DO vs Caribbean, Saba version...

[unoriginalone]

Disclaimer: I don't intend to start off any flame wars or trolling. I've already read through some threads to gauge opinions, but I really wanted a fresher perspective.

I'm slated to start Saba in May 2007, but I've received an acceptance offer to an osteopathic school.

While it seems that most people would recommend choosing the DO route over IMG for obvious reasons (stay in US, clinical rotation stability, pecking order in residency placements, etc), I seem to come up with some attributes of going to Saba that may counteract that; lower total cost, and the match list is pretty solid. Plus, I have a feeling that even a successful IMG may have a better shot at getting some competitive allopathic residencies than DO students, simply because of a perpetuation of DO stigma in some allopathic residency programs.

Again, I just want to make sure I've done all my research before I settle on what to do.

Any informed opinions, comments, and salient points would be appreciated. Thanks.

[miasma]

yeah, personally i would go with DO just because i tmeans staying in north america. but since i am canadian, getting into DO schools is pretty tough, so i chose saba...and i love it here so far. your points above are pretty accurate from what i have heard. i guess i can't really help except tell you what i would do. but don't get me wrong, i don't regret coming to saba at all, so far i am 100% happy here, and i am sure it will get me where i want to go.

[dcm8]

Honestly, I don't see how there is a real difference between going Saba or going to a DO school, educationally or anything else. As for discrimination I have never seen or heard of any discrimination between MD and DO. People always tell you that there is but when can they point to any discrimination?

In fact The DO's get invited to the AAMC meetings so what does it really matter. When do Caribbean schools get invited to the table? I go to MUA, Saba's sister school and if I had the chance to go DO I would, because living in the Caribbean is really hard anyone that tells you other wise is lying.

I say discuss it with your family and maybe take a visit to Saba. Before you make a decision.

dcm8

[KingMo]

I'm an American and while I didn't apply to DO schools, I'm 99% sure I would have been accepted. And needless to say, I am 100% sure I made the right decision to pursue Saba over DO and am extremely satisfied thus far.

From my perspective, it depends on what you want in terms of your career in medicine beyond medical school. If you're even considering a career in some of the specialties that DO rarely have an opportunity to even apply to, DO is a serious turn off. With an MD, I feel like I have more options available to me in the future, even if I may not be interested in doing them now.

Secondly, and maybe appealing to a more particular population of students/graduates, MD has more potential around the world than a DO would. DO is more of a North American thing. My brother is a Saba grad and is considering practicing abroad for a few years in the Middle East. That simply wouldn't be possible with a DO.

Something to think about...you wouldn't want to unnecessarily limit yourself later in terms of your career and what you want of it. Either way, I'm sure you will make the right decision.

[bhs2a]

I felt the same way as Kingmo. I am very interested in working abroad so I didn't apply DO.
Also, I felt I would do more studying at Saba because it has less distractions.
Although residency placement is my number one priority I felt that DO and carib are close.

[unoriginalone]

Thank you all for your responses; I do have a little time, thankfully, to make a decision. My deposit for one of the schools is not till December, and the rest of my Saba tuition is due in mid-March.

At this stage, I don't have any intention of practicing overseas, so I suppose that eliminates one advantage to the MD route.

Another point I forgot to bring up was the fact that as a DO, I would be able to apply to the DO specialty residencies (ie - rads, surg, etc) that would only be allowed for DO graduates, as well as the flexibility to apply to ACGME residencies, so it helps to have that flexibility.

I know one can't say until they've lived it, but I don't foresee myself living uncomfortably in the Caribbean, since I have some familiarity with living outside of the US through visiting India several times.

I'll rack my brain a little more in the next month or so before I come to some sort of decision. Any other questions that you all may have or factors that I may need to look at would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

[wolfvgang22]

In fact The DO's get invited to the AAMC meetings so what does it really matter. When do Caribbean schools get invited to the table? I go to MUA, Saba's sister school and if I had the chance to go DO I would, because living in the Caribbean is really hard anyone that tells you other wise is lying.

I say discuss it with your family and maybe take a visit to Saba. Before you make a decision.

dcm8
I completely agree with this statement! Living in the USA is 150% better than having to live overseas, an expensive plane ticket far from family and friends. Do not forget to calculate the cost of living here! Food prices are roughly double what you would pay in the U.S. There is very little variety. No shopping to speak of outside of tiny tourist shops. You will pay twice the amount of rent here for a similiar quality apartment you would get in the U.S. This is medical school boot-camp, nothing more, nothing less.

Don't get me wrong, I do not wish to offend any of my carribean friends, and I am grateful for the opportunity I have been given. I have done very well here at Saba, and I'm about to graduate basic sciences. It has been very tough, but I've learned a lot.The scenery is beautiful, and the people are for the most part great.
This is a very good school here, and most of what the school does impresses me. On occassion I've even had a little fun.

But I'd be lying (as would 95% of my fellow students) if I didn't say that I would trade places with you in a heartbeat to go to DO school in the states. It is sooo much easier! I could spend more of my time learning, time spent here merely surviving. I don't know if it's true, but I have heard it said many times that those who can travel this IMG road and make it are in the end much tougher than those who had the opportunity stay in N. America for school.

Finally, I see discrimination against IMGs in almost every aspect of everything we do as students. I mean, come on...this school is in the caribbean because it is not allowed on U.S. or Canadian soil. There are DO schools in nearly every U.S. state. Which one do you think is really more "accepted" in the U.S? Come on...you know the answer....:lol:

Make the smart choice: save the carribean for vacations or aid trips if you have already been accepted to a U.S. DO school. Med school is challenging enough without adding more challenge to it.

If you still want to know more about Saba, I will be happy to anwer any questions, just PM me. I will give sugar free answers to anyone who asks. There are a lot of great things, and some not so great things.

[rdecastro]

Disclaimer: I don't intend to start off any flame wars or trolling. I've already read through some threads to gauge opinions, but I really wanted a fresher perspective.

I'm slated to start Saba in May 2007, but I've received an acceptance offer to an osteopathic school.

While it seems that most people would recommend choosing the DO route over IMG for obvious reasons (stay in US, clinical rotation stability, pecking order in residency placements, etc), I seem to come up with some attributes of going to Saba that may counteract that; lower total cost, and the match list is pretty solid. Plus, I have a feeling that even a successful IMG may have a better shot at getting some competitive allopathic residencies than DO students, simply because of a perpetuation of DO stigma in some allopathic residency programs.

Again, I just want to make sure I've done all my research before I settle on what to do.

Any informed opinions, comments, and salient points would be appreciated. Thanks.

If you can afford it, I'd go DO. You will have fewer problems getting a good residency (it's possible from Saba or any of the other good Carib schools, but harder).

Plus, if you go DO you'll free a seat up for someone else.

[rdecastro]

Honestly, I don't see how there is a real difference between going Saba or going to a DO school, educationally or anything else. As for discrimination I have never seen or heard of any discrimination between MD and DO. People always tell you that there is but when can they point to any discrimination?

In fact The DO's get invited to the AAMC meetings so what does it really matter. When do Caribbean schools get invited to the table? I go to MUA, Saba's sister school and if I had the chance to go DO I would, because living in the Caribbean is really hard anyone that tells you other wise is lying.

I say discuss it with your family and maybe take a visit to Saba. Before you make a decision.

dcm8

These days in the States, the difference between getting an MD and a DO is about the same as getting a BA or ** in your undergraduate degree....not much at all.

[soon2BcaribDoc]

good arguements. I agree with just about everything said about MD (U.S/IMG) vs DO.

I would bring up the difference between the specific schools. It's obvious that no two M.D. or D.O. schools are created equal. There is actually a few osteopathic schools that I (PERSONALLY...VIEW MAY NOT BE SHARED BY OTHERS) would choose to not go to based on performance of the D.O. students, and instead head off to AUC (or the like).

Many other D.O. schools I would go to in a heart beat.

good luck

~Chad

[azskeptic]

also, the degree can be used in many countries now,including Canada.

read more at:

American Osteopathic Association (http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ost_dogoblobal)

[ChanceCount]

Also factor in the cost of loans. I haven't researched DO too much, but if you can get loans that are not private, they will likely have more favorable terms.

[Tellingitlikeitis]

if you want to be a docotor, saba can help you. If you have a problem with bugs, no night life, everyone knowing what you are doing no matter how insignificant, or basically paying 3 times as much for everything, than think twice about coming here. This place requires alot more motivation to survive than just becoming a doctor.

[simpleman1]

this is a no brainer....man, i wish i was in ur position. i would have picked DO right away, with no thinking....dont make a foolish mistake....please..

[SunDevilDoc]

During the application process to U.S. MD schools, I thought about applying to the DO schools and decided not to. I'm now in 2nd semester at Saba and I'm happy. There is a small part of me that wishes I would have applied to Midwestern Univ (in AZ) so I could skip all of the pain-in-the-a$$ travelling to and from Saba, but on the whole, I'm happy with Saba.

Two negatives about DO schools:
- Quantify exactly how much the tuition is! $30,000/year at Midwestern. Most DO's will become primary care doctors. Some do specialize, true, but not a big percentage.

- The curriculum is differentiated in part by having a manipulative medicine class for 4 hours a week. This is on top of a full curriculum. Ask Saba (or other MD students that are currently buried in their studies if they would want to ADD this on top of everything else. I know I am not going to go into primary care. Can you tell me how manipulative medicine will help me in anesthesiology or cardiology?

- DO's have become a lot more in number. INSIDE the healthcare field, everyone knows what they are. However, OUTSIDE healthcare professions, it really got to be annoying to have to educate people as to what they are. Had to clarify to many that "no, they aren't like chiropractors". Just a little ego thing.

I'm not totally negative on DOs. Part of me would have been happy to do it, but more for the geography - not having to move around. The travelling and relocating is a real annoyance for me.

Really, though, you have a nice dilemma - you'll be fine whatever you choose. :D

[azskeptic]

indeed Midwest is a fine school

Midwestern University: AZCOM (http://www.midwestern.edu/azcom/)

and as you may know another new osteopathic school has opened

New Medical School Challenges the Status Quo (http://www.atsu.edu/university_relations/news_releases/NewMedicalSchoolChallengestheStatusQuo.htm)


Arizona is short doctors so we'll be glad to have you back. Assume you have heard that one of the Saba grads is finishing a family practice residency here at Mayos-Scottsdale. Know him..a fine guy.....scored 99% on his USMLEs

[unoriginalone]

Thanks again to you all for your words of advice. This will probably turn out to be a tougher decision that I probably thought.

The pros of the DO route include the ability to stay in the US, more stable clinical rotation sites, and the flexibility to apply to DO or MD residencies, to name a few. The cons are that my loans will easily be 50K more than if I went to Saba, and it will be extremely difficult (although not impossible) to match in some of the more competitive allopathic residencies. I know it's still too early, but if I weren't to do internal medicine, I'd take a serious look at EM and Rads. EM is not too out of reach: I've read up on SDN about some EM programs that are DO-friendly, and have also seen match lists which show DO placement in allopathic EM residencies. Rads is a little different: there are so few DO Rads programs in the US, and there are very few DO students that match into allopathic Rads residencies.

I know it's easier said than done, but I don't believe I'll have too much difficulty adjusting to the lifestyle at Saba; I'm plenty motivated to becoming a physician.

I agree it's not too bad of a position to be choosing from...just want to make sure I'm well informed of what I'm getting myself in to before I commit to a certain path.

[DRDRWMD]

It also depends on what you want to specialize in and where you want to live. I had the choice, and chose Caribbean over DO, so that MD would be written in all the business cards, advertisements, etc . . . when I am hustling for business a few years down the road. If there are DO's in your community, it will be fine, but I did not want to explain to patients for the next forty years what exactly a DO is (not the Wal-Mart eye care specialist). Depending on where you go, the caribbean is not that bad. If I were married with a family, I would probably go DO and stay in the US. As a single person, it is nice to have some adventure and try out the Caribbean (and then you too can have MD instead of DO printed on your business cards).

[swimguy23]

it depends if you are comfortable having DO after your name. I have seen almost no difference between us grads, caribbean grads and DO's when they first start clinicals.....everyone is clueless. In psych, the attending also taught students from a US med school and he always said we were "no dumber than the american students".....i always found that funny. For me personally my choice is bc i wanted the MD after my name.....shallow yes, but im the one paying for my education so i really dont care what anyone elses opinion is on it unless they pay back my loans

[my.milkshake]

I'm really surprised that so many students would choose DO schools over Saba. I also had the same choice, but it didn't take too much research to show that DO schools have much worse match stats than Saba grads.

Here's one thread I found on SDN:
DO from America or MD from Caribbean, which one? - Page 4 - Student Doctor Network Forums
It described the importance of matching to an allopathic residency, as opposed to the osteopathic ones, which will cause even more problems down the road.

2006 Matches
-----
OSU-COM (http://centernet.okstate.edu/commenc...duates-fgh.cfm)

Osteopathic Programs 54.3%
Internal Medicine 6.5%
Family Medicine 7.6%
Peds 6.5%
Total Undesirable(Primary Care/ Osteopathic) 74.9%
(And as promised, if you *don't* throw out osteo programs, then the total primary care = 58%, fyi).

surgery 2.2%
em 5.4%
Anes 6.5%
ob/gyn 2.2%
psychiatry 4.3%
pm&r 2.2%
neurology 0
path 1.1%
rads 0
ophtho 0
derm 0

-----
SGU (http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsit...pointments.htm)
IM 33.8
FM 11.4
peds 11.2
Total Undesirable 56.4

surgery 10.2
em 8.4
anes 4.6
ob/gyn 6.3
psych 4.3
pm&r 2.8
neurology 2.3
path 0.5
rads 1.3
ophtho 0.5
derm 0.3

-----
SABA (SABA University - www.saba.edu - international medical university college (http://www.saba.edu/residency_match.php))
im 32.6
fm 29.3
peds 3.3
Total Undes 65.2

surgery 7.6
em 5.4
anes 7.6
ob/gyn 1.1
psych 8.7
pm&r 1.1
neurology 0
path 1.1
rads 1.1
ophtho 0
derm 0


I was actually considering Touro in Northern California. They break their allopathic and osteopathic matches down, and it's even worse than Oklahoma State Osteopathic list above.

And this has nothing to do with having an MD or DO behind my name, which I could care less about.

[unoriginalone]

Yeah, but click on that link, and look at the replies following that post.

[AxlFoley]

What DO school did you get into?

Personally, I would choose a D.O. Im actually a third Ross student, and easily adjusted to "island life"...but I guess it comes down to your clinical situation. Find out more about the DO school and life after basic sciences, and everything...

[wolfvgang22]

Thanks for that interesting post, my.milkshake. I don't agree with it, but it is interesting to look at.

Swimguy23, thanks for your post, also! I have a fair bit of anxiety about clinicals (will I know enough? will I measure up to other students? etc, etc.). Thanks for the encouragement. :)

[DSMMD]

This is not a clear-cut and easy decision, hopefully I will shed some light on the situation but may muddy the waters a little bit.

First off, I am extremely thankful for the opportunity that I had at Saba to become a physician. It was a hard path, but with hard work you can become a success.

With that being said, there are some things to consider when heading to Saba.

- It is extremely difficult to get away for a weekend back to the states.
Holidays that are celebrated in the states that you may get off for at a US school you will not get off for at Saba (i.e. Thanksgiving).
- It is very hard to get into some residencies depending on what you want to do (I know you said EM and Rads are what you are considering).
-Also, it is difficult to get licensed in some states right away which can cause delays in work afterwards. For instance, I did a 3 year residency and then wanted to start a fellowship upon completion of my residency. The fellowship required me to have a permanent medical license. However, there are some states that will not give you a permanent license until you have completed 3 years of post-grad training, and they need the letter signed after June 30. So, it is very difficult to finish a residency June 30 and start fellowship July 1. Not to mention that if you are depending on a permanent license to move elsewhere and start a job, and you invest in buying a place, starting a new job and then for some reason your license is not granted.

I think the benefit of being a DO is that you have more residency options open in terms of both allopathic and osteopathic residencies. However, there are some states that you have to do an osteopathic internship first.

However, as a DO, you should have the opportunity to get much better elective and core rotations as a med student, and I would imagine it is much easier to get interviews for residency from an osteopathic school.

Also, loans may be easier to come by for osteopathic schools than for allopathic schools.

With all this being said, I did go to Saba, and got into the residency and then fellowship that I had desired, got a job where I desired and will hopefully be moving to another job that I desire in the very near future. I did not get into an osteopathic med school or I would have forgone Saba to do it. Nothing against Saba as both the school and island helped to define who I am as a person and a physician, but the chance to stay in the states and what I perceive as an easier path would have been hard to turn down.

[Locuscoeruleus22]

I never realized DO is so much better than IMG MD. It seems to me though that based on some numbers I have seen on this forum, many students at some Caribbean schools could have gone the DO route but chose not to.

[farba]

i just needed to add my 2 cents to this topic.
First of all the whole legend about the stigma of a DO after your name is totally untrue. I am currently working with a cardiologist who is a DO... he did his fellowship in a top research university and is even a professor there. So as you can see it is possible to specialize and be well respected in the field. I shadowed this doctor for a while and i have NEVER heard any patient or nurse or anybody for that fact ask him what a DO is...for all his patients he is just a doctor. He is very much loved by his patients and recomended by a lot of primary care as well as specialist physicians.

And if you think that manipulative medicine is some kind of magic trick that doesn't work then you probobly have never seen it with your own eyes. I have and can assure you that it works.
And him being a cardiologist but being able to heal patient's pain on the spot in few minutes made my jaw drop down to the floor. Has he been not trained in OMM he would probobly prescribe the patient pain killers and she would be back next day with more pain.

Besides OMM became really hot in the last few years. Even Harvard offers a traning in it for practicing physicians. Osteopathic Manipulative Treatment: Osteopathic Manipulative Treatment for MDs, that to at Harvard University! (http://www.studentdoctor.net/blogs/omtguru/2005/12/osteopathic-manipulative-treatment-for.html)

As far as practicing abroad DO's are allowed to practice in many countries. One of the last ones to grant full practice rights to DO's was UK.
here is a helpful link listing in detail DO licencing in other countries: Can DOs practice internationally? - Student Doctor Network Forums (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=322218&highlight=international)
Now as far as the opinion on this that i have...i personally am applying next year all the way DO. Shall I not get in anywhere in the US i will definetly consider Saba as another alternative. But try to get into US schools first...it really save you a lot of future frustration, alienation and runing into biurocratic mess of licencing as an IMG.
hope that helps :)

[microphage]

it depends if you are comfortable having DO after your name. I have seen almost no difference between us grads, caribbean grads and DO's when they first start clinicals.....everyone is clueless. In psych, the attending also taught students from a US med school and he always said we were "no dumber than the american students".....i always found that funny. For me personally my choice is bc i wanted the MD after my name.....shallow yes, but im the one paying for my education so i really dont care what anyone elses opinion is on it unless they pay back my loans

I wanted the MD for research as DOs don't exactly have much of a presence in the research community. (exceptions do exist but for the most part...) Now going through med school and the ERAS/Match, it would seem some of the bigger name programs out West are more willing to take a DO to interview than a Caribbean MD. Add in that none of us will have a California letter by the time we apply and Univ of Cali programs all require it BEFORE the match, it eliminates a huge chunk of the west coast

[Dr.Speed]

i just needed to add my 2 cents to this topic.
First of all the whole legend about the stigma of a DO after your name is totally untrue.

Unfortunately, I'll have to disagree. A stigma does exist. Not in all places but usually in metropolitan areas. Some don't know what a D.O. is (they relate it to a chiropractor). Some people who know good and well what D.O.'s are feel they are incompetant since truth be told -- most likely they are DOs because they didn't get into a MD program. So - a stigma does exist.

Does this mean that D.O.s are bad doctors nor that they have unsuccessful practices? No. They are indeed equal to their MD counterparts. The stigma shouldn't discourage you from becoming a DO. The stigma is only associated with a select few people.

This is just my opinion.

[wolfvgang22]

A long time ago I used to think a D.O. was the same thing as an optometrist, for "Doctor of Optometry" or something. :lol:

[unoriginalone]

Bumping this thread up, if anybody had anything new to add.

[jconlyway]

Let me tell you about stigma. I went to chiro school without knowing of this stigma until i started into practice. I was scientifically based. no crystals or vitamin on a string to see which way it turned.(its out there trust me). From my vantage point, MD is god(lower case g) in healthcare. If you are going to be a DR. why not get the gold standard. If i would have known my 5th semester into med school what i know now, i would have been at saba in 1999. Do yourself a favor. If status, respect, and not ever, EVER, EVER, HAVING TO EXPLAIN WHAT KIND OF DR YOU ARE, FRIGIN' GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. Its all hard work. Im 31 and have a descent chiro practice, but im hopefully going to saba in sept with my wife and 2 little girls because my life needs to have a bigger impact on humanity than struggling for new patients and having to run newspaper ads siting free services just so i can prove myself that im a good doctor. Any thing less than an Md is at some point going to be questioned. Personally, im tired of swimming up stream.

If you determine, in your heart, that you are going to blow basics science at of the freakin' water, discipline yourself to study thoughout the semester for step 1, kill step 1 with a 220+,(congrats duc on 240+, thats doin' what it takes), and work well with others, you will be blessed with the residency and opportunities you want. Of course there are some dissappointments, but i believe its the best choice for me.

just a chiros point of view,
j

[tabor]

either way is good-to-go. It sounds like a win-win situation to me. If you are truly into the holistic approach then DO is great. But if you are really interested in a very specialized area of medicine Allopathic may be the way to go. However, I did see a Nuerosurgery residency on the PCOM website, and the chief resident is a DO. Peace.

[unoriginalone]

Thanks again for the responses.

[JLO]

Hi i just read your post.. on whether a DO School or not.. I think DO's great.. and if not you u can go there for a year keep ur grades up and transfer into a US medical school..

[rokshana]

Hi i just read your post.. on whether a DO School or not.. I think DO's great.. and if not you u can go there for a year keep ur grades up and transfer into a US medical school..

its not that easy- many schools only take LCME students for transfer (esp after only a year of med school) or will take MD students from foreign schools (usually into the 3rd year), not many take DO students

you shouldn't apply to either DO or Foreign with the plan of transferring, it happens, but not nearly as frequently as it did in previous years, and you will be disappointed. Go to either with the philospophy that you are fine with graduationg from that program- try to transfer and if you succeed- great!

[sheikh1]

How does it feel to have an MD at the end of your name, choose wisely!!

[Runzhouse]

It seems like one of the biggest knocks of going DO instead of carribbean is this supposed stigma...first of all, I am not going to deny that it exists, but I will tell you that it does not nearly exists as much as many of you say it does (probably in the ivy league type residencies), the fact is that every year, 50% of DO students end up in allopathic residencies...my point is that you would be easily be deluding yourself if you dont think there is a stigma that goes along with being a carribbean medical student. You cant make an argument to go carribbean because of a stigma agaisnt DO's, especially in residency when carrib students will be facing the exact same glass ceiling...you have to be above and beyond in numbers compared to allopathic US students to beat them out in competitive residencies..similar to DO's but to a lesser extent because they do have their own residencies...and this ** about having to explain your degree to patients..please...if any of you have actually shadowed a DO, patients know them as the cardiologist, neurosurgeons, emergency physician...etc..when someone does ask, its more about curiousy than actually questioning them if they are a true doctor...be proud of whatever path you are taking to get your dream of becoming a physician, whether it be allopathic or osteopathic...in the end, its your residency that dictates how well of a physician you will actually be

[rokshana]

It seems like one of the biggest knocks of going DO instead of carribbean is this supposed stigma...first of all, I am not going to deny that it exists, but I will tell you that it does not nearly exists as much as many of you say it does (probably in the ivy league type residencies), the fact is that every year, 50% of DO students end up in allopathic residencies...my point is that you would be easily be deluding yourself if you dont think there is a stigma that goes along with being a carribbean medical student. You cant make an argument to go carribbean because of a stigma agaisnt DO's, especially in residency when carrib students will be facing the exact same glass ceiling...you have to be above and beyond in numbers compared to allopathic US students to beat them out in competitive residencies..similar to DO's but to a lesser extent because they do have their own residencies...and this ** about having to explain your degree to patients..please...if any of you have actually shadowed a DO, patients know them as the cardiologist, neurosurgeons, emergency physician...etc..when someone does ask, its more about curiousy than actually questioning them if they are a true doctor...be proud of whatever path you are taking to get your dream of becoming a physician, whether it be allopathic or osteopathic...in the end, its your residency that dictates how well of a physician you will actually be

i don't think anyone here woulld say that there isn't a stigma to the IMG status, but its just which stigma you are comfortable with (and as much as you may want to think that gap has closed between DO and MD, it hasn't).

so, my question is, why do DOs have Dr. J ohn S mith on their coats, busness cards, letterhead, etc and the MD(foreign or otherwise) have J ohn S mith, MD- itsa common enough ocurrance.

[GFLIP]

both treat patients. i see no difference.

[farba]

i don't think anyone here woulld say that there isn't a stigma to the IMG status, but its just which stigma you are comfortable with (and as much as you may want to think that gap has closed between DO and MD, it hasn't).

so, my question is, why do DOs have Dr. J ohn S mith on their coats, busness cards, letterhead, etc and the MD(foreign or otherwise) have J ohn S mith, MD- itsa common enough ocurrance.
this is the most uninformed statement i have read in a long time.
Obviously you have never shadowed or worked with a DO:rolleyes:
I worked with couple of DOs for over a year and none of these things you said above are true.
As much as it's not true that there is some sort of stigma. DO Stigma only exists in the pre-meds dictionary otherwise there wouldn't be any DO specialists who are holding professor and research possitions at the best universities in USA.
Just do a search.
I have also never heard even once any patient ask what a DO was or if the DO who was treating them was a real doctor. For ppl they are just doctor, no one cares about the initials after their name.
It's the same if you cared if you dentist is a DMD or DDS...who cares if he/she knows how to drill in your teeth:cool:

[Gigi25]

hmmmmm DO, MD .... what to they have in common? Doctor.. Do we want to take care of our patients? hopefuly ..Let's try and keep this in mind...I am of the opinion that no matter what letters follow our name as long as we keep this in mind, we will be FINE DOCTORS :)...

sleepy---> nighty night :bored:

[sheikh1]

Just flip a coin and pick one, and save us from urguing which one is right.

[rdecastro]

i don't think anyone here woulld say that there isn't a stigma to the IMG status, but its just which stigma you are comfortable with (and as much as you may want to think that gap has closed between DO and MD, it hasn't).

so, my question is, why do DOs have Dr. J ohn S mith on their coats, busness cards, letterhead, etc and the MD(foreign or otherwise) have J ohn S mith, MD- itsa common enough ocurrance.


These days, the practical difference is about the same as the difference between getting a B.S. in college vs. a B.A....

In other words, no difference at all.

[unoriginalone]

While the reality is that there is very little discrimination if any between DO/MD in a clinical setting (after all, most of the discrimination is propagated by users on forums such as this one and SDN), there still is bias evident during the residency application process for some allopathic programs; you do tend to have programs that are DO-unfriendly, unaware of how to interpret COMLEX scores, etc.

Having said that, there is a general sentiment that all things as equal as they can be (USMLE scores, LOR's, etc), that US DO students have an advantage over any FMG.

The difficulty in my situation arose because the only DO school that I've been admitted to has had rumblings of administration problems and some discontent (not by every student, but by enough to make me concerned). However, they did indicate that despite the admin issues, etc (which I'm sure are evident in some capacity at any school) that their educational experience was fine.

I've never had a hangup with the "initials" dilemma; the question that I asked to myself this entire time was this: Is it more valuable to go to a DO school, be saddled with a 200k+ debt, and only have a marginally better chance at some residency spots than going to Saba with what I assume is less debt, and keeping my nose clean/busting my butt etc, and still landing a solid residency?

What I've heard is that if I'm totally sure that I want to do primary care, that Saba would be way to go. But, if I wanted to keep more options open, then the DO route would allow the most flexibility.


As of right now, it looks like I'll go the DO route, because it seems like a smoother road. But my opinions are unfortunately flip-flopping more than I would have liked (or anticipated).

[aspiring in alaska]

While the reality is that there is very little discrimination if any between DO/MD in a clinical setting (after all, most of the discrimination is propagated by users on forums such as this one and SDN), there still is bias evident during the residency application process for some allopathic programs; you do tend to have programs that are DO-unfriendly, unaware of how to interpret COMLEX scores, etc.

I agree with what unoriginalone said above, I also know there is a stigma with DO and IMG. But I choose one of the top 4 Caribbean schools which I feel will allow me more options with residency, maybe not much more, but still I felt I would be more competitive going this route. This DO stigma does exist, perhaps the people that are working with DO's are to close to see it.

I've volunteered or worked at several hospital's for the past 5 years. My wife is a nurse, 2 of my aunts are nurses as well as my grandmother is a nurse. My father is a MD, and so is one of my Aunts. I'm on first name basis with about half a dozen of the residents, and know a dozen MD's with many years of pratice under there belt very well. I asked all of them for their advice. I could have gone DO very easy, I choose Caribbean MD and am currently in my first term and very content and happy.

I'm not saying Caribbean is for everyone. This track does have its difficulties, and a lot of people might be happy and content with DO and what it has to offer. My advice would be for people to do their own research, ask a bunch of different people, then make an informed decision.

[farba]

While the reality is that there is very little discrimination if any between DO/MD in a clinical setting (after all, most of the discrimination is propagated by users on forums such as this one and SDN), there still is bias evident during the residency application process for some allopathic programs; you do tend to have programs that are DO-unfriendly, unaware of how to interpret COMLEX scores, etc.

Having said that, there is a general sentiment that all things as equal as they can be (USMLE scores, LOR's, etc), that US DO students have an advantage over any FMG.

The difficulty in my situation arose because the only DO school that I've been admitted to has had rumblings of administration problems and some discontent (not by every student, but by enough to make me concerned). However, they did indicate that despite the admin issues, etc (which I'm sure are evident in some capacity at any school) that their educational experience was fine.

I've never had a hangup with the "initials" dilemma; the question that I asked to myself this entire time was this: Is it more valuable to go to a DO school, be saddled with a 200k+ debt, and only have a marginally better chance at some residency spots than going to Saba with what I assume is less debt, and keeping my nose clean/busting my butt etc, and still landing a solid residency?

What I've heard is that if I'm totally sure that I want to do primary care, that Saba would be way to go. But, if I wanted to keep more options open, then the DO route would allow the most flexibility.


As of right now, it looks like I'll go the DO route, because it seems like a smoother road. But my opinions are unfortunately flip-flopping more than I would have liked (or anticipated).
the don't have to because you can take USMLE.
I also do not think that a Caribbean school will turn out to be much cheaper.
But then again...you choose what works for you.
If i had a choice between DO or Saba i would go DO without a blink, but i am totally fascinated by OMM and want to learn it so i am a little biased.

[farba]

I agree with what unoriginalone said above, I also know there is a stigma with DO and IMG. But I choose one of the top 4 Caribbean schools which I feel will allow me more options with residency, maybe not much more, but still I felt I would be more competitive going this route. This DO stigma does exist, perhaps the people that are working with DO's are to close to see it.

I've volunteered or worked at several hospital's for the past 5 years. My wife is a nurse, 2 of my aunts are nurses as well as my grandmother is a nurse. My father is a MD, and so is one of my Aunts. I'm on first name basis with about half a dozen of the residents, and know a dozen MD's with many years of pratice under there belt very well. I asked all of them for their advice. I could have gone DO very easy, I choose Caribbean MD and am currently in my first term and very content and happy.

I'm not saying Caribbean is for everyone. This track does have its difficulties, and a lot of people might be happy and content with DO and what it has to offer. My advice would be for people to do their own research, ask a bunch of different people, then make an informed decision.
after shadowing a known speciallist/ also currently a professor at a top tier MD school who graduated from CCOM i have totally set my mind on DO.

[DOCplucinski]

For me, I didn't even know what a DO was until my freshman year of college. Since I've always wanted to get my MD, I would never go for the DO. I'm not saying that one is better, its just the mindset I've had for awhile.

[rokshana]

Obviously you have never shadowed or worked with a DO:rolleyes:
I am currently rotating at a program that has both allopathic and osteopathic residencies and to be honest, not that impressed with the osteopathic residents- they are not nearly as organized, efficient, and knowledgable as the their allopathic counterparts. Don't get me wrong, their are some DO attendings here and they are very good, but overall glad i went MD.

I worked with couple of DOs for over a year and none of these things you said above are true.
so, of course since you never saw it or experienced it, its not true.

As much as it's not true that there is some sort of stigma. DO Stigma only exists in the pre-meds dictionary otherwise there wouldn't be any DO specialists who are holding professor and research possitions at the best universities in USA.
check the NRMP fellowship match statistics- overall IMGs match at a greater % than do DOs.

I have also never heard even once any patient ask what a DO was or if the DO who was treating them was a real doctor. For ppl they are just doctor, no one cares about the initials after their name.
again, you may be in an area where DO are mainstream, but just because you haven't heard it, doesn't mean its not true.

and as for the Dr. J ohn Sm ith instead of J ohn Sm ith, DO- I was half joking- many do not, but i have seen a number who do

[farba]

I am currently rotating at a program that has both allopathic and osteopathic residencies and to be honest, not that impressed with the osteopathic residents- they are not nearly as organized, efficient, and knowledgable as the their allopathic counterparts. Don't get me wrong, their are some DO attendings here and they are very good, but overall glad i went MD.


so, of course since you never saw it or experienced it, its not true.


check the NRMP fellowship match statistics- overall IMGs match at a greater % than do DOs.


again, you may be in an area where DO are mainstream, but just because you haven't heard it, doesn't mean its not true.

and as for the Dr. J ohn Sm ith instead of J ohn Sm ith, DO- I was half joking- many do not, but i have seen a number who do
I doubt that disorganization, or lack of knowledge of a person is coused by the degree they obtain (like B.S's are more knowledgeble and efficient as B.A's:rolleyes: ).
And your statement was as generalized as you claim mine were.
I for instance have met wonderfull DOs but quite a few MDs who were rude and had no bedside ethics.

Secondly the statistics you are looking at do not include the osteopathic residencies for which only osteopathic students can match (and those include the neuro, ortho and all other big ones). If a DO student matches in DO residency they are automatically dropped from the allo residency match, which means he/she will not be included in the statistic as someone who matched against IMGs.

[swimguy23]

I doubt that disorganization, or lack of knowledge of a person is coused by the degree they obtain (like B.S's are more knowledgeble and efficient as B.A's:rolleyes: ).
And your statement was as generalized as you claim mine were.
I for instance have met wonderfull DOs but quite a few MDs who were rude and had no bedside ethics.

Secondly the statistics you are looking at do not include the osteopathic residencies for which only osteopathic students can match (and those include the neuro, ortho and all other big ones). If a DO student matches in DO residency they are automatically dropped from the allo residency match, which means he/she will not be included in the statistic as someone who matched against IMGs.

blah blah blah blah blah

IMGs will make fun of DO's, DO's will make fun of IMGs, US med students make fun of all of us, I make fun of US med students bc the ONE im working with currently has no people skills.....guess its a good thing im doin colonoscopies all day

[unoriginalone]

Once again, I appreciate everyone putting their 2 cents in, whether I agree with it or not.

I go back and forth every day, but I have to come to a decision fairly soon because deposits are coming up (for Saba and the DO school in mid-March). I just don't want to look back when I'm applying as a resident and think that my options were limited because I chose one field over the other.

If I was totally sure I'd do primary care, then Saba would be the logical choice. But, if I wanted to be more flexible and go for radiology (or even opth or something), and I busted my ***, I could still have the luxury of getting into one of the few quality osteopathic residencies in those specialties; something that would be very difficult obtaining in the same field as an IMG.

[DOCplucinski]

Once again, I appreciate everyone putting their 2 cents in, whether I agree with it or not.

I go back and forth every day, but I have to come to a decision fairly soon because deposits are coming up (for Saba and the DO school in mid-March). I just don't want to look back when I'm applying as a resident and think that my options were limited because I chose one field over the other.

If I was totally sure I'd do primary care, then Saba would be the logical choice. But, if I wanted to be more flexible and go for radiology (or even opth or something), and I busted my ***, I could still have the luxury of getting into one of the few quality osteopathic residencies in those specialties; something that would be very difficult obtaining in the same field as an IMG.

I just wanted to say one thing, just from an experience with a friend. I had a friend that started at NYCOM in the fall of 06. He hated it, he didn't like the way they tought, he said it was completely different than anything he's delt with before. I didn't come back the following semester and now he's going to Ross. I haven't talked to him since he left, he doesn't go online much.

I know every school is different but I just wanted to throw that out there that DO school may not be for everyone. Remember, besides conventional medicine, you are learning the whole osteopathic thing. I don't know much about it but I think you either like it or hate it. Good luck in your decision and future.

[pruritis_ani]

Once again, I appreciate everyone putting their 2 cents in, whether I agree with it or not.

I go back and forth every day, but I have to come to a decision fairly soon because deposits are coming up (for Saba and the DO school in mid-March). I just don't want to look back when I'm applying as a resident and think that my options were limited because I chose one field over the other.

If I was totally sure I'd do primary care, then Saba would be the logical choice. But, if I wanted to be more flexible and go for radiology (or even opth or something), and I busted my ***, I could still have the luxury of getting into one of the few quality osteopathic residencies in those specialties; something that would be very difficult obtaining in the same field as an IMG.

here is a statistic to mull over....close to 100% of those that attend DO schools get a residency.

about half of those that go abroad for med school do not even pass the USMLE.

when it comes right down to it, most allopathic residency programs will look at a DO and an IMG in a similar ways. but, i can tell you that FAR more qualified DO's apply than do IMG's. seeing the applications in direct comparison shows pretty clearly that, at my program at least, there seem to be far more qualified DO's. we have a few stellar IMG's applying, sure, but the DO's are pretty solid across the board.

i am very, very happy where i am. but, if i had to repeat it from day one, i would still take DO every time. far, far less risk. the 50k in loans will scarcely be noticeable when it comes time to payback. and, paying an extra 50k with a virtual guarantee of finishing and getting a job, and having a much easier path to the competitive fields...well, it is an investment that makes sense.

[aspiring in alaska]

I seriously dont think you can lump in the Top 4 Caribbean schools with "those that go abroad" in passing the USMLE. I could just as easily say the average pass rate for the USMLE for those that go to a top caribbean school is much higher then then the average for DO's, and you know what? I'd be right. And has for the residencies, SABA, AUC, SGU, and ROSS seem to be doing pretty good for themselves, with great matches.

[pruritis_ani]

I seriously dont think you can lump in the Top 4 Caribbean schools with "those that go abroad" in passing the USMLE. I could just as easily say the average pass rate for the USMLE for those that go to a top caribbean school is much higher then then the average for DO's, and you know what? I'd be right. And has for the residencies, SABA, AUC, SGU, and ROSS seem to be doing pretty good for themselves, with great matches.

don't fool yourself. there is a LARGE contingent of people that go to even the better schools and either fail out of school or fail the USMLE. SGU is far and away the best, but both AUC and Ross have lots of folks that fail out, transfer or even fail the USMLE. likely not on the order of the overall 50% fail rate for IMGs as a whole, but still a large number.

as far as the top schools having a higher average pass rate than the DO schools...well, at best, maybe. but, those stats are not available from any trustworthy source. besides, if you go to a DO school and fail the USMLE, what happens? nothing. you still will pass the Comlex, and still be eligible for the vast majority of residency positions out there. if you go to any offshore school and fail USMLE, you face an uphill battle, and will have a VERY difficult time getting any job, assuming that you eventually do pass the exam.

don't get me wrong, there are MANY of us who went offshore and do quite well. many of us have great jobs, in great fields. but, the plain truth is that for each success story, there is a person that went abroad and failed to get a spot. say what you will about stigma, about patients not knowing what a DO is, etc...but, at the end of the day, if you go DO you have an almost fail safe track to a job as a physician in the US. go the offshore route, and you may do well, you may scrape by, or you may not get back at all. seems to be a very easy choice, IMHO.

[aspiring in alaska]

So what you are saying is…if I go DO I will be successful in medical school, but if I go Caribbean I might fail out? Sooooo….DO schools are easier to pass? I’m sorry, but I don’t have any stats on the amount of people that fail out of DO school, I do know about the high attrition rate of ROSS, but I don’t think you can lump SGU or SABA in that high attrition rate, I don’t know much about AUC attrition rates.

However, I’m pretty sure that the people that would have failed out of Caribbean MD schools will not magically pass DO schools, and would not pass US MD Schools if given the chance. Likewise, if you can pass Caribbean MD, I’m pretty sure you could have passed US MD, you can more then likely pass US DO.

Bottom line is I believe both Caribbean MD and US DO are very viable, but one is more attractable to some based on what they can offer. If you like safety residencies, staying in America, don’t mind the DO initials, and want to stay in the DO residencies, that’s fine and your call. I want a residency that is a bit more competitive, living outside the US is tough but will only be for 2 years, and the MD initials is sexy.

If I flunk out of Caribbean MD, why will I do any better in US DO? I happen to think I’m more focused and studying more because I am in the Caribbean. Everyone should do their own research, and then pick for themselves what they think is best. I did my research, I could have very easily gotten into a DO school but I choose SGU, and I would have been just as happy with SABA or AUC.

[pruritis_ani]

So what you are saying is…if I go DO I will be successful in medical school, but if I go Caribbean I might fail out? Sooooo….DO schools are easier to pass? I’m sorry, but I don’t have any stats on the amount of people that fail out of DO school, I do know about the high attrition rate of ROSS, but I don’t think you can lump SGU or SABA in that high attrition rate, I don’t know much about AUC attrition rates.

However, I’m pretty sure that the people that would have failed out of Caribbean MD schools will not magically pass DO schools, and would not pass US MD Schools if given the chance. Likewise, if you can pass Caribbean MD, I’m pretty sure you could have passed US MD, you can more then likely pass US DO.

Bottom line is I believe both Caribbean MD and US DO are very viable, but one is more attractable to some based on what they can offer. If you like safety residencies, staying in America, don’t mind the DO initials, and want to stay in the DO residencies, that’s fine and your call. I want a residency that is a bit more competitive, living outside the US is tough but will only be for 2 years, and the MD initials is sexy.

If I flunk out of Caribbean MD, why will I do any better in US DO? I happen to think I’m more focused and studying more because I am in the Caribbean. Everyone should do their own research, and then pick for themselves what they think is best. I did my research, I could have very easily gotten into a DO school but I choose SGU, and I would have been just as happy with SABA or AUC.

I am simply saying the statistics greatly favor a DO school, when comparing outcomes. I am saying that simply by enrolling in a DO school, you are virtually assured of graduating as a physician, and obtaining a residency. Those of us that finish can easily look back and say, "hey I would have done well anywhere". However, as a new student, the OP does not have this option. He needs to look at the statistics, and realize that going abroad is clearly a risk. Sure, it is dependent on the individual. Sure, if he could do well at a DO school, he likely could do well at an offshore school. But, there are a lot of very well qualified people that fall through the cracks-could be due to living in the carib, and the sub-optimal learning conditions, or perhaps the less regulated teaching is not up to snuff, or perhaps it helps just to be closer to family, freinds, and having a stable and comfortable home environment. Whatever it is, the numbers do not lie. The DO students all become doctors, while about 50% of the IMGs get to the same outcome.

On an individual level, it is easy to say in hindsight, hey I would have done well anywhere. But, the fact is, there are FAR more variables to an offshore education, and there are certainly more opportunities to fail.

Also, it is pretty incredible that you think DO residency options are "safety" residencies. The fact is, there are FAR more opportunities to practice in any specialty as a DO than as an IMG, including the more competitive ones. Why? Because the DO programs exist in all sub specialties. No offense, but it is very, very foolish to think that you have a better shot at a competitive residency as an IMG.

Again, I myself am an IMG. I did very well. I have a great residency, and I could not have done better had I gone to a DO school. Even so, I continue to say it is absolutely foolish to go abroad if you can stay home and get a DO or an MD. I love my MD, and wouldn't trade it for a DO, but I sure do recognize that my life would have been without a lot of stress and worry, and had I wanted an uber competitive residency, I would have had a better chance as a DO.

As IMG's we face many, many obstacles. From the absurd attrition rates, to dismal USMLE pass rates, to outright exclusion from many residency programs based on our IMG status. Additionally, we are at the mercy of state licensing boards that can very easily make it difficult or impossible to obtain a license. We face a demand of increased training to get a permanent license.

Our goal when entering school is to practice medicine in the US, in our specialty of choice, without restriction. It is very, very clear that a student enrolling in a DO program has an excellent chance at obtaining this. As an FMG, you have far more difficulty.

[ducman]

This thread has a very important and hotly debated topic in the medical education arena. However, it is progressing towards a more general discussion thread and shall be moved to General Discussion thread.

[Gigi25]

he 50k in loans will scarcely be noticeable when it comes time to payback. and, paying an extra 50k with a virtual guarantee of finishing and getting a job, and having a much easier path to the competitive fields...well, it is an investment that makes sense.

wow only 50k in loans?? Can I go to your school LOL (just kidding).. I have way over that amount and I am only an MSIII.. Of course this is completely my fault (scuba diving on Saba etc..) :cool:

[pruritis_ani]

wow only 50k in loans?? Can I go to your school LOL (just kidding).. I have way over that amount and I am only an MSIII.. Of course this is completely my fault (scuba diving on Saba etc..) :cool:

Actually, I meant to say 50k in extra loans...the OP was stating that Saba cost aprox 50k less than DO. I think that extra 50k is a smart investment.

[GeorgeMD2B]

In the eyes of PDs DO's are only one notch below allopathic graduates. A DO is definitely higher on the totem pole than all IMGs. DOs get far more financial support from Stafford loan programs, 38K+ for DOs versus only a meager 18.5K for foreign schools. Its not a major struggle for DOs to get into highly competitive residency programs, there are many DOs who get into RADS, ER, Anesthesiology, Orthopedics, etc.

[swimguy23]

In the eyes of PDs DO's are only one notch below allopathic graduates. A DO is definitely higher on the totem pole than all IMGs. DOs get far more financial support from Stafford loan programs, 38K+ for DOs versus only a meager 18.5K for foreign schools. Its not a major struggle for DOs to get into highly competitive residency programs, there are many DOs who get into RADS, ER, Anesthesiology, Orthopedics, etc.

so you're speaking for all PDs?

youre stating highly generalized opinions

[GeorgeMD2B]

Osteopathic medical students qualify for the US military's scholarship program that is offered to US allopathic students, so in the eyes of the US military US osteopathic students are equivalent to US allopathic students. The federal goverment offers a much higher loan limit to osteopathic students than to those who go offshore for an education. That is proof enough that DO is a much better route than going offshore. If I could get into a DO program I would do it.
There are a lot of residency programs that are very difficult for IMGs to match into, RADS, Orthopedics, ER, and Anesthesiology are very hard for foreign graduates to match into but DOs regularly match into these programs.

[mtbd]

Osteopathic medical students qualify for the US military's scholarship program that is offered to US allopathic students, so in the eyes of the US military US osteopathic students are equivalent to US allopathic students. The federal goverment offers a much higher loan limit to osteopathic students than to those who go offshore for an education. That is proof enough that DO is a much better route than going offshore. If I could get into a DO program I would do it.
There are a lot of residency programs that are very difficult for IMGs to match into, RADS, Orthopedics, ER, and Anesthesiology are very hard for foreign graduates to match into but DOs regularly match into these programs.

How you can be so naive! Military will pay anybody just to grab you! If you are a US Citizen or legal resident, they will pay for your Caribbean MD as well as long as you sign the contract with them!
In regards with Anesthesiology being very difficult to get into for IMGs, why and how then 5 out of only 62 SABA 2006 graduates got in to it?! Never mind SGU!
Nothing personal against DO program.

[JeebusLives]

quick question. MDs get MD written on the lisence plate of their car. Do DOs get anything? I dont recall ever seeing it but maybe i did and didnt know what it meant.

[DOCplucinski]

When its all said and done though, all the proclaimed plus's to US DO's over IMG MD's, your name still says MD. There isn't a small parethese saying (this MD was obtained outside of the US), you're still an MD. Not saying that either one is better or not, but just because someone obtained their MD outside of the US compaired to someone who obtained their DO inside of the US doesn't make one any more qaulified to do their job.

[rokshana]

Osteopathic medical students qualify for the US military's scholarship program that is offered to US allopathic students, so in the eyes of the US military US osteopathic students are equivalent to US allopathic students. The federal goverment offers a much higher loan limit to osteopathic students than to those who go offshore for an education. That is proof enough that DO is a much better route than going offshore. If I could get into a DO program I would do it.
There are a lot of residency programs that are very difficult for IMGs to match into, RADS, Orthopedics, ER, and Anesthesiology are very hard for foreign graduates to match into but DOs regularly match into these programs.

your kidding, right? Your rationale that DO must be better because the military scholarship is offered to them and that they get more in stafford loans? In that sense, students should be offered more loans becuase there school is better, but let's see- i believe a student at Harvard med school gets the same amount from the gov't as someone at the med school ranked dead last- so that logic just doesn't work.

and you are corrrect there are DOs in those competitive residencies- because they have DO residencies in those specialties- but when you compare DOs in ALLOPATHIC residencies- the numbers are similar and in fact IMGs(those US citizens from foreign schools) get more fellowship spots than DO (there are some fellowships that only allow MDs).

[Gigi25]

I think that it's human nature to defend our decisions (ie DO vs MD vs wutever)... So as someone said before, flip a coin, do research, or whatever you want to do to make the decision. To be quite honest, I don't know much about DO only what one of my collegues from my previous rotation told me. She said she had to set up all her cores and was freaking out about trying to find a program in peds that was DO (in a specific state). SHe was stressing about maybe having to write the Steps in addition to the COMLEX. :roll:...

[swimguy23]

Osteopathic medical students qualify for the US military's scholarship program that is offered to US allopathic students, so in the eyes of the US military US osteopathic students are equivalent to US allopathic students. The federal goverment offers a much higher loan limit to osteopathic students than to those who go offshore for an education. That is proof enough that DO is a much better route than going offshore. If I could get into a DO program I would do it.
There are a lot of residency programs that are very difficult for IMGs to match into, RADS, Orthopedics, ER, and Anesthesiology are very hard for foreign graduates to match into but DOs regularly match into these programs.

Your points arent convincing me of much.....not everyone wants to go into a ROAD specialty or ER. For every MD carib student I have heard wish they went DO, i have heard an equal number of DO students wish they went MD.....and I have rotated with a lot of DO students. Currently im rotating through GI (one of the toughest fellowships) and 3/5 of the fellows are carib MD's.....what does that mean, nothing

you're arguing moot points. Transfer out and go DO if you want

[cookies]

How you can be so naive! Military will pay anybody just to grab you! If you are a US Citizen or legal resident, they will pay for your Caribbean MD as well as long as you sign the contract with them!
.

That's not true, i spoke to one of the recruiters and he said that the scholarships are only for U.S schools.

[aspiring in alaska]

The recruiter I spoke to said they where trying to get Certain Caribbean Schools for funding, but it never happened. Military MD/DO full rides are way below their quota. Only the Airforce is near their quota, Army is at around 73ish while Navy is aruond 53%, for quota filled. However, after your residency you can join the military and get a phatty recruitment bonus, but...you already went this far without the military, why join now? heh.

Like a previous poster said, just because the military will fund your education doesn't mean its somehow better. The option of military funding didn't sway me to pick a DO school over the Caribbean school i'm in now.

Just like Swimguy said, do your research, pick a program, and go with it.

Afterwards you can come on these forums and defend your choice till the end of time ;)

[stephew]

cookies is correct; the military does not work that way. further, insulting users is against tos. and its embarrassing when you do it and the point is wrong.

[swimguy23]

cookies is correct; the military does not work that way. further, insulting users is against tos. and its embarrassing when you do it and the point is wrong.

i hate how you always add logic and get the kids under control....its so "mom" of you

i nominate steph for VMD mom

[Runzhouse]

Why do people get caught up so much on the initials of a physician (MD, DO, MBBS...watever)?....Recently the osteopathic medical community changed their degree from Doctor of Osteopathy to Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. Now if enough people actually cared about the initials, they can get it changed to say MD as well because they are in fact Medical Doctors, something like MD, DO or MD (ost.) has been talked about. Too bad nobody in the osteopathic community cares enough about the initials to want it to change (or nobody is willing to spend the time to ask for the change to the powers that be). If osteopathic schools changed the designation would any of you really wished they had gone to an osteopathic school. Probably not because the initials really dont matter in the end. In my opinion (dont flame me for this), because one gave an MD over a DO as the designation to be placed on your white coat is a poor excuse to pick one school over the other. Things like location, family, friends, tuition, matchlists, facilities...etc far outweigh what initials the schools gives out as long as it gives you a chance at being a physician.

[sheikh1]

It must be an issue, simply because so many are interested in the subject.

[Runzhouse]

It must be an issue, simply because so many are interested in the subject.

I think for pre-meds, superficial things like initials matters alot, but once they get into medical school they will realize other issues are far more important. From a lot of DO students I have spoken to, whenever issues are brought up that need to be addressed within the DO community having the initials changed to include MD seem to on the low end...more are worried about harassing the AOA for more osteopathic residencies, issues in regards to the 5 states that require an AOA intership year, OMM as an elective course...The healthcare community (allopathic and osteopathic) have a lot more problems to deal with than things that relate to initials on the white coat. Plus, when questioned about the issue, the president of the AOA states that a survey has to first be done to conclude that a majority is in favor, and second, he feels like the thousands of DO's who are already in succesful practices could care less about anything with that. Like I said, there are so many more pressing issues in healthcare that need to be addressed.

[Gigi25]

I think for pre-meds, superficial things like initials matters alot, but once they get into medical school they will realize other issues are far more important. From a lot of DO students I have spoken to, whenever issues are brought up that need to be addressed within the DO community having the initials changed to include MD seem to on the low end...more are worried about harassing the AOA for more osteopathic residencies, issues in regards to the 5 states that require an AOA intership year, OMM as an elective course...The healthcare community (allopathic and osteopathic) have a lot more problems to deal with than things that relate to initials on the white coat. Plus, when questioned about the issue, the president of the AOA states that a survey has to first be done to conclude that a majority is in favor, and second, he feels like the thousands of DO's who are already in succesful practices could care less about anything with that. Like I said, there are so many more pressing issues in healthcare that need to be addressed.

very informative and well said too :)

[sprightly719]

I will give sugar free answers to anyone who asks. There are a lot of great things, and some not so great things.

I am starting school in May 2007. I would like some feedback on why it's so hard to live on the island. Everyone says it's hard but I don't understand what is so hard. I hate the uncertainity, I wish i had visited the school but anyway, please discuss some of the major issues.