All Saints 4yr MD

[gary88]

can someone who has done all the pre-med courses at a Canadian university, without writing the MCAT, with average marks be admitted into the All Saints 4yr MD program?????

[jameslynton]

Most likely - However, there are schools that have been out longer like Saba, SMU, MUA-N, St James that do not require the MCAT and loves Canadians. So don't limit yourself.
The MCAT is a very doable exam. Don't let the fear of it hold you back. You could also get in AUC, Ross and SGU with a MCAT...

[DOCplucinski]

Most likely - However, there are schools that have been out longer like Saba, SMU, MUA-N, St James that do not require the MCAT and loves Canadians. So don't limit yourself.
The MCAT is a very doable exam. Don't let the fear of it hold you back. You could also get in AUC, Ross and SGU with a MCAT...

Depending on your grades you may need to submit (or take the MCAT) for Saba

[brob311]

Don't sell yourself short. If the MCAT scares you, then the USMLE will make you pee your pants for three straight weeks. It is good to see how you can handle a test like that. If you blow it, then you can apply to the schools that don't require an MCAT

[jameslynton]

Depending on your grades you may need to submit (or take the MCAT) for SabaHey - Well that is sort of the next step for Saba to require the MCAT.

[DOCplucinski]

Hey - Well that is sort of the next step for Saba to require the MCAT.

I guess so, since I've seen this come up so much and questions about it, I emailed Saba about it. They told me that in order for them to not ask you to submit the MCAT, you must have really good grades (3.6+) and a bachelor's degree. There may be other factors warranting them asking you to take or submit it, but it really is STRONGLY recommended.

[jameslynton]

I guess so, since I've seen this come up so much and questions about it, I emailed Saba about it. They told me that in order for them to not ask you to submit the MCAT, you must have really good grades (3.6+) and a bachelor's degree. There may be other factors warranting them asking you to take or submit it, but it really is STRONGLY recommended.With a 3.6 you could get into most US schools with a 28+ MCAT - so there is little risk their for Saba. I applied to Saba last year. I took the MCAT cold in 2005 - meaning I have not been in science since 1974 and did very little review for it. I scored ok except for Physical science where I got a 6.

[stateofequilibrium]

With a 3.6 you could get into most US schools with a 28+ MCAT - so there is little risk their for Saba. I applied to Saba last year. I took the MCAT cold in 2005 - meaning I have not been in science since 1974 and did very little review for it. I scored ok except for Physical science where I got a 6.

Not really. If you're from like California, Texas, NY or such.. you also have to have a lot going for you as well.

[phisigman03]

can someone who has done all the pre-med courses at a Canadian university, without writing the MCAT, with average marks be admitted into the All Saints 4yr MD program?????



If you are going to Dominica then you mind as well apply to Ross. There are people here that do not have MCAT score.

[DOCplucinski]

If you are going to Dominica then you mind as well apply to Ross. There are people here that do not have MCAT score.

???

you cannot be accepted at Ross without an MCAT score

[Genossa maximillian]

Did this school All Saints got the name because there were too many schools in the Caribbean with St. names on them already or it wanted to consolidate every possible St. Name out there or all the St. Islands in the Caribbean already had a medical school giving them no more choices ?

Just curious.

[what up doc]

Did this school All Saints got the name because there were too many schools in the Caribbean with St. names on them already or it wanted to consolidate every possible St. Name out there or all the St. Islands in the Caribbean already had a medical school giving them no more choices ?

Just curious.

Does it really matter how the school got its name????? last i checked it wasn't the name of the school/and all that other B.S. about my school being better than yours crap that got you residencies but your USMLE scores!!!!!!! Dont tell me that a person from the big 3 with USMLE scores of 70,70,70 on step 1,2ck,2cs respectively will get a residency over me when i have 90,90,90 respectively just because they went to one of the 'Big 3".........!!!!!!!!!!

[jameslynton]

Does it really matter how the school got its name????? last i checked it wasn't the name of the school/and all that other B.S. about my school being better than yours crap that got you residencies but your USMLE scores!!!!!!! Dont tell me that a person from the big 3 with USMLE scores of 70,70,70 on step 1,2ck,2cs respectively will get a residency over me when i have 90,90,90 respectively just because they went to one of the 'Big 3".........!!!!!!!!!!Hey what up Doc - you know about a year ago I thought just like you thought. I can go to any Island school new or old and study hard to an exceptional score on the Step exams and the world is my oyster.

However, since then I have had a chance to talk with, PM and read a bunch more on this subject. There is a thread in the St James forum where I was enlightened about this - If you have say a 245/90 USMLE score from a new school like All Saints, Xavier or even St James you are more likely a fluke in the eyes of PD (program director). You only have to cruise the AUC, SGU Saba and Ross forums to see their grads matching into some pretty good programs this year. Don't expect with your 245/90 score you are going to get the same consideration the same score at AUC, Ross, SGU and Saba grads will get. Compare apples to apples. They will have better clinical rotations - meet PD's who know 25-30 years of SGU, Ross and AUC grads. Well as for a person who scores a 175/70 - they will never make to clinicals from those schools because you need to score a 185 to pass - They will wash out on the step 1 exam and never get a chance for the step 2(s) unless they transfer. So you can't compare your passing score with their failing score.

I was accepted at AUA and St James. I made the decision to go back to school get a masters in Biology, and retake the MCAT after a study course for it. So I would have a good chance to get into SGU, AUC or Ross. Because where you go does matter!

[AUCMD2006]

Does it really matter how the school got its name????? last i checked it wasn't the name of the school/and all that other B.S. about my school being better than yours crap that got you residencies but your USMLE scores!!!!!!! Dont tell me that a person from the big 3 with USMLE scores of 70,70,70 on step 1,2ck,2cs respectively will get a residency over me when i have 90,90,90 respectively just because they went to one of the 'Big 3".........!!!!!!!!!!


depends were...some programs don't interview anyone who isn;t from one of the 3 'well' known schools so your application with the 90's will not even be looked at just like some programs will not even return your email unless it has a harvard.edu ending

but at most places that take img's it probably will not matter. i will say though that in all my interviews i was at there were mostly US grads, sgu, uag, auc (even ran into a classmate), ross and i didn't meet a single person from other schools..it could be their class sizes are small ort it could be that the program just didn't interview them

bottom line get into the best school you can...that being US, irel;and, australia, israel thern the carib with the most histoty and accreditations that you you are minimizing your limitations as much as possible. if you can only go to a newer school then know it may matter at some places, some styates will be out of the question, but also know that if you pass the exams you will likely get residency somewhere...now full licensure is a huge question mark until someone from that school actually gets one...until then it is 'possible' or 'likely' or each application is 'on individual basis'

[what up doc]

depends were...some programs don't interview anyone who isn;t from one of the 3 'well' known schools so your application with the 90's will not even be looked at just like some programs will not even return your email unless it has a harvard.edu ending

but at most places that take img's it probably will not matter. i will say though that in all my interviews i was at there were mostly US grads, sgu, uag, auc (even ran into a classmate), ross and i didn't meet a single person from other schools..it could be their class sizes are small ort it could be that the program just didn't interview them

bottom line get into the best school you can...that being US, irel;and, australia, israel thern the carib with the most histoty and accreditations that you you are minimizing your limitations as much as possible. if you can only go to a newer school then know it may matter at some places, some styates will be out of the question, but also know that if you pass the exams you will likely get residency somewhere...now full licensure is a huge question mark until someone from that school actually gets one...until then it is 'possible' or 'likely' or each application is 'on individual basis'

lol..... your points dont make sense:

first you say the programs wont interview a person who has a 90+ on steps because they are not from a certain school.. (ok i understand the Harvard part) but i dont think they care if your from Ross or All Saints or for a matter of fact from India..... they only care about the Step's scores....

Secondly, you claim that you did not run into anyone from "other" universities while interviewing for programs..... that depends on 2 things... 1) what were your step scores
2) what program you applied for

Thirdly, State licensing is done case by case no matter what/where you graduate from.... Knowing that some1 form a certain school got in does not guarantee that if you apply to that state you will get in... further more only a few states have strict laws about FMG doc getting lisensure other wise one can get "full licensure" anywhere he/she pleases!!!!

Finally, many people claim that you should go to a school with a good track record........ what good will ROSS do if you dont study..... what good will All Saints do if you dont study..... they both will do nothing thus i have concluded is that it doesnt matter where i study but how much i study and in the end if i happen to score 90+ 's on all my steps then there is no place that i can not get residency..........

[DOCplucinski]

but i dont think they care if your from Ross or All Saints or for a matter of fact from India..... they only care about the Step's scores....


this is wrong, yes, there are many programs that do care primarily on step scores...and there are programs that will not interview if you're not from certain, more established schools...that's the way it is, every program is different. to say that every single residency program in the country only cares about what you scored on your boards is very very wrong


state licensing is done case by case no matter what/where you graduate from.... Knowing that some1 form a certain school got in does not guarantee that if you apply to that state you will get in... further more only a few states have strict laws about FMG doc getting lisensure other wise one can get "full licensure" anywhere he/she pleases!!!!


yes and no, more established schools will have an easier process than newer schools...and you're right, just because a state licenses one All Saints grad, doesn't mean that in a year, they'll license another. also it is more like a handful of states one will not be able to be licensed in, although like AUCMD said, there is no way if really knowing until grads try in each state. so i'd hold off on saying, "anywhere he/she pleases"


Finally, many people claim that you should go to a school with a good track record........ what good will ROSS do if you dont study..... what good will All Saints do if you dont study..... they both will do nothing thus i have concluded is that it doesnt matter where i study but how much i study and in the end if i happen to score 90+ 's on all my steps then there is no place that i can not get residency..........

well i do say good luck to you and i have no idea what type of reputation all saints will have when you get to that point, but one can predict that Ross grads will be matching better than All Saints grads

[jameslynton]

this is wrong, yes, there are many programs that do care primarily on step scores......have no idea what type of reputation all saints will have when you get to that point, but one can predict that Ross grads will be matching better than All Saints gradsIt would be very safe to predict in four years - Ross Grads will be matching better than they are now. 2007 was very good for Ross.

Also you are concerned about other foreign schools in competition with All Saints. This years match was very competitive with more people in the match than ever before. I expect in 4-5 years it will be more so. Many of these foreign schools are older medical schools in other countries.

The question you have to ask yourself is this - Do I want a non competitive residency where I learn nothing but just repeat the same day over and over again for 3 years as some PD goffer.

[what up doc]

All of that is just speculation not actual fact.... thus they are meaningless at the moment because you never know what will happen in the future. I am sure tho that if i pass the USMLE steps then i will get residency (maybe a competitive one if i do well) and that is the main point i am trying to get across. Most ppl think that All Saints students will never get residency and i am just trying to clear up that misconception that they have.

[brob311]

You may be able to get a residency if accredidation holds up, but a competitve one will be really hard b/c you are competing against not only US grads, but US DO grads and more and moderately established caribb and foreign schools.

[jameslynton]

All of that is just speculation not actual fact.....Nice general statement - It is speculation for All Saints - that is true. For the other schools , SGU, Ross, AUC and Saba, it is more toward the factual side. See their match threads, check their website to see who matched where. Some of the newer schools matched fewer people. Look at those schools to see where your future may be in four years. As always work hard and best wishes.

[what up doc]

Some of the newer schools matched fewer people.

Here is a thought.... did it occur to you even once that New Schools match less students than older ones because they have less students. WOW!! what a statement that is... i mean if you only have 10 grads then how can you expect to match a 100 grads. And for the record All Saints, i feel, has already surpassed some of the older schools in the Caribbean!!!!

[AUCMD2006]

Here is a thought.... did it occur to you even once that New Schools match less students than older ones because they have less students. WOW!! what a statement that is... i mean if you only have 10 grads then how can you expect to match a 100 grads. And for the record All Saints, i feel, has already surpassed some of the older schools in the Caribbean!!!!

wait til the interview trail hits and where you actually get to interview to fall in love with a school. again its not all about board scores though they matter a great deal. once again some places will not look at your application if theya re not familiar with the program...take that for what its worth and at this point in your medical student developemnt that statement has very little meaning because very little is actually getting through

as for the numbers that isn't what you should focus on but where those are, type of program, etc....yey! i'l say it again get into the absolute best school you are capable of. if all saints is the best then make the most of it but know that as a new school you are charting a new course that can lead towards what SMU has done or what the other 20+ new schools have done...medical college of london, iuhs, grace, st luke, st chris, oceania, delphi and the rest we don't know about.

best of luck

[jameslynton]

...I mean if you only have 10 grads then how can you expect to match a 100 grads. ..Lets look at this percent wise when comparing schools.

I will use an example - St James a school further along than All Saints - Think this year with a class size of 20-23 people in the match - so far only one reports matching in IM, location - program unknown.

So lets use the class size of twenty in this example so 1/20 = 5% matched. Whereas at Ross, SGU, Saba and AUC about 85-90% matched or pre-matched and the rest scrambled.

I am sure if the All Saints owners and teachers are doing the correct thing - All Saints will be a good school - I also appreciate your willingness to be a pathfinder and I wish you well.

[jameslynton]

By the way I think last year St James places seven out of a class of about 20 in residency - least thats what the website said. That's about a 35% placement.

[DRJJ1]

By the way I think last year St James places seven out of a class of about 20 in residency - least thats what the website said. That's about a 35% placement.


let me tell you that I would never invest my time money energy into this school,,,the risks here outweigh the rewards,,imo,,,choose ya weapons in life and go for it me,,I like to reduce my risks in life if this is the only school you got into or can afford then go for it,,,what else can anyone say..if you want it you want it and you want it but deal with the results like a man when it comes at you like a speeding inferno of flames

[DOCplucinski]

Here is a thought.... did it occur to you even once that New Schools match less students than older ones because they have less students. WOW!! what a statement that is... i mean if you only have 10 grads then how can you expect to match a 100 grads. And for the record All Saints, i feel, has already surpassed some of the older schools in the Caribbean!!!!

you can't look at the amount of grads, what James was talking about was percentage.

anyway it is good to take pride in your school, although i'm curious to think what schools you feel All Saints has surpassed. I mean I don't know much about All Saints, but I don't know you could make a statement like that without even attending these other schools you speak of. Obvious comparisons would be state approval, federal loans, residency placement...the list goes on. All Saints does not have NY approval yet, that limits its comparison to only a few schools such as St. James. St. James already has grads in residency so right now, I don't even think you can compare them to that.

Bottom line, I'm glad that you love your school and as people as said before, you should try to get in the best school you can and if All Saints is the best, then kudos for you. You do have to be a little more realistic and face the possibilities of problems in the future. As the school progresses and is still around, those problems begin to diminish. As long as you have the understanding that you are an "explorer" and your school is just too new to really compare to even some of other newer schools (SMU, AUA, MUA-N, even St. James and Xavier) then you should be fine.

Good luck

[jameslynton]

From SGU's match thread - Why you may do 4 years at All Saints and other schools and still come up short in the match & scramble.

First Congrats to all that matched! (i matched too! general surg, categorical)

But, SGU did not do so well in the match (i'm speaking from what i've heard from my fellow sgu students who participated in the match this year). We did alright, but it was pretty disapointing. many scrambled and most of them got nothing...they only get a bill for finishing four years of med school.

***PLEASE TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION BEFORE COMING TO SGU***

Sobering?

[what up doc]

DOC, you do realize that AUA doesn't have federal loans either!!! and NY approval in reality means nothing for a schools program in terms of study for NY approval only grants schools the ability to do clinicals in NY!!! Residencies are gain on individual performance on the Steps not the school of graduation. Lastly, what are these problems of the future you speak of??? Also what school do you go to???

[stateofequilibrium]

DOC, you do realize that AUA doesn't have federal loans either!!! and NY approval in reality means nothing for a schools program in terms of study for NY approval only grants schools the ability to do clinicals in NY!!! Residencies are gain on individual performance on the Steps not the school of graduation. Lastly, what are these problems of the future you speak of??? Also what school do you go to???

I may be wrong on this, but I thought that you couldn't do residency in a state your school is not approved in?

[brob311]

Apparently you can, b/c he used 3 !'s and 3?'s with every statement that was made.

[what up doc]

To my knowledge, it is possible to do residency in NY even if your school is not on the NY approved list b/c of the main fact that the "approval" only is for clinicals not for residency. But in a state like California, the clause is that you school must be on the approved list to do clinicals and(or) residency. If i am wrong then plz have a State Board official send me a pm.

[jameslynton]

To my knowledge, it is possible to do residency in NY even if your school is not on the NY approved list b/c of the main fact that the "approval" only is for clinicals not for residency. But in a state like California, the clause is that you school must be on the approved list to do clinicals and(or) residency. If i am wrong then plz have a State Board official send me a pm.Yes, you can do residency in NY - the catch 22 is that if your school is not NY certified - you can't apply for a license there after it is over. So you are limited to 12 weeks clinical and no residency if you want to apply for a medical license in NY. It is in their website in the rules. No need to PM. It is not written in over technical legal verbiage either. Pretty clear. Also none of the new schools will have federal loans the Schools that are old like Ross, AUC and SGU are grandfathered in. Some action has been done to stop those schools from getting the Stafford loans also.

[what up doc]

Hmmmm.... that is rather weird.... could you provide the link to the site that clearly states this..... i would like to compare it to the site where i got my information..... lastly, thanks for the heads up.

[DOCplucinski]

Hmmmm.... that is rather weird.... could you provide the link to the site that clearly states this..... i would like to compare it to the site where i got my information..... lastly, thanks for the heads up.

its all in here

NYS Medicine Requirements (http://www.op.nysed.gov/medlic.htm)

[jameslynton]

Hmmmm.... that is rather weird.... could you provide the link to the site that clearly states this..... i would like to compare it to the site where i got my information..... lastly, thanks for the heads up.
You Will have to scroll around on the site but I think it is here in the fine print

NYS Medicine Application Forms (http://www.op.nysed.gov/medforms.htm)

Look at the forms 2CC and read carefully. This also has the list of approved schools on it.

[Hueller]

Sooner or later most of the new schools are going to get NY approval. It is a matter of time. I think the so called big four schools can't hold the monopoly & continue to charge high fees from students.

Regarding, loans, most of the major lenders require a school to exit atleast three years existence for providing loan.

I am told by one of the ASUM clinical student that their school do have 12 weeks IM clinical rotations in NY and the school is making arrangement to provide full rotations in New Jersey.

[jameslynton]

Sooner or later most of the new schools are going to get NY approval. It is a matter of time. I think the so called big four schools can't hold the monopoly & continue to charge high fees from students.

Regarding, loans, most of the major lenders require a school to exit at least three years existence for providing loan.

I am told by one of the ASUM clinical student that their school do have 12 weeks IM clinical rotations in NY and the school is making arrangement to provide full rotations in New Jersey.NY takes a site visit - then a vote for approval. There are schools older then AUA that have not even had a site visit. So the school has to request it. The site visit will cost the school money. They have to see # professors and degrees of professors, school facilities and tests the students are taking and grades. If the students are getting multiple choice test with one choice - well that is not going to fly well with them. Schools do not pass the sites visits. SMU and Ca comes to mind. Saba was effective dated in their Ca approval. 12 weeks is the max a non approved school can do in NY. Why is NY approval and clinicals important? Answer # of teaching hospitals is very high there.

[what up doc]

then how did AUA manage to get NY approval w/out a site visit?

also, thank you for all the info. it was really helpful.

[jameslynton]

then how did AUA manage to get NY approval w/out a site visit?

also, thank you for all the info. it was really helpful.AUA had their site visit in the Fall of 2005 - In late May-June of 2006 they were added to the list. From the site visit(s) to the school being added on the NY website was almost 9 months. If you did back in the AUA forum in this time frame you will see several threads about this. You will also see given to me much of the advise I wrote here. It was a major factor in me not going to AUA. I decided I was being very hasty in getting an MD. I needed to back up and do the correct steps #1 will be attempt to get into a US school after I finish a Masters in Biology. I will study for and retake the MCAT. Shooting for a high 30's number, If I don't get in a US school, then I will get a PhD and/or do a Island medical school.