Repeating and Dismissal?

[PiccoloPlaya]

Hello everyone,

I am a first semester. I know there is no probation at Ross anymore, so if you fail any class, even by one percent, you have to repeat the entire semester. There are plenty of people repeating because they failed 1-2 classes, so this is not something to be ashamed of, but you must be very careful the second time around and make sure that you will not fail anything again because it is your last chance. Out of your 5 classes, if you fail 3 or more classes, you are recommended for dismissal but you can appeal this decision and ask if you can repeat the semester when you are in front of the promotions committee. Does anyone know what percentage of people who appeal the decision are dismissed? I have heard you are likely to get thrown out if you have to face the committee. Can some of you upperclassmen elaborate on this? Such as, do you personally know people who were thrown out and what their cases were? Thank you.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Oh yeah, if you or someone you know was dismissed and you don't want to put the details on a public forum, I totally understand, so feel free to PM me. By the way, this isn't to poke fun or belittle people, I'm just curious.

[marywinston45]

Hi everyone,

Well I'm a first semester and looking at my stats I think I might be repeating this semester. For example MPS for biochem I think is 57 and I'm 45 and also I am barely passing all my other classes. I do study A LOT but I guess my study technique is not working as well as others.

One of my question is whether it is really worth it to repeat semesters considering everyone has been saying first semester is the easiest and everyone does well in it.

Have you heard of any students who end up repeating first semester then does well and eventually graduate? Because if there is hope I might repeat the semester but also I am considering taking time off and take a few courses and then reapplying to another carribean school/osteopathic school, anyone know someone who did this as well?

Thanks in advance

[PiccoloPlaya]

You are not alone. Everyone is scared.

[emt2md]

Look if you are failing MOST of your classes you need to re-evaluate your medical career. Personally I don't think repeating is a good idea. This simple thinking got me through my basic sciences with 4.0. I am studying for my future patients not myself. Good luck, everyone has their own special ability find yours.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Well...some people just get off on a rocky start. Med school is a completely different ballgame and an adjustment period is needed for some people...basically I think we should be given one chance to repeat the semester, and then after that if you keep on failing, yes it's time to find a new career or transfer to another caribbean school, but if you give up this easily just because of one setback you'll never make it in ANY career.

[gimmeaknyfe]

I agree with emt2md - if you fail your first semester here in more than one course, you should really re-evaluate what you want to do. Maybe the sciences isn't for you? It is true, however, that some people find it difficult to adjust to life on the Rock, being far away from family and getting inundated with materials and information... but to fail all of them would be cause for concern. That's what I would do anyway.

I have actually thought about quitting and just heading back home after my mini 1 scores came back... but then I beat the crap out of mini 2 (all except biochem... *shakes fist*)... and I did decent in mini 3. I'm still at a risk for failing if I don't get at least 55-60% of my final exam correct, but I'll jump off that bridge when I get to it (yes, I know it's "cross that bridge" but I like it better this way :D).

Point is, if you think you can do a complete 180 and do well the second time around, please don't give up just because you messed up first semester. If it's been your dream and you deem it to be worth the extra four months, why give it up? On the other hand if you don't have faith that you'll pass second semester even if you pass first semester the second time around, then re-evaluate your path and choose one that's more suited to what you're good at because pursuing something that you may no longer want isn't worth the extra 12-13K in debt.

Hope this helps.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Give it another chance, and go all hell mary at it. If you fail again, and you haven't been goofing off, then yes it's time for a new career or a new school, but other than that you should give it one more chance before you just give up permanently.

[sarahtarah]

they got rid of the probation part? wow i did not know that

[Chianti]

Good luck- I really hope everything works out for you.

Keep in mind though- if you fail 3 classes, how the heck are you ever going to pass Step 1? Step 1 is a comprehensive test covering EVERYTHING you learn in Semesters 1-4. If you don't learn everything well now, you will be at GREAT RISK for failing Step 1.

I don't mean to scare you, but this is reality. If someone barely passes all his/her classes the first four semester, the odds are greatly stacked against them passing Step 1. Maybe they will after multiple attempts, repeated Kaplan board prep classes, etc.... but the odds are great that they might never pass Step 1.

[Chianti]

Keep in mind that if you barely pass all your classes in Semester 1-4 the odds are greatly stacked against you that you won't pass Step 1. Don't mean to scare you, but its reality. Step 1 is a COMPREHENSIVE test covering everything learned in Semester 1-4; if you don't do well now you will undoubtedly fail Step 1. Maybe after multiple attempts, repeated Kaplan board prep classes, etc.... you'll pass Step 1, but the reality is that the odds aren't in your favor to pass Step 1.

If you know your not studying as hard as you can right now, maybe it might be a good idea to repeat. But if your busting balls right now, another career path might be the best thing for you. Semesters 2-4 are a lot tougher than semester 1. If you can't pass right now you will undoubtedly fail later. No shame in quiting medicine; its not for everyone and the important thing is that you tried.

I must say that there was a older Ross grad on the old Ross forum who had to repeat 1st semester- now he's a practicing anesthesiologist on Long Island. So it can be done.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[jameslynton]

Oh yeah, if you or someone you know was dismissed and you don't want to put the details on a public forum, I totally understand, so feel free to PM me. By the way, this isn't to poke fun or belittle people, I myself may be in this situation because the last mini (midterm) for me did not go very well, so unless I get high As on everything in the final (improbable) I may be failing a couple classes myself...so I might end up in this situation. I am panicked!Ok, lets not wave the "step 1 red flag" on scared first semester students. What you are looking for are solutions. Generally, I have heard several other Ross posters say they have not done well on one or more mini's in a semester and still came out OK for the semester. The difference at Ross vs other schools is the mini exams. I have talked with folks who did a semester at Ross then transfered. Several cited the mini's as test they never could get a good handle on and a reason they left.

My suggestion - stay calm - look at your study habits and attempt to get help on adapting them to Ross's mini system of testing. Also have hope it is not over until it is over...

[Cuando2]

Keep in mind that if you barely pass all your classes in Semester 1-4 the odds are greatly stacked against you that you won't pass Step 1. Don't mean to scare you, but its reality. Step 1 is a COMPREHENSIVE test covering everything learned in Semester 1-4; if you don't do well now you will undoubtedly fail Step 1. Maybe after multiple attempts, repeated Kaplan board prep classes, etc.... you'll pass Step 1, but the reality is that the odds aren't in your favor to pass Step 1.

If you know your not studying as hard as you can right now, maybe it might be a good idea to repeat. But if your busting balls right now, another career path might be the best thing for you. Semesters 2-4 are a lot tougher than semester 1. If you can't pass right now you will undoubtedly fail later. No shame in quiting medicine; its not for everyone and the important thing is that you tried.

I must say that there was a older Ross grad on the old Ross forum who had to repeat 1st semester- now he's a practicing anesthesiologist on Long Island. So it can be done.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

I read your entire post, and have come to the conclusion that you are not considering every possible situation that the OP may be in. Now, neither of us know the OP personally anyway, so let me tell my story:

When I did 1st semester, i came out of it having not done so great. I thought I would fail some of the classes. I was pleasently surprised that I didn't just pass, but I made a B in one of the classes I thought I would fail, probably due to the fact that so many did poorly and the curve was huge (this goes along with what others were saying regarding, "you may walk out having done well and only thought you did poorly").

Anyhow, the whole reason I was doing so poorly throughout 1st sem was the fact that I was simply not interested in the material. I ended up doing much better in the later semesters once interesting things like anatomy and physio came along, and things evened out too because the people left in those semesters scored higher. I felt like I answered more questions correctly compared to the 1st semester exams, even though my grades were similar, which showed the curve was not as huge as 1st sem.

So, to the OP, perhaps you are just struggling with material you don't care about and are not enthusiastic to learn. If you've went through the trouble of relocating to Dominica, applying to Ross and getting in, etc etc, might as well take another shot at 1st sem to see if you pass. If you find you are doing poorly in semester 2, you may be a borderline student or you may just not be fit for completing med school. All-in-all, don't make that decision so soon (after only 1 semester), try to repeat and re-assess. GOod luck.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Everyone I have talked to is scared.

[PiccoloPlaya]

I have heard Ross doesn't let too many people repeat once they are called in front of the committee.

[Liston]

Can any upperclassmen cite examples of curves in previous semesters? Dr. M personally told some of us that over 70% of students were failing biochem prior to mini 3. Then there are those struggling with other classes or multiple classes. Without probabation, it seems like an enormous amount of students are repeating. I also know plenty of people hovering near MPS in 1 or 2 classes who think they are already repeating. Are significant curves a common occurrence that really aren't spoken about?

[thecure4u]

Can any upperclassmen cite examples of curves in previous semesters? Dr. M personally told some of us that over 70% of students were failing biochem prior to mini 3. Then there are those struggling with other classes or multiple classes. Without probabation, it seems like an enormous amount of students are repeating. I also know plenty of people hovering near MPS in 1 or 2 classes who think they are already repeating. Are significant curves a common occurrence that really aren't spoken about?

The standard answer is there is no curve. But, the MPS, as I'm sure you're aware, does fluctuate from between 55-65 although I've never seen it above 60. It is possible that MPS will be as low as 55. That doesn't mean that if you have a 50% average along with half of the rest your class, they will curve your grades. As far as I know, your grade is your grade. If you get above MPS, you pass. If you don't get above MPS, you don't pass.

I'm usually a "glass half full" kind of guy. I do believe that those doing poorly in 1st semester can make up for it in second semester. I was even in that position to some degree. I had a 63 in Physio going in to 2nd semester and came out with a 71. However, as with all the classes that you're taking in 1st semester, the stuff you're learning in biochem will come back in pharm and path especially. If you don't get it now, you may have issues in 3rd semester. Also, DO NOT count on the final to bring your grade up. More often than not, the final hurts your grade, it doesn't help it.

Good luck. I hope you make it.

[PiccoloPlaya]

I am really scared right now about tomorrow's final, I don't want to get dismissed. I don't care about repeating the semester, I just don't want to get kicked out.

[thecure4u]

I am really scared right now about tomorrow's final, I don't want to get dismissed. I don't care about repeating the semester, I just don't want to get kicked out.

being scared will do you know good. Just do the best you can. If you do that, you should have no regrets. Again, good luck!

[PiccoloPlaya]

I won't have any regrets about doing the best I can - until I get expelled.

[shutterbugmd]

PiccoloPlaya. Try to do your best! if you fail the semester it's not the end of the world. it Sucks, I know, but hey what's another 4months if you think about THE REST OF YOU LIFE. Just talk to professors try to modify your study habits. If you end up facing the committee, just show that you want to work HARDER, that you have pinpointed your weaknesses and are ready to move forward, don't QUIT! good luck..

[McGillGrad]

Good post.

Just to add, if this semester does not go well, then at least you are familiar with the material so you will do much better next time around.

Try to take a look at THIS POST (http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/133372-can-someone-give-me-notes-1st-semester.html#post593060) to get an idea about an idea of how much time you should be spending on the material so as to drill it into your mind.

Good luck, PP.




PiccoloPlaya. Try to do your best! if you fail the semester it's not the end of the world. it Sucks, I know, but hey what's another 4months if you think about THE REST OF YOU LIFE. Just talk to professors try to modify your study habits. If you end up facing the committee, just show that you want to work HARDER, that you have pinpointed your weaknesses and are ready to move forward, don't QUIT! good luck..

[got milk?]

McGillgrad, are you a ross student?

[liqu0rleadstocha0s]

McGillgrad, are you a ross student?

we all know you're not so stop trying to instigate a fight. if you have nothing useful to add then keep your trap shut.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Thanks for all the support guys.

[jameslynton]

Thanks for all the support guys. I really hope I don't get a dismissal letter but it looks like it will be heading in that direction. Oh well, I'll just have to prove myself to the committee in case that happens.PiccoloPlaya - if I remember correctly - you have been out of school for awhile under a very difficult situation. My .02's - stay calm, study and get into the flow of things. You maybe rusty. Maybe find some students who are doing well and talk to them about what they are doing in their studying.

[jameslynton]

Hey marywinston45, hang in there - read what I just posted above. If you are rusty in studying check with the counseling center or some students doing well and see if they will give you some pointers. Just stay in the here and now studying and don't look any further than the prep'ing for the next class and studying for the next test. Step by step - day by day does it.

[FoxTrot]

PiccolaPlaya, aren't you the one that failed out of the US med school? If so, maybe medicine isn't for you if you're failing again. Not trying to be mean, but it will probably save you alot of money if you realize that early on before you accumulate alot of debt.

[Liston]

What I'm still trying to understand as a first semester student is how I've got 1 class just below 60 and I'm worried about repeating and the fact that there is a sign on the front door of the library saying that 3rd semester students advance to 4th provided they "fail 1 or 2 classes and have raw scores of 50 or above in the others"......I asked in another post about curves to no avail.......what's the deal??

[the_fat_one]

I won't have any regrets about doing the best I can - until I get expelled.

if you spend more time studying, and less time in this forum....

just do your best, there are things in life you just have to deal with and no control over....

being nagative it NOT going to help at all, just study more

if one person can pass, why cann't that person be you?

good luck

[PiccoloPlaya]

Actually I was doing really well this year until the third mini which I bombed. I did pretty well on the final but let's see what happens.

[sarahtarah]

What I'm still trying to understand as a first semester student is how I've got 1 class just below 60 and I'm worried about repeating and the fact that there is a sign on the front door of the library saying that 3rd semester students advance to 4th provided they "fail 1 or 2 classes and have raw scores of 50 or above in the others"......I asked in another post about curves to no avail.......what's the deal??



rumor on campus is that they got rid of that for the jan 07 class and the 3rd termers were grandfathered in. its just another way for Ross to get rid of more students

[Liston]

So if that's true, all that came thru Ross starting before Jan 2007 could fail 2 classes per semester AND got curved in the other 3 classes?? And now from Jan 2007 on students need to get ACTUAL MPS in all 5 classes and can't fail anything???....I'm not trying to be funny here I'm just trying to get it straight.....it sounds like passing Ross up until this year was a joke and now it's hardcore....I'm not trying to step on toes of upper semester students, but that's how the info I'm being given sounds. Can anybody help me here??

[doc20]

its just that ross realised letting students go on probation doesnt help anyone, the chances of failing out just gets higher, but if you make the student repeat the semester again, get A's which is easier because you are going over the material again, get better study habits, which eventually helps out caus then you can chill in the next semester and so on

[Cuando2]

Others have said this in the past, and I will say it again. If you want to find success at Ross, you'll just have to make sure you're SURELY passing, meaning doing very well. Performing at the borderline level at this school will give you no guarantees of any kind, esp with the high frequency of grading policy changes occuring for, what is rumored to be a way to control the large number of students.

If you want to perform at the borderline level, you should go to a US school since they allow for that (everyone essentially passes at US schools in order not to tarnish their "reputation" amongst the US med schools). Ross doesn't care, its a private school solely created for the generation of profits, no reputation to be upheld since streams of students will still fl00d into Ross' doors. (mods, why does this website automatically censor the word "fl00d" when written with real "o's"?)

[Cuando2]

when i read the title of this thread, i thought it was another one of those questions where people ask if this or that is on the island...in this case, I thought it was asking if "Curves for Women" centers were on the island

[PiccoloPlaya]

One correction - US med schools are actually more difficult than Ross - the one I went to was more difficult however, if you failed something you were given a chance to take a retake final (which was virtually impossible to pass) and if you didn't pass that, you retook the course/semester/year whatever, and if you didn't pass that you were kicked out. So you just get more chances even though the tests are much harder than Ross tests, that's why you don't see many US students dismissed. You also have to realize that the students at US med schools are 3.5 gpa/30+ mcat students who have great study habits and generally don't fail anything in the first place. However, their final exams aren't all on one test with 3000 note packets to go through, so that's the big difference.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Yay I did pretty well on the final I think - but it may not be enough for me to pass thanks to me bombing the third mini. Argh.

[liqu0rleadstocha0s]

damn is the test format that hard or is it the material?? or are the professors test questions out of wak?

[eyecon82]

damn is the test format that hard or is it the material?? or are the professors test questions out of wak?

to a premed that has never gone through this before...a 65 is a breeze to get in undergrad

why is it soo hard to achieve in med school if you were to still put in the work?

[rainne symphony]

Now that the final is over.........
I think that a lot of us is going to fail this semester. It's not because of the final but just because we aren't doing so well in Biochem.

I wonder what the school is going to do about that.

[teratos]

One correction - US med schools are actually more difficult than Ross - the one I went to was more difficult however, if you failed something you were given a chance to take a retake final (which was virtually impossible to pass) and if you didn't pass that, you retook the course/semester/year whatever, and if you didn't pass that you were kicked out. So you just get more chances even though the tests are much harder than Ross tests, that's why you don't see many US students dismissed. You also have to realize that the students at US med schools are 3.5 gpa/30+ mcat students who have great study habits and generally don't fail anything in the first place. However, their final exams aren't all on one test with 3000 note packets to go through, so that's the big difference.

Sounds like they went out of their way to make it harder than it had to be...

[FoxTrot]

One correction - US med schools are actually more difficult than Ross - the one I went to was more difficult however, if you failed something you were given a chance to take a retake final (which was virtually impossible to pass) and if you didn't pass that, you retook the course/semester/year whatever, and if you didn't pass that you were kicked out. So you just get more chances even though the tests are much harder than Ross tests, that's why you don't see many US students dismissed. You also have to realize that the students at US med schools are 3.5 gpa/30+ mcat students who have great study habits and generally don't fail anything in the first place. However, their final exams aren't all on one test with 3000 note packets to go through, so that's the big difference.

So basically you're saying you went to a US med school that was harder than Ross, failed out of that school and are now at Ross and failing again even though you say it's not as difficult . :confused:

[Stingray]

So basically you're saying you went to a US med school that was harder than Ross, failed out of that school and are now at Ross and failing again even though you say it's not as difficult . :confused:
All good students with good habits will not likely fail anywhere. Having said that, US med school pamper the students and spoonfeed them like toddlers and give them so much extra help to make sure they dont fail. I am talking about the top 20 med schools in the country.Also the test "difficulity" is also altered if the stats in the previous exam were not all that great. There are many other things that they do to help the students.

[rokshana]

edited, user can't play nice

[Cuando2]

One correction - US med schools are actually more difficult than Ross - the one I went to was more difficult

Just because the one YOU went to was difficult for your stated reasons doesn't mean that they are ALL more difficult. There are over 120 schools in the US, your one school doesn't speak for all of them.

You also have to realize that the students at US med schools are 3.5 gpa/30+ mcat students who have great study habits and generally don't fail anything in the first place.

People fail out of medical school for many other reasons besides not having great study habbits. So this argument you state is not too strong in your favor.

However, their final exams aren't all on one test with 3000 note packets to go through, so that's the big difference.

True, this is why US med schools are generally easier as their departments work with each other and fashion exams around individual classes. In the end, you still have a constrained study time if you are a procrastinator (like many of us are).

Didn't mean to dismantle your post, but you stated different reasons and none seemed strong in your favor.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Well I didn't mean to freak incoming students out...because everything's up in the air right now. For example, I thought I failed the anatomy practical and I got a 94. But I thought I did ok on the third mini and I failed it. So apparently I don't have a good gauge :)

[PiccoloPlaya]

You're back! I was wondering where you were these last couple months. You hadn't been attacking me much as of late :)

-- ********.

[marywinston45]

Considering our class is doing quite well in all other subject and only doing VERY poorly in biochem, I am assuming that we may have the most students ever to fail/repeat since we have that new rule where you have to get scores above the MPS inorder to go onto next semester. Even after mini 3 the professors were pretty upset that students weren't doing as well, last time someone told me over 60% of the students are failing biochem. I just wish all you guys luck that are repeating!

[PiccoloPlaya]

Ha! They're either gonna have to have a huge curve or lower the mps for biochem to like 40 in order for all of us to pass. I mean, think about it. Where do they have room for all of us repeaters? The May class is huge plus all the repeaters would be like 700 people in the annex LOL! I hope they don't decide to just dismiss everyone for lack of space. Maybe they could just let all of us MediaSite from home or something?

[liqu0rleadstocha0s]

wait wait...before this goes any further we need a ring, mud and beer ;)

[PiccoloPlaya]

edited, user can't play nice

[brob311]

Didn't you see them clearing out land by RUH? They are going to flatten the land and place a circus tent over it so they can fit all the repeaters and new incoming class to hold classes.

BTW - Everything is heresay around here as you know, but I did hear that they may curve the final (not the final as in test) grades, but there will still be a lot of repeaters probably.

Good luck

[brob311]

To answer your question, I know of people who went in front of the promotions committe, and few answered the riddle to be let across the bridge. I would re-evaluate how you are approaching studying medicine. I know others who came from US med schools and thought it would be easier at Ross, and they said that it was just as hard if not harder. It amazes me that you are knocking Ross down, when you are failing at least 2+ classes.

[Chianti]

Ross is harder than US medical schools because we cover the same material in a shorter amount of time.

[Daniel]

Ross is harder than US medical schools because we cover the same material in a shorter amount of time.

Disagree. Many US schools cover MORE basic science material in a SHORTER amount of time. Look at Baylor's curriculum.

Ross is EASIER than US schools academically because grading and determination of pass/fail is dependent upon MPS. Who makes the Ross MPS? Weak Ross students who had 2.5 GPAs and 25 MCATs....that is...the students do.

The MPS set in US schools are by students who had 3.6 GPAs and 30 MCATS.

Good Ross students can compete with US students academically...but weak Ross students do not compare to their US conterparts.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Well it all evens out in the end to be about the same - we all take the USMLE. So it's all hard. Everyone is stressed if you fall behind no matter where you go. I just hope they give me a second chance...once again I'm obviously not a good gauge of test performance with these types of exams so I have no idea how I did...but I'll find out next week.

[Cuando2]

Disagree. Many US schools cover MORE basic science material in a SHORTER amount of time. Look at Baylor's curriculum.

Ross is EASIER than US schools academically because grading and determination of pass/fail is dependent upon MPS. Who makes the Ross MPS? Weak Ross students who had 2.5 GPAs and 25 MCATs....that is...the students do.

The MPS set in US schools are by students who had 3.6 GPAs and 30 MCATS.

Good Ross students can compete with US students academically...but weak Ross students do not compare to their US conterparts.

I disagree with YOU AND CHIANTI.

The Ross curriculum overall is probably very similar difficulty to the others.

And please, do NOT fall for the misconception that Ross is an "accelerated" program to make your friends and family feel better. It is not accelerated in ANY way.

The reason: Most med schools equate one semester to AROUND 4 months or so. Our semesters at Ross are ALSO around 4 months. Ok...so we're even so far. Now, just because US schools do two semesters, then have a month or two off for summer break does NOT mean we are accelerated...it just means that you finish off your first four semesters, well, 4 months faster than most US curriculums, but only to a certain point...this is because once you DO finish those first four semesters, you're waiting to start AICM 5th semester just afterwards. US students instead will be taking step 1, and then beginning clinicals while you will struggle through the useless 5th semester program at Ross and postpone your step1 until afterwards, and THEN, wait for scores, and THEN finally start clinicals several months later.

When Ross says "accelerated program," they are flat-out lying.

[Cuando2]

Ross is EASIER than US schools academically because grading and determination of pass/fail is dependent upon MPS. Who makes the Ross MPS? Weak Ross students who had 2.5 GPAs and 25 MCATs....that is...the students do.

The MPS set in US schools are by students who had 3.6 GPAs and 30 MCATS.

You cannot correlate undergraduate GPAs and MCATs with med school performance as a whole...there are several students at Ross who were distracted by chasing girls and guzzling beers all througout undergrad, crept through with a 2.0 undergrad GPA, slid through with a 20 MCAT, and are performing VERY well at Ross with 3.5+ gpas and high USMLEs.

How can you generalize ALL Ross students as those with low GPAs and low MCATs to begin with? Several Ross students were eligable US candidates (stats-wise), yet due to the lack of space in US schools, second-choiced it and came to Ross.

[Daniel]

You cannot correlate undergraduate GPAs and MCATs with med school performance as a whole...there are several students at Ross who were distracted by chasing girls and guzzling beers all througout undergrad, crept through with a 2.0 undergrad GPA, slid through with a 20 MCAT, and are performing VERY well at Ross with 3.5+ gpas and high USMLEs.

How can you generalize ALL Ross students as those with low GPAs and low MCATs to begin with? Several Ross students were eligable US candidates (stats-wise), yet due to the lack of space in US schools, second-choiced it and came to Ross.

Your argument is flawed in that it does not address the original issue and skirts the issue with a misconception that Ross students are the same/similar to US students except that Ross students "were distracted by chasing girls and guzzling beers."

The ease of passing and failing at Ross has nothing to do with the above and everything to do with the MPS. Who sets the Ross MPS? Weak Ross students.

Your example of current Ross students who have 3.5+ GPAs and high USMLEs has NOTHING to do with the MPS...because these folks DO NOT set the MPS! The MPS is set by Ross students with marginal med school performance.

So, who are these marginal Ross students? While undergrad GPA and MCATs may not necessarily correlate with USMLE scores....no one is going to believe that a 3.3, 28 MCAT who just missed getting into US schools is going to struggle as much as a 2.0, 20 MCAT student like you seem to imply...drinking or chasing girls or otherwise.

And if you think these marginal Ross students who set the Ross MPS is the same/similar to their US counterparts...and blame it on chasing girls and drinking beers...well, most would disagree. Because there are US med students who ALSO drank the same beers and chased the same girls and STILL performed well enough to get into US schools...

[Cuando2]

Your argument is flawed in that it does not address the original issue and skirts the issue with a misconception that Ross students are the same/similar to US students except that Ross students "were distracted by chasing girls and guzzling beers."

The ease of passing and failing at Ross has nothing to do with the above and everything to do with the MPS. Who sets the Ross MPS? Weak Ross students.

Your example of current Ross students who have 3.5+ GPAs and high USMLEs has NOTHING to do with the MPS...because these folks DO NOT set the MPS! The MPS is set by Ross students with marginal med school performance.

So, who are these marginal Ross students? While undergrad GPA and MCATs may not necessarily correlate with USMLE scores....no one is going to believe that a 3.3, 28 MCAT who just missed getting into US schools is going to struggle as much as a 2.0, 20 MCAT student like you seem to imply...drinking or chasing girls or otherwise.

And if you think these marginal Ross students who set the Ross MPS is the same/similar to their US counterparts...and blame it on chasing girls and drinking beers...well, most would disagree. Because there are US med students who ALSO drank the same beers and chased the same girls and STILL performed well enough to get into US schools...

The bolded statement above represents your assumption. While you can assume anything in this world, you cannot assume that, considering UNDERGRAD GPAs, a 3.3/28 MCAT student will not struggle more than a 2.0/20 student. Why? Because you fail to consider what undergraduate institution both attended, what majors they completed, etc. Why is this important? Well, people will regard a 3.8 state-school GPA in Hotel Management (for example) as somewhat equivalent to a 3.3 ivy-league GPA in the same major. People mistakenly (and lazily) rely too heavily on GPAs...sure, they are an attempt to standardize performance across the board, but there are other factors which are forgotten to be considered by people such as yourself.

This is PRIMARILY why you cannot assume things based upon a person's undergrad GPA and their MCAT score. A person's MCAT score can vary greatly, especially if the person were sick on a particular day and scored lower. You are assuming things without considering the important variables, which makes your argument very weak.

[Daniel]

The bolded statement above represents your assumption. While you can assume anything in this world, you cannot assume that, considering UNDERGRAD GPAs, a 3.3/28 MCAT student will not struggle more than a 2.0/20 student. Why? Because you fail to consider what undergraduate institution both attended, what majors they completed, etc. Why is this important? Well, people will regard a 3.8 state-school GPA in Hotel Management (for example) as somewhat equivalent to a 3.3 ivy-league GPA in the same major.

This is PRIMARILY why you cannot assume things based upon a person's undergrad GPA and their MCAT score. A person's MCAT score can vary greatly, especially if the person were sick on a particular day and scored lower. You are assuming things without considering the important variables, which makes your argument very weak.

Again, you are missing the point. The point being: who sets the MPS?

Your logic and reasoning should then apply to everything in life. I still contend that a person who failed Step1 two times and finally ended up with a 185 is not the same as a person who scored a 260 on the first attempt. A person who scored a 40 MCAT is not the same as a person who scored a 20. A person who passed board certification is not the same as someone who didnt, etc. Using the argument that maybe the "person were sick on particular" test day does not apply to everyone.

I still say the MPS is set by weaker Ross students. Yes it is an assumption that weaker students, in general, have weaker GPAs. But this is the general rule...while you have the habit of mentioning exceptions. There is no dichtomy where everyone went to either a State school or an Ivy.

It is clear that my assumption is: weaker Ross students who set the MPS were generally weaker undergrads.

You refute this assumption with little evidence to the contrary, using outliers and exceptions to the rule. I do acknowledge there are some people who did poorly in undergrad that do well in Ross....why cant you acknowledge that there are also far more people at Ross who did poorly in undergrad and are ALSO doing poorly in med school?

It comes down to what is believable. You think there is no trend...but I contend there is. People who 3.8 undergrad GPAs are less likely to fail than those with 2.3 GPAs. You may mention exceptions to the rule and outliers like those 2.3s who went to an Ivy...but I would say that not all 2.3s went to Ivy League schools and that you are generalizing to a greater degree.

[jackbnimble]

Ross is harder than US medical schools because we cover the same material in a shorter amount of time.

The time to cover the material (presumably the same) is only one factor with which to gauge difficulty.

[jackbnimble]

You cannot correlate undergraduate GPAs and MCATs with med school performance as a whole...there are several students at Ross who were distracted by chasing girls and guzzling beers all througout undergrad, crept through with a 2.0 undergrad GPA, slid through with a 20 MCAT, and are performing VERY well at Ross with 3.5+ gpas and high USMLEs.

How can you generalize ALL Ross students as those with low GPAs and low MCATs to begin with? Several Ross students were eligable US candidates (stats-wise), yet due to the lack of space in US schools, second-choiced it and came to Ross.

Several students out of the largest admitted class of any med school on the planet does not detract from an otherwise valid point.

Jack

[indiansurprise]

i wouldnt blame any of this on the lack of probation...that large a percentage failing biochem is just odd..i actually feel bad for those "pass biochem" chants during the football and basketball games..sorry

[stephew]

ill bet this thread was started by someone who made a bet that he could get you folks to debate what the definition of "is" is.

[PiccoloPlaya]

I should have spent less of my time at Ross chasing men and guzzling beers :D

[PiccoloPlaya]

You know what's the worst? The fact that we had people with PhD's in Biochemistry in our class - and they STILL failed biochem. Now that's telling you something. And no, that's not a rumor, several course professors have told me it's true. Although granted medical biochem is probably different than what they're used to, that's still messed up.

[PiccoloPlaya]

I don't care about repeating, I'll gladly do it as a chance to get a great GPA next semester. I just hope they don't kick all of us out :(

[teratos]

I should have spent less of my time at Ross chasing men and guzzling beers :D

Probably good advice. G

[liqu0rleadstocha0s]

I should have spent less of my time at Ross chasing men and guzzling beers :D

nevermind.................

[PiccoloPlaya]

I was kidding you guys. Jeez louise. Come to think of it, I never went to a single party while I was at Ross...just some really nice dinners and drinking at Tomato's every now and then. So I wasn't guzzling beers and chasing men. That's definitely not why I did badly. Although one guy did break my heart at Ross :(

[FoxTrot]

I was kidding you guys. Jeez louise. Come to think of it, I never went to a single party while I was at Ross...just some really nice dinners and drinking at Tomato's every now and then. So I wasn't guzzling beers and chasing men. That's definitely not why I did badly. Although one guy did break my heart at Ross :(

You are speaking in the past tense. Are you not at Ross anymore?

[PiccoloPlaya]

Yeah, I'm still at Ross.

[thecure4u]

I disagree with YOU AND CHIANTI.

The Ross curriculum overall is probably very similar difficulty to the others.

And please, do NOT fall for the misconception that Ross is an "accelerated" program to make your friends and family feel better. It is not accelerated in ANY way.

The reason: Most med schools equate one semester to AROUND 4 months or so. Our semesters at Ross are ALSO around 4 months. Ok...so we're even so far. Now, just because US schools do two semesters, then have a month or two off for summer break does NOT mean we are accelerated...it just means that you finish off your first four semesters, well, 4 months faster than most US curriculums, but only to a certain point...this is because once you DO finish those first four semesters, you're waiting to start AICM 5th semester just afterwards. US students instead will be taking step 1, and then beginning clinicals while you will struggle through the useless 5th semester program at Ross and postpone your step1 until afterwards, and THEN, wait for scores, and THEN finally start clinicals several months later.

When Ross says "accelerated program," they are flat-out lying.

Um, I looked up the definition of accelerated and it says "caused to go more rapidly." Sounds pretty accurate to me...

[McGillGrad]

Um, I looked up the definition of accelerated and it says "caused to go more rapidly." Sounds pretty accurate to me...


:D :D :D :D

[blaze1984]

Considering our class is doing quite well in all other subject and only doing VERY poorly in biochem, I am assuming that we may have the most students ever to fail/repeat since we have that new rule where you have to get scores above the MPS inorder to go onto next semester. Even after mini 3 the professors were pretty upset that students weren't doing as well, last time someone told me over 60% of the students are failing biochem. I just wish all you guys luck that are repeating!

Deleted cause of mods

[got milk?]

we all know you're not so stop trying to instigate a fight. if you have nothing useful to add then keep your trap shut.


why are you getting so defensive? your post is as useless as mine.

Would you like to take advice about Ross from a non-Ross student?
I just want to call out the pretenders. :rolleyes: got a problem with that, mom?

[PiccoloPlaya]

From what you guys know, is it pretty much true that once you have to face the promotions committee (if you are failing 3 or more classes) you are basically a goner?

[jjmalu]

Yea those people usually go straight from the promotions committee meeting to Antigua.

[stateofequilibrium]

From what you guys know, is it pretty much true that once you have to face the promotions committee (if you are failing 3 or more classes) you are basically a goner?

Have you ever been tested for a learning disability? Failing the same material that you took twice before either suggests you're not learning it correctly, or having difficulty with taking these types of examinations. Have you taken mock exams and seen how you stack up and why you're getting things wrong?

[McGillGrad]

? The fact that we had people with PhD's in Biochemistry in our class - and they STILL failed biochem.

That is impossible.

[Daniel]

That is impossible.

Thats what I said too. Though, if true, I would then question the validity of the PhD program. When I was at Ross, there was talk of someone who had a Biochem PhD but failed Biochem at Ross. The student supposedly even taught biochemistry at Tenn State Univ.

Hardly believable stuff.

Its funny though, because I thought Biochem was one of the easiest med school courses. Several people in my semester hit raw 100% on minis and walked into the final with A's so high that failing the final did not affect their overall grade. Walk in with a raw 96%....get a 43% on the final...75 on the shelf...add in the PBL 5% and the MPS set at 57....still translates to an A. Come to think of it...these people did not even need to take the final...they could have just shown up and signed their names and left.

I dont know about now, but back then, most people stressed over Genetics...because the final was worth something like 55%. There was no getting around it.

[blaze1984]

That is impossible.


actually, i know of one person who is in that situation... at least after the 2nd mini... it's actually kinda funny... what kind of crappy *** phd program are you in that you can't pull off a 60% on a multiple choice test...

i mean it's 1/5 for every question you don't know, that means you need to know 1 out of every 2 questions for sure and you can guess your way to a 60%...

[DC2BMD]

actually, i know of one person who is in that situation... at least after the 2nd mini... it's actually kinda funny... what kind of crappy *** phd program are you in that you can't pull off a 60% on a multiple choice test...

i mean it's 1/5 for every question you don't know, that means you need to know 1 out of every 2 questions for sure and you can guess your way to a 60%...


Where do these profs get their test questions from? I mean is it pretty much out of the note packets or classroom materials presented. Or from the required readings from the texts. Or they do they just pull it out of their wazoo?

Kinda getting nervous after reading all these failures.

[liqu0rleadstocha0s]

Where do these profs get their test questions from? I mean is it pretty much out of the note packets or classroom materials presented. Or from the required readings from the texts. Or they do they just pull it out of their wazoo?

Kinda getting nervous after reading all these failures.

tell me bout it...5 more days till i hit the rock ... i've officially gone mad

[PiccoloPlaya]

Hey I didn't mean to freak you guys out. I think some people just figure it out and others don't.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Yea those people usually go straight from the promotions committee meeting to Antigua.

:oops: oh god...that's scary...:scared:

Have you ever been tested for a learning disability? Failing the same material that you took twice before either suggests you're not learning it correctly, or having difficulty with taking these types of examinations. Have you taken mock exams and seen how you stack up and why you're getting things wrong?

Yes I do have difficulty focusing sometimes. I don't know how much Ross would care about that though.

[Daniel]

Where do these profs get their test questions from? I mean is it pretty much out of the note packets or classroom materials presented. Or from the required readings from the texts. Or they do they just pull it out of their wazoo?

Kinda getting nervous after reading all these failures.


Dont worry about "all these failures."

I'll take the opposite approach...I actually found Ross academics on the Island to be a joke. Very easy. Much, much easier than undergrad. A 3.8, 3.9 and even 4.0 is doable.

Just study hard, party hard and enjoy classroom learning while you can. Ross clinicals...well, thats when the nightmare will begin.

[blaze1984]

mods made me delete

[liqu0rleadstocha0s]

Dont worry about "all these failures."

I'll take the opposite approach...I actually found Ross academics on the Island to be a joke. Very easy. Much, much easier than undergrad. A 3.8, 3.9 and even 4.0 is doable.

Just study hard, party hard and enjoy classroom learning while you can. Ross clinicals...well, thats when the nightmare will begin.

wow what major were you in undergrad? lol ... thanks for the input though guys...it KINDA put my nerves at ease...now if only my doc would write me that script :D

[Daniel]

I was just pointing out that Ross grading is VERY lax. In my opinion, the curve is too high....a curve does not help you with less forgiving exams like the USMLE.

During my time in Dominica, people also complained about how hard Ross was...perhaps to make themselves feel better, to have an excuse for why they did poorly. Because God forbid it wasnt their fault...it was the sheer magnitude of the difficulty!:rolleyes: Nope.

I studied hard everyday during my 1st year of undergrad...studying till the wee hours...and barely made a 2.1 GPA as a ChemE. Conversely, I barely studied 1.5 hours a day during Ross (more on weekend before minis) and was a 4.0 after 1st year....

Yes there are people failing left and right. But there are also people cruising by with GPAs far exceeding their undergrad GPAs. People who truly busted their behinds studying as undergrads in hard courses at top colleges (not pseudo-top or regionally top schools...but truly top schools) will probably tell you a similar story. Many of my friends found the first 6 weeks studying undergrad Biochem using Stryer to be more difficult than anything done at Ross. And lets not even get started on upper level ChemE courses...comparatively, I found the USMLEs a joke.

Any ChemE's out there who have felt my pain?:evil:

[teratos]

Get tested. If you have one, you can maybe do something about it. G

[Sam84]

anyone know when the grades are coming out?? :confused:
and are they through e-mail??

[brob311]

I would give the grades about a week from the time you took your final. And yes, they give you your final grades via e-mail.

About the one-way ticket to Antigua...there is usually a rep from AUA that is outside where the promotions committee takes place during the week where you can try to plead your case to stay at Ross, but very few arguments are convincing.

Antigua has nicer beaches anyway, right?

[PiccoloPlaya]

Ok you either must be brilliant or went to some insanely hard school. There are plenty of ChemE majors failing at Ross. You thought the USMLE's were a joke?!?

[jameslynton]

Ok you either must be brilliant or went to some insanely hard school. There are plenty of ChemE majors failing at Ross. You thought the USMLE's were a joke?!?Gunner alert!!! Beware of posters who make you feel .02 tall - with statements like "ug wa I got a 3.95 at Harvard" Later you find out they went to jok'ums community college and had a 2.3....

[PiccoloPlaya]

promotions committee takes place...where you can try to plead your case to stay at Ross, but very few arguments are convincing.

Yikes! But you know, last semester there was one guy who failed 3 classes by one percent and got kicked out, and another girl who failed all 5 classes by twenty percent and was allowed to repeat. Yes - she even failed dps, which is beyond me. And she is a second semester now. It may be a case-by-case basis, you never know.

[bkpride]

Yikes! But you know, last semester there was one guy who failed 3 classes by one percent and got kicked out, and another girl who failed all 5 classes by twenty percent and was allowed to repeat. Yes - she even failed dps, which is beyond me. And she is a second semester now. It may be a case-by-case basis, you never know.

This is gonna sound messed up-but if you gotta go against the commitee,just say you have a drug problem and say you want to claim that as a disability.It worked fo a girl in our class.She not only messed up,but got busted with coke on the island.Claimed it as a disability and it caused her learnin problems and was allowed to stay.What is messed up is that she flew strait,just matched in anesthesia and decided to chump a bunch of days in her surgery rotation and almost got booted from wykoff.Looks like she didnt learn,but they cant deny you yo education if you clainm the easiest disability there is.You would be amazed at how many stay with that exquse.

[VSR]

My 2 cents. The first thing you have to think about at Ross is NOT MPS. Thats just stupid thinking. People who are always worried about what the mps will be, are always the ppl who end up failing. If you aim for 100% on every exam you will never be in that situation. That being said, 1st semester is a joke compared to the rest of the other semesters. Doing bad on the first exam is ok. By the time you write the 3rd mini and Final you should have realized what it takes to do well on the mini's. If you havent, you're not studying properly or you're not being honest with yourself.

As for all these PhD's failing biochem, i think that **! I did electrical engineering in undergrad and still managed to get an A in biochem. In all honesty, the course material in medical school is very easy. TIME MANAGEMENT (rate-limiting factor :)) is the key . I wasnt a model student in undergrad (2.3 gpa, 32 mcat).

You have to remember this is a BUSINESS, ross is here to make money. If you think Ross is going to hold your hand and get you a medical degree, you came to the wrong place. You must keep in mind the fact they admit approx. 400 students- some of who probably shouldnt be in medical school, some who should. Also, you have to remember, they dont have 400 spots for 5th semester :) That should tell you something.

I know i'm ranting, but really sit back and evaluate yourself honestly and see where you could have improved. I'm going into 4th semester, and i still try to find things to improve on after every semester.

There are simple things you can do to make yourself more productive at ross.
#1- get up on time and watch/go to lecture everday-- DONT GET BEHIND in lectures. Even for one day.
#2- Review all the lecture material from the day on the day the lectures were given.
#3- If you have time, review a some previous days material.
#4- workout, play some sports, etc.
#5- On saturday/sunday review the weeks material. If you are still catching up on watching lectures on weekend, then theres something wrong.

Good Luck to all.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Ha ha ha nice one bkpride. Not sure it would be a wise choice for a student to go in front of the promotions committee and tell them they have drug problems though, that probably wouldn't go over too well. LOL!

[bkpride]

Ha ha ha nice one bkpride...well I definitely think I have ADD. Not sure about saying I have drug problems in front of a committee though, that probably won't go over too well LOL.

the add thing has been done to death.Everyone is giong to go in,say they JUST realized that they gots add and needs ritalin.THEN they will all get sent packin,like all of them before them.You may as well put all the gumbo in the bowl and go out with a bang.Instedd of sayin you need drugs-say you ON drugs.You laugh,but it works.Some of them peeps that crashes a semester but stays,and we all scratch our haid-thats what they say.Come to wykoff-there is always one that brags about it (as the anesthesia/blow off surgery home-gurl).
Remember the exquses everyone gives the committe-

1-I gots add.Never knew it till I started messin up here on Dominica.
2-my whatever died.I know I never told nobody or went to nobody when it happened-because I thought I could handle it.
3.I be havin a hard time adjustin to the island.
4.my study habits need to be re-ebaluated.I'll re-ebaluate them next time.
5. I gots add.I need drugs.

EVERY semester EVERY year gives these same things.Be original.
If you facin the committe-what have you gots to loose?Sayin you have add without havin any proof that you got to the island wiff it is certain to gets you bounced.Sayin you have a disability-and yes drug addiction IS covered in the disabilities act-may give you a fightin chance.Good luck tho.Glad that garbage is behind.

[bkpride]

There are simple things you can do to make yourself more productive at ross.
#1- get up on time and watch/go to lecture everday-- DONT GET BEHIND in lectures. Even for one day.
#2- Review all the lecture material from the day on the day the lectures were given.
#3- If you have time, review a some previous days material.
#4- workout, play some sports, etc.
#5- On saturday/sunday review the weeks material. If you are still catching up on watching lectures on weekend, then theres something wrong.

Good Luck to all.

GOOD advice

[Daniel]

Ok you either must be brilliant or went to some insanely hard school. There are plenty of ChemE majors failing at Ross. You thought the USMLE's were a joke?!?

Read back what I said. COMPARATIVELY, the USMLEs were easier than some of my upper level ChemE courses. I didn't flat out say they were a joke in and of themselves.

Contrary to popular belief, MDs are not the absolute brightest people in the world...there are plenty of professions out there that require lots of brain power. Chemical engineers, NASA scientists, some lawyers, etc...just to name a few.

Believe it or not, other professional people have exams that are just as hard as the USMLEs, if not harder.

[PiccoloPlaya]

"Instead of saying you need drugs - say you ON drugs." <--- :lolup: THAT'S THE FUNNIEST THING I'VE READ ALL WEEK!!! :crackingup:

All I can say is if a student goes in front of the promotions committee and tell them they're a drug addict - it is a SURE bet they're gonna get their behind tossed out.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Better yet - you should just show up to the promotions committee completely stoned, waving your one-way airline ticket to Antigua in their faces. Now that'd be a hoot.

[PiccoloPlaya]

I think you can login and check your grades now?

[Daniel]

I have also seen some girls work the "pregnancy" angle. Claimed pregnancy....traveled to the US to abort...claimed complications. All you need is a pregnant friend's pee and a $2 pregnancy test.

[glorytome]

Sorry to but in like this, but I'm leaving for May in less than 5 days...reading this post has me sweating bricks...in the thread after this one entitled CURVE, some kid cited a professor saying that 70% of biochem students are failing...:scared:

[stateofequilibrium]

Sorry to but in like this, but I'm leaving for May in less than 5 days...reading this post has me sweating bricks...in the thread after this one entitled CURVE, some kid cited a professor saying that 70% of biochem students are failing...:scared:

Don't be. Keep your head down and study hard. Many many people have successfully gone through Ross and become an MD.

[bkpride]

User can't play nice

[bkpride]

Sorry to but in like this, but I'm leaving for May in less than 5 days...reading this post has me sweating bricks...in the thread after this one entitled CURVE, some kid cited a professor saying that 70% of biochem students are failing...:scared:

And remember the odds are stacked against you.Embrace dat fack and it will be easier to handle.In the BSA(Black stoodent assn) we used to be wearin shirts dat said "against all odds" because of the man be holdin the brutha man down you know,-I aint kiddin -the old timers will let you know-they saw us sportin them on campus,lookin all proud and whatnot.WELL, we didnt really undersand thet the odds were against all of us.not just the bruthah man but the white man,yellow man,green man, brown man and all the ladiesThe runnin joke with the bruthas and sistahs is dat we gonna give them to everyone on graduation day.

[VSR]

I totally agree with Daniel on this pt. My first year engineering exams were a lot tougher than ross mini's or the shelf's i have written. The ross mini's are pretty easy comparatively. You just have to memorize the prof's packet and what they say in class and you can easily pull 60%. If you cant get 70% avg. at Ross, i think your wasting your time in medical school. I know ppl have passed the step with lesser grades, but for the majority it is dificult. And lets be honest, do you really want a doctor who got 60's, barely passed the step to be your doctor? even more, do you want to be that doctor?

Read back what I said. COMPARATIVELY, the USMLEs were easier than some of my upper level ChemE courses. I didn't flat out say they were a joke in and of themselves.

Contrary to popular belief, MDs are not the absolute brightest people in the world...there are plenty of professions out there that require lots of brain power. Chemical engineers, NASA scientists, some lawyers, etc...just to name a few.

Believe it or not, other professional people have exams that are just as hard as the USMLEs, if not harder.

[blaze1984]

Sorry to but in like this, but I'm leaving for May in less than 5 days...reading this post has me sweating bricks...in the thread after this one entitled CURVE, some kid cited a professor saying that 70% of biochem students are failing...:scared:

MPS ended up being a 57% for biochem... not too bad at all... there are people pulling 95% in that class.... it's very doable, just remember you're in med school, that means you have to work... just keep focused... you blow off one test, and you'll be hurting...

i went out drinking every friday night while i was there, you can have fun and still do well.... good luck with everything, keep focused and i'm sure you'll be fine

[jwhiteys]

Don't worry about passing biochem, worry about making 80% or greater. If you study with the mindset that you will make A's and you really understand the material, you will do fine.

My advice:
1) pre-read
2) read the book
3) study the packets the day you have lecture.

I made an A and I know plenty others who made A's in biochem. Good luck next semester.

J

[rainne symphony]

I think it sucks that if one fails a class and aced the rest, one has to repeat the semester. Nevertheless, to those who have to repeat, hang in there. It'll make you be a better doctor.

I think it's better to repeat than to barely pass everything else because the second semester is gonna come tackling and without a strong foundation..... the final cumulative grade is gonna hurt bad.

Not just that, our future patients' lives are in our hands. Every time spent studying define the quality of care we will be providing.

Don't give up.

:D

[rainne symphony]

One advice to the future students that I learned from experience...


NEVER FALL BEHIND. MAKE SURE YOU MASTER ALL THOSE MATERIALS YOU LEARNED ON THAT DAY - ON THAT DAY ITSELF.

okay.. that's it :D

One observation is that Ross does not teach you everything you need to know. They teach you perhaps 90-95%. The rest of the stuffs, fill in the gaps from books/BRS/First Aid.

If you don't understand something, FIND THE PROFESSOR RIGHT AWAY! It's much faster than searching through books. But, reading before finding the professor works well too. But never forget about the professor. They can explain things at your level may it be fast or slow (slow in my case).

With that said, all the best.

[stateofequilibrium]

Just remember, you're not there studying to pass the class. You're there to do as well as you can on Step 1.

[blaze1984]

Just remember, you're not there studying to pass the class. You're there to do as well as you can on Step 1.


i agree with that, but your first goal should be to make it through your classes.... and if you know the material in your classes well, you should be able to pass the Step

btw they did seem to curve the biochem final, or perhaps throw out a question, as my percentage on the final was divisiable by 24 and not 25

[phisigman03]

i agree with that, but your first goal should be to make it through your classes.... and if you know the material in your classes well, you should be able to pass the Step

btw they did seem to curve the biochem final, or perhaps throw out a question, as my percentage on the final was divisiable by 24 and not 25

it was thrown out no curves

[PiccoloPlaya]

Ok let's get this straight. The majority of our class was failing biochem. Unless these people did stellar on the final (kind of hard to do when you're failing the entire semester) and pulled their grade up a drastic amount, not that many of them could have passed since there wasn't a curve. And at Ross, even if you fail one course by 0.1% you have to repeat the entire semester. So wouldn't that mean there's gonna be like 700 people in the annex with all the repeaters next semester? Unless more people passed biochem than I thought.

[indiansurprise]

#1- get up on time and watch/go to lecture everday-- DONT GET BEHIND in lectures. Even for one day.
#2- Review all the lecture material from the day on the day the lectures were given.
#3- If you have time, review a some previous days material.
#4- workout, play some sports, etc.
#5- On saturday/sunday review the weeks material. If you are still catching up on watching lectures on weekend, then theres something wrong.



words to live by while on the island

also, biochem is the last course that anybody should be failing, its the one that hasnt fluctuated nearly at all in the past 3-4 semesters; other courses have had prof changes, material changes, etc, biochem has been pretty stagnent, so im not sure what you could possibly blame it on =/

[PiccoloPlaya]

I don't know either. I just know that the majority of our class was failing biochem going into the final. And that final was terribly difficult. I pray that everyone pulled their grades up, because otherwise we'll have a class of 650 instead of 450 next semester.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Yeah, I'm just curious to see how many people have to repeat because of biochem. That annex is gonna have like 700 people in it. I pray everyone just decides to MediaSite.

[phisigman03]

I don't know either. I just know that the majority of our class was failing biochem going into the final. And that final was terribly difficult. I pray that everyone pulled their grades up, because otherwise we'll have a class of 650 instead of 450 next semester.


May class barely pass 300 mark. Your class was the only class so far with 450. So if that many are failing biochem then may might end up with ~500.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Really? Well then it won't be that packed at all...it would be like the regular 450 then. Plus most of the repeaters are gonna MediaSite anyway, so no biggie about space.

[ekimsurfer]

A lot of the info discussed on the correct way to study seems like common sense. I'm beginning to think that most of the reasons why people at Ross have to repeat stems from their inability to study/use proper time management...that's just me and I haven't started yet, however, I have several friends who are 3rd years that say the same thing. Do all the repeat students really just fall back into the subsequent class? If so, I hate to see what it will be like in September when I start.

[vaneleus]

Yeah, I'm just curious to see how many people have to repeat because of biochem. That annex is gonna have like 700 people in it. I pray everyone just decides to MediaSite.

That is very unlikely. I would imagine that the number of people that failed is not much different from semesters past, and will therefore have a similar and predictable effect on the coming first semester class. That is to say, there will probably be 60-100 repeating students.

I know the rumor mill has it that 70% of the class was failing biochem at one point. Personally, I do not buy that number. Biochem just was not difficult enough for that large a portion of the class to do so poorly.

[rainne symphony]

..but our class (January) is even larger than the September one...

[brob311]

Those numbers where not that far off (70%), and the Biochem dept even curved the final grades (my friends numerical grade did not add up mathematically) so more would end up passing. Sadly, I think this was done so they would have enough room for the repeaters and the incoming students.

[rainne symphony]

Repeats fall back.

It's not as easy as it looks like, really. Before school started, I read through study books, lots of advice, etc etc... but once school started, I was completely overwhelmed. "Common sense" was no longer common sense.

The best way to learn it is through experiences or have a mentor/supportive classmates/helpful upperclasspeople who can guide along the way - fast and useful advice whenever needed.

[vaneleus]

Those numbers where not that far off (70%), and the Biochem dept even curved the final grades (my friends numerical grade did not add up mathematically) so more would end up passing. Sadly, I think this was done so they would have enough room for the repeaters and the incoming students.

The reason the numerical grade did not add up mathematically is because they dropped a question, and is not the result of a cruve. The percentage score is the reflection of performance on 24 questions, not 25.

If you are instead referring to a curved biochem course grade, then lucky you. My grade is reported as it should be, according to my grade calculation sheet, sans curve.

[vaneleus]

Those numbers where not that far off (70%), and the Biochem dept even curved the final grades (my friends numerical grade did not add up mathematically) so more would end up passing. Sadly, I think this was done so they would have enough room for the repeaters and the incoming students.

I see you are in second, so I can't comment on that and my previous comments are geared toward my class (first going to second).

[cbj781]

Anyone happen to know what the promotions committee would do to an individual who is promoted onto the next semester on probation for ONE class, and then subsequently fails it?? I would greatly appreciate any insight an upperclassmen at Ross would have concerning this issue.

[gimmeaknyfe]

First off, I don't think that you can go on promotion anymore for failing one class. Next, I think that someone who fails has to repeat from first semester. But, if they fail again, they are subject for dismissal. Not 100% certain, but that's my understanding of the policy.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Rules at Ross are that if you're on probation and you fail anything, you're kicked out. Hopefully you'll get to plead your case in front of the committee, but from what I hear, they tend to be very unforgiving. Best of luck to you.

[McGillGrad]

I am sorry to hear about that. I hope that you can find a way to continue your studies somewhere, if not Ross.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Even with the curved biochem grades, it still may not be enough for people to pass even if you got like a 100 on the final, because a lot of students were in the 30-40% range.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Yeah, 2 of my best friends who were repeating failed biochem again and were just kicked out. Maaaan...how come all the nice students have to leave Ross :(

[brob311]

If you are currently a 2nd or 4th semester and moved on via probation, then the rules state two options for you: 1. you're kicked out. 2. If you can convince them, you can repeat the semester over, and repeat the course you were on probation in from the previous 2 semesters. This is done by taking the exams with the material from both of the semesters in the class/es you were on probation with, but taking the repeated semester subject matter in the classes you were not on probation in.

Good Luck

[PiccoloPlaya]

Generally in those cases, they tell you not to even bother appealing because you're still going to get kicked out. I would still appeal though even if it looked hopeless. You just never know. This is your career after all.

[cbj781]

I appreciate the insight. I actually failed Biochem by a bloody point, but passed everything else w/ flying colors so hoping the committee will show some mercy. But sheesh, repeating second semester in addition to 1st semester Biochem...nasty!! However, no one said this road was going to be easy, or without some falls along the way. So, I must keep pushing forward. Once again, I appreciate the insightful information and timely responses.

[indiansurprise]

its usually a repeat semester after appeals

[PiccoloPlaya]

My friend failed a class by 0.1% and was kicked out. Maaan this school is messed up!

[vaneleus]

My friend failed a class by 0.1% and was kicked out. Maaan this school is messed up!

Does it matter if it's by 15 points or .000001 point?!?

How is the school messed up?

[PiccoloPlaya]

Because if you were kicked out, then you'd be praying it was by 15 points...wouldn't you be mad as hell if it was for 0.0001?

[DRJJ1]

Anyone happen to know what the promotions committee would do to an individual who is promoted onto the next semester on probation for ONE class, and then subsequently fails it?? I would greatly appreciate any insight an upperclassmen at Ross would have concerning this issue.

PERSONALLY I THINK IT IS A DISGRACE THAT ROSS DOES THIS TO THEIR STUDENTS,,,DISMISS IF YOU DON T PASS 1 CLASS IS INSANE AND DOES NOT PROVE A THING WHY EVEN GIVE THIS SCHOOL YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY THEY DON T RESPECT YOU AND THE STRESS YOU HAVE TO ENDURE WITHOUT THE ** THEY PUT YOU THRU NO WAY WOULD I GO HERE ID RATHER PUMP GAS

[RVCA1981]

PERSONALLY I THINK IT IS A DISGRACE THAT ROSS DOES THIS TO THEIR STUDENTS,,,DISMISS IF YOU DON T PASS 1 CLASS IS INSANE AND DOES NOT PROVE A THING WHY EVEN GIVE THIS SCHOOL YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY THEY DON T RESPECT YOU AND THE STRESS YOU HAVE TO ENDURE WITHOUT THE ** THEY PUT YOU THRU NO WAY WOULD I GO HERE ID RATHER PUMP GAS

Well... you can pump my gas anytime and hold a sign up to promote "St. Whatever school" while i laugh.

As for my Ross peeps, who missed by .000001% or something i would be pissed too. Im sure there is something they can do. Its all politics. I have the 1% blues too. i missed out on a 4.0...super super sad :cry:

[DRJJ1]

Well... you can pump my gas anytime and hold a sign up to promote "St. Whatever school" while i laugh.

As for my Ross peeps, who missed by .000001% or something i would be pissed too. Im sure there is something they can do. Its all politics. I have the 1% blues too. i missed out on a 4.0...super super sad :cry:


YEP ID RATHER PUMP YA GAS THAN GO TO ROSS WHO TOTALLY DISRESPECTS THE HUMAN RACE

[stephew]

YEP ID RATHER PUMP YA GAS THAN GO TO ROSS WHO TOTALLY DISRESPECTS THE HUMAN RACE

watch what you wish for..

[brob311]

Well... you can pump my gas anytime and hold a sign up to promote "St. Whatever school" while i laugh.

St Whatever school is St Matthews for this SMU cheerleader...I think someone received hater of 2007 for not getting accepted to a school like Ross




Hate, Hate, Hate!

[thecure4u]

If you are currently a 2nd or 4th semester and moved on via probation, then the rules state two options for you: 1. you're kicked out. 2. If you can convince them, you can repeat the semester over, and repeat the course you were on probation in from the previous 2 semesters. This is done by taking the exams with the material from both of the semesters in the class/es you were on probation with, but taking the repeated semester subject matter in the classes you were not on probation in.

Good Luck

I know of at least 2 people that did this and I think both of them are now moving on to 3rd semester next semester. However, with all of the new policy changes, I'm not sure this holds true anymore...

[vaneleus]

Because if you were kicked out, then you'd be praying it was by 15 points...wouldn't you be mad as hell if it was for 0.0001?

Sure I would be mad. That's not the point. The point is that a limit must be set, and if you are below that limit then you are below that limit regardless of the amount.

[brob311]

Sure I would be mad. That's not the point. The point is that a limit must be set, and if you are below that limit then you are below that limit regardless of the amount.

Another good point is that they round the scores up, that is if you have a 69.5, they will give you a 70. This is done so people cannot complain that they missed passing by .1, b/c they really missed it by 0.6, and any stats person could not argue giving them a passing grade.

[VSR]

There is too much complaining going on. Rules are Rules. You shouldnt be failing classes anyways. Especially if you are repeating the course for the 2nd time. If you are still worried about passing a course the 2nd time around taking the course you should seriously consider a change of careers! Cause it will only get harder.

[PiccoloPlaya]

Mods: can we merge this thread with the other repeat/dismissal threads please? Thanks!

[PiccoloPlaya]

Although from what I've heard, many people are dropping out and transferring...it still may not be that much though...

[ydobon]

YEP ID RATHER PUMP YA GAS THAN GO TO ROSS WHO TOTALLY DISRESPECTS THE HUMAN RACE

Ad hominem.

[doc_saffiya]

Oh the good ol' days. And it's still the same story again and again at ross, an unusually large number of people by some chance all fail to meet mps by 1-2%. When I was there back in 2005, 9 people from my circle of friends somehow all coincidentally failed by just a slight point or two in the end. Do they still not let you review your exams?

[jwhiteys]

Who cares if you fail by .001 or 15. Who cares what the committee will say or if you can even plead your case with them. How is it that some people are convinced that to be a doctor (a.k.a. someone in charge of other peoples well being) it is okay to fail and fail and barely inch by? If you fail out, it is most likely your own fault and not the school.

[jconlyway]

this is a must read for first semesters. Dont get behind, review past material, ask questions, see material minimum of 6 times before mini. is that about right? i pray i'll be ready after reading this thread. good blessings to all, passed or repeating.

[stateofequilibrium]

this is a must read for first semesters. Dont get behind, review past material, ask questions, see material minimum of 6 times before mini. is that about right? i pray i'll be ready after reading this thread. good blessings to all, passed or repeating.

There is no minimum. You can look at the material 100x or 100x over, but if you're not studying efficiently it doesn't matter. So make sure you find out what type of studying method works best for you to learn the material, and do practice questions!

[PiccoloPlaya]

Guys I didn't mean to freak anyone out by starting this thread. I feel bad about all the incoming 1st semesters freaking out. All you have to do is STAY ON TOP OF THINGS and you will be fine! But yeah, I definitely agree - failing by one point really sucks!

[PiccoloPlaya]

Oh the good ol' days. And it's still the same story again and again at ross, an unusually large number of people by some chance all fail to meet mps by 1-2%. When I was there back in 2005, 9 people from my circle of friends somehow all coincidentally failed by just a slight point or two in the end. Do they still not let you review your exams?

Why is it that everyone I talk to has either passed their courses by a single percent over MPS or failed the courses by a percent under MPS? This seems like too much of a coincidence...maybe the final curve to let students squeak by or something?

[smoking sam]

I know that if a student fails even one class, then the whole term has to be repeated. What if you fail more than one? How is it based, meaning is it based on whether or not you failed the class, or is is based on how many points you missed it by or how may classes you failed? Thank you.

[islandthrift]

If you fail one or two classes, you repeat the entire semester. If you fail three or more, you are academically dismissed. There have been some people that have failed three or more classes who went infront of the committee and were able to repeat.

[DrNick23]

last semester there was one guy who failed 3 classes by one percent and got kicked out, and another girl who failed all 5 classes by twenty percent and was allowed to repeat. Yes - she even failed dps, which is beyond me. And she is a second semester now. It may be a case-by-case basis, you never know.

you wouldn't happen to know the circumstances surrounding this would you?

[hokie459]

How common is it for people to actually have to repeat? Reading all these posts is worrying me a little. Just ballpark figures, how many people actually make it through w/o having to repeat?

[brob311]

You will see a number from 60-100 repeat or fail out of first semester, and second is like 50, and the numbers decrease as you get farther along.

[eyecon82]

You will see a number from 60-100 repeat or fail out of first semester, and second is like 50, and the numbers decrease as you get farther along.


well with the 500 people class sizes, i would say at least 200 will not get through without repeating at least once

[ILPsychDoc]

If you fail three classes you can go talk to the committee, I've seen students who are repeating 1st semester again, who were 1sts with me two semesters ago... the committee told them they could repeat if they waited one semester, to help fill up the usually smaller May class...