Concerning Clinical Placements from SVD

[rumorsweretrue]

I have a list in front of me of hospitals I could spend the next two years of my life in and I'm not given any information about them from the school. My choices are:

Coney Island Hospital, Brooklyn
Brooklyn Hospital, Brooklyn
Jamaica Hospital, Queens
St. Barnabas Health Care System, NJ
St. Joseph's Regional Medical Center, NJ

And I know nothing about them. I'm about to live in one of these hospitals for two years and I don't know anything that's important to me as a student. I'm not unique in this as several other students are hungry for information. SGU is not handling us well. This program has existed for 20+ years and there is no resource for me to have my questions answered. Worse, the school doesn't seem to care.

This is a snippet from a memo sent to all of the students in my class:

"I would advise you not to become overly concerned with clinical placements. Your future career in medicine - for example, your ability to obtain a residency program in the US - will depend on your academic record. The particular hospital in which you train or the order in which you do your rotations are insignificant when compared to your Step I and II USMLE scores and performance on the wards during your rotations." --Dr. W.

My classmates have been steaming over this for a while now and we've recently learned that Dr. W. is coming to the island to answer our questions. A few days after he arrives, our choices are due. And that's not good enough. As an administrator and not a student, I can't believe that he would have the type of information that I need. I want to know these hospitals as a student knows them. So I've decided to take an action that exposes me but gets the message out: I sent an email to every faculty member and student. I hoep this also gets some exposure on ValueMD. We'll see what happens.

"This letter is for Dr. W and everyone needs to say something.

My concern is not that I will or will not become a doctor based on where I spend the next two years. I know that my grades, boards and interviews will be the most important things in my residency match. My concern is finding a hospital that fits me, my goals, and my style of learning. If I get more 'hands on' experience at Coney but less in the way of mentoring, I want to know that. If I get to see more trauma at Jamaica Hospital, I want to know that. If Barnabas has state of the art facilities, if Brooklyn has great teachers, etc., I want to know that.

I do not want to be left in the dark because YOU have decided FOR ME that these questions are unimportant. That so many students are so upset about being left in the dark should make it very clear to you that this is important. These are the next two years of my life and if I find that I am unhappy at my hospital and that more information earlier would have helped me AVOID THAT, then there is reason to be concerned. If it is your job to shepherd us into New York and New Jersey, then you have chosen to lead us blindly. As any adult making an important decision, as much as I can have control over it (ranking my choices), it should be an INFORMED decision. Your flippant dismissal of these concerns is insulting.

I am not proud today of the way SGU is choosing to handle us. I am not proud that this school has not taken the opportunity to prepare a few paragraphs from students that have gone before us and are willing to share their insight. I am not proud that SGU is making my decision, which is important to me, more difficult.

I have no right to complain unless I have a solution. Given the resources of the university, it should take no more than 10 days to have a guide of sorts for each hospital available to us.

1) Send out an email to students in M3 and M4 asking them to write 500-1000 words about their hospital, the pros and cons, the things they wish they knew beforehand, etc. Not every student can write or has the time, but someone will.
2) REWARD THEM with a nice dinner if their submission is useful.
3) Select the ones that are the most balanced and well written.
4) Give them to us.

The problem seems easy to fix. Right now, I'm upset with my school for making this difficult and I'll let anyone who asks know it. If you treat your students well they will be your greatest cheerleaders and recruiters. If you treat us poorly, you'll find a group of students less proud of their school than they should be. All of this should have been done a long time ago, and I hope we're the last class to know it.

Sincerely,

*topher*

the rumors were true (http://rumorsweretrue.wordpress.com)

[RAMAIR57]

The administration at this "University" is an absolute joke. We are all supposed to kiss the ground they walk on because they're giving us the chance to become MD's; well, that diploma comes at a huge cost, and we get nowhere near what we should for our expenditures. I'm so sick of the way our education has been handled at this school from day 1; the disorganization has really gotten to me, from not getting handouts until after the units begin, to having no information on class schedules or clinical times, the list goes on and on and on. Its become embarassing; i would NEVER tell my friends in US med schools some of the obstacles Ive had to jump here. This school is staying afloat on its reputaton, but Im sure that reputation was built on far superior leadership than we are currently experiencing. If this keeps up, this school will no longer be considered one of better carib schools any longer. Sorry for the rant, but its just been too much now; the only thing that gets me by is knowing that even though we dont get the privelage to know anything about our placements, wherever I end up has to be better than this place.

[tralfaz]

Try checking the DES website on ANGEL (vinnies). Tons of reviews of the hospitals in diff states (plus contact info for the reviewer). Also, Scutwork.com (http://www.scutwork.com) is invaluable for such info from the perspectives of both residents and students.


In short, it sucks, but lets's be honest...this is nothing new. Just another hurdle to jump through.

[rokshana]

[quote=rumorsweretrue;509883]I have a list in front of me of hospitals I could spend the next two years of my life in and I'm not given any information about them from the school. My choices are:

Coney Island Hospital, Brooklyn
Brooklyn Hospital, Brooklyn
Jamaica Hospital, Queens
St. Barnabas Health Care System, NJ
St. Joseph's Regional Medical Center, NJ

And I know nothing about them. I'm about to live in one of these hospitals for two years and I don't know anything that's important to me as a student.
If you are Vinnie's at this moment- there are resources for you in the DES office. They have folders on each and everyone of these hospitals- YOU need to make the effort to at least look at these to get some basic information.
Also almost each and everyone of these hospitals have websites- GO LOOK AT THEM!!!

My classmates have been steaming over this for a while now and we've recently learned that Dr. W. is coming to the island to answer our questions. A few days after he arrives, our choices are due. And that's not good enough.

Not new not different- every class has had this issue- the rest of us made decisions, you can too.

My concern is finding a hospital that fits me, my goals, and my style of learning. If I get more 'hands on' experience at Coney but less in the way of mentoring, I want to know that. If I get to see more trauma at Jamaica Hospital, I want to know that. If Barnabas has state of the art facilities, if Brooklyn has great teachers, etc., I want to know that.

No one hospital is going to be "perfect" - they are very department -dependent- one hospital may have a GREAT medicine rotation and a crappy surgery one- and if you are at a clinical center then you have to suck up the bad with the good- its the price you pay to say in one place. Want the perfect place for yourself for each and every rotation? You'll probably have to move around.

I do not want to be left in the dark because YOU have decided FOR ME that these questions are unimportant. That so many students are so upset about being left in the dark should make it very clear to you that this is important. These are the next two years of my life and if I find that I am unhappy at my hospital and that more information earlier would have helped me AVOID THAT, then there is reason to be concerned.

If you are left in the dark- to be honest then that is your fault- again you need to start asking the questions - you were assigned a footstep buddy that was anywhere from 1 to 3 terms ahead of you. Did you keep in contact with them? Email them- ask them about there experiences and ask for their advice. Surely you met people in the term ahead of you? Talk to them- they may have just started, but i'm sure they have already gotten a feel for their hospitals.

If it is your job to shepherd us into New York and New Jersey, then you have chosen to lead us blindly. As any adult making an important decision, as much as I can have control over it (ranking my choices),

we actually HAVE choices- ask your friends in US schools how much of a choice they truly have- many of my friends were just given their schedules and assigned to hospitals - and not all were within driving distance of where they were living (though personally I would rather have to travel all over the south than to have to live in the Northeast for 2 years, but that is another issue altogether)

I am not proud today of the way SGU is choosing to handle us. I am not proud that this school has not taken the opportunity to prepare a few paragraphs from students that have gone before us and are willing to share their insight. I am not proud that SGU is making my decision, which is important to me, more difficult.

are you NEW to sgu? Handling information while everyone is in one or two places is way easier than when everyone is scattered to the 4 winds in the US- what on earth made you think they were going to be BETTER at it?


I have no right to complain unless I have a solution. Given the resources of the university, it should take no more than 10 days to have a guide of sorts for each hospital available to us.

1) Send out an email to students in M3 and M4 asking them to write 500-1000 words about their hospital, the pros and cons, the things they wish they knew beforehand, etc. Not every student can write or has the time, but someone will.

Right, the M4s are busy with their ERAS apps and the interview process and well, the M3 are just busy(and tired). While happy to tell people things, most aren't going to sit down and write a THOUSAND word essay (unless its for their personal statement). The few that would write something may or may not give you a true view- no one is that objective.

[rumorsweretrue]

Rokshana,

I appreciate your response and the time you took to make it. The best information available from the DES office is a series of cursory surveys taken by a few students each term. These surveys fail to cover even the short list of hospitals I included. The websites of each of these hospitals does not provide the type of information that would help me make a decision, but is instead more concerned with numbers of beds, number of doctors, etc. Further, everything on their websites is vetted by an individual in PR. You can't find the good with the bad.

The point of my complaint is to effect the change that the class wants to see. Deconstructing it to say that certain things are same-old same-old or that I'm silly to expect things to get better isn't moving in the right direction. It's not constructive.

For those interested in removing what seem like absurd obstacles it's important to raise a voice and complain. All that lying down and accepting it has ever accomplished is perpetuating the problem, and I don't want the people after me to have to deal with it anymore than I want to. We shouldn't have to.

1000 words really isn't that much. Your red letters come in at 400+.

[EMT2RN2MD]

Not being too keen on venturing past the Mason-Dixon, I set to work on devising a plan to narrow down this list of hospitals to find the one that would fit best w/ me. I searched vmd. I searched scutwork. I went to several of the hospital websites. None of that stuff helped so.......

I decided that I never really cared for Bon Jovi. That nixed all of the Jersey sites. This made the rest of my job soooo much easier. Next, I had New York, New York and Bakersfield, CA (affiliated hosp. w/ most cores) to deal with. I really liked Dwight Yoakum's song "Streets of Bakersfield" much better than Sinatra's New York, New York. And, thats no knock against "The Voice".

Then, I come to a problem. There's 3 New York Hospitals. I decided to flip a coin (best of 3) pitting the NY hospitals against each other. Coney Island was bested by both Jamaica(2-0) and Brooklyn(2-0). Finally, Jamaica came out a winner (2-1) over Brooklyn. That was a heated match. The coin fell OFF the balcony!

So, my list is Bakersfield, Jamaica, then Brooklyn.

[kini]

Is there any way that this thread and the "large classes are destroying SGU rep" can be read by administration? These are valid concerns, most of which can probably find solutions with the right approach. Is there a student committee for these kinds of problems? Each of you sound like you would be good candidates in a committee for this. You may be suprised at what can be accomplished.

[rokshana]

Rokshana,

I appreciate your response and the time you took to make it. The best information available from the DES office is a series of cursory surveys taken by a few students each term. These surveys fail to cover even the short list of hospitals I included. The websites of each of these hospitals does not provide the type of information that would help me make a decision, but is instead more concerned with numbers of beds, number of doctors, etc. Further, everything on their websites is vetted by an individual in PR. You can't find the good with the bad.

The point of my complaint is to effect the change that the class wants to see. Deconstructing it to say that certain things are same-old same-old or that I'm silly to expect things to get better isn't moving in the right direction. It's not constructive.

For those interested in removing what seem like absurd obstacles it's important to raise a voice and complain. All that lying down and accepting it has ever accomplished is perpetuating the problem, and I don't want the people after me to have to deal with it anymore than I want to. We shouldn't have to.

1000 words really isn't that much. Your red letters come in at 400+.


i had just finished my peds exam, so i had some free time. But free versing 400 words is different than writing an essay. But one of the biggest points i did make was that even if you did get someone to write something, everyone is different - what is good for me isn't necessarily what is good for you. Your friends are a better source for you- they know you and can tell you far better than some random stranger can about hospitals that are suited to you. For example, my old roommates from gnd are a term ahead of me, so i got info from them- they study the same way i do andd their advice has been invaluable to me from term 1. When they tell me- oh you should do this or that- i know that their advice is sound...for me. They know me.

believe it or not Dr.W is right about it not being about which hospital - they will all give you the opportunity to do your cores and excell at them. You need to take other things into consideration- do you want to live in NJ or NY? Are you city or surburban? Do you want to Are you going to want more time to study for step I or will you get it done in time for NJ's deadline? Do you mind spending 1500 per month in rent for a teeny timy place, so you can live in the "hip" part of town? Are you proficent in any languages that are spoken in the neighborhoods serviced by the hospitals?
Where are your friends going- do you want to be with them or do you care? DO you have family in a particular area? Its about lifestyle-if you are happy with where you are, then the rest is easy.
plus in the end, they might switch you anyway at the last minute!!

While its understandable that you are feeling lost- listen to what those ahead of you are telling you- you'll get what you need clinically at each and everyone of the hospitals- its all about the other things that will make your life happy (or at least bearable during 3rd year).

[emt036]

From what I've heard from a 4th year, I wouldn't recommend Coney Island. Don't know about the rest of them.

[deonj69420]

Thanks for that scutwork link. Any other similar links?

[tralfaz]

Thanks for that scutwork link. Any other similar links?


To the best of my knowledge, it's the best online source. I figure if reading all of the depressing surgical residency reviews won't deter you, then nothing will:p

Suicide gets mentioned there every once and a while.