia, and even then, NO one cares where u went to school. but residency directors do care. look at canada's match stats. one rads a couple of anes and that's about it. think twice before going to SGU if u have ur heart set on the roade specialties. im applying for my 4th year electives and descrimination exists here at this level. for instance u cant do elective at cornell as a carib student but u can as an img. the same goes for SUNY downstate. things like this make ur life difficult. if ur <27-28YO, apply for the US and reapply to canada. Make sure SGU is your LAST option. despite the strides this school has made (and it is VERY impressive) it still is a caribbean school.

[CANeh]

VT, thanks for the scholarship info. My stats are not even close to 3.7/30 if they were then I would definitely get into a Canadian or american medical school. If I get 10k less tuition a year, I would be thrilled.

Discrimination is going to take place everywhere. However SGU is still better than being from asia or africa or middle east or india. I know that it is ALWAYS better to be a graduate from Canada or US medical school. But as a Canadian wishing to return to Canada, do you think DO option is better than carib MD. (just as a Canadian).

[vtrain]

no i dont believe so. There are only a certain number of provinces that accept DO (I think AB is one of them). With allowance to be in the 1st iteration, there have been some impressive matches. Look at SABA's this year and SGU matched anes, FM, and IM in AB this year. i have a feeling matches are only going to get better. If you want to go back to canada I would stick with the caribMD. my two cents

[CANeh]

Thanks that is what I thought. Definitely want to come back to Canada and work in Ontario, Alberta, or BC. But it doesn't look like anyone was able to match in BC. I saw SABA and SGU... pretty impressive. Now that the gates have open a bit... it should get better.

[nquery]

I applied to US school, I got waitlisted in one, and thats about it, did not get interviewed in others. I had pretty good stats, and I thought i had a chance..

But looking at it now, and from what some schools have wrote me, it seems that when you are applying from Canada you are considered as an international student. So when you see American School admissions stats, they usually do not apply to you (Canadian Cit). So even if you have a 30 MCAT (close to what I had) and a 3.7+ GPA, you are still not guaranteed in, even the worst American School, because the competition for international spots is pretty tough. It seems that a CDN student should have a 3.7 and maybe 32ish on the MCAT to be pretty competitive, maybe even higher on the MCAT, for some of the lower tier schools. For Mid to High tier schools, you obviously need a higher MCAT/GPA.

So the point is, do apply, but if your stats are far off from what is required by the CDN schools, then your chances with US schools is not that great.

I would suggest applying to both, SGU and American Schools..

Also Price is an issue... like vtrain said, some of the private schools can cost close to 80-90$K per year (with living expenses)....

i had about 3.5 and 35S, cause of some stupidity in fourth year. but i read the same things about canadians being treated as international students. something like <5% of the class was international, canadians were considered international, and there're OTHER international students within that <5% too, that was from a few different schools. so i didn't even bother applying to the US. hell, i didn't think i was getting into canada (read: ontario) with those stats, but i applied anyway cause, well, you've gotta apply at least once :P

[alex_shimp]

Yeah I did apply to Canadian Schools, no luck. My problem is that my verbal is below a 10 (which is the cut-off). I am still contemplating of SGU, but, really do not want to take the MCAT again, and even if I do the chances of me actually increasing the score are slim (based on AAMC avarages) and there is still no guarantee about getting a CDN med school admission. I am from Ontario, so the competition in this province is one of the worst. I know people with much better stats then me who did not get a single interview, and that is discouraging...

The other option is to do my masters and then try again, apperantly that may help, however, I did hear different opinions on this subject and Masters does take 2 years... (so not sure if I want to do something I do not like and then still not get in)

So overall, looking at all my options as well as the fact that SGU's match list has been getting more impressive, I am leaning towards going there. (I already did send my deposit for a seat in the class).

I guess you have to weigh your options... something I am currently doing :)

[nquery]

Yeah I did apply to Canadian Schools, no luck. My problem is that my verbal is below a 10 (which is the cut-off). I am still contemplating of SGU, but, really do not want to take the MCAT again, and even if I do the chances of me actually increasing the score are slim (based on AAMC avarages) and there is still no guarantee about getting a CDN med school admission. I am from Ontario, so the competition in this province is one of the worst. I know people with much better stats then me who did not get a single interview, and that is discouraging...

The other option is to do my masters and then try again, apperantly that may help, however, I did hear different opinions on this subject and Masters does take 2 years... (so not sure if I want to do something I do not like and then still not get in)

So overall, looking at all my options as well as the fact that SGU's match list has been getting more impressive, I am leaning towards going there. (I already did send my deposit for a seat in the class).

I guess you have to weigh your options... something I am currently doing :)

ya ontario's pretty crazy. i know people with upwards of 3.9 who weren't getting interviewed here. my counsellor in university made a masters sound like a poor stepping stone to medicine in canada, and probably the US as well. the misconception is there because at one point, several decades ago, a masters could actually be a realistic alternative path to getting into medicine. he told me how he had 5 senior TAs, some of which were PhD candidates and one of them MAYBE stood a chance of getting in, after several reapplications.

a masters would take longer than 2 years, depending on what you're doing. medical genetics and biochem can take 3 years

[alex_shimp]

ya ontario's pretty crazy. i know people with upwards of 3.9 who weren't getting interviewed here. my counsellor in university made a masters sound like a poor stepping stone to medicine in canada, and probably the US as well. the misconception is there because at one point, several decades ago, a masters could actually be a realistic alternative path to getting into medicine. he told me how he had 5 senior TAs, some of which were PhD candidates and one of them MAYBE stood a chance of getting in, after several reapplications.

a masters would take longer than 2 years, depending on what you're doing. medical genetics and biochem can take 3 years


Yep, and a masters will not help you later on in life, or at least not to a great extend. So instead of doing it to try and improve your application, might as well go to SGU, and in 4 years you will be an MD...

But like someone said before, if you hope to get into a very competitive residency, it may not be a great option, especially for Canadians..

I am personally not too keen on those high-paying specialties so for me its not so much of a problem.

[nquery]

yeah, whether or not we're right, i share your sentiments about a masters. it'd be different if you were aiming for a PhD, but personally i'm not, so it's not an issue. except possibly a masters in public health, but what do i know?

i think i mentioned this, i'm not too keen on the super highly competitive specialties right now. i've wanted internal or family. what i don't like is the fact of the limitation, because maybe i'll end up enjoying a competitive specialty, but i'll be limited, even more so as a canadian.

at some point, i'm not so keen on high-paying salary as much as i'm concerned with getting to see patients but also having some sort of personal life. i wouldn't want to be a surgeon, who has to miss the birth of his first child, be stuck in an OR during some family emergency; stereotypical, but you get the gist?

so as i recall, my question was how are people dealing with that, the limitations? i mean, for you it's a non-issue, i guess



Yep, and a masters will not help you later on in life, or at least not to a great extend. So instead of doing it to try and improve your application, might as well go to SGU, and in 4 years you will be an MD...

But like someone said before, if you hope to get into a very competitive residency, it may not be a great option, especially for Canadians..

I am personally not too keen on those high-paying specialties so for me its not so much of a problem.

[CANeh]

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[CANeh]

What limitations???? Residency limitations??

Think about it this way.. on one side, MEDICINE and residency limitation on the other side, NO MEDICINE and NO NEED FOR RESIDENCY

[nquery]

yeah, limitations for residency. medicine doesn't mean much if you can't practice, and it'd be pretty unpleasant to be stuck with a residency you don't like, because that'll probably be what you do for a big part of your career. residencies aren't all equal, specialties aren't all equal, it's hard to judge before actually going through medschool what you'd like, and it's somewhat naive to think that you'd uniformly enjoy all aspects of medicine, just as it'd be naive to think you'd uniformly enjoy all aspects of any job, even thought i know what you mean by simply stating MEDICINE as an argument, it's a strong one, so i guess you answered my question, haha

[CANeh]

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[CANeh]

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[alex_shimp]

Hi, it took me a few weeks..