words from a ucsf med student....

[Island M.D]

hello all....my friend that I attended college with had a few things to say after mentioning that i will be going to a carib medical school. this is what he said...please anyone feel free to chime in your opinion about this!!! I don't see why carib grads are looked at so lowly by students/docs in the states?! :roll:

I was referring to the fact that you also got into a school in Guadalajara
(If I recall correctly). I am not sure if they are approved or not, but if they are then it should be an easy choice.

Stats don't matter as much as you think. Did you try applying to the american schools? How about the D.O. schools? I am sure you would have a great chance getting into a D.O. school and I think the applications are still open for some schools. It may suck to think that you would be a D.O. rather than an M.D. but it would be worth it in the end to be able to practice anywhere you want. There are even D.O.s here at UCSF.

In terms of prestige level, D.O.s are seen as having a more prestige than Carribean graduates. That is the sentiment I get from talking to people around here. Heck, there is even a Bay Area D.O. school called Touro University right there in Vallejo. You would be back in the Bay.

Well, that is my 2 cents. I am sure that is more information than you wanted to read. But if you have any questions please ask

[stephew]

the reality is that people who go offshore are people who failed to get into a us allopathic school. there is also very poor quality control of these schools. so skepticism is reasonable and healthy. Sometimes it translates to unwarrented bias. but its not uncalled for to have a healthy skepticism.

[AmericanIMG]

who listens to the words of a first year student anyway? they know nothing. talk to actual physicians at hospitals or at least upper level residents.

also, ask the average person the last time they asked their doctor where they went to med school...or what a DO is.

;)

[Pokerslut]

And who says that students/doctors look down on Carribean grads? Who cares. If you do your job and do it well that is all you can ask for and or do.

When someone asks me where I went to medical school I will say without hesitation St. Matthew's University in Cayman Islands. If they base my worth solely on where I went to school it would say more about them than anything else.

I agree with the post above; its somewhat expected the skeptiscism. Let you define you. And try to care less what people think.

[waleed33]

Well first I want to make the distinction betweed carib grads as you put it. Now if you are talking about students, then ya its not looked at that great and for reasons stated above. Grads on the other hand is somethign completely diff. If you are a grad and you passed all your exams and are in residency or practicing, well there is no difference. After med school people dont care.. no one asks no one cares with the exception of a few. I just did a rotation with a lady who did a combined specialty in Neurology and Psychiatry.. She gets referrals from US docs all the time. As a carrib student when I was doing rotations well.. It was a pain. It was usually along side US students but there was no intimidation factor no prob at all. It was only the occasional person who saw my coat and said SMU wheres that.. and then came the explanation.. this was annoying. When you finish your residency you dont get paid depending on where you went to school and no one really makes the distinction betweed US and foreign.The only real distinction is if you went to like Harvard or something but unless you did the US grads have nothing on the foreign ones. Note.. If you did go to harvard you will make regular US grads look small so that really isnt an issue. FOr now you are just gonna have to suffer through it though. As for the DO thing. It really is personal preference. I know alot of ppl who decided to go to the carrib instead of DO becuase they wanted the MD even though they got in to DO programs. When you are in practice if you are a good doc no one cares about carrib or US. Actually as far as practice anywhere well. Thats not entirely true.. now as far as I know the only country which recognizes DO's is the USA. IF I am wrong someone correct me but i dont think any other country accepts DO's yet. Now obviously most ppl want to stay in the US but personally I see myself leaving the country and practicing before I go to Kansas or even Cali.

Also depending on what you want to do the Carrib thing may not be the best idea. I read alot about the DO thing and supposedly some residencies wont look at DOs becuase of the fact that they are DOs.. now granted these same residencies typically wont allow foreign MDs but still. If you are planning on doing something that isn t competative well go for the carrib school no prob but if you want something competative.. but still not crazy like ortho .. well.. DO will probably give you a better chance at it.
anyways thats just my opinion

[AmericanIMG]

Well first I want to make the distinction betweed carib grads as you put it. Now if you are talking about students, then ya its not looked at that great and for reasons stated above. Grads on the other hand is somethign completely diff. If you are a grad and you passed all your exams and are in residency or practicing, well there is no difference. After med school people dont care.. no one asks no one cares with the exception of a few. I just did a rotation with a lady who did a combined specialty in Neurology and Psychiatry.. She gets referrals from US docs all the time. As a carrib student when I was doing rotations well.. It was a pain. It was usually along side US students but there was no intimidation factor no prob at all. It was only the occasional person who saw my coat and said SMU wheres that.. and then came the explanation.. this was annoying. When you finish your residency you dont get paid depending on where you went to school and no one really makes the distinction betweed US and foreign.The only real distinction is if you went to like Harvard or something but unless you did the US grads have nothing on the foreign ones. Note.. If you did go to harvard you will make regular US grads look small so that really isnt an issue. FOr now you are just gonna have to suffer through it though. As for the DO thing. It really is personal preference. I know alot of ppl who decided to go to the carrib instead of DO becuase they wanted the MD even though they got in to DO programs. When you are in practice if you are a good doc no one cares about carrib or US. Actually as far as practice anywhere well. Thats not entirely true.. now as far as I know the only country which recognizes DO's is the USA. IF I am wrong someone correct me but i dont think any other country accepts DO's yet. Now obviously most ppl want to stay in the US but personally I see myself leaving the country and practicing before I go to Kansas or even Cali.

Also depending on what you want to do the Carrib thing may not be the best idea. I read alot about the DO thing and supposedly some residencies wont look at DOs becuase of the fact that they are DOs.. now granted these same residencies typically wont allow foreign MDs but still. If you are planning on doing something that isn t competative well go for the carrib school no prob but if you want something competative.. but still not crazy like ortho .. well.. DO will probably give you a better chance at it.
anyways thats just my opinion

well said. don't be influenced by first yr US md students who know absolutely nothing.

[DOCplucinski]

well said. don't be influenced by first yr US md students who know absolutely nothing.
yes, touchez

[aaron1483]

well i can tell you that a very close friend of mine(who is a carib grad) who is in a general surgery residency at a very prestigous university...he told me that once you get into a residency then it really doesnt matter where you went to school, noone with any credibility gives a rip. Also, whenever i tell the physicians that i worked for as a tech during college (all are opthalmologists) that i am going to school in the cayman islands the only response i have ever gotten is, "man you are lucky, just try to keep focused"...keep in mind these are big time retina surgeons and ocular plastic surgeons.......so if they dont have a problem with it, then i wouldnt really lose any sleep over what a first year med student says.....just my 2 cents

[DRJJ1]

Well first I want to make the distinction betweed carib grads as you put it. Now if you are talking about students, then ya its not looked at that great and for reasons stated above. Grads on the other hand is somethign completely diff. If you are a grad and you passed all your exams and are in residency or practicing, well there is no difference. After med school people dont care.. no one asks no one cares with the exception of a few. I just did a rotation with a lady who did a combined specialty in Neurology and Psychiatry.. She gets referrals from US docs all the time. As a carrib student when I was doing rotations well.. It was a pain. It was usually along side US students but there was no intimidation factor no prob at all. It was only the occasional person who saw my coat and said SMU wheres that.. and then came the explanation.. this was annoying. When you finish your residency you dont get paid depending on where you went to school and no one really makes the distinction betweed US and foreign.The only real distinction is if you went to like Harvard or something but unless you did the US grads have nothing on the foreign ones. Note.. If you did go to harvard you will make regular US grads look small so that really isnt an issue. FOr now you are just gonna have to suffer through it though. As for the DO thing. It really is personal preference. I know alot of ppl who decided to go to the carrib instead of DO becuase they wanted the MD even though they got in to DO programs. When you are in practice if you are a good doc no one cares about carrib or US. Actually as far as practice anywhere well. Thats not entirely true.. now as far as I know the only country which recognizes DO's is the USA. IF I am wrong someone correct me but i dont think any other country accepts DO's yet. Now obviously most ppl want to stay in the US but personally I see myself leaving the country and practicing before I go to Kansas or even Cali.

Also depending on what you want to do the Carrib thing may not be the best idea. I read alot about the DO thing and supposedly some residencies wont look at DOs becuase of the fact that they are DOs.. now granted these same residencies typically wont allow foreign MDs but still. If you are planning on doing something that isn t competative well go for the carrib school no prob but if you want something competative.. but still not crazy like ortho .. well.. DO will probably give you a better chance at it.
anyways thats just my opinion

no matter how you slice it going do is not equal. You ask why not? Because the post above tells you that its only for us recogn and even in us some residencies are not allowed.soooo how is this equal...its not!!!

md is the way to go if this bothers you at all I think for me it is anyways

[DOCplucinski]

one of my good friend's dad is a vascular surgeon in a group that does the second most vascular cases in the country. these docs are very well known and most of the are foreign grads. not one of them has ever said something bad about going to school in the Caribbean. i've actually heard more praises than anything. like many that have said already, those who are actually in the field, there isn't much stigma. it is the outsides that the majority of the stigma comes from

[Island M.D]

So very true. I guess a first year med student isn't the best person to take advice from?? :p It is interesting to hear other's opinions though, since I have been mainly talking to foreign med students.

Now that I think about it...my endocrinologist who is taking very good care of me and my cancer (he is known to be one of the best doctors by the way!) went to med school in the Middle East somewhere....and my family pediatrician that my parents trust wholeheartedly, went to school in Asia! Funny..... ;)

[stateofequilibrium]

There is a difference between those foregin doctors trained in their home schools versus students who failed to get into medical schools in their home country and had to look to offshore schools in the Caribbean. Big difference actually.

[Island M.D]

Yeah, middle east and asia aren't carribean schools....what is the difference between those schools and carib schools?

[waleed33]

yes there is a HUGE diff b/w ppl who became docs in their country vs. ppl who graduated from the carrib... But then.. you also have to realize.. theres a HUGE diff b/w ppl in certain countries who graduated from those countries and then came to the US. vs.. MD US grads..
Honestly in order to get into med school here is tough.. but if you compare how hard it is in alot of countries esp. indian and middle eastern. or asian. well.. its much harder.. some of these places are so overpoulated that it is rediculous. Alot of them have a exam everyone has to take and only the top .1 % or less of the country is accepted in the med schools.. Also you must realize that alot of these countries have very few med schools as compared with the us.. So more ppl and less med schools.. well its easy to see what this results in.. This is why US grads usually only have a few students a who do get the 99s and alot of them are in the 80s and 70s on the usmle...
Also even when you are in med school in alot of these places when your done you are competing needing a visa. Where I did my internal med alot of indians were there straight from india and there was not one categorical indian internal med resident who got below 90s..
Alot of these ppl are not competing like us to get in the 90s.. or even to get 99 they are competing at who will get the highest 99..
anyways are they all prodigies.. well no but on average.. alot of these forgeign grads kill the US MDs because especially now only the cream of the cream gets a visa

[AmericanIMG]

actually many us students go BACK to schools in Asia etc to get their MD now, so in the end it doesn't matter. i know a medical school in india where 50% of the students are US citizens.

[stateofequilibrium]

Yeah, middle east and asia aren't carribean schools....what is the difference between those schools and carib schools?

Because, like 99% of the students from the Middle East or Asia or where have you AREN'T rejects. The vast majority of people who go to Caribbean schools are those who FAILED to get into a medical school in their home country.

What's the difference than in your opinion between US med schools, or even the lowest ranked US med school versus Caribbean?

[Island M.D]

..........

[Island M.D]

Nothing really...except the fact that you are not limited in where you can practice...but if the state that disapproves the school doesn't matter to you, then I don't really see a problem. I even got rejected from some of the carib med schools that are CA approved, but all that means is that there is just way too much competition....too many people applying for only a limited number of seats. Doesn't mean that I will be any less of a physician, it just means they didn't have enough room for me! But I know once I start practicing, there will be hospitals fighting over me! That's how I like to look at it...;)

[jameslynton]

Nothing really...... means is that there is just way too much competition....too many people applying for only a limited number of seats. Doesn't mean that I will be any less of a physician, it just means they didn't have enough room for me! But I know once I start practicing, there will be hospitals fighting over me! That's how I like to look at it...;)Medicine is a very competitive profession in some respects because of the limited number of spots in US schools. Generally most of the medical schools are state supported - the state's generally have only so much money to increase seats in medical schools each year. In state and federal government more money is getting spent on funding war right now and just to keep the lid on education and other spending - is difficult. So the island schools are able to develop a business model around filling the need of those not getting in US schools vs the actual medical needs of the US. You will see regular doom sayers who post that you will not get a residency. You need to balance that with the fact - that 70ish percent of all the grads will go into primary care from all schools. Work hard best wishes.

[aaron1483]

Because, like 99% of the students from the Middle East or Asia or where have you AREN'T rejects. The vast majority of people who go to Caribbean schools are those who FAILED to get into a medical school in their home country.

What's the difference than in your opinion between US med schools, or even the lowest ranked US med school versus Caribbean?


yes but alot of these schools are huts on piles of sand.....i.e. saddam hussein school of medicine, yeah i would really prefer a grad from there as opposed to a grad from sgu,saba,smu,ross,auc,aua etc.....NOT!:p

[Island M.D]

yes but alot of these schools are huts on piles of sandhaha...yes it is good to know that you will be attending a medical school with excellent facilities, faculty, and residency placements back in the states....and feel safe and comftorable at the same time... this is the main reason why SMU appeals to me so much....i do not want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars during these four years of my life in a place where I can't even see what all of my money is going towards...kindof materialistic but I must say that I do enjoy the greater things in life and a greater comfort of living...:cool: We are already sacrificing enough by going off shore just to get that M.D degree...might as well try to make the most of it.

[Junito]

The only real distinction is if you went to like Harvard or something but unless you did the US grads have nothing on the foreign ones. Note.. If you did go to harvard you will make regular US grads look small so that really isnt an issue.

Funny, I have seen Harvard trained doctors put down other US Schools (including Dartmouth) during lecture...:shock:

[Junito]

There is a difference between those foregin doctors trained in their home schools versus students who failed to get into medical schools in their home country and had to look to offshore schools in the Caribbean. Big difference actually.

Totally agree, that is why Harvard and a few other institutions do not take Carib students but do take other FMGs.

[Island M.D]

Totally agree, that is why Harvard and a few other institutions do not take Carib students but do take other FMGs.
well then who is the doctor that graduated from st.georges that is at harvard now?

[Junito]

I meant in respect to clinical rotations, not residency or for an attending position.

[Island M.D]

Oh ok. gotcha.

[cee]

i interviewed at Touro-Mare Island (the one in vallejo). seemed like a good school, however students were complaining that a lot of their rotations aren't in the bay area (ironically). they are in the process of fixing it. the campus is on an island that used to be an old naval base.. pretty cool. most of the kids in my interview group thought it was ghetto, but i didn't mind. anyways, i got waitlisted, which brought me to applying to the caribbean.. i think it was a blessing in disguise.

nothing wrong with the osteopathic philosophy, but i was never into it.. i would have only gone to a D.O. school to become a physician. i had no plan to practice OMT once i was done. deep down inside, a part of me doesn't feel right with being a D.O. knowing that i could care less about being an osteopath, specifically. For some reason, SMU just feels "right"

[stephew]

there are exceptions that prove the rule.well then who is the doctor that graduated from st.georges that is at harvard now?

[Island M.D]

i interviewed at Touro-Mare Island (the one in vallejo). seemed like a good school, however students were complaining that a lot of their rotations aren't in the bay area (ironically). they are in the process of fixing it. the campus is on an island that used to be an old naval base.. pretty cool. most of the kids in my interview group thought it was ghetto, but i didn't mind. anyways, i got waitlisted, which brought me to applying to the caribbean.. i think it was a blessing in disguise.

nothing wrong with the osteopathic philosophy, but i was never into it.. i would have only gone to a D.O. school to become a physician. i had no plan to practice OMT once i was done. deep down inside, a part of me doesn't feel right with being a D.O. knowing that i could care less about being an osteopath, specifically. For some reason, SMU just feels "right"

i agree...SMU feels "right" to me too.... I had a good feeling about this school the first day I was researching about carib med schools, and I honestly believe it will provide me with a quality medical education and get me to where I need and want to be. I just faxed my seat deposit for SMU a couple minutes ago....finally! :D

[DOCplucinski]

i
nothing wrong with the osteopathic philosophy, but i was never into it.. i would have only gone to a D.O. school to become a physician. i had no plan to practice OMT once i was done. deep down inside, a part of me doesn't feel right with being a D.O. knowing that i could care less about being an osteopath, specifically. For some reason, SMU just feels "right"
i don't know the figure, there was thread of MD vs. DO that got really ugly, anyway the majority of those who have graduated from DO schools do not practice the osteopathic part. i think more students go to DO schools because they couldn't get into a US allopathic school, not because they want to learn OMT

[cee]

i don't know the figure, there was thread of MD vs. DO that got really ugly, anyway the majority of those who have graduated from DO schools do not practice the osteopathic part. i think more students go to DO schools because they couldn't get into a US allopathic school, not because they want to learn OMT

i agree.... most of the D.O.'s in my town dont practice OMT. however, from a fundamental standpoint, i dont think i can wear those letters with pride knowing i could give a rat's behind about the philosophy. there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not my cup of tea.. i really dont want to turn this into an MD vs. DO thread, i just wanted to chime in and add my 2 cents. D.O. schools are great, but i dont think you should follow through with ANYTHING in life unless you really believe in it. ofcourse, i realize this AFTER i blow money on traveling for interviews and 2ndary applications :rolleyes:

[Island M.D]

..........

[Island M.D]

Well it's a good thing you realized it now...:D All the money you spent traveling for interviews and such is a drop in the bucket compared to what you will be making as an M.D after ten years! It all happened for a reason...maybe you had to go through all that to finally realize this isn't what your heart was set out to do. I'm glad you have found something that you will be content with for the rest of your life....its a big decision to make and you don't want to go back and regret anything you shoulda coulda woulda have done in the past! :rolleyes: Congrats again on your acceptance to SMU and see you on the island! :cool:

[got milk?]

i could never wear the D.O.
I don't want people asking me what it means, just as people asking me what school in the carib i go to.

with an MD, at least they won't tell the difference in the phone book.
I didn't even know what a D.O was until I applied to med school. I expect Joe Sixpack to not know either.
an MD is more glorified I think.
Miami is full of foreign trained docs. No one asks questions.