The Truth about DO Vers Caribbean

[stephew]

mereging with prior thread.

BTW any violations are getting dinged.

[stephew]

Main Reasons to go MD (My opinion)

1. D.O. is a pseudo-profession and should not be around. One is either a baseball player or is not. You can't be a baseball player, but call yourself a round-thingy-player.

Poor analogy. The reality is both exist and are in ractice in the same way. it may violate your sense of.. well i dont know what; order? maybe. But this is way off base

2. Don't want to waste time learning manipulation when it doesn't really do much to what I want to do in the future (Not manipulation).

ok. Fair enough. But you'll learn a lot of what you wont use in med school too.

3. Don't want to be labeled as a round-thingy-player (DO) for the rest of my professional life and have to explain what that is exactly (see 1).

I have no idea what that means. But if you mean you dont like DO behind your name, well i think that is the most truthful thing you've said here and informs every other point you've made.


4. Would rather learn real biochemistry and the hard core sciences. Don't need a separate exam, for round-thingy-players (DO) only.

That makes no sense. BTW do you think you'll be some biochem PhD after med school? Any Phd, heck any masters or guy with a BA in "hard sci" will laught at the idea that any MD has a hard sci education. Indeed DO ed is not all the different over all. Chiropractors learn more anatomy. Are they more hard sci than an MD? Again, you are fitting reality into your theoretical construct of "DO= Bad". FOr someone professing to be into hard sci, that's pretty bad rationalization.

5. Don't need to run around and try and get my own rotation set up. Don't need to be limited osteopathic rotations. They are the baby ones... less work.. less exposure... = less training and less of a doctor.

News for you. Yes you do as an IMG. At very least your clinicals if not your cores in some schools.. There is comparable clinical training for DOs. Now youre straying from hard core scie...erm facts

6. for the amount of tuition they are charging, might as well go and do the real thing. MD and not the thing that is like an MD, but is not an MD. (nothing to do with professional practice).

You get the same thing in the end. And can be cheaper than offshore.

7. Don't need to play the guilt card/ victimized because of the past. MDs preventing DOs practicing with them.. etc... Of course they did, and in some cases they should. I shadowed a few DOs and I was surprised to see the subtle differences between MDs and DOs.

Um, ok.

8. Don't want to be labeled as a primary care physician... that is what 99.999999% of them are.

...like the majority of IMGs. BUt hey what if you go to harvard and do IM? what does that make you..? yessss a primary care physician.

These and many more explanations are my opinions and observations. I others can have their own.

They are in fact as poorly based as any arguments on this topic ive seen, worse in fact that most of the bad ones DOs have against IMGs. ROk is pretty much correct in her assessment.

[stephew]

Definitely go for an Osteopathic program over any foreign school, after a US MD it is the next most viable option.

and yet again, not true. Some IMG schools are better than some DO schools. Broad statements like the above are beneath well informed professionals.

[stephew]

Whatever, I know DOs are getting a lot more recognition and the attitude towards IMGs is becoming more malignant. Even the argument that an MD will allow you to practice abroad is moot because it is very difficult for physicians to cross borders. Unlike Nursing, training for MDs varies considerably across countries.

um ok. .....

[teratos]

Man, do a lot of you guys have it wrong. There are plenty of specialists who are IMG's and caribbean grads. In fact, of the people i keep in touch with from med school, and the people I did residency with who are Caribbean grads, I am a minority in that I chose primary care. My friends are in areas like surgery, anesthesia, rheum, critical care. All are doing great. The opinions people have about practice are often way off.

I love how people talk about primary care like we are lepers. In the near future the salaries of PCPs will be going up, and that of specialists will be going down. Why? Supply and demand. There are few people going into primary care. This year Medicare gave me a 10% raise....they increased the reimbursement for my most commonly used codes. Many specialists saw a similar decrease. Most insurance companies base their reimbursements on what Medicare pays. Primary care may not be that bad after all.....

[stephew]

primary care!! Unclean!! Unclean!!

[GeorgeMD2B]

It is a lot harder as an IMG to specialize than for DOs. Emergency Medicine for example is very difficult to match into as an IMG but most DOs have few problems accomplishing this.

[CANeh]

They are in fact as poorly based as any arguments on this topic ive seen, worse in fact that most of the bad ones DOs have against IMGs. ROk is pretty much correct in her assessment.

Wow Steph you gave me an infraction for what I posted.. Flaming Rok, wow! That is interesting.

If you go back in a few days and read my post... and just be logical and scientific about some of the things I said, you may change your mind. Or again you may not. I did not state I was an expert, I said it was my opinion. I see that some of the points were off... but again, I am not an expert.

Also there are a couple of those people on SDN who left DO schools to go to SGU (or other schools). It would be interesting to get their opinion.

[GeorgeMD2B]

I knew someone from SGU who left that school and went to the University of Sydney.
Speaking of Australia, I actually met a DO who works as an ER physician in Sydney. There are DOs being recognized in Britain and other industrialized countries.

[Scott1981]

I knew someone from SGU who left that school and went to the University of Sydney.
Speaking of Australia, I actually met a DO who works as an ER physician

there are quite a few countries that recognize DO's. http://www.valuemd.com/relaxing-lounge/29288-list-countries-where-us-trained-osteopaths-recognized.html

[stephew]

It is a lot harder as an IMG to specialize than for DOs. Emergency Medicine for example is very difficult to match into as an IMG but most DOs have few problems accomplishing this.
and yet incorrect again. of course which img and DO schools youre comparing does matter. but i know you dislike having to look at complex info. but hey keep asserting it. it might make it true if you do it enough.

[stephew]

Also there are a couple of those people on SDN who left DO schools to go to SGU (or other schools). It would be interesting to get their opinion.
there is someone who posted here but i dont know what school he went to.

[wizard17]

there is someone who posted here but i dont know what school he went to.

i have already given my opinion in this thread.

[stephew]

i have already given my opinion in this thread.

well thank you for that addition.

[Runzhouse]

Can we all just agree on this fact (generally speaking here):

It is easier for someone from the US to stay in US (MD or DO) if they want to eventually practice there...it's that simple in my book...any other way of trying to turn the argument one way or the other is just an attempt to persuade away from this simple fact...

(again, this is in general...)


and 99% primary care...lol...some DO schools graduate 60% specialists...

[ellinopedo182]

WOW. I was considering Carib MD as a last resort if I couldnt get into a DO program. I think the DO stigma isnt as bad as a foreign MD. I may be wrong, but i'd rather have a DO doctor than a foreign MD graduate. Not always true, but if i would have to chose between the two doctors without knowing anything about them before hand other than where they went to school, i would chose the DO.

BTW, DO's can take both the USMLEs and COMLEX and place residency in both MD and DO spots. As far as education, there really isnt anything different between the two, except that the DO gets OMM training on top of their basic medical education.

If i did have to chose a Carib medical school to attend, it would definately be SGU, AUC, or ROSS. Not a big fan of SABA because of how lonely the island must be.

Anyways, if i do get accepted to a DO school, which crossing my fingers i get the acceptance letter sometime this week, ill give you guys a write up on what it really is like to be a DO medical student.

[Runzhouse]

WOW. I was considering Carib MD as a last resort if I couldnt get into a DO program. I think the DO stigma isnt as bad as a foreign MD. I may be wrong, but i'd rather have a DO doctor than a foreign MD graduate. Not always true, but if i would have to chose between the two doctors without knowing anything about them before hand other than where they went to school, i would chose the DO.

BTW, DO's can take both the USMLEs and COMLEX and place residency in both MD and DO spots. As far as education, there really isnt anything different between the two, except that the DO gets OMM training on top of their basic medical education.

If i did have to chose a Carib medical school to attend, it would definately be SGU, AUC, or ROSS. Not a big fan of SABA because of how lonely the island must be.

Anyways, if i do get accepted to a DO school, which crossing my fingers i get the acceptance letter sometime this week, ill give you guys a write up on what it really is like to be a DO medical student.

It will be like an MD medical student except you get to touch your classmates...so on your first day of class, look and around, and you will either like OMM or you will hate it...;)...lol

[ellinopedo182]

It will be like an MD medical student except you get to touch your classmates...so on your first day of class, look and around, and you will either like OMM or you will hate it...;)...lol

they told us that we will be spending a lot of time without our shirts on during OMM... well that means i gotta find a cute girl for my partner... and gotta somehow hide my large tattoo. lol.

[Scott1981]

the OMM lab is definetely awkward and ive got stories from classmates :lol:. they had a locker room outside the lab for you to change. the girls usually wore sports bras. there was a list outside the door each week with the partner pairups. it would be randomized and you get a new partner each week. sometimes it was male-male, male-female, or female-female. for the most part, it looked like they tried to have the most male-female pairups. so ellinopedo, its out of your control who you pairup with each week :lol:.

[Runzhouse]

lol...I've heard from my friends that OMM is only really uncomfortable the first few times, but once it gets going it just becomes normal...sorta like the first few days in the cadaver lab, and then by the end of the semester, its nothing...I will admit though that in general, two years of OMM does make the DO's more comfortable with touching their patients, whether it is for an actual treatment or not. I know so many MD's who would go nowhere near their patients...lol.

[GeorgeMD2B]

Generally, 99 percent of people who attend foreign medical schools do so because they could not get into a US program. If you really can get into a DO school, in my experience it is better than going overseas these days. A DO is pretty much equal to an MD. Even many Residency PDs I have spoken to will attest to this view. One PD told me that he has DO's who have scored 75's on the USMLE, while he won't consider any IMG with less than a 95.

[Scott1981]

Generally, 99 percent of people who attend foreign medical schools do so because they could not get into a US program. If you really can get into a DO school, in my experience it is better than going overseas these days. A DO is pretty much equal to an MD. Even many Residency PDs I have spoken to will attest to this view. One PD told me that he has DO's who have scored 75's on the USMLE, while he won't consider any IMG with less than a 95.

wow, i slipped through the cracks with my 14 interviews thus far based solely on my step 1 score (under a 95 george). i just received my step 2 score today (still under a 95 george) and just received two more interviews from competitive university programs with many fellowships. i guess im winning the lottery here george..... right? :roll:

it seems you keep in close contact with many friends in caribbean schools, united states md schools, DO schools.... and even drop a line out to your many program director friends to keep up to date...... all this while studying medicine down under in australia. man, you seem very connected. :bored:

[stephew]

Generally, 99 percent of people who attend foreign medical schools do so because they could not get into a US program. If you really can get into a DO school, in my experience it is better than going overseas these days. A DO is pretty much equal to an MD. Even many Residency PDs I have spoken to will attest to this view. One PD told me that he has DO's who have scored 75's on the USMLE, while he won't consider any IMG with less than a 95.

id say youre grasping in order to win your point.

[Anthony Thomasson]

Just saw this thread and thought it was pretty silly (no offense to anyone). If you want a residency in the U.S. and to be licensed here afterwards, and have been accepted to a DO school, um, how sould I say this.....GO! GO! GO QUICKLY BEFORE SOMEONE TAKES YOUR SPOT! GO ALREADY!

If you're in DO you're part of the system, part of the mainstream. If you're FMG, and especially "offshore" FMG - your potential number of residency programs and jobs available afterwards are significantly reduced, in some cases to ZERO, yup...zero. Some programs will not take FMG's. Period. AND, for a wake me up, go to some of the medical recruitment sites and see how many ads say NO FMG's. Sad but true. Just a reality. I'm an FMG. I didn't explore the DO option. I wasn't to clever...If you have the chance, do the DO route :)

Best of luck and don't give up!

[Scott1981]

Just saw this thread and thought it was pretty silly (no offense to anyone). If you want a residency in the U.S. and to be licensed here afterwards, and have been accepted to a DO school, um, how sould I say this.....GO! GO! GO QUICKLY BEFORE SOMEONE TAKES YOUR SPOT! GO ALREADY!

If you're in DO you're part of the system, part of the mainstream. If you're FMG, and especially "offshore" FMG - your potential number of residency programs and jobs available afterwards are significantly reduced, in some cases to ZERO, yup...zero. Some programs will not take FMG's. Period. AND, for a wake me up, go to some of the medical recruitment sites and see how many ads say NO FMG's. Sad but true. Just a reality. I'm an FMG. I didn't explore the DO option. I wasn't to clever...If you have the chance, do the DO route :)

Best of luck and don't give up!

i hope you read the full 28 pages of this thread to see both sides of the story before you make a quick blanket statement like you just did.

[drjohnwebb]

[quote=Anthony Thomasson;684644]Just saw this thread and thought it was pretty silly (no offense to anyone). If you want a residency in the U.S. and to be licensed here afterwards, and have been accepted to a DO school, um, how sould I say this.....GO! GO! GO QUICKLY BEFORE SOMEONE TAKES YOUR SPOT! GO ALREADY!

If you're in DO you're part of the system, part of the mainstream. If you're FMG, and especially "offshore" FMG - your potential number of residency programs and jobs available afterwards are significantly reduced, in some cases to ZERO, yup...zero. Some programs will not take FMG's. Period. AND, for a wake me up, go to some of the medical recruitment sites and see how many ads say NO FMG's. Sad but true. Just a reality. I'm an FMG. I didn't explore the DO option. I wasn't to clever...If you have the chance, do the DO route :)

Is the problem being a FMG or the school that YOU went to?
I know many DOs that have a harder time getting a residency than most Carib grads.. and they will always have DO behind their name. I don't care what ANYONE says.. I have been in healthcare for 10 years.. it DOES matter. If you aren't a MD, people think less of you.

[Runzhouse]

[quote=Anthony Thomasson;684644]Just saw this thread and thought it was pretty silly (no offense to anyone). If you want a residency in the U.S. and to be licensed here afterwards, and have been accepted to a DO school, um, how sould I say this.....GO! GO! GO QUICKLY BEFORE SOMEONE TAKES YOUR SPOT! GO ALREADY!

If you're in DO you're part of the system, part of the mainstream. If you're FMG, and especially "offshore" FMG - your potential number of residency programs and jobs available afterwards are significantly reduced, in some cases to ZERO, yup...zero. Some programs will not take FMG's. Period. AND, for a wake me up, go to some of the medical recruitment sites and see how many ads say NO FMG's. Sad but true. Just a reality. I'm an FMG. I didn't explore the DO option. I wasn't to clever...If you have the chance, do the DO route :)

Is the problem being a FMG or the school that YOU went to?
I know many DOs that have a harder time getting a residency than most Carib grads.. and they will always have DO behind their name. I don't care what ANYONE says.. I have been in healthcare for 10 years.. it DOES matter. If you aren't a MD, people think less of you.

Truly the crux of the issue here (and a bit ironic, coming from a carribbean student about being thought less of)...but if that statement bothers you and if a group of nurses huddled in a corner whispering about you bothers you, then by all means go to the Carribbean (which doesnt necesarrily mean they wont anyway)...I am hoping that by this point in our education, we are all secure enough to not let things like that even bother you...what matters is you and you alone, and you let your work speak for itself...not where you come from or initials behind your name...and from what I have seen, initials behind your name does not mean as much as actual work ethic and personality traits as a doctor....take that as you may.

[Zut Alors!]

There's few things more pathetic in the medical community than a Caribbean MD propagating the "DOs are looked at as lower than MDs," argument. That's a crock [edited for tos' Unless you paint the letters DO on your back, they are very small and on a badge. Patients don't give in the hospital, because they really don't have a choice. In private practice, chances are you'll be working in a group setting; don't let your ego get to you, your name won't be 10 feet high in lights. It will probably say CARDIOLOGY (for example) in all caps, as to draw attention. You and your partners will be insignificantly thrown in underneath.

In case you haven't noticed, there is a physician shortage in the United States. The whole "people would rather go to an MD," is a ridiculous argument. Please, I defy you to come up with some data that shows DOs aren't filling their appointment books. I'm sure any physician would love a day off now and then, MD or DO.

Plus, going the DO route statistically gives you a better chance at getting a very competitive residency. How many Caribbean grads score a derm, ophtho, plastics, ENT, or uro residency each year? Maybe 1 or 2 derms, a few opthos, 0 plastics, 1 or 2 ENT, and 1 uro? That's out of hundreds and hundreds of grads. Meanwhile, according to the AOA-Dept. of Education:

# of DOs in ACGME Residencies as of 2005
Derm - 17
Ophtho - 11
Plastics - 3
ENT - 11
Uro - 14

Nothing overly spectacular, right? Well, as you know, DOs can apply to osteopathic residencies, which are 100% filled with DOs only. Obviously, the more programs you can apply to, the better your chance is at matching. There are:

20 derm programs
12 ophtho programs
19 ENT programs
7 uro programs

(source:Opportunities.osteopathic.org (http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/index.htm))

To me, I could care less about the letters after my name. I'm more concerned with the use of the two letters before my name: Dr. If I can legally put those two letters before my name, practice in every state in the US, and still have a statistically better chance at landing an uber-competitive residency, then I am good.

Are there still residencies that will be very biased against DOs? Absolutely. But please, please, please don't so naive and think that these places aren't the same ones that will also throw a Caribbean grads application in the shredder. No PD is going to be impressed by the letters MD instead of DO; he/she still knows you couldn't get into a US medical school. At worst, a DO = Caribbean MD. At best, a DO > Caribbean MD, in the eyes of PDs. I have never met/read/heard of a director who said they'd prefer a Caribbean grad over a DO.

With that said, I respect all doctors, regardless of their school. I don't judge people based on their degree, rather on their work. I don't care if you went to JHU, PCOM, or SGU. If you have the talent and a good head on your shoulders, you deserve to be where you are. The lines between a DO and an MD is fading, and fading quick.

[drjohnwebb]

OK... well I will just tell you, in most places you go, when patients know you are a DO (if they even know what that is), they WILL think a little less of you. I will agree, they will do the same if they know you are a Carib medical school grad. However.. when they see MD, they know what that is and they don't question it.. when they say DO.. they know something is up and ask questions.

Go to DO school.. be happy.. that is your choice. DO= MD, that couldn't actually get into medical school. Why would anyone choose DO over MD?? Because they couldn't get into medical school. If medical schools would lower admission standards and enroll more students, NO ONE would go to a DO school.

Same with Carib med schools. But don't act like you WANT to be a DO... DO means you had to go to plan B, because you didn't have what it takes to get into med school.

[Zut Alors!]

Yes, and I already addressed that point in my post. A DO couldn't get into a US medical school (mostly), and the same for a Caribbean grad. However, I've never heard of anyone choosing the Caribbean over a US MD school; I have, however, heard of someone choosing DO over US MD.

For example, University of Oklahoma (MD) vs. Oklahoma State University (DO). I've met more than one person who has chosen OSU over OU. Facilities are more impressive, and the reputation OSU grads have is very strong in the surrounding areas. In fact, the average GPA and MCAT scores of OSU matriculants at least one year was higher than that of OU. So, I don't agree with you that all DOs are ones that failed to get into MD schools in the states. I doubt you can say the same for those who get into US MD schools and Caribbean schools that pick Caribbean schools.

Plus, a DO can perform osteopathic manipulative medicine, which is billable. Therefore, if you are going into primary care, you can potentially make a lot of money. Some docs open up OMM cash only practices in LA and NYC and have 4 month waitlists.

I'm not a DO, so I have no bias for or against the degree. I just think it's wholly unprofessional and naive to think the DO degree will hold you back in any way. It takes 15 seconds to explain to a patient waht your degree is. After that, how you treat them is what they will remember and will be their determining factor as to whether or not they will come back to see you again.

[stephew]

it is true a few chose DO over allopathic due to philiosophy and in some areas of the country due to locale. That however is NOT a reason to say that its necessarily better to do DO over any img school. its certainly true about some, but vice versa- its better in terms of opportunities historically to come from some offshore schools rather than DO school. You may not like it, but its not as simple as one is better than another.

as for will the DO thing hold you back- some MDs do have a bias and that includes program directors. Some also have a bias against IMG. to make any sweeping statement that they shouldnt have a bias ergo thus don't is naive. But frankly most of these passionate arguments trust other the naivety of those listening in. And some patients wont go to a DO. Ignorent? Yes. Reality? Yes. It tends to be somewhat regional. Same thing for IMGs though less often i think simply because that you are an IMG is less apparent than that you are a DO (img's hold the same MD degree as US allos). silly? yes. Reality. Yes.

[Zut Alors!]

it is true a few chose DO over allopathic due to philiosophy and in some areas of the country due to locale. That however is NOT a reason to say that its necessarily better to do DO over any img school. its certainly true about some, but vice versa- its better in terms of opportunities historically to come from some offshore schools rather than DO school. You may not like it, but its not as simple as one is better than another.

as for will the DO thing hold you back- some MDs do have a bias and that includes program directors. Some also have a bias against IMG. to make any sweeping statement that they shouldnt have a bias ergo thus don't is naive. But frankly most of these passionate arguments trust other the naivety of those listening in. And some patients wont go to a DO. Ignorent? Yes. Reality? Yes. It tends to be somewhat regional. Same thing for IMGs though less often i think simply because that you are an IMG is less apparent than that you are a DO (img's hold the same MD degree as US allos). silly? yes. Reality. Yes.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe it is reality, especially regarding PDs looking at DOs and IMGs. The same old-school-types that won't accept DOs are the same types that won't accept Caribbean MDs; to them, you are both failed US MDs.

Plus, I posted hard numbers dealing with DOs in specialties. If you check out the US News report, you'll see Des Moines University produces more specialists by percentage of their graduating class than Harvard. Obviously, they are not sufferring much from this bias against DOs. However, I can't think of any Caribbean school that produces more specialists than primary care doctors. Reality? Yes.

[drjohnwebb]

"Plus, a DO can perform osteopathic manipulative medicine, which is billable. Therefore, if you are going into primary care, you can potentially make a lot of money. Some docs open up OMM cash only practices in LA and NYC and have 4 month waitlists."

WHOA.... you must not realize that MD can do manipulation as well. If manipulation is the main reason to go DO, why not just go to Chiropractic school. Most DOs have gotten away from manipulation..

Also,.. OMM doesn't pay very well. It is easy, because you can see a higher volume of patients, but you don't go to DO or Med school to do manipulation. That would be stupid.

A DO is basically a chiropractor that can write scripts.

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe it is reality, especially regarding PDs looking at DOs and IMGs. The same old-school-types that won't accept DOs are the same types that won't accept Caribbean MDs; to them, you are both failed US MDs.

Plus, I posted hard numbers dealing with DOs in specialties. If you check out the US News report, you'll see Des Moines University produces more specialists by percentage of their graduating class than Harvard. Obviously, they are not sufferring much from this bias against DOs. However, I can't think of any Caribbean school that produces more specialists than primary care doctors. Reality? Yes.

So you are using percentage of specialists in a graduating class as a measure of what????

You think a Harvard educated Primary physician is the same as one from Des Moine??? I think you would be comparing apples to oranges if you did that.

[Shah_Patel_PT]

"Plus, a DO can perform osteopathic manipulative medicine, which is billable. Therefore, if you are going into primary care, you can potentially make a lot of money. Some docs open up OMM cash only practices in LA and NYC and have 4 month waitlists."

WHOA.... you must not realize that MD can do manipulation as well. If manipulation is the main reason to go DO, why not just go to Chiropractic school. Most DOs have gotten away from manipulation..

Also,.. OMM doesn't pay very well. It is easy, because you can see a higher volume of patients, but you don't go to DO or Med school to do manipulation. That would be stupid.

A DO is basically a chiropractor that can write scripts.

I never though about it that way.

[stephew]

A DO is basically a chiropractor that can write scripts.
not at all true.
that's just a zippy way to denegrate the field.

[drjohnwebb]

I was using his rationale. DOs are fine doctors. There use to be a difference in DOs and MDs, but not so much now. There may be a handful, and I mean ONLY a handful of people who would choose DO over MD in the US.

OK.. try this.. DOs are MDs that DO chiropractic manipulation.
Is that better?

[Runzhouse]

So you are using percentage of specialists in a graduating class as a measure of what????

You think a Harvard educated Primary physician is the same as one from Des Moine??? I think you would be comparing apples to oranges if you did that.

He is using it as a measure of all this supposed "discrimination" and this crazy notion that DO's only go into primary care...DMU is one school of many that graduate over 50% of their students into specialities, whether that be AOA or ACGME, but no matter what, a neurosurgeon is a neurosurgeon no matter which one they do...I am sorry to say, but the day that a Carribean school graduates a class that is 60% specialists is a day that most likely will never come...

And yes...if a harvard Primary care physician was in the same residency program as say a student from Des Moines University, then heck yeah I would say they are similarly educated. Harvard doesnt teach you something in the 4 years of med school that other schools dont cover...You become a more educated or less educated doctor based on your residency experience, not which med school you go to. I would trust a DMU PCP who went to a top rate residency program over a harvard grad who went to some rundown program.

This whole argument is pretty stupid in my book...it comes down to two simple things:

1.) It is without doubt much easier for residency to be a DO. You not only get your own, but at the least, ACGME programs will look at you equal to IMG's, if not above. Maybe with some very very small exception, which can easily be true for DO's over IMG's.

2.) If the first statement is not more important than say, letters after your name, or your self-insecuries, then go Carribbean. Anyone else who tries to argue this from a different point of view is lying to themselves. Period. Maybe you were once like that and after having some experience actually have changed perspectives, but you decided carribbean and thats where you are now...which is completely fine, there is no problem with that, but dont go on these forums and say mistruths to very impressionable pre-meds because you feel the need to build your own insecurities...At least I am confident enough in myself to be able to admit what I truly experience and feel.

It looks quite pathetic and screams of insecurity when one starts degrading the other...we all are educated enough to realize that both paths lead to being very well-paid doctors (no practicing carribbean MD is hurting for patients or are on the strees begging for food, and no DO practicing physician is in that situation as well)...but to try and bring the other down tells me you are looking for ways to try and build yourself up...

Sorry shah, this wasnt directed specifically at you, but more in general about all these MD vs. DO debates....it really is a waste of energy to argue one point over the other...worry about where you are now, and support each other when that time comes...its that simple

[Zut Alors!]

Runzhouse explained it perfectly. Obviously there is not much of a stigma if DMU can produce more specialists than Harvard. KCUMB as well. NYCOM and PCOM also churn out 50% specialists.

[drjohnwebb]

You are right.. because EVERYONE in medical school wants to be a specialist...
The school doesn't decide the specialty, the student does. I am sure that if EVERYONE at Harvard wanted a specialty, they would get it 99% of the time over a DO, unless the program is run by a DO.

Like I said.. go to DO school.... look me up in a few years and we will see how we both did. That is the way to settle this..

[Runzhouse]

You are right.. because EVERYONE in medical school wants to be a specialist...
The school doesn't decide the specialty, the student does. I am sure that if EVERYONE at Harvard wanted a specialty, they would get it 99% of the time over a DO, unless the program is run by a DO.

Like I said.. go to DO school.... look me up in a few years and we will see how we both did. That is the way to settle this..

Settle what?...nobody is in competition with each other...Go with your own decisions and go from there...there is no need to competitive or degrade each other...this is laughable and screams of insecurity...

And although a school doesnt decide a speciality it can certaintly limit it. To me, not knowing what I really want to do in the end, I would feel more comfortable going to a school that can produce 60% specialists, knowing that if I work my tail off during med school, I can still get into any speciality I want. You can say the same is true in the Carribbean, but it doesnt hold as much of a promise in end....(plz dont try to argue this...) If your heck bent on family practice or Internal Medicine, then Carribbean is going to be fine for you, but for those that dont know, DO schools just add a little bit more security...

[wizard17]

Settle what?...nobody is in competition with each other...Go with your own decisions and go from there...there is no need to competitive or degrade each other...this is laughable and screams of insecurity...

And although a school doesnt decide a speciality it can certaintly limit it. To me, not knowing what I really want to do in the end, I would feel more comfortable going to a school that can produce 60% specialists, knowing that if I work my tail off during med school, I can still get into any speciality I want. You can say the same is true in the Carribbean, but it doesnt hold as much of a promise in end....(plz dont try to argue this...) If your heck bent on family practice or Internal Medicine, then Carribbean is going to be fine for you, but for those that dont know, DO schools just add a little bit more security...

There are actually residency hospitals that are federally funded, operated by MDs, and will not allow DOs. They are slowly disappearing, but there are still many around. Do not equate DO to USMD. This is not something that will be real for a number of years if ever. You have to change public perception. I have intimate experience in the DO world, there is still a lot of bias.

Yes there are a few DOs who made in to more competitive MD specialties, numbering under 20 individuals, compare this with the number of IMGMDs and it no longer looks substantiative. Then you will try to factor in DO-only residencies, but i say to you, these, while not 100% true, are largely considered to be "lesser" programs than their MD counterparts. I mentioned this earlier in this thread. I provided the example of NS - MD residencies - which are essentially the most competitive to get, and have no DOs in these 7 year programs. DOs have the opportunity to go to a DO-only NS residency 6 year program. DO programs are one less year because they do not perform the extra mandatory research year that MD residencies have, and thus adding to the continual perception of DOs being less than MDs in the medical world.

This extra year missing is a policy of the DO world and could easily be changed by them, however they have yet to do this. Another policy of the DO world that promotes the idea that DOs are less than MDs in the medical community is a number of states have required DOs to take an extra internship year for 3 year specialties. This is not focused on doing better on the actual specialty they have chosen, rather is is a basic requirement and filled with OMM sessions. These states that require it are unique among all other states, and it is not the public law that has required it, but rather the osteopathic board has personally stepped in, in those states only, and required it. This is a policy of the DO world that perpetuates DOs not being equal to MDs and in public perception, largely being less.

To promote a stereotype that a DO doctor is not as qualified as an MD is the Osteopathic Board's policies, not the MD board. The AMA has actually been promoting media and legislation and residency integration with DOs to promote an equal-ness to them, yet in all cases the DO world makes every effort to separate themselves from MDs.

The problem with DOs is not the person, the education, or the practice, rather it is wholly the DO Licensing Board where all the blame should be placed. As it is, because of them, and them alone, the DO title is in fact a lesser title in public and academic perception.

[Runzhouse]

There are actually residency hospitals that are federally funded, operated by MDs, and will not allow DOs. They are slowly disappearing, but there are still many around. Do not equate DO to USMD. This is not something that will be real for a number of years if ever. You have to change public perception. I have intimate experience in the DO world, there is still a lot of bias.

Yes there are a few DOs who made in to more competitive MD specialties, numbering under 20 individuals, compare this with the number of IMGMDs and it no longer looks substantiative. Then you will try to factor in DO-only residencies, but i say to you, these, while not 100% true, are largely considered to be "lesser" programs than their MD counterparts. I mentioned this earlier in this thread. I provided the example of NS - MD residencies - which are essentially the most competitive to get, and have no DOs in these 7 year programs. DOs have the opportunity to go to a DO-only NS residency 6 year program. DO programs are one less year because they do not perform the extra mandatory research year that MD residencies have, and thus adding to the continual perception of DOs being less than MDs in the medical world.

This extra year missing is a policy of the DO world and could easily be changed by them, however they have yet to do this. Another policy of the DO world that promotes the idea that DOs are less than MDs in the medical community is a number of states have required DOs to take an extra internship year for 3 year specialties. This is not focused on doing better on the actual specialty they have chosen, rather is is a basic requirement and filled with OMM sessions. These states that require it are unique among all other states, and it is not the public law that has required it, but rather the osteopathic board has personally stepped in, in those states only, and required it. This is a policy of the DO world that perpetuates DOs not being equal to MDs and in public perception, largely being less.

To promote a stereotype that a DO doctor is not as qualified as an MD is the Osteopathic Board's policies, not the MD board. The AMA has actually been promoting media and legislation and residency integration with DOs to promote an equal-ness to them, yet in all cases the DO world makes every effort to separate themselves from MDs.

The problem with DOs is not the person, the education, or the practice, rather it is wholly the DO Licensing Board where all the blame should be placed. As it is, because of them, and them alone, the DO title is in fact a lesser title in public and academic perception.

I am not going to argue with you on all your other statements because I am not a DO and I will let any DO's that might randomly enter this site to argue your points....But to say that a federally funded hospital will not accept DO's (who are for all intents and purposes equal under federal law), and at the same time will be welcoming to any MD, even from foreign schools is quite laughable...show me some proof of this (a mission statement or something similar) and I will show it to a DO and a lawsuit will be filled within minutes....If anything, a federally funded hospital has more of a right to deny IMG's from working there than any US graduated Physician

And again a US DO= US MD for all intents and purposes under federal law...which in the end is all that matters...NO DO or MD is hurting for patients or are begging on the streets. This is all that matters...what about that can people not understand.

And again...I find it laughable that students from carribbean schools continue to make the argument of DO's being thought lesser of by the medical community quite a bit ironic...if you can somehow find another mode of argument that will make a lot more sense, I might be more willing to listen.

[stephew]

And again...I find it laughable that students from carribbean schools continue to make the argument of DO's being thought lesser of by the medical community quite a bit ironic...if you can somehow find another mode of argument that will make a lot more sense, I might be more willing to listen.
its only ironic if they dont see imgs are viewed the same way. but for better or worse its true. some people look down on do's, no matter how much laughing you do. its not necessarily right, but it is what it is.

[Anthony Thomasson]

Two of the problems with this thread are ego and insecurity. If someone say's DO is better, more accepted, more respectable, may mean more opportunities etc. and the reader went to St. Ives SOM on the island of Waku Waku or Glasnost U. SOM in eastern europe - then they (and y'all know who you are...) get defensive...

Disclaimers: Didn't read all 28 pages - too busy, but I don't feel that that invalidates my opinion.

There is no "problem" being an FMG. AND I'm OK with my school (thank you) and could recommend it with a clear conscience.

But if I'm advising someone else though on this topic, regardless of the fact that I'm an FMG, I need to be honest and impartial and to that end I believe it's far more preferable on all levels to consider the DO opportunity first.

Yes I have made a generalization in my previous statement, and while one may find an advantage in a peculiar situation when comparing 2 schools, in general DO schools overwhelmingly win the contest for facilities, familiar and authentic academia, better curiculums, better 3rd and 4th year clerkship training, more residency, fellowship and job opportunities - and the list goes on...

Lastly, as a late thirty something with a bit of experience under my belt, I can honestly say, after working with many doctors in their 30's, 40's and 50's I have never heard a negative word spoken agains't DO's as a group. Sorry I can't say the same about FMG's...

If you're truly worried about "stigmas" avoid foreign medical schools alltogether and do the D.O. Oh and lets put our ego's aside and give the best information we can when someone asks a legitimate (did someone mention "silly" earlier?) question.

*No Carribbean grads were harmed during the formation of this post*

:)


[/quote] Is the problem being a FMG or the school that YOU went to?
I know many DOs that have a harder time getting a residency than most Carib grads.. and they will always have DO behind their name. I don't care what ANYONE says.. I have been in healthcare for 10 years.. it DOES matter. If you aren't a MD, people think less of you.[/quote]

[stephew]

well I have heard a PD say negative things about a certain DO school and that the kids from a certain offshore school were better and he prefered them for residency.. they both rotated through his program. And ive also heard views of both equally disparaged in my role on residency selection groups with neither being seen as the lesser of two evils. so if were reduced to anecdotal arguments, there you go.

[Anthony Thomasson]

Two of the problems with this thread are ego and insecurity. If someone say's DO is better, more accepted, more respectable, may mean more opportunities etc. and the reader went to St. Ives SOM on the island of Waku Waku or Glasnost U. SOM in eastern europe - then they (and y'all know who you are...) get defensive...

[Runzhouse]

Two of the problems with this thread are ego and insecurity. If someone say's DO is better, more accepted, more respectable, may mean more opportunities etc. and the reader went to St. Ives SOM on the island of Waku Waku or Glasnost U. SOM in eastern europe - then they (and y'all know who you are...) get defensive...

Disclaimers: Didn't read all 28 pages - too busy, but I don't feel that that invalidates my opinion.

There is no "problem" being an FMG. AND I'm OK with my school (thank you) and could recommend it with a clear conscience.

But if I'm advising someone else though on this topic, regardless of the fact that I'm an FMG, I need to be honest and impartial and to that end I believe it's far more preferable on all levels to consider the DO opportunity first.

Yes I have made a generalization in my previous statement, and while one may find an advantage in a peculiar situation when comparing 2 schools, in general DO schools overwhelmingly win the contest for facilities, familiar and authentic academia, better curiculums, better 3rd and 4th year clerkship training, more residency, fellowship and job opportunities - and the list goes on...

Lastly, as a late thirty something with a bit of experience under my belt, I can honestly say, after working with many doctors in their 30's, 40's and 50's I have never heard a negative word spoken agains't DO's.
Sorry I can't say the same about FMG's...

If you're truly worried about "stigmas" avoid foreign medical schools alltogether and do the D.O. Oh and lets put our ego's aside and give the best information we can when someone asks a legitimate (did someone mention "silly" earlier?) question.

*No Carribean grads were harmed during the formation of this post*

:)

quote]

Exactly what I have been trying to put across...put all our biases and insecurities aside and actual provide honest discussion and not mistruths. Thank you Thomasson...I doubt many DO's are losing sleep about not going to the Carribbean, and it should be the same way for us...Go with where you are, and make something of yourself instead of worrying about what everyone else thinks.

[wizard17]

I am not going to argue with you on all your other statements because I am not a DO and I will let any DO's that might randomly enter this site to argue your points....But to say that a federally funded hospital will not accept DO's (who are for all intents and purposes equal under federal law), and at the same time will be welcoming to any MD, even from foreign schools is quite laughable...show me some proof of this (a mission statement or something similar) and I will show it to a DO and a lawsuit will be filled within minutes....If anything, a federally funded hospital has more of a right to deny IMG's from working there than any US graduated Physician

And again a US DO= US MD for all intents and purposes under federal law...which in the end is all that matters...NO DO or MD is hurting for patients or are begging on the streets. This is all that matters...what about that can people not understand.

And again...I find it laughable that students from carribbean schools continue to make the argument of DO's being thought lesser of by the medical community quite a bit ironic...if you can somehow find another mode of argument that will make a lot more sense, I might be more willing to listen.

you should continue to laugh. it releases endorphines that have been shown to increase blood flow and promote health.

infomation i provided to you, that you laugh at, was given to me, while i was in DO school. so you can take it as fact from a primary source or you can continue to blow me off. i really dont care. laugh at the fact that many countries that were part of the british empire wont accept a DO degree because they already have their own DOs who are only like our USA chiropractors and have no other medical training. this is changing slowly, but largely this is the case.

i often mention NS residencies because that was in fact what i was interested in. there is even a DO school that has a NS residency program hospital associated with it - which is rare because less than 10 DO schools are associated with any hospital - meaning you will have to travel for clinicals. and like i said earlier, DO residencies tend to be somewhat substandard to MD residencies - not 100% true, but mostly it is true. not near as much money involved so not near as much research, didactics, and spectrum of cases.

did i mention that to be a voting member in the AOA, you must have completed an approved DO - ONLY residency, an MD residency is not good enough - thereby keeping voting members who tend to be heavily biased towards favoring the DO difference from MD philosophy. did i mention that there are not enough DO residency slots for all DO students so some will be "forced" to go to a MD residency?

man.. i could keep adding stuff all day... another thing was that it is DO policy to NOT pay hospitals for student to do their clinicals. first question is why is tuition still full price?? anyways, this means that some hospitals dont want to take on DO students just for the money it will cost the hospitals, so often, DOs wont be doing their clinical rotations at the better MD rotations and will therefore have it more difficult to get on at some of those residency programs because they didnt audition.

oh yea, DOs dont match like USMDs do. they are in a separate "class" of usa medical student. they have to apply outside of the regular match separate from USMDs - so this will skew the matching results as some DOs can just get out right accepted. however there is a problem because while it is argued that it is good that DOs have their OWN residency programs - they must apply to the DO programs long before the MD programs - AND then they must accept an offer or decline them all before it is even time to apply to an MD residency. so DOs risk not having ANY residency if they decline any DO spot. this totally skews any results and number crunching comparision you could ever conceive to do. oh and, many MD programs require DOs to have taken the USMLE - just for comparison purposes to USMD students. DO students often take the USMLE just days or weeks after the COMLEX, which are completely different tests and require completly different study habits.

are you still laughing at someone saying that DOs are not treated equal to USMDs ??

there are many opportunities not afforded to DO students (officially called OMS for osteopathic medical student as mandated by the AOA instead of MS for medical student) just for being in a DO school. One for me was a really cool summer break study camp between the ms1 and ms2 years up in michigan at a well known program that i would have qualified for, except i went to the wrong USA medical school - a DO school. only LCME schools were allowed. this means no DO students. i asked specifically. i ended up finding a doctor to do basic NS research under after searching for a long time but again, it was only at a DO residency and no MDs would even consider me.

however i should mention, the things i mentioned above were NOT my reason for having left the DO school. I do not find DOs to be inadequate as doctors and would have been just fine being one. i have presented my first hand experience, and my complete bias against the AOA (american osteopathic association) for purposely being backwards to the detriment of the "OMS" student body. while an MD can perform OMM legally, DOs actually will know how to do it and have returning patients - this is a very strong source of income since it is not payed through insurance companies and discounted normally. there are advantages to being a DO, but to say that there are no disadvantages and that USMDs are equal to DOs is to put on blinders over top of your rose colored glasses.

[drjohnwebb]

Either way, Carib MD or US DO, you are still looked at as a lesser doctor in the eyes of the US MDs and a lot of US citizens. We are in the same boat. There is not "truth" of Carib vs DO, except either way, you are NOT a US MD.

In the end.. we are all sacrificing a lot to help others. Who cares what initals you have behind your name. Do what YOU do, worry about yourself and be happy.

As Zig Zigler says... "people don't care how much you know, until they know...how much you care".

[Runzhouse]

you should continue to laugh. it releases endorphines that have been shown to increase blood flow and promote health.

infomation i provided to you, that you laugh at, was given to me, while i was in DO school. so you can take it as fact from a primary source or you can continue to blow me off. i really dont care. laugh at the fact that many countries that were part of the british empire wont accept a DO degree because they already have their own DOs who are only like our USA chiropractors and have no other medical training. this is changing slowly, but largely this is the case..

If you havent paid attention lately, DO international practice rights have increased around world...and even big boy Britain now accepts US trained DO's as physicians....

i often mention NS residencies because that was in fact what i was interested in. there is even a DO school that has a NS residency program hospital associated with it - which is rare because less than 10 DO schools are associated with any hospital - meaning you will have to travel for clinicals. and like i said earlier, DO residencies tend to be somewhat substandard to MD residencies - not 100% true, but mostly it is true. not near as much money involved so not near as much research, didactics, and spectrum of cases. .

More anecdotes...I guess it's good over 50% of DO's are in ACGME residencies then...

did i mention that to be a voting member in the AOA, you must have completed an approved DO - ONLY residency, an MD residency is not good enough - thereby keeping voting members who tend to be heavily biased towards favoring the DO difference from MD philosophy. did i mention that there are not enough DO residency slots for all DO students so some will be "forced" to go to a MD residency? .

Um...if I choose DO, then why the heck would I care about MD's....seems like you wanted to be MD the whole time and your time in a DO school "supposedly", was bad because of it...The problem is you want a merge, and its understanble why the AOA would be agaisnt something like that.

man.. i could keep adding stuff all day... another thing was that it is DO policy to NOT pay hospitals for student to do their clinicals. first question is why is tuition still full price?? anyways, this means that some hospitals dont want to take on DO students just for the money it will cost the hospitals, so often, DOs wont be doing their clinical rotations at the better MD rotations and will therefore have it more difficult to get on at some of those residency programs because they didnt audition. .

More ** alert...give me proof and I might believe you....

oh yea, DOs dont match like USMDs do. they are in a separate "class" of usa medical student. they have to apply outside of the regular match separate from USMDs - so this will skew the matching results as some DOs can just get out right accepted. however there is a problem because while it is argued that it is good that DOs have their OWN residency programs - they must apply to the DO programs long before the MD programs - AND then they must accept an offer or decline them all before it is even time to apply to an MD residency. so DOs risk not having ANY residency if they decline any DO spot. this totally skews any results and number crunching comparision you could ever conceive to do. oh and, many MD programs require DOs to have taken the USMLE - just for comparison purposes to USMD students. DO students often take the USMLE just days or weeks after the COMLEX, which are completely different tests and require completly different study habits. .

What the heck are you talking about???...it seems like you just read more mistruths on other threads...its a good thing to have two matches...if you want neurosurgery, and you apply DO and you dont get it, then you have another crack at with the MD match at a less competitive field...what are you smoking...and if you have ever picked up a USMLE study guide book...it states plainly the USMLE and COMLEX are very similar tests...you continue to go on these sites and spew out mistruths, which is quite annoying honestly and again screams of insecurities...

are you still laughing at someone saying that DOs are not treated equal to USMDs ??.

Yes, I am ..because the argument was never US MD vs DO, it was Carrib MD vs. DO....you are completely on another topic....try again. If you think carrib MD is treated equal to US MD than you are gravely mistaken.

there are many opportunities not afforded to DO students (officially called OMS for osteopathic medical student as mandated by the AOA instead of MS for medical student) just for being in a DO school. One for me was a really cool summer break study camp between the ms1 and ms2 years up in michigan at a well known program that i would have qualified for, except i went to the wrong USA medical school - a DO school. only LCME schools were allowed. this means no DO students. i asked specifically. i ended up finding a doctor to do basic NS research under after searching for a long time but again, it was only at a DO residency and no MDs would even consider me.

seems like your the problem and your blaming the degree....try that again coming from waka waka carribean med school, and see if they all of a sudden treat you with glowing eyes....:rolleyes:

however i should mention, the things i mentioned above were NOT my reason for having left the DO school. I do not find DOs to be inadequate as doctors and would have been just fine being one. i have presented my first hand experience, and my complete bias against the AOA (american osteopathic association) for purposely being backwards to the detriment of the "OMS" student body. while an MD can perform OMM legally, DOs actually will know how to do it and have returning patients - this is a very strong source of income since it is not payed through insurance companies and discounted normally. there are advantages to being a DO, but to say that there are no disadvantages and that USMDs are equal to DOs is to put on blinders over top of your rose colored glasses.

I think you might be write on this one...although I am pretty sure OMM is billable through insurance...

I hate to continue this but wizard's misinformation is quite baffling, especially for supposedly being at a DO school...

It's simple as this: and someone try to argue this

When I go to the DO forums, and ask why DO over Carribbean MD? They give nice answers like
-Wanted to be closer to family, Better facilities, better clinicals, better residency opportunity, better tuition help and scholarships, better matchlists, Want to learn OMM, US graduate=no legal issues..etc (all understandable reasons)

I come here and ask Why Carribbean over DO?
-And I get things like : because MD is better, nurses talk about DO's, DO degree is thought less of, because my parents are ignorant and are forcing me to be an MD, and my favorite "you will always have a DO behind your name, and me an MD"....:rolleyes:. The only legit reason that most ppl actually come up with, is the international practice rights, which is changing everyday...

To all the other insecure pre-meds out there these probably are good, albeit misinformed, reasons to go to the carribbean...to me it screams of insecurities....now tell me, if you were an educated rational man, which of those two choices looks more rational to pick?????

[stephew]

ok children remember, if you violate the terms of use you will get an infraction. if youre not sure what they are, reread them.

[drjohnwebb]

OMM is billable through almost every insurance company, including medicare. However, MDs can learn basic manipulation in a few weekend seminars and do it too.

If you want some reimbursement rates, I will be glad to give them to you. I had MD's and one DO work for me in the past, so I know what they get paid on almost every primary care procedure.

[kasha]

i have many friends from ross who will tell me as they go through wycoff, they ask the department heads, if u had to choose bt a IMG or DO, the department and head residents heads will say DO, bc they are considered US grads,,, However, i would have many debates with my friend on this one and i would tell him what about after residency when u go into private practice, if u look at all the medical groups in the bronx, westchester ect, u will see mostly MD's working together, a DO on occation.. SO were are all the DO's?????, allegially NY is a stong DO location, the truth is in the real world of private practice, were patients are older(baby boom generation) many do not know what a DO is, i worked for a med group and i have witnessed on plenty of occations patients asking what a DO was, considering there were over 100MD's vs about 1 DO, the DO was the odd man out on the directory and many patients after explaining would still say, i would prefer an MD, are they ignorant, maybe, but its still there decision

[Zut Alors!]

Well, there is no convincing the ignorant.

So, on a lighter note, let's agree that all of us, USMD, DO, or IMG, are all equally foolish for not going into dentistry. ;)

[drjohnwebb]

I agree...

[GeorgeMD2B]

Well, there is no convincing the ignorant.

So, on a lighter note, let's agree that all of us, USMD, DO, or IMG, are all equally foolish for not going into dentistry. ;)

Podiatry is another decent field as well with far less stress.

DOs are legit physicians.

[Scott1981]

Podiatry is another decent field as well with far less stress.

DOs are legit physicians.

nobody said that DOs werent legit :rolleyes:

[Runzhouse]

nobody said that DOs werent legit :rolleyes:

2 legit 2 quit...(sorry couldnt help it):D

[GeorgeMD2B]

International professional practice rights are a moot point, first of all you have to be able to speak the language wherever you go to practice medicine. There are also visa and migration issues. And outside of English speaking countries, doctors in most places make a paltry fraction of what they earn in the US, in fact only in the US does a doctor make that handsome salary capable of paying off 250K+ debt. Try working in Sweden making 40K a year and paying 80 percent income tax. Australian and British taxes will shock people too.

Oh there are DOs who work on medical service missions to developing countries.

If I thought about it in retrospect, I would have went to a DO school, even a friend of mine with a lower MCAT than I had and a similar GPA is in a US DO school.

[StriveToBeDr]

So if I get accepted to both AZCOM and SGU, should I go to AZCOM?
I am a Canadian, and if learning OMM and take COMPLEX in addition to USMLE could increase my chances of obtaining a more competitive residence as a DO, provided that I study equally hard, I would go to AZCOM. Anyone can provide me some insight?
In addition, can H1B or J1 waiver be provided to DO graduates?
thanks

[NYladoo]

read following post:
http://www.valuemd.com/st-georges-university-school-medicine/151456-us-do-vs-caribbean-md.html

and search for other similar posts. Based on past posts, I see no useful info coming out of this thread and see its future limited, as it will most likely be locked by the moderator.

[ecela7]

So if I get accepted to both AZCOM and SGU, should I go to AZCOM?
I am a Canadian, and if learning OMM and take COMPLEX in addition to USMLE could increase my chances of obtaining a more competitive residence as a DO, provided that I study equally hard, I would go to AZCOM. Anyone can provide me some insight?
In addition, can H1B or J1 waiver be provided to DO graduates?
thanksI'll respond before it gets locked (see earlier DO vs SGU threads).
Again, me personally, in at VCOM and NSUCOM, don't want to do surgety, chose SGU. If I had wanted competitive surgery I would have taken NSUCOM.

What I don't like about the DO, is that the upper brass seem to be hanging on to OMM for dear life. Went on the interviews, on the interview I had some OMM done to me. Felt great, does it work, I don't see it. I cannot pretend to be part of something I don't feel certain about.
Canadian or otherwise (I am a UK/US citizen), if I really wanted to avoid living in the Caribbean with all its hassles, and could tolerate doing ~200 hours of OMM, I would go to AZCOM.
I believe in the MD (omitting the OMM that is), so for me I had no choice. I feel that SGU is the real deal, Caribbean or not.