want to know everything Med U of Lodz

[catherine1984]

My family is originally from Belgian. I am finishing my ** in and wanted to know About the medical schools in Poland. I wanted to know specially about Med U of Lodz because i am interested doing my rotations in the US. I checked out caribbean schools but NOT interested in them. Would appreciate if someone answer this who really know what they are talking about because i am serious and not just shooting the breeze.

[Zut Alors!]

Have you searchd for "Lodz," in these forums? There are a good number of threads where people discuss Lodz.

I've corresponded with admissions at a lot of these schools, including Lodz. Like a lot of these Polish schools, you can do a good amount of rotations in the US; but not your entire two years. I asked specifically if I could do an entire two years of clinical education in the US (like Caribbean schools do), and was told no; there are certain European clinicals not offered here (Intro to Dentistry is one tha comes to mind).

However, don't let that discourace you. Sounds like you will still have plenty of time to do many rotations in the US. As usual, check with admissions first and ask them all your questions; after that, make sure what they are saying syncs up with what people on here tell you so you know the school's not lying to you.

Lodz seems decent, nothing spectacular but nothing too shady, so to speak. However, they use an agent: AIM. This is definitely a negative thing, so if you apply, try to apply directly to the school if that's possible.

DeepRoller is a member here who plans on attending Lodz, I believe, and said he's spoke with graduates from Lodz so he can expound on the process of how easy or difficult it is to get residency here.

[Zut Alors!]

By the way, what about Caribbean schools did you "check out," and not like? St George's, Ross, SABA, and AUC all have a more impressive track record of graduates. Have you checked them out? You're only on the island for like 16 months, then you're back in the US entirely for clinicals. They are also more geared towards the USMLE. Not to dissuade you from Europe, but the Caribbean is in some ways an easier path and a reliable one to a certain extent (going to the Big 4).

[DeepRoller]

You can definitely do ALL of the second two years of school in the U.S. if you attend med school in Łódź (pronounced "wootch," in case you don't know). The Intro. to Dentistry thing is requirement of all Polish medical schools, which I'm told you do before you come back to the U.S. for junior clerkships (2nd year, that is). Otherwise, they're all in the U.S.

Internal Medicine, Surgery, and OB/GYN are done at ACGME hospitals in Conneticut. Family Medicine can either be done in West Virginia or Indiana. Psychiatry is at Tulane in New Orleans, Louisiana. And Pediatrics is in Chicago. Each of these hospitals also offers electives to Łódź students in those same disciplines. Otherwise, 4th year electives are taken where ever you wish to set them up (for instance, I'll probably do most of mine in Arkansas where I live). AIM will help you with that.

So that you can start reading their stuff on Łódź, here's the link to their website: AIM:Welcome to AIM (http://www.gotomedschool.com). If you want to send me a pm, I"ll send you some links to YouTube videos that show off the city, as well.

It should be noted, however, that Łódź is no more California-approved than any of the other Polish 4 year programs, if that is a concern of yours (as in, if you live in California and plan to continue to do that). Otherwise, there's a lot of good reason to go to school there. And you will have ample time to take the train to Belgium, if you so desire.

Feel free to PM me for any reason.

Cheers!

Michael

[sumozmom]

My family is originally from Belgian. I am finishing my ** in and wanted to know About the medical schools in Poland. I wanted to know specially about Med U of Lodz because i am interested doing my rotations in the US. I checked out caribbean schools but NOT interested in them. Would appreciate if someone answer this who really know what they are talking about because i am serious and not just shooting the breeze.
what made u rule out the caribbean?

[KluverB]

.... Otherwise, there's a lot of good reason to go to school there....

Good post, still be aware that DR has no actual first-hand knowledge of what it's actually like to be enrolled there.

[DeepRoller]

That's right...but the 11 people I've talked to about it do. And while some of them have experience with this, that doesn't mean each person's experience will necessarily be like theirs, right?

KB, what do you do? Hang out here waiting for someone to say something so that you can attempt to undermine it? Seems like you do.
If so...

http://www.valuemd.com/european-russian-medical-schools/121284-medical-university-lodz-poland-post560052.html#post560052 (<--read that)

I didn't say I the end-all be-all of knowledge on the Medical University of Lodz. I am merely sharing the things that I have learned from others who have been there hoping to help.

Cheers!

Michael

[Zut Alors!]

I don't know who told you abou the 2 years entirely in the US, DR; but I was told by admissions that it was not possible to do ALL of it. If you were told by an official that it IS possible, than that is a problem area, because either one of them is lying or they don't even know about their own program. Either way, a problem.

They told me nothing about having a flexible schedule where they'd move things around like Intro to Dentistry. Plus, there are supposed to be more than just that one that you would need to do.

If you have your heart set on the entire two years in the US, I'd strongly reccomend you e-mail them again and confirm that. I'll do the same.

[sumozmom]

I don't know who told you abou the 2 years entirely in the US, DR; but I was told by admissions that it was not possible to do ALL of it. If you were told by an official that it IS possible, than that is a problem area, because either one of them is lying or they don't even know about their own program. Either way, a problem.

They told me nothing about having a flexible schedule where they'd move things around like Intro to Dentistry. Plus, there are supposed to be more than just that one that you would need to do.

If you have your heart set on the entire two years in the US, I'd strongly reccomend you e-mail them again and confirm that. I'll do the same.
is the 2 yr thing consistant w/ allpolish schools or just this one?

[DeepRoller]

You know what? It doesn't matter what I tell you about what I've learned or where I learned it.
I'll just keep it for myself from now on.
Good luck to all in the process.

[KluverB]

KB, what do you do? Hang out here waiting for someone to say something so that you can attempt to undermine it? Seems like you do.

Yup, you found me out. Sometimes, late at night, when all my patients are all tucked in, I get a little bored.

And yes, from time to time I do undermine what I read here. Like I said, it was a great post. But someone's gotta play Devil's advocate. I'll be interested to hear how things are going once you get there. Until then best of luck.

peace out

[sumozmom]

........from the moment we become aware of the world around us, we begin to wonder about our place within it. The questions we ask are timeless: Why am I here? How do I fit into the scheme of things? What is my destiny? What’s my truth? .......each of us has an opportunity ......
take it

[Zut Alors!]

No need to get defensive. You said the school told you one thing (which I believe you that they did), and I said they told me another. I'll post the response if you like. You always seem to be on the defensive when someone criticizes one of these schools. It's a HUGE decision to uproot yourself, risk wasting a couple of years of your life for something that may turn out to be a scam, and thousands of dollars... it;s healthy to be a huge skeptic and not latch onto something that seems too good to be true.

[KluverB]

...If you were told by an official that it IS possible, than that is a problem area, because either one of them is lying or they don't even know about their own program. Either way, a problem....

I'm not even gonna touch the issue of "false advertising". But what you need to realize is that this problem is typical, at least with a few of the Polish schools. The fact is that the rules and regulations, especially for the English-language programs, aren't necessarily written anywhere in black and white. Therefore, a lot of things are decided on the spot by whichever admin happens to answer the phone. So you can potentially call at two different times of the day and get two different answers. The opposite of that is that almost all rules can be, well, bent. The dean of the program/school ultimately has the last say, and at times this can be to your advantage. We had a "rule" that said that you could do up to 1/2 of the 3rd and 4th year rotations abroad. A number of people did more. They got the dean's ok. Still, others tried to do the same and they were denied. Who knows why. Maybe the dean didn't like them. Maybe they spoke to the wrong admin. Maybe they pissed the adim off. I don't know.

I find this is a typical problem with all sort of bureaucratic organizations. Try calling the ECFMG, sometimes, to get a straight answer.

[Zut Alors!]

I'm not even gonna touch the issue of "false advertising". But what you need to realize is that this problem is typical, at least with a few of the Polish schools. The fact is that the rules and regulations, especially for the English-language programs, aren't necessarily written anywhere in black and white. Therefore, a lot of things are decided on the spot by whichever admin happens to answer the phone. So you can potentially call at two different times of the day and get two different answers. The opposite of that is that almost all rules can be, well, bent. The dean of the program/school ultimately has the last say, and at times this can be to your advantage. We had a "rule" that said that you could do up to 1/2 of the 3rd and 4th year rotations abroad. A number of people did more. They got the dean's ok. Still, others tried to do the same and they were denied. Who knows why. Maybe the dean didn't like them. Maybe they spoke to the wrong admin. Maybe they pissed the adim off. I don't know.

I find this is a typical problem with all sort of bureaucratic organizations. Try calling the ECFMG, sometimes, to get a straight answer.

Mhmm, I see; that does not instill much confidence in said institution.

[catherine1984]

You know what? It doesn't matter what I tell you about what I've learned or where I learned it.
I'll just keep it for myself from now on.
Good luck to all in the process.


Thank you everyone for your knowlege. And ty Micheal.
And to SUMOZMOM, it was very easy for me to make a decision to not go to the caribbean schools because my relative went to SGU and not even a semester went by in Grenada that she didn't get sick. IT IS A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY. Well thats beside the point but whats important is as follows.
About sgu--
the tuition fee including room and board is sky high. they themselves say that it is 50,000[fifty thousand] a year. So i would say think 50 K to 55K. 99% of the medical schools in US don't have this high of the tuition fee.
So by the time you come out of the school you are in debt of almost 200k to 220k. Think of 350 students entering twice a year minus the attrition rate for 4 years, they are making 120 million dollars/yr. And then besides this they have a vetirinary school, graduate school, MPH, bachelors[premed]. You talking easily more then 150 million dollars. And out of all this if you take out the money for salaries, construction, electricity, office supplies and all other little things then they cannot be spending more then 35million maximum. So some ppl are dividing more then 100 million.[please tell me if my math is wrong] Thats a whole lot of money. Hope IRS is keeping track.

Why am I saying this is because it may be a foreign medical school but still more then 90% americans who go to that school have rights because the school has a federal ID G2... something and the students get fafsa. And they receive all the money for every student from fafsa and the private loan companies at their NY office in long island.
Then the class is of 350 students and the ratio of teacher and student ranges from 25:1 to 40:1 depending on the class. The attrition rate as they say is 5% to 7% but i wouldn't be surprised if it is 10% to 12%. Most US medical schools attrition rate is not more then 1%. So why is their tuition fee more then US medical schools.
More then half of the teachers are retired so they did what they had to do in their lives and now just working for a big fat paycheck. And want to make as much money as they can till they can't do it anymore. And due to so many students in one class they don't really care about individual student if he is struggling or passing or failing, as long as they pass majority of them.
Their is No Honor, No Caring and No Respect anymore[except for few good teachers], everything is about money. I do have to say that most of the teachers are highly qualified. But they tend to forget that high qualification and age are Not enough to Earn respect.

Their clinical department is the worst. I went inside their site through my friend who is in one of the terms in grenada and found so many complains about their clinical department. Some of the students i talk to through my friend who get clinical placements or some who are doing clinical are Not happy. Most students have nothing good to say about the sgu clinical dean either. They don't say out loud because they just all wanna become doctors.

Then they advertise on many places that they have a most advance campus copare to other caribbean schools. And that is because they have internet now. Other UK, irish, australian and other european schools have internet from a long time but their tuition fee is half the price of sgu. why do they compare themselves with other caribbean schools and then charge the tuition fee which is more then US medical schools. Why don't they compare themselves to the US medical schols with their attrition rate.

Most of the caribbean, american and european schools use the same books so why goto expensive caribbean school.
I also heard that most caribbean schools including sgu prepare you for Usmle which is also crap because if it was so then why most sgu students would take Kaplan or falcan review courses.

Their st.vincent campus where medical students do 5th and 6th terms is the worse. Me being a girl would be afraid of going there. Last year I found through some of my friends who go to sgu that a girl was a victim there.

I have also read chancellor ******'s speech on substandard medical schools which didn't do nothing to me. What is he trying to say that sgu is better then every other school. My message to him is that if there is No caring then the school is nothing.

tell you what though, may be it started out as a great idea to open a foreign medical school for americans who can't get in US schools but somewhere along the line it just became a money making machine.

This should give you an idea about sgu. Can only talk about what i know, don't know about other caribbean schools.

[catherine1984]

You know what? It doesn't matter what I tell you about what I've learned or where I learned it.
I'll just keep it for myself from now on.
Good luck to all in the process.


Thank you everyone for your knowlege. And ty Micheal.
And to SUMOZMOM, it was very easy for me to make a decision to not go to the caribbean schools because my relative went to SGU and not even a semester went by in Grenada that she didn't get sick. IT IS A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY. Well thats beside the point but whats important is as follows.
About sgu--
the tuition fee including room and board is sky high. they themselves say that it is 50,000[fifty thousand] a year. So i would say think 50 K to 55K. 99% of the medical schools in US don't have this high of the tuition fee.
So by the time you come out of the school you are in debt of almost 200k to 220k. Think of 350 students entering twice a year minus the attrition rate for 4 years, they are making 120 million dollars/yr. And then besides this they have a vetirinary school, graduate school, MPH, bachelors[premed]. You talking easily more then 150 million dollars. And out of all this if you take out the money for salaries, construction, electricity, office supplies and all other little things then they cannot be spending more then 35million maximum. So some ppl are dividing more then 100 million.[please tell me if my math is wrong] Thats a whole lot of money. Hope IRS is keeping track.

Why am I saying this is because it may be a foreign medical school but still more then 90% americans who go to that school have rights because the school has a federal ID G2... something and the students get fafsa. And they receive all the money for every student from fafsa and the private loan companies at their NY office in long island.
Then the class is of 350 students and the ratio of teacher and student ranges from 25:1 to 40:1 depending on the class. The attrition rate as they say is 5% to 7% but i wouldn't be surprised if it is 10% to 12%. Most US medical schools attrition rate is not more then 1%. So why is their tuition fee more then US medical schools.
More then half of the teachers are retired so they did what they had to do in their lives and now just working for a big fat paycheck. And want to make as much money as they can till they can't do it anymore. And due to so many students in one class they don't really care about individual student if he is struggling or passing or failing, as long as they pass majority of them.
Their is No Honor, No Caring and No Respect anymore[except for few good teachers], everything is about money. I do have to say that most of the teachers are highly qualified. But they tend to forget that high qualification and age are Not enough to Earn respect.

Their clinical department is the worst. I went inside their site through my friend who is in one of the terms in grenada and found so many complains about their clinical department. Some of the students i talk to through my friend who get clinical placements or some who are doing clinical are Not happy. Most students have nothing good to say about the sgu clinical dean either. They don't say out loud because they just all wanna become doctors.

Then they advertise on many places that they have a most advance campus copare to other caribbean schools. And that is because they have internet now. Other UK, irish, australian and other european schools have internet from a long time but their tuition fee is half the price of sgu. why do they compare themselves with other caribbean schools and then charge the tuition fee which is more then US medical schools. Why don't they compare themselves to the US medical schols with their attrition rate.

Most of the caribbean, american and european schools use the same books so why goto expensive caribbean school.
I also heard that most caribbean schools including sgu prepare you for Usmle which is also crap because if it was so then why most sgu students would take Kaplan or falcan review courses.

Their st.vincent campus where medical students do 5th and 6th terms is the worse. Me being a girl would be afraid of going there. Last year I found through some of my friends who go to sgu that a girl was a victim there.

I have also read chancellor ******'s speech on substandard medical schools which didn't do nothing to me. What is he trying to say that sgu is better then every other school. My message to him is that if there is No caring then the school is nothing.

tell you what though, may be it started out as a great idea to open a foreign medical school for americans who can't get in US schools but somewhere along the line it just became a money making machine.

This should give you an idea about sgu. Can only talk about what i know, don't know about other caribbean schools.

[Miklos]

About sgu--
the tuition fee including room and board is sky high. they themselves say that it is 50,000[fifty thousand] a year. So i would say think 50 K to 55K. 99% of the medical schools in US don't have this high of the tuition fee.

You are mistaken. Take a look at private allopathic schools and osteopathic schools and you will find comparable tuition rates. As far as off-shore schools go, at least one Irish school is even more expensive given the weakness of the dollar, strength of the euro.

So by the time you come out of the school you are in debt of almost 200k to 220k. Think of 350 students entering twice a year minus the attrition rate for 4 years, they are making 120 million dollars/yr. And then besides this they have a vetirinary school, graduate school, MPH, bachelors[premed]. You talking easily more then 150 million dollars. And out of all this if you take out the money for salaries, construction, electricity, office supplies and all other little things then they cannot be spending more then 35million maximum. So some ppl are dividing more then 100 million.[please tell me if my math is wrong] Thats a whole lot of money. Hope IRS is keeping track. Truth is that this institution offers an education for a price (as do European English language programs). No one compels anyone to attend SGU, yet they turn away applicants.

Why am I saying this is because it may be a foreign medical school but still more then 90% americans who go to that school have rights because the school has a federal ID G2... something and the students get fafsa. And they receive all the money for every student from fafsa and the private loan companies at their NY office in long island.Huh?

Then the class is of 350 students and the ratio of teacher and student ranges from 25:1 to 40:1 depending on the class. The attrition rate as they say is 5% to 7% but i wouldn't be surprised if it is 10% to 12%. Most US medical schools attrition rate is not more then 1%. So why is their tuition fee more then US medical schools. First, the accepted average attrition rate for US school is around 5%. Second, given that SGU's applicants could not get into a US school for whatever reason, it seems reasonable to predict that they may be at least slightly less prepared than US students. Third, English programs at European schools have sky high attrition rates by comparison. Fourth, we've already covered the tuition argument, but let me expand below.

More then half of the teachers are retired so they did what they had to do in their lives and now just working for a big fat paycheck. And want to make as much money as they can till they can't do it anymore. And due to so many students in one class they don't really care about individual student if he is struggling or passing or failing, as long as they pass majority of them.
Their is No Honor, No Caring and No Respect anymore[except for few good teachers], everything is about money. I do have to say that most of the teachers are highly qualified. But they tend to forget that high qualification and age are Not enough to Earn respect. What you forget to mention is that SGU flies in some super teachers from the US, who also teach for Kaplan's review courses.

Their clinical department is the worst. I went inside their site through my friend who is in one of the terms in grenada and found so many complains about their clinical department. Some of the students i talk to through my friend who get clinical placements or some who are doing clinical are Not happy. Most students have nothing good to say about the sgu clinical dean either. They don't say out loud because they just all wanna become doctors.If you think that SGU's clinicals have problems, you haven't a clue about clinicals at European schools.

Then they advertise on many places that they have a most advance campus copare to other caribbean schools. And that is because they have internet now. Other UK, irish, australian and other european schools have internet from a long time but their tuition fee is half the price of sgu. why do they compare themselves with other caribbean schools and then charge the tuition fee which is more then US medical schools. Why don't they compare themselves to the US medical schols with their attrition rate. Well, because if you look at their residency placements, they beat all the other off-shore schools hands down.

Most of the caribbean, american and european schools use the same books so why goto expensive caribbean school.
I also heard that most caribbean schools including sgu prepare you for Usmle which is also crap because if it was so then why most sgu students would take Kaplan or falcan review courses. The reason they might, is because Step 1 is so damn important for IMGs. Lots of students from foreign schools complete reviews in the hope that it will boost their score.

I have also read chancellor ******'s speech on substandard medical schools which didn't do nothing to me. What is he trying to say that sgu is better then every other school. My message to him is that if there is No caring then the school is nothing.If you think that any of the European schools with English programs (or their agents) care about anything other than your ability to pay, you will be sorely mistaken.

tell you what though, may be it started out as a great idea to open a foreign medical school for americans who can't get in US schools but somewhere along the line it just became a money making machine.

This should give you an idea about sgu. Can only talk about what i know, don't know about other caribbean schools.Actually, it is a great idea for them to be money making machines. After all, students chose to attend these schools. No one is forcing them. They've made their own calculations as to whether this is worth it.

[sumozmom]

Thank you everyone for your knowlege. And ty Micheal.
And to SUMOZMOM, it was very easy for me to make a decision to not go to the caribbean schools because my relative went to SGU and not even a semester went by in Grenada that she didn't get sick. IT IS A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY. Well thats beside the point but whats important is as follows.
About sgu--
the tuition fee including room and board is sky high. they themselves say that it is 50,000[fifty thousand] a year. So i would say think 50 K to 55K. 99% of the medical schools in US don't have this high of the tuition fee.
So by the time you come out of the school you are in debt of almost 200k to 220k. Think of 350 students entering twice a year minus the attrition rate for 4 years, they are making 120 million dollars/yr. And then besides this they have a vetirinary school, graduate school, MPH, bachelors[premed]. You talking easily more then 150 million dollars. And out of all this if you take out the money for salaries, construction, electricity, office supplies and all other little things then they cannot be spending more then 35million maximum. So some ppl are dividing more then 100 million.[please tell me if my math is wrong] Thats a whole lot of money. Hope IRS is keeping track.

Why am I saying this is because it may be a foreign medical school but still more then 90% americans who go to that school have rights because the school has a federal ID G2... something and the students get fafsa. And they receive all the money for every student from fafsa and the private loan companies at their NY office in long island.
Then the class is of 350 students and the ratio of teacher and student ranges from 25:1 to 40:1 depending on the class. The attrition rate as they say is 5% to 7% but i wouldn't be surprised if it is 10% to 12%. Most US medical schools attrition rate is not more then 1%. So why is their tuition fee more then US medical schools.
More then half of the teachers are retired so they did what they had to do in their lives and now just working for a big fat paycheck. And want to make as much money as they can till they can't do it anymore. And due to so many students in one class they don't really care about individual student if he is struggling or passing or failing, as long as they pass majority of them.
Their is No Honor, No Caring and No Respect anymore[except for few good teachers], everything is about money. I do have to say that most of the teachers are highly qualified. But they tend to forget that high qualification and age are Not enough to Earn respect.

Their clinical department is the worst. I went inside their site through my friend who is in one of the terms in grenada and found so many complains about their clinical department. Some of the students i talk to through my friend who get clinical placements or some who are doing clinical are Not happy. Most students have nothing good to say about the sgu clinical dean either. They don't say out loud because they just all wanna become doctors.

Then they advertise on many places that they have a most advance campus copare to other caribbean schools. And that is because they have internet now. Other UK, irish, australian and other european schools have internet from a long time but their tuition fee is half the price of sgu. why do they compare themselves with other caribbean schools and then charge the tuition fee which is more then US medical schools. Why don't they compare themselves to the US medical schols with their attrition rate.

Most of the caribbean, american and european schools use the same books so why goto expensive caribbean school.
I also heard that most caribbean schools including sgu prepare you for Usmle which is also crap because if it was so then why most sgu students would take Kaplan or falcan review courses.

Their st.vincent campus where medical students do 5th and 6th terms is the worse. Me being a girl would be afraid of going there. Last year I found through some of my friends who go to sgu that a girl was a victim there.

I have also read chancellor ******'s speech on substandard medical schools which didn't do nothing to me. What is he trying to say that sgu is better then every other school. My message to him is that if there is No caring then the school is nothing.

tell you what though, may be it started out as a great idea to open a foreign medical school for americans who can't get in US schools but somewhere along the line it just became a money making machine.

This should give you an idea about sgu. Can only talk about what i know, don't know about other caribbean schools.
ok so please tell me why lodz over lublin ( b/c i am considering lublin)

thnx

[DeepRoller]

I wasn't being defensive. And I didn't say that I'd talked to anyone at the university (although, I have). But what I did say, and what I have consistently said about all the Polish med schools, is that is incumbent upon the individual student to handle his or her own crap. The school doesn't have much at all to do with it, in my opinion. And the 11 people to which I referred, are all either attending currently (both pre-clinical and clinical), or are in a residency somewhere in the U.S.

As for what I learned from the people at AIM and the Medical University of Lodz was just what KluberB was talking about: inconsistency, all the way around. I am, however, able to find enough consistency in what even they tell me-compared to what the current and former students tell me-to make a decision one way or another. And I will.

I simply choose not to focus on the things that most people on here do; which seems to be a long series of asking the same questions over and over again with the intent (or rather, hope) of eliminating uncertainty in making this decision. My opinion about that is that its not possible to do so. That's why I keep going back to (what I believe is a fact), that this process is about you...and not the school.

Everyone here focuses on the school, generally. That seems a bit backward to me.

One thing that you should know, however, as I write to you now (and yesterday), I am in Poland having a look around. And I gotta tell you, the folks going to school here, are telling many more good things than bad-although they are telling me some bad, "hope-that-doesn't-happen-to-me" kinda stuff. But some of it might because that can't all be control for. This isn't some chemistry experiment in a lab! This is Lodz, Poland. And it looks pretty nice to me. So it's looking like I might go here.

I agree with KluberB, and Miklos, and others...
TAKE THEE HENCE TO POLAND! See for yourself.

Cheers to all!

Michael

[sumozmom]

I wasn't being defensive. And I didn't say that I'd talked to anyone at the university (although, I have). But what I did say, and what I have consistently said about all the Polish med schools, is that is incumbent upon the individual student to handle his or her own crap. The school doesn't have much at all to do with it, in my opinion. And the 11 people to which I referred, are all either attending currently (both pre-clinical and clinical), or are in a residency somewhere in the U.S.

As for what I learned from the people at AIM and the Medical University of Lodz was just what KluberB was talking about: inconsistency, all the way around. I am, however, able to find enough consistency in what even they tell me-compared to what the current and former students tell me-to make a decision one way or another. And I will.

I simply choose not to focus on the things that most people on here do; which seems to be a long series of asking the same questions over and over again with the intent (or rather, hope) of eliminating uncertainty in making this decision. My opinion about that is that its not possible to do so. That's why I keep going back to (what I believe is a fact), that this process is about you...and not the school.

Everyone here focuses on the school, generally. That seems a bit backward to me.

One thing that you should know, however, as I write to you now (and yesterday), I am in Poland having a look around. And I gotta tell you, the folks going to school here, are telling many more good things than bad-although they are telling me some bad, "hope-that-doesn't-happen-to-me" kinda stuff. But some of it might because that can't all be control for. This isn't some chemistry experiment in a lab! This is Lodz, Poland. And it looks pretty nice to me. So it's looking like I might go here.

I agree with KluberB, and Miklos, and others...
TAKE THEE HENCE TO POLAND! See for yourself.

Cheers to all!

Michael
did u go to lublin?

[cron0s]

I agree with much of what you say, DeepRoller. There are far too many people posting the same inane questions "which is better, X or Y school" etc, when really there is no answer.

In Poland all the universities that run English language programs are established and respectable institutions that have been graduating skilled Polish doctors for many years. There may of course be problems specific to the English program, but they are certainly not a "scam". Just because some are associated with agents or that you can't always get a straight answer from the administration doesn't mean they are necessarily incompetent, dishonest or corrupt.

The best advice is always to visit the school in person and see how things are for yourself.

[DeepRoller]

No, not Lublin.
So far, only Warsaw (just the city) and Lodz.
Tuesday afternoon, I'm going to Gdansk. Then on Wednesday, back to Warsaw to visit the university. Then Thursday, I hop on a LOT and go back to the U.S.

[sumozmom]

No, not Lublin.
So far, only Warsaw (just the city) and Lodz.
Tuesday afternoon, I'm going to Gdansk. Then on Wednesday, back to Warsaw to visit the university. Then Thursday, I hop on a LOT and go back to the U.S.
why is lublin not on the list?

[Zut Alors!]

Because he's not interested in Lublin.

They are affiliated with a shady agent and the city has the lowest per capita income in all of Europe, I believe. Strikes one and two.

As far as the OP bashing Caribbean schools like SGU over Euroe schools, wow; Miklos pretty much hit all of it on the head. Look at SGU's track record. There's a thread in the SGU section of these forums called something like "is it worth all this money?" I'd say so; they seem to do a good job at providing you with the tools necessary to make yourself a success. I'd say that's worth any amount of debt. I don't want to become a doctor to be rich, to save money, or to take a financial shortcut.

[DeepRoller]

Lublin isn't on the list for a very simple reason: there's nothing there.
It has nothing to do with the agent; although I will agree that if what everyone says is true about HMI, I wouldn't want to do with them, either.

Lublin happens to be a little Polish backwater that doesn't have any attraction to me at all. I want some of the Polish nightlife. I want to be able to get on a train and connect with the rest of the continent in short order. I want to be in a larger place. I want to be able to go to Pizza Hut or Kentucky Fried Chicken. And I fear that Lublin is more like the Ukraine than Poland. And I definitely don't want that. Not to be down on the Ukraine...

Screw the agents! They're all pains in the butt, from what I can tell and what I'm been through so far.

I suggest if you want to go to Lublin, then go check it out. If you still want to, then go there.

Lublin just isn't for me. And this thread wasn't about Lublin, anyway.

Michael

[catherine1984]

ok so please tell me why lodz over lublin ( b/c i am considering lublin)

thnx

Sry sumozmom can't help you. Don't want to steer you in the wrong direction. I don't know. But you have one option. Just spend 700 or 800 dollars and go there and see it for urself. This is the only way you will get the satisfaction. In my opinion if your heart is set on becoming a MD its better to spend few dollars Now and find it for yourself then to wake up one day with a debt of 200k.

I have applied to 7 schools in europe and i am going to see my family in belgium in May and i would want to go and see these schools myself. No body knows anything for sure unless they have been there or in school right now. So my advise is talk to the school officials and then go and see the school on your own.

[oshka55]

Zut Alors:

I read the same thing today and I totally agree with you. For some people living in the islands might not be pleasant due to xyz. But I do agree that it's worth the money if this is where you want to go. Just out of curiosity do you know where your going to end up?

[oshka55]

Deep Roller:
They have Kentucky Fried Chicken in Poland? lol ...i didn't see any....but i guess they might.

[Zut Alors!]

Zut Alors:

Just out of curiosity do you know where your going to end up?

Ahh, time to wax philosophical; if only any of us knew!

[cron0s]

Deep Roller:
They have Kentucky Fried Chicken in Poland? lol ...i didn't see any....but i guess they might.

We have KFC here and they even deliver to the dorms :p

[oshka55]

Ahh, time to wax philosophical; if only any of us new!

hehe..yeah. Do you think it's going to be Europe or the islands? I see that you are from NY, where about?

[oshka55]

We have KFC here and they even deliver to the dorms :p

wow ...nice! Where in Poland are you?

[Zut Alors!]

hehe..yeah. Do you think it's going to be Europe or the islands? I see that you are from NY, where about?

Well, in order of preference: US; Big 4; Philippines/Europe; lower-tier Caribbean.

I live about 30 minutes east of Manhattan on Long Island. You?

[catherine1984]

You are mistaken. Take a look at private allopathic schools and osteopathic schools and you will find comparable tuition rates. As far as off-shore schools go, at least one Irish school is even more expensive given the weakness of the dollar, strength of the euro.

Truth is that this institution offers an education for a price (as do European English language programs). No one compels anyone to attend SGU, yet they turn away applicants.

Huh?

First, the accepted average attrition rate for US school is around 5%. Second, given that SGU's applicants could not get into a US school for whatever reason, it seems reasonable to predict that they may be at least slightly less prepared than US students. Third, English programs at European schools have sky high attrition rates by comparison. Fourth, we've already covered the tuition argument, but let me expand below.

What you forget to mention is that SGU flies in some super teachers from the US, who also teach for Kaplan's review courses.

If you think that SGU's clinicals have problems, you haven't a clue about clinicals at European schools.

Well, because if you look at their residency placements, they beat all the other off-shore schools hands down.

The reason they might, is because Step 1 is so damn important for IMGs. Lots of students from foreign schools complete reviews in the hope that it will boost their score.

If you think that any of the European schools with English programs (or their agents) care about anything other than your ability to pay, you will be sorely mistaken.

Actually, it is a great idea for them to be money making machines. After all, students chose to attend these schools. No one is forcing them. They've made their own calculations as to whether this is worth it.


Now let me understand this, you are comparing sgu's tuition fee to ONE school in Ireland and Not to 135 medical schools in US and Canada. When on the other hand sgu is always conmparing itself to US schools. I would say that its a very very weak arguement. I would let others decide.
If you go to the front page of sgu you would see the sgu campus from different angles and everytime you go on that page there would be a different picture. So first of all they show you all the glitter and then they have the nerve to say ' we don't force you to come to sgu and people choose to come if they want to'. I would say Boycott Sgu.

Before considering SGU and listening to KISS ***** like Miklos people should read the following.

Like Miklos said sgu is the institution that offers an education for a price and then so does european schools; so my arguement is why not goto to a cheaper place and get the same education. In this way you have less to pay back later after you are married and have few kids.

One of my statements above Miklos said 'Huh', so i want to say more about it. To all the american students who have been mistreated or disrespected in any way' you have rights'. I can give you the names of the lawters who will fight for you. And i hope you win, but win or lose is not important. To file a lawsuit in the NY state is important and if enough lawsuits are filed against this college for genuine reasons then i hope somewhere some judge would request the federal govt. to stop the fafsa to this school. And i hope then they will wake up.

I went to the open house of this school and my mom and me met 2 families whose kids have been mistreated by the officials of the sgu. We turn back right then and there with others. I was just glad that people are coming out and talking about it.
Teachers in sgu have big EGO. Now ego is good if its working for the betterment of each and every student but bad is its Not, later is true in sgu.

Before joining the sgu you should look into the history of previous employment of the sgu teachers, rather they should put it on their website because it should be public knowledge. This is because if they can mistreat and disrespect few student then its a pattern and they must have done this in the past too. And if this comes out to be true then they have No right to be hired and working for a teaching institution. They should be fired.

Find out if there is any lawsuit filed against the sgu in the past by any student. Well this is a public knowledge and if its not then any lawyer or a court administrator should tell you by a mere phone call.

I know an asian student who is building a website telling what has happened to him in sgu and how he was disrespected and misteated by the teachers and deans of sgu. In time i will direct your attention to that too.
And if there is any lawsuit you can surely trust that i would keep you posted.

And as far as the residencies are concerned that is also not good. If that was good then the Canadians wouldn't be working for 10/hr in the sgu office after graduation waiting for the residenciesfor 6months to a year.

I would say even if one student is mistreated and disrespected, is one too many.
When my mom and me heard those families outside the open house we turned back and said 'BOYCOTT SGU'.

remember always'everything that glitters is Not gold'. This is certainly the case with sgu.

[oshka55]

Well, in order of preference: US; Big 4; Philippines/Europe; lower-tier Caribbean.

I live about 30 minutes east of Manhattan on Long Island. You?

Sounds good!

I'm in PA, but i used to live in manhattan. Well, stay there almost every summer. Long Island is a pretty nice....

[KluverB]

...To all the american students who have been mistreated or disrespected in any way' you have rights'. I can give you the names of the lawters [sic] who will fight for you. And i hope you win, but win or lose is not important. To file a lawsuit in the NY state is important and if enough lawsuits are filed against this college for genuine reasons then i hope somewhere some judge would request the federal govt. to stop the fafsa to this school. And i hope then they will wake up....

:bla: Yawn...

Are you an agent for this law firm? :D

Typical approach this side of the pond: put money into the pockets of lawyers. Sure, why not. Not sure how things work in the Carib, close ties to the US; still these are not the US, and they don't necessarily obey the same laws. People get disrespected by teachers all over the world. Builds character. It used to build character around here. Now teachers are scared of the students. You think that makes it better? But I don't believe this is the thread for that. Or for talking about SGU, for that matter.

Either way, as some of us keeps re-iterating over and over again. Non-US/Canadian schools are second rate places as seen by the US/Canadian medical system. Still, some are lower on the rung than others. They are not run like US schools. Things don't get handed out on a silver platter and the material is not spoon fed. The profs don't give a sh*t about you. At least be thankful they don't, 'cause when they do, that's when the said abuse begins. Their just having their fun. I would too if I had to put with some of the nonsense I've seen foreign students dish out. They're enrolled in a school in a different country, a different culture, a different view, and they stride in like their the bomb and make all sorts of demands. Well, guess what, that sh*t don't fly over there. And I hope a lot of it never does. You go over there, you take your chances. That's another reason why we keep repeating, go over there and check it out before you enroll! And when you listen to students over there, be aware, they lie too. They don't want to bad-mouth their school for fear that it will make them look stupid, but even more, they fear it may affect their chances of getting residency later on. After all, if word got out that at this school... sh*t happens... well. Oh by the way, don' think this problem is endemic to "off-shore" schools only. You'd be surprised how much cr*p I heard during my residency interviews. People lie. It's simple psychology.

In short, you go "off-shore", you take charge of your own education and your personal discipline. Deal with it.

And now, to get my lawschool applications together... :rolleyes:

[sumozmom]

Because he's not interested in Lublin.

They are affiliated with a shady agent and the city has the lowest per capita income in all of Europe, I believe. Strikes one and two.

As far as the OP bashing Caribbean schools like SGU over Euroe schools, wow; Miklos pretty much hit all of it on the head. Look at SGU's track record. There's a thread in the SGU section of these forums called something like "is it worth all this money?" I'd say so; they seem to do a good job at providing you with the tools necessary to make yourself a success. I'd say that's worth any amount of debt. I don't want to become a doctor to be rich, to save money, or to take a financial shortcut.
the agent is irrelivant ...its about what u come away with...itswhat u make it.

[sumozmom]

Lublin isn't on the list for a very simple reason: there's nothing there.
It has nothing to do with the agent; although I will agree that if what everyone says is true about HMI, I wouldn't want to do with them, either.

Lublin happens to be a little Polish backwater that doesn't have any attraction to me at all. I want some of the Polish nightlife. I want to be able to get on a train and connect with the rest of the continent in short order. I want to be in a larger place. I want to be able to go to Pizza Hut or Kentucky Fried Chicken. And I fear that Lublin is more like the Ukraine than Poland. And I definitely don't want that. Not to be down on the Ukraine...

Screw the agents! They're all pains in the butt, from what I can tell and what I'm been through so far.

I suggest if you want to go to Lublin, then go check it out. If you still want to, then go there.

Lublin just isn't for me. And this thread wasn't about Lublin, anyway.

Michael
thank you for feed bk

[Miklos]

:bla: Yawn...

Are you an agent for this law firm? :D

Typical approach this side of the pond: put money into the pockets of lawyers. Sure, why not. Not sure how things work in the Carib, close ties to the US; still these are not the US, and they don't necessarily obey the same laws. People get disrespected by teachers all over the world. Builds character. It used to build character around here. Now teachers are scared of the students. You think that makes it better? But I don't believe this is the thread for that. Or for talking about SGU, for that matter.

Either way, as some of us keeps re-iterating over and over again. Non-US/Canadian schools are second rate places as seen by the US/Canadian medical system. Still, some are lower on the rung than others. They are not run like US schools. Things don't get handed out on a silver platter and the material is not spoon fed. The profs don't give a pooh pooh about you. At least be thankful they don't, 'cause when they do, that's when the said abuse begins. Their just having their fun. I would too if I had to put with some of the nonsense I've seen foreign students dish out. They're enrolled in a school in a different country, a different culture, a different view, and they stride in like their the bomb and make all sorts of demands. Well, guess what, that pooh pooh don't fly over there. And I hope a lot of it never does. You go over there, you take your chances. That's another reason why we keep repeating, go over there and check it out before you enroll! And when you listen to students over there, be aware, they lie too. They don't want to bad-mouth their school for fear that it will make them look stupid, but even more, they fear it may affect their chances of getting residency later on. After all, if word got out that at this school... pooh pooh happens... well. Oh by the way, don' think this problem is endemic to "off-shore" schools only. You'd be surprised how much cr*p I heard during my residency interviews. People lie. It's simple psychology.

In short, you go "off-shore", you take charge of your own education and your personal discipline. Deal with it.

And now, to get my lawschool applications together... :rolleyes:
Great post, saves me the trouble.

To those of you thinking of going abroad, please do yourselves a huge favor and visit the schools in question and complete due diligence. I've seen many premeds utterly disappointed once they've arrived, because they haven't a clue what awaits them. Don't listen to agency promises, because they do not have your best interests at heart. Good luck.

[Miklos]

Like Miklos said sgu is the institution that offers an education for a price and then so does european schools; so my arguement is why not goto to a cheaper place and get the same education. In this way you have less to pay back later after you are married and have few kids.

Your arguments are pretty inchoate, but I'll respond to this point one last time (as I'm starting to feel that I'm wasting my time).

Apart from what KluverB wrote, here's a couple points against going to European schools (from a European grad, no less):
Success rate. SGU's has the undisputed best record for off-shore schools that cater to North Americans. Period. Take a long look at their residency placements. They beat everyone else. European schools by contrast have at best a very mixed record. Heck, they don't even publish their residency lists, so you have nothing to compare it to.
Transfers to US schools. These happen rarely, but once again, SGU beats all the others.
State approvals. If you play your clinicals right, a degree from SGU is good in all 50 states. How many European English programs can say the same? There are only a handful of other Carib schools that can do this for you.
Networking. Thanks to over 3,000 grads there's plenty of opportunity for students and grads to network. Not the case at any English program in Europe.
Small, but not insignificant things like student support services. Need a Medical Student Performance Evaluation for your residency application? Good luck getting it from an English program in Europe. Not a problem at places like SGU.Yes, it will cost you a pretty penny on an island in the Carib.

On a personal note, I do not regret coming to Hungary. But, after knowing what I know now, I might have changed my decision to blow off SGU on financial grounds alone.

Good luck to you.

[KluverB]

...To those of you thinking of going abroad, please do yourselves a huge favor and visit the schools in question and complete due diligence. I've seen many premeds utterly disappointed once they've arrived, because they haven't a clue what awaits them. Don't listen to agency promises, because they do not have your best interests at heart. Good luck...

Just to add to this and what I mentioned before. By due diligence we mean go attend some classes, don't just listen to what others have to SAY, follow some students around as they DO their clinicals, take a day or two, see how good/bad the english instruction is, how non-american the clinicals are. If it still appeals, go for it. It appealed to me. I do not for a sec regret my decision of going to Poland, and knowing what I know now I wouldn't change anything.

[Zut Alors!]

Edited due to TOS and just being civil.

[catherine1984]

multiple accounts to agree with self

[Zut Alors!]

Edited: my pwning skills are too much for the TOS.

[KluverB]

:catfight:

Oh this is gonna be great! I'm already making pop-corn.

[Arun11]

mutliple accounts/violation of tos.

[Zut Alors!]

I refuse to do battle with the unarmed. Edited: TOS

[catherine1984]

multiple violations of tos/multiple accounts.

[Cal454]

Very blunt, but well put!

[KluverB]

Thank you Arun for being so sweet.And just because you were so sweet i would love to send you my pics of my recent trip to grand canyon. ;) Look for my private email....

Oh for the love of Science, where are MY happy pills?

[DeepRoller]

God forbid anyone have an opinion, right?

Michael

[Zut Alors!]

Edited for TOS

[Arun11]

multiple violations of tos/multiple accounts to agree with "self"

[Zut Alors!]

Edited for TOS

[Karen Huntington]

multiple accounts. violation of tos in more ways that one.

[Zut Alors!]

Edited for TOS

[Karen Huntington]

Are you out of your mind? I never called Catherine any names; she called me a twit, same as you are doing.

Plus, you obviously lack an important element that a physician should have; compassion. Someone should beat the crap out of me? Wow... the mentality, the maturity, I don't know which is worse. Whatever, you're hopeless...
Sorry Arun I am usually not like this! don't want to scare you please write me back.

[stephew]

this thread is being locked and review. threats are taken VERY seriously and will be looked into.

[stephew]

this thread has been opened for users who have been pm'd to edit. ANY further violations of tos may lead to immediate warning or banning. no exceptions. no courtesy pm's first. you have agreed to these terms when you signed up.

[KluverB]

:jerry:Oh, dang it! I missed all the fun?
And it was looking to be a great time. Better than Cats. Better than Ugly Betty, for that matter. All the intrigue, the passion, the lover's quarrels, the revenge, and... well... Jerry's kids were kind of insightful. Made me reconsider my career choice. Law school is looking better and better every day....

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/mistakes.jpg

Ok... I'm sure that will get taken down before long, anyways... to reiterate... "It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others."

[all4ui_smile]

You know what? It doesn't matter what I tell you about what I've learned or where I learned it.
I'll just keep it for myself from now on.
Good luck to all in the process.

well put i don't understand we give OUR advice, oppinions or knowledge and all some people do is critisize our knowledge about it.....it is fustrating that i rarelly like to post my "help" on here. i say to ALL (again) do your own research...i.e. call the schools and talk to REAL doctors...research articles the school has printed....maybe that can help you on the legistics of the school....in all everything can not be found and you must just take a leap....like someone once said on this forum "what is the worse that can happen, sure you may have to do clinicals in poland" but in my oppinion if you have the determination, strive and brains to be a doctor no matter where you go you will make it...and if you can't get thru it you seriously should find a new career. sorry if it sounds harsh. i wish everyone the best though in your dreams:D

warmest regards,
Ann